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Fatal Guillotine
05-11-2008, 01:42 PM
anyone here knows about taoism or studies it?

Death the Kid
05-11-2008, 01:51 PM
I heard its some sort of paganism, belief in nature and not in a god or some other medium of that sort. Not sure though, have to check it out.

VZA
05-11-2008, 01:53 PM
You two should have your own exclusive section on this board for shit that nobody cares about. Or just exchange email addresses?



I joke.

Death the Kid
05-11-2008, 02:05 PM
You two should have your own exclusive section on this board for shit that nobody cares about. Or just exchange email addresses?



I joke.

"Knowledge. Post here about Politics, current world affairs and such. |If you dont understand whats being said, or have nothing decent to contribute, stay out|." Can you read kiddo ?

Prolifical ENG
05-11-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't know that much of it. However most eastern things are more internal rather than external. I think the last thread Blackwisdom made in this forum was a good contrasting thread about east and west.

The Way is through all the writings so you do need to know at least the fundamentals to understand.

AcidPhosphate69
05-11-2008, 06:11 PM
I read the Tao Te Ching. It's good shit. One verse I really liked was talking how the sage is not sick because he's sick of sickness. It's basicly saying knowing what the problem is is a positive step in the right direction of dealing with a problem.

I'm not like, studied up on that shit though.

LORD NOSE
05-11-2008, 06:30 PM
The Tao is the Truth

Fatal Guillotine
05-11-2008, 07:05 PM
Sunny what do you know about taoism? can you recommend any books? I found this website called http://www.sacred-texts.com. There is a book called Tao te Ching by Lao-tzu. It is supose to explain some aspects of it.

LORD NOSE
05-11-2008, 07:18 PM
Taoism 365 is great


Taoism is purely common sense

its for the wide awake man to put into practice

Fatal Guillotine
05-11-2008, 07:20 PM
i'll check that out. i been interested in it every since i learn that Rza practices it. You want share what you know my man?

LORD NOSE
05-11-2008, 07:29 PM
there are a few threads here on it - i'll see what i can find and continue from where we left off

Tao is common sense and balance
its viewing everything from all sides and flowing your flow and using what you know to get where you need to get
its putting things where they belong and keeping order
Mental Martial Arts

Fatal Guillotine
05-11-2008, 07:33 PM
sounds interesting as a hell. you said the book is called taoism 365? Correct?

LORD NOSE
05-11-2008, 07:38 PM
sounds interesting as a hell. you said the book is called taoism 365? Correct?


Everyday Tao: Living with Balance and Harmony


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6966/post100321205836255aq3.jpg

Fatal Guillotine
05-11-2008, 08:08 PM
thanks sunny. respect god

Fatal Guillotine
07-26-2008, 09:51 AM
Ayo sunny i was wondering if you could explain it more....and maybe share your insight. Also i was wonder if anyone has heard of I-Kuan Tao or of its principles?

I-Kuan Tao is the belief in the Tao, the eternal source. It embodies the truths inherited from the teachings of Lao Tzu, Confucius, and the Buddha which are the same truths taught by some other spiritual and philosophical traditions. From Lao Tzu comes the reliance on the harmony of people and nature. From Confucius comes the appreciation of good deeds and behaviors. And from Buddha comes the general concern for the masses and delivering all from suffering.

The modern movement of I-Kuan Tao was established by Lu Zhong Yi, the 17th Patriarch of the later stage of the East Tao Orthodoxy. In 1930, his disciples Zhang Guang Bi and Sun Hui Ming became the 18th Patriarchs to carry on the Tao Orthodoxy.

In order to preach the great Tao and reveal enlightenment to all humanity, the 18th Patriarchs established and taught the Principles of the Tao as follows:


道之宗旨
The Principles of the Tao

1
敬天地
To venerate Heaven and Earth

2
禮神明
To revere the divine beings

3
愛國忠事
To be patriotic and responsible

4
敦品崇禮
To be virtuous and courteous

5
孝父母
To honor the parents

6
重師尊
To value the teachers

7
信朋友
To keep faith with friends

8
和鄉鄰
To live harmoniously with neighbors

9
改惡向善
To discard the bad and seek the good

10
講明五倫八德
To clarify the Five Relationships and the Eight Virtues

11
闡發五教聖人之奧旨
To spread the teachings of the Five Religions

12
恪遵四維綱常之古禮
To follow the ancient practice of the Four Ethics, the Mainstays, and the Constant Virtues

13
洗心滌慮
To cleanse the mind and purify the spirit

14
借假修真
To utilize the illusory world in cultivating the truth

15
恢復本性之自然
To restore the nature of the self

16
啟發良知良能之至善
To develop the perfection of conscience

17
己立立人
To establish oneself and help others in establishment

18
己達達人
To achieve goals and help others in achievement

19
挽世界為清平
To bring the world into peace

20
化人心為良善
To change hearts into goodness

21
冀世界為大同
To transform the world into Great Unity

SID
07-26-2008, 07:09 PM
I love taoism, to me its more of a school of thought/philosophy then religion, its concepts are logical, and there truest to the ultimate perception/plane of reality.

The view that human and nature are 1 an inseperable entity depending on each other to mantain the perfect balance of existence.

The view of ying and yang, the two opposing forces of nature and energy, negative-positive, light-dark and good-bad, and that these forces must be utilized evenly in order to keep balance in our souls and on earth.

Thew that chi/qi is the energy/lifeforce binds all humans and can be utilized to achieve human potential in all forms mental, physical and spiritual

Fatal Guillotine
07-27-2008, 02:53 PM
^^^^
i like how you phrase that.

i've been interested in taoism for a minute now. Sunny recommended a book by the name of Everyday Tao. I was wondering if you or anyone for that matter could recommend more books i have read tao te ching but the book that i read i believe is sort of the translator of the book own interpretation.

Fatal Guillotine
11-09-2010, 02:31 PM
anyone interested in the understanding of the i ching get the book:

its superb

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519cfYOrvwL._.jpg

Fatal Guillotine
11-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Where does the Yin Yang Symbol come from?

http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm

Dokuro
11-09-2010, 05:28 PM
anyone here knows about taoism or studies it?

ohh me me me

i'm one part Shintoist, one part taoist, one part shaminist, and one part Luciferic pagan

its about respecting the flow of nature and living with it not against it
big ups to the homie Zhu Yin

Fatal Guillotine
11-09-2010, 05:30 PM
care to contribute???

Fatal Guillotine
11-09-2010, 05:39 PM
ohh me me me

i'm one part Shintoist, one part taoist, one part shaminist, and one part Luciferic pagan

its about respecting the flow of nature and living with it not against it
big ups to the homie Zhu Yin







Taoism consists of philosophy, religion, and practice. The Tao is the mysterious force that guides all things, it is what came before heaven and earth, and from it comes all of creation through the mixing of yin and yang or the male and female energies. It cannot be understood by the mind, but it can be experienced and known intuitively. Everything emerges from the Tao, and eventually everything returns to it - we are the waves and it is the ocean.

The philosophical side of Taoism is about understanding different ways in which we can live a more harmonious life, by flowing with life rather than against it. The Tao Te Ching emphasizes virtues such as humility, flexibility, softness, non competitiveness, limiting one's desires, and becoming like a child again -- which leads a person to living a content and happy life.

The practical side of Taoism includes things such as Tai Chi, Chi Kung, and Taoist Yoga. These are ways of getting in touch with the life force energy, Chi, which is present in each and every thing. Taoists believe that sickness is caused by blocked chi in the body, and that the optimal condition is to have our chi flowing through our body unobstructed, and the aim of Chi Kung is to guide and circulate this Chi through the body so the overall functioning of one's system is strengthened and enhanced. Tai Chi is considered a soft martial art applied with the internal power of Chi, which applies the laws of yin and yang in its actions. Taoist Yoga is concerned with attaining spiritual immortality/enlightenment and longevity.

I probably wouldn't go into the religious side of it, but I might mention the two common schools - Highest Clarity which was popular in the Tang dynasty who's emphasis was on personal cultivation and spiritual development, and the school of Complete Perfection which is a monastic school that synchronizes teachings of Daoist cultivation of the body, Buddhist meditation, and Confucist ethics, and practices Inner Alchemy to attain spiritual immortality.


Although that would all have to be said over a tea or coffee :). In short, Taoism is about finding harmony and balance in one's life, and cultivating the qualities that help a person attain this balance.

Dokuro
11-09-2010, 05:42 PM
Taoism consists of philosophy, religion, and practice. The Tao is the mysterious force that guides all things, it is what came before heaven and earth, and from it comes all of creation through the mixing of yin and yang or the male and female energies. It cannot be understood by the mind, but it can be experienced and known intuitively. Everything emerges from the Tao, and eventually everything returns to it - we are the waves and it is the ocean.

The philosophical side of Taoism is about understanding different ways in which we can live a more harmonious life, by flowing with life rather than against it. The Tao Te Ching emphasizes virtues such as humility, flexibility, softness, non competitiveness, limiting one's desires, and becoming like a child again -- which leads a person to living a content and happy life.

The practical side of Taoism includes things such as Tai Chi, Chi Kung, and Taoist Yoga. These are ways of getting in touch with the life force energy, Chi, which is present in each and every thing. Taoists believe that sickness is caused by blocked chi in the body, and that the optimal condition is to have our chi flowing through our body unobstructed, and the aim of Chi Kung is to guide and circulate this Chi through the body so the overall functioning of one's system is strengthened and enhanced. Tai Chi is considered a soft martial art applied with the internal power of Chi, which applies the laws of yin and yang in its actions. Taoist Yoga is concerned with attaining spiritual immortality/enlightenment and longevity.

I probably wouldn't go into the religious side of it, but I might mention the two common schools - Highest Clarity which was popular in the Tang dynasty who's emphasis was on personal cultivation and spiritual development, and the school of Complete Perfection which is a monastic school that synchronizes teachings of Daoist cultivation of the body, Buddhist meditation, and Confucist ethics, and practices Inner Alchemy to attain spiritual immortality.


Although that would all have to be said over a tea or coffee :). In short, Taoism is about finding harmony and balance in one's life, and cultivating the qualities that help a person attain this balance.

also true but who wants to type that much

Fatal Guillotine
11-09-2010, 05:49 PM
lol i learn a tad bit from Sunny(cool ass brother) and alot about Taoism i learn from research

i study that and Buddhism for a short while haven't found a website where i can do a q&a for Confucianism like i want to

Dokuro
11-09-2010, 06:23 PM
Confucianism is not a religion but a guideline to family values

Urban_Journalz
11-10-2010, 01:46 PM
Taoism is some of the greatest shit in the world. Seriously, it's so deep that most people can't even grasp it. I recommend not only the Tao Te Ching, but also, "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality".

