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Mic Tyson
06-09-2008, 09:10 PM
The Hebrew People of the Bible What Color are They?
By Chawviv ben Yisrael


For years, people of the world have been led to believe that the people of the bible were white people, when in fact they were black. Hollywood, one of the many contributing factors to this cause, isn't innocent to this either, they take the front line for the ranks of deception. We the people of the world should not continue to let this occur because the ones to be affected by this will be the children of the future.

Movies, television and some white people portray the people of the bible as white. What should it matter, if they are white or black. Should it matter, if they are white or black? If I were white, I'd say no, and if this was an ideal world and if all affluent people looked like me. But we are living in a world of lies and deception and when the children's minds develop off of the deception that is being told and taught, then the truth must be brought to the forefront. Also, I am not white and the more affluent doesn't look like me.

People of color are more vulnerable and are more easily to believe what is being told to them, especially when their history has been erased from their minds, and it is constantly battered in their heads through their educational systems, television, and movie theaters. Well, the time has come for the truth to be told. And what is that truth? That the people of the bible are people of color.

Before I can go forward, I need to go backwards into some history. Lets look at the people of the bible, who had who.

Genesis 10:2-4, Japheth begot Gomer (*Galatians) (**Germany, Crimea, Cambria, Celts), Magog (*Scythians) (**Georgia, Scythians), Madai (*Medes), Javan (*Grecians), Tubal (*Iberes), Meshech (**Moscow), and Tiras. Gomer begot Ashkenaz (*Rheginians) (**Germany, Saxons, Scandavia), Riphath, and Togarmah. Javan begot Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim (**Cyprus) (Abraham ibn Ezra said the Romans were descended from Kittim), and Dodanim. (*denotes The Complete Works of Josephus. **denotes The table of the Nations off the Web)

Genesis 10:6-18, Ham begot Cush (*Ethiopians), Mizraim (*Egypt), Phut (*Libya), and Canaan. Cush begot Nimrod, Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah. Raamah begot Sheba and Dedan. Mizraim begot Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, Pathrusim, Casluhim, and Caphtorim. Canaan begot Sidon, Heth, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgasites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathite.

Genesis 10:22-29, Shem begot Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad (*Chaldeans), Lud, and Aram. Aram begot Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash. Arphaxad begot Salah. Salah begot Eber. Eber begot Peleg (from here comes the family of Abraham) and Joktan. Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab
.
And Noah and his wife created Japheth, Ham, and Shem.

After the dispersion of the people by God at the tower of Babel, each went into their own region of the world. Japheth and his family went into Europe. Shem and Ham stayed in the area, so to say.

Mizraim (Egypt) and some of his family went into a land now called Africa, but it wasn't called Africa then. Cush (Ethiopia) had a very large area which even went into what is now called Middle East. Remember, Nimrod was a Cushite and the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Around 1913BCE, there was a famine in the land. And due to the famine, Abram (Abraham) and his wife Sarai journeyed to the land of Egypt. But before he entered the land of Egypt he said to Sarai, "Behold now, I know that you art a fair woman to look upon. And it will come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they will say: This is his wife; and they will kill me, but thee they will keep alive."

Now the incident came to pass, but Rabbi Shelomoh Yitschaki, Solomon ben Isaac, also known as Rashi, said in his commentaries, reference behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman, "Knowing that you are beautiful, I realize that your beauty is now a source of danger, particularly since the Egyptians are dark-skinned and ugly." Besides this being a ridiculous comment, the point that I am trying to point out is the fact that the Rabbi has stated that the Egyptians were people of color. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines black as, "Having a dark skin . . . " and "a person belonging to a dark skinned race . .

. " This may seem irrelevant now, but this quote by Rashi is going to back fire on him. Stick with me. Also at least they have finally admitted that the Egyptians were people of color.

Next, Joseph, one of the twelve sons of Jacob, from the twelve tribes of Israel, was sold to some Ishmaelites by his brothers out of anger. The Ishmaelites took Joseph into Egypt and sold him to the Egyptians. Later a famine had struck the land of Egypt and Canaan and according to the Bible all the lands and was very devastating. Jacob instructed several of his sons to go into Egypt and buy food because Egypt had enough to sell.

When the brothers of Joseph, the sons of Jacob had entered the land of Egypt, they were told to see a particular person. Not knowing oh the individual was they were going to see, when they faced him, they didn't recognize him, but Joseph recognized them. If Joseph is supposed to be a white person, and he was in the mist of black people, don't you think his brothers would have recognized him immediately. Why didn't his brothers recognize him immediately? Could it have been due to him being black amongst black people and he blended in? A white person definitely would have been able to be pointed out if he was amongst black slaves during slavery time. Don't you think?

Next, while the Israelites were living in the land of Egypt, Pharaoh had commanded for all the Israelite males to be exterminated. Now during this time, a couple from the Israelite people had borne a son, and they had hid him for three months. When they couldn't hide him no longer, she put the child into a basket and placed it among the reeds by the bank of the Nile. The daughter of Pharaoh, wanting to bathe in the Nile, went to the banks and saw the basket among the reeds and when she opened the basket she saw a baby in it. Being that the baby was very young, she instructed a Hebrew family, coincidently the baby's mother, to nurse the child until he was weaned. Once he was weaned, she brought the boy to her father and asked if she could keep the child, and her father said yes. Also, the baby was named Moses.

Remembering that the Egyptians were black, if Moses was white and knowing that Pharaoh had issued a decree to kill all the Hebrew males, wouldn't he have killed Moses immediately when she brought this supposedly white child into her father's house? Also, if he was white, do you think Pharaoh's daughter would have even let the child live when she found him by the Nile? Obviously we must say no.

Finally, Moses lived amongst the Egyptians for years and one day when he saw an Egyptian abusing a Hebrew, he came to the aide of the Hebrew and killed the Egyptian. Knowing that the word would get out and back to Pharaoh, he fled Egypt and went to the land of Midian. Upon entering Midian he came to the aide of some women of the land and helped them. They were very grateful and ran back and told their father that an "Egyptian" saved them.

Again, if he was mistaking for an Egyptian, and knowing that the Egyptians are supposedly dark-skinned and ugly, does this make Moses dark-skinned and ugly too? This is where people need to watch what they say. It may come back to haunt you.

What I have presented here, which is merely speculation. The only proof that I have given where someone has said the Egyptians where black was by the Rabbi. So let me notegive more facts for you to think about.

Herodotus (484? -425? BC) was one of the most widely traveled people of his time. His writings show his interest in both history and geography. Herodotus was born in Halicarnassus, a Greek colony in Asia Minor. He was a frequent visitor to Athens, he was a close friend of Sophocles. He also journeyed to the western shores of the Black Sea, to southern Italy and Egypt, and to the Asian cities of Tyre, Babylon, Ecbatana, Nineveh, and Susa, says the Compton's Interactive encyclopedia.

During his travels, Herodotus kept a journal of his activities. The journal was later translated, and in one of his entries, he wrote the following about the Egyptians or to be more exact the natives:

" ...it is certain that the natives of the country are black . . . ; there can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptians race . . . I made this inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them . . . My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair . . . "

Now, what I have done here is give a positive identification of the Egyptians. And by me doing this and showing that the Israelites always got mistaken for them, prove that they both, the Egyptians and the Israelites were black people.

You may still have your doubts and desire more evidence before you will acknowledge that the Bibilical Israelites were a black people. So, allow me to continue.
Solomon Grayzel, a white Jewish historian, wrote in his book, A History of the Jews, in the ninth century CE (AD), a man appeared in north Africa among the Hebrews there, his name was Eldad from the tribe of Dan, he was a danite. They said he spoke a strange language and told them a weird story. He said the members of his tribe had escaped Israel after Sennacherib had conquered Israel, and other Hebrews from other tribes also live in the land from where he came from. He told the Hebrews in the northern part of Africa all the law that his people follow, which was given to his tribe by tradition from Moses successor Joshua ben Nun. The Hebrews of the northern part of Africa at first was in question about his story, but threw further examine by the Gaon, he assured the northern African Hebrews the story was legitimate.

I have mentioned this story because Mr Grayzel went on to say, "Some modern scholars argue that Eldad was an Ethiopian Jew, a descendant of the ancient colony which, in the days of Ezra, lived on the southern border of Egypt . . . " If you know your history, and if you know what color the Ethiopian Jews are, then you have already come to the conclusion that Eldad the Danite, from the tribe of Dan, one of the twelve tribes of Israel was a black man.

Another story that I want to tell you about is in a book entitled "The Hope of Israel," by Menasseh ben Israel which was published 1652. In it speaks of an incident that occurred with a traveler named Antonio de Montezinos. It says upon Montezinos return from the Americas, it is sufficient here to know that he has found the descendants of the lost ten tribes. At this point, I am going to quote the letter from Menasseh ben Israel to John Dury concerning what he said. The letter was dated 25 November 1649 and it reads, "Curiously enough, in the sixteenth century one Antonio Montesino of Lima stated, according to the writings of Luis Lopez, Bishop of Quito, that The Indians of the islands and mainland of the Indies . . . are Hebrews descended from the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel'. And he did say further in his book, "that they keepe their true religion, as hoping to returne again into the Holy land in due time."

People, if this isn't enough proof as to say what color the Hebrews were, then you are truly in a state of denial.

Also, as for a pictorial concerning the children of Israel. In a documentary on the Art & Entertainment channel, titled In Search of The Ten Commandments, it showed an ancient hieroglyphic picture of the Israelites while they were slaves in Egypt, and they were black. They looked just like the Egyptians. So I can see why Moses was mistaken for an Egyptian, and why Joseph wasn't recognized by his brothers.

Finally, I am going to list three passages from the bible identifying the color of the Israelites. They are:
Lamentation 4:8, Their visage (face) is blacker than coal
Lamentation 5:10, Our skin was black like an oven . . .
; And Job 30:30, My skin is black upon me . . .

In this document, I have given enough information proving that the Hebrews are black people. But I say to you all, this isn't enough. Teach your children the truth!

BornPower
06-09-2008, 09:14 PM
Preach!!!

Trismegistos
06-10-2008, 12:29 AM
They were black.

And the person that John spoke to in the first chapter of Revelation was light black (burnished bronze).

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-10-2008, 12:44 AM
Black people have been brainwashed into thinking that somehow it is a source of pride that Hebrews "were black". The fact of the matter is they were not. All philosophies tied to claiming so are based on a lack of self esteem, and being opressed. I have had many face to face conversations with Black Hebrew Israelites and they are pseudo educated, meaning they ACT like they are educated, but in fact they are only filled with formulaic responses, nit picked verses, and overbearing rhetoric when supposedly having a conversation. They argue in groups of three or more, two reading verses and one spouting non-sensical rhetoric. When you point out facts they wash em out with "scripture"- they claim King James- the Scottish King of England- was black, and so was Shakespeare. These people are idiots...

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-10-2008, 12:47 AM
They were black.

And the person that John spoke to in the first chapter of Revelation was light black (burnished bronze).

-Light black is not a color. Light black is grey. Burnished bronze is the color of ANYONE who lives in a desert climate. People spend too much time paying attention to colors, and too little time on substance...

Koolish
06-10-2008, 02:04 AM
what we have to realize is that a group of people will be portrayed to look the same as the group that interprets them. in africa Jesus is a black man.

the reason biblical figures are portrayed as white in the western world is because white people who only knew about white people had a hard time being ethnically accurate.

Trismegistos
06-10-2008, 03:25 AM
-Light black is not a color. Light black is grey. Burnished bronze is the color of ANYONE who lives in a desert climate. People spend too much time paying attention to colors, and too little time on substance...

Ok, that person has a skin tone similar to an african american yet it is a lighter tone than the darkest that I have seen.

I've lived in a desert climate and my skin is not burnished bronze.

I agree that people get too caught up in race though, it still does not eliminate the fact that a reference to skin tone was made.

Esquire
06-10-2008, 03:32 AM
They were black.

And the person that John spoke to in the first chapter of Revelation was light black (burnished bronze).

It could have meant he had a "dark tan", you could'nt distinguish going by that alone.

Trismegistos
06-10-2008, 03:36 AM
Black people have been brainwashed into thinking that somehow it is a source of pride that Hebrews "were black". The fact of the matter is they were not. All philosophies tied to claiming so are based on a lack of self esteem, and being opressed. I have had many face to face conversations with Black Hebrew Israelites and they are pseudo educated, meaning they ACT like they are educated, but in fact they are only filled with formulaic responses, nit picked verses, and overbearing rhetoric when supposedly having a conversation. They argue in groups of three or more, two reading verses and one spouting non-sensical rhetoric. When you point out facts they wash em out with "scripture"- they claim King James- the Scottish King of England- was black, and so was Shakespeare. These people are idiots...

I don't necessarily agree with your argument on that one. I am white and yet believe that the original Israelites were black.

I do not have low self-esteem due to my colour, nor have I been oppressed, nor have I been exposed to being brainwashed into believing that the original Israelites were black.

Trismegistos
06-10-2008, 03:39 AM
It could have meant he had a "dark tan", you could'nt distinguish going by that alone.

A very dark tan!

Agreed, there are other things to distinguish that person by. There were a number of other descriptions used to describe the same person. I also used the other elements to identify that person.

diggy
06-10-2008, 02:39 PM
Mic Tyson, keep bringing the facts!

diggy
06-10-2008, 02:45 PM
Black people have been brainwashed into thinking that somehow it is a source of pride that Hebrews "were black". The fact of the matter is they were not.

O.K., show some facts then (if u have any!).

All philosophies tied to claiming so are based on a lack of self esteem, and being opressed.

U do not know what u are talking about. The white man has for centuries lied about the black man's place in history. Black people are telling the world our tru place, origins, and contributions in history to replace the lies with truth. Do u believe in truth, or do u feel comfort in hearing and believing lies?

LORD NOSE
06-10-2008, 02:50 PM
Remembering that the Egyptians were black, if Moses was white and knowing that Pharaoh had issued a decree to kill all the Hebrew males, wouldn't he have killed Moses immediately when she brought this supposedly white child into her father's house? Also, if he was white, do you think Pharaoh's daughter would have even let the child live when she found him by the Nile? Obviously we must say no.



Exodus 4:6-7

6 Then the LORD said, "Put your hand inside your cloak." So Moses put his hand into his cloak, and when he took it out, it was leprous, [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=4&version=31#fen-NIV-1608a)] like snow. 7 "Now put it back into your cloak," he said. So Moses put his hand back into his cloak, and when he took it out, it was restored, like the rest of his flesh.


Numbers 12:9-11


9 The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them.
10 When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam—leprous, [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=4&chapter=12&verse=9&end_verse=11&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-4070a)] like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy; 11 and he said to Moses, "Please, my lord, do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed.






Leviticus 13:30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&verse=30&version=31&context=verse)
the priest is to examine the sore, and if it appears to be more than skin deep and the hair in it is yellow and thin, the priest shall pronounce that person unclean; it is an itch, an infectious disease of the head or chin.
Leviticus 13:29-31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&verse=29&end_verse=31&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Leviticus 13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




Leviticus 13:32 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&verse=32&version=31&context=verse)
On the seventh day the priest is to examine the sore, and if the itch has not spread and there is no yellow hair in it and it does not appear to be more than skin deep,
Leviticus 13:31-33 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&verse=31&end_verse=33&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Leviticus 13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




Leviticus 13:36 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&verse=36&version=31&context=verse)
the priest is to examine him, and if the itch has spread in the skin, the priest does not need to look for yellow hair; the person is unclean.
Leviticus 13:35-37 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&verse=35&end_verse=37&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Leviticus 13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=13&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)

Mic Tyson
06-10-2008, 03:18 PM
ill post something that i did in a different thread regarding to the many passages in the bible that prove who the real hebrews are

* THE TRANS -ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE. (Deut 28:68)
* HIGH PRISON POPULATION. (Isaiah 42:22)
* A SICK AND DISEASED STRICKEN PEOPLE. (Deut 28: 59-61)
* SUFFERING FROM MENTAL ILLNESS BECAUSE OF WHAT IS SEEN. (Deut 28:28,34)
* CHILDREN TAKEN AWAY AND GIVEN TO OTHER PEOPLE. (Deut 28:32)
* EVERY RACIAL GROUP RUNNING SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES IN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS. (Deut 28:43-44)
* SCATTERED THROUGHOUT ALL NATIONS. (Deut 28:25, 64 - Luke 21:24)
* NOT BEING ABLE TO STAND AGAINST THEIR ENEMIES. (Leviticus 26:37-38. Deut 28:25)
* HAVING NO POWER, ALWAYS ROBBED AND SPOILED. (Deut 28:29)
* CALLED RACIST NAMES INSTEAD OF REFERRED TO BY TRUE IDENTITY. (Deut 28:37)
* YOUNG MEN STANDING ON STREET CORNERS GOING WILD. (Isaiah 51:20)
* HAVING MANY PLACES OF WORSHIP ON EVERY STREET CORNER. (Ezekiel 16:24-25)
* FEARFUL FOR LIFE WITHOUT ASSURANCE OF LIFE. Deut 28:64-66)
* LYNCHING AND BEING BURNED ALIVE BY THE ENEMY.(Deut 28:22)
* TEENAGE GANGS RUNNING BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS, MANY CORRUPT ELECTED OFFICIALS AND LEADERS. (Isaiah 3:12)


If you don't think this is true, show me another race that the things above has happened to.

Black people fit these prophecies the most out of any race and no race comes close to anything black people have. No race has had all of these things happen to them

TSA
06-10-2008, 04:59 PM
what we have to realize is that a group of people will be portrayed to look the same as the group that interprets them. in africa Jesus is a black man.

the reason biblical figures are portrayed as white in the western world is because white people who only knew about white people had a hard time being ethnically accurate.
word.

ppl won't let it go. White people started a trend of race washing history and it's not gonna end cause it fills to good for those that needed it to fill person voids of not feeling personally important

also, black thought and philosophy is trapped in a horrible, unproductive cycle of being race oriented, and finding meanings and importance in black people as opposed to being free from race and it's stupidity and instead focusing on humanity like confucious, buddah, aristole, socrates and countless philosophers with black skin prior to imperialism and slavery.


you know the book The Prince. It's a copy of a document written by black africans, the essential idea that is. and the book wasn't focused on how to be a better black prince or how princes in every civilization was black, it was about being a good leader, and was so good that europeans later copied it and wrote their own.

TSA
06-10-2008, 05:07 PM
ill post something that i did in a different thread regarding to the many passages in the bible that prove who the real hebrews are

* THE TRANS -ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE. (Deut 28:68)
white people, see history of Georgia
* HIGH PRISON POPULATION. (Isaiah 42:22)
white people, see being the culture that had prisons to begin with and thus first to fill them
* A SICK AND DISEASED STRICKEN PEOPLE. (Deut 28: 59-61)
white people, see black plague, worst plague ever
* SUFFERING FROM MENTAL ILLNESS BECAUSE OF WHAT IS SEEN. (Deut 28:28,34)
white people, anyone really, but ill just say white ppl
* CHILDREN TAKEN AWAY AND GIVEN TO OTHER PEOPLE. (Deut 28:32)
white people, happens everyday
* EVERY RACIAL GROUP RUNNING SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES IN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS. (Deut 28:43-44)
white people, run successful businesses in black neighborhood, and blacks fun successful businesses in white neighborhoods
* SCATTERED THROUGHOUT ALL NATIONS. (Deut 28:25, 64 - Luke 21:24)
white people, more so then black ppl
* NOT BEING ABLE TO STAND AGAINST THEIR ENEMIES. (Leviticus 26:37-38. Deut 28:25)
black people have stood against their enemies countlessly, this is a really pathetic way to look at an entire race. but i'll just say Poland as my white ppl example, they never win.
* HAVING NO POWER, ALWAYS ROBBED AND SPOILED. (Deut 28:29)
Poor white ppl
* CALLED RACIST NAMES INSTEAD OF REFERRED TO BY TRUE IDENTITY. (Deut 28:37)
everybody, i'll just say white ppl again cause it's not like it doesn't happen to them, see KTL for more
* YOUNG MEN STANDING ON STREET CORNERS GOING WILD. (Isaiah 51:20)
White people, the irish were the first street gangs in america
* HAVING MANY PLACES OF WORSHIP ON EVERY STREET CORNER. (Ezekiel 16:24-25)
white people
* FEARFUL FOR LIFE WITHOUT ASSURANCE OF LIFE. Deut 28:64-66)
everybody, but i'll say white people
* LYNCHING AND BEING BURNED ALIVE BY THE ENEMY.(Deut 28:22)
more whites have been lynched and burnt alive by the enemy then blacks, so i'll say white women
* TEENAGE GANGS RUNNING BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS, MANY CORRUPT ELECTED OFFICIALS AND LEADERS. (Isaiah 3:12)
white people



basically white polish women are what the bible is about.

all we do is spark mad izm

V4D3R
06-10-2008, 05:42 PM
http://i28.tinypic.com/21ada4x.jpg

Mic Tyson
06-10-2008, 05:45 PM
TSA u sure love white ppl

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-10-2008, 09:16 PM
Ok, that person has a skin tone similar to an african american yet it is a lighter tone than the darkest that I have seen.

I've lived in a desert climate and my skin is not burnished bronze.

I agree that people get too caught up in race though, it still does not eliminate the fact that a reference to skin tone was made.

