Black Man

04-30-2008, 04:09 PM

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

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Black Man

04-30-2008, 04:09 PM

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

Prolifical ENG

04-30-2008, 04:29 PM

it depends on its place value. there are 10 types of people in this world...the ones that understand binary and the ones that dont.

in another way, maybe zero dimensions is a dimension itself.

in another way, maybe zero dimensions is a dimension itself.

King Tron 1

04-30-2008, 04:32 PM

^^^ I understood the first part. Zero is exactly that, a place holder. zero can be either nothing or everything.

Zero=Infinite.

Zero=Infinite.

LORD NOSE

05-01-2008, 05:19 AM

How much is zero?

360

360

Supreme-NRT

05-01-2008, 05:25 AM

0 is the boundary between positive and negative numbers.

Tyler Durden

05-01-2008, 06:12 AM

^^^So is it also the boundary of 'what you have' to 'what you want'?^^^

Supreme-NRT

05-01-2008, 07:11 AM

^^ My argument was purely mathematical :)

Prince Rai

05-01-2008, 08:51 AM

^^ My argument was purely mathematical :)

^or at least a segment of mathematics.^

essentially zero needs context.

zero can mean nothing or everything.

if you have a pie coupled with your hunger and i eat it first, you are left with no pie, zero. no pie=zero pie=you have nothing.

on the other hand if your bank overdraft has been -(minus)$3000 forever, and then it is cleared to zero. you have everything, you can start again. no debt.

the possibilities with zero are potentially endless (already mentioned in an earlier post).

^or at least a segment of mathematics.^

essentially zero needs context.

zero can mean nothing or everything.

if you have a pie coupled with your hunger and i eat it first, you are left with no pie, zero. no pie=zero pie=you have nothing.

on the other hand if your bank overdraft has been -(minus)$3000 forever, and then it is cleared to zero. you have everything, you can start again. no debt.

the possibilities with zero are potentially endless (already mentioned in an earlier post).

Black Man

05-01-2008, 09:55 AM

on the other hand if your bank overdraft has been -(minus)$3000 forever, and then it is cleared to zero. you have everything, you can start again. no debt.

because your making a statement based on money, when the minus goes to zero dollars you're still left with zero dollars or no money. i don't see how you see you have everything in regards to the context of your statement.

because your making a statement based on money, when the minus goes to zero dollars you're still left with zero dollars or no money. i don't see how you see you have everything in regards to the context of your statement.

Prince Rai

05-01-2008, 09:59 AM

because your making a statement based on money, when the minus goes to zero dollars you're still left with zero dollars or no money. i don't see how you see you have everything in regards to the context of your statement.

you are forgetting the emotional state you get from getting out of debt to no debt.

in absence of having to owe money, you can plan ahead you finances with little less stress.

this slight comfort may mean everything, or just something. it may not mean nothing. Context!

you are forgetting the emotional state you get from getting out of debt to no debt.

in absence of having to owe money, you can plan ahead you finances with little less stress.

this slight comfort may mean everything, or just something. it may not mean nothing. Context!

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 10:04 AM

another way that 0 can be everything.

1 <<< just a single digit, right? But when I add a zero...

10<<< it's value increases. You can do this forever and ever without end, that's how Zero can be infinite.

1 <<< just a single digit, right? But when I add a zero...

10<<< it's value increases. You can do this forever and ever without end, that's how Zero can be infinite.

Black Man

05-01-2008, 10:07 AM

you are forgetting the emotional state you get from getting out of debt to no debt.

in absence of having to owe money, you can plan ahead you finances with little less stress.

this slight comfort may mean everything, or just something. it may not mean nothing. Context!

I see where you're coming from however I would say you're trying to fit squares into triangles.

I'm looking the question asked and your answer.....what I'm seeing from you is more so the application aspect verses the foundation first. Zero has value and no value and heres my understanding.....(insert your comments) without establishing the foundation.

I'm not saying your wrong.....maybe your a step or two ahead of the thread.

The flip side of what you said is, there's stress in future planning and for some people that stress is worst than being in debt stress.

in absence of having to owe money, you can plan ahead you finances with little less stress.

this slight comfort may mean everything, or just something. it may not mean nothing. Context!

I see where you're coming from however I would say you're trying to fit squares into triangles.

I'm looking the question asked and your answer.....what I'm seeing from you is more so the application aspect verses the foundation first. Zero has value and no value and heres my understanding.....(insert your comments) without establishing the foundation.

I'm not saying your wrong.....maybe your a step or two ahead of the thread.

The flip side of what you said is, there's stress in future planning and for some people that stress is worst than being in debt stress.

Black Man

05-01-2008, 10:12 AM

another way that 0 can be everything.

1 <<< just a single digit, right? But when I add a zero...

10<<< it's value increases. You can do this forever and ever without end, that's how Zero can be infinite.

That's not zero being infinite. That's zero being added to a number with a value and in the case of the number 10, zero becomes a place holder, and the continues addition to zero is what's giving it the power to be appear infiinite.

1+0=1

Multiplication is complex addition or a faster way to add. With multiplication the numbers always increase, not get smaller.

25*0=0

The zero in the addition problem has no quantative value while in the multiplication the zero is a infinite number with infinite quantative value.

It was said zero is equal to nothing and infinity (something like that).

1 <<< just a single digit, right? But when I add a zero...

10<<< it's value increases. You can do this forever and ever without end, that's how Zero can be infinite.