Fatal Guillotine
11-10-2010, 01:50 PM
Taoism is some of the greatest shit in the world. Seriously, it's so deep that most people can't even grasp it. I recommend not only the Tao Te Ching, but also, "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality".



echo that

tao te ching is one of my favorite books

pro.Graveface
11-11-2010, 09:33 AM
I tink tao ism is dope !!!

pro.Graveface
11-11-2010, 09:57 AM
Taoism is some of the greatest shit in the world. Seriously, it's so deep that most people can't even grasp it. I recommend not only the Tao Te Ching, but also, "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality".

mad Thanx Journalz,


Dope Thread Allahz Thanxz

Frank Sobotka
11-11-2010, 10:52 AM
Taoism, never heard of it before but I assume it's about the path one takes in life?

Fatal Guillotine
11-11-2010, 12:59 PM
mad Thanx Journalz,


Dope Thread Allahz Thanxz

youre welcome

Prince Rai
11-11-2010, 03:58 PM
Tao-ism.

Well Tao can be translated to being the "Way".

It can be confusing for people to grasp at first, but it does fall into place if you reflect.

The "Way" is a righteous system, whereby things fall into place. It is a "good" and a "bad" at the same time in order to generate the peaceful energy within or without.

Look at the Yin-Yang circle, it intertwines two opposites to create a circle of life, 360.

Both opposites keep each other alive and the method is the "Way"

For example the world of "health" would not exist without the world of "ills" as we must measure something to the other.

But as I recollect, Tao extends much further than just the Ying-Yang info above.

Respecting your elders is a good balanced "Way". Helping the needy is a balanced "Way".


Truthfully, the Tao of things is not all that easy to explain as I think more about it, because it fortunately is very expansive. But for everything, if ypu ponder and think about life processes, the D.N.A. of how things just happen is TAO. (imo)

Ghost In The 'Lac
11-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Youve all failed Taoism lesson 1, by trying to say "what it is".

If you had even read the first line of the Tao Te Ching, The Tao that can be described is not the eternal Tao.

So stop asking "what it is", and go and read. The Tao places no value in words, and in fact, the Tao Te Ching is mostly concerned with the futility of language.

Language is the Taos greatest enemy.

Face of the Golden Falcon
11-11-2010, 08:45 PM
Youve all failed Taoism lesson 1, by trying to say "what it is".

If you had even read the first line of the Tao Te Ching, The Tao that can be described is not the eternal Tao.

So stop asking "what it is", and go and read. The Tao places no value in words, and in fact, the Tao Te Ching is mostly concerned with the futility of language.

Language is the Taos greatest enemy.

...better put yourself on that "failed" list. Wouldn't better advice be "go and live"?

HETEPU

Mumm Ra
11-12-2010, 07:55 AM
lol yeah that's what i was thinking


realistically speaking -
words are rarely if ever the true form of anything
though they help us understand what they point to

Fatal Guillotine
11-12-2010, 09:13 AM
taobums.com is an ill site to build and q&a with taoist

Urban_Journalz
11-12-2010, 09:21 AM
mad Thanx Journalz,


Dope Thread Allahz Thanxz

Not a problem doc. Use that second book wisely homie, because it's a gem.

Fatal Guillotine
11-12-2010, 09:25 AM
the i ching and the tao te ching go hand in hand imo

by the way try to get more than one translation however much sure it has commentary

Urban_Journalz
11-12-2010, 09:27 AM
Where does the Yin Yang Symbol come from?

http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm

This is only a brief description, but I'll do the best I can. The Yin/Yang Symbol is a representation of what comes after the pure divine power that is creation itself. In Taoist Yoga, The Yin/Yang state is the stage before that of absolute oneness as far as the microcosm is concerned. The state most of us are in now, is represented by the 8 Trigrams of The I-Ching, seen most recently for most of us on the cover of the last Wu-Tang album. We are literally scattered and divided energy. The goal, therefore, as can be seen when reading, "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality", is to gather all aspects of the self together again. Lao Tzu comments on this, "The Tao gave birth to One. One gave birth to Two. Two gave birth to Three. Three gave birth to Ten Thousand." The, "Two" mentioned here, is the Yin and the Yang. We have to backtrack really.

Fatal Guillotine
11-12-2010, 10:02 AM
This is only a brief description, but I'll do the best I can. The Yin/Yang Symbol is a representation of what comes after the pure divine power that is creation itself. In Taoist Yoga, The Yin/Yang state is the stage before that of absolute oneness as far as the microcosm is concerned. The state most of us are in now, is represented by the 8 Trigrams of The I-Ching, seen most recently for most of us on the cover of the last Wu-Tang album. We are literally scattered and divided energy. The goal, therefore, as can be seen when reading, "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality", is to gather all aspects of the self together again. Lao Tzu comments on this, "The Tao gave birth to One. One gave birth to Two. Two gave birth to Three. Three gave birth to Ten Thousand." The, "Two" mentioned here, is the Yin and the Yang. We have to backtrack really.

good drop

check this out

The Story of Ying and Yang and the earliest correlation to cosmology
http://www.regenerating-universe.org/Yin-Yang,_I-Ching_and_cosmology.htm

Fatal Guillotine
11-12-2010, 02:02 PM
Wu Wei

http://www.jadedragon.com/archives/june98/tao.html

Prince Rai
11-12-2010, 03:36 PM
Youve all failed Taoism lesson 1, by trying to say "what it is".

If you had even read the first line of the Tao Te Ching, The Tao that can be described is not the eternal Tao.

So stop asking "what it is", and go and read. The Tao places no value in words, and in fact, the Tao Te Ching is mostly concerned with the futility of language.

Language is the Taos greatest enemy.

You obviously didn't understand my last paragraph.

Here is your flaw:

You say that language is Taos greatest enemy, and then you, in the same post say, "go and read".

You are therefore prescribing to us the enemy of Tao to get closer to somehow grasping the idea of Tao?

Moreover, if by reading material surrounding the Tao allows us to familiarise ourselves somewhat to what "it is", then isn't language at the same time Taoisms best friend?



Remember that Tao is an eternal "Way". In eternity, language cannot always stay the enemy. :)

Prince Rai
11-12-2010, 03:37 PM
^^

And just to add on,

by NO means is language the enemy, it is ALWAYS the intention of the PERSON who uses it!

knewcheeze
11-12-2010, 04:22 PM
PEACE
well.....even though
the gospel of Hiphop is now
mah favorite number 1 book/scripture

the number 2 spot is a tie......
Love cipher(120) or I Ching

so owl speak on sum I Ching

the 6th line of the hexagram generally
denotes the sage....the hermit....that
dude on the mountain top....which can
easily alternate to the situation of the
1st line due to the fact that sages in
the mountain generally are not rich

if you notice religious folks tend to have
money problems due to scripture
misinterpertation

the 5th line usually denotes the king

the 4th the people surrounding the king

the 3rd is usually where the trouble goes down

the 2nd line usually where the the good
regular type folks is

and 1st is like the 2nd except usually
represents the infancy of a situation

Wind/Wood is symbolic of the Liver
The liver deals with extra sensory perception
and mental powers
Wind wood is symbolic of proceedinghumbly

grouped with wind/wood is thunder is symbolic of the gall bladder
which deals with decision making
and taking action

fire(and small intestine) is symbolic of the heart
brightness

the earth is symbolic of the stomach
and deals with resposiveness and pure
yin energy

the mountain is grouped with earth and is
symbolic of the spleen which
deals with meditation and transferring
the earths energy into usable energy

heaven is lungs which deals with initiating
and pure yang energy

the lake is grouped with heaven and
symbolizes the large intestine
and JOY

and water is kidney....danger
hardship

pro.Graveface
11-12-2010, 04:40 PM
the i - TJING is book of changes , my pops is deep with it, he throws 3coinz and al ,allwayz funny when i interupt itslike he in mad calculating mood, haha, yo ima try to get that tao-te-tjing

pro.Graveface
11-15-2010, 03:07 AM
dao-ism?

Urban_Journalz
11-16-2010, 08:32 AM
good drop

check this out

The Story of Ying and Yang and the earliest correlation to cosmology
http://www.regenerating-universe.org/Yin-Yang,_I-Ching_and_cosmology.htm

Wu Wei

http://www.jadedragon.com/archives/june98/tao.html

Nice indeed. Thanks a lot b.

Urban_Journalz
11-16-2010, 08:34 AM
dao-ism?

Gong-Fu. Wu-Dang.

pro.Graveface
11-16-2010, 09:34 AM
yo thats what Im working on! in some weird sence

Fatal Guillotine
11-16-2010, 12:07 PM
Gong-Fu. Wu-Dang.

What is the history of Wudang Taoism...........

From the Zhou Dynasty to the Eastern Han Dynasty many Taoist Internal Alchemists and hermits longed for a secluded place deep in Mount Wudang for their practice of meditation and esoteric arts:

Yee Xee, the famous disciple of Lao Tzu, once practiced internal alchemy in First Heavenly Gate on Wudang. In the Tang and Song Dynasty, Taoism practice grew strong on Wudang; famous Taoist figures such as Yao Jian, Sun Si Miao, Lu Dong Bing, Guo Tian Wei, and Chen Tuan began their practice of Internal Alchemy in retreat on this sacred mountain.

Dai Meng, a famous army general in the Han Dymasty, left his military office and studied internal alchemy with his teacher on Wudang. Ma Ming Sheng, Yin Chang Sheng, widely-known alchemy practitioners in the Eastern Han Dynasty, once sought retreat here in Wudang to practice alchemy in company with the beautiful green mountains, lucid creeks and deep green bamboo forests.

Ever since the foundation of Taoism in China, Mt. Wudang has gradually became the most ideal location for Taoists activities and retreat practice in central China.

In the Wei-Jin South and North Dynasty, the Tao- practitioners who moved into Mt. Wudang increased in number. In the Tang and Song Dynasty, Wudang Taoism evolved into its peak development time, during which famous Taoist figures such as Yao Jian, Sun Si Miao, Lu Dong Bing, Guo Tian Wei, and Chen Tuan began to establish their hermitage house here for their undertakings of the practice of Taoist Internal Alchemy one after another. The Ming Dynasty anounced the peak period for development of Wudang Taoism, and Zhen Wu was respected as a God at the royal palace, and Zhang San feng, the famous Taoist and founder of Taiji on Mt. Wudang, was called upon to show up in the royal court.

SECTS OF WUDANG

Before the Northern Song Dynasty, there is no prominent sect division within Wudang Taoism. But common people like to divide the sects into two categories, one is Elixir and Caldron sect, another is Incantation sect. After the South Song Dynasty, they gradually evolved into the Quan Zhen sect, Zheng Yi sect, Five Dragon sect, Purity and Nothingness sect, and others. Though there are some difference existing among them; the mainstream inclined to seek a harmonization among all the sects.

QuanZhen Sect
In 1167, a Taoist from Shan'Xi, came and settled down in Mt. Wudang to establish the QuanZhan sect of Taoism. In 1275, Wang Si Zhen came and lodged in the Five Dragon temple to teach the ideas of the sect and his disciples once reached more than 100.

Upper Purity Sect
It was created in the Eastern Jin Dynasty. In 1141, Taoist Shun Ji Ren wandered into Mt. Wudang and settled down in the Five Dragon temple, teaching disciples and renovating the collapsed houses. Beacause he based his activity solely at this location, some people call the sect as “Upper Purity Five Dragon Sect.”

Purity and Nothingness Sect
This is the most influencial Taoism sect which originated from the Upper Purity sect. They practiced incantation and claimed all methods came from the Primeval Heaven God. In the Song and Yuan Dynasty this sect was once very populer in the south of China. The northern branch based their activity in Mt. Wudang and later their disciples increased to reach more than several hundred.

San Feng Sect
In the Ming Dynasty the famous Taoist Zhang San Feng came to settle down in Mt.Wudang. Zhang San Feng began to set up San Feng sect who proposed the combination of three religion (Buddhism, Taoism and Confuciusism), cultivation of self for the benefit of the others and esteeming Zhen Wu as the highest God. He is also looked at as the founder of Taiji Quan.

Dragon Gate Sect
Qiu Chu Ji, the disciple of Wang Cong Yang, created the sect. In 1669 Wang Chang Yue, the resurgence successor of Dragon Gate sect, began his journey southward with his disciples from Beijing and set up to offer his teachings in Yu Xu Temple in Wudang. Ever since then the Dragon Gate sect has become the mainstream of Wudang Taoism and many Taoists are disciples of this sect. In the Qing Dynasty, the Dragon Gate sect became more and more popular, and is the main branch of Taoism found in China today.

Xuan Wu Sect
In the Yong Le Period of Ming Dynasty (1413) the emperor ordered the start of a very big construction project in Mt. Wudang. Zhang Yu Qing,one Taoist from the Zheng Yi sect, acted upon the order and called more than four hundred Taoists from nearby provinces and brought them to Mt. Wudang. All these Taoist regarded Zhen Wu as the common God and respected Zhang San Feng as their founder. Therefore, people called them Zhen Wu Xuan Wu sect. In 1989, by a common understanding, the Taoism Association of Wudang agreed to change the name of the sect as “Wudang Xuan Wu sect.”

Lang Mei Sect
It is the typical local sect in Wudnag area. In 1412, Taoist Priest Shun Bi Yun who lived in the Southern Cave Temple created the sect. His disciple called him the Pure Green Grand Master.

pro.Graveface
11-17-2010, 11:46 AM
it's the same I tink

Fatal Guillotine
11-17-2010, 11:47 AM
whats the same?

pro.Graveface
11-17-2010, 11:52 AM
daoism and taoism

Fatal Guillotine
11-17-2010, 11:57 AM
daoism and taoism

simple Romanization which has lead to debates over the phonetics, loanwords, etc.

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 03:56 PM
A Daoist Philosophy
http://mailstar.net/daoist.html

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 03:58 PM
Theory and Doctrine of Yin and Yang

It was mentioned earlier that the great unification split into Yin and Yang. According to The Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu, "reversal is the movement of the Tao". Both in the sphere of nature and human affairs, when the development of anything brings it to one extreme, a reversal to the other extreme takes place. Everything has its own negation. This is the principle of the Yin and Yang interaction in nature and human affairs.

This concept is also associated with the Book of Changes – I Ching, “When the sun has reached its meridian, it declines and when the moon has become full, it wanes.” For,” Reversal is the way of the Tao.” What is true with natural phenomena is also true in human nature. This concept had a profound influence on the behavior of many a Chinese. It is said that they remain cautious even in times of success and prosperity and hopeful even in times of failure and poverty. This doctrine of the Golden Median is based on the concept of harmony between Yin and Yang. Enough is enough, never too much. It is better to have less than to have too much. Having too much and overdoing something may be counter-productive and may run the risk of getting the opposite of what one expects.

Yin and Yang were created due to the observation of instability in nature. Yin and Yang exist for the stability of nature. For example, in the vacuum near an unstable nucleus, a Yin and Yang pair (electron -positron) was created to render stability to the area. A stable atom exists mainly due to the presence of positive protons and negative electrons. Proper balance and harmony can be maintained by an intermingling of the Yin and Yang, the moon and the sun, the Earth and the Heaven, and the transformation of all things will proceed smoothly. There is an interplay and exchange between the male and female and all things will be produced. The Yang gives the beginning and the Yin completes it.

Alienation

Yin and Yang cannot exist alone in a separate isolation. One cannot exist without the other. Yin separated from Yang or Yang separated from Yin in isolation without any interaction with each other is Alienation. Any philosophy that promotes the positive, the strong, the bright, the visible and the absolute matter and denies the negative, the weak, the dark, the invisible and the spiritual and conducts one's life in accordance with such a philosophy, lives in a state of alienation. And any philosophy that promotes the latter and denies the former is equally alienated. So, without the combination of the Yin and Yang pair, all other mechanisms of interaction would not be possible. A system that does not tolerate the Yin and Yang contradiction suffers alienation, poverty and meaninglessness. When the alienation is out of proportion, the survival of human society is in danger. Changes are then necessary to remove the elements that cause the alienation in order to restore the dialectic of harmony.

Complimenting Aspect

Yin and Yang are two opposite elementary principles from which all phenomena are produced. This concept is associated with the Five Elements in the ancient medicine theory of the first millennium B.C. in China. Reality is a pair of opposites and a group of five elements on rotation succeeding one another each taking its turn. This concept is also present in the writings of philosopher Hsun Tzi. Opposites of Yin and Yang are complementary to each other for the formation of a stable system. Such a contradiction is necessary for the survival of any living system. Alienation on the other hand, is harmful to the survival of the system. With out the complementing aspect there will be no inheritance of genetic replication. The examples of complementing aspects of yin and yang include the paradoxes of the matter and the mind, materialism and idealism, and the biological and the spiritual. Both are parts of the unity as in a ring. There is no moral priority of one over the other, for no point in a ring is before or after any other point. Alienation is removed, but complementary aspects are preserved for the life process.

Interpenetration

Intrinsically, Yin does not exist as purely Yin, nor does Yang exist as purely Yang. There is Yin in the Yang, and Yang in the Yin. Yin and Yang do not only complement each other, they are also inside each other. Yin influences Yang not only from without but also from within. And Yang influences Yin in the same manner. This is interpenetration, another aspect of the Yin and Yang relationship. In other words there is action in inactions, strength in weakness, unity in diversity, victory in failure and life in sacrifice. In human society there is no such thing as pure socialism or pure private enterprise. There will always be private enterprise in socialism and socialism in private enterprise - society. The two will penetrate each other for stability and survival.

Transformation

Interpenetration allows the presence of Yin in the interior of Yang and Yang inside Yin. The Yin and the Yang in the interior of each half can expand or contract internally. Motion and development are associated with such activity. The two halves can transform into each other. So there are both external and internal contradictions and for that matter both external and internal interactions. The result of such transformation is the production of pluralism. Mutual production and mutual overcoming as the seasons rotate in cycles of rising and falling, which unite man and nature. All things are related. Reality is also a process of mutual transformation. But the essence of reality is always the same, the will to survive. Transformation between Yin and Yang ensures the success of the survival and meaningful life in society.

Harmony

Harmony is not static. It is a result of dynamic operation. Harmony between Yin and Yang reinforced the Doctrine of the Golden Median. In this respect, Chinese philosophy is concerned more with relationship than with substance. The universe is a well-ordered state of existence but it is also in a state of constant change and readjustment. Things are forever interfused and intermingled. The universe is a realm of perpetual activity. The activity takes the form of cycles of Yin and Yang. It is for a dynamic homeostasis for the survival of a system. Harmony does not stand still. It has a progressive direction leading to the development of morality, the stability of the society and the maturation of a civilization.

Yin Yang Doctrine within Taoism

The Yin and Yang concept is very simple. Yet it is quite difficult to understand it in a deep manner. The concept is derived from the experiences gained by practitioners engaged in the pursuit of Union with Tao. The Yin and Yang interactions that occur in our daily life lie within the logic of our common sense. The successful practice of Yin and Yang in life leads to a great state of harmony. This is the basis of good health and as such is maintained by the Qi, which is both physical and moral. The concept of Yin and Yang is thus the cornerstone of dialectics in Chinese philosophy.

The movement of Tao gives rise to Qi. The spontaneity of Qi gives rise to the interactions of Yin and Yang. Yin and Yang are the opposite expressions of the same reality. Mass and energy are the opposite expressions of the same Qi. Qi is the mass and Qi is the energy, yet Qi is also the transforming force between mass and energy. Energy is represented by Yang and mass by Yin. Yin and Yang are different and opposite; they undergo movement and transformation in the Infinite Emptiness. The union of Yin and Yang becomes harmony. This union of harmony is possible because they are opposite. It is because they are opposite that interactions take place. This is the source of interactions. The Yin and Yang concept is applied to all opposites in the universe, to substance and to motion. For motion and stillness also are intrinsic with Yin and Yang.

Thus the Infinite Emptiness is the field; Qi resting is the mass - Yin; Qi in motion is the energy, Yang; and the Qi both resting and in motion is the transforming force.

According to Lao Tzu, all things carry Yin and Yang, through the impact of the Qi, harmony is accomplished.


The Dialectics of the Qi

The Canon of Internal Medicine assigned different domains and substances to Yin and Yang. "Heaven is Yang, the Earth Yin, the Sun is Yang, the Moon Yin," "Yin is internal to preserve Yang, Yang is external to utilize Yin.” "Water is Yin, fire is Yang.” The structural substance of life is Yin and the functional activity is Yang. "Yin and Yang are the Tao of Heaven and Earth, the principles of all things, the parents of all transformations, the origin of life and death. The interactions of Yin and Yang include the dialectic of not only the unification of opposites but also the complimenting aspect of opposites.

Yin and yang may oppose each other but also attract each other. In Chapter 46 of Canon of Internal Medicine, it is recorded that “Where there is strength, there is also weakness. Too strong is conducive to too much anger, and too weak is liable to be hurt. ” “There is Yin inside Yang, and Yang inside Yin.” The interpenetration and contradictions of Yin and Yang creates new substances and conceptual significance. There is no limit to the evolution of the Yin and Yang opposites, generating new phenomena and quality ad infinitum.

The origin of things will evolve in quantitative changes, while the limit of things will evolve in qualitative changes. From the beginning to the end of life, there will be changes and if the interactions get out of control, disorders and diseases will ensue. All the changes should lead to homeostatic harmony to ensure health.

To maintain homeostatic balance is not only a biological necessity but also a philosophical issue. The human body possesses the ability to maintain and regulate the structure and function of life unto harmony. The Five Element System is a demonstration of the Five Activating Forces operating not in a mechanical way but with mutual interactions and a feedback mechanism. It is not just a reaction of cause and effect, but with interactions resulting from the inter-relatedness of all the Five Substances in nature or the Five Activating Forces of all the internal organs and glands of the body. Cause and effect is direct, but interrelatedness also considers the indirect interactions.

Some people think that since Yin and Yang are opposites, therefore they must be hostile to each other and fight to eliminate each other. This is a philosophical blunder. If Yin and Yang fight then nature will not be in harmony and there will be chaos everywhere.

The human body does fight diseases, but the objective is to regain the Yin and Yang balance and health. Diseases and excesses are alienation and as such must be removed to restore a balance of Yin and Yang in the living system.

"Reversal is the movement of Tao." This is the secret of life and the law of nature.

When things have gone too far to the extreme, there will be a movement of reversal. This is how the body develops defense mechanism and the physical world develops changes in order to return to the state of harmony.

The entire mechanism of the reversal is simply via the operation of Yin and Yang through the Five Element system.

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 04:01 PM
YIN, YANG , THE TAO, AND WHOLENESS

http://ldolphin.org/YinYang.shtml

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 04:02 PM
Laozi Debate Volume 51 Number 6, November/December 1998
by Spencer P.M. Harrington

The 1993 discovery of the oldest version of a seminal Daoist text in a late fourth-century B.C. tomb in Guodian, Hubei Province, China, has provoked scholarly debate about the origins of the Daoist and Confucian traditions and the relationship between them. The text, known as the Laozi or Daodejing (The Book of the Way and Its Power), is considered sacred to 20 million Daoists worldwide and has been widely read and memorized by educated Chinese for centuries. A profoundly influential work that encourages readers to obey the natural order (or dao) rather than human authority, the Laozi has been translated more times than any book other than the Bible. The text of the Guodian Laozi, which is at least 2,350 years old, was embargoed until Chinese scholars prepared a modern Chinese transcription, which was published earlier this year. The work was finally scrutinized at a recent Dartmouth College conference.

The Guodian Laozi is 150 years older than any other known version and was found in a small tomb possibly belonging to a tutor of one of the crown princes of the Warring States period (476-221 B.C.) kingdom of Chu. The tomb was excavated by government archaeologists after grave robbers had dug a small hole and removed a few objects. Fortunately, the looters ignored the Laozi, which was written with a brush on bamboo slips and tied together in three bundles that were stored with 15 other texts. The cache is the "Chinese equivalent of the Dead Sea Scrolls," says Sarah Allan, professor of Chinese studies at Dartmouth. "They are works that are already changing our outlook on the formation of the early Daoist and Confucian traditions." The 15 additional texts, which were not studied at the meeting, are primarily Confucian material associated with Zisi, Confucius' grandson. Only one of these texts has ever been seen before.

The three bundles include material from 32 of the modern text's 81 chapters. Twenty-four of the book's chapters correspond to chapters of the modern edition. The remaining eight include only fragments of today's chapters. The sequence of the material on the bamboo slips is also totally different from all other known versions. Equally perplexing is an entirely new text Chinese scholars are calling The Great One Generated Water that was found attached to one of the Laozi bundles. The Great One is written in the same hand as the Laozi strips in the bundle, and it is not clear whether this new text was considered part of the larger one.

Scholars at the conference considered two possible explanations for why the Guodian Laozi is incomplete and out of sequence, says Robert Henricks, professor of Chinese religions at Dartmouth. The first is that the bamboo slips were assembled in random order and represent excerpts of a larger, complete text. These may have been chapters the tutor was fond of teaching to the prince and others. This possibility is favored by scholars from mainland China, many of whom feel strongly that the book was authored by one person, Laozi ("Old Master"), a shadowy sixth-century B.C. philosopher said to have been Confucius' teacher. The Laozi's antiauthoritarian teachings have been considered a counterpoint to Confucianism's reverence for ritual and hierarchy, and the two philosophical schools have long argued over whether Daoism or Confucianism is older. Current Chinese scholarship favors the Daoists.

The other possibility, favored mostly by Western scholars, is that the Guodian bundles are collections of sayings that were circulating in fourth-century B.C. China and were later combined with other sources by one or several editors to produce an updated version of the book, known from a text dating to 200 B.C. discovered in a tomb in Mawangdui, Hunan Province, in 1973.

The philosophical orientation of the different Guodian bundles awaits further research. Some scholars say they focus on different subjects, such as ruling and self-improvement. While it is possible the first two bundles were written by the same hand, Henricks says the third was clearly brushed by a different person. No definitive statement can yet be made about this scribe's interests and beliefs.

Scholars of early China have been tantalized by reports of another discovery of philosophical writings dating to the same period as the Guodian cache. Unfortunately, these texts were stolen from a woman's tomb a few miles from Guodian and smuggled to Hong Kong. Although they were bought back and are now being prepared for publication, Allan says the scholarly value of these texts has been compromised by their theft because they may well be incomplete.

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 04:04 PM
Book of Lieh-Tzü

http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/tt/index.htm

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 04:06 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzi
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Wenzi
https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/dspace/bitstream/1887/4428/16/conclusie.pdf

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 04:10 PM
Quote from an article entitled "Neiyeh", by Dr. Russell Kirkland, Associate Professor of Religion, University of Georgia.

A long-overlooked text of classical times, the Neiye ("Inner Cultivation" or "Inner Development") is a text of some 1600 characters, written in rhymed prose, a form close to that of the Daode jing. It sometimes echoes that text and the Zhuangzi, but it lacks many of the concerns found in those works. Generally dated to 350-300 BCE, it is preserved in the Guanzi (ch. 49), along with two later, apparently derivative texts, Xinshu, shang and xia (ch. 36-37). The Neiye had extremely profound effects on Taoism and Chinese culture. It seems to have influenced (1) the form, and certain contents, of the Daode jing; (2) the self-cultivation beliefs and practices of many later Taoists (from the Huainanzi and Taiping jing to the 20th-century); and (3) certain fundamental concepts of traditional Chinese medicine. It may also have influenced Neo-Confucian ideals of self-cultivation, by way of Mencius' teachings on cultivating the heart/mind (xin) and building up qi (Mengzi 2A.2).

The Neiye seems to be the earliest extant text that explains and encourages self-cultivation through daily, practiced regulation of the forces of life. Those forces include *qi ("life-energy" — the universal force that gives life to all things); and *jing ("vital essence" — one's innate reservoir of qi). (There is no trace here of the much later Chinese concept that jing referred to reproductive fluids.) Like Mencius, the Neiye suggests that the xin was originally as it should be, but now needs rectification (zheng). The xin becomes agitated by excessive activity, which leads to dissipation of one's jing, resulting in confusion, sickness, and death. To preserve one's health and vitality, one must quieten (jing) one's xin. Then one can then attract and retain qi, and other vaguely interrelated forces, such as shen ("spirit" or "spiritual consciousness"), and tao (a vague term, apparently interchangeable with shen and ch'i). (Such concepts are explained more intelligibly in passages of the Huainanzi: see Roth 1991)."

Shazi Daoren on alt.philosophy.taoism recently took a stab at a translation of this work and posted it in five groups of chapters here (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:alt.philosophy.taoism+insubject:nei ye&start=0&scoring=d&num=100)

He's given me permission to reproduce his translation here in full which follows.

Neiye
Inner Cultivation

zhang 1
1 The Essence of all things
2 Thru transformation creates life.
3 Below, it brings to life the five grains,
4 Above, it aligns the stars.
5 When flowing among the heaven and earth,
6 We call this the 'spiritual being'.
7 When stored up in the center of the bosom,
8 We call this the Sage.

zhang 2
1 Therefore, regarding 'Energy', it is:
2 Bright! as if ascending the sky;
3 Dark! as if entering into the abyss;
4 Disperse! as if existing in the ocean;
5 Present! as if existing in the self.
6 Therefore this Energy:
7 Cannot be stopped by force,
8 Yet can be pacified by Virtue,
9 Cannot be spoken by voice,
10 Yet can be embraced by the mind.
11 Reverently nurture it and do not let it go:
12 This is called 'developing Virtue'
13 When Virtue develops and wisdom emerges,
14 The myriad things will all be attained.

zhang 3
1 All forms of the Heart
2 Are naturally infused, naturally filled,
3 Naturally generated, naturally completed.
4 They can become lost, out of place
5 Due to sorrow, happiness,
6 joy, anger, desire, or profit-seeking.
7 If you are able to cast off sorrow, happiness,
8 joy, anger, desire and profit-seeking,
9 Your Heart will return to its natural flow
10 The natural emotion of the Heart
11 Is beneficial calmness and tranquility.
12 Do not vex it, do not disturb it
13 And harmony will naturally develop.

zhang 4
1 Clear! as though right by your side.
2 Vague! as though it will not be attained.
3 Indescribable! as though beyond the limitless.
4 The proof of this is not far off:
5 Daily we make use of its inner power.
6 The Way is what fills the body,
7 Yet people are unable to fix it in place.
8 It goes forth but does not return,
9 It comes back but does not stay.
10 Silent! none can hear its sound.
11 Present! it exists within the heart.
12 Obscure! we do not see its form.
13 Manifest! it arises with us.
14 Look at it and not see its form,
15 Listen to it and not hear its sound.
16 Yet there is a course to its accomplishments.
17 We call it the Way.

zhang 5
1 The Way has no fixed position;
2 In the cultivated Heart, it gracefully abides.
3 When the heart is calm and Energy aligned
4 The Way can thereby repose.
5 The Way is not distant from us;
6 When people attain it they are fruitful
7 The Way does not leave;
8 When people are in tune with it, they understand.
9 Thus it is present! as if you need but ask for it.
10 Remote! as if dissipated and is nowhere to be found.
11 The Way's sensation:
12 How can you be in tune with its sound?
13 Cultivate your Heart and you will resonate in tune.
14 The Way thereby can be attained

zhang 6 "Dao"
1 As for Dao,
2 The mouth is not able to speak of it
3 The eyes are not able to see it
4 The ears are not able to hear it
5 It is that which cultivates the Heart and aligns the body.
6 When people lose it they die
7 When they attain it they flourish.
8 When endeavors lose it they fail;
9 When they attain it they succeed.
10 Thus Dao is always without root without trunk
11 Without leaves without flowers.
12 The myriad things are generated by it;
13 The myriad things are completed by it.
14 We declare it 'Dao'.

zhang 7 "Ruling Principles"
1 Heaven's ruling principle is to be aligned.
2 Earth's ruling principle is to be level.
3 Humanity's ruling principles are grace and tranquility.
4 Spring, autumn, winter, and summer
5 These are heaven's seasons.
6 Mountains, hills, rivers, and valleys
7 These are earth's features.
8 Pleasure and anger, taking and giving
9 These are human devices.
10 Therefore the Sage
11 Changes with the seasons and doesn't transform them,
12 Yields to things and does not change them

zhang 8 "Alignment"
1 If able to be aligned, able to be calm,
2 Only then can you be stable.
3 With a stable heart within your bosom,
4 Eyes and ears acute and clear,
5 Four limbs firm and sure,
6 You can thereby make a dwelling-place for Essence.
7 As for Essence:
8 It is the Essence of Energy.
9 Energy's Dao is to flourish,
10 To flourish is to think
11 To think is to know
12 To know is where to stop.
13 All forms of the Heart
14 Crossing over to knowledge lose life.

zhang 9 "One"
1 Those able to transform One thing are called 'Spiritual';
2 Those able to change One affair are called 'wise'.
3 To transform without expending Energy;
4 To change without expending wisdom:
5 By grasping the One only the Master is able to do this!
6 Grasp the One; do not loose it,
7 And you will be able to master the myriad things.
8 The Master acts upon things,
9 And is not acted upon by things
10 Attain to the guiding principle of the One.

zhang 10 "managing"
1 Harness the Heart within your bosom
2 Control the words issuing forth from your mouth,
3 Manage affairs in concert with others.
4 Then it follows, the world will be governed.
5 "One word is attained, and the world submits"
6 So goes the saying.

zhang 11 "Aligning the Body"
1 When the body is not aligned,
2 De will not thrive.
3 When the center is not calm
4 The Heart will not be harnessed.
5 Align the body, collect De.
6 Leave to heaven benevolence and to earth justice--
7 These will naturally thrive on their own.

zhang 12 "Attaining the Center"
1 The Spirit comprehends the Ultimate;
2 Manifest! It understands the myriad things.
3 Hold it within your bosom, do not waver.
4 Do not let external things confuse your faculties
5 Do not let your faculties confuse your Heart
6 This is called 'attaining the center.'

zhang 13 "Stabilizing Jing"
1 The Spirit naturally abides in the body,
2 One moment it goes forward, one moment it comes back,
3 No one is able to think of it.
4 Losing it results in disorder
5 Attaining it results in order.
6 Reverently purify its dwelling-place,
7 And Jing will naturally arise.
8 Jing: put aside thinking of it,
9 Still your effort to control it.
10 Strictly and reverently venerate it
11 And Jing will naturally stablize.
12 Attain it and don't let it go,
13 Ears and eyes not overflow
14 Heart and mind without any scheme,
15 Align the Heart within the breast
16 And the myriad things will attain their full measure.

zhang 14 "The Heart within the Heart"
1 Dao fills all under heaven.
2 It exists everywhere that people are,
3 But people are unable to understand this.
4 One word explains it,
5 Ascending to reach the sky;
6 Descending to the limits of earth;
7 Replete throughout the nine provinces.
8 How can I speak or explain it?
9 It exists in the calm Heart.
10 When my Heart is harnessed, my faculties are ordered.
11 When my Heart is calm, my faculties are calmed.
12 What orders them is the Heart;
13 What calms them is the Heart.
14 The Heart is used to harbor the Heart
15 At the center of the Heart is another Heart,
16 The Heart within the Heart.
17 For awareness precedes words.
18 Awareness then leads to formed reality;
19 Formed reality then leads to words.
20 Words then lead to action;
21 Action then leads to order,
22 To not be ordered invariably leads to disorder.
23 Disorder leads to death.

zhang 15 "The Fount of Qi"
1 When Jing is preserved, it naturally grows.
2 Externally it will emanate.
3 Hidden inside, it becomes a primal spring
4 Abounding like a flood, it harmonizes and equalizes
5 It becomes a fount of Qi.
6 When the fount is not dried up,
7 The four limbs are firm.
8 When the spring is not drained,
9 The nine apertures freely circulate [Qi]
10 Then you are able to exhaust the universe,
11 And cover the four seas.
12 Within, when your mind is unconfused,
13 Without, there will be no disasters.
14 When your heart is whole within,
15 Your body will be whole without,
16 And you won't encounter natural disasters,
17 Or receive harm from others;
18 Call such 'Shengren'.

zhang 16 - Inner Virtue
1 If you are able to be aligned and tranquil,
2 Your skin will be supple and smooth,
3 Your ears and eyes will be acute and clear,
4 Your muscles will flex and your bones strong,
5 You will then be able to bear the Great Circle of heaven,
6 And tread over the Great Square of earth;
7 You will abase yourself with great purity,
8 Perceiving with great clarity.
9 Be reverently aware without wavering,
10 And you will daily renew your Virtue,
11 Completely comprehending the world,
12 Drawing from the Four Directions,
13 Reverently developing your wholeness.
14 This is called Inner Virtue.
15 However, should you not return to practice,
16 This will increase your instability.

zhang 17 - Practicing Dao
1 To be wholly in accord with Dao,
2 You must practice, you must focus,
3 You must expand, you must relax,
4 You must be firm, you must be regular.
5 Hold fast to excellence; do not let abandon it.
6 Chase away excess, let go of the trivial.
7 Once you know the Ultimate
8 You will return to Dao and De.

zhang 18 - Manifest Qi
1 When the whole Heart is centered,
2 It cannot be concealed or hidden.
3 It is apparent from your body's appearance,
4 It is visible by your skin color.
5 With good Qi, when you greet others,
6 They will be kinder than brothers and sisters.
7 With bad Qi, when you greet others,
8 They will harm you with force and weapons.
9 The sound of 'no-words'
10 Is louder than the thunder of a drum.
11 The perceptible form of the Heart's Qi
12 Is brighter than the sun and moon,
13 And more concerned than parents.
14 Rewards are not sufficient to encourage the good;
15 Punishments are not sufficient to discourage the bad.
16 The mind attains Qi,
17 And the world submits.
18 The Heart and mind stabilized,
19 And the world listens.

zhang 19 - Concentrating Qi
1 When you concentrate Qi like a spirit,
2 All things will support your existence.
3 Are you able to concentrate, able to be one with them?
4 Are you able to be without divining or counting stalks,
5 Yet know bad and good fortune?
6 Are you able to stop? Are you able to be yourself?
7 Are you able to not demand from others,
8 Yet attain it within yourself?
9 You think about it and think about it.
10 And again, deeply think about it.
11 You think about it, yet you can't fathom it.
12 A Spiritual Being will fathom it,
13 Not due to the Spiritual Being's power,
14 But due to the ultimate of Jing and Qi.
15 When your four limbs are aligned
16 Your blood and Qi are tranquil;
17 When your mind is one and your heart concentrated,
18 And your ears and eyes not distracted;
19 Even that which is most remote will be accessible.

zhang 20 - Self-Realization
1 Thinking and searching generate knowledge.
2 Laziness and ease generate worry.
3 Cruelty and arrogance generate resentment.
4 Worry and grief generate disease.
5 Disease then causes death.
6 When you think about it and don't let it go,
7 You will be internally distressed and externally weak.
8 Don’t let little things become big plans,
9 Else life will abandon you.
10 Eat, but do not exceed your appetite,
11 Think, but do not overanalyze.
12 Temper and put these in balance,
13 And you will attain self-realization.

zhang 21 - Balance and Alignment
1 As for all human life,
2 Heaven brings forth its Jing/essence,
3 Earth brings forth its bodily form.
4 These join in order to make a person.
5 When in harmony, then there is life;
6 When not in harmony then there is no life.
7 In examining the Dao of harmony,
8 You cannot sense it by sight,
9 You cannot summon it by a chance meeting.
10 When balance and alignment fill your chest,
11 And respiration is governed within the heart,
12 This results in enhanced life.
13 When fondness and resentment cause you to lose stability,
14 Then make a determination
15 To restrict the five desires,
16 To remove these two misfortunes.
17 Do not be fondly attached, do not be resentful,
18 Let balance and alignment fill your chest.

zhang 22 - Stabilizing Your Nature
1 As for all human life,
2 It must flow from balance and alignment
3 Where we lose these,
4 Must be by fondness, resentment, worry and anxiety.
5 Therefore, to stop resentment there's nothing like poetry;
6 To cast aside worry there's nothing like music;
7 To temper music there's nothing like ritual;
8 To keep to ritual there's nothing like reverence;
9 To keep to reverence there's nothing like stillness.
10 When inwardly still and outwardly reverent
11 You are able to return to your nature
12 Your nature will become greatly stable.

zhang 23 - Dao of Eating
1 As for the Dao of eating,
2 Overeating harms the body
3 And brings misfortune
4 Undereating dries up the bones
5 And congeals the blood
6 The point between overeating and undereating:
7 This is called harmonious completion.
8 It is the where jing abides
9 And where wisdom is generated.
10 When hunger and eating lose balance,
11 Then make a determination
12 When full, move away from gluttony;
13 When hungry, expand your thoughts beyond food;
14 When old, abandon anxiety.
15 If you don't move away from gluttony,
16 Qi will not circulate within your extremities.
17 If when lusting food you don’t expand your thoughts,
18 When you eat you will not stop.
19 If when old you don’t abandon anxiety,
20 This will cause your alertness to be exhausted.

zhang 24 - Recycling Qi
1 Enlarge your Heart and release it,
2 Expand your Qi and increase it,
3 Your body calm and unmoving;
4 You're able to hold to the one
and abandon the myriad distractions.
5 You see profit and are not tempted,
6 You see harm and do not fear;
7 Detached and relaxed, yet compassionate,
8 In solitude enjoying yourself,
9 This is called recycling Qi,
10 Your thoughts and actions are like heaven.

zhang 25 - Not Forcing
1 As for all human life,
2 It thrives within serenity.
3 Worry results in the loss of disipline,
4 Resentment results in the loss of equilibrium.
5 When worried or sad, fondly attached or resentful,
6 The Dao then is without abode.
7 Fondness and desire: still them,
8 Folly and confusion: correct them.
9 Do not pull, do not push,
10 Good fortune will naturally return,
11 The Dao will naturally come.
12 By this means you can rely on it.
13 Tranquility results in attaining it,
14 Impatience results in losing it.

zhang 26 - Dao of Tempering Desire
1 The ephemeral Qi within the Heart:
2 One moment it comes, one moment it departs.
3 So minute, it is without interior;
4 So great, it is without exterior.
5 Where we lose it
6 Is due to our impatience causing harm.
7 When the Heart maintains stillness,
8 Dao will naturally stabilize.
9 For people who attain Dao,
10 It pervades their structure to the tip of their hair.
11 At the center of their chest, nothing is lost.
12 Temper desire with Dao
13 And the myriad things will not trouble you.

translation © 2005 - shazi daoren

Notes:
some of these phrases were very difficult.
some of them didn't quite align with daojia,
or at least to my understanding of it.
it's very difficult to be unbiased in translation.