-Have you ever looked at an Arab? The ancient Hebrews (and up until the time of Jesus when they were mixed with Mediterraneans and other races) were Semitic just as modern Hebrews are. Arabs are dark- some as dark as the darkest Africans- yet they are not "black" in the sense that they are not of sub-Saharan African decent. Indians in general are dark, and some as dark as the darkest Africans, but they have straight hair.

Dark skin does not make you black, and being Hebrew does not make you special...

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-10-2008, 09:39 PM
I don't necessarily agree with your argument on that one. I am white and yet believe that the original Israelites were black.

I do not have low self-esteem due to my colour, nor have I been oppressed, nor have I been exposed to being brainwashed into believing that the original Israelites were black.

-Noone is denying that the Hebrews were dark, brown, tanned, and light brown. To say "black" in general is accepted as saying "of African decent". To say the Hebrews were of African decent- especially basing these theories on the bible as the Black Hebrew Israelites do- is to affirm some aspects of the bible, while denying actual factual historical aspects- like the fact that the Hebrews are ancient decendants of Iraq- check, Abraham migrated to Canaan from Ur of the Chaldeans (Ur is the site of ancient Babylon and is described as being between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, also where the Garden of Eden is supposed to be located- the site of modern Baghdad).

To say the Hebrews were black is to deny the fact that some 85% of the ancient peoples mentioned in the Old Testament were some kind of "colored" as the white folk would say. "Colored" does not signify "of African decent"...

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-10-2008, 10:06 PM
O.K., show some facts then (if u have any!).

-Do I need to show facts- or can it be logically accepted as common knowledge- that the Hebrews were Semitic? Compare them to other Semitic peoples, and tell me they are "of African decent". They are not- yet they are of color...

U do not know what u are talking about. The white man has for centuries lied about the black man's place in history. Black people are telling the world our tru place, origins, and contributions in history to replace the lies with truth. Do u believe in truth, or do u feel comfort in hearing and believing lies?

-Bro I am from Loiza, Puerto Rico- don't talk to me about pride, comfort, and knowing my place in history. My hometown still upholds the traditions of our African ancestors while most people who talk of "black Hebrews" only know some "swahili" and "kwanzaa" because they've lost their original culture. I don't have to be convinced to be proud of my Africanness because I am supposedly a decendant of some other culture in which I have no interest or genetic ties to. I have sufficient pride in my being black because I am of Nigerian/Yoruban decent, rather than lying to my DNA because I attribute some kind of special place in history, religion, or logic to Hebrews over ANY African culture.

This is the basic problem with Judaism and Christianity- they apply to God traits of racism, favoritism, and childish carnal vengeance that defeats the purpose of believing in a higher being. My God is not an idiot, and much less is he a little boy on the internet to be worrying about what color the Hebrews were, or wether they are of African decent.

These are the same idiots who claim Cleopatra- a Ptolemeic Pharaoh and direct decendant of Greek/Macedonian Kings and Generals- was black, even when the Egyptians themselves were not! What pride is there for people of African decent to believe that this whore was of our blood?

These are the same people that claim that John Hanson- the first man elected President of a loosely formed confederation of states in America- was black, and was the first President of the US (both untrue). What pride is there for people of African decent to believe that this dickhead who had slaves, ran a racist government that kept blacks oppressed for hundreds of years after his death, and barely gets any mention in history books was of our blood???

There are the same fools that would have you believe that King James I- King of Scotland, King of England, first King of the United Kingdom- another racist pig, a religious extremist who oppressed dissenters and sanctioned the rule of intolerant clerics, and writer of the most biased translation of the bible in existence (though eloquently poetic when compared to most others- hence his association with Shakespeare) was black??? Why would you be proud to be anything like these fuckers?

Fuck that- I'm Mangani. I grew up climbing palm trees for coconuts, snorkeling for lobster, conch, and fish with harpoons n shit, going fishing at 3am until 9 or 10am, digging for clams and crabs in the mangroves, etc. I don't care if you call me a savage, or a king, or a god- I take more pride in being me than in being anything anybody else has been or done. You ignore the facts because you lack this pride in your self, and in your people. Your people have done enough to earn their place in history- even by the "white man's" telling of it...

diggy
06-10-2008, 10:25 PM
-Noone is denying that the Hebrews were dark, brown, tanned, and light brown. To say "black" in general is accepted as saying "of African decent". To say the Hebrews were of African decent- especially basing these theories on the bible as the Black Hebrew Israelites do- is to affirm some aspects of the bible, while denying actual factual historical aspects- like the fact that the Hebrews are ancient decendants of Iraq- check, Abraham migrated to Canaan from Ur of the Chaldeans (Ur is the site of ancient Babylon and is described as being between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, also where the Garden of Eden is supposed to be located- the site of modern Baghdad).

To say the Hebrews were black is to deny the fact that some 85% of the ancient peoples mentioned in the Old Testament were some kind of "colored" as the white folk would say. "Colored" does not signify "of African decent"...

The parts I've highlighted are correct.

Historians agree that the ancient inhabitants of Iraq were black.

Abraham is an ancient inhabitant of Iraq.

Now if I add your statement of "the Hebrews are ancient decendents of Iraq..."

...That would mean they are black.

Correct?





Now on some otha shit:

...regardless of the physical appearance of the present day descendants of the ancient Phoenicians, recent genetic research in the Middle East and North Africa seems to confirm the indigenous African origin of their ancient ‘ethiopic’ forbearers.


In the year 2004 the national Geographic reported that two or more “African” chromosome groups (M89 & M172) had been found in the populations of today’s “Phoenicians” (people living from Gaza to Turkey). (5)


The first chromosome from continental Africa (M89) dates back to about 45,000 years ago. This would match an initial grand migration of populations out of Africa into the Middle East and Asia. The second is a more recent African marker which is called M172, and that dates back to just 12,000 years ago; which could lend support to the tradition of secondary waves of migration from the Red Sea area of Africa to the Levant...


...However, recent archeological discoveries have shown that for the most part the ‘Canaanites’ and the ‘Phoenicians’ constituted a single nation. For that reason it should be made very clear that the ancient Canaanites and the people who are called Phoenicians were essentially one and the same Afro-Asiatic people.


...For the greater part of their history, the Phoenician Kena’ani were very closely allied to Egypt. For one thing they both seemed to have originated from the same part of the African continent. In many ways therefore, it was a fraternal alliance with a record of contact stretching back to the earliest beginnings of both societies...


...According to Egyptian traditions the first Egyptians called themselves ‘Anu’ or ‘Ani’. They indicated they were originally a colony of Kushites (i.e. ‘ethiops’) from southern Nubia (Sudan) who migrated north down the Nile River Valley to the delta region with their cattle...



...“Eur-ope” translates from Greek as “broad-face”. Some would argue this is additional proof of her ‘ethi-opic’ or African connections since broad faces are hardly a common feature among people of so-called Semitic, Indo-Scythian, or Caucasian origin...



Blacks are the originators...


http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/black-africans-of-ancient-mediterranean-part-1-across-the-river-by-dr-anu-mauro/

diggy
06-10-2008, 10:40 PM
-Do I need to show facts- or can it be logically accepted as common knowledge- that the Hebrews were Semitic? Compare them to other Semitic peoples, and tell me they are "of African decent". They are not- yet they are of color...

You speak with no evidence. Speaking of common knowledge, are u aware of the fact that it was once "common knowledge" that "the earth is flat"?

I have already provided a statement and a link prooving the ancient Hebrews were black!!!

You seem to not want to accept the truth.

Your mind has been effectively and thoroughly "whitewashed".

-Bro I am from Loiza, Puerto Rico- don't talk to me about pride, comfort, and knowing my place in history. My hometown still upholds the traditions of our African ancestors while most people who talk of "black Hebrews" only know some "swahili" and "kwanzaa" because they've lost their original culture. I don't have to be convinced to be proud of my Africanness because I am supposedly a decendant of some other culture in which I have no interest or genetic ties to. I have sufficient pride in my being black because I am of Nigerian/Yoruban decent, rather than lying to my DNA because I attribute some kind of special place in history, religion, or logic to Hebrews over ANY African culture.

When did I mention pride and comfort?

Why are u so defensive and telling me your ethnic backgrounds?

This is the basic problem with Judaism and Christianity- they apply to God traits of racism, favoritism, and childish carnal vengeance that defeats the purpose of believing in a higher being. My God is not an idiot, and much less is he a little boy on the internet to be worrying about what color the Hebrews were, or wether they are of African decent.

How did God and religion get into this?

These are the same idiots who claim Cleopatra- a Ptolemeic Pharaoh and direct decendant of Greek/Macedonian Kings and Generals- was black, even when the Egyptians themselves were not! What pride is there for people of African decent to believe that this whore was of our blood?

Yes there was a time when the Euro-savages invaded Egypt, but the original inhabitants were black:

According to Egyptian traditions the first Egyptians called themselves ‘Anu’ or ‘Ani’. They indicated they were originally a colony of Kushites (i.e. ‘ethiops’) from southern Nubia (Sudan) who migrated north down the Nile River Valley to the delta region with their cattle.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/black-africans-of-ancient-mediterranean-part-1-across-the-river-by-dr-anu-mauro/ (http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/black-africans-of-ancient-mediterranean-part-1-across-the-river-by-dr-anu-mauro/)


These are the same people that claim that John Hanson- the first man elected President of a loosely formed confederation of states in America- was black, and was the first President of the US (both untrue). What pride is there for people of African decent to believe that this dickhead who had slaves, ran a racist government that kept blacks oppressed for hundreds of years after his death, and barely gets any mention in history books was of our blood???

You went off topic!

There are the same fools that would have you believe that King James I- King of Scotland, King of England, first King of the United Kingdom- another racist pig, a religious extremist who oppressed dissenters and sanctioned the rule of intolerant clerics, and writer of the most biased translation of the bible in existence (though eloquently poetic when compared to most others- hence his association with Shakespeare) was black??? Why would you be proud to be anything like these fuckers?

Off topic!

Fuck that- I'm Mangani. I grew up climbing palm trees for coconuts, snorkeling for lobster, conch, and fish with harpoons n shit, going fishing at 3am until 9 or 10am, digging for clams and crabs in the mangroves, etc. I don't care if you call me a savage, or a king, or a god- I take more pride in being me than in being anything anybody else has been or done. You ignore the facts because you lack this pride in your self, and in your people. Your people have done enough to earn their place in history- even by the "white man's" telling of it...


I don't give a fuck about how you grew up; this is not the thread for this!

The white man never gave us the credit deserving of us!

By defending the white man for all the wickedness he has done to my people, you have shown yourself to be his mindless pawn.

Trismegistos
06-11-2008, 09:08 AM
I don't give a fuck about how you grew up; this is not the thread for this!

The white man never gave us the credit deserving of us!

By defending the white man for all the wickedness he has done to my people, you have shown yourself to be his mindless pawn.

Magani, I have no need to provide an additional response after Diggy's response, except to state that it is not only black people of African descent that believe that the ancient Hebrews were black Africans.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-11-2008, 10:13 AM
Historians agree that the ancient inhabitants of Iraq were black.

-You have provided no reference to any "historians" who "agree" the "ancient inhabitants of Iraq were black". This is not a common scientific argument, and those who make the claims ignore the fact that "colored" does not mean "black" and "black", though a reference to skin color is generally accepted as of "sub-Saharan-African" decent- or having "Negroid" racial characteristics. Again- noone is denying the ancient Iraqis, Arabs, Hebrews, or some other groups of people were dark skinned, brown, light brown, high yellow or otherwise. They are not of sub-Saharan African decent in the sense you are trying to make them. I will elaborate below...

The first chromosome from continental Africa (M89) dates back to about 45,000 years ago. This would match an initial grand migration of populations out of Africa into the Middle East and Asia. The second is a more recent African marker which is called M172, and that dates back to just 12,000 years ago; which could lend support to the tradition of secondary waves of migration from the Red Sea area of Africa to the Levant..

-It is common knowledge, and scientifically accepted fact that modern humans first evolved in Africa. To say the chromosomes of ANYONE can be traced 12,000-45,000 years back to Africa isn't saying much. This is preaching to the choir. You ignore the fact that this study is referencing MODERN "Phoenicians". If modern Phoenicians are decendants of ancient Pheonicians, or the Phoenicians of biblical times (4000bc-100bc), and if those Phoenicians were "black" or of African decent, wouldn't the chromosomes in these people be more recent... say from 6,000 years ago at most? I don't think you understand genetic research in the slightest bit, so that question was rhetorical. I will answer it for you- George W. Bush most likely has the same chromosome.

Afro-Asiatic people.

-Afro-Asiatic is not "black". Afro, when in reference to genetics and anthropology specifically is referring to Sub-Saharan African. When in conjunction with another genetic identifier- say, Asiatic- it is generally in reference to races other than Sub-Saharan African or Congoid (formerly Negroid).

According to Egyptian traditions the first Egyptians called themselves ‘Anu’ or ‘Ani’. They indicated they were originally a colony of Kushites (i.e. ‘ethiops’) from southern Nubia (Sudan) who migrated north down the Nile River Valley to the delta region with their cattle..

-The Kushites (Sudan) were pre-Egyptian peoples- meaning their kingdom thrived long before a unified Egypt. The Egyptians migrated south, and at one point Egypt was conquered by the Kushites (or Nubians). They are not one and the same peoples, though their cultures were highly communicative.

“Eur-ope” translates from Greek as “broad-face”. Some would argue this is additional proof of her ‘ethi-opic’ or African connections since broad faces are hardly a common feature among people of so-called Semitic, Indo-Scythian, or Caucasian origin..

-Your statement is not only incorrect, it is contradictory to your position.

(In ancient Greek mythology, Europa was a Phoenician princess whom Zeus abducted after assuming the form of a dazzling white bull. He took her to the island of Crete where she gave birth to Minos, Rhadamanthus and Sarpedon. For Homer, Europe (Greek: Εὐρώπη, Eurṓpē; see also List of traditional Greek place names) was a mythological queen of Crete, not a geographical designation. Later Europa stood for mainland Greece, and by 500 BC its meaning had been extended to lands to the north.

Etymologically, the dominant theory suggests the name Europe is derived from the Greek roots meaning broad (eur-) and eye (op-, opt-), hence Eurṓpē, "wide-gazing" (compare with glaukōpis (grey-eyed) Athena or boōpis (ox-eyed) Hera). Broad has been an epithet of Earth itself in the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European religion. A minority, however, suggest that it is really based on a Semitic word such as the Akkadian erebu meaning "to go down, set",[4] cognate to Phoenician 'ereb "evening; west" and Arabic Maghreb, Hebrew ma'ariv. See also Erebus, PIE *h1regwos, "darkness".)

Blacks are the originators...

-On this we can agree... however that has nothing to do with Hebrews being black, nor does any of the rest of your post. Even if Egyptians are proven to be black- Hebrews are not from Egypt. Even if Ancient Phoenicians migrated from Africa 12,000-45,000 years ago, so did everyone else.

You speak with no evidence. Speaking of common knowledge, are u aware of the fact that it was once "common knowledge" that "the earth is flat"?

-This was due to a lack of evidence to the contrary, and a lack of an organized scientific community which we have today... HOWEVER there are mountains of data proving that ancient civilizations did not view the earth as flat, rather some cultures even measured the axis at which it is tilted, the distance from the sun, when the sun would shine where, the length of days, months, years, etc.- all this is based on the premise that the Earth is a sphere and revolves around the Sun. Read up on the Incas, buddy, and since you claim to know so much about the Egyptians, read up on their science as well.

As for the Hebrews, it IS common knowledge that they are Semitic. Your lack of knowledge of this subject is akin to not knowing George Washington was the first President of the US... don't blame me for your ignorance, thank me for educating you.

I have already provided a statement and a link prooving the ancient Hebrews were black

-You've proven the theory exists, but no evidence to support it.

You seem to not want to accept the truth.

-You do not provide sufficient "truth" to make this judgement.

Your mind has been effectively and thoroughly "whitewashed".

-How does this comment support your argument? You are only proving my assessment of Black Hebrew Israelites who have formulaic and confrontational responses, especially when faced with scientific evidence and logical arguments.

When did I mention pride and comfort?

Do u believe in truth, or do u feel comfort in hearing and believing lies?

The white man has for centuries lied about the black man's place in history

-This is an implied reference to the pride in knowing your place in history.

Why are u so defensive and telling me your ethnic backgrounds?

-In attempting to shower yourself with pride in "knowing" your Hebrew "heritage", you attempt to strip those who pride themselves in their African heritage of that pride. It is offensive, derrogatory, and ignorant to associate and substitute the attributes of one great culture for that of another simply because you have been misinformed. You are trading misinformation for misinformation. The "defensiveness" you sense is something you lack- passion for my love of my TRUE culture. No offense against Hebrews, but I see no pride in substituting my own history for theirs.

How did God and religion get into this?

-You must seriously think we are all stupid. Black Hebrew Israelites is a religion. You are spewing religious rhetoric, postinge biblical verses, and claiming a place in history currently occupied by a culture that is identified by it's religion- YET YOU ASK HOW RELIGION GOT INTO THIS???

Yes there was a time when the Euro-savages invaded Egypt, but the original inhabitants were black

-What does that have to do with Cleopatra, the last Pharaoh of Egypt, and the last regent of the Ptolemeic dynasty began by Ptolemy- a Greek/Macedonian General under Alexander the Great??? SHE WAS GREEEEEK!

You went off topic!

-So you reference Black Hebrew Israelite teachings and you say I am off topic when I reference other Black Hebrew Israelite beliefs???

Off topic!

-This is not off topic. You are getting your information from Black Hebrew Israelites and this is what they believe. You sound like the Mormons that come to my house and get mad saying I'm making shit up when I quote the "Pearl of Great Price" or "Doctrines and Covenants". THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE BELIEF and if you are married to SOME of their teachings which are not scientific, you are married to ALL of their teachings...

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-11-2008, 10:15 AM
Magani, I have no need to provide an additional response after Diggy's response, except to state that it is not only black people of African descent that believe that the ancient Hebrews were black Africans.

-Then it is not only the Black Hebrew Israelites who are misinformed. There have always been bandwagon riders on different belief systems- heck, the founder of the NOI wasn't black! This doesn't make those statements and teachings true, it only makes them more widespread.

Black Man
06-11-2008, 10:40 AM
-Then it is not only the Black Hebrew Israelites who are misinformed. There have always been bandwagon riders on different belief systems- heck, the founder of the NOI wasn't black! This doesn't make those statements and teachings true, it only makes them more widespread.

(Knowing what you're talking about) If he wasn't black what was he?

Trismegistos
06-11-2008, 12:14 PM
-Then it is not only the Black Hebrew Israelites who are misinformed. There have always been bandwagon riders on different belief systems- heck, the founder of the NOI wasn't black! This doesn't make those statements and teachings true, it only makes them more widespread.

Magani, I don't see the relevance in attacking the NOI in order to rebuff my argument.

But, I would ask you to consider the fact that if the African-American is an ancestor of the ancient Hebrew, then do you think that the races that have degraded, enslaved, murdered and forcibly shifted a chosen people are going to come out and state that the African-American is God's chosen people from ancient times? (There are many non black Americans that still do not believe that blacks deserve equal rights)

In addition to that would the current Jewish people that have structured their belief system around themselves being the chosen people (who also hold considerable power, both financially and academically) be willing to let history be proven wrong and thus displace them from there status as the "chosen people"?

There are many reasons why there are many opposed to identifying the black (African) man as God's chosen people.

Myself personally being white it makes no difference to me whether it is Semites or Blacks that were the original Hebrew. I have nothing to gain and I believe in the spirit rather than the flesh. I also like to follow the truth and to me that says that the ancient Israelites were black.

I believe that you have incorporated some aspects in to your argument that detract from the main debate. No one on this thread was stating that King James or Shakespeare were black. We are not debating the skin tone or validity of the teachings of Wallace Fard Muhammad.

Myself being without any religious affiliation I don't understand the argument that I am jumping on a bandwagon. I'm not a member or follower of the Black Hebrews, Nation of Islam or 5 percenters. I prefer to create my own path rather than follow another's path. All my beliefs would not correlate with any other single belief structure. But I like many others do gain some insight into knowledge by observing other cultures.

diggy
06-11-2008, 07:36 PM
-You have provided no reference to any "historians" who "agree" the "ancient inhabitants of Iraq were black". This is not a common scientific argument, and those who make the claims ignore the fact that "colored" does not mean "black" and "black", though a reference to skin color is generally accepted as of "sub-Saharan-African" decent- or having "Negroid" racial characteristics. Again- noone is denying the ancient Iraqis, Arabs, Hebrews, or some other groups of people were dark skinned, brown, light brown, high yellow or otherwise. They are not of sub-Saharan African decent in the sense you are trying to make them. I will elaborate below...



-It is common knowledge, and scientifically accepted fact that modern humans first evolved in Africa. To say the chromosomes of ANYONE can be traced 12,000-45,000 years back to Africa isn't saying much. This is preaching to the choir. You ignore the fact that this study is referencing MODERN "Phoenicians". If modern Phoenicians are decendants of ancient Pheonicians, or the Phoenicians of biblical times (4000bc-100bc), and if those Phoenicians were "black" or of African decent, wouldn't the chromosomes in these people be more recent... say from 6,000 years ago at most? I don't think you understand genetic research in the slightest bit, so that question was rhetorical. I will answer it for you- George W. Bush most likely has the same chromosome.



-Afro-Asiatic is not "black". Afro, when in reference to genetics and anthropology specifically is referring to Sub-Saharan African. When in conjunction with another genetic identifier- say, Asiatic- it is generally in reference to races other than Sub-Saharan African or Congoid (formerly Negroid).



-The Kushites (Sudan) were pre-Egyptian peoples- meaning their kingdom thrived long before a unified Egypt. The Egyptians migrated south, and at one point Egypt was conquered by the Kushites (or Nubians). They are not one and the same peoples, though their cultures were highly communicative.



-Your statement is not only incorrect, it is contradictory to your position.

(In ancient Greek mythology, Europa was a Phoenician princess whom Zeus abducted after assuming the form of a dazzling white bull. He took her to the island of Crete where she gave birth to Minos, Rhadamanthus and Sarpedon. For Homer, Europe (Greek: Εὐρώπη, Eurṓpē; see also List of traditional Greek place names) was a mythological queen of Crete, not a geographical designation. Later Europa stood for mainland Greece, and by 500 BC its meaning had been extended to lands to the north.

Etymologically, the dominant theory suggests the name Europe is derived from the Greek roots meaning broad (eur-) and eye (op-, opt-), hence Eurṓpē, "wide-gazing" (compare with glaukōpis (grey-eyed) Athena or boōpis (ox-eyed) Hera). Broad has been an epithet of Earth itself in the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European religion. A minority, however, suggest that it is really based on a Semitic word such as the Akkadian erebu meaning "to go down, set",[4] cognate to Phoenician 'ereb "evening; west" and Arabic Maghreb, Hebrew ma'ariv. See also Erebus, PIE *h1regwos, "darkness".)



-On this we can agree... however that has nothing to do with Hebrews being black, nor does any of the rest of your post. Even if Egyptians are proven to be black- Hebrews are not from Egypt. Even if Ancient Phoenicians migrated from Africa 12,000-45,000 years ago, so did everyone else.



-This was due to a lack of evidence to the contrary, and a lack of an organized scientific community which we have today... HOWEVER there are mountains of data proving that ancient civilizations did not view the earth as flat, rather some cultures even measured the axis at which it is tilted, the distance from the sun, when the sun would shine where, the length of days, months, years, etc.- all this is based on the premise that the Earth is a sphere and revolves around the Sun. Read up on the Incas, buddy, and since you claim to know so much about the Egyptians, read up on their science as well.

As for the Hebrews, it IS common knowledge that they are Semitic. Your lack of knowledge of this subject is akin to not knowing George Washington was the first President of the US... don't blame me for your ignorance, thank me for educating you.



-You've proven the theory exists, but no evidence to support it.



-You do not provide sufficient "truth" to make this judgement.



-How does this comment support your argument? You are only proving my assessment of Black Hebrew Israelites who have formulaic and confrontational responses, especially when faced with scientific evidence and logical arguments.







-This is an implied reference to the pride in knowing your place in history.



-In attempting to shower yourself with pride in "knowing" your Hebrew "heritage", you attempt to strip those who pride themselves in their African heritage of that pride. It is offensive, derrogatory, and ignorant to associate and substitute the attributes of one great culture for that of another simply because you have been misinformed. You are trading misinformation for misinformation. The "defensiveness" you sense is something you lack- passion for my love of my TRUE culture. No offense against Hebrews, but I see no pride in substituting my own history for theirs.



-You must seriously think we are all stupid. Black Hebrew Israelites is a religion. You are spewing religious rhetoric, postinge biblical verses, and claiming a place in history currently occupied by a culture that is identified by it's religion- YET YOU ASK HOW RELIGION GOT INTO THIS???



-What does that have to do with Cleopatra, the last Pharaoh of Egypt, and the last regent of the Ptolemeic dynasty began by Ptolemy- a Greek/Macedonian General under Alexander the Great??? SHE WAS GREEEEEK!



-So you reference Black Hebrew Israelite teachings and you say I am off topic when I reference other Black Hebrew Israelite beliefs???



-This is not off topic. You are getting your information from Black Hebrew Israelites and this is what they believe. You sound like the Mormons that come to my house and get mad saying I'm making shit up when I quote the "Pearl of Great Price" or "Doctrines and Covenants". THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITE BELIEF and if you are married to SOME of their teachings which are not scientific, you are married to ALL of their teachings...


I provided sufficient links which if u read thru to the bottom, u would have seen the authors of the books ( some of them are historians) they were referenced from. You could have then done more research to discover the truth.

I am just stunned that u cannot see the truth. I guess that statement of "none so blind as those who refuse to see" applies to you unfortunately. The lies of the slave master and his proponents have gotten to you to the core. {:(

Ironic that u are a moderator of a Wu-Tang site who believes what u do.

Have a nice day.

Olive Oil Goombah
06-11-2008, 09:13 PM
LMAO..right now, after workin in the sun all year, i'm burnished bronze too. But im not black. Black isnt a color, its a style of nose, hair and lips.

diggy
06-11-2008, 09:45 PM
LMAO..right now, after workin in the sun all year, i'm burnished bronze too. But im not black. Black isnt a color, its a style of nose, hair and lips.

Historians agree that they had my style.

Mic Tyson
06-11-2008, 09:47 PM
Historians agree that they had my style.

aint that the truth

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 08:58 AM
(Knowing what you're talking about) If he wasn't black what was he?

-He was half white and half Polynesian.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 09:11 AM
Magani, I don't see the relevance in attacking the NOI in order to rebuff my argument.

-My statement was one of fact, not a judgement or a statement to be judged as an attack.

But, I would ask you to consider the fact that if the African-American is an ancestor of the ancient Hebrew.

-African-Americans aren't "ancestors" to any peoples because African-American is an ethnicity, not a race- though most African-Americans belong to the same race.

then do you think that the races that have degraded, enslaved, murdered and forcibly shifted a chosen people are going to come out and state that the African-American is God's chosen people from ancient times? (There are many non black Americans that still do not believe that blacks deserve equal rights)

-Again the issue of religion. God is not a racist, and wouldn't choose any race, group of "people", ethnicity, or otherwise over any other.

In addition to that would the current Jewish people that have structured their belief system around themselves being the chosen people (who also hold considerable power, both financially and academically) be willing to let history be proven wrong and thus displace them from there status as the "chosen people"?

-Jewish is a religion, not a race. The "chosen people" you speak of (Jews) include people of all races, ethnicities, and geographical decendence.

There are many reasons why there are many opposed to identifying the black (African) man as God's chosen people.

-If God were a little boy with ignorant ideas, childish favoritisms, and humanisitic vanities then he would not be God.

Myself personally being white it makes no difference to me whether it is Semites or Blacks that were the original Hebrew.

-Semites are a group of ethnicities, not one solid race. By affirmation that Arabs and Hebrews were dark, brown, light brown, high yellow- but not of African decent- is a testament to this fact.

I have nothing to gain and I believe in the spirit rather than the flesh. I also like to follow the truth and to me that says that the ancient Israelites were black.

-If you would disregard all logic in place of blind faith then I cannot do anything for you... noone can do anything for you.

I believe that you have incorporated some aspects in to your argument that detract from the main debate. No one on this thread was stating that King James or Shakespeare were black. We are not debating the skin tone or validity of the teachings of Wallace Fard Muhammad.

-If you want to evade all logic in this debate, then you are right... HOWEVER the teachings of the Black Hebrew Israelites are directly connected to the topic of this debate. Their words were copied word for word from their propaganda. They believe what I stated about King James and it is integral to their teachings which you claim to believe. The teachings of WFM are also directly connected to the teachings of Black Hebrew Israelites as they have roots in the same originators of these belief systems. If you knew the history of any of this, you would see a direct correlation.

Myself being without any religious affiliation I don't understand the argument that I am jumping on a bandwagon. I'm not a member or follower of the Black Hebrews, Nation of Islam or 5 percenters. I prefer to create my own path rather than follow another's path. All my beliefs would not correlate with any other single belief structure. But I like many others do gain some insight into knowledge by observing other cultures.

-You proved my point with your post. You don't understand the relevance of certain comments I made because you don't understand the topic or know it enough to have a logical debate on it. YET you adhere to beliefs that are directly related to all the comments I made. You say you are not a follower of any of these belief systems, yet you place your belief in an ounce of their propaganda. This is either hypocritical, ignorant, or both.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 09:22 AM
I provided sufficient links which if u read thru to the bottom, u would have seen the authors of the books ( some of them are historians) they were referenced from. You could have then done more research to discover the truth.

-I directly rebutted your claims based on theirs. They do not correlate. They are not claiming the Hebrews were "black". At best, they claimed they were Afro-Asiatic. That is not Sub-Saharan African, ie. Congoid.

I am just stunned that u cannot see the truth. I guess that statement of "none so blind as those who refuse to see" applies to you unfortunately. The lies of the slave master and his proponents have gotten to you to the core.

-You are stunned that I'm not a fool. Your ad-hominem statements are a testament to your lack of understanding of fact, logic, and proper research. You speak from the point of view of someone in search of pride in yourself, and I already have that pride. I don't need the "white man" or the "black man" to instill in me a sense of pride because I already have pride in myself, my heritage, and my known ancestry. THAT is what you lack, my friend, and until you learn that you will continue on a distructive path to mythological education.

[QUOTE=diggy;1203102]Ironic that u are a moderator of a Wu-Tang site who believes what u do.QUOTE]

-Is it ironic that a moderator on a Wu Tang website has a mind of his own? Is it ironic that I am educated? Is it ironic that I don't bend to fragile arguments and easily pick them apart? Is it ironic that I am versed on discredited historians, historical claims, and discredited pseudo-religions? It's not ironic. I have faced these people on the corners in Manhattan and Philadelphia. I have been pulled away by large groups of African-Americans who supported my arguments, but saw I was getting nowhere with these fools. I have pulled away groups of listeners from them in public, denouncing their out of context verses, fantastic claims, and exposing them as the uneducated propagandists that they are. Why is this ironic? I have LIVED this... not just read it on the internet and staked my own credibility on the words of another as you do...

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 09:27 AM
LMAO..right now, after workin in the sun all year, i'm burnished bronze too. But im not black. Black isnt a color, its a style of nose, hair and lips.

-I took a ride through Alabama once (with a scared Somalian friend) and stopped at a restaraunt called "The Cotton Patch". He was afraid because they had a giant Confederate flag on the roof, and I told him they were not necessarily racist, rather the restaraunt was on the site of a Civil War battle. I convinced him to go in, and we walked in and were hit with- not racist stares- but what we perceived to be admiring gazes. The waitresses were fine as hell, and super nice to us. Funny thing is everyone was white RACE- but darker than both of us because they worked all day in the hot ass sun. Their skin looked tough and leathery... the younger waitresses' skin didn't look as tough but it was as dark. They would come to our table two at a time and one would talk while the other would just stare and smile at us. It seemed like the biggest even for them to have blacks come eat at their diner... maybe they had other thoughts... I don't know... but they treated us great. I will always remember their skin color, because it was the first time I had seen a white person darker than me...

Trismegistos
06-12-2008, 10:40 AM
-African-Americans aren't "ancestors" to any peoples because African-American is an ethnicity, not a race- though most African-Americans belong to the same race.

Your the one that classified African-Americans as a race. Go back and read my post and you'll notice that I didn't class African-American's as a race but as "God's chosen people".

And everyone is an "ancestor" of someone.


-Again the issue of religion. God is not a racist, and wouldn't choose any race, group of "people", ethnicity, or otherwise over any other.

Yet Deuteronomy 7:6 states "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth".



-Jewish is a religion, not a race. The "chosen people" you speak of (Jews) include people of all races, ethnicities, and geographical decendence.

Again same as the first issue, I did not classify Jews as a race. I said the "current Jewish people". So your argument of Jews being comprised of all races, ethnicities and geographical descendants whilst true, is not valid in this argument.



-If God were a little boy with ignorant ideas, childish favoritisms, and humanisitic vanities then he would not be God.

I take this as your attempt to mock what you "think" is my image of god. Quite erroneous in nature and an attack that has no effect upon my belief structure. And this was definitely an attack.

I get the impression that Magani's God is one of omnipotence whilst mine is an ignorant, small child.


-Semites are a group of ethnicities, not one solid race. By affirmation that Arabs and Hebrews were dark, brown, light brown, high yellow- but not of African decent- is a testament to this fact.

Again you attempt to read more into my words. I said it makes no difference to me if they were semites (semitic). I did not use the term "semitic race" and I understand that semitic people are of various ethnic origins. The fact you are arguing is not one that I was arguing against.



-If you would disregard all logic in place of blind faith then I cannot do anything for you... noone can do anything for you.

Again I am made to look like the fool. I have provided arguments against and have shown that you have misinterpreted or misconstrued my words. You make it sound like I am a person devoid of logic and lost in this world to wisdom and understanding, which then implies that Magani is all-wise and knowing and is the way and the truth.



-If you want to evade all logic in this debate, then you are right...

Circular logic and an unassailable position at that. I am only right if am illogical or if I embrace logic I am wrong. That seriously sounds like the rhetoric of a politician.


HOWEVER the teachings of the Black Hebrew Israelites are directly connected to the topic of this debate. Their words were copied word for word from their propaganda. They believe what I stated about King James and it is integral to their teachings which you claim to believe. The teachings of WFM are also directly connected to the teachings of Black Hebrew Israelites as they have roots in the same originators of these belief systems. If you knew the history of any of this, you would see a direct correlation.

Yet I made the point that I am not a follower of the NOI nor did I state that I wholeheartedly agree with any one religion.

The arguments are based upon what is in The Bible.




-You proved my point with your post. You don't understand the relevance of certain comments I made because you don't understand the topic or know it enough to have a logical debate on it. YET you adhere to beliefs that are directly related to all the comments I made. You say you are not a follower of any of these belief systems, yet you place your belief in an ounce of their propaganda. This is either hypocritical, ignorant, or both.

That logic is like saying that a Jew, Muslim and a Christian have the exact same belief system because they all believe in God. Your saying that because I believe that the ancient Hebrews were black then in effect I am a follower of the NOI or the Black Hebrew Israelites.

That again is erroneous. I stated that I gain some insight into "Knowledge" by observing other cultures. Last time I checked the dictionary knowledge and religion were completely separate words.

I have noticed from your posts that there seems to be only two ways. The Magani way and the wrong way.

I think that my argument in this post has countered every point that you have made. You have read more into my words than were there and you have also come into this thread/debate with your own preconceptions and beliefs about the NOI and the Black Hebrew Israelites.

Peace

Trismegistos
06-12-2008, 10:58 AM
-I took a ride through Alabama once (with a scared Somalian friend) and stopped at a restaraunt called "The Cotton Patch". He was afraid because they had a giant Confederate flag on the roof, and I told him they were not necessarily racist, rather the restaraunt was on the site of a Civil War battle. I convinced him to go in, and we walked in and were hit with- not racist stares- but what we perceived to be admiring gazes. The waitresses were fine as hell, and super nice to us. Funny thing is everyone was white RACE- but darker than both of us because they worked all day in the hot ass sun. Their skin looked tough and leathery... the younger waitresses' skin didn't look as tough but it was as dark. They would come to our table two at a time and one would talk while the other would just stare and smile at us. It seemed like the biggest even for them to have blacks come eat at their diner... maybe they had other thoughts... I don't know... but they treated us great. I will always remember their skin color, because it was the first time I had seen a white person darker than me...

So was the waitress working indoors or outdoors?

Also I'm not sure of your skin tone from your photo but where I'm from I've been to the outback in Australia and whilst the people are darker because of their suntan they are still not darker than the aboriginal people nor darker than my African-American friends that live in Australia. Also the Australian outback (desert) is about as harsh as any in the world.

Perth has a warmer climate than Alabama and yet they are not all darker than African-Americans from the North East of America.

Black Man
06-12-2008, 11:08 AM
-He was half white and half Polynesian.

intersting.....never ever heard of that one.

BTTR KNG KOOL
06-12-2008, 11:53 AM
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8462/kemeticethnictilesps1.gif

Faience Tiles of "Foreign Prisoners" from royal palace at Medinet Habu, build 1550-1292 BC........ ?



But

Real Hebrews are from Afrika.


The tribes are still are there And also some of them are in Israel now.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 01:57 PM
"Your the one that classified African-Americans as a race. Go back and read my post and you'll notice that I didn't class African-American's as a race but as "God's chosen people". "

-When speaking of "peoples" as an ancestral line it is implied that you are referring to a race of peoples (when speaking scientifically, or religiously). Your implication that "African-Americans" are ancestors of "Ancient Hebrews" is an implication that "African-American" is a race, and/or a joint representative of "blacks". In context you are implying that African-American is synonymous with the black race. You are wrong in either case.

"And everyone is an "ancestor" of someone."

an·ces·tor (nsstr)
n.
1. A person from whom one is descended, especially if more remote than a grandparent; a forebear.
2. A forerunner or predecessor.
3. Law The person from whom an estate has been inherited.
4. Biology The actual or hypothetical organism or stock from which later kinds evolved.

-African-Americans are forebearers of other African-Americans, and are therefore not ancestors to any proceeding breed, stock, ethnicity, or culture. Neither are you... so not "everyone" is "ancestor of someone".

"Yet Deuteronomy 7:6 states "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth"."

-Deuteronomy was written by a Hebrew for Hebrews. They were invading other lands, and the best way to justify political disenfranchisement, genocide, and invasion is through religion. Moses was an Egyptian of Hebrew decent- his story reflects his point of view, his struggles, and his justifications for his actions (or at least what was written and who wrote it).

"Again same as the first issue, I did not classify Jews as a race. I said the "current Jewish people". So your argument of Jews being comprised of all races, ethnicities and geographical descendants whilst true, is not valid in this argument."

-Again, in context you made that implication. This entire discussion is about race. Your reference to "Jewish people" when we are talking about Hebrews- which is a race and an ethnicity- is an implication that Jewish is synonymous with Hebrew. Again, you are wrong.

"I take this as your attempt to mock what you "think" is my image of god. Quite erroneous in nature and an attack that has no effect upon my belief structure. And this was definitely an attack."

[Originally Posted by WuLatino- MANGANI
-If God were a little boy with ignorant ideas, childish favoritisms, and humanisitic vanities then he would not be God.]

-I think it is pretty clear what I meant, and your implication that I was attacking you is ridiculous. I am attacking the belief system which attributes human qualities to a supreme being. You claim those are not your beliefs, yet without my referencing your beliefs you took offense. There is a saying in Spanish that says "if you pick at it, you are eating it"...

"I get the impression that Magani's God is one of omnipotence whilst mine is an ignorant, small child."

-I stated nothing of "omnipotence" or other scholarly attributed virtues which have no bearing in true religion. If your belief is that God is racist, ie. he shows favoritism toward a race, ethnicity, or group of people, then your belief is ignorant- not your god.

You know what... I'm tired of debating kids who believe whatever they read and don't apply any value to fact, logic, and science. Believe what you want...

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 01:58 PM
intersting.....never ever heard of that one.

-Then you don't know about the FBI, Clarence 13X, the Five Percenters, and other people who denounce the NOI. They all claim he was half white and half polynesian (New Zealand).

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 02:00 PM
[QUOTE=Alijannu;1203878Real Hebrews are from Afrika.
QUOTE]

-Hebrews are as much from Africa as are Celts, Goths, Visigoths, Gauls, etc. All peoples migrated out of Africa at some point. Hebrews migrated to Iraq- settled there for over 45,000 years, then Abraham brought this lineage to Canaan. If he was from Africa then so is George Bush.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 02:03 PM
Perth has a warmer climate than Alabama and yet they are not all darker than African-Americans from the North East of America.

-You have a very simplistic way of thinking. My story was in no way an affirmation of blanket attributes of caucasians who live in warm climates. My statement was in reference to what someone else said- a white person I presume- that he has been working outside and his skintone is now "burnished bronze". Some white's skin adapts to warm temperatures and actually produces melanin- others don't. Some develop cancerous accumulations of melanin- others develop freckles. Don't be an idiot...

Black Man
06-12-2008, 04:36 PM
-Then you don't know about the FBI, Clarence 13X, the Five Percenters, and other people who denounce the NOI. They all claim he was half white and half polynesian (New Zealand).

LOL....you're a funny person, b.u.t. you don't know what you're talking about here buddy.

Which one of the above denounces the NOI?

Half White and Half Polynesian (New Zealand).....:lmao:

One of his students, gives a very detailed account of his history. The FBI....like I would trust anything them cointelpro smucks have to say.

Mic Tyson
06-12-2008, 04:42 PM
LOL....you're a funny person, b.u.t. you don't know what you're talking about here buddy.

Which one of the above denounces the NOI?

Half White and Half Polynesian (New Zealand).....:lmao:

One of his students, gives a very detailed account of his history. The FBI....like I would trust anything them cointelpro smucks have to say.


True Islam got a book out called Master Fard Muhammad: Who Is He? Who Is He Not?

i haven't read it but supposedly it clears up the many identities fard was said to have.

it might be biased though

Trismegistos
06-12-2008, 04:50 PM
-You have a very simplistic way of thinking.

You can't be serious. Go back and read your post on the diner.


My story was in no way an affirmation of blanket attributes of caucasians who live in warm climates. My statement was in reference to what someone else said- a white person I presume- that he has been working outside and his skintone is now "burnished bronze". Some white's skin adapts to warm temperatures and actually produces melanin- others don't. Some develop cancerous accumulations of melanin- others develop freckles.