That's not zero being infinite. That's zero being added to a number with a value and in the case of the number 10, zero becomes a place holder, and the continues addition to zero is what's giving it the power to be appear infiinite.

1+0=1

Multiplication is complex addition or a faster way to add. With multiplication the numbers always increase, not get smaller.

25*0=0

The zero in the addition problem has no quantative value while in the multiplication the zero is a infinite number with infinite quantative value.

It was said zero is equal to nothing and infinity (something like that).

Prince Rai

05-01-2008, 10:20 AM

I get your point as well Black,

What i underpinned my first response with, was the need to use some form of context by which we can give value to the meaning of zero.

My examples were mere example to help us do this.

Foundations can be uncovered in many ways, one of them being, attributing the foundations with clear points. another one is to put the problem question into context with examples and slowly fish out common ground of the term in question.

"The flip side of what you said is, there's stress in future planning and for some people that stress is worst than being in debt stress."

in response to your quote, you are right. other stresses may outweigh the stresses of debt. the context i used was strictly financial in absence of any other factor influencing finances, such as home life etc.

the perspective you have on the financial future with no debt at all will be diffreent from the one who has a lot of debt.

peace homie

What i underpinned my first response with, was the need to use some form of context by which we can give value to the meaning of zero.

My examples were mere example to help us do this.

Foundations can be uncovered in many ways, one of them being, attributing the foundations with clear points. another one is to put the problem question into context with examples and slowly fish out common ground of the term in question.

"The flip side of what you said is, there's stress in future planning and for some people that stress is worst than being in debt stress."

in response to your quote, you are right. other stresses may outweigh the stresses of debt. the context i used was strictly financial in absence of any other factor influencing finances, such as home life etc.

the perspective you have on the financial future with no debt at all will be diffreent from the one who has a lot of debt.

peace homie

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 10:22 AM

My bad, forgot to add that my post was a referrence to binary, not the traditional arabic numerals. Sorry.

1 is 1 but when it's 10, it's actually 2, 100 is then 4, etc.

1 is 1 but when it's 10, it's actually 2, 100 is then 4, etc.

Black Man

05-01-2008, 11:03 AM

My bad, forgot to add that my post was a referrence to binary, not the traditional arabic numerals. Sorry.

1 is 1 but when it's 10, it's actually 2, 100 is then 4, etc.

we don't get our numbers from arabic numerals.

when binary numbers were first used, zero didn't exist.

1 is 1 but when it's 10, it's actually 2, 100 is then 4, etc.

we don't get our numbers from arabic numerals.

when binary numbers were first used, zero didn't exist.

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 11:08 AM

elaborate.

STYLE

05-01-2008, 01:59 PM

we get numbers from our fingers.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 02:10 PM

we get numbers from our fingers.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

In TTL (transistor-transistor logic) circuits they have this in place, between 0 volts and .8 volts is a low (a zero), between .8 voltts and 2 volts is undefined (circuit would treat it as either a low or a high), and anything between 2 volts and 5 volts is a valid high (a one). The 5 doesn't need to be 5 volts though.

Nice Post.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

In TTL (transistor-transistor logic) circuits they have this in place, between 0 volts and .8 volts is a low (a zero), between .8 voltts and 2 volts is undefined (circuit would treat it as either a low or a high), and anything between 2 volts and 5 volts is a valid high (a one). The 5 doesn't need to be 5 volts though.

Nice Post.

WARPATH

05-01-2008, 02:38 PM

we get numbers from our fingers.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

I would just like to add that:

While our fingers may be the foundation for base 10 and natural numbers-

Base 10 is a system based on 10 integers represented by 0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 6,7,8,9.

If you were programming to for some random number, say for a dice game, you would have to set your number + 1 to get a correct answer- because a computer would count 0 as the first number, and there isn't 0 on a standard die.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

I would just like to add that:

While our fingers may be the foundation for base 10 and natural numbers-

Base 10 is a system based on 10 integers represented by 0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 6,7,8,9.

If you were programming to for some random number, say for a dice game, you would have to set your number + 1 to get a correct answer- because a computer would count 0 as the first number, and there isn't 0 on a standard die.

WARPATH

05-01-2008, 02:40 PM

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

zero is the value of some number n

0 = n

zero is the value of some number n

0 = n

WARPATH

05-01-2008, 02:54 PM

^^^ I understood the first part. Zero is exactly that, a place holder. zero can be either nothing or everything.

Zero=Infinite.

360

This is kind of the philosophy I was trying to kick to one of my teachers:

If you start at one point on earth (a 3-d sphere) and walk in the same direction ( we'll call this the point 0 ), eventually you'll end right back up where you started.

Same goes for if your lost in the forest or desert, only 2-dimensional. If you try and walk in a straight line for a long time with nothing to guide you, eventually you'll come full circle right back to where you started.

--------------------------------------------

if you run off the screen in the original Mario Bros. you pop up on the other side. I wonder if you travel so far in outer space, you'll come up on the other side of space. :b

Zero=Infinite.

360

This is kind of the philosophy I was trying to kick to one of my teachers:

If you start at one point on earth (a 3-d sphere) and walk in the same direction ( we'll call this the point 0 ), eventually you'll end right back up where you started.

Same goes for if your lost in the forest or desert, only 2-dimensional. If you try and walk in a straight line for a long time with nothing to guide you, eventually you'll come full circle right back to where you started.

--------------------------------------------

if you run off the screen in the original Mario Bros. you pop up on the other side. I wonder if you travel so far in outer space, you'll come up on the other side of space. :b

6² Chambaz

05-01-2008, 03:00 PM

another way that 0 can be everything.

1 <<< just a single digit, right? But when I add a zero...

10<<< it's value increases. You can do this forever and ever without end, that's how Zero can be infinite.

but that ain't adding zero, thats multiplying by 10

1 <<< just a single digit, right? But when I add a zero...

10<<< it's value increases. You can do this forever and ever without end, that's how Zero can be infinite.

but that ain't adding zero, thats multiplying by 10

INF

05-01-2008, 03:04 PM

Same goes for if your lost in the forest or desert, only 2-dimensional. If you try and walk in a straight line for a long time with nothing to guide you, eventually you'll come full circle right back to where you started.

WTF??? I never knew that shit.

--------------------------------------------

if you run off the screen in the original Mario Bros. you pop up on the other side. I wonder if you travel so far in outer space, you'll come up on the other side of space. :b

That space idea is something else. What does mario have to do with zero though. Are talking about the programing?

I know youre talking about the first one.

WTF??? I never knew that shit.

--------------------------------------------

if you run off the screen in the original Mario Bros. you pop up on the other side. I wonder if you travel so far in outer space, you'll come up on the other side of space. :b

That space idea is something else. What does mario have to do with zero though. Are talking about the programing?

I know youre talking about the first one.

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 03:04 PM

My bad, forgot to add that my post was a referrence to binary, not the traditional arabic numerals. Sorry.

1 is 1 but when it's 10, it's actually 2, 100 is then 4, etc.

Sixer, add this then it will make sense.

1 is 1 but when it's 10, it's actually 2, 100 is then 4, etc.

Sixer, add this then it will make sense.

6² Chambaz

05-01-2008, 03:11 PM

Sixer, add this then it will make sense.

binary ain't maths, in binary, basically 0 is a holder, just a symbol

binary ain't maths, in binary, basically 0 is a holder, just a symbol

INF

05-01-2008, 03:11 PM

I thought that zero just didnt count. Yeah its 360 but when you add it up its nothing.

6² Chambaz

05-01-2008, 03:13 PM

I thought that zero just didnt count. Yeah its 360 but when you add it up its nothing.

it ain't 360. A zero is represented by a circle, which is an angle of 360 degrees

it ain't 360. A zero is represented by a circle, which is an angle of 360 degrees

WARPATH

05-01-2008, 03:13 PM

That space idea is something else. What does mario have to do with zero though. Are talking about the programing?

I know youre talking about the first one.

Eh...the mario thing was just thrown in their to help paint the space idea. I haven't programmed a side scroller yet to tell you if it has any real basis for my point.

------------------------------------

I couldn't tell if your being sarcastic with your WTF comment, but try this experiment:

Blind Fold yourself and in the far distance try and walk straight towards a marker. After you think you've reached your mark, take off the blind fold and see how close your got.

I know youre talking about the first one.

Eh...the mario thing was just thrown in their to help paint the space idea. I haven't programmed a side scroller yet to tell you if it has any real basis for my point.

------------------------------------

I couldn't tell if your being sarcastic with your WTF comment, but try this experiment:

Blind Fold yourself and in the far distance try and walk straight towards a marker. After you think you've reached your mark, take off the blind fold and see how close your got.

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 03:15 PM

binary ain't maths, in binary, basically 0 is a holder, just a symbol

yeah but 1 and 10 are not the same thing in binary.

yeah but 1 and 10 are not the same thing in binary.

6² Chambaz

05-01-2008, 03:16 PM

yeah but 1 and 10 are not the same thing in binary.

ok, but still, binary ain't about numbers. the same shit could have been done using A & B, or any 2 symbols

ok, but still, binary ain't about numbers. the same shit could have been done using A & B, or any 2 symbols

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 03:19 PM

ok, but still, binary ain't about numbers. the same shit could have been done using A & B, or any 2 symbols

How can binary not be about numbers? If so they why did they even bother with it if they could've just said any two symbols work. And any binary number can be translated into standad number. The only place that Zero is non-existent is in Hexidecimal numbers, which more of what you're trying to say.

How can binary not be about numbers? If so they why did they even bother with it if they could've just said any two symbols work. And any binary number can be translated into standad number. The only place that Zero is non-existent is in Hexidecimal numbers, which more of what you're trying to say.

INF

05-01-2008, 03:20 PM

Eh...the mario thing was just thrown in their to help paint the space idea. I haven't programmed a side scroller yet to tell you if it has any real basis for my point.

------------------------------------

I couldn't tell if your being sarcastic with your WTF comment, but try this experiment:

Blind Fold yourself and in the far distance try and walk straight towards a marker. After you think you've reached your mark, take off the blind fold and see how close your got.

Naw , I was being serious CS. That shit is amazing. When I can get a chance to try it , I will. I dont know about being blindfolded though.

------------------------------------

I couldn't tell if your being sarcastic with your WTF comment, but try this experiment:

Blind Fold yourself and in the far distance try and walk straight towards a marker. After you think you've reached your mark, take off the blind fold and see how close your got.

Naw , I was being serious CS. That shit is amazing. When I can get a chance to try it , I will. I dont know about being blindfolded though.

WARPATH

05-01-2008, 03:27 PM

but zero represents value in a simplified form:

if you take

x^n = 1

if

x = {set of all real numbers if and only if x does not equal 0}

n = 0

because

3^4

1 = --- = 3^(4-4) = 3^0

3^4

---------------------------------------------------------------

What if x = 0 ?

0^0 =1

or

0^0 = 0

?

-------------------------------------------

This is an example program of what I was talking about before.....

/*************************

Indian Yaht-zee

Version 1.1

*************************/

#include <iostream>

#include <cstdlib>

#include <ctime>

using namespace std;

int main ()

{

//Fist , seed the random number generator

srand( time( NULL ) );

int theSum = 0;

//Then, roll a standard six sided dice 10 times

for( int i = 0; i < 10; i++ )

{

int theDice = ( rand() % 6 ) + 1;

{

theSum = theSum + theDice;

}

cout << " I rolled the dice and booyakasha " << theDice

<< endl;

}

cout << "The sum of the rolls are " << theSum << endl;

//Finished

return 0;

}

if you take

x^n = 1

if

x = {set of all real numbers if and only if x does not equal 0}

n = 0

because

3^4

1 = --- = 3^(4-4) = 3^0

3^4

---------------------------------------------------------------

What if x = 0 ?

0^0 =1

or

0^0 = 0

?

-------------------------------------------

This is an example program of what I was talking about before.....

/*************************

Indian Yaht-zee

Version 1.1

*************************/

#include <iostream>

#include <cstdlib>

#include <ctime>

using namespace std;

int main ()

{

//Fist , seed the random number generator

srand( time( NULL ) );

int theSum = 0;

//Then, roll a standard six sided dice 10 times

for( int i = 0; i < 10; i++ )

{

int theDice = ( rand() % 6 ) + 1;

{

theSum = theSum + theDice;

}

cout << " I rolled the dice and booyakasha " << theDice

<< endl;

}

cout << "The sum of the rolls are " << theSum << endl;

//Finished

return 0;

}

Black Man

05-01-2008, 04:12 PM

we get numbers from our fingers.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

If this was true then the first counting system would be based on ten, however this is not the case.

The earliest accounts of people counting began with a word for "one" and a word for "many" it was either one or many. Over time, these languages evolved to distinguish between one, two, three, many but didn't have terms for higher numbers. This is still seen with the Siriona Indians of Bolivia and the Yanoama people of Brazil.

As time went on counting systems changed.

Before we had a number system based on ten, there were systems five-based or quinary counting system.

In the Germanic protolanguages that english comes from, the people used a base-ten counting system.

Another example of non-ten-based counting systems comes from the Babylonian system which is based on the number 60.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

Zero is not limited to mathematics. With the introduction of zero, it was not only used in mathematics but also philophy 'religion' and science. This ofcourse is the development of the number zero.

When we have a number line, nowhere on that number line exist nothing.

Zero as a place holder.....1,000 simply means 1,000 ones. The zero as a place holder actually represents a numerical value depending on it's place. In the case of the number 10, the number zero represent 9, so the number 10 is really nine plus one. Zero being the nine ones, and the number one being the additional unit added on giving us the number 10.

Zero as 360 is correct and originally was called by different names, the most common being cipher or as it is in the greek cifre.

As I have shown in another post, zero is both nothing as well as infinite.

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

Add a number to itself and it changes. One and one is not one, its two. Two and two is four, but zero and zero is zero. Hmmmm.......seems like zero refuses to get bigger and make other numbers bigger.

Seems like zero has no substance, yet this number seems to undermine simple multiplication and division. With both principles, as long as zero is in the equation the answer will be zero. Is that a void or is that infinite?

The Babylonian system had zero as just a place holder, it was not truly a number on its own, it had no value by it self. It only took its meaning from the digits to its left. In India, all this changed!

In India zero became more than a placeholder, it became a number. This happened around the 5th century A.D. Let me make a note here and say that our numbers evolved from the symbols that the Indians used and not the Arabic ones.

Back to zero's value.

In time, the Indians realized that 1 divided by zero was infinite. "This fraction of which the denominator is a cipher (zero) is termed an infinite quantity," writes Bhaskara, 12th century Indian mathematician, who tells of what happens when you add a number to one divided by zero. "There is no alteration, though many be inserted or extracted; as no change takes place in the infinite and imutable God."

As I've stated before, zero was not limited to mathematics.

More to come in the future....maybe.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset.

If this was true then the first counting system would be based on ten, however this is not the case.

The earliest accounts of people counting began with a word for "one" and a word for "many" it was either one or many. Over time, these languages evolved to distinguish between one, two, three, many but didn't have terms for higher numbers. This is still seen with the Siriona Indians of Bolivia and the Yanoama people of Brazil.

As time went on counting systems changed.

Before we had a number system based on ten, there were systems five-based or quinary counting system.

In the Germanic protolanguages that english comes from, the people used a base-ten counting system.

Another example of non-ten-based counting systems comes from the Babylonian system which is based on the number 60.

if we had 12 fingers we would count like

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,µ,ç,10 µ=10 ç=11 10=12

now to address zero....

zero is the mathematical representation of nothing. when 0 is used as a placeholder, its value is still nothing. 1,000 means One thousand zero hundreds zero tens zero ones.

zero is not 360, 360degrees is a circle which zero can be symbol of. but 3x0≠1080

Zero is not limited to mathematics. With the introduction of zero, it was not only used in mathematics but also philophy 'religion' and science. This ofcourse is the development of the number zero.

When we have a number line, nowhere on that number line exist nothing.

Zero as a place holder.....1,000 simply means 1,000 ones. The zero as a place holder actually represents a numerical value depending on it's place. In the case of the number 10, the number zero represent 9, so the number 10 is really nine plus one. Zero being the nine ones, and the number one being the additional unit added on giving us the number 10.