zhang 6
this is close to a literal translation
Heart is xin - heart/mind

zhang 7
the first three lines are quite terse
in chinese heaven-rule-align, etc.
i followed a bit of roth's approach
to solving this obliqueness.

zhang 8
this verse seems core to neiye
and equates jing and qi as the
object of alignment. such alignment
focuses on calmness, centered heart,
a specific awareness of eyes and ears,
and posture. then jing is able to
dwell and qi is able to flourish
(grow, flourish, be born, etc.) this
doesn't seem to result in emptiness
but rather a level of thought that
stops short of knowledge.

zhang 9
this is a very interesting verse.
the first two lines don't convey
the One theme as well as in the
chinese, where line 1 starts 'One thing'
and line 2 'One affair'. This focus
on 'One' is replete in this zhang.
The Master - junzi, is the same word
konzi uses as the 'superior man'.
i felt that the use of Master in 9.5
juxtaposed against the verb 'master' in 9.7
works very well.
I really like the concept the master
acts (not wei, but rather, shi) upon
things and is not acted upon was
an interesting concept. Although
the 'One' concept seems quite daoist,
the use of junzi and some of the
act on things don't be acted upon
may be a bit confucian.

zhang 10
harness, control, manage, govern
are all the same word in chinese.
yet the idea conveys better as
multiple words appropriate to the
object of each line.
The last two lines are a bit
enigmatic, and i've translated it
as close to the text as i could.
it's a powerful statement, perhaps
a bit of hyperbole, but yet the
idea of attaining dao in later
daojiao does empower the Master.

zhang 11
the Roth translation seems to ignore
line 6 which is 'tian ren di yi'
'heaven benevolence earth justice/righteousness'

roth has:
5 Align your body, assist the inner power,
6 Then it will gradually come on its own.

true, benevolence and righteousness
are distinctly confucian thoughts, yet
it makes more sense to contrast these
with the last line having a form of
'ziran' but not exactly 'self so'.

zhang 12
This is where the 'spirit' begins to take
some central importance in the neiye.
i spent two days thinking about one word
here - guan - "Government", translated in
line 4 and 5 as 'faculties'. roth translates it
'senses', which isn't quite it, as i see it,
it would be the government or constitution
of the body, your general health/faculties.

zhang 13
i left more words in this cut untranslated,
especially Jing, De, and Qi, meaning:
jing - the essence
De - Virtue
Qi - well, Qi, ch'i, Energy.
but some words, spirit/shen, heart/xin
i have translated. i'm just inconsistent
that way - dao ke dao.

zhang 14
this zhang is amazing, and amazingly
difficult to translate.
1-7 portray the 'dao is everywhere' concept
8-9 introduce the core teaching, that
dao is accessible only by what's in the Heart.
I did not translate Heart as Xin, although it
isn't quite heart either. it's heart/mind.
10-16 may be some of the most powerful
words I've read in daojia regarding the
centrality of what's in the heart/mind.
even to the point that the writer is
juxtaposing the conscious heart/mind
with the unconcious heart/mind, that
one, not sure which, controls the other.
17-23 show a descent from awareness
'mind'/yi through the embodiment
of ideas into actions and order.
i'm not sure this isn't more confucian
than daojia. there's definitely no wuwei
here, and sort of an exalting of order
and action.

zhang 15
i can't begin to express the beauty of the language here.

zhang 16
most of these lines are without pronouns.
hence, i could have said 'if i am able to...'
it's hard to tell whether 2 3 and 4 are
consequences of alignment and tranquility
or additional conditions to be met for 5 thru 8.
basically, 1-4 may set the stage for the
four 'greats' in 5-8.
in 4 and 6, there are references to
'great circle' and 'great square'.
roth puts 'of the heavens' and 'of the earth'
in brackets, but i simplified a bit here
in order to easily get the reference.
i still haven't made up my mind whether
it's better to say 'de' or 'Virtue'.
for some reason 'Virtue' in this zhang
feels better to me.
in 7 there's a word 'jian', which means
cheap or lowly, which i interpret as
abasing or humbling oneself.
in 12 there's a word 'qiong', which
means exhaust or poor, roth used 'exhaust',
but it doesn't seem to make sense in
context. draw from is a way to exhaust
something, which is what i used.
and the 'four directions' is an
idomatic expression, it actually says
the 'four ji' as in four ridgepoles or extremes.
we might say in archaic engllish,
'the four corners of the earth.'
this is all called 'inner virtue' neide.
what a concept! inner cultivation
results in inner virtue...
line 15 has 'ran er' so yet...
which together mean 'however'
in modern chinese. i felt this
combination made better sense,
yet these two last lines are
difficult at best to translate.

zhang 17
this starts, literally, 'all dao'
which can also be entirely dao.
to make sense of this in context
there are a set of six practices
that 'must' be one's discipline.
hence, i came back to
to be wholly (one with)
in accord with dao.
line 5 'excellence' is shan, good, good-at
i felt excellence a better fit,
the attribute of disciplined practice.
to say 'hold fast to the good'
would simply not fit.
Ultimate is 'ji' as in taiji, wuji.
the ridgepole.
once you know the taiji/wuji,
or in other words, the 'jis',
you return to daode.
very interesting thought.

zhang 18
line 1 could be entire heart exists in center.
but it seems to make better sense
in the light of earlier use of zhong/center,
to focus on the centered heart.
lines 2-8 are easy translations, quite literal.
lines 9-10 are quite close to literal,
line 10 first word is 'ji'
which might mean spreading hate or sickness
but in context, it seems better to say 'is louder than'
i suggest that ji is just a metaphor for being
disruptively loud. this would appear to
be an idiomatic axiom.
13 is a difficult translation.
16 and 18 have 'yi' - mind, idea, intention,
and given that 18 has both yi and xin,
i feel comfortable translating yi as mind
in most places here. Yi seems to be
the rational thinking mind.
the promises of all the world submitting
or listening are a bit hyperbolic here.
i think the writer is trying to get across
that by concentrating qi and aligning
the heart/mind, whatever an individual
can do naturally thereafter happens,
whereas forcing things without the
internal de/qi is simply a waste of
energy.

zhang 19
this is an amazing verse.
i don't have much to say about
the translation, for the most part
it came easily and is straightforward.
line 1 'like a spirit' is literally what it says.
then in lines 12 and 13, guishen
reappars 'spiritual being' - ghost spirit.
this is the disembodied jing in chapter 1.
in other words, no matter how much
one thinks about something,
you won't get it.
having qi concentrated from jing,
as would a spiritual being, one
simply understands stuff.
how does the human being do this?
aligning the body, calming the blood
(heart-beat) and breath, centering
the heart and mind through some
form of meditation (the neiye is
not specific as to what). this
will collect energy/qi, and align
the person's spirit with dao, attaining de.
in such a state, one can 'see the world'
without leaving his/her village.

zhang 20
the first four lines are causal pairs
of things resulting in something 'bad'
notice that 'knowledge' is in the
same class as worry, resentment, and disease.
the four 'bads' escalate to death.
it may be innocent enough to think and search,
but if you think about it, it will burn you up.
line 8 is quite funny, literally,
'no flea makes plans', which
also must be some sort of
idiomatic expression. seems more
appropriate to 'nip little things in the bud',
like several zhang of ddj.
lines 10 and 11 have dual negatives
in them, and it's easier to understand
in chinese than translate.
the idea is to eat and think moderately,
not as if (literally) you can't get enough.
line 13 literally says 'you will self realize'
it's a very powerful statement.

zhang 21 - 7-9
there's a theme here that i cannot quite translate
accurately. the theme is around the harmony
of dao, that its 'emotion' cannot be 'seen'
and it's 'note of chinese scale' cannot be 'completed'.
i'm sure red will see in this something about
sound meditation, and perhaps there is a
sense of how the harmony of dao isn't
quite like traditional sound or music.

the idea, however, conveys to me that there
is a futility in trying to see dao with one's eye's
or hear it with one's ears.
there is a translation of the chinese note
as a summons, summon it by a chance meeting
is an accurate translation. it also is similar
to some phrases in sunzi bingfa around summoning
information. in the end, i like where this landed.

fondness and resentment are also joy and anger
and were translated such in a previous zhang.
however, the joy here is really a fondness,
an attachment to people and things, not
the ecstasy found in meditation or 'true
happiness' whatever that may be.

given that fondness has its opposite in
resentment, and this anger is truly the
type directed toward others, then fondness
and resentment seem to translate better.

14 - make a determination - is actually
'make a plan', or lay it out on paper in
form of a diagram. i could argue that
daojia seems to be against making plans,
but in fact there are several zhang
in ddj around planning things when
they're small. so, instead of an elaborate
plan, which this isn't really talking about,
it's more about commitment.
a determination to do the type of
inner cultivation that rectifies the
dificiencies of one's training.

zhang 22 isn't hard to translate, i just
have a hard time with the premise
that one can use music and ritual
as a means of attaining stability.
that's a personal matter -- not that
i don't participate in ritual or music,
but rather whether such are consistent
with daojia. it really doesn't matter,
because in the context of these
writings, daojia and rujia are not
in conflict within neiye.

zhang 23 clearly is about balanced
diet between over- and undereating.
the problem lies in line 4, where the
words at the beginning, da she, is
really mean 'great absorbtion'.
all i can say is that it must be
idiomatic for undereating or great
fasting of some sort. the context
all clearly points to a mean between
overfilling and something else.
in line 15, the phrase begins with
'abalone', implying that when one
is in the presence of a food delicacy,
one has to be able to move away
from a type of sick envy. literally:
abalone - as a rule/result - sick envy - move.
in other words, don't let the lust for
fine food absorb you into a sick envy;
move away from it! All that is just
easier said move away from gluttony.
the last two lines might be better said,
but the translation here is pretty much
as written - this will cause (ci jiang).

zhang 24 is nearly a perfect
description of the result of neiye.
what is neiye? in my opinion,
any type of meditation where the
body maintains a relaxed alignment,
the chest expanded to allow for
deep breathing, an awareness yet
ability to detach from distraction.
to do this, one balances eating
sleeping, and the sense desires;
drawing upon Jing to cultivate
Qi, and Dao to cultivate De.
When you do this, when you're
with others you can be detached
and relaxed yet compassionate,
and when alone you can truly
enjoy yourself.

zhang 25 - so can all this be
trained? forced? hell no.
no pulling no pushing no
forcing at all. just let it flow
tranquility and serenity allow
'it' to stabilize. impatience,
literally, causes you to lose 'it'.

zhang 26 - ephemeral could
also be mysterious - it's kind of
like a dead spirit in the etymology
very temporary, but not necessarily
fleeting. i think 'ephemeral' captures
the idea.
line 6 hits impatience again.
key thought.
line 9 and 10 - those who 'attain',
dao pervades everything from
structure through hair. i could
ask 'how can one attain something
that is already everywhere?'.
yet there is no exact distinction
in neiye between dao/de/jing/qi.
whatever 'it' is, 'it' is forever
nameless, so these labels tend
not to be precise in their meaning
in the original, nor in translation.
the last two lines are poetic
without grammar
"Dao of tempering desire [resuts in]
10K things no trouble"

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 04:14 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huainanzi&oldid=258338033

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/Literature/Daoists/huainanzi.html

http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/ttx/ttx09.htm

Fatal Guillotine
11-20-2010, 04:18 PM
http://ezinearticles.com/?Balancing-Yin-and-Yang-in-Wuji&id=891913
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuji_%28philosophy%29

Fatal Guillotine
11-24-2010, 12:55 PM
bump

Fatal Guillotine
11-24-2010, 01:29 PM
the i - TJING is book of changes , my pops is deep with it, he throws 3coinz and al ,allwayz funny when i interupt itslike he in mad calculating mood, haha, yo ima try to get that tao-te-tjing

there more than utilizing the the coins

theirs also

the yarrow stalk oracle


1. Hold 50 yarrow stalks in your left hand.

2. put one aside on the table in front of you; its plays no further part in the divination. this stalk symbolizes the commencement of Tai Chi (ultimate beginning") from the void; it represents the state before Heaven & Earth were differentiated.

3. divide them into 2, symbolizing the two primary forces.divide the remaining 49 stalks into two bundles at random, one in each hand. these bundles symbolize Heaven & Earth. The left bundle represents Heaven, the right represents Earth.

4. Suspend one, symbolizing the 3 supreme powers. take one stalk from the right-hand bundle and put it between the ring finger and the little finger of your left hand. this stalk symbolizes humanity. heaven, earth, and humanity are considered the three supremes powers in the universe.

5. manipulate by 4, symbolizing 4 seasons. take 4 stalks at a time from your left-hand bundle and put them aside until there are 4 or fewer stalks remaining in your hand. these 4-stalk bundles symbolize 4 seasons.

6. return the remainders, symbolizing the intercalary month. Place the remaining stalks between the ring finger and the middle finger of your keft hand. this act symbolizes the intercalary month.

7.in 5 years there is another intercalation. take 4 stalks at a time from your right hand bundle and put them aside until there are 4 or fewer stalks remainingin your hand. place the remaining stalks between the middle finger and the index finger of your left hand. collect all the stalks between the fingers of your left hand. the sum should be either 5 or 9, Set these stalks aside.

Now, after the 4 operations (putting one stalk aside, dividing the remainig=ng stalks into two, removing 4 stalks at a time, and placing the remainders between fingers), the first process of change is completed. it takes 3 processes of change to get a yao or line, therefore the process will be repeated 2 more times, as below.


8. afterward the process is repeated.. Leaving the result of the result of the 1st process aside (either 5 or 9 stalks) repeat the four operations above with the remaining 40 or 44 stalks. this time the sum of the stalks remaining between the left fingers will be either 4 or 8. set these aside. now the second process of change is completed.


repeat the 4 operations a third time, using the remaining stalks agian, either 32, 36, or 40. after the final four operations, the sum of the remainder will again be either 4 or 8. set these stalks aside.

either 24, 28, 32 ,or 36 stalks will remain. hold these in your hand and take away 4 at a time, counting how many groups of 4 there are----either 6, 7, 8, or 9.

6 & 8, even numbers, indicate yin yao, seven and nine, odd numbers, indicate yang yao. in the system of the I Ching six is the symbol of greater yin, 8 lesser yin, nine is a symbol of greater yang; 7---lesser yang.

Fatal Guillotine
11-24-2010, 04:06 PM
i think one of the reasons i became interested was due to kung fu flicks :)

Fatal Guillotine
11-25-2010, 07:38 PM
* Yu Huang 玉皇 (Jade Emperor)
* Sanqing 三清 (Three Pure Ones)
* Fu Xi / Fu Hsi 伏羲
* Huangdi 黄帝 (Yellow Emperor)
* Baxian / Pa-hsien 八仙 (Eight Immortals)
* Guan Yu 关羽
* Xiwangmu 西王母 (Queen Mother of the West)
* Chang'e 嫦娥 (Goddess of the Moon)

pro.Graveface
11-26-2010, 03:06 AM
yo can i write "Tao, regonizing the Infinite Universe in the symbol of the Ying and the Yang, + and - , constantly in motion, love in creation by the merging of thiese, driven by Chi the infinite energy in life force forms, driven by Spirit in elements, driven on the path to explore the Self with Love in acceptance and understanding for All, Tao" ?

Fatal Guillotine
11-26-2010, 07:30 PM
yo can i write "Tao, regonizing the Infinite Universe in the symbol of the Ying and the Yang, + and - , constantly in motion, love in creation by the merging of thiese, driven by Chi the infinite energy in life force forms, driven by Spirit in elements, driven on the path to explore the Self with Love in acceptance and understanding for All, Tao" ?

huh, what are you trying to say?

WISELYSNIPES
11-27-2010, 06:19 AM
Dont read me and i wont read you.

Fatal Guillotine
11-27-2010, 11:27 AM
Dont read me and i wont read you.

what is your purpose for stating this?

pro.Graveface
11-28-2010, 05:11 AM
jus some linez that popped up in my head

WARPATH
11-28-2010, 04:05 PM
Thought this could explain it better than I could. Peace.

A Comparison Between Chinese Taoism and Native American Religious Tradition
By Gary R Varner
Last edited: Thursday, January 28, 2010
Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010
An except from the forthcoming book by Gary R. Varner, "Ancient Footprints."

There are many similarities between Chinese and Native
American spiritual belief and philosophy. While there is no
conclusive evidence available that can tie the two together we
can at least explore the possibility. It is important to understand
that there is not one “Indian” philosophy or belief. But many
tribes had similar traditions expressed in different ways. In this
comparison I will employ a simplification of these beliefs.
Taoism, the Chinese philosophy of perfect peace and the
man-nature harmony, is very similar to various Native American
traditions. Did a transfer of ideas result from early cross cultural
contact or did these traditions and beliefs originate
independently?

The concept of humankind co-existing with Nature and
thereby with the divine is an age old one and one shared
universally among indigenous peoples. But this concept was
never illustrated so simply and graphically until the Taoist and
Native American philosophy came into being.
Both philosophies have the same message: the binding unity
of humankind with the Earth.

Man is only able to survive with the Earth’s cooperation. The
Earth provides humankind with food, shelter and a meaningful
education about life. But the Earth must be cared for as well. It
is a give and take relationship.

To many, at first glance, Taoism seems contradictory. It is a
philosophy of opposites that Western man has difficulty in
grasping. However, it is only ambiguous in its simplicity.
The Tao states:

“That which shrinks
Must first expand.
That which fails
Must first be strong.
That which is cast down
Must first be raised.
Before receiving
There must be giving.
Ancient Footprints

“This is called perception of the nature of things. Soft and
weak overcome hard and strong.”

Hyemeyohst Storm, a modern Plains Indian, wrote of
perceiving:

“All the things of the universe wheel have spirit and life,
including the rivers, rooks, earth, sky, plants and animals. But it
is only man, of all the Beings of the Wheel, who is a determiner,
our determining spirit can be made whole only through the
learning of our harmony with all our brothers and sisters, and
with all the other spirits of the Universe. To do this we must
learn to seek and perceive. We must do this to find our place
within the medicine wheel.”

The concept of universality is a central theme in Taoist and
Native American thought. The Ying Yang principle of opposites
making up the whole is really just a cause and effect
relationship. Ying Yang is only a way of saying transformation.
The Chinese have a saying of “Ten thousand things—there is an
infinity of all created things. Dark to light, hate to love, rain to
give food.”

Ying Yang is comparable to the Indian “Cosmos” thought. All
things are because of the existence of other things. Cosmos is
all. Cosmos is God, time, and nature. The seasons and life cycles
are very much a part of the cosmos. The birth, death and rebirth
symbolized in cosmos is almost an exact re-phrasing of Ying
Yang.

Circular symbols are also important to both traditions. The
Sioux saying “The year is a circle around the earth” and the
Plains concept of “Universal Wheel” are similar to the Chinese
Ying Yang.

Similar are the ideas concerning the creator and heaven. In
Tao God is a universal, ruling power, a power personified only
through the wind and the mountains and in nature itself. A
similar concept among Native Americans.

Ceremony is also very important. In Tao the only way o the
Universal Good, called Li, is through ritual and ceremony. If the
ceremony is done with sincerity then everything goes as it
should. Among Native Americans ritual and ceremony is also
very important. Everything with consequence was accomplished
through ceremony such as puberty, naming children, birth, death
and curing. In both Native American and Taoism ceremony was
done for the honor of an individual or group or, more
importantly, to honor and placate the spirits.

To carry this concept further we realize in Tao that ceremony
is what separates humankind from animal kind. Ceremony is the
total essence of humanity. One must master it, and thereby Li,
to become totally human. The lack of ceremony equates one to a
subhuman level. Ceremony is a show of faith to both traditions.
Natural harmony is also a connection between Taoism and
Native Americans. Harmony with nature is to exist to the fullest.
The Indian could only survive by cooperating with the Mother
Earth.

Harmony to Taoists is given the following description:
1. Heart is with learning
2. Feet planted firmly on the ground (symbolizing stability)
3. No longer suffering from perplexity (symbolizing serenity)
4. Know the bidding of heaven (symbolizing renewed
perception)
5. Hear with a docile ear, and
6. Follow the dictates of the heart.

Through all of these, Tao asserts, the individual has achieved
harmony with rightness. The Indian would put it more simply: to
see, to understand natures interaction with man and to give back
to the Mother Earth what one has taken from it. Harmony is
simply a loving respect for all things.

In respect to the Divine there is a slight difference between
Taoist and Native American thought. In Tao “gods,” per se, do
not exist. Tao, the “thought,” is itself the creating force and the
universe exists because of the associated Ying Yang actionreaction
principle. Man is part of that creation, and the Tao
assets, there is no “god” but for a universal consciousness. In
contrast, most Native American traditions have conceived of a
Creator. The following Pima poem illustrated this general godhead
thought:

“I have made the Sun!
I have made the Sun!
Hurling it high
In the four directions
To the East I threw it
To run its appointed course”

The Aztec verse:

“The flowering tree stands in Tamoanchan:
There we were created, there he gave us being
There we wove the strands of our life,
He who gives life to everything”

To Native American’s the concept of “God” is a spirit that may
be found in any form, a spirit that resides everywhere. The Spirit
is, in this beautiful concept, everything from a rock to a soaring
eagle. In the Native American world all things have a direct
linkage to the “Spirit.” The eagle, for example, was a great omen
and deservedly so with its power and beauty.

Tradition itself is held in esteem by both Taoists and Native
Americans. Tradition is the order of things. It is an established ,
working way. In Tao, order is a longing for innocence which is
continually being sought. It allows no excess which would disrupt
its order.

Tradition is similar to harmony. The Tao would say “Knowing
harmony is constancy. Knowing constancy is enlightenment.” 41
To the Native American tradition is life. There is no greater
teacher than the ways and laws handed down from generation to
generation. The Indian has found that to break or lose traditional
ways and skills is to lose their unity, their livelihood and their
honor among each other.

Tradition follows harmony and the Taoist Li results from both.
They are one together with knowledge. The Tao states:
“The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It
cannot be ruled by interfering.”

This is truly a Native American concept as well. Cooperation
is an instinctive feature of Native American life.
Alfonso Ortiz, a doctorate in anthropology, stated before a
Native American symposium on “American Indian Philosophy”,
his observations on the Indian belief of non-interference with the
Earth:

“…I have never ceased to be impressed by…how difficult it is
to find a [Navajo] Hogan, how they are set off nicely in a little
pocket and blend right in with the landscape. Again, the
magnificent knowledge…”

Lao Tzu, a contemporary of Confucius and keeper of the
imperial Chinese archives in the sixth century, had a very simple
way of telling man that “progress” was destructive to order and
harmony. In the Tao, Lao Tzu said: “the further one goes, the
less one knows. Turning back is how the way moves.”

Taoism can be classified as “the way of the Universe…the
ordering principle behind all life.” To this the Native American
concept of cosmos is again comparable. To the Native American
the workings of the universe, nature, and humankind were all in
order and nothing could be justified that would upset this
delicate balance.

To most Native American’s every individual is his own
conscience and does what he/she believes is best. Individual
age was unimportant as everyone was believed capable of
rational thought. Parents never refused a reasonable request of
their children. Children were separate and equal to their parents
and other adults as long as they could demonstrate sound
reasoning. The Taoist saying “Who knows what is good or bad?”
applies here. No one can determine for another if their actions
are right or wrong as that determination belongs to the
individual.

The dominating theme of Native American religions is “at
oneness.” To know yourself, to know the Earth and the Earth’s
life-forms, to know that the cosmos was created for all life
equally. This is true in Taoism as well.

The philosophy of Taoism has been defined as the
“acceptance (of) what is in front of you without wanting the
situation to be other than it is. Study the natural order of things
and work with it rather than against it, for to try to change what
is only sets up resistence. Nature provides everything without
requiring payment or thanks, and also provides all without
discrimination—therefore let us present the same face to
everyone…we will come to appreciate the original meaning of the
word ‘understand’, which means to ‘stand under’. Te—which may
be translated as ‘virtue’ or ‘strength’—lies always in Tao—or
‘natural law.’”

To most traditional Native Americans the usage of spoken
language is a serious thing. Each word spoken reduces the power
in the speaker because words hold great power in themselves
and are taken as literal truths.

Throughout the Tao Te-Ching we find evidence of similar
concepts:

“He who boasts achieves nothing.
He who brags will not endure.”
“A good speaker makes no slips.”
“In speech, be true.”
“More words count less.”
“Great eloquence seems awkward. Stillness and tranquility
set things in order.”

To know the importance of the simple things we take for
granted is an important concept in both Taoist and Native
American thought. To live and abuse nature or man was rarely
heard of in Native American society. In effect, the Native
American is perhaps a more perfect practitioner of
Taoism than most Chinese.

The similarity of Native American and Taoist thought can be
illustrated in the following quotes:


“Interference has gradually caused Nature to turn her face.
When the sun rises and sets blood red, the people know that
Nature is out of balance.” (Hopi)

“The world is ruled by letting things take their course, it
cannot be ruled by interfering.” (Tao Te Ching)

“Through our ceremonies, it is possible to keep the natural
forces together.” (Hopi)

“Ceremony is all that is human. It is harmony with nature.”
(Tao Te-Ching)

Fatal Guillotine
11-28-2010, 04:13 PM
good comparison

i remembering reading some years ago the comparison on Sufism and Taoism

pro.Graveface
11-28-2010, 08:53 PM
this a great thread indeed, Peace! keep it comin,
ICHI

Fatal Guillotine
11-30-2010, 04:43 PM
does Taoism predate buddhism?

Lao Tzu and Gautama Buddha were supposed to have lived around the same time give or take a century or two, but many Taoists say that many of the practices that are part of what is called Taoism actually go back for several thousand years prior to Lao Tzu. How far the practices really go back is hard to say for certain now though. :) The practices of Taoism are mainly of Chinese origin, while Buddhism originated from somewhere in the vicinity of India.

pro.Graveface
12-01-2010, 01:59 PM
I think this had to do with the silk road

D.projectile
10-16-2012, 06:29 AM
dopeness

i appreciate the teaching on the three worms, boy

Urban_Journalz
10-18-2012, 12:22 PM
What is the history of Wudang Taoism...........

From the Zhou Dynasty to the Eastern Han Dynasty many Taoist Internal Alchemists and hermits longed for a secluded place deep in Mount Wudang for their practice of meditation and esoteric arts:

Yee Xee, the famous disciple of Lao Tzu, once practiced internal alchemy in First Heavenly Gate on Wudang. In the Tang and Song Dynasty, Taoism practice grew strong on Wudang; famous Taoist figures such as Yao Jian, Sun Si Miao, Lu Dong Bing, Guo Tian Wei, and Chen Tuan began their practice of Internal Alchemy in retreat on this sacred mountain.

Dai Meng, a famous army general in the Han Dymasty, left his military office and studied internal alchemy with his teacher on Wudang. Ma Ming Sheng, Yin Chang Sheng, widely-known alchemy practitioners in the Eastern Han Dynasty, once sought retreat here in Wudang to practice alchemy in company with the beautiful green mountains, lucid creeks and deep green bamboo forests.

Ever since the foundation of Taoism in China, Mt. Wudang has gradually became the most ideal location for Taoists activities and retreat practice in central China.

In the Wei-Jin South and North Dynasty, the Tao- practitioners who moved into Mt. Wudang increased in number. In the Tang and Song Dynasty, Wudang Taoism evolved into its peak development time, during which famous Taoist figures such as Yao Jian, Sun Si Miao, Lu Dong Bing, Guo Tian Wei, and Chen Tuan began to establish their hermitage house here for their undertakings of the practice of Taoist Internal Alchemy one after another. The Ming Dynasty anounced the peak period for development of Wudang Taoism, and Zhen Wu was respected as a God at the royal palace, and Zhang San feng, the famous Taoist and founder of Taiji on Mt. Wudang, was called upon to show up in the royal court.

SECTS OF WUDANG

Before the Northern Song Dynasty, there is no prominent sect division within Wudang Taoism. But common people like to divide the sects into two categories, one is Elixir and Caldron sect, another is Incantation sect. After the South Song Dynasty, they gradually evolved into the Quan Zhen sect, Zheng Yi sect, Five Dragon sect, Purity and Nothingness sect, and others. Though there are some difference existing among them; the mainstream inclined to seek a harmonization among all the sects.

QuanZhen Sect
In 1167, a Taoist from Shan'Xi, came and settled down in Mt. Wudang to establish the QuanZhan sect of Taoism. In 1275, Wang Si Zhen came and lodged in the Five Dragon temple to teach the ideas of the sect and his disciples once reached more than 100.

Upper Purity Sect
It was created in the Eastern Jin Dynasty. In 1141, Taoist Shun Ji Ren wandered into Mt. Wudang and settled down in the Five Dragon temple, teaching disciples and renovating the collapsed houses. Beacause he based his activity solely at this location, some people call the sect as “Upper Purity Five Dragon Sect.”

Purity and Nothingness Sect
This is the most influencial Taoism sect which originated from the Upper Purity sect. They practiced incantation and claimed all methods came from the Primeval Heaven God. In the Song and Yuan Dynasty this sect was once very populer in the south of China. The northern branch based their activity in Mt. Wudang and later their disciples increased to reach more than several hundred.

San Feng Sect
In the Ming Dynasty the famous Taoist Zhang San Feng came to settle down in Mt.Wudang. Zhang San Feng began to set up San Feng sect who proposed the combination of three religion (Buddhism, Taoism and Confuciusism), cultivation of self for the benefit of the others and esteeming Zhen Wu as the highest God. He is also looked at as the founder of Taiji Quan.

Dragon Gate Sect
Qiu Chu Ji, the disciple of Wang Cong Yang, created the sect. In 1669 Wang Chang Yue, the resurgence successor of Dragon Gate sect, began his journey southward with his disciples from Beijing and set up to offer his teachings in Yu Xu Temple in Wudang. Ever since then the Dragon Gate sect has become the mainstream of Wudang Taoism and many Taoists are disciples of this sect. In the Qing Dynasty, the Dragon Gate sect became more and more popular, and is the main branch of Taoism found in China today.

Xuan Wu Sect
In the Yong Le Period of Ming Dynasty (1413) the emperor ordered the start of a very big construction project in Mt. Wudang. Zhang Yu Qing,one Taoist from the Zheng Yi sect, acted upon the order and called more than four hundred Taoists from nearby provinces and brought them to Mt. Wudang. All these Taoist regarded Zhen Wu as the common God and respected Zhang San Feng as their founder. Therefore, people called them Zhen Wu Xuan Wu sect. In 1989, by a common understanding, the Taoism Association of Wudang agreed to change the name of the sect as “Wudang Xuan Wu sect.”

Lang Mei Sect
It is the typical local sect in Wudnag area. In 1412, Taoist Priest Shun Bi Yun who lived in the Southern Cave Temple created the sect. His disciple called him the Pure Green Grand Master.

Thanks for this post b. It's a great help because I'm actually incorporating a lot of Daoist principles into my daily life and I also find that they are further extensions of what I already hold dear. Some say that Sun-Tzu incorporated Daoist philosophy into his classic, "The Art of War". I can definitely see similarities there as well. The main purpose of The Tao, I believe, is to enter into complete harmony with creation itself. No easy task and most won't get further than reading a few passages on the subject. You seem to have the drive though and I wish you success on your journey.

Fatal Guillotine
10-26-2012, 08:20 AM
as it relates to the post i made on I Kuan Tao

As It Pertains to the above post

I Kuan Tao -(pronounce- eye-kwan-dao) was a religious sect was banned in Taiwan, however it was unbanned in '87 and developed to combine five religions into one (in no particular order):

Islam
Christianity
Buddhism
Confucianism
Taoism

I Kuan Tao also had its origins dating back to the Ming Dynasty Period(mid)

Urban_Journalz
10-27-2012, 07:40 AM
The concept of prolonging one's years through gathering and refining the qi/chi is the most interesting part of Taoism to me.

pro.Graveface
10-28-2012, 04:57 PM
Daoism any1?
Taoism comes from da mountanz.