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Mic Tyson
06-09-2008, 09:53 PM
Recently, members of the Orthodox Muslim community posted a challenge to debate the Five Percent in our guest book. They subsequently emailed me with a personal challenge to debate on the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and their place in Islam. I accepted the challenge. On October 14, we received their first efforts in this debate which actually began earlier this year with myself and Brother Dawood. This effort is posted at the end of this build. This is my first response to the challenge.
Firstly, I would like to thank brother David Muhammad and the "Sunna Team" for the challenge and the opportunity to perfect Allah’s Light at the expense of the disbelievers. I also thank brother Aboo Sumayyah Anwar Dupuis for his words and for setting it off. However, I do wish, brother Aboo, that you did a little more (actually a lot more) homework. Your challenge to us was based on a critique of articles you found on the NGE website, such as "Why We are not Muslim" (See footnote #9). If you would have prepared a bit more (knowledge before you wisdom), you would have known that the philosophy and ideology of the individuals responsible for that literature is as anathema to us (The Allah Team) as they are to you and as you and your ideology is to us. In other words, as far as we are concerned, both of you are disbelievers and both of you are companions of our hellfire. Thus, to challenge us on the basis of your critique of their material was an exercise in futility. You would have fared better by posting those words on their website. You would have met with a less formidable opponent and therefore had a better shot at success. Oh well.
There are, however, a few points raised which I would like to address. You begin by dismissing the claim made by the NGE, the Five Percent, the NOI, and all knowledgeable persons that "black people are the original people of the planet earth." This, you say, is un-Islamic:
A Muslim doesn’t care about such issues due to the statement of the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) saying, "All of you are descendants of Aadam and Aadam came from dirt." And Allah says in his Noble Book what means: "O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you in the Sight of Allah is the believer who has the most piety. Verily Allah is All Knowing-Powerful."
Oh Allah! How glaringly self-defeating you are in this. To suggests that Muslims don’t care that Black People are the Original People by quoting the Qur’anic affirmation that all men descend from Adam is deceptive. The same Qur’an affirms that that same Adam was Black!
26. And surely We created man of sounding clay, of BLACK MUD (hama) fashioned into shape…
28. So when thy Lord said to the Angels: I am going to create a mortal of sounding clay, of Black Mud fashioned into
shape.
29. So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, FALL DOWN MAKING OBESIANCE TO HIM. (15:26-29)
Not only is the original man made from black mud (hama), he is made "complete" by the Breath of Allah after which the angels are ordered to "fall down and make obeisance (sajada)" to him. At the same time the Holy Qur’an says "And to Allah makes obeisance EVERY LIVING CREATURE that is in the heavens and the earth, AND THE ANGELS TOO…(16:49)" And also, "Whoever is in the heavens and the earth makes obeisance to ALLAH ONLY, willingly or unwillingly. (13:15)." How do you rectify Allah’s commandment to the angels to fall down making obeisance to this Original Black Man while at the same time He affirms that everyone, including the angels, makes obeisance to NONE BUT ALLAH? The Black material body made from mud is but the material conveyer which Allah uses to convey His Spirit to the material world. Just as the inferior copper brown wire is used to transmit the superior electric charge, so does the Black material body transmit the Supreme Spirit/Mind of Allah Ta’ala.
For you brother Aboo to forward such an argument means either you don’t know the Qur’an, making you guilty of that which you accuse us of ("If those who did not have knowledge remained silent, then there would be know disagreement."), or you know the Qur’an, know that it teaches Adam to be made of Black Mud, but are guilty of the most blatant attempt at deception, making you Al-Kadhdhhaab (The Liar).
It is an anthropological, archeological, biological, and historical fact that the first human beings to ever walk the earth were Black. Semitic Arabs today don’t care about such issues because, well, they were not first. In fact, they were last. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) however, had no problem accepting this truth. Thus, he said of his Black Companion Bilal, "O Bilal, I saw as if I entered Paradise and found you there already." (Muhammad Abdul-Rauf, Bilal, p. 73) Bilal was a former slave who became a companion. Why would the Holy Prophet, who was taught the Holy Qur’an by "One Mighty in Power" with no intermediary, who was allowed on the Night of Ascent to ascend Allah’s Sevens Heavens and bask in His Presence, why would he enter Paradise on the heels of this Black ex-slave? Because his people (Semitic Arabs) not only entered into existence on the heels of Bilal’s people, but entered Islam on the heels of Black people as well. Oh yes. Semitic Arabs didn’t teach Black people Islam. Black people taught the Semitic Arabs Islam. We established the worship of Allah Wa ‘ta’ala in ancient Arabia thousands of years before the first Semite was born. Scholars have conclusively shown that the entire Middle East, Arabia in particular, was originally populated by Black People. The native and indigenous Arabians are Black. (See Sertima, 1988;Reynolds, 1988; Houston, 1926; Baldwin, 1869; Higgins, 1836). Runoko Rashidi, in his "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: A Historical Review," notes:
The Arabia Peninsula, first populated over 8,000 years ago, was, like much of Asia, initially populated by Black people. Their descendants can still be found…in the peninsula’s southern extremities. Generally classified as Veddoids by anthropologists, these Blacks today form numerically significant portions of the regions Africoid Mahra population. (Rashidi, 1988, pp. 22-3)
French archeologists Françoise Lenormant, in the 19th century (1837-1883) acknowledged the same. He says in his two volume Ancient History of the East:
We may perceive the remembrance of a powerful empire founded by the Cushites in very early ages, apparently including the whole of Arabia Felix, and not only in Yemen proper. (p. 296)
It was these indigenous Black Arabians who were the first worshippers of Allah. Samual M. Zwemer, in his The Moslem Doctrine of God notes:
But history establishes beyond a shadow of doubt the even the pagan Arabs, before Muhammad’s time, knew their chief god by the name of Allah, and even in a sense proclaimed his unity. In pre-Islamic literature…’ilah’ is used for any god and Al-ilah, contracted to Allah…was the name of the Supreme….As final proof, we have the fact
that centuries before Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, or Temple at Mecca, was called Beit-Allah, the House of God. (pp. 24-26)
The Kaaba, or Beit-Allah (House of Allah) goes back to ancient antiquity (some say 6,000 years) when none but Blacks peopled Arabia (Baldwin, 1869). Philip Hitti, in his exhaustive History of the Arabs, notes as well:
Allah…was…the principle deity of Makkah. The name is an ancient one. It occurs in two south Arabic inscriptions…but abounds in the form HLH in the Lihyanite inscriptions of the fifth century b.c.. Lihyan, who evidently got the god from Syria, was the first center of the worship of this deity in Arabia. The name occurs as Hallah in the Safa inscriptions five centuries before Islam...(p.100)
The Lhyanites were a division of the ancient tribe of Hudhayl in the northern vicinity of Mecca and Ta’if who originated in Yemen, southern Arabia. The Encyclopedia of Islam says of them: “Their skins were black and shinning; their looks…were not hollow but round and teeming.” ("Hudhal," p. 540) These Blacks worshipped Allah 1,000 years before the Semites of Arabia. We worshipped Him in northern as well as southern Arabia. What is most important is we worshipped Him as a BLACK STORM DIETY. (Baldick, 1997). In Yemen, He was Allah Muqa, "The God who Waters Intensively. (Ibid., p. 25-6). (In my book, The Book of God, I have shown how the Black Storm God called Allah in ancient Arabia became the One God of the Qur’an and the Holy Prophet.)
The Holy Prophet knew his people owed their understanding of Allah and Islam to the native Blacks that coexisted with him in Arabia and ultimately erupted with him and spread Islam to the known world. This is why he warned his Semitic brethren to accept guidance, even if it comes from one whose skin is black and hair like dried raisins. It would be Black people who will, in the Last Days, guide the Arab World back to the mustakin or Straight Path. We are not indebted to the Semitic Arabs for Islam. They are indebted to us.
You try next to argue, using select Qur’an verses, that Allah is not a human being. Because Allah is here described as "The Self-Sufficient" and the "Ever-Living One," you maintain:
Could this possibly refer to a human being? Are people not dependent on each other? Do people not depend on oxygen to breath?
This, brother Aboo, is the difference between Allah Ta‘ala and man in his current, degraded and deprived state. Allah is a Man who is Self Sufficient, being Supreme in Knowledge, Power, and Holiness. Allah Ta’ala has the form of a man, the look of a man, but is different from man in his current state. What! You deny such? Then you deny the God of Prophet Muhammad. He saw his Lord, the Self-Sufficient One, in a vision, as reported by Ibn Abbas (Isnad sahih: Qatada (d.735)-Ikrima (d. 723)- Ibn Abass) and confirmed by K’ab al-Ahbar (d. 652) as a human being. Muhammad said, "I saw my Lord, in a dream, in a most beautiful form, a youth with rich hair, His feet in green, with two shoes of gold, on His face carpet of gold." This Vision of Allah was confirmed by some of the most important members of the Sahabba (Companions) and the Tabieen (Successors). Urwah ibn az-Zubair (d. 711), Al-Hasan al-Bashri (d. 740), Az-Zuhri (d. 742), among others, all confirmed this Vision. Allah, the Lord of All the Worlds, The Self Sufficient One, Who Neither sleeps Nor slumbers, Who begets not, nor was begotten, Who is All-Knowing and Unlike Anything, appeared to the Prophet in a dream in human form. (For a full discussion of this Vision, see The Great Debate Part II).
You make a curiously comical statement:
The reason Islam represents a threat to America is a socioeconomic one. The Muslim is forbidden from paying or accepting interest, this is a huge threat to the banks, who are based upon a system of interest Also, Islam recognizes that only the Sharee’ah (Islamic Law) can rule and govern man’s affairs-this represents a threat to democracy…. Islam is a complete "Deen" (system of life) which is too strong to be contained or confined by such consumer/materialistic based socioeconomic system that the very blending of the
two ways of life result in an explosion in the numbers of people who choose to become Muslims and prefer that system of life over their own society.
With this I must take a temporary leave of my academic voice to say, quit frankly, this is a crock of shit. Muslims who have come from the East have put the Holy Qur’an and the Sunna of the Prophet in the closet and completely assimilated to Western merchant morals. This is why, even though the Qur’an forbids the consumption of Pork, deems it an abominable animal not even to be touched, yet Arab Muslim merchants sell this divinely prohibited flesh to Blacks in every one of their stores in our community. Allah forbids the consumption of alcohol saying that the negative effects of it outweigh the good. Yet this doesn’t hinder Arab Muslim merchants from selling liquor to Blacks. And you have the nerve to suggest that the "spreading of Islam in North America," particularly in the Black Community, is do to so-called Orthodox Muslims. Like Hell. Muslims from the East do no missionary work in the hood. Your interest is in converting white people. Your business in the Black Community of pushing that which Allah has forbidden. When it comes to the "consumer/materialistic based socioeconomic system" Arab Muslim merchants say to hell with Qur’an, to hell with Sunna, to hell with "niggas."
In conclusion, I have only addressed those arguments which I felt were relevant. Much it simply wasn’t. The use of acronyms in religious language and the religious sanction (or lack thereof) of hip-hop are at best marginally relevant, at worst desperately trivial. In any case, it is of absolutely no significance to the Aqidah which we, the Five Percent in this poor part of the planet earth, stand upon: Man is God and God is a Man-a Black Man.
Peace.
True Islam.