Zero as 360 is correct and originally was called by different names, the most common being cipher or as it is in the greek cifre.

As I have shown in another post, zero is both nothing as well as infinite.

in binary, the actual charge in a digital signal is not zero there is a small amount of charge that the semi conductor gate recognizes as zero and makes the approriate action (open,close) also in binary 1 and 0 have no numerical value. they are both placeholders.

Add a number to itself and it changes. One and one is not one, its two. Two and two is four, but zero and zero is zero. Hmmmm.......seems like zero refuses to get bigger and make other numbers bigger.

Seems like zero has no substance, yet this number seems to undermine simple multiplication and division. With both principles, as long as zero is in the equation the answer will be zero. Is that a void or is that infinite?

The Babylonian system had zero as just a place holder, it was not truly a number on its own, it had no value by it self. It only took its meaning from the digits to its left. In India, all this changed!

In India zero became more than a placeholder, it became a number. This happened around the 5th century A.D. Let me make a note here and say that our numbers evolved from the symbols that the Indians used and not the Arabic ones.

Back to zero's value.

In time, the Indians realized that 1 divided by zero was infinite. "This fraction of which the denominator is a cipher (zero) is termed an infinite quantity," writes Bhaskara, 12th century Indian mathematician, who tells of what happens when you add a number to one divided by zero. "There is no alteration, though many be inserted or extracted; as no change takes place in the infinite and imutable God."

As I've stated before, zero was not limited to mathematics.

More to come in the future....maybe.

WARPATH

05-01-2008, 04:37 PM

The earliest accounts of people counting began with a word for "one" and a word for "many" it was either one or many. Over time, these languages evolved to distinguish between one, two, three, many but didn't have terms for higher numbers. This is still seen with the Siriona Indians of Bolivia and the Yanoama people of Brazil.

I'm calling this irrelevant because, people needed ways to communicate plurally.

Example: you need some help lifting something heavy. You only need one person, so you call for one instead of many. This does not prove that number systems evolved from gorillas grunting in the mist. There's a 10 base number system in my culture that transcends anything you try and throw out, and is even more proof that number systems have been around as long before Arabs and Egyptians started scribbling in the sand. The Mayans accurate calender is anther example of prowess of ancient scholars.

The earliest I can remember counting was when I was 3 or 4 years old.

A more fitting example of how number systems started in my opinion.

I'm calling this irrelevant because, people needed ways to communicate plurally.

Example: you need some help lifting something heavy. You only need one person, so you call for one instead of many. This does not prove that number systems evolved from gorillas grunting in the mist. There's a 10 base number system in my culture that transcends anything you try and throw out, and is even more proof that number systems have been around as long before Arabs and Egyptians started scribbling in the sand. The Mayans accurate calender is anther example of prowess of ancient scholars.

The earliest I can remember counting was when I was 3 or 4 years old.

A more fitting example of how number systems started in my opinion.

Black Man

05-01-2008, 06:16 PM

I'm calling this irrelevant because, people needed ways to communicate plurally.

Example: you need some help lifting something heavy. You only need one person, so you call for one instead of many. This does not prove that number systems evolved from gorillas grunting in the mist. There's a 10 base number system in my culture that transcends anything you try and throw out, and is even more proof that number systems have been around as long before Arabs and Egyptians started scribbling in the sand. The Mayans accurate calender is anther example of prowess of ancient scholars.

The earliest I can remember counting was when I was 3 or 4 years old.

A more fitting example of how number systems started in my opinion.

I'm calling this irrelevant because it really is.

And the Mayans are a younger people than the egyptians and the egyptians calander being more accurate also earlier than that of they mayan. Also note that when you see the face with the tongue sticking out in the center of their calancder, that's a sign left behind by the Twa people who are original people or black people.

Example: you need some help lifting something heavy. You only need one person, so you call for one instead of many. This does not prove that number systems evolved from gorillas grunting in the mist. There's a 10 base number system in my culture that transcends anything you try and throw out, and is even more proof that number systems have been around as long before Arabs and Egyptians started scribbling in the sand. The Mayans accurate calender is anther example of prowess of ancient scholars.

The earliest I can remember counting was when I was 3 or 4 years old.

A more fitting example of how number systems started in my opinion.

I'm calling this irrelevant because it really is.

And the Mayans are a younger people than the egyptians and the egyptians calander being more accurate also earlier than that of they mayan. Also note that when you see the face with the tongue sticking out in the center of their calancder, that's a sign left behind by the Twa people who are original people or black people.

King Tron 1

05-01-2008, 06:29 PM

Black Man, you are taking away all value to this thread by shooting everyone's statements down. Why even start a thread, if you're not gonna listen to what others got to say on the subject?

STYLE

05-01-2008, 09:14 PM

okay you mentioned a system based on 5.

five fingers

as far as the system based on 60....well nobody uses it now so i assume it was not efficient.

my post was in reference to the nuber system that we and the majority of planet earth uses. which is based upon the fact we have 10 fingers.

if we are discussing something different then you should be specific about that.

five fingers

as far as the system based on 60....well nobody uses it now so i assume it was not efficient.

my post was in reference to the nuber system that we and the majority of planet earth uses. which is based upon the fact we have 10 fingers.

if we are discussing something different then you should be specific about that.

maestro wooz

05-02-2008, 01:51 AM

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

the hole on your dark heart

it could be the unknown

the hole on your dark heart

it could be the unknown

LORD NOSE

05-02-2008, 05:57 AM

Lmao @ all these....dummy pants..... - the caucasian sure loves to complicate things

zero shows you how many times a number comes back around again

a full cipher

a 360

1 thru 9

10 shows us that we came back around to 1 and can add another cipher

zero shows you how many times a number comes back around again

a full cipher

a 360

1 thru 9

10 shows us that we came back around to 1 and can add another cipher

TSA

05-02-2008, 09:03 AM

no it doesn't, you learned your gimmick from wutang cds. ^secondary.

anyways, idk binary code to well so all i can do is watch. I know that in my culture there's no 0 and the numbers are on a 20 system as opposed to a 10 like here in america

i guess they're really no need for a 0. If your counting why would you count "nothing".

it's like if someone asks "what shade of red is that wall"

and the wall is white

you can't make white a shade of read

just like you can make nothing a value.

but it's working for the ppl that use it so power to them.

idk if that's off subject or not cause again, i don't know binary code, but yeah, that's my thoughts on 0.

anyways, idk binary code to well so all i can do is watch. I know that in my culture there's no 0 and the numbers are on a 20 system as opposed to a 10 like here in america

i guess they're really no need for a 0. If your counting why would you count "nothing".

it's like if someone asks "what shade of red is that wall"

and the wall is white

you can't make white a shade of read

just like you can make nothing a value.

but it's working for the ppl that use it so power to them.

idk if that's off subject or not cause again, i don't know binary code, but yeah, that's my thoughts on 0.

Black Man

05-02-2008, 10:28 AM

Black Man, you are taking away all value to this thread by shooting everyone's statements down. Why even start a thread, if you're not gonna listen to what others got to say on the subject?

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

This is the foundation of the thread, so please keep that in mind.

The 2nd post in this thread did not answer the question that started the thread. Instead, that person went into binary numbers, and the different types of people. Didn't respond to that, even though the question wasn't answered.

You were the first to answer the question, followed by Sunny. M. Death added on by stating a "value" based on the number line. Didn't respond to him either.

A few more people added on either with question or statement.

The next time I replied was to Prince Rai. I did not shoot Prince Rai's statement down, I dug deeper into it. The results were a mutual understanding. My last reply to Prince included, "I'm not saying your wrong.....maybe your a step or two ahead of the thread."

In between that you responded to the actual question. To your example I did not shoot it down, I simply went in more depth with your concept as I gave my example on how I would explain the infinite nature of zero in which you stated.

After Prince Rai made it known we're seeing eye to eye atleast in principle you responded by speaking on binary numbers. Again, I didn't shoot your idea down, I added on. All I said was where we don't get our numbers from and when binary numbers were first used zero didn't exist. Again, nothing was shot down. You said, "elaborate."

Next S.Master added on. He did answer the question that started the thread and he added on with additional information. I responded to S.Mas. after 16 replies. If you want to say I shot his idea down, then so be it. I don't see it as shooting down, I responded with different information than him. And I gave examples. All this was done respectfully and without just saying, nope wrong, dan cooley this thread.

After responding to him, my next reply was to CS, then you claim I shoot everybody's idea down. Hmmmm.....if thats what you perceive then it is what it is.

As far as your question, "Why even start a thread, if you're not gonna listen to what others got to say on the subject?"

How many replies were actually about the subject? Here's the original question again:

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

This is the foundation of the thread, so please keep that in mind.

The 2nd post in this thread did not answer the question that started the thread. Instead, that person went into binary numbers, and the different types of people. Didn't respond to that, even though the question wasn't answered.

You were the first to answer the question, followed by Sunny. M. Death added on by stating a "value" based on the number line. Didn't respond to him either.

A few more people added on either with question or statement.

The next time I replied was to Prince Rai. I did not shoot Prince Rai's statement down, I dug deeper into it. The results were a mutual understanding. My last reply to Prince included, "I'm not saying your wrong.....maybe your a step or two ahead of the thread."

In between that you responded to the actual question. To your example I did not shoot it down, I simply went in more depth with your concept as I gave my example on how I would explain the infinite nature of zero in which you stated.

After Prince Rai made it known we're seeing eye to eye atleast in principle you responded by speaking on binary numbers. Again, I didn't shoot your idea down, I added on. All I said was where we don't get our numbers from and when binary numbers were first used zero didn't exist. Again, nothing was shot down. You said, "elaborate."

Next S.Master added on. He did answer the question that started the thread and he added on with additional information. I responded to S.Mas. after 16 replies. If you want to say I shot his idea down, then so be it. I don't see it as shooting down, I responded with different information than him. And I gave examples. All this was done respectfully and without just saying, nope wrong, dan cooley this thread.

After responding to him, my next reply was to CS, then you claim I shoot everybody's idea down. Hmmmm.....if thats what you perceive then it is what it is.

As far as your question, "Why even start a thread, if you're not gonna listen to what others got to say on the subject?"

How many replies were actually about the subject? Here's the original question again:

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

Black Man

05-02-2008, 10:34 AM

okay you mentioned a system based on 5.

five fingers

as far as the system based on 60....well nobody uses it now so i assume it was not efficient.

my post was in reference to the nuber system that we and the majority of planet earth uses. which is based upon the fact we have 10 fingers.

if we are discussing something different then you should be specific about that.

Whether or not is was efficient, whether it's still being used is not the point. You made the statement that we get numbers from our fingers.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset. and that isn't true. We had number systems based on everything except the number 10 for a very long time.

Your post being in reference to a number system isn't what the thread is about. I asked a question about zero, not number systems. I don't know how you missed that? I said absolutely nothing about number systems in the initial post.

I was specific, you must've not been paying attention. Go back to the first post and you'll see how specific I was.

Note: The counting system that is base 60 was used by the pyramid builders to make their measurements. Whether efficient or not, it was accurate. With a base 60 counting system they were able to discover pi (that 3.14....number)

five fingers

as far as the system based on 60....well nobody uses it now so i assume it was not efficient.

my post was in reference to the nuber system that we and the majority of planet earth uses. which is based upon the fact we have 10 fingers.

if we are discussing something different then you should be specific about that.

Whether or not is was efficient, whether it's still being used is not the point. You made the statement that we get numbers from our fingers.

this is the foundation of base-10 mathematics

we have 10 digits(fingers) so we count to ten then reset. and that isn't true. We had number systems based on everything except the number 10 for a very long time.

Your post being in reference to a number system isn't what the thread is about. I asked a question about zero, not number systems. I don't know how you missed that? I said absolutely nothing about number systems in the initial post.

I was specific, you must've not been paying attention. Go back to the first post and you'll see how specific I was.

Note: The counting system that is base 60 was used by the pyramid builders to make their measurements. Whether efficient or not, it was accurate. With a base 60 counting system they were able to discover pi (that 3.14....number)

Prolifical ENG

05-02-2008, 10:42 AM

The 2nd post in this thread did not answer the question that started the thread. Instead, that person went into binary numbers, and the different types of people. Didn't respond to that, even though the question wasn't answered.

sure I did. You cant always expect the answer you're looking for. Different perspectives is important.

Why isnt binary (moreover base-2) relevant when giving an example when '0' for place value can be different? The base 2 was only a premise.

You cant always expect certain answers when you ask that type of question. This forum is about perspective and interpretation.

Was this question supposed to be answered? Or discussed?

sure I did. You cant always expect the answer you're looking for. Different perspectives is important.

Why isnt binary (moreover base-2) relevant when giving an example when '0' for place value can be different? The base 2 was only a premise.

You cant always expect certain answers when you ask that type of question. This forum is about perspective and interpretation.

Was this question supposed to be answered? Or discussed?

King Tron 1

05-02-2008, 10:52 AM

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

This is the foundation of the thread, so please keep that in mind.

The 2nd post in this thread did not answer the question that started the thread. Instead, that person went into binary numbers, and the different types of people. Didn't respond to that, even though the question wasn't answered.

You were the first to answer the question, followed by Sunny. M. Death added on by stating a "value" based on the number line. Didn't respond to him either.

A few more people added on either with question or statement.

The next time I replied was to Prince Rai. I did not shoot Prince Rai's statement down, I dug deeper into it. The results were a mutual understanding. My last reply to Prince included, "I'm not saying your wrong.....maybe your a step or two ahead of the thread."

In between that you responded to the actual question. To your example I did not shoot it down, I simply went in more depth with your concept as I gave my example on how I would explain the infinite nature of zero in which you stated.

After Prince Rai made it known we're seeing eye to eye atleast in principle you responded by speaking on binary numbers. Again, I didn't shoot your idea down, I added on. All I said was where we don't get our numbers from and when binary numbers were first used zero didn't exist. Again, nothing was shot down. You said, "elaborate."

Next S.Master added on. He did answer the question that started the thread and he added on with additional information. I responded to S.Mas. after 16 replies. If you want to say I shot his idea down, then so be it. I don't see it as shooting down, I responded with different information than him. And I gave examples. All this was done respectfully and without just saying, nope wrong, dan cooley this thread.

After responding to him, my next reply was to CS, then you claim I shoot everybody's idea down. Hmmmm.....if thats what you perceive then it is what it is.

As far as your question, "Why even start a thread, if you're not gonna listen to what others got to say on the subject?"

How many replies were actually about the subject? Here's the original question again:

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

Okay, so you were paying attention, Thank you for clearing all this up. Although my choice of words were taken a bit outta context, I didn't mean to say that you were saying "Wrong!!, Cooley", This is a good question, and doesn't mean that only 1 answer is the most correct answer. Maybe the answer to the question is 0...

This is the foundation of the thread, so please keep that in mind.

The 2nd post in this thread did not answer the question that started the thread. Instead, that person went into binary numbers, and the different types of people. Didn't respond to that, even though the question wasn't answered.

You were the first to answer the question, followed by Sunny. M. Death added on by stating a "value" based on the number line. Didn't respond to him either.

A few more people added on either with question or statement.

The next time I replied was to Prince Rai. I did not shoot Prince Rai's statement down, I dug deeper into it. The results were a mutual understanding. My last reply to Prince included, "I'm not saying your wrong.....maybe your a step or two ahead of the thread."

In between that you responded to the actual question. To your example I did not shoot it down, I simply went in more depth with your concept as I gave my example on how I would explain the infinite nature of zero in which you stated.

After Prince Rai made it known we're seeing eye to eye atleast in principle you responded by speaking on binary numbers. Again, I didn't shoot your idea down, I added on. All I said was where we don't get our numbers from and when binary numbers were first used zero didn't exist. Again, nothing was shot down. You said, "elaborate."

Next S.Master added on. He did answer the question that started the thread and he added on with additional information. I responded to S.Mas. after 16 replies. If you want to say I shot his idea down, then so be it. I don't see it as shooting down, I responded with different information than him. And I gave examples. All this was done respectfully and without just saying, nope wrong, dan cooley this thread.

After responding to him, my next reply was to CS, then you claim I shoot everybody's idea down. Hmmmm.....if thats what you perceive then it is what it is.

As far as your question, "Why even start a thread, if you're not gonna listen to what others got to say on the subject?"

How many replies were actually about the subject? Here's the original question again:

What is the value (quantity) of zero? How much is zero?

Okay, so you were paying attention, Thank you for clearing all this up. Although my choice of words were taken a bit outta context, I didn't mean to say that you were saying "Wrong!!, Cooley", This is a good question, and doesn't mean that only 1 answer is the most correct answer. Maybe the answer to the question is 0...

Black Man

05-02-2008, 12:41 PM

Okay, so you were paying attention, Thank you for clearing all this up. Although my choice of words were taken a bit outta context, I didn't mean to say that you were saying "Wrong!!, Cooley", This is a good question, and doesn't mean that only 1 answer is the most correct answer. Maybe the answer to the question is 0...

How many answers did you give?

How many answers did I give? I know I agreed with you saying zero = infinity. I also said zero = nothing/void.

Theres no ONE right answer but there are wrong answers.

I started this thread because of the history and nature of zero. If you studied the history of zero you would see the many dimensions so to say of this number.

Some people embrased zero while other people feared it....literally. Zero not only solved problems but it created new one.

Zero was used to prove the existence of God.

It was the cause of various mathematics sciences. Without zero they wouldn't exist.

How many answers did you give?

How many answers did I give? I know I agreed with you saying zero = infinity. I also said zero = nothing/void.

Theres no ONE right answer but there are wrong answers.

I started this thread because of the history and nature of zero. If you studied the history of zero you would see the many dimensions so to say of this number.

Some people embrased zero while other people feared it....literally. Zero not only solved problems but it created new one.

Zero was used to prove the existence of God.

It was the cause of various mathematics sciences. Without zero they wouldn't exist.

Black Man

05-02-2008, 12:51 PM

sure I did. You cant always expect the answer you're looking for. Different perspectives is important.

Why isnt binary (moreover base-2) relevant when giving an example when '0' for place value can be different? The base 2 was only a premise.

You cant always expect certain answers when you ask that type of question. This forum is about perspective and interpretation.

Was this question supposed to be answered? Or discussed?

I don't expect any particular answer nor was I "looking" for an answer. I know the answer to my question already.

If you feel like you answered the question then so be it. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

I understand having different perspective, as I showed in responding to Prince Rai. P. Rai had his perspective and I said something about it but it at the end understanding was understood.

Base 2 is not the premise, the premise is zero. What is the quantity (value) of zero. Not what is the quantity or value of zero within a base 2 binary system.

Did I say that binary 2 isn't relevent?

This forum is about perspective and interpretation, then you may want to change the name from know the ledge which comes from the 5% expressing their understanding of knowledge, to something which reflects the ideas and intentions of this forum.

Questions are meant to be answered, and the answers (whether right or wrong) provides a field of operation...meaning after an answer is given a discussion can occur.

Why isnt binary (moreover base-2) relevant when giving an example when '0' for place value can be different? The base 2 was only a premise.

You cant always expect certain answers when you ask that type of question. This forum is about perspective and interpretation.

Was this question supposed to be answered? Or discussed?

I don't expect any particular answer nor was I "looking" for an answer. I know the answer to my question already.

If you feel like you answered the question then so be it. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

I understand having different perspective, as I showed in responding to Prince Rai. P. Rai had his perspective and I said something about it but it at the end understanding was understood.

Base 2 is not the premise, the premise is zero. What is the quantity (value) of zero. Not what is the quantity or value of zero within a base 2 binary system.

Did I say that binary 2 isn't relevent?

This forum is about perspective and interpretation, then you may want to change the name from know the ledge which comes from the 5% expressing their understanding of knowledge, to something which reflects the ideas and intentions of this forum.

Questions are meant to be answered, and the answers (whether right or wrong) provides a field of operation...meaning after an answer is given a discussion can occur.

King Tron 1

05-02-2008, 12:51 PM

Well all the answers I've given were from what knowledge that zero has been brought to me. I'm not here to argue any point, nor do I intend to.

Black Man

05-02-2008, 12:54 PM

Well all the answers I've given were from what knowledge that zero has been brought to me. I'm not here to argue any point, nor do I intend to.

I agreed to your answer.

Are you not the one who said zero=infinity?

I agreed to your answer.

Are you not the one who said zero=infinity?

King Tron 1

05-02-2008, 01:06 PM

Yes I was, but I'm not disagreeing. I didn't mean to say that I was stubbornly gonna stick with my answers and no one's gonna convince me to change opinions.

Black Man

05-02-2008, 02:39 PM

Yes I was, but I'm not disagreeing. I didn't mean to say that I was stubbornly gonna stick with my answers and no one's gonna convince me to change opinions.

My answer is your answer basically.

And would you change your opinion in the face of knowledge?

My answer is your answer basically.

And would you change your opinion in the face of knowledge?

King Tron 1

05-02-2008, 02:47 PM

Yes, and No. I will just take the new information and absorb it, that doesn't mean that everything prior to is gonna get washed outta my mind.

Black Man

05-02-2008, 02:53 PM

Yes, and No. I will just take the new information and absorb it, that doesn't mean that everything prior to is gonna get washed outta my mind.

Just wanted to know where you stand.

Just wanted to know where you stand.

King Tron 1

05-02-2008, 03:02 PM

So the discussion continues, as it should.

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