Yet you stated that the entire diner was full of whites that were darker than you and your friend.

If your argument is valid though why would the phenomenon stated happen only in Alabama and not outback Australia.


Don't be an idiot...

Again you would have to be kidding.

Trismegistos
06-12-2008, 05:13 PM
"Your the one that classified African-Americans as a race. Go back and read my post and you'll notice that I didn't class African-American's as a race but as "God's chosen people". "

-When speaking of "peoples" as an ancestral line it is implied that you are referring to a race of peoples (when speaking scientifically, or religiously). Your implication that "African-Americans" are ancestors of "Ancient Hebrews" is an implication that "African-American" is a race, and/or a joint representative of "blacks". In context you are implying that African-American is synonymous with the black race. You are wrong in either case.

Firstly your quote system is right up shit creek here, but your saying I implied.

And your example is not sufficient. What race do African-Americans belong to then?


"And everyone is an "ancestor" of someone."

an·ces·tor (nsstr)
n.
1. A person from whom one is descended, especially if more remote than a grandparent; a forebear.
2. A forerunner or predecessor.
3. Law The person from whom an estate has been inherited.
4. Biology The actual or hypothetical organism or stock from which later kinds evolved.

-African-Americans are forebearers of other African-Americans, and are therefore not ancestors to any proceeding breed, stock, ethnicity, or culture. Neither are you... so not "everyone" is "ancestor of someone".

What? Forebear is a synonym for ancestor. That is your weakest argument thus far.


"Yet Deuteronomy 7:6 states "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth"."

-Deuteronomy was written by a Hebrew for Hebrews. They were invading other lands, and the best way to justify political disenfranchisement, genocide, and invasion is through religion. Moses was an Egyptian of Hebrew decent- his story reflects his point of view, his struggles, and his justifications for his actions (or at least what was written and who wrote it).

Are you saying that Deuteronomy is not divinely inspired but the old equivalent of mein kampf?


"Again same as the first issue, I did not classify Jews as a race. I said the "current Jewish people". So your argument of Jews being comprised of all races, ethnicities and geographical descendants whilst true, is not valid in this argument."

-Again, in context you made that implication. This entire discussion is about race. Your reference to "Jewish people" when we are talking about Hebrews- which is a race and an ethnicity- is an implication that Jewish is synonymous with Hebrew. Again, you are wrong.

Captain obvious, this discussion is about race. I was talking about your reply to my quote.


"I take this as your attempt to mock what you "think" is my image of god. Quite erroneous in nature and an attack that has no effect upon my belief structure. And this was definitely an attack."

[Originally Posted by WuLatino- MANGANI
-If God were a little boy with ignorant ideas, childish favoritisms, and humanisitic vanities then he would not be God.]

-I think it is pretty clear what I meant, and your implication that I was attacking you is ridiculous. I am attacking the belief system which attributes human qualities to a supreme being. You claim those are not your beliefs, yet without my referencing your beliefs you took offense. There is a saying in Spanish that says "if you pick at it, you are eating it"...

Yeah there is a saying here in Australia and it is "what the fuck is this bloke on about?"


"I get the impression that Magani's God is one of omnipotence whilst mine is an ignorant, small child."

-I stated nothing of "omnipotence" or other scholarly attributed virtues which have no bearing in true religion. If your belief is that God is racist, ie. he shows favoritism toward a race, ethnicity, or group of people, then your belief is ignorant- not your god.

But I provided the verse in the Bible yet you still argue it.

Check your earlier comment


-If God were a little boy with ignorant ideas, childish favoritisms, and humanisitic vanities then he would not be God.

Your the one applied human characteristics to God. Not me


You know what... I'm tired of debating kids who believe whatever they read and don't apply any value to fact, logic, and science. Believe what you want...

I am not a kid.

From my point your argument has been poorly argued.

And you again attempt to finish off with "political rhetoric".

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 11:05 PM
True Islam got a book out called Master Fard Muhammad: Who Is He? Who Is He Not?

-True Islam has one book- the Qur'an.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-12-2008, 11:10 PM
Trismegistos, this is the second time you and I participate in the same debate, and the second time you prove to be deficient in many areas- most importantly the topic of debate. This is not a forum with an official debate structure, and therefore I can only "say" your arguments lack true value and/or merit, but I challenge you- if you think you can handle yourself in a truly structured environment I challenge you to debate me on multiple topics at Www.debate.com . Your lack of logic will be pointed out by others, as well as your lack of credible sources. You make a lot of ad-hominem claims against me because you cannot defend your arguments, and though you say you are not a kid, your arguments contain less substance than those of many 14 year old debaters I know. On a forum like this one- full of people who are not necessarily serious about discussion, people who disregard logic and prefer arguments in support of fantastic religions and conspiracy theories- it is very easy for you to get away with the nonsense in which you partake in making your arguments. Again- if you dare have a truly structured argument you know where to find me. Until then you can just keep reading books and educate yourself. You really seem to need to expand your library and vocabulary, as well as your logic bank...

Charles Barry
06-13-2008, 12:12 AM
-True Islam has one book- the Qur'an.
He's speaking about the scholar named True Islam not the religion.

http://www.theblackgod.com

The book he's speaking about can be found on this website. There are also a lot of articles and multimedia you can check out.

Mic Tyson
06-13-2008, 12:30 AM
-True Islam has one book- the Qur'an.

you have no clue who i was talking about. and islam existed before the quran was written

EDIT:my bad i didn't see the post that the dude above me made

BTTR KNG KOOL
06-13-2008, 05:07 AM
-Hebrews are as much from Africa as are Celts, Goths, Visigoths, Gauls, etc. All peoples migrated out of Africa at some point. Hebrews migrated to Iraq- settled there for over 45,000 years, then Abraham brought this lineage to Canaan. If he was from Africa then so is George Bush.

i agree

Trismegistos
06-13-2008, 06:51 AM
Trismegistos, this is the second time you and I participate in the same debate, and the second time you prove to be deficient in many areas- most importantly the topic of debate. This is not a forum with an official debate structure, and therefore I can only "say" your arguments lack true value and/or merit, but I challenge you- if you think you can handle yourself in a truly structured environment I challenge you to debate me on multiple topics at Www.debate.com (http://Www.debate.com) . Your lack of logic will be pointed out by others, as well as your lack of credible sources. You make a lot of ad-hominem claims against me because you cannot defend your arguments, and though you say you are not a kid, your arguments contain less substance than those of many 14 year old debaters I know. On a forum like this one- full of people who are not necessarily serious about discussion, people who disregard logic and prefer arguments in support of fantastic religions and conspiracy theories- it is very easy for you to get away with the nonsense in which you partake in making your arguments. Again- if you dare have a truly structured argument you know where to find me. Until then you can just keep reading books and educate yourself. You really seem to need to expand your library and vocabulary, as well as your logic bank...

You also make a lot of ad hominem claims against me and I don't think you are the master of debate that you might perceive yourself to be.

I know your educated and I am willing to meet you in a debate, but I'd like to make sure that you can meet the following:

* Can you provide a link to your arguments at www.debate.com? This is to prove that you have successfully debated with someone and that it contained the structured set up that you want.

* I will not go debating religious issues on a website full of atheists and also I will not debate this issue of "were the ancient Hebrews black" to an audience of athiest whites. Does www.debate.com provide statistical details of the demographics of the members of its website?

* I am not going to debate an argument that is unassailable to one debater. e.g. "Hitler was a good guy", "George W Bush is the most intelligent politician ever", "Saddam Hussein was a great leader" etc etc

* Throw up a few general ideas and I'll take it from there. I'd also like to know what the response times are for each debater as I'm fairly busy with work at times.

* I am only going to debate a topic that we BOTH agree to debate.

VZA
06-13-2008, 06:54 AM
LOL I can't believe you guys are fighting over a story book.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-13-2008, 10:43 AM
He's speaking about the scholar named True Islam not the religion.

http://www.theblackgod.com

The book he's speaking about can be found on this website. There are also a lot of articles and multimedia you can check out.

-LOL! My bad!

LORD NOSE
06-13-2008, 10:50 AM
will be back to read all of this shit



http://91.121.132.199/gifs/8128.gif

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-13-2008, 10:58 AM
"You also make a lot of ad hominem claims against me and I don't think you are the master of debate that you might perceive yourself to be."

-You cannot make ad-hominem claims against someone who has provided no facts because you have left only your beliefs to attack, and not any facts, figures, or scientific data. I have provided these, and you have not attacked my information rather my person. Not the same thing...

"* Can you provide a link to your arguments at www.debate.com? This is to prove that you have successfully debated with someone and that it contained the structured set up that you want."

-http://www.debate.com/Mangani - here you can examine my arguments, topics of debate, and comments made by voters. The site is not perfect, but it will provide a more structured environment where comments are not part of the debate, and voters can attack each other based on whether they are voting on the merits of the debate or their own beliefs.

"* I will not go debating religious issues on a website full of atheists and also I will not debate this issue of "were the ancient Hebrews black" to an audience of athiest whites. Does www.debate.com provide statistical details of the demographics of the members of its website?"

-I am pretty sure the majority of the world disagrees with you, but that is not the point. The voters can point out deficiencies in your arguments that you may not be aware of, as well as my own. The point of the website is to try to vote on the merits of the argument, and not your own opinion. I have voted against people I completely agree with because their arguments were ridiculous, and others have voted for me even if they disagree because my arguments have been better. I have lost debates that my opponent has conceded, so the site is not perfect (vers. 3 will take care of all these issues), but it's being worked on. The point is it is a better environment for a structured one on one debate.

"* I am not going to debate an argument that is unassailable to one debater. e.g. "Hitler was a good guy", "George W Bush is the most intelligent politician ever", "Saddam Hussein was a great leader" "

-We can agree on a debate, for one, and second, you don't have to accept a debate you don't like. If you want we can word your premise here, and the "resolved" statement to your liking. You are the "pro" here, so it's your premise.

"* Throw up a few general ideas and I'll take it from there. I'd also like to know what the response times are for each debater as I'm fairly busy with work at times."

-72 hours for each argument, and we can decide on a number of rounds (I think the max is either 5 or 7, but normally 3... it's up to you).

"* I am only going to debate a topic that we BOTH agree to debate."

-Like I said- it's your premise.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-13-2008, 11:26 AM
Tell me if you like this title- you write the premise, or I can pose the opposing argument, and you respond. By the way- if you feal you are demographically challenged you can send invites to your friend's emails so they can come and vote... though I would encourage them to vote based on the merits of the arguments as I always ask others to do.

"Resolved- The Ancient Hebrews were "black"- Black is defined anthropoligically as "Congoid" and refers spefically to the physical traits generally attributed to peoples of "Sub-Saharan Africa". "

Let me know if you like it, or if you want to modify it.

Trismegistos
06-14-2008, 09:43 AM
"Resolved- The Ancient Hebrews were "black"- Black is defined anthropoligically as "Congoid" and refers spefically to the physical traits generally attributed to peoples of "Sub-Saharan Africa". "

Let me know if you like it, or if you want to modify it.

I'll pass on that one. I don't want to debate this topic or religion based on the fact that I believe that a lot of people will vote based on their belief or lack thereof.


Trismegistos, this is the second time you and I participate in the same debate, and the second time you prove to be deficient in many areas- most importantly the topic of debate. This is not a forum with an official debate structure, and therefore I can only "say" your arguments lack true value and/or merit, but I challenge you- if you think you can handle yourself in a truly structured environment I challenge you to debate me on multiple topics at Www.debate.com (http://www.debate.com/) . Your lack of logic will be pointed out by others, as well as your lack of credible sources.

I'm actually debating you to prove that:

I'm able to engage in a debate, officially with the structures that you desire;
that my debating skills are above the level of a 14 year old;
that I am not "uneducated";
that I am not purely writing on this forum because it is filled with people with followers of fantasy religions and conspiracy theorists; and
that I am not hiding from engaging in official debate. Which seems what you've been gunning for against me twice now.I therefore propose that we debate a current issue and I'd like the debate to be:

"The Lisbon Treaty - Evidence that the European Union is increasingly becoming a less democratic institution"

Also:


I will not be inviting any friends to vote on the matter;
We can post a link in this website asking if anyone is interested in voting on the matter;
I think you have an advantage in that you have 17 debates under your belt at the website mentioned.So this is just to reiterate that I accepted the challenge to disprove that:

I am unable to engage in debate;
I am devoid of logic; and
my debating skills are poorer than a 14-year-old.I should be an easy victory for you!

4 Rounds, 72 Hours Per Round & The Option for a "Best Of Three" if I beat you on the first one.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-14-2008, 10:18 AM
"The Lisbon Treaty - Evidence that the European Union is increasingly becoming a less democratic institution"

-I won't debate European politics vs. a European... that's like having a fucking contest with a porn star. If you won't debate me in a structured environment on topics at least similar to the ones you are more than happy to debate here then of course you are being a hypocrite. That's like white people who call each other nigga around their white friends, but when their black friends come around it turns to "dawg".

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-14-2008, 10:22 AM
LOL....you're a funny person, b.u.t. you don't know what you're talking about here buddy.

Which one of the above denounces the NOI?

Half White and Half Polynesian (New Zealand).....:lmao:

One of his students, gives a very detailed account of his history. The FBI....like I would trust anything them cointelpro smucks have to say.

-One of who's students? Clarence 13X had made claims about WFM being half white, and the FBI files back this up. COINTELPRO? Yes... but being a past member of the Intelligence community I tend to be more immune to conspiracy "theories" than I am to conspiratorial reality. WFM made many claims which would place my trust in the FBI over his ANY day regardless of what the FBI has done to my people- WFM has been no better.

Trismegistos
06-14-2008, 11:28 AM
-I won't debate European politics vs. a European... that's like having a fucking contest with a porn star. If you won't debate me in a structured environment on topics at least similar to the ones you are more than happy to debate here then of course you are being a hypocrite. That's like white people who call each other nigga around their white friends, but when their black friends come around it turns to "dawg".

I am Australian.

Your the one that said that I cannot even debate in a structured manner. I've given you a challenge. We both live outside of Europe.

I have told you that I won't have an initial debate on this topic or on religion.

Are you willing to reconsider my original option?

"The Lisbon Treaty - Evidence that the European Union is increasingly becoming a less democratic institution"

In addition to that our first discussion on Revelation was on the European Union.

Also you state that this site is full of people that are:


On a forum like this one- full of people who are not necessarily serious about discussion, people who disregard logic and prefer arguments in support of fantastic religions and conspiracy theories- it is very easy for you to get away with the nonsense in which you partake in making your arguments

That site has people debating computer game characters fighting each other:
http://www.debate.com/debates/Kratos-God-of-War-I-II-versus-Dante-Devil-MayCry-I-IV-Would-be-a-good-fight/1/

And you did say multiple topics and I already stated that I won't debate religion yet based on the fact that people already have their mind made up. This is about my debating skills and your debating skills.

So you up for the debate?

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-15-2008, 05:20 PM
Are you willing to reconsider my original option?

"The Lisbon Treaty - Evidence that the European Union is increasingly becoming a less democratic institution"



-The truth is I have no interest in European politics. Every democracy becomes less democratic with age. I won't debate you on something I don't know about, and would potentially agree with anyways. Furthermore you cannot debate whether or not something is "evidence" of something that is subjective, ie. "less democratic". Your premise is not an affirmation of fact, rather a statement of possibility which makes no sense debating against.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-15-2008, 05:24 PM
That site has people debating computer game characters fighting each other:
http://www.debate.com/debates/Kratos-God-of-War-I-II-versus-Dante-Devil-MayCry-I-IV-Would-be-a-good-fight/1/

-Then what are you afraid of? Our first topic was not regarding European politics, rather religion. You attempted to make a correlation between the two and I rebutted your position. That had nothing to do with my knowledge of European politics, rather my knowledge of religion.

If you're afraid to debate me on something that matters to me then what's the point?

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
06-15-2008, 06:24 PM
-Light black is not a color. Light black is grey. Burnished bronze is the color of ANYONE who lives in a desert climate. People spend too much time paying attention to colors, and too little time on substance...

That pretty much sums it up.

Wu-Latino should moderate KTL in addition to wu-latino. Maybe he could straighten you retards out a little bit.

Mic Tyson
06-15-2008, 06:29 PM
That pretty much sums it up.

Wu-Latino should moderate KTL in addition to wu-latino. Maybe he could straighten you retards out a little bit.

who the mods in KTL now?

Trismegistos
06-15-2008, 08:29 PM
who the mods in KTL now?

MAGMA (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=2282), http://www.shift-1.com/w.gif LHX (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=30219), http://www.shift-1.com/w.gif MsRzaRecTaH (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=46133), http://www.shift-1.com/w.gif Cilvaringz (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=136), http://www.shift-1.com/w.gif Prolifical ENG (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=3828)

Trismegistos
06-15-2008, 08:43 PM
-Then what are you afraid of? Our first topic was not regarding European politics, rather religion. You attempted to make a correlation between the two and I rebutted your position. That had nothing to do with my knowledge of European politics, rather my knowledge of religion.

If you're afraid to debate me on something that matters to me then what's the point?

What am I afraid of?

Either you cannot read or your extremely stubborn. What does "will not debate on this topic or on religion" mean to you?

I'll do a break down of this thread.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-15-2008, 09:56 PM
Ok... read my profile on Debate.com and choose something you disagree with me on. Other than what we have debated so far (religion) I don't know what we agree and/or disagree on so check and choose a topic.

Trismegistos
06-15-2008, 10:50 PM
Ok... read my profile on Debate.com and choose something you disagree with me on. Other than what we have debated so far (religion) I don't know what we agree and/or disagree on so check and choose a topic.

The topics are all centered around the US and its policies, not entirely fair being that I am in Australia and hence why I chose Europe. BUT I'll take you on at a debate there, so long as you agree to the second debate being on the European Union.

How's that for compromise.

My link is http://www.debate.com/trismegistos

Trismegistos
06-16-2008, 12:44 AM
I've started the debate at http://www.debate.com/?d=4424

Debating is your passion not mine.

Mic Tyson
06-16-2008, 12:54 AM
what does european and us policies have to do with black hebrews? how did yall get into that?

Trismegistos
06-16-2008, 02:55 AM
what does european and us policies have to do with black hebrews? how did yall get into that?

Twice me and Magani have had disagreements. Once on the Revelation thread and once on this one 'The Black Hebrews' thread.

Both times Magani has basically said that I'm uneducated and unable to debate in a proper manner.

Now I'm not stupid enough to go and debate religion, especially that the Hebrews were Black on a website that I believe could be predominantly white and athiest.

Europe was an issue in the other thread and it is external to Australian and US politics. Hence I'll debate him over that.

I've actually decided to debate him over welfare and I'll see how I go.

LORD NOSE
06-16-2008, 05:24 AM
-Have you ever looked at an Arab? The ancient Hebrews (and up until the time of Jesus when they were mixed with Mediterraneans and other races) were Semitic just as modern Hebrews are. Arabs are dark- some as dark as the darkest Africans- yet they are not "black" in the sense that they are not of sub-Saharan African decent. Indians in general are dark, and some as dark as the darkest Africans, but they have straight hair.

Dark skin does not make you black, and being Hebrew does not make you special...

so what is the difference between all of these people you mentioned ?

in america, there are a myriad of different types of black people - some of us have white skin, some of us are blue black - some yellow, some have hazel or green eyes - some of us have straight hair - some have yellow hair - some have red hair - some have wide noses, some of us have very small knob noses - so whats the difference between all of these people you mentioned ?






PLUS - HEbrews.......... why are they named such and how much does the bible play in why they are named such ?

Ancient hebrews....if their story is in the bible, and you haven't read their story, what are you really saying ?

their story gives descriptions of them - also the 19 books that were taken out called the apocrypha gives clear descriptions of these hebrews that you say were not black -


and what is black ?

white folks named us that - lumped us all up as one people - anyone who is non white with dark skin is "Black"

so for you to say that black people in arabia are not black is nonsense

they just call them sand niggers over there - us over here are niggers, but if you live in arabia and you're black, you're a sand nigger - lmao - white folks got jokes

LORD NOSE
06-16-2008, 05:32 AM
-Do I need to show facts- or can it be logically accepted as common knowledge- that the Hebrews were Semitic? Compare them to other Semitic peoples, and tell me they are "of African decent". They are not- yet they are of color...


lmao - you don't have to be of african descent to be "Black"

just because a person is born in arabia doesn't make him/her non black - the continents,lands, countries don't determine who you are - black people were/ are on every piece of land on this earth - and we are the original occupants of of every piece of earth - even europe - the original Hebrews were black - our identity was stolen - end of discussion

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 08:51 AM
lmao - you don't have to be of african descent to be "Black"

just because a person is born in arabia doesn't make him/her non black - the continents,lands, countries don't determine who you are - black people were/ are on every piece of land on this earth - and we are the original occupants of of every piece of earth - even europe - the original Hebrews were black - our identity was stolen - end of discussion

-You're a clown.

Trismegistos
06-16-2008, 08:59 AM
-You're a clown.

???

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 09:06 AM
I've started the debate at http://www.debate.com/?d=4424

Debating is your passion not mine.

-I declined this debate because I don't believe "welfare should be abolished". If you wish, I can provide my own premise, but you would probably agree with it.

Trismegistos
06-16-2008, 09:15 AM
-I declined this debate because I don't believe "welfare should be abolished". If you wish, I can provide my own premise, but you would probably agree with it.

Your profile says that you are AGAINST the "government providing welfare to the poor".

Throw up your premise, I can only take a look at it.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 09:41 AM
in america, there are a myriad of different types of black people - some of us have white skin, some of us are blue black - some yellow, some have hazel or green eyes - some of us have straight hair - some have yellow hair - some have red hair - some have wide noses, some of us have very small knob noses - so whats the difference between all of these people you mentioned ?

-African-Americans and mixtures thereof are descendants of African slaves. This can be proven, traced, it is documented, and a DNA analysis will support this claim (unless someone thinks they are of African decent and actually isn't). The people I mentioned- though having similar characteristics like dark skin, are not anthropologically "Congoid". "Black" is used in this topic to signify "of African decent" of the "recent" type- otherwise the term would include every person on Earth and the argument would be completely void on either side.

PLUS - HEbrews.......... why are they named such and how much does the bible play in why they are named such ?

-Historical data in the bible, like geneologies, can be compared to those written by other cultures, and are generally not questioned because the claims are not fantastic, based on faith or myth, and are generally considered to be as accurate as possible for that time. The name "Hebrew" is said to come from "Heber"- a great grandson of Shem, from which the name "Semite" derives.

Ancient hebrews....if their story is in the bible, and you haven't read their story, what are you really saying ?

-Is this question missing something?

their story gives descriptions of them - also the 19 books that were taken out called the apocrypha gives clear descriptions of these hebrews that you say were not black -

-I have read many books, many apocrypha, scientific data, research, and opinions of scholars on both sides. Generally the information provided by people supporting the "black Hebrew" myth are easily discredited with elementary school science, while the findings of the "cons" are logical, systematic, and supported by science as well as scripture.

and what is black ?

-In this case, anthropologically speaking- Congoid (formerly Negroid), or having the physical traits of Sub-Saharan Africans.

white folks named us that - lumped us all up as one people - anyone who is non white with dark skin is "Black"

-There are some very ignorant whites who believe that, but scientifically speaking there are clear racial distinctions between the different classifications.

so for you to say that black people in arabia are not black is nonsense

-You say "white people named us that" then you adhere to the white designation. I don't adhere to this designation in ignorance, rather the scientific term. Antrhopologically we are all descendants of Africa. Arabs are not black because they have dark skin. They are Semitic because of their anthropoligical, geographical, and linguistic characteristics. They lack the standard physical characteristics that seperate Congoid from, say, Australoid or proto-Caucasoids which are generally as dark skinned as Congoids, have most of the same physical characteristics, but lack some skeletal, cranial, and hair features of the Congoids.

they just call them sand niggers over there - us over here are niggers, but if you live in arabia and you're black, you're a sand nigger - lmao - white folks got jokes

-You're speaking for ignorant whites, and people who adhere to those beliefs. I'm speaking of anthropological reality. Feeding into this "lumping" of gene pools out of ignorance, or out of searching for your place in history is one and the same. If one must resort to "caring" at all about racial classifications, one must do so scientifically or you are doing the same as the racist whites. Racist whites took something from African-Americans, and now African-Americans who believe the Hebrews were black are taking something away from blacks who are proud of their ancestry. It's a vicious cycle that is stopped through education, awareness, and cultural emersion. The main reason I am opposed to the "black Hebrew" notion- besides it's lack of scientific evidence- is that I know the history of the theory. I know how it evolved from association by occurence to association by race, and I know it is based on a lack of pride due to a lack of education on our own history. I don't see the sense of pride in being "Hebrew" over being "black" and I prefer my own ancestry to this imagined one (not that there's anything wrong with being of Hebrew decent).

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Your profile says that you are AGAINST the "government providing welfare to the poor".

Throw up your premise, I can only take a look at it.

-I am, but that is not to say that I am for abolishment of the system rather than restructuring of it.

Mic Tyson
06-16-2008, 10:08 AM
welfare fucked the hood up in a way. i read some book about it. it messed up niggas work ethic

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 10:12 AM
welfare fucked the hood up in a way. i read some book about it. it messed up niggas work ethic

-This is my premise, somewhat. "The current welfare system amounts to institutionalized ghettoization" or something like that...

I am for Socialized social programs, but not welfare. A Socialized Healthcare system, education system, and employment system (help with placement and re-education as needed) would eliminate the need for welfare. I am against welfare because it subsidizes poverty without ever seeking to eliminate it.

LORD NOSE
06-16-2008, 01:46 PM
-You're a clown.

your mother

LORD NOSE
06-16-2008, 02:05 PM
-African-Americans and mixtures thereof are descendants of African slaves.


No Stupid - we are not just descendants of african slaves

This can be proven, traced, it is documented, and a DNA analysis will support this claim (unless someone thinks they are of African decent and actually isn't). The people I mentioned- though having similar characteristics like dark skin, are not anthropologically "Congoid". "Black" is used in this topic to signify "of African decent" of the "recent" type- otherwise the term would include every person on Earth and the argument would be completely void on either side.


trying so hard to be smart - trying so hard to be right
black people are not limited to the african continent you fool



-Historical data in the bible,

lmao - nigga shut up - you don't know how stupid you sound
give us the historical data on the talking snake that made eve take of the tree of good and evil


like geneologies, can be compared to those written by other cultures, and are generally not questioned because the claims are not fantastic, based on faith or myth, and are generally considered to be as accurate as possible for that time. The name "Hebrew" is said to come from "Heber"- a great grandson of Shem, from which the name "Semite" derives.

you talk too much



-Is this question missing something?

no the question isn't missing anything - you are though



-I have read many books, many apocrypha, scientific data, research, and opinions of scholars on both sides. Generally the information provided by people supporting the "black Hebrew" myth are easily discredited with elementary school science, while the findings of the "cons" are logical, systematic, and supported by science as well as scripture.

what you have read and researched is bullshit -



-In this case, anthropologically speaking- Congoid (formerly Negroid), or having the physical traits of Sub-Saharan Africans.

lmao - nigga shut up
sub saharan africans lol
so now they are limiting us to the "sub" sahara - and this fool is going right along with them

so any one who is labeled black in america, originated in sub sahara africa ?
get off that strong drug son



-There are some very ignorant whites who believe that, but scientifically speaking there are clear racial distinctions between the different classifications.

the fact is that, you shouldn't scientifically speak at all

-You say "white people named us that" then you adhere to the white designation. I don't adhere to this designation in ignorance, rather the scientific term. Antrhopologically we are all descendants of Africa.


fuck your scientific terms



Arabs are not black because they have dark skin.


arabia is the name of a place and "arab" is not a race ............dumb ass

They are Semitic because of their anthropoligical, geographical, and linguistic characteristics. They lack the standard physical characteristics that seperate Congoid from, say, Australoid or proto-Caucasoids which are generally as dark skinned as Congoids, have most of the same physical characteristics, but lack some skeletal, cranial, and hair features of the Congoids.


nigga fuck all those oids and shit
and fuck the way "caucasiods" wanna label us
they been separating the family for many moons
and rewriting history to put themselves in our place



The main reason I am opposed to the "black Hebrew" notion- besides it's lack of scientific evidence- i


you're just another dumb "scientific evidence" needing nigga with no knowledge of self swimming in the wrong information

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 03:59 PM
No Stupid - we are not just descendants of african slaves

-You're right, but you get my point. I know your parents taught you bigger words than that...

trying so hard to be smart - trying so hard to be right
black people are not limited to the african continent you fool

-Then you have no idea what the word means. You defined it as what white people call "all of us", and you accept that meaning. I don't. And, right, I'm the one that "tries" to sound smart by calling people "stupid"... welcome to the playground kiddies!

lmao - nigga shut up - you don't know how stupid you sound give us the historical data on the talking snake that made eve take of the tree of good and evil

-WTF are you talking about???

no the question isn't missing anything - you are though

-You're so smart. You must have made statements so vague we just can't see them...

what you have read and researched is bullshit

-Oh, thanks for your educated and properly researched response! I'm sure everyone appreciates your insight...

lmao - nigga shut up
sub saharan africans lol
so now they are limiting us to the "sub" sahara - and this fool is going right along with them

-Again, you are sooo smart. Do you even know what that meanst? I'm going "right along with THEM"? You mean the same "them" who label all non-whites black, ie. YOU?

so any one who is labeled black in america, originated in sub sahara africa ?
get off that strong drug son

-At risk of throwing pearls to the pigs, I attempt to educate the ignorant- Sub-Saharan African was chosen as a geographical home for certain physical characteristics now collectively known as Congoid (ie. Congo). This was done to ensure a standard in racial classifications relating to geographical origin, ie. Caucasoid= Caucus region or Eurasia, Mongoloid= Mongolia, Australoid= Australia. See how simple that was children?

the fact is that, you shouldn't scientifically speak at all

-Huh?

fuck your scientific terms

-Sounds like my two year old when he can't get his point across... waaaahhhh!

arabia is the name of a place and "arab" is not a race ............dumb ass

-You're so smart, but I can only agree with you on half of that statement- Arabia is not a place. Arab is not a race, rather an ethnic group with varying degrees of racial representation depending on the origin, but very similar cultures all of which can trace their geneology to the original Arab tribes. Saudi Arabia is a "place", but is only SAUDI Arabia, ie. the Arab lands ruled by the House of Saud.

nigga fuck all those oids and shit
and fuck the way "caucasiods" wanna label us
they been separating the family for many moons
and rewriting history to put themselves in our place

-Your ignorance keeps you in a place of ignorance. You do very well to ensure your place amongst the ignorant, and you are a great representative of the ignorant. Good job buddy :)

you're just another dumb "scientific evidence" needing nigga with no knowledge of self swimming in the wrong information

-Right, I'm dumb for relying on scientific evidence. Any true knowledge is justified by science. Those who reject science do so because they are convinced in their ignorance prior to being convinced that facts should support fantastic claims. Ignorance is an easier path for you because you don't have to think, and when time comes to explain your position you can always rely on anger and rage and four letter words to express your discontent with thinking... tadada! fuck you! prrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaa! wonk wonk! You're stupid! waaaaaaaaaahhhhh! Fuckin kids...

Trismegistos
06-16-2008, 04:40 PM
-This is my premise, somewhat. "The current welfare system amounts to institutionalized ghettoization" or something like that...

I am for Socialized social programs, but not welfare. A Socialized Healthcare system, education system, and employment system (help with placement and re-education as needed) would eliminate the need for welfare. I am against welfare because it subsidizes poverty without ever seeking to eliminate it.

Your profile says your against social programs?

I can't exactly debate solely US welfare when I'm based in Australia and my experience of social programs is completely different to yours.

Think globally and re-word it to cater for an international need for social programs and then we can debate.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 05:23 PM
Your profile says your against social programs?

I can't exactly debate solely US welfare when I'm based in Australia and my experience of social programs is completely different to yours.

Think globally and re-word it to cater for an international need for social programs and then we can debate.

"Every clinically and legally sane, law abiding citizen should have the right to bear arms".

Memory Man
06-16-2008, 08:41 PM
i'm curious what everyone's definition of "black" is?

Mic Tyson
06-16-2008, 10:46 PM
people originating in africa. like the hebrews

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-16-2008, 10:58 PM
i'm curious what everyone's definition of "black" is?

-Well, memoryman, as you can tell from our posts it's a matter of perspective and pride. I am Afro-Latino, and it is a source of pride to say "Negro" and "Negroid" in my culture. It is a source of pride to know we are strong, and we do things that most people would only dream of doing. Our music, our food, our language- all this is a source of pride to me. Because of this I accept the anthropological classification of "black" as referring to those with predominantly Sub-Saharan African physical traits, normally referred to in the scientific community as Congoid and formerly Negroid. I believe a major problem with this debate is that I am the only one that has even attempted to define "black" and all others are simply using it as a blanket term referring to all people "of color" and/or all "dark skinned" peoples. Though I do believe these people have roots in Africa, they are not "black" anthropologically and/or ethnically. For instance- I believe the Olmecs were black African sailors who visited various areas of Polynesia and the Americas hundreds- if not thousands- of years ago and left behind genetic traits. The Aztecs, Incas, and Maya are all descendants of the Olmecs ETHNICALLY, though maybe not purely racially their descendants. If you think of what a African mixed with an Asian looks like, you get pretty much what most American Indians look like, and that's where I think their ancestors came from. That is not to say, however, that the American Indians are "black" though I theorize their ancestors were black African Olmecs (notice I specified "theorize").

I am also a student of religion, and strongly oppose the notion that God has a "chosen people" which is the root of the desire for others to claim Hebrews as kin. The Hebrews accomplished nothing more than I can claim my verifiable ancestors did, and I not only see no evidence the Hebrews are "closely" related to me, but I see no desire in being related or associated with Hebrews for any reason other than "friendship" or shared mutual respect.

Memory Man
06-16-2008, 11:12 PM
you're on point, Mangani.

Trismegistos
06-17-2008, 01:09 AM
"Every clinically and legally sane, law abiding citizen should have the right to bear arms".

I'm considering it, but were from two completely different cultures in terms of gun rights.

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-17-2008, 08:09 AM
I'm considering it, but were from two completely different cultures in terms of gun rights.

-Is there a reason why Americans should have guns and not Australians???

By the way, do you get New Zealand radio? You can hear my music on KFM 106.9 on Sundays.

Trismegistos
06-17-2008, 09:41 AM
-Is there a reason why Americans should have guns and not Australians???

By the way, do you get New Zealand radio? You can hear my music on KFM 106.9 on Sundays.

Not that there is a reason why Americans should have guns but a completely different culture. The United States has about 200 million guns in private hands. In Australia there is no need for firearms.

Start the debate and I'll take you on at it, but I can say that Europeans and Australians would be heavily anti-firearm whilst Americans are fairly pro-firearms. Still I can argue that point.

No can't pick up KFM but it is on the internet though.

LORD NOSE
06-18-2008, 05:05 PM
-You're right, but you get my point. I know your parents taught you bigger words than that...

there is no buts, you butt - if i'm right i'm right - your point and thought process is null and void

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1208690#post1208690)
trying so hard to be smart - trying so hard to be right
black people are not limited to the african continent you fool

-Then you have no idea what the word means.

what word - idiot

-Then you have no idea what the word means. You defined it as what white people call "all of us", and you accept that meaning. I don't. And, right, I'm the one that "tries" to sound smart by calling people "stupid"... welcome to the playground kiddies!

i'ma make this all easy so that even you can understand it - if you were to go back in time and bring all of the ancient hebrews, and place them in front of the world, every one would call them black people - and white supremist would call them niggers



Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1208690#post1208690)
lmao - nigga shut up - you don't know how stupid you sound give us the historical data on the talking snake that made eve take of the tree of good and evil



-WTF are you talking about???

i figured that would go over your tall ass head

i'm talking about you you mentioning the words "biblical history"

-Historical data in the bible



-You're so smart. You must have made statements so vague we just can't see them...

yeah yeah yeah - there are allot of things you can't see and you proved that in this thread



-Oh, thanks for your educated and properly researched response! I'm sure everyone appreciates your insight...

no problem



-Again, you are sooo smart. Do you even know what that meanst? I'm going "right along with THEM"? You mean the same "them" who label all non-whites black, ie. YOU?

nah - i don't know what that meanst - tell me what it meanst

you are not good at this - fall back


-At risk of throwing pearls to the pigs, I attempt to educate the ignorant-

you need to attempt to educate yourself - its a hard task but try it -
knowledge of self is the highest knowledge you can obtain

Sub-Saharan African was chosen as a geographical home for certain physical characteristics now collectively known as Congoid (ie. Congo).

thats what it is now, what was it before - words in the dictionary have changed or been taken out of the dictionary all together just because white supremist wanna hide who and what we are - you go along with what they are teaching, and you look, sound so stupid doing it

This was done to ensure a standard in racial classifications relating to geographical origin, ie. Caucasoid= Caucus region or Eurasia, Mongoloid= Mongolia, Australoid= Australia. See how simple that was children?


nigga shut up



-Huh?





-Sounds like my two year old when he can't get his point across... waaaahhhh!

he can get his point across - he's just frustrated because his daddy don't understand the simplest shit -




-You're so smart, but I can only agree with you on half of that statement- Arabia is not a place.

you playing yourself...again



Arab is not a race, rather an ethnic group


being sick is not the same as not feeling well either huh

with varying degrees of racial representation depending on the origin, but very similar cultures all of which can trace their geneology to the original Arab tribes. Saudi Arabia is a "place", but is only SAUDI Arabia, ie. the Arab lands ruled by the House of Saud.

the tribes that occupied arabia way back were the 12 tribes of Israel - they are called hebrews - and they are black



-Your ignorance keeps you in a place of ignorance. You do very well to ensure your place amongst the ignorant, and you are a great representative of the ignorant. Good job buddy :)

good job buddy ?

yousa corny ass movaphuka



-Right, I'm dumb for relying on scientific evidence. Any true knowledge is justified by science. Those who reject science do so because they are convinced in their ignorance prior to being convinced that facts should support fantastic claims. Ignorance is an easier path for you because you don't have to think, and when time comes to explain your position you can always rely on anger and rage and four letter words to express your discontent with thinking... tadada! fuck you! prrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaa! wonk wonk! You're stupid! waaaaaaaaaahhhhh! Fuckin kids...


listen you pus filled twinkie looking movaphuka.....fuck your thought process -

diggy
06-18-2008, 09:21 PM
The nature of self destruction part 4A
Posted By: Sabree Muhammad (http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/profile/sabree+muhammad)

Date: 3, January 08, at 1:04 a.m. May Allah be Praised Forever: beloved Right, please read attached{Black Hebrews?


The very words cause many people to grin at what appears to be simply a play on words. No one reads about such people in european authored history books and there are only a few references to "Ethiopian Jews" in white Jewish sources. Yet Black Hebrews have existed since biblical times. In fact, they are the original or proto-typical Hebrews.



Their story begins with the Patriarch Abraham (2117-1942 B.C.), a native of the Sumerian city of Ur in ancient Mesopotamia. Archaeological discoveries have proven that the earliest inhabitants of southern Mesopotamia were members of the "Brown Race," i.e., the Negroid branch of humanity.


It has been confirmed that the ancient Sumerians were akin to the modern Black Dravidians of India. The Sumerians also had an affinity with a people known as the Elamites, the very first Semitic group mentioned in the Bible (Gen. 10:22). The Elamites were a black-skinned and woolly-haired people as the colorful glazed artwork on the royal palace walls of the ancient Persian city of Susa clearly show.Thus Abraham, the native of Sumerian and the founding father of the Israelite nation, was a black man. The black racial origins of the Patriarchs is not based on mere conjecture, it is in complete agreement with the picture one gets from examining the identity of the earliest inhabitants of southern Mesopotamia.

This truth is grossly neglected, suppressed, and distorted in most European and American historical texts which are flavored with race prejudice. Fortunately, however, there are enough well authored and highly researched works by Black historians that challenge the Eurocentric revisions of history and correct the various erroneous views regarding the ethnic identity of the Hebrews.



Biblical history relates that the descendants of Abraham, namely Jacob (Israel) and his twelve sons and their wives, 70 in all, migrated from Canaan to Egypt around the year 1827 B.C. During their sojourn in Egypt the Children of Israel multiplied from being a family of 70 souls to a nation of over 3 million people at the time of the Exodus which took place in 1612 B.C.


This astounding number of people in so short a time can only be adequately explained by intermarriage between the family of Jacob and the native Egyptian populace. It is an established fact that the ancient Egyptians were a black African people. Thus, even if the Hebrews were not black before they arrived in Egypt, which is unlikely given Abraham's background, they were definitely black by the time they left Egypt under Moses.

The biblical Hebrews were indistinguishable from native Egyptians and Ethiopians. The Bible is full of examples which demonstrates this, and even ancient secular historians remarked of the physical appearances of the Hebrews. The historian Tacitus, for example, stated that it was a common opinion among the Romans that the Jews "were an Ethiopian race." In Roman times PalestinianIsraelites were classed among Black Africans because it was almost impossible to tell them apart...


Read more at:


http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2208



:yes:

Memory Man
06-18-2008, 09:50 PM
Archaeological discoveries have proven that the earliest inhabitants of southern Mesopotamia were members of the "Brown Race," i.e., the Negroid branch of humanity.

so are modern arabs black?

diggy
06-18-2008, 10:13 PM
Archaeological discoveries have proven that the earliest inhabitants of southern Mesopotamia were members of the "Brown Race," i.e., the Negroid branch of humanity.

Memoryman, where in this quote am I talking about modern Arabs?

Try using your eyes instead. :mmmyah:

diggy
06-18-2008, 10:19 PM
Herodotus, 485-425BC, the father of history, further said concerning the ancient Egyptians:

“It is in fact manifested that the Colchidians are Egyptian by race. Several Egyptians told me that in their opinion that the Colchidians were descendants of the soldiers of Sesostris. I had conjectured as much myself from two pointers, firstly because they have black skins and kinky hair, and secondly more reliably for the reason that alone among mankind, the Egyptians and the Ethiopians have practiced circumcision since time immemorial. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves admit that they learnt the practice from the Egyptians, while the Syrians in the river Thermodon and the Pathenoise region and their neighbours the Macrons say they learnt it recently from the Colchidians. These are the only races which practice circumcision, and it is observable that they do it in the same way with the Egyptians. As between the Egyptians themselves and the Ethiopians, I can not say which of them taught the other the practice, for among them; it is quite clearly a custom of great contiguity. As to the further strong proof to my belief is that all those Phoenicians trading to Greek cease to treat the pudenda after the Egyptian manner and do not subject their offspring to concussion”.

And by the way, since Hebrews were Egyptians and Egyptians were BLACK...

diggy
06-18-2008, 10:22 PM
Linguistic similarities between Ancient Egyptian and Yoroba.

Egyptian words on left, Yoraba words on right:


EGYPT YORUBA
1. Wu (rise) Wu (rise)
2. Ausa (Osiris, father of the gods) Ausa (father)
3. Ere (python/ Serpent) Ere (Python / Serpent)
4. Horise (a great god) Orise (a great god)
5. Sen (group of worshippers) Sen ( to worship)
6. Ged (to chant0 Igede (a chant)
7. Ta (sell / offer) Ta (sell/offer)
8. Sueg (a fool) Suegbe (a fool)
9. On ( living person) One ( living person)
10. Kum (a club) Kumo( a club)
11. Enru (fear / terrible) Eru (fear / terrible
12. Kun / qun (brave man) Ekun (title of a brave man)
13. Win (to be) Wino (to be)
14. Odonit (festival) Odon (festival)
15. Ma or mi (to breath) Mi. (to breathe)
16. Tebu (a town) Tebu (a town)
17. Adumu (a water god) Adumu (a water god)
18. Khu (to kill) Ku (die)
19. Rekha (knowledge} Larikha (knowledge)
20 Hika (evil) Ika (evil)
21 Mhebi (humble) Mebi, humble to ones family
22 Sata (perfect) Santan (perfect)
23 Unas (lake of fire) Una (fire)
24 Tan (complete) Tan (complete)
25 Beru (force of emotion) Beru (fear)
26 Em (smell) Emi (smell)
27 Pa (open) Pa (break open)
28 Bi (to become) Bi (to give birth, to become)
29 Hepi (a water god) Ipi (a water god)
30 Sami (water god) Sami (a water god)
31 Osiri (a water god) Oshiri (a water god)
32 Heqet – Re (frog deity) Ekere (the frog)
33 Feh (to go away) Feh (to blow away)
34 Kot (build) Ko (build)
35 Kot (boat) Oko (boat)
36 Omi (water) Omi (water)
37 Ra (time) Ira (time)
38 Oni (title of Osiris) Oni (title of the king of Ife)
39 Budo (dwelling place) Budo (dwelling place)
40 Dudu (black image of Osiris) Dudu (black person)
41 Un (living person) Una (living person)
42 Ra (possess) Ra (possess/buy)
43 Beka (pray/confess) Be or ka (to pray or confess)
44 Po (many) Po (many/cheap)
45 Horuw (head) middle Egyptian Oruwo (head) (Ijebu)
46 Min (a god) Emin (spirit)
47 Ash (invocation) Ashe (invocation)
48 Aru (mouth) Arun (mouth ) Ilaje
49 Do (river) Odo (river)
50 Do (settlement) Udo (settlement)
51 Shekiri (water god) Shekiri (a water god)
52 Bu (a place) Bu ,a place
53 Khepara (beetle Akpakara (beetle)
54 No (a water god Eno (a water god)
55 Ra -Shu (light after darkness Uran-shu (the light of the moon
56 Run-ka (spirit name) Oruko (name)
57 Deb/dib to pierce Dibi (to pierce)
58 Maat (goddess of justice Mate (goddess of justice)
59 Aru (rise) Ru (rise up)
60 Fa (carry) Fa (pull)
61 Kaf (pluck) Ka (pluck)
62 Bu bi (evil place) Bubi (evil place)
63 In- n (negation In-n (negation)
64 Iset (a water god) Ise (a water god)
65 Shabu (watcher) Ashonbo (watcher)
66 Semati (door keeper) Sema (lock/shut the door)
67 Khenti amenti (big words of Osiris Yenti – yenti (big, very big)
68 Ma (to know) Ma (to know)
69 Bebi, a son of osiris) Ube, a god
70 Tchatcha chief (they examined the death to see if they tricked tsatsa (a game of tricks, gambling )
71 Ren( animal foot) Ren (to walk)
72 Ka (rest) Ka (rest/tired)
73 Mu (water) Mu (drink water)
74 Abi (against) Ubi (against / impediment)
75 Reti (to beseech) Retin (to listen)
76 Hir (praise) Yiri (praise)
77 Ta(spread out) Ta (spread out)
78 Kurud (round) Kurudu (round)
79 Ak – male Ako (male)
80 Se – to create Se (to create)
81 Hoo (rejoice) Yo (rejoice)
82 Kamwr (black) Kuru (extremely black
83 Omitjener (deep water) Omijen (deep water)
84 Nen, the primeval water mother) Nene (mother
85 Ta (land) Ita (land junction)
86 Horiwo (head) Oriwo (head)
87 Ro (talk) Ro (to think)
88 Kurubu (round) Kurubu (deep and round)
89 Penka (divide) Kpen (divide)
90 Ma-su (to mould) Ma or su (to mould)
91 Osa (time) Osa (time)
92 Osa (tide) Osa ( tide)
93 Fare (wrap) Fari (wrap)
94 Kom (complete) Kon (complete)
95 Edjo (cobra) Edjo (cobra)
96 Didi (red fruit) Diden (red)
97 Ba (soul) Oba (king) soul of a people
98 Ke (hill) Oke( hill
99 Anubis (evil deity) Onubi (evil person)
100 Kan (one: Middle Egyptian) Okan one)
101 Nam (water god) Inama (water god) The words above are used to show that most Yoruban words are identical to the ancient Egyptian.



http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

Memory Man
06-19-2008, 03:57 AM
Memoryman, where in this quote am I talking about modern Arabs?

Try using your eyes instead. :mmmyah:

members of the "Brown Race," i.e., the Negroid branch of humanity.

modern arabs are brown...

diggy
06-19-2008, 04:28 AM
members of the "Brown Race," i.e., the Negroid branch of humanity.

modern arabs are brown...


"Modern Arabs" are not brown ( at least most of them; they are beige).

People who are brown are the people the white man calls black. My skin is literally brown.

U have nothing to contribute to this thread. U are stuck on who is the "Brown Race" even thou it says "i.e., the Negroid branch of humanity" because u do not accept the truth.

You are blind, deaf and dumb.

Get the fuck out of this thread.














http://www.dealbreaker.com/images/entries/middle_finger_flame_jpg_w300h300.jpg

Memory Man
06-19-2008, 04:39 AM
"Modern Arabs" are not brown ( at least most of them; they are beige).

People who are brown are the people the white man calls black. My skin is literally brown.

U have nothing to contribute to this thread. U are stuck on who is the "Brown Race" even thou it says "i.e., the Negroid branch of humanity" because u do not accept the truth.

You are blind, deaf and dumb.

Get the fuck out of this thread.


why should i believe that "the brown race" equates to "the negroid branch of humanity" when other races have brown skin? also, that beige thing is silly.

diggy
06-19-2008, 04:51 AM
Egypt = An African country originaly inhabited by brown people

http://toysforyourblog.com/quiz/13/brown.jpg

Brown Crayon












http://www.aman.org/images/ChristopherBrown.jpg
Brown Man






















http://img.factmonster.com/images/arab.jpg
Arab with beige skin

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 04:51 AM
why should i believe that "the brown race" equates to "the negroid branch of humanity" when other races have brown skin? also, that beige thing is silly.


.......simply saying that allot of people who call themselves brown, are not really brown - they are beige,yellow,tan, etc...

this is the color brown


http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3480/brownhz7.png

look at the differences



http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6296/crayonslargeen0.jpg


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1462/wilsonreubsweetlife101bzr5.jpg

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 04:52 AM
http://img.factmonster.com/images/arab.jpg
Arab with beige skin


thats Tupac


websters dictionary meaning for Egypt is - Land of the blacks
Ethiopia = land of the black people - or land of the burnished skinned people

named by greeks



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LOUDBIRD/200px-JamesEvansSr.png


Brown

diggy
06-19-2008, 04:56 AM
Memoryman, you can shut up now.

Memory Man
06-19-2008, 05:08 AM
wow, you found a picture of a "beige" arab. i won't bother googling for a picture of a brown arab, because it's self-evident that they exist.

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 05:11 AM
wow, you found a picture of a "beige" arab. i won't bother googling for a picture of a brown arab, because it's self-evident that they exist.



why should i believe that "the brown race" equates to "the negroid branch of humanity" when other races have brown skin? also, that beige thing is silly.

show us a picture of "another race" that has brown skin but isn't black

Memory Man
06-19-2008, 05:16 AM
if all brown-skinned and asiatic races are "black", then you're correct, sunny. i don't think that diggy is claiming that, though. he's claiming that only "the negroid branch of humanity" has brown skin.

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 05:19 AM
if all brown-skinned and asiatic races are "black", then you're correct, sunny. i don't think that diggy is claiming that, though. he's claiming that only "the negroid branch of humanity" has brown skin.

the negroid branch ?

lmao

this is too much work for me


who else besides niggers, got brown skin ?



and for reference.....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LOUDBIRD/ETHIOPIA.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LOUDBIRD/EGYPT.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LOUDBIRD/cush.jpg

Memory Man
06-19-2008, 05:29 AM
http://www.writespirit.net/authors/paramahansa_yogananda/autobiography_of_a_yogi/yogananda.jpg
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/Egypt/BedouinBoyOnCamel.jpg

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 05:34 AM
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/402/90109790mr8.png
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/Egypt/BedouinBoyOnCamel.jpg


both black men

Memory Man
06-19-2008, 06:46 AM
but not negroid.

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 08:04 AM
but not negroid.

lol - there is no such thing as a negroid






http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3011/arabtupactr9.png

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-19-2008, 08:42 AM
"Modern Arabs" are not brown ( at least most of them; they are beige).

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05xzeESdwJ7rN/610x.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/50/149476065_3e16723e37_m.jpg

http://www.eag-palestine.org/images/palestinian%20costume.jpg

http://phillips.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/1228arabs.jpg

http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/10257862/Golden_Beige_Polished_Tile.jpg
Golden-Beige

http://www.bathroommarquee.co.uk/gros-scans/beige_marble-scan.jpg
Bursa Beige

http://vegagifts.com/mexico/patchBrownPride.jpg

http://denise.angband.org/images/salma1.jpg
Brown Mexican of Arab descent

Negroid is the former anthropological classification for Congoid which was changed for geographical identification to match the other racial anthropoligical classifications like Caucasoid, Australoid, and Mongoloid- all of which refer to a georgraphical location.

Negroid is detrimental to those who don't know their history, and/or were stripped of their knowledge of self. In parts of Latin America the term Negroid (or Negroide in Spanish) is a term used to emphasize pride in one's Congoid features, culture, traditions, and ancestry. Poesia Negroide or Negroid Poetry is amongst the most highly acclaimed in Latin American society, and teaches us the words, traditions, and harships of our ancestors. When you don't know your history you are likely to be offended by it, as it seems many of you are.

The term Negro which has been translated to mean "black" comes from the word Niger, and the name of the Niger river. It originally meant "people of the river (Niger)". Even in today's definition- black- it should be a source of pride for those identified by it. Call yourself brown- I am a Negro. I am also "brown" in literal terms, and ethnically as it has become the preferred term for pride for Latin Americans- this pride was derived from the association with the Black Panthers who touted their "blackness" and Africanness with pride, and as the source of their "power".

Trismegistos
06-19-2008, 08:53 AM
Everyone is losing me with the pics....



http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3011/arabtupactr9.png

Except for this one. This is gold, Witness Protection Tupac!

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 10:31 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LOUDBIRD/dinner.jpg

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-19-2008, 11:58 AM
Sunny and Diggy can't even agree- Sunny says Arabs are "black men" as evidenced in memoryman's posting of two dark skinned Arabs and Sunny's response.

Diggy says all "brown people" are "negroid"- yet not all people who are dark skinned are "brown" because some of them are beige. Sunny says there is no such thing as "negroid" and all "brown people" are "black".

“websters dictionary meaning for Egypt is - Land of the blacks
Ethiopia = land of the black people - or land of the burnished skinned people”

-The Ge'ez name ʾĪtyōṗṗyā and its English cognate are thought by some recent scholars to be derived from the Greek word Αἰθιοπία Aithiopia, from Αἰθίοψ Aithiops ‘an Ethiopian’, derived in turn from Greek words meaning "of burned face". However, the Book of Aksum, a Ge'ez chronicle compiled in the 15th century, states that the name is derived from "'Ityopp'is" — a son (unmentioned in the Bible) of Cush, son of Ham who according to legend founded the city of Axum.

“show us a picture of "another race" that has brown skin but isn't black”

-http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/2854334.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193CC300C081D9F47003312911C07AACBC2 DA3B54C062308538E30A760B0D811297
Filipinos

http://www.sos-arsenic.net/images/namo01.jpg
East Indian woman

http://www.jmjparis.org/IMG/jpg/Aborigene_3-2.jpg
Aborigenes

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Samoan_tattoos.jpg/394px-Samoan_tattoos.jpg
Samoan

http://www.pg.com/science/skincare/Skin_tws_23/skin_23_01.jpg
East Indian Man

“"Modern Arabs" are not brown ( at least most of them; they are beige).”

-Beige “blacks”
http://sharonbridgforth.com/photos/LovedOnes/redbone.jpg
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH-E/253802.jpg
http://www.clickthecity.com/img2/articles/CTC-1571-image4.jpg

Trismegistos
06-19-2008, 12:06 PM
http://sharonbridgforth.com/photos/LovedOnes/redbone.jpg



Pride!

I've responded to your first round, let's get the second round cracking!!!

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-19-2008, 06:07 PM
Pride!

I've responded to your first round, let's get the second round cracking!!!

It's done dude! Daaaayum you wanted me to respond as soon as you posted it! LOL!

LORD NOSE
06-19-2008, 08:56 PM
Sunny and Diggy can't even agree- Sunny says Arabs are "black men" as evidenced in memoryman's posting of two dark skinned Arabs and Sunny's response.

Diggy says all "brown people" are "negroid"- yet not all people who are dark skinned are "brown" because some of them are beige. Sunny says there is no such thing as "negroid" and all "brown people" are "black".

“websters dictionary meaning for Egypt is - Land of the blacks
Ethiopia = land of the black people - or land of the burnished skinned people”

-The Ge'ez name ʾĪtyōṗṗyā and its English cognate are thought by some recent scholars to be derived from the Greek word Αἰθιοπία Aithiopia, from Αἰθίοψ Aithiops ‘an Ethiopian’, derived in turn from Greek words meaning "of burned face". However, the Book of Aksum, a Ge'ez chronicle compiled in the 15th century, states that the name is derived from "'Ityopp'is" — a son (unmentioned in the Bible) of Cush, son of Ham who according to legend founded the city of Axum.

“show us a picture of "another race" that has brown skin but isn't black”


Filipinos


East Indian woman

Aborigenes


Samoan


East Indian Man

“"Modern Arabs" are not brown ( at least most of them; they are beige).”

-Beige “blacks”

i see you have a hard time understanding the obvious and you have a need to rely on the words of my peoples enemies and the enemy of everyone and everything natural - again - fuck all of those labels - negroid,black, brown, beige, congoid, etc....
our enemies have been separating us using divide and conquer tactics and idiots have been buying into it and relying on the next scientific sounding label to use in debates like this - we are original people - people of the planet - whether we were born in arabia or new york - we have different hues different views but we are original people - we use the labels black and brown so that we are able to communicate - but we are not black or brown - there is no black or brown race - this is some made up shit just like congoid and negroid is some made up shit -
our people are bigger than the colors and countries that we are named after - the blonde haired blue eyed child of satan needs to be spotted and studied

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-20-2008, 08:46 AM
the blonde haired blue eyed child of satan needs to be spotted and studied

-You trade the ignorance of one man for the ignorance of another. "We are all original peoples", yet we must band together against "the blonde hared blue eyed child of satan"? What about the brown haired brown eyed caucasians??? Are they excluded from this hatred in your heart? Are brunette parents of a blonde child also evil? You say "we" are of all hues, yet you single out a hue... what about us who have non-white-American white relatives? Are they the children of satan also? What if I- a black nappy haired, brown eyed, dark skinned man am the son of a blonde haired blue eyed mother? Is Obama the child of satan, or is it about the "color" like you on the one hand ask us to ignore, and on the other you insult whites for??? You are a confused child, son.

Etymologically your entire statement is lacking any education. Satan is not a "person" or individual, and in the religions that use the name "satan"- the original use- it was not used to mean "evil" in any way, and the "devil" didn't exist until pagan Europeans tampered with the Middle Eastern religions (yet you claim to not follow the "word of the enemy"). The white man taught brown people that "satan" was a person, and that he was a "devil". YET scripture teaches us "satan" was a condition of spirit found amongst the "Sons of God" that was "adversarial" with man. Learn your etymology, and practice what you preach...

Longbongcilvaringz
06-20-2008, 09:30 AM
I admire your patience and persistence in logically retorting what sunny says mangani.

Many others, including myself, grow tired of his constant side stepping, subject changing and answering of questions with questions.

LORD NOSE
06-20-2008, 02:27 PM
-You trade the ignorance of one man for the ignorance of another. "We are all original peoples", yet we must band together against "the blonde hared blue eyed child of satan"? What about the brown haired brown eyed caucasians??? Are they excluded from this hatred in your heart? Are brunette parents of a blonde child also evil? You say "we" are of all hues, yet you single out a hue... what about us who have non-white-American white relatives? Are they the children of satan also? What if I- a black nappy haired, brown eyed, dark skinned man am the son of a blonde haired blue eyed mother? Is Obama the child of satan, or is it about the "color" like you on the one hand ask us to ignore, and on the other you insult whites for??? You are a confused child, son.

Etymologically your entire statement is lacking any education. Satan is not a "person" or individual, and in the religions that use the name "satan"- the original use- it was not used to mean "evil" in any way, and the "devil" didn't exist until pagan Europeans tampered with the Middle Eastern religions (yet you claim to not follow the "word of the enemy"). The white man taught brown people that "satan" was a person, and that he was a "devil". YET scripture teaches us "satan" was a condition of spirit found amongst the "Sons of God" that was "adversarial" with man. Learn your etymology, and practice what you preach...


you want your questions answered - all the information you seek has been discussed here already - it'll do you some good to look up some of the threads you missed out on - if you keep up with the insults - i'ma have to fuck you up - take care young man

WuLatino- MANGANI
06-20-2008, 03:09 PM
you want your questions answered - all the information you seek has been discussed here already - it'll do you some good to look up some of the threads you missed out on - if you keep up with the insults - i'ma have to fuck you up - take care young man

-What are you talking about? Are you insulted by me exposing your ignorance? Are you insulted by my questioning your lack of education? Don't be offended- educate yourself. Isn't that the point of "KTL"? I don't think it's a pissing contest here, rather a place for us to educate each other. You lack education on 99% of the subjects I have seen you comment on, yet you are offended when those educated on these same subjects speak out against you.

My friend- knowledge does not cause frustration, ignorance does. You are frustrated by your own ignorance and feel you have the need to resort to ignorant speech, insults, and vulgarity. You are an internet gangster, by the way, in saying you will "fuck me up". In person I would make a complete fool of you, and on the internet you make a complete fool of yourself. Grow up and be a man. Men speak to each other a certain way, and you don't even know how to speak to another man. You are a child intellectually, grammatically, and in your demeanor.

You comments are in complete disagreement with the only person who has agreed with you in this thread- evidence that you are both confused. I have no problem with you educating yourself and coming back with a logical rebuttal, but as long as you spew ignorance I will denounce it...

LORD NOSE
06-20-2008, 03:52 PM
-What are you talking about? Are you insulted by me exposing your ignorance?

nope - i'm not insulted at all - i'm used to idiots who don't know what the fuck they talking about telling me i'm ignorant due to the fact that i don't accept their white washed theories on who my people are



Are you insulted by my questioning your lack of education? Don't be offended- educate yourself. Isn't that the point of "KTL"? I don't think it's a pissing contest here, rather a place for us to educate each other. You lack education on 99% of the subjects I have seen you comment on, yet you are offended when those educated on these same subjects speak out against you.



lmao - educated by who using what - you claim you are "educated" on these subjects - but you're not - the same people who purposely erased our history from school text taught you what you think you know - i deal with your kind all the time - in due time you'll get cut down to size

My friend- knowledge does not cause frustration, ignorance does.

you're no friend of mines - don't assume you know what i am - just because i said i'll fuck you up, don't assume i'm over here angry and frustrated with you - you are no competition at all - seriously

You are frustrated by your own ignorance and feel you have the need to resort to ignorant speech, insults, and vulgarity.

tell yourself what you will - you came into the thread with insults - so i met you with insults - you sent me about 4 PMs and neg repped me twice while i laughed the whole time - a frustrated know it all would only take time out to PM someone on how disgusted they are with whats going on - only a immature idiot who abuses his power would take time out to neg rep some one who doesn't give a fuck about reputation

You are an internet gangster, by the way, in saying you will "fuck me up". In person I would make a complete fool of you, and on the internet you make a complete fool of yourself.

in person you would make a complete fool of me ?
lmao how do you know this ?
you're way to confident - you are ego trippin - i'm fucking you up right now - when your speed knots go down, and you wake up outa your coma you will realize this

Grow up and be a man. Men speak to each other a certain way, and you don't even know how to speak to another man. You are a child intellectually, grammatically, and in your demeanor.


lmao - you wrote this whole paragraph trying to convince me,yourself, and others of this when the subject is black hebrews - no - you grow up - and get over yourself

You comments are in complete disagreement with the only person who has agreed with you in this thread- evidence that you are both confused. I have no problem with you educating yourself and coming back with a logical rebuttal, but as long as you spew ignorance I will denounce it...

what you just wrote makes no sense - you have contradicted yourself throughout this thread - a person that agreed with me on one thing doesn't agree with me on another and this indicates to you that we are both confused ?
lol - just because i don't accept your congoloid, mongoloid bullshit doesn't mean that i'm ignorant to who and what my people are - go out and get some real education - study self and kind - and don't rely on the enemies of natural man for your information - start there - then maybe you'll be able to make a decent contribution to KTL - Newbies

LORD NOSE
06-20-2008, 03:58 PM
-You trade the ignorance of one man for the ignorance of another. "We are all original peoples", yet we must band together against "the blonde hared blue eyed child of satan"?

who said anything about banding together against the blue eyed blonde hair child of satan ?

i said that he must be looked at and studied - you are confused

What about the brown haired brown eyed caucasians??? Are they excluded from this hatred in your heart? Are brunette parents of a blonde child also evil? You say "we" are of all hues, yet you single out a hue...

i told you who needs to be studied and looked at for a reason - keep your ass and class and maybe you'll build up enough understanding to know why i said what i said when i said it -

what about us who have non-white-American white relatives? Are they the children of satan also? What if I- a black nappy haired, brown eyed, dark skinned man am the son of a blonde haired blue eyed mother? Is Obama the child of satan, or is it about the "color" like you on the one hand ask us to ignore, and on the other you insult whites for??? You are a confused child, son.

lmao - what about them ?

Etymologically your entire statement is lacking any education. Satan is not a "person" or individual, and in the religions that use the name "satan"- the original use- it was not used to mean "evil" in any way, and the "devil" didn't exist until pagan Europeans tampered with the Middle Eastern religions (yet you claim to not follow the "word of the enemy"). The white man taught brown people that "satan" was a person, and that he was a "devil". YET scripture teaches us "satan" was a condition of spirit found amongst the "Sons of God" that was "adversarial" with man. Learn your etymology, and practice what you preach...

satan or devil is the correct title that fits those deserving of such title -

BTTR KNG KOOL
06-20-2008, 06:28 PM
lol Nazi Sunny

kwabena1041
06-20-2008, 07:24 PM
Black people have been brainwashed into thinking that somehow it is a source of pride that Hebrews "were black". The fact of the matter is they were not. All philosophies tied to claiming so are based on a lack of self esteem, and being opressed. I have had many face to face conversations with Black Hebrew Israelites and they are pseudo educated, meaning they ACT like they are educated, but in fact they are only filled with formulaic responses, nit picked verses, and overbearing rhetoric when supposedly having a conversation. They argue in groups of three or more, two reading verses and one spouting non-sensical rhetoric. When you point out facts they wash em out with "scripture"- they claim King James- the Scottish King of England- was black, and so was Shakespeare. These people are idiots...

I saw an excellent show on one of the discovery networks, in which scientist proved via DNA that South Africans are in fact the original Jews.

diggy
06-20-2008, 08:01 PM
You comments are in complete disagreement with the only person who has agreed with you in this thread- evidence that you are both confused. I have no problem with you educating yourself and coming back with a logical rebuttal, but as long as you spew ignorance I will denounce it...

Do u actually read the threads u post in?

If u did, you would know that I am not the only one in this thread that agrees with Sunny.

And if I do disagree with some things, it is because I have my own mind. I do not need to agree with every point.

Confusion is not disagreement. If it was u would be the most confused cuz u seem to disagree with alot of what other people say. And since u think that confusion is disagreement, then u are confused as to what the definition of confusion is!!!

diggy
06-20-2008, 08:08 PM
Etymologically your entire statement is lacking any education. Satan is not a "person" or individual, and in the religions that use the name "satan"- the original use- it was not used to mean "evil" in any way, and the "devil" didn't exist until pagan Europeans tampered with the Middle Eastern religions (yet you claim to not follow the "word of the enemy"). The white man taught brown people that "satan" was a person, and that he was a "devil". YET scripture teaches us "satan" was a condition of spirit found amongst the "Sons of God" that was "adversarial" with man. Learn your etymology, and practice what you preach...

Satan , or Shaitan in arabic, means "one who rebels/opposes". This is a characteristic.

You know nothing of what u claim, nor can u back it up.

LORD NOSE
04-07-2013, 10:40 AM
lmno smh

diggy
04-07-2013, 12:06 PM
Shaitan could be jinn or man. They could both be rebels.

LORD NOSE
04-07-2013, 04:06 PM
what's the difference ?

Kephrem
04-21-2013, 09:15 PM
:learning:

diggy
04-21-2013, 09:37 PM
what's the difference ?

Are you asking what's the difference between jinn and man?

LORD NOSE
04-22-2013, 01:15 AM
yeah

diggy
04-22-2013, 05:17 PM
In what way? The physical difference, functional difference, or something else?

LORD NOSE
04-22-2013, 06:00 PM
any differences that you can point out

Kephrem
04-22-2013, 10:08 PM
any differences that you can point out

lol...i'm waiting for the answer myself...

diggy
04-22-2013, 10:25 PM
http://free-minds.org/who-are-jinn

John Nash
05-16-2013, 05:00 AM
LaWimz6Qano RPHNOsmIlX8

the original Hebrews called themselves red not black or white. Similiar to how native americans arent white or black but red.

the only way that people reach the conclusion that original hebrews are black is by twisting the scripture.

similiar to how whites twist the meaning of lamentations 4:7 in order to say that the Hebrews were originally white.

LORD NOSE
05-16-2013, 05:10 AM
yo..... you're right -


and i told yall before, the so called native american IS the original man - but they didn't look like them peoples in that video of yours -

John Nash
05-16-2013, 03:30 PM
Well yeah obviously they don't look the same because theyre from different parts of the world but they've got similiar skin colours.

the americas was one of the very last places to be populated with human life probably originating in Africa so the first people would have been Africans.

LORD NOSE
05-16-2013, 04:33 PM
there were always people on and in this land that is today being called america

Kephrem
05-17-2013, 02:10 AM
LaWimz6Qano RPHNOsmIlX8

the original Hebrews called themselves red not black or white. Similiar to how native americans arent white or black but red.

the only way that people reach the conclusion that original hebrews are black is by twisting the scripture.

similiar to how whites twist the meaning of lamentations 4:7 in order to say that the Hebrews were originally white.


show us red native americans and the source for hebrews calling themselves red....you do realize that the bible catergorizes them as looking like egyptians right?

John Nash
05-17-2013, 06:12 AM
lol i dont mean some bright luminous red but a red/copper brown colour. just go and look at any native american. why do you think they were called redskins and red indians.

Jacob's brother Esau was called Edom (red) and Hebrews and Edomites would have been very similiar considering the Bible says they're related to eachother and they're both Semites.

Even Adam is connected with the word Hebrew word "red".

In 1 Samuel 16:12 and 1 Samuel 17:42 King David is called red.

Solomon is called red in Song of Solomon 5:10.

In Lamentations 4:7 Hebrews are called red (people often mistranslate this verse and say Hebrews are white with a red tint to their skin but this is a mistranslation because the Hebrew word for red in this verse is a very deep blood red and not just a shade or hue. Also the word often translated as "whiter" should be translated as "more dazzling").

yes of course the Hebrews looked similiar to Egyptians lol. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with that point.

John Nash
05-17-2013, 06:23 AM
אָדַם to be red
אָדָם man/mankind/Adam
אָדָם first man
אָדֹם red
אֱדֹם Edom/Edomite/land of Edom
אֹדֶם red gem
אֲדַמְדַּם reddish/be reddish
אַדְמָה red earth
אֲדָמָה ground/soil/territory/earth etc

John Nash
05-17-2013, 06:30 AM
דָּם blood

Kephrem
05-21-2013, 02:16 AM
lol i dont mean some bright luminous red but a red/copper brown colour.

red and brown are different...one is melanin the other lacks it (as in "red necks")

just go and look at any native american. why do you think they were called redskins and red indians.


because the real red man lied (being the devil) and constantly in war would see them in red war paint




Jacob's brother Esau was called Edom (red) and Hebrews and Edomites would have been very similiar considering the Bible says they're related to eachother and they're both Semites.

esau was an albino (the color was announced and recorded in the bible because it was unusual and something new genesis 25:25), born to hebrews who were all black back then (jacobs color was not announced because it was the same as everyone else)


in other words red= not the norm...

Even Adam is connected with the word Hebrew word "red".

adam means "of the earth" meaning dark brown...later even the quran said he was created of black mud

Adam
masc. proper name, Biblical name of the first man, from Hebrew adam "man," literally "(the one formed from the) ground" (Hebrew adamah "ground"); cf. Latin homo "man," humanus "human," humus "earth, ground, soil."


edom/red is "ah-da-wam" adam is "ah-da-ma"


In 1 Samuel 16:12 and 1 Samuel 17:42 King David is called red.

Solomon is called red in Song of Solomon 5:10.

red in the bible is the color of the devil revelation 12:3 & 9...it is also considered unclean in the book of the laws on leprosy...figure out for yourself if those kings wouldve been anything close to red, being considered by their own laws as abominable (something extremely low)

In Lamentations 4:7 Hebrews are called red (people often mistranslate this verse and say Hebrews are white with a red tint to their skin but this is a mistranslation because the Hebrew word for red in this verse is a very deep blood red and not just a shade or hue. Also the word often translated as "whiter" should be translated as "more dazzling").

Lamentations 4:8

Their visage is blacker than a coal

visage (n.)
c.1300, from Old French visage, from vis "face, appearance,"

explain why in 16th century russia theres a painting of the geneaology of christ with nothing but black people with afros

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lngxcs5m1w1qkb2g8o1_500.jpg

yes of course the Hebrews looked similiar to Egyptians lol. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with that point.

were the egyptians red ?

Kephrem
05-21-2013, 02:33 AM
http://www.joelmeyerowitz.com/photography/images/book_11_c.jpg

children of esau/edom

Kephrem
05-21-2013, 02:48 AM
Leviticus 13
King James Version (KJV)

13 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying,

2 When a man shall have in the skin of his flesh a rising, a scab, or bright spot, and it be in the skin of his flesh like the plague of leprosy; then he shall be brought unto Aaron the priest, or unto one of his sons the priests:

3 And the priest shall look on the plague in the skin of the flesh: and when the hair in the plague is turned white, and the plague in sight be deeper than the skin of his flesh, it is a plague of leprosy: and the priest shall look on him, and pronounce him unclean.

4 If the bright spot be white in the skin of his flesh, and in sight be not deeper than the skin, and the hair thereof be not turned white; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague seven days:


*********** 2 kings 5:27 ***********************


The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow.

************************************************

5 And the priest shall look on him the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague in his sight be at a stay, and the plague spread not in the skin; then the priest shall shut him up seven days more:

6 And the priest shall look on him again the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague be somewhat dark, and the plague spread not in the skin, the priest shall pronounce him clean: it is but a scab: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

7 But if the scab spread much abroad in the skin, after that he hath been seen of the priest for his cleansing, he shall be seen of the priest again.

8 And if the priest see that, behold, the scab spreadeth in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a leprosy.

9 When the plague of leprosy is in a man, then he shall be brought unto the priest;

10 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the rising be white in the skin, and it have turned the hair white, and there be quick raw flesh in the rising;

11 It is an old leprosy in the skin of his flesh, and the priest shall pronounce him unclean, and shall not shut him up: for he is unclean.

12 And if a leprosy break out abroad in the skin, and the leprosy cover all the skin of him that hath the plague from his head even to his foot, wheresoever the priest looketh;

13 Then the priest shall consider: and, behold, if the leprosy have covered all his flesh, he shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: it is all turned white: he is clean.


**********************the verse above is saying that a person can be fully taken over by the leprosy and turn white!!!!! this was called a clean leper****************************

14 But when raw flesh appeareth in him, he shall be unclean.

15 And the priest shall see the raw flesh, and pronounce him to be unclean: for the raw flesh is unclean: it is a leprosy.

16 Or if the raw flesh turn again, and be changed unto white, he shall come unto the priest;

17 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the plague be turned into white; then the priest shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: he is clean.

18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed,

19 And in the place of the boil there be a white rising, or a bright spot, white, and somewhat reddish, and it be shewed to the priest;

20 And if, when the priest seeth it, behold, it be in sight lower than the skin, and the hair thereof be turned white; the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague of leprosy broken out of the boil.

21 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hairs therein, and if it be not lower than the skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

22 And if it spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague.

23 But if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not, it is a burning boil; and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

24 Or if there be any flesh, in the skin whereof there is a hot burning, and the quick flesh that burneth have a white bright spot, somewhat reddish, or white;

25 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the hair in the bright spot be turned white, and it be in sight deeper than the skin; it is a leprosy broken out of the burning: wherefore the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

26 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hair in the bright spot, and it be no lower than the other skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

27 And the priest shall look upon him the seventh day: and if it be spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

28 And if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not in the skin, but it be somewhat dark; it is a rising of the burning, and the priest shall pronounce him clean: for it is an inflammation of the burning.

29 If a man or woman have a plague upon the head or the beard;

30 Then the priest shall see the plague: and, behold, if it be in sight deeper than the skin; and there be in it a yellow thin hair; then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a dry scall, even a leprosy upon the head or beard.

31 And if the priest look on the plague of the scall, and, behold, it be not in sight deeper than the skin, and that there is no black hair in it; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague of the scall seven days:

32 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the plague: and, behold, if the scall spread not, and there be in it no yellow hair, and the scall be not in sight deeper than the skin;

33 He shall be shaven, but the scall shall he not shave; and the priest shall shut up him that hath the scall seven days more:

34 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the scall: and, behold, if the scall be not spread in the skin, nor be in sight deeper than the skin; then the priest shall pronounce him clean: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

35 But if the scall spread much in the skin after his cleansing;

36 Then the priest shall look on him: and, behold, if the scall be spread in the skin, the priest shall not seek for yellow hair; he is unclean.

37 But if the scall be in his sight at a stay, and that there is black hair grown up therein; the scall is healed, he is clean: and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

38 If a man also or a woman have in the skin of their flesh bright spots, even white bright spots;

39 Then the priest shall look: and, behold, if the bright spots in the skin of their flesh be darkish white; it is a freckled spot that groweth in the skin; he is clean.

40 And the man whose hair is fallen off his head, he is bald; yet is he clean.

41 And he that hath his hair fallen off from the part of his head toward his face, he is forehead bald: yet is he clean.

42 And if there be in the bald head, or bald forehead, a white reddish sore; it is a leprosy sprung up in his bald head, or his bald forehead.

43 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the rising of the sore be white reddish in his bald head, or in his bald forehead, as the leprosy appeareth in the skin of the flesh;

44 He is a leprous man, he is unclean: the priest shall pronounce him utterly unclean; his plague is in his head.

45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.

46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.

LORD NOSE
05-21-2013, 03:45 AM
The Original Man, Fresh out of the Womb, is Red, with softer features and hair texture. Before the earth elements hit him

John Nash
05-21-2013, 05:27 AM
red and brown are different...one is melanin the other lacks it (as in "red necks")

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fw7OxEafuN0/UN1EO03KIlI/AAAAAAABV9Y/XOp4kbw8wys/s1600/yemenis.jpg

these are brownish reddish people from the middle East



because the real red man lied (being the devil) and constantly in war would see them in red war paint

thats another theory for the origin for "redskin", but if you look at Joeseph Smith he thought of Native Americans as red and he was referring directly to their skin, not red paint.






esau was an albino (the color was announced and recorded in the bible because it was unusual and something new genesis 25:25), born to hebrews who were all black back then (jacobs color was not announced because it was the same as everyone else)


in other words red= not the norm...

if Esau was an albino he would be called very white and not red and that would mean King David and Solomon were albinos.



adam means "of the earth" meaning dark brown...later even the quran said he was created of black mud

Adam
masc. proper name, Biblical name of the first man, from Hebrew adam "man," literally "(the one formed from the) ground" (Hebrew adamah "ground"); cf. Latin homo "man," humanus "human," humus "earth, ground, soil."


edom/red is "ah-da-wam" adam is "ah-da-ma"

the Hebrew word for ground is also closely related to the word for red. u make the mistake of not knowing that there is red soil in the Middle East. Go to Australia or the Middle East and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=MlYEaWKxCuZfaM&tbnid=2SmXW_hn3-do8M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdanalbrecht.com%2F%3Ftag%3Dred-soil&ei=5zebUd_uO4q_0QX2rICwBw&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNG_cT0yITHrm7mCwTemBADNiLVusg&ust=1369213279497689

http://www.itu.dk/people/jamo/ex3/images/Red_soil.jpg

i've never read the quaran so i wouldnt know but how does the colour of mud youre created from decide someones skin colour.

if eve was created from a white rib is she white?





red in the bible is the color of the devil revelation 12:3 & 9...it is also considered unclean in the book of the laws on leprosy...figure out for yourself if those kings wouldve been anything close to red, being considered by their own laws as abominable (something extremely low)

revelation is written in a metaphorical context so you cannot use that. i dont remember any laws of leprosy calling red skin unclean. are u sure u arent getting confused with red sores?



Lamentations 4:8

Their visage is blacker than a coal

visage (n.)
c.1300, from Old French visage, from vis "face, appearance,"


ur not reading this in context. The Hebrew word for "blacker" in this sentence means "to grow blacker" which means they were lighter and now they've become darker. Why has this happened? Probably because they've lost blood and become thinner which makes coloured people more dark.

the people are also punished and become diseased so maybe theyre covered with so many scabs they've went darker, or they've caught a skin disease which makes their skin darker.

it's not saying the Hebrews always had black skin. It is even implying that the black skin is bad.


"Their princes were brighter than snow
and whiter than milk,
their bodies more ruddy than rubies,
their appearance like lapis lazuli.


But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."


I know thi is a slightly sloppy translation. but basicly it's saying the Jews were originally red and were dazzling (should be "more dazzling" instead of "whiter") but now theyve become diseased and their skin has gone darker coloured.

it could even be a reference oh fire raining down on them from God and they're turning black from soot.

also look at Job 30:30 it also suggests that Job's skin has darkened from diseases.

explain why in 16th century russia theres a painting of the geneaology of christ with nothing but black people with afros

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lngxcs5m1w1qkb2g8o1_500.jpg


I don't know why. I thought we were talking about original Jews, not Jesus. that picture couldve been from anywhere for all I know. Maybe some Russians took it from some Africans. I have no idea. Never seen that picture before.

were the egyptians red ?



look at their pictures

http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/samples/pa/world/nations/people/Egyptians%20Canaanites%20Nubians%20and%20Lybians%2 0on%20fresc.gif

they were an orange brownish reddish colour.

John Nash
05-21-2013, 05:35 AM
Leviticus 13
King James Version (KJV)

13 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying,

2 When a man shall have in the skin of his flesh a rising, a scab, or bright spot, and it be in the skin of his flesh like the plague of leprosy; then he shall be brought unto Aaron the priest, or unto one of his sons the priests:

3 And the priest shall look on the plague in the skin of the flesh: and when the hair in the plague is turned white, and the plague in sight be deeper than the skin of his flesh, it is a plague of leprosy: and the priest shall look on him, and pronounce him unclean.

4 If the bright spot be white in the skin of his flesh, and in sight be not deeper than the skin, and the hair thereof be not turned white; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague seven days:


*********** 2 kings 5:27 ***********************


The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow.

************************************************

5 And the priest shall look on him the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague in his sight be at a stay, and the plague spread not in the skin; then the priest shall shut him up seven days more:

6 And the priest shall look on him again the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague be somewhat dark, and the plague spread not in the skin, the priest shall pronounce him clean: it is but a scab: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

7 But if the scab spread much abroad in the skin, after that he hath been seen of the priest for his cleansing, he shall be seen of the priest again.

8 And if the priest see that, behold, the scab spreadeth in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a leprosy.

9 When the plague of leprosy is in a man, then he shall be brought unto the priest;

10 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the rising be white in the skin, and it have turned the hair white, and there be quick raw flesh in the rising;

11 It is an old leprosy in the skin of his flesh, and the priest shall pronounce him unclean, and shall not shut him up: for he is unclean.

12 And if a leprosy break out abroad in the skin, and the leprosy cover all the skin of him that hath the plague from his head even to his foot, wheresoever the priest looketh;

13 Then the priest shall consider: and, behold, if the leprosy have covered all his flesh, he shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: it is all turned white: he is clean.


**********************the verse above is saying that a person can be fully taken over by the leprosy and turn white!!!!! this was called a clean leper****************************

14 But when raw flesh appeareth in him, he shall be unclean.

15 And the priest shall see the raw flesh, and pronounce him to be unclean: for the raw flesh is unclean: it is a leprosy.

16 Or if the raw flesh turn again, and be changed unto white, he shall come unto the priest;

17 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the plague be turned into white; then the priest shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: he is clean.

18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed,

19 And in the place of the boil there be a white rising, or a bright spot, white, and somewhat reddish, and it be shewed to the priest;

20 And if, when the priest seeth it, behold, it be in sight lower than the skin, and the hair thereof be turned white; the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague of leprosy broken out of the boil.

21 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hairs therein, and if it be not lower than the skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

22 And if it spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague.

23 But if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not, it is a burning boil; and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

24 Or if there be any flesh, in the skin whereof there is a hot burning, and the quick flesh that burneth have a white bright spot, somewhat reddish, or white;

25 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the hair in the bright spot be turned white, and it be in sight deeper than the skin; it is a leprosy broken out of the burning: wherefore the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

26 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hair in the bright spot, and it be no lower than the other skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

27 And the priest shall look upon him the seventh day: and if it be spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

28 And if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not in the skin, but it be somewhat dark; it is a rising of the burning, and the priest shall pronounce him clean: for it is an inflammation of the burning.

29 If a man or woman have a plague upon the head or the beard;

30 Then the priest shall see the plague: and, behold, if it be in sight deeper than the skin; and there be in it a yellow thin hair; then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a dry scall, even a leprosy upon the head or beard.

31 And if the priest look on the plague of the scall, and, behold, it be not in sight deeper than the skin, and that there is no black hair in it; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague of the scall seven days:

32 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the plague: and, behold, if the scall spread not, and there be in it no yellow hair, and the scall be not in sight deeper than the skin;

33 He shall be shaven, but the scall shall he not shave; and the priest shall shut up him that hath the scall seven days more:

34 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the scall: and, behold, if the scall be not spread in the skin, nor be in sight deeper than the skin; then the priest shall pronounce him clean: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

35 But if the scall spread much in the skin after his cleansing;

36 Then the priest shall look on him: and, behold, if the scall be spread in the skin, the priest shall not seek for yellow hair; he is unclean.

37 But if the scall be in his sight at a stay, and that there is black hair grown up therein; the scall is healed, he is clean: and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

38 If a man also or a woman have in the skin of their flesh bright spots, even white bright spots;

39 Then the priest shall look: and, behold, if the bright spots in the skin of their flesh be darkish white; it is a freckled spot that groweth in the skin; he is clean.

40 And the man whose hair is fallen off his head, he is bald; yet is he clean.

41 And he that hath his hair fallen off from the part of his head toward his face, he is forehead bald: yet is he clean.

42 And if there be in the bald head, or bald forehead, a white reddish sore; it is a leprosy sprung up in his bald head, or his bald forehead.

43 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the rising of the sore be white reddish in his bald head, or in his bald forehead, as the leprosy appeareth in the skin of the flesh;

44 He is a leprous man, he is unclean: the priest shall pronounce him utterly unclean; his plague is in his head.

45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.

46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.

they're probably talking about a reddish sore not red skin all over. Yeah red sores and white leprosy marks are bad no matter what colour you are but that doesnt mean people who have naturally white skin or naturally red skin are unclean.

John Nash
05-21-2013, 05:40 AM
http://www.joelmeyerowitz.com/photography/images/book_11_c.jpg

children of esau/edom

if esau was an albino then he wouldnt have redhair, so that's not possible. also would he not be marrying women who were of colour so how could he have white children.

Kephrem
05-21-2013, 06:37 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fw7OxEafuN0/UN1EO03KIlI/AAAAAAABV9Y/XOp4kbw8wys/s1600/yemenis.jpg

these are brownish reddish people from the middle East


they have a degree of melanin = not red which a lack thereof





thats another theory for the origin for "redskin", but if you look at Joeseph Smith he thought of Native Americans as red and he was referring directly to their skin, not red paint.


didn't he also think they were cursed with blackness? "In the Book of Mormon, Lamanites are described as having a "skin of blackness"...so which one is it?


if Esau was an albino he would be called very white and not red and that would mean King David and Solomon were albinos.


what you see in albinos is the lack of melanin which gives a pinkish hue which is red...




the Hebrew word for ground is also closely related to the word for red. u make the mistake of not knowing that there is red soil in the Middle East. Go to Australia or the Middle East and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=MlYEaWKxCuZfaM&tbnid=2SmXW_hn3-do8M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdanalbrecht.com%2F%3Ftag%3Dred-soil&ei=5zebUd_uO4q_0QX2rICwBw&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNG_cT0yITHrm7mCwTemBADNiLVusg&ust=1369213279497689

http://www.itu.dk/people/jamo/ex3/images/Red_soil.jpg

Sirach (Apocrypha) chapter 33:10
And all men are from the ground, and Adam was CREATED OF
EARTH.


the earh is brown not red


i've never read the quaran so i wouldnt know but how does the colour of mud youre created from decide someones skin colour.

if eve was created from a white rib is she white?


was eve made of an actual rib?



revelation is written in a metaphorical context so you cannot use that.


at times it sure is metaphorical....so then what does red represent there if not the actual color of the devil according to you....and is that red color good?


i dont remember any laws of leprosy calling red skin unclean. are u sure u arent getting confused with red sores?


both the color red and white are used unfavorably when leprosy is described...






ur not reading this in context. The Hebrew word for "blacker" in this sentence means "to grow blacker" which means they were lighter and now they've become darker. Why has this happened? Probably because they've lost blood and become thinner which makes coloured people more dark.

the people are also punished and become diseased so maybe theyre covered with so many scabs they've went darker, or they've caught a skin disease which makes their skin darker.


can brown skinned people "grow blacker"..yes or no?

really?? scabs?!

it's not saying the Hebrews always had black skin. It is even implying that the black skin is bad.


"Their princes were brighter than snow
and whiter than milk,
their bodies more ruddy than rubies,
their appearance like lapis lazuli.

white = holines... as in having a clean slate... and rubies represent hardness..durabilty...or strength


But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."


can brown skinned people become blacker?

or do red people become blacker?


I know thi is a slightly sloppy translation. but basicly it's saying the Jews were originally red and were dazzling (should be "more dazzling" instead of "whiter") but now theyve become diseased and their skin has gone darker coloured.

it could even be a reference oh fire raining down on them from God and they're turning black from soot.

also look at Job 30:30 it also suggests that Job's skin has darkened from diseases.


can brown skinned people become blacker? the jews were mistaken for egyptians which were african...the classic egyptians were not whiter then snow or red/european colored




I don't know why. I thought we were talking about original Jews, not Jesus.


jesus was an unoriginal jew?


that picture couldve been from anywhere for all I know.


its russian...and at the very least 300 years old..if not 500


Maybe some Russians took it from some Africans. I have no idea. Never seen that picture before.


russians took an orthodox christian painthing from africans and placed it in a ancient russian cathedral as a holy relic? and lets say they did....thats not the sole one that depicts hebrews as black...so the question remains why...





look at their pictures

http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/samples/pa/world/nations/people/Egyptians%20Canaanites%20Nubians%20and%20Lybians%2 0on%20fresc.gif

they were an orange brownish reddish colour.


so now not only does red mean brown and white but also orange?

John Nash
05-21-2013, 12:45 PM
they have a degree of melanin = not red which a lack thereof

red isn't a measure of melanin, it's a colour. the Yemenites in that pictures obviously have red coloured skin. Don't look at the levels of melanin, look at the colour. It is red.








didn't he also think they were cursed with blackness? "In the Book of Mormon, Lamanites are described as having a "skin of blackness"...so which one is it?

sorry looks like I followed a false claim http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Lamanites/Curse/Red_skin

not exactly sure what he means by a skin of blackness because native americans definitely arent black. It's weird like when French Canadians call people with a swarthy appearance "nigra" and some Africans call light skinned people "white".





what you see in albinos is the lack of melanin which gives a pinkish hue which is red...


that is just stretching it. albinos do have a slight pink colour but the Hebrew word for red which describes Edom is a deep blood red, it's not some shade of red, and it's definitely not pink.

and "white" would have been a far more suitable colour to describe an albino rather than "red". It would just be unneccesarily awkard to call an albino red.








Sirach (Apocrypha) chapter 33:10
And all men are from the ground, and Adam was CREATED OF
EARTH.


the earh is brown not red


Lol the earth is all different colours. It's not just brown. I just showed you two pictures with red earth.




was eve made of an actual rib?

i don't believe in the Bible but the Bible says she was made from Adam's rib.






at times it sure is metaphorical....so then what does red represent there if not the actual color of the devil according to you....and is that red color good?

red probably represents anger or fury in the context or maybe John just saw a red dragon in his dream and there was no real reason it was red.





both the color red and white are used unfavorably when leprosy is described...

black skin is used unfavourably in Lamentations 4:8 and Job 30:30. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.









can brown skinned people "grow blacker"..yes or no?

really?? scabs?!

yes brown people can grow blacker from the sun or from not eating enough. white people can grow blacker from tanning as well. Only very black people can't grow any darker.

"Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23



white = holines... as in having a clean slate... and rubies represent hardness..durabilty...or strength

how come in two consecutive verses whenever the Jews are described as red and dazzingly white it's metaphorical but whenever they're described as black it's literal.

it can't just change from allegorical to literal.

this hebrew word זָכַךְ can mean purer or more dazzling but this one צָחַח just means whiter or more dazzling so I don't think it can mean purer, but must mean more dazzling.


Lamentations 4:7 says "their bodies more ruddy than rubies" it doesn't say "harder than rubies" or "more durable than rubbies" or "stronger than rubies".

it says "more ruddy than rubies" so it's referring to the colour of rubies and not any other properties.

and from reading Job 30:30 "My skin grows black and peels; my body burns with fever"

and Lamentations 4:8 "But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."

I think that they might have got black boils which can turn into very bad scabs if you itch them. it fits with the descriptions

http://drpinna.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/6348371.jpg

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=PuR4vyhLU2E8cM&tbnid=KJvO0cEiZb1D1M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.wmin.ac.uk%2F~redwayk%2Flec tures%2FMedically%2520important%2520bacteria.htm&ei=VaKbUdyvDqe60QWQxYDQBg&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNEoofK9JFr_jCx1hLckIAuVVMdLtQ&ust=1369235558786364



can brown skinned people become blacker?

or do red people become blacker?

both can turn darker





can brown skinned people become blacker? the jews were mistaken for egyptians which were african...the classic egyptians were not whiter then snow or red/european colored

I think I've answered these previously.







jesus was an unoriginal jew?

there were Jews 1,000s of years before Jesus.





its russian...and at the very least 300 years old..if not 500





russians took an orthodox christian painthing from africans and placed it in a ancient russian cathedral as a holy relic? and lets say they did....thats not the sole one that depicts hebrews as black...so the question remains why...

dude I don't even know where you got that picture. It could be a hoax for all I know. I wouldn't even know it was Jesus unless someone told me. I still don't know if it is Jesus.
Whereabouts in Russia was it found? Was your source reliable? etc




so now not only does red mean brown and white but also orange?

it's hard to pinpoint an exact colour but you basicly know what I mean. They're clay coloured.

diggy
05-21-2013, 02:48 PM
Just read the first post.

Kephrem
05-22-2013, 02:17 AM
red isn't a measure of melanin, it's a colour.

red skin is a lack of melanin. the melanated people of the earth are different shades of brown... european descended people are different shades of red from near albino to pink to a deep red


the Yemenites in that pictures obviously have red coloured skin. Don't look at the levels of melanin, look at the colour. It is red.


light brown..so lets agree to disagree on this point



sorry looks like I followed a false claim http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Lamanites/Curse/Red_skin

not exactly sure what he means by a skin of blackness because native americans definitely arent black.

native americans ranged from different shades of brown from light brown to dark brown which would be considered black by todays standards



that is just stretching it. albinos do have a slight pink colour but the Hebrew word for red which describes Edom is a deep blood red, it's not some shade of red, and it's definitely not pink.


so what youre saying or to clarify your over stance here is that red can be white-brown-orange, etc- but not pink! - which is in fact it's most closest shade?!


and "white" would have been a far more suitable colour to describe an albino rather than "red". It would just be unneccesarily awkard to call an albino red.


are redheds the closest looking people to albinos yes or no?






Lol the earth is all different colours. It's not just brown. I just showed you two pictures with red earth.


rich soil is black soil





red probably represents anger or fury in the context or maybe John just saw a red dragon in his dream and there was no real reason it was red.


you do know that as a nation edom was the only one not promised future salvation and is even written to be the recipient of great future judgement resulting in complete annhilation....is it then a coincidence esau/edom and the devil/satan are both classified as red?



black skin is used unfavourably in Lamentations 4:8 and Job 30:30. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

the situation was unfavourable not the color of the skin




yes brown people can grow blacker from the sun or from not eating enough. white people can grow blacker from tanning as well. Only very black people can't grow any darker.

which white people? like those milky white/red ones that are the center of your arguement? i think not



how come in two consecutive verses whenever the Jews are described as red and dazzingly white it's metaphorical but whenever they're described as black it's literal.

it can't just change from allegorical to literal.


again, the hebrews were thought to be an african people...

Roman historian Tacitus on the jews:

"Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/tacitus.html


this hebrew word זָכַךְ can mean purer or more dazzling but this one צָחַח just means whiter or more dazzling so I don't think it can mean purer, but must mean more dazzling.


Lamentations 4:7 says "their bodies more ruddy than rubies" it doesn't say "harder than rubies" or "more durable than rubbies" or "stronger than rubies".

it says "more ruddy than rubies" so it's referring to the colour of rubies and not any other properties.

the word ruddy has lost its original meaning in the description of a young David, it has ancient tie-ins with being "young" evidence lending to this is goliath as a famed warrior thought it beneath him to fight david being "ruddy"...which wouldnt make sense if it meant "red skin color"... but makes better sense if it meant young & fresh -- or in other words a fresh faced youth who had no buisness facing a proven warrior....logically his color wouldnt have been mentioned at all..


1st Samuel 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

Main Entry: fresh
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: energetic, healthy
Synonyms: active, alert, blooming, bouncing, bright, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, chipper, clear, dewy, fair, florid, glowing, good, hardy, invigorated, keen, like new, lively, refreshed, rehabilitated, relaxed, relieved, rested, restored, revived, rosy, ruddy, sprightly, spry, stimulated, undimmed, unfaded, unused, unwearied, unwithered, verdant, vigorous, vital, wholesome, young

and from reading Job 30:30 "My skin grows black and peels; my body burns with fever"

i read in job 30:30 "my skin is black on me" not that it "grows black and peels"...and even if it did become darker (close to jet black) thats not something milky white or red people can undergo



and Lamentations 4:8 "But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."

I think that they might have got black boils which can turn into very bad scabs if you itch them. it fits with the descriptions

http://drpinna.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/6348371.jpg

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=PuR4vyhLU2E8cM&tbnid=KJvO0cEiZb1D1M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fusers.wmin.ac.uk%2F~redwayk%2Flec tures%2FMedically%2520important%2520bacteria.htm&ei=VaKbUdyvDqe60QWQxYDQBg&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNEoofK9JFr_jCx1hLckIAuVVMdLtQ&ust=1369235558786364


milky white/red people cannot become blacker then soot, or as i read it have visage (meaning faces) "blacker then coal"



dude I don't even know where you got that picture. It could be a hoax for all I know. I wouldn't even know it was Jesus unless someone told me. I still don't know if it is Jesus.
Whereabouts in Russia was it found? Was your source reliable? etc


http://ru-icons.ru/part1/part14/1_1_137-8.htm

it's 17th century... and while blacks in the americas were being raped, robbed, and murdered in the americas...as well as kidnapped from west africa there was someone painting the geneology of jesus christ and all of the noble house of david the jews / ancient christians -- saints and the prophets -- as black people


it's hard to pinpoint an exact colour but you basicly know what I mean. They're clay coloured.


you do know the nubians and the egyptians in that image were related, right? or were they the so-called reddish/orangish relatives of the milky white/reddish folk you've been advocating for here?

John Nash
05-22-2013, 03:27 PM
red skin is a lack of melanin. the melanated people of the earth are different shades of brown... european descended people are different shades of red from near albino to pink to a deep red


white people have never been described as redskinned (ruddy is a different thing).





light brown..so lets agree to disagree on this point

copper brown/reddish





native americans ranged from different shades of brown from light brown to dark brown which would be considered black by todays standards

Arabs Indians and Asians are brown but they're not called black.






so what youre saying or to clarify your over stance here is that red can be white-brown-orange, etc- but not pink! - which is in fact it's most closest shade?!

no i'm saying Ancient Hebrews would have called an albino "white".

even though the Jews were off a brownish colour they would not call themselves that because they were trying to differentiate themselves from all the other people around them who would be brown so they called themselves "red" because they had a red tint and were redder than most of the others.

it's similiar to why Asians are called "yellow". they could be described as white to brown but people wanted to differeniate between them and other brown or white people so they called them "yellow" because of their yellow tint.

but there were no white people in the middle East when the Jews were there so what would be the need to call an albino "red".





are redheds the closest looking people to albinos yes or no?

except ancient Jews wouldnt have ever seen a redhead in their life so how does that apply.









rich soil is black soil

i'm looking skimming through Genesis and I see no mention of rich soil, however this word comes up a lot http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/0127.html






you do know that as a nation edom was the only one not promised future salvation and is even written to be the recipient of great future judgement resulting in complete annhilation....is it then a coincidence esau/edom and the devil/satan are both classified as red?

Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian, because thou wast a sojourner in his land.-Deutronomy 23:7

what about Doeg the Edomite? He is supposed to be a great example of a convert to Judaism.

Black is usually seen as the colour of evil and white as a colour of good or peace or purity, but trust me if you apply that to skin colour it doesn't work.

So yes it is a coincidence. The Devil used to be called the Black Man.





the situation was unfavourable not the color of the skin

the situation brought about that colour of skin. The colour of skin was unfavourable because it was a sympton but not because black people aren't good or anything like that.






which white people? like those milky white/red ones that are the center of your arguement? i think not

I don't think the Jews were originally white






again, the hebrews were thought to be an african people...

Roman historian Tacitus on the jews:

"Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/tacitus.html

lol u cant just nitpick. i remember studying Tacitus in school. He's not celebrated for historical accuracy but for his writing skills.

that account also says the Jews could've been from Assyria or that they were the Solymi. the Solymi lived in modern day Turkey.

so no they weren't thought to be African. people are just making random origin stories for the Jews stretching from Turkey to Ethiopia and Tacitus is just recording them all down without going in depth or backing up his points.




the word ruddy has lost its original meaning in the description of a young David, it has ancient tie-ins with being "young" evidence lending to this is goliath as a famed warrior thought it beneath him to fight david being "ruddy"...which wouldnt make sense if it meant "red skin color"... but makes better sense if it meant young & fresh -- or in other words a fresh faced youth who had no buisness facing a proven warrior....logically his color wouldnt have been mentioned at all..


1st Samuel 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

Main Entry: fresh
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: energetic, healthy
Synonyms: active, alert, blooming, bouncing, bright, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, chipper, clear, dewy, fair, florid, glowing, good, hardy, invigorated, keen, like new, lively, refreshed, rehabilitated, relaxed, relieved, rested, restored, revived, rosy, ruddy, sprightly, spry, stimulated, undimmed, unfaded, unused, unwearied, unwithered, verdant, vigorous, vital, wholesome, young


can u prove these ancient tie-ins with the Hebrew word for red meaning younger.

also you seem to be listing English synonyms and then saying that they're also synonyms in the Hebrew language. It doesn't work like that.

There's a Latin word called submittere which means both to raise and to lower and that obviously doesn't work for English.

Also the reason that "ruddy" is connected with "fresh" is because when white people exercise and are generally more healthy they get more of a red glow around their face.

In the Bible red skin was a sign of beauty because they thought that it was a nice tone.

The only way I can see the connection between "red" and "young" is because younger, healthier people would have more blood in their face and more of a red glow will shine through.

also it makes a lot of sense that Goliath would hate him for his redskin. He would realise that he was a Jew or some other Semite and then hate him for it.

But why do you think "red" and "young" are connected?


i read in job 30:30 "my skin is black on me" not that it "grows black and peels"...and even if it did become darker (close to jet black) thats not something milky white or red people can undergo

yes you can also translate it as that as well but read it in context. It's not just randomly saying that Job is a black man. That makes no sense. It's obviously connected to his wretched and deseased condition.

In the Black Death in Europe people got gangrene which caused their flesh and skin to die and turn coal black.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Acral_gangrene_due_to_plague.jpg/225px-Acral_gangrene_due_to_plague.jpg

so yes it can happen and sounds similiar to what happened to Job in Job 30:30 and the Jews in Lamentations 4:8





milky white/red people cannot become blacker then soot, or as i read it have visage (meaning faces) "blacker then coal"

gangrene as shown above can do this as can other deseases.




http://ru-icons.ru/part1/part14/1_1_137-8.htm

it's 17th century... and while blacks in the americas were being raped, robbed, and murdered in the americas...as well as kidnapped from west africa there was someone painting the geneology of jesus christ and all of the noble house of david the jews / ancient christians -- saints and the prophets -- as black people

How do you know it's from the 17th century? I don't even know if it's Russian. Someone could have just stuck that on the internet and said it was Russian. It doesn't even look that Russian tome. I don't find it very convincing. It gives no information on it and the source isn't credible. Do you even know whereabouts in Rome where it was found?





you do know the nubians and the egyptians in that image were related, right? or were they the so-called reddish/orangish relatives of the milky white/reddish folk you've been advocating for here?

hahahahaha everyone's related in some way. I said earlier that white people aren't red people. What precisely do you mean by related?