HANZO
06-09-2008, 10:23 PM
the ending of the article jus proves that the NOI or watever they are not only have a thing against white ppl, but are now starting shit against the arabs to.

this is why this sect will never even be taken seriously by anyone who lives on the other side of the atlantic.

Black Man
06-10-2008, 10:27 AM
the ending of the article jus proves that the NOI or watever they are not only have a thing against white ppl, but are now starting shit against the arabs to.

this is why this sect will never even be taken seriously by anyone who lives on the other side of the atlantic.

Somebody got bombed. :'(

BornPower
06-10-2008, 01:03 PM
the ending of the article jus proves that the NOI or watever they are not only have a thing against white ppl, but are now starting shit against the arabs to.

this is why this sect will never even be taken seriously by anyone who lives on the other side of the atlantic.

if u truly understood the issue here, you wouldn't say this.

true wisdom, Mic

diggy
06-10-2008, 01:32 PM
People come to believe what they want based on their outlook, experience or what their elders did, and I don't believe any amount of arguementation will make them abandon that belief ( especially when it is not based on fact).

To each his own way.

LORD NOSE
06-10-2008, 03:12 PM
bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship -

Semitic Arabs didn’t teach Black people Islam.

they think that Islam began with Muhammad

when it is clear in the Quaran that the Quaran is a confirmation of the bible

who taught Muhammad and what was the religion of this person who taught Muhammad ?

and what "color" was he ?


Scholars have conclusively shown that the entire Middle East, Arabia in particular, was originally populated by Black People. The native and indigenous Arabians are Black.

True words

Cee Oh Vee
06-10-2008, 04:14 PM
bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship -



they think that Islam began with Muhammad

when it is clear in the Quaran that the Quaran is a confirmation of the bible

who taught Muhammad and what was the religion of this person who taught Muhammad ?

and what "color" was he ?



True words

No person taught Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

Mic Tyson
06-10-2008, 04:20 PM
No person taught Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

how do u know? where did he get his knowledge from?

HANZO
06-10-2008, 04:58 PM
Somebody got bombed. :'(

your white, and you wish you were from Jerusalem, cause of wu-tang.

Mic Tyson
06-10-2008, 06:02 PM
bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship





can u speak on that some more?

diggy
06-10-2008, 09:40 PM
bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship -

TRU. Have u heard of the online book ( it might not be online cuz the last time I checked it was gone but I got it on microsoft word) Arab Conspiracies Against Islam?

The worship of the rock at the kabaa has more to do with hinduism, some say.

they think that Islam began with Muhammad

They are wrong.

when it is clear in the Quaran that the Quaran is a confirmation of the bible

TRU. A confimation and completion.

who taught Muhammad and what was the religion of this person who taught Muhammad ?

Muhammad followed the religion of Abraham - monotheism. In the Quran, Abraham is said to be an excellent example for muslims to follow. Abraham is mentioned many many many more times in the Quran than Muhammad.

and what "color" was he ?

Which one? If your talking about Abraham, most likely Black cuz the ancient inhabitants of the region Iraq where he was from was black.

As for Muhammad, I'm not sure.

True words
.

diggy
06-10-2008, 09:42 PM
Kabaa a hindu temple?:

http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

Mic Tyson
06-11-2008, 01:06 AM
how did worshipping the kaaba become a muslim tradition?

diggy
06-11-2008, 08:09 PM
I don't know for sure. Most 'muslims' either follow hadith - traditions that are attributed to Muhammad 250-300 yrs after his physical death which are not reliable and mostly contradict the Quran, Or they misinterperet the Quran.

So my guess is 'muslims' did one of the two or both after he left.

LORD NOSE
06-11-2008, 08:28 PM
No person taught Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

ok - you don't want to call the Angel Jabril a person -

LORD NOSE
06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
can u speak on that some more?

http://web.lums.edu.pk/~arifz/namaz.html

Sun Charts to show them the position of the sun and the correct times of day to pray when in certain positions

alarm clocks - to alarm them when the sun is in a certain position

sun worship


The building that gets kissed, rubbed,and cried on during Hajj - the building that has that stone in it said to have been a stone that abraham held or some shit - a rock thats said to be a piece of the moon - they face it and make prayers


http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5002/meccakaabavu1.jpg

LORD NOSE
06-11-2008, 08:40 PM
how did worshipping the kaaba become a muslim tradition?

War


its fought in many ways -

Mic Tyson
06-11-2008, 09:11 PM
No person taught Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

well why was islam practiced way before his time?

my uncle told me when i was younger how Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were all followers of Islam, or the right path. And he is a Sunni Muslim. If Islam was practiced before muhammad, somebody had to have taught him

Olive Oil Goombah
06-11-2008, 09:15 PM
Muslims are the same as Christians, only they are about 622 years behind.

diggy
06-11-2008, 09:44 PM
well why was islam practiced way before his time?

my uncle told me when i was younger how Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were all followers of Islam, or the right path. And he is a Sunni Muslim. If Islam was practiced before muhammad, somebody had to have taught him

CeeDot is too young and has a lot of learning to do.

BTTR KNG KOOL
06-11-2008, 10:13 PM
NOI has empty arguments


Why argue against people who think english "Black Mud" is somehow relevant to the way of the Prophet or to Islam.

waste of time.

And what is that "hama" doing there?

Where the hell are they getting their translations from? Thats the question.

"Hama" is a city in Syria.

??????????????????

iCenkWO9WwY

Mic Tyson
06-12-2008, 02:29 AM
Al-hama’ supposedly means "black mud". i don't know shit about the arabic language but im sure he didn't mean the city in syria

Mic Tyson
06-12-2008, 02:35 AM
NOI has empty arguments


Why argue against people who think english "Black Mud" is somehow relevant to the way of the Prophet or to Islam.

??????????????????



“And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud [min hama’in masnoon]”

so you don't think that a passage claiming that man was created with "black mud" has any significance whatsoever? i don't see why it would be put in the koran if it wasn't relevant.

knewcheeze
06-12-2008, 03:03 PM
"
the ending of the article jus proves that the NOI or watever they are not only have a thing against white ppl, but are now starting shit against the arabs to.

this is why this sect will never even be taken seriously by anyone who lives on the other side of the atlantic."

have you noticed the white god worshippers make little 2 sentence statements like the one above and offer no proof at all

eye had a orthidox muslim tell me yesterday that its hard for them to find converts nowadays

no shit......its greeco/roman "you can't see Allah you slave" Islam

Prince Rai
06-12-2008, 04:44 PM
ok - you don't want to call the Angel Jabril a person -
that's what i was thinking.


peace,

Islam is older than the prophet Muhammad. Think about it, if Islam is the correct way of life to adopt in life, then why would it have been introduced so late on. Islam has been around since time began. Jesus, Moses and most others followed an Islamic lifestyle.

Muhammad (saw) was taught and given knowledge by an "angel". The lessons were Islam.

Cee Oh Vee
06-13-2008, 02:02 PM
well why was islam practiced way before his time?

my uncle told me when i was younger how Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were all followers of Islam, or the right path. And he is a Sunni Muslim. If Islam was practiced before muhammad, somebody had to have taught him

Wow.

The Angel Gabriel.

I'm not even gonna say anymore.

No person taught him.

Cee Oh Vee
06-13-2008, 02:08 PM
I don't know for sure. Most 'muslims' either follow hadith - traditions that are attributed to Muhammad 250-300 yrs after his physical death which are not reliable and mostly contradict the Quran, Or they misinterperet the Quran.

So my guess is 'muslims' did one of the two or both after he left.

You're right. Most Muslims do which is why we're in the mess we're in today.

I follow the 'Amal of the Ahl-al-Madina which means the Practice of the People of Madina (during the Prophet's (PBUH) time, and around three generations after), which isn't taught by books.

The people I'm with (yes, who I'M WITH, not my father, or mother, or the rest of my family) have a strong lineage of teachers back to the Prophet.

I could go into it a little more if you'd like.

Cee Oh Vee
06-13-2008, 02:18 PM
http://web.lums.edu.pk/~arifz/namaz.html

Sun Charts to show them the position of the sun and the correct times of day to pray when in certain positions

alarm clocks - to alarm them when the sun is in a certain position

sun worship


The building that gets kissed, rubbed,and cried on during Hajj - the building that has that stone in it said to have been a stone that abraham held or some shit - a rock thats said to be a piece of the moon - they face it and make prayers


http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5002/meccakaabavu1.jpg

That's a smart way of looking at it, but incorrect nonetheless.

We pray five times a day because this is what Allah has ordered us to do. Having set times for prayer is good for self-discipline amongst other things.

These times are at dawn, midday, afternoon, sunset and night, which to me (a 14 year old kid with a lot to learn) seems logical.

We DO NOT worship the Ka'aba. We merely face it during prayer because it is seen as the holiest place in Islam. Before this; Muslims prayed facing Jerusalem.

Personally; I don't agree with the rubbing, kissing, etc. of the Ka'aba during Hajj. But as with all things, you cannot judge something on what a small group of people do.

PEACE.

LORD NOSE
06-13-2008, 02:50 PM
That's a smart way of looking at it, but incorrect nonetheless.

We pray five times a day because this is what Allah has ordered us to do. Having set times for prayer is good for self-discipline amongst other things.

These times are at dawn, midday, afternoon, sunset and night, which to me (a 14 year old kid with a lot to learn) seems logical.

We DO NOT worship the Ka'aba. We merely face it during prayer because it is seen as the holiest place in Islam. Before this; Muslims prayed facing Jerusalem.

Personally; I don't agree with the rubbing, kissing, etc. of the Ka'aba during Hajj. But as with all things, you cannot judge something on what a small group of people do.

PEACE.


having a chart that indicates to the follower the position of the sun according to linear time is sun worship
you can pray to Allah 20 times a day without using the positions of the sun to do it
enough people bow down to that rock in that building unknowingly that they are indirectly idol worshipping

the pagan practices of the arabs have been incorporated into whats considered Islam

the practices are clearly not Islamic at all - and those who so call practice true Islam, come to america and lose their minds to money - selling swine, wine, guns and drugs in the black community - they call us brother/ahki, but no black man can be found working in any of their stores

Cee Oh Vee
06-13-2008, 03:02 PM
having a chart that indicates to the follower the position of the sun according to linear time is sun worship
you can pray to Allah 20 times a day without using the positions of the sun to do it
enough people bow down to that rock in that building unknowingly that they are indirectly idol worshipping

the pagan practices of the arabs have been incorporated into whats considered Islam

the practices are clearly not Islamic at all - and those who so call practice true Islam, come to america and lose their minds to money - selling swine, wine, guns and drugs in the black community - they call us brother/ahki, but no black man can be found working in any of their stores

Firstly, I don't use a chart - I have eyes. I do not worship the sun. I worship God.

Secondly, you're quite right - you can pray to God how ever much you want; at any time, voluntarily. However praying these set prayers is compulsory.

I can understand why you would think 'bowing' to 'a rock' is a pagan practice. But it is not true. The Ka'aba is used solely as a focal point for prayer. Again, before this was seen as the holiest place in Islam, they used to pray facing Jerusalem.

And finally, again you seem to be judging Islam on what some Muslims do.

Exalted is God.
PEACE.

LORD NOSE
06-13-2008, 03:09 PM
Firstly, I don't use a chart - I have eyes. I do not worship the sun. I worship God.

why do you need eyes during prayer ?

what are you looking for with those eyes ?

the position of the sun possibly ?

Secondly, you're quite right - you can pray to God how ever much you want; at any time, voluntarily. However praying these set prayers is compulsory.

praying at what set times ?

there is no compulsion in islam - isn't that the saying ?
I can understand why you would think 'bowing' to 'a rock' is a pagan practice.

you should be able to understand that bowing to a rock is pagan worship
its not just something i think, its something i know -

But it is not true.

so are you telling me that bowing to a rock isn't pagan worship ?

The Ka'aba is used solely as a focal point for prayer.

theres a rock in there - why would that rock be a focal point in prayer ?

Again, before this was seen as the holiest place in Islam, they used to pray facing Jerusalem.


then the pagan arabs found a way to incorporate more of their paganism into your muhammadism

And finally, again you seem to be judging Islam on what some Muslims do.

Exalted is God.
PEACE.


there is only one Islam

Cee Oh Vee
06-13-2008, 03:19 PM
I'm not even going to post a proper reply because I always find myself having to repeat what I've said in previous posts. It's not worth it is it?

LORD NOSE
06-13-2008, 03:27 PM
I'm not even going to post a proper reply

why tell me that you're not going to give a proper reply ?

you can't answer anything anymore because Now that facts are in your face, you have faced a dilemma - you either agree and change from what you thought was right, OR continue in your madness - the later will bring you extra problems cause now you know better -


because I always find myself having to repeat what I've said in previous posts. It's not worth it is it?


none of your words are missed - i'm the one doing the repeating - i have to show these things in different angles because you are so blind in so many ways - i am correct in what i'm saying - you know it - i know it - but you cannot face the truth of the situation and chose to follow a false path - go on in your madness - go on and label everyone else sinners and infidels - go on thinking that what you are doing is not shirk - the messiah comes to bring a new way for a new people and a new day - you go on practicing them old ass distorted religious views -

-The A to the Z-
06-13-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm sorry, you mean to say this was a debate about The 5 Percent Nation responding to True Islam.

You can't, in the 20/21st Century, form a cult preaching matters exclusively to a small group of individuals, matters which may relate occasionally to the teachings of Islam, and then suddenly proclaim yourself the 'True' form of a centuries-old, well-established religion.

It's like................Lil' Wayne proclaiming him the Greatest Rapper of All Time.

You cannot claim to have discovered any high enough density of [un]'truths' to challenge a religion founded over 1400 years ago.

The chambers of Truth have been eroded over time, so uncovering any new Truths is a much more difficult task than you could imagine, or for that matter undertake.

Instead you have only dusted off the rubble, the ruins of such Truths from the Past-you are only dusting off select portions of the whole Wall of Truth, but according to your limited perspective, you think you have uncovered the whole .

The 5 Percent Nation and Nation Of Islam are nothing more than Black Empowerment cults, a modernised version of the African tribes of the Homeland.

The 5 Percent Nation and Nation Of Islam are Racist institutions that are not only harmful to the public perception of Black People, but to Islam also, and both groups would be much happier with these cults forsaken.

Even the Wu-Tang Clan are representing the Nation much less than when they were ignorant Ghetto individuals, and not because they are 'sellouts', because they have integrated with the 'Devil' White Man, not because they have been 'blinded by deception'.
Conversely, they have outgrown the need for an Instituition to Empower them with a sense of Supremacy or to give them an Existentialist objective.

They have become successful and seen the whole World, the whole Truth, the whole Wall, and have come to a conclusive realisation.

The 5 Percent Nation, when practised in the Ghettos among Black people to other Black People willing to listen is fine, they need the teachings to use as a crutch to support them through their life, which will inevitably be full of strife and pessimism.

But when you try to spread your cult teachings and preach to those not in need of support, they become a pestilence, and you can only get upset when your moral foundations are spread thin and wide, and the holes are exposed.

Mic Tyson
06-13-2008, 05:04 PM
I'm sorry, you mean to say this was a debate about The 5 Percent Nation responding to True Islam.



true islam is a person and he was challenged by sunni muslims who said that 5 prcenters where not real islam. my post was true islam's rebuttal

Mic Tyson
06-13-2008, 05:22 PM
You can't, in the 20/21st Century, form a cult preaching matters exclusively to a small group of individuals, matters which may relate occasionally to the teachings of Islam, and then suddenly proclaim yourself the 'True' form of a centuries-old, well-established religion.

being well established doesn't mean its automatically right. look at christianity. you think it started with millions of people? no, it started with very few people and it is a cult just like all religions


You cannot claim to have discovered any high enough density of [un]'truths' to challenge a religion founded over 1400 years ago.

why can't you? just because a religion is over 1000 years old doesn't mean its right and you aren't allowed to prove its flaws. a religion being old doesn't mean its holy. if anything, its been 1400 years so we should definitely have enough knowledge of it to disprove it more than people could when it just started. people find new discoveries everyday. i think diggy found an article about the kaaba having more to do with hinduism than islam.


The 5 Percent Nation and Nation Of Islam are nothing more than Black Empowerment cults, a modernised version of the African tribes of the Homeland.

all religions are cults. and whats wrong with black empowerment? not saying i believe what the NOI say, but do you know how many black people they have helped? look at malcolm x

The 5 Percent Nation and Nation Of Islam are Racist institutions that are not only harmful to the public perception of Black People, but to Islam also, and both groups would be much happier with these cults forsaken.

Without the NOI i think islam would still be practically unknown in america, regardless of what kind it was

Heavy-Mental
06-13-2008, 08:12 PM
big ups to the 14yr old, rockin it

diggy
06-13-2008, 09:46 PM
You're right. Most Muslims do which is why we're in the mess we're in today.

I follow the 'Amal of the Ahl-al-Madina which means the Practice of the People of Madina (during the Prophet's (PBUH) time, and around three generations after), which isn't taught by books.

The people I'm with (yes, who I'M WITH, not my father, or mother, or the rest of my family) have a strong lineage of teachers back to the Prophet.

I could go into it a little more if you'd like.

Why do you follow people of madina instead of the Quran ( and call yourself muslim ) ?

diggy
06-13-2008, 09:50 PM
CeeDot, u have alot to learn. Study the Quran instead of people and u will see the truth.

CeeDot, if the kaabaa was destroyed and the black rock was obliterated, would u still pray facing Mecca?

LORD NOSE
06-14-2008, 04:01 AM
I'm sorry, you mean to say this was a debate about The 5 Percent Nation responding to True Islam.

You can't, in the 20/21st Century, form a cult preaching matters exclusively to a small group of individuals, matters which may relate occasionally to the teachings of Islam, and then suddenly proclaim yourself the 'True' form of a centuries-old, well-established religion.

Members of The NGE do not consider themselves Muslims


It's like................Lil' Wayne proclaiming him the Greatest Rapper of All Time.

if that was the case then it would be like that - but thats not the case

You cannot claim to have discovered any high enough density of [un]'truths' to challenge a religion founded over 1400 years ago.


they said the same shit to jesus

The chambers of Truth have been eroded over time, so uncovering any new Truths is a much more difficult task than you could imagine, or for that matter undertake.

i think you made this up

Instead you have only dusted off the rubble, the ruins of such Truths from the Past-you are only dusting off select portions of the whole Wall of Truth, but according to your limited perspective, you think you have uncovered the whole .

in the 70's people used to smoke cigarettes at the dinner table with babies in their lap - later on in the 90's smoking got banned in many places because people started to realize the error of their ways - today we have a higher over all understanding

The 5 Percent Nation and Nation Of Islam are nothing more than Black Empowerment cults, a modernised version of the African tribes of the Homeland.

what do you really know about the 2 ?

The 5 Percent Nation and Nation Of Islam are Racist institutions that are not only harmful to the public perception of Black People, but to Islam also, and both groups would be much happier with these cults forsaken.

so the oppressed stood up to the oppressor who abused them for over 400 years and now you wanna call them racist ?

Even the Wu-Tang Clan are representing the Nation much less than when they were ignorant Ghetto individuals, and not because they are 'sellouts', because they have integrated with the 'Devil' White Man, not because they have been 'blinded by deception'.


every great leader or entertainer who put down and denounced the lessons fell off - if its true what you say about WU, perhaps thats the reason why their music doesn't have that shine any more - most of their consumers are white - Money over truth is hard for some

Conversely, they have outgrown the need for an Instituition to Empower them with a sense of Supremacy or to give them an Existentialist objective.


how do you know this about them ?


They have become successful and seen the whole World, the whole Truth, the whole Wall, and have come to a conclusive realisation.

they have made money and want to keep money

The 5 Percent Nation, when practised in the Ghettos among Black people to other Black People willing to listen is fine, they need the teachings to use as a crutch to support them through their life, which will inevitably be full of strife and pessimism.


you must be white - the fuck you know about the ghetto

But when you try to spread your cult teachings and preach to those not in need of support, they become a pestilence, and you can only get upset when your moral foundations are spread thin and wide, and the holes are exposed.

none have been exposed yet - people try but they get beat beyond recognition - you did your thing though - sat there and typed a bunch of shit about a Movement you know nothing about - white supremacy is the problem - Not the NGE or the NOI - the NOI and the NGE is the cure that wipes white supremacy out of the systems of oppressed black men and women - we don't need your approval or understanding -

LORD NOSE
06-14-2008, 04:03 AM
Without the NOI i think islam would still be practically unknown in america, regardless of what kind it was


so true

Cee Oh Vee
06-14-2008, 12:02 PM
Why do you follow people of madina instead of the Quran ( and call yourself muslim ) ?

I follow the teachings of the Qur'an and go by them in the way of the people of Madina; to avoid any bad innovation.

Cee Oh Vee
06-14-2008, 12:04 PM
CeeDot, u have alot to learn. Study the Quran instead of people and u will see the truth.

CeeDot, if the kaabaa was destroyed and the black rock was obliterated, would u still pray facing Mecca?

@ first comment; read my last post.

It wouldn't happen.

LORD NOSE
06-14-2008, 02:19 PM
I follow the teachings of the Qur'an and go by them in the way of the people of Madina; to avoid any bad innovation.


Originally Posted by diggy http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1206005#post1206005)
CeeDot, u have alot to learn. Study the Quran instead of people and u will see the truth.




There is bad innovation already incorporated into the religion because the Quaran is not understood without the Bible - The Quaran is a confirmation of the Bible

Cee Oh Vee
06-14-2008, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by diggy http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1206005#post1206005)
CeeDot, u have alot to learn. Study the Quran instead of people and u will see the truth.




There is bad innovation already incorporated into the religion because the Quaran is not understood without the Bible - The Quaran is a confirmation of the Bible

The Bible is not available in it's original form.

Mic Tyson
06-14-2008, 03:39 PM
The Bible is not available in it's original form.

neither is the Koran. but the bible still helps u understand the koran, even if its not 100 percent original

LORD NOSE
06-14-2008, 03:47 PM
The Bible is not available in it's original form.

then ......you don't understand the Quaran

Cee Oh Vee
06-14-2008, 05:15 PM
then ......you don't understand the Quaran

Damn. You're right. Maybe I should just wish I was black and call myself allah then.

You truly understand the Qur'an, don't you?

Why haven't I realised until now?

Cee Oh Vee
06-14-2008, 05:21 PM
neither is the Koran. but the bible still helps u understand the koran, even if its not 100 percent original

The Qur'an still is in it's original form. It hasn't been changed although things can be misunderstood due to bad translation, etc. Qur'an in Arabic is in it's original form.

You're right. But surely since it's been changed and altered - you can easily misinterpret thing, and lose meanings, etc.

What people have to remember is; the Qur'an is meant for everybody but it takes a lifetime to fully understand it, even then very few people can manage it.

The very proof is 'Alif Laam Meem'.

PEACE.

-The A to the Z-
06-14-2008, 09:18 PM
true islam is a person and he was challenged by sunni muslims who said that 5 prcenters where not real islam. my post was true islam's rebuttal
Well.....that's a silly name then.

being well established doesn't mean its automatically right. look at christianity. you think it started with millions of people? no, it started with very few people and it is a cult just like all religions


why can't you? just because a religion is over 1000 years old doesn't mean its right and you aren't allowed to prove its flaws. a religion being old doesn't mean its holy. if anything, its been 1400 years so we should definitely have enough knowledge of it to disprove it more than people could when it just started. people find new discoveries everyday. i think diggy found an article about the kaaba having more to do with hinduism than islam.

When I said that a religion was well established, I wasn't only referring to how well known and accepted it is, but also how deep and complex it's history expands to, not just it's Height and Width, but its Bredth also.

Islam and Christianity and Judaism and Hinduism and all the old school religions have a series of lessons and rules and guidelines to be applied to one's lifestyles in order to practise them properly, and the History behind these lessons and rules has been influenced by a number of contemporary factors, factors which we were not and will not ever be able to witness or lay claim to, or in some cases comprehend.

Again you are observing only from your limited perspective, and how these rules and their application today appear to be in some cases outdated, but they were made at the time to be relevant to the People of the time.

And even though the People, who, like you, felt the need to rebel against these establishments and subsequently mess up the order of society, many of these stipulations still hold purpose to this day, and should be adhered to by true believers.



all religions are cults. and whats wrong with black empowerment? not saying i believe what the NOI say, but do you know how many black people they have helped? look at malcolm x



Without the NOI i think islam would still be practically unknown in america, regardless of what kind it was

No, Cults are Cults and stay Cults.
True Religions that survive to this day were societies, with a system of beliefs to keep order within the society.

Some religions are off-shoots of the original societies, different sectors all following the same basic systematic structure, but with different developments in different areas of the structure.

The 5 Percent Nation/Of Islam, on the other hand, are spin-offs of the original society, not trying to develop the system, but instead trying to revolutionize the system, in their eyes. The spin-off does not retain the same basic vision as it's predecessors.

And there's nothing wrong with Black Empowerment to a degree, as long as they don't try to en/force their beliefs and theories onto those on the outside...the problems start when Black Empowerment becomes Black Supremacy.

And indeed look at Malcolm X, look how it helped him.

It helped him become a hinderence to the work of Martin Luther King, and only once he embraced True Islam and was truly enlightened did he discover his purpose and potential...upon when he was promptly killed by the NOI, again hindering the progress of the Black progression Movements.

As for the last part, I'm not too sure about the history on that, but either way introducing Islam to a country and presenting it in a way in accordance to the Nation Of Islam's practises is hardly progressive for the perception of the actual Religion.

Members of The NGE do not consider themselves Muslims

Then why do they call themselves 'Muslims'.
It would be alot more clear if they showed that they bear no allegiance to Islam....if they stop referring to themselves with the same term as followers of the Religion....


they said the same shit to jesus
The religions Jesus was challenging were not those substantiated by centuries of proof.

i think you made this up
Damn right I made it up.....it's called an analogy.

in the 70's people used to smoke cigarettes at the dinner table with babies in their lap - later on in the 90's smoking got banned in many places because people started to realize the error of their ways - today we have a higher over all understanding
That is a case of modern progression removing modern misconceptions, they can be judged against the beliefs and runnings of the different decades, a modern cult challenging a Millenia old religion cannot be compared.

what do you really know about the 2 ?
I know:
They're founded by Black people;
They founded for Black people.

The inhabitants of Earth cannot survive by adhering to a system of beliefs developed only for a small portion of the population.


so the oppressed stood up to the oppressor who abused them for over 400 years and now you wanna call them racist ?
Their ancestors were used and abused, not them.
The ancestors of the White people used and abused, not the White people now, necessarily.

What are they fighting for now?

Why are they prolonging the beef when it shouldn't be their fight?

Hell, the ancestors fought to ensure a better future for the current present....
The descendants are just fighting to disrupt the, admittedly volatile yin-yang balance between the 2 races, instead of embracing differences with indifference.


every great leader or entertainer who put down and denounced the lessons fell off - if its true what you say about WU, perhaps thats the reason why their music doesn't have that shine any more - most of their consumers are white - Money over truth is hard for some

they have made money and want to keep money

I won't comment on these, because I think they are untrue, simply.


how do you know this about them ?
I'll be honest, having never been a Ghetto Black male, or a Wu-Tang Clan member, I cannot know for fact whether this is true for them, because this is my limited perspective on the subject challenging your limited perspective, but with significantly less distortional integration of the audaciously fallacious teachings of the 5 Percent Nation.

you must be white - the fuck you know about the ghetto
Again friend, this is an exhibition of the limited scope of the perception of the World you live in.

I am in fact not White.

And neither am I Black.

I am, however, proud of my race and culture, but do not feel compelled to force my opinions on my own cuture onto to those outside of the culture who aren't interested in listening, or to those happily well-established in their own society, although I will let them know how I feel about the subject, of course, because one's opinion should definitely be shared, as long as it's presented constructively and thoughtfully.

And indeed, my friend,
I am not from the Ghetto, and I do not know how it is run down in that type of society.

However I am also not from a safe, conformist, exceedingly wealthy Suburban background.

In fact, I am from a mid-point between the two societies, a culturally diverse, rather well-to-do, quite comfortable environment, with a strong prevalance of violent crime and illegal trade and occasionally gang culture, with a strong sense of disillusion and underachievement and aimlessness within the youth generation.

As such, I believe I am a better representative of how society should be run than either of the two other extreme examples.


none have been exposed yet - people try but they get beat beyond recognition - you did your thing though - sat there and typed a bunch of shit about a Movement you know nothing about - white supremacy is the problem - Not the NGE or the NOI - the NOI and the NGE is the cure that wipes white supremacy out of the systems of oppressed black men and women - we don't need your approval or understanding -

You can defend your belief system, I will eternally continue to defend mine.

If approval or understanding is not what you're looking for, please refrain from imposing your beliefs upon us, and continuing to persevere with point out the finer details of your belief system to those not willing to listen, and in the process point out the flaws in your Cult system.

This will be an everlasting battle with no clear victor, until The Day of Judgement.

Upon when who, exactly will you be answering to, if you believe yourself to be Allah?

If so, what is your purpose in Life?

Because I know, I have understanding and knowledge enough of myself and of the world around me to know that my purpose in Life, is to secure a desirable position in the Afterlife, and to create a desirable climate for my future children, Insha'allah, to continue the eternal Struggle for Bliss.

You cannot hope to live The Dream if you are not willing to experience The Nightmare.

Mic Tyson
06-14-2008, 10:08 PM
Aight, First of all, Islam means the right path. The right path is not a religion.

Second, Just because a religion is old doesn't mean its valid. A religious book is not enough proof that the religion is just, especially, when some religions pick and choose what to put in their book.

Again, look at Christianity. its a false religion but it is the most popualr in the world. It is based on myths. And Jesus didn't want another religion so its even more ridiculous.

Third, you said that "inhabitants of Earth cannot survive by adhering to a system of beliefs developed only for a small portion of the population." What religions are for the whole population? the one with white pictures of their "savior"?

diggy
06-14-2008, 11:35 PM
Arab Conspiracies Against Islam is an online book which reveals the lies the Arabs have propagated against the world about the teachings which are taught in the Quran.

It shows how words in the Quran are twisted by Arabs to mean different things.

It reveals the tru nature of what so-called 'muslims' are doing and the truth of what the teachings of the Quran really are.

It also talks about idol worship and the kaabaa and how it relates to hinduism.

I hope you all read it. It is long, but worth it.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/416886/Aidid-Sadad-Arab-Conspiracies-against-Islam



.

Mic Tyson
06-15-2008, 03:36 AM
^^^^ yo thanx for that link. i was readin some of it and i like how the author talks about not worshipping God but being a righteous person and what not. Praise God through your actions

diggy
06-16-2008, 02:20 AM
I follow the 'Amal of the Ahl-al-Madina which means the Practice of the People of Madina (during the Prophet's (PBUH) time, and around three generations after), which isn't taught by books.

The people I'm with (yes, who I'M WITH, not my father, or mother, or the rest of my family) have a strong lineage of teachers back to the Prophet.

I could go into it a little more if you'd like.

So u follow teachings from people ( hadith/stories) when what Muhammad taught was the Quran?

What about people who do not have teachers with a lineage back to the Prophet? Are you the only tru 'muslim' and others are false?


I follow the teachings of the Qur'an and go by them in the way of the people of Madina; to avoid any bad innovation.

So which one do u follow, Quran or traditions revealed to u by 'teachers'?

It says in the Quran.."We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear: (qur-anun mubeenun)" [36:69]

And..."By the Book that makes things clear,- (Waalkitabi almubeeni)" [43:2, 44:2]

If the Quran is clear ( and it is) then why do you have to follow teachings about people who lived more than 1400 yrs ago and why do u have to worry about doing an innovation?

LORD NOSE
06-16-2008, 04:55 AM
Damn. You're right. Maybe I should just wish I was black and call myself allah then.

You truly understand the Qur'an, don't you?

Why haven't I realised until now?

you can't face the facts so you hurl, mild insults and sarcastic nonsense

i understand the quaran better than those who have not read the bible

there are allot of things you haven't realized yet - your fear of letting go of false teachings will prevent you from realizing much more

LORD NOSE
06-16-2008, 05:02 AM
What people have to remember is; the Qur'an is meant for everybody but it takes a lifetime to fully understand it, even then very few people can manage it.



so if very few can understand it, how come so many wanna claim that the NOI goes against whats in it ? -



and how can you blindly follow those who claim to understand the book if you feel that it takes a lifetime to understand it ?


the Quaran was passed down orally - people wrote down what others claimed Muhammad told them - how is this pure ?

The Bible = The Writings
The Quaran = The Readings

can't know and understand one without the other

LORD NOSE
06-16-2008, 05:03 AM
Well.....that's a silly name then.





When I said that a religion was well established, I wasn't only referring to how well known and accepted it is, but also how deep and complex it's history expands to, not just it's Height and Width, but its Bredth also.

Islam and Christianity and Judaism and Hinduism and all the old school religions have a series of lessons and rules and guidelines to be applied to one's lifestyles in order to practise them properly, and the History behind these lessons and rules has been influenced by a number of contemporary factors, factors which we were not and will not ever be able to witness or lay claim to, or in some cases comprehend.

Again you are observing only from your limited perspective, and how these rules and their application today appear to be in some cases outdated, but they were made at the time to be relevant to the People of the time.

And even though the People, who, like you, felt the need to rebel against these establishments and subsequently mess up the order of society, many of these stipulations still hold purpose to this day, and should be adhered to by true believers.




No, Cults are Cults and stay Cults.
True Religions that survive to this day were societies, with a system of beliefs to keep order within the society.

Some religions are off-shoots of the original societies, different sectors all following the same basic systematic structure, but with different developments in different areas of the structure.

The 5 Percent Nation/Of Islam, on the other hand, are spin-offs of the original society, not trying to develop the system, but instead trying to revolutionize the system, in their eyes. The spin-off does not retain the same basic vision as it's predecessors.

And there's nothing wrong with Black Empowerment to a degree, as long as they don't try to en/force their beliefs and theories onto those on the outside...the problems start when Black Empowerment becomes Black Supremacy.

And indeed look at Malcolm X, look how it helped him.

It helped him become a hinderence to the work of Martin Luther King, and only once he embraced True Islam and was truly enlightened did he discover his purpose and potential...upon when he was promptly killed by the NOI, again hindering the progress of the Black progression Movements.

As for the last part, I'm not too sure about the history on that, but either way introducing Islam to a country and presenting it in a way in accordance to the Nation Of Islam's practises is hardly progressive for the perception of the actual Religion.



Then why do they call themselves 'Muslims'.
It would be alot more clear if they showed that they bear no allegiance to Islam....if they stop referring to themselves with the same term as followers of the Religion....



The religions Jesus was challenging were not those substantiated by centuries of proof.


Damn right I made it up.....it's called an analogy.


That is a case of modern progression removing modern misconceptions, they can be judged against the beliefs and runnings of the different decades, a modern cult challenging a Millenia old religion cannot be compared.


I know:
They're founded by Black people;
They founded for Black people.

The inhabitants of Earth cannot survive by adhering to a system of beliefs developed only for a small portion of the population.



Their ancestors were used and abused, not them.
The ancestors of the White people used and abused, not the White people now, necessarily.

What are they fighting for now?

Why are they prolonging the beef when it shouldn't be their fight?

Hell, the ancestors fought to ensure a better future for the current present....
The descendants are just fighting to disrupt the, admittedly volatile yin-yang balance between the 2 races, instead of embracing differences with indifference.




I won't comment on these, because I think they are untrue, simply.



I'll be honest, having never been a Ghetto Black male, or a Wu-Tang Clan member, I cannot know for fact whether this is true for them, because this is my limited perspective on the subject challenging your limited perspective, but with significantly less distortional integration of the audaciously fallacious teachings of the 5 Percent Nation.


Again friend, this is an exhibition of the limited scope of the perception of the World you live in.

I am in fact not White.

And neither am I Black.

I am, however, proud of my race and culture, but do not feel compelled to force my opinions on my own cuture onto to those outside of the culture who aren't interested in listening, or to those happily well-established in their own society, although I will let them know how I feel about the subject, of course, because one's opinion should definitely be shared, as long as it's presented constructively and thoughtfully.

And indeed, my friend,
I am not from the Ghetto, and I do not know how it is run down in that type of society.

However I am also not from a safe, conformist, exceedingly wealthy Suburban background.

In fact, I am from a mid-point between the two societies, a culturally diverse, rather well-to-do, quite comfortable environment, with a strong prevalance of violent crime and illegal trade and occasionally gang culture, with a strong sense of disillusion and underachievement and aimlessness within the youth generation.

As such, I believe I am a better representative of how society should be run than either of the two other extreme examples.




You can defend your belief system, I will eternally continue to defend mine.

If approval or understanding is not what you're looking for, please refrain from imposing your beliefs upon us, and continuing to persevere with point out the finer details of your belief system to those not willing to listen, and in the process point out the flaws in your Cult system.

This will be an everlasting battle with no clear victor, until The Day of Judgement.

Upon when who, exactly will you be answering to, if you believe yourself to be Allah?

If so, what is your purpose in Life?

Because I know, I have understanding and knowledge enough of myself and of the world around me to know that my purpose in Life, is to secure a desirable position in the Afterlife, and to create a desirable climate for my future children, Insha'allah, to continue the eternal Struggle for Bliss.

You cannot hope to live The Dream if you are not willing to experience The Nightmare.

not reading all of this

Mic Tyson
06-16-2008, 03:22 PM
The Bible = The Writings
The Quaran = The Readings

can't know and understand one without the other

thats a pretty good way of lookin at it

-The A to the Z-
06-23-2008, 05:00 PM
Third, you said that "inhabitants of Earth cannot survive by adhering to a system of beliefs developed only for a small portion of the population." What religions are for the whole population? the one with white pictures of their "savior"?

All real religions are available to anyone seeking to enlighten themselves and follow the systems outlined by said religion.

Depictions of a White Saviour in no way make the religion exclusive to a Race in any way, this is just a very ignorant and overly-analytical view.

not reading all of this

Well, that's your loss.

If you refuse to acknowledge the work and appreciate the perspective of others on a subject, you are selectively choosing to accept only what you believe is right, not willing to adapt or learn...a classic example of what I believe the 5% Nation and Nation Of Islam represent.

And please do not misconstrue my lengthy absence from replying to this thread as a sign of 'Victory' on your behalf.

It is simply a matter of me not finding any points to develop upon or debate in this strictly subjective discussion.

But if I must, I'll accept that the 5% Nation may be on to something with the '0' Cypher principle.

I believe that the Circle has many purposes yet to be discovered.

However, this is no reflection on the Principles of the Nation itself, which are still saturated with fallacies.

IBRAHIM
08-23-2008, 08:04 AM
Questions to fivers: 1. Did jews kill Jesus (pbuh)? 2. Allah is one. Is this the right statement?

LORD NOSE
08-23-2008, 11:18 AM
Questions to fivers: 1. Did jews kill Jesus (pbuh)? 2. Allah is one. Is this the right statement?

1. did jews kill jesus ?

there are people who claim to be jews
and there are people who claim that a man named jesus was killed by people who claimed to be jews

2. Allah is one.



AND ?


Is this the right statement ?


???

IBRAHIM
08-23-2008, 04:01 PM
1. It's not an answer. 2. U think that all black people are "gods". But in the Quran we read that there is One and Only God.

Mic Tyson
08-23-2008, 04:09 PM
1. did jews kill jesus ?

there are people who claim to be jews
and there are people who claim that a man named jesus was killed by people who claimed to be jews


i thought back in jesus' time there were no people that claimed to be jews except the real jews?

Mic Tyson
08-23-2008, 04:11 PM
2. U think that all black people are "gods". But in the Quran we read that there is One and Only God.

doesn't mean its true

LORD NOSE
08-23-2008, 04:25 PM
i thought back in jesus' time there were no people that claimed to be jews except the real jews?


claimed claims

LORD NOSE
08-23-2008, 04:35 PM
1. It's not an answer. 2. U think that all black people are "gods". But in the Quran we read that there is One and Only God.


if you already knew the answers, what was the purpose of you questions


But in the Quran we read that there is One and Only God.


yes there is one supreme being at a time - a head - a leader - the collective is God - God is Plural -

who causes the wind to blow and the rain to fall ?

IBRAHIM
08-23-2008, 05:02 PM
Mic, so u dont believe in what Quran says? Then stop using holy ayats to explain u anti-islamic views. Islam is one, and it doesnt teach about what yall fivers say. Sunni winters, i want to know what u think about story of Jesus, because christians and muslims have different opinions on this topic, and u say that u believe in what the modern Bible says, and u believe in what Quran says.

LORD NOSE
08-23-2008, 05:12 PM
Sunni winters, i want to know what u think about story of Jesus, because christians and muslims have different opinions on this topic, and u say that u believe in what the modern Bible says, and u believe in what Quran says.


i believe that you are understanding me wrong - it'll be good to get to understand what was covered already in the KTL section -

i know that there are lessons to be learned in both the bible and quran - i don't go with the general belief of what others where told about these books - as far as i understand, the quran is a confirmation of the bible and i believe for one to understand the quran, one must know the bible first - I go with the NOI teachings and understanding of what the bible and quran are - for me, its the highest in understandings for these times - old world beliefs and concepts are being thrown out today - and those who cannot stay current, will be lost

Mic Tyson
08-23-2008, 05:23 PM
Mic, so u dont believe in what Quran says? Then stop using holy ayats to explain u anti-islamic views.

what the hell are u talkin about? what anti islamic views? and i never said i don't believe in what it says im just sayin just because it states there is one god doesn't mean its true. same with the bible, not just the Quran

Mic Tyson
08-23-2008, 05:24 PM
claimed claims

huh?

IBRAHIM
08-23-2008, 05:38 PM
So, u believe... and dont think its true? What a bullshit. Get your shit together son.

Mic Tyson
08-23-2008, 05:42 PM
i never said i believe in one god. never said i don't. u should not always believe everything u hear. jus because a random person wrote there is one god doesn't mean its true

SID
08-24-2008, 06:43 AM
sunni islam is orthodox islam

LORD NOSE
08-24-2008, 11:56 AM
sunni islam is orthodox islam


what was Islam before people put the title sunni in front of it ?

SID
08-24-2008, 01:09 PM
"sunni" islam is the islam that was practised since the begining, it was given the name "sunni" to distinguish it from shia

LORD NOSE
08-24-2008, 03:04 PM
"sunni" islam is the islam that was practised since the begining, it was given the name "sunni" to distinguish it from shia


what are the differences ?

from my understanding,sunni muslims pray facing the east - toward the kaaba - is this a practice that was done since Islams beginning ?

diggy
08-25-2008, 12:06 AM
"sunni" islam is the islam that was practised since the begining, it was given the name "sunni" to distinguish it from shia

The islam which was practiced from the beginning started with Prophet Abraham (Refer to quran). It is stated in the quran that Prophet Muhammad was told to following the religion of Abraham:

016.120
YUSUFALI: Abraham was indeed a model, devoutly obedient to Allah, (and) true in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah:

016.121
YUSUFALI: He showed his gratitude for the favours of Allah, who chose him, and guided him to a Straight Way.

016.122
YUSUFALI: And We gave him Good in this world, and he will be, in the Hereafter, in the ranks of the Righteous.

016.123
YUSUFALI: So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah."




It also states that "Abraham is an excellent example" to follow.


060.004YUSUFALI: There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone": But not when Abraham said to his father: "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed): "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.


060.005
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! Make us not a (test and) trial for the Unbelievers, but forgive us, our Lord! for Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

060.006
YUSUFALI: There was indeed in them an excellent example for you to follow,- for those whose hope is in Allah and in the Last Day. But if any turn away, truly Allah is Free of all Wants, Worthy of all Praise.

Do sunni, shia, wahabi, ahmadiat, etc. follow Abraham?

If those groups do not follow Abraham, how authentic are they (those groups) in terms of being a submitter to God's way of life offered to us?

LORD NOSE
08-25-2008, 12:20 AM
Vatican Status ^^^^^^

SID
08-26-2008, 05:46 AM
Well the sunnis follow the sunnah of mohammed which was one of the original concepts ofand beliefs of islam..which is why its the original.

All of the islamic sects believe in abraham..but some have other radicaly different practises and beliefs to mainstream/orthodox/"sunni" islam.

The shias believe in ali to an almost like god incarnate status, which is obviously un-islamic..there are many other examples.

They all read the same koran though, just interpret it differently

LORD NOSE
08-26-2008, 10:41 AM
Well the sunnis follow the sunnah of mohammed which was one of the original concepts ofand beliefs of islam..which is why its the original.

All of the islamic sects believe in abraham..but some have other radicaly different practises and beliefs to mainstream/orthodox/"sunni" islam.

The shias believe in ali to an almost like god incarnate status, which is obviously un-islamic..there are many other examples.

They all read the same koran though, just interpret it differently



what was Islam like before the Qu'ran was written ?

diggy
08-26-2008, 11:03 PM
Well the sunnis follow the sunnah of mohammed which was one of the original concepts ofand beliefs of islam..which is why its the original.

Did you not read the verses I've posted?

All of the islamic sects believe in abraham..but some have other radicaly different practises and beliefs to mainstream/orthodox/"sunni" islam.

If they have different practices and beliefs, but have the same scripture, are they following that scripture or just claiming to follow it?

Are mainstream/orthodox/"sunni" islam practices like stoning adulterers, killing apostates, and "honor" killings found in the quran or are the practitioners of these practices following a different way of life contradicted by the quran?

The shias believe in ali to an almost like god incarnate status, which is obviously un-islamic..there are many other examples.

They all read the same koran though, just interpret it differently

They might read the Quran, but the words goes no further than their throats in most cases (they read it without understanding and take pride in being a hafiz - a memorizer of Quran, instead of a practitioner of it!!), cuz what they really follow are hadith - hadith which was compiled about 300 yrs after the messengers death, some of which contain sayings which contradict the Quran they are said to support, and other sayings which add to a revelation (the Quran) which is said to be complete and clear!!

Now if the messenger brought the Quran and died shortly after this, one can rightly say that his sole purpose as a messenger was to bring the Quran.

Since this was his purpose, why do so-called "muslims" follow Hadith which came after his death and was not labeled as a revelation from God???????

Also the core of the Quranic verses are clear and straight to the point. If people interperet something which is clear and straight to the point, they are not following the verses, but are following their own desires.

Cee Oh Vee
09-02-2008, 04:26 AM
May I ask why you guys always claim Muslims think Islam started with Muhammad (may Allah bless him)?

I am not doubting that the path has been in existence since the beginning of time, what's your point?

Cee Oh Vee
09-02-2008, 04:32 AM
diggy, I recommend you study the concepts of fard, wajib, mustahhab, makruh, halal and haram. All of your questions will be answered.

Allah tells us in the Qur'an to obey the Messenger and follow his Sunna, so what's the deal with you problem with Muslims practising what is not in the Qur'an?

Also, Hadith wasn't compiled 300 years after the Prophet's death. Imam Malik's Muwatta was written around 2 generations after the Qur'an.

diggy
09-02-2008, 05:02 AM
diggy, I recommend you study the concepts of fard, wajib, mustahhab, makruh, halal and haram. All of your questions will be answered.

No thanks - these concepts have nothing to do with what I'm talking about, nor do they help people. These concepts are the reasons why you people of religious sects are fucked up.

Allah tells us in the Qur'an to obey the Messenger and follow his Sunna, so what's the deal with you problem with Muslims practising what is not in the Qur'an?

My problem is that when u practice what is not in the Quran and say you are muslims, that makes you a liar and a hypocrite misleading people from what is good.

Also, Hadith wasn't compiled 300 years after the Prophet's death. Imam Malik's Muwatta was written around 2 generations after the Qur'an.

While Malik Muwatta's shit was WRITTEN 2 gen. after quran, Hadith (a collection of sayings and stories) was not COMPILED INTO BOOKS until 300 after the messengers death. There is a difference between the words "written" and "compiled". Refer to a dictionary.

Cee Oh Vee
09-02-2008, 06:02 AM
No thanks - these concepts have nothing to do with what I'm talking about, nor do they help people. These concepts are the reasons why you people of religious sects are fucked up.

Ok. Praise be to Allah.

My problem is that when u practice what is not in the Quran and say you are muslims, that makes you a liar and a hypocrite misleading people from what is good.

4:59: You who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger

This, amongst other ayats, is where Allah tells us in the Qur'an to follow the Messenger. Allah is not saying 'to be a muslim you must only practice what is in the quran'. I don't know where YOU get this twisted belief..

While Malik Muwatta's shit was WRITTEN 2 gen. after quran, Hadith (a collection of sayings and stories) was not COMPILED INTO BOOKS until 300 after the messengers death. There is a difference between the words "written" and "compiled". Refer to a dictionary.

Who is Malik Muwatta? This is proof you are speaking upon a subject you have very little, or no knowledge on.

Imam Malik wrote, and compiled his Muwatta in HIS LIFETIME, which was around 2 generations after the Prophets death. Where are you getting this 300 years shit from?

Oh Allah, bless Muhammad, Your slave and Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, and his family and Companions and grant them peace.

diggy
09-02-2008, 08:05 PM
Ok. Praise be to Allah.



4:59: You who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger

This, amongst other ayats, is where Allah tells us in the Qur'an to follow the Messenger. Allah is not saying 'to be a muslim you must only practice what is in the quran'. I don't know where YOU get this twisted belief..


The obedience to the prophet and the deliverance of the Quran are linked in the same verse. In other words, by obedience to the messenger, they are showing obedience to Allah.

6.038 "There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end."

6.039 "Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom He willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight."

6.114 Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. "

Cee Oh Vee
09-03-2008, 07:52 AM
The obedience to the prophet and the deliverance of the Quran are linked in the same verse. In other words, by obedience to the messenger, they are showing obedience to Allah.

6.038 "There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end."

6.039 "Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom He willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight."

6.114 Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. "

I am sorry but I really cannot see how those ayats indicate that to be a Muslim you should follow Qur'an only, and NOT follow the sunna of Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him.

I fully understand that what we need is in the Qur'an; however not everybody can make tafsir on Qur'an which is why we have ulema and shuyukh who can give us a better understanding of things.

Allah says in the Qur'an (Al-Hashr ayah 7):
Whatever the Messenger gives you you should accept
and whatever he forbids you you should forgo.

I have given you a few examples, there is LOTS more, are you denying that Allah is commanding us to follow the sunna?

Praise is due to Allah and thanks be to Allah.

with peace.

diggy
09-03-2008, 09:39 PM
I am sorry but I really cannot see how those ayats indicate that to be a Muslim you should follow Qur'an only, and NOT follow the sunna of Muhammad, may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him.

Maybe that is because you are blind: :nerdy:

006.039 "Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom He willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight."










When I posted the ayat below and highlighted what I wanted you to pay attention to, it showed that nothing was omitted from the Quran. In other words, it is complete and does not need Hadith to suppliment or support it!!

006.038 "There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end."














Also this one explains the same. If the book is explained in detail, then why do you need another supplimental book (which in some cases does not suppliment the Quran, but contradicts it!!!)?:

006.114 "Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt."















I fully understand that what we need is in the Qur'an; however not everybody can make tafsir on Qur'an which is why we have ulema and shuyukh who can give us a better understanding of things.




This is why you are mislead - because "scholars" and shieks have CONvinced you that you need them to interperet a book which makes things clear.:

015.001 "A. L. R. These are the Ayats of Revelation,- of a Qur'an that makes things clear."

043.002 "By the Book that makes things clear,-"















Allah says in the Qur'an (Al-Hashr ayah 7):
Whatever the Messenger gives you you should accept
and whatever he forbids you you should forgo.

I have given you a few examples, there is LOTS more, are you denying that Allah is commanding us to follow the sunna?

:(W

First of all, show me a verse from the Quran specifically, undenyably calling for people to follow "Hadith"!! Do not show me a verse which is open to interperetation; show that it says "Follow Hadith"!!!
:learning:

Show me this cuz you have not proven your point about your view that Hadith is in the same status as Al-QURAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LORD NOSE
09-03-2008, 10:28 PM
so called Traditional Islam

So called Orthodox muslims

afraid to question what they were told Allah is and isn't

you can get killed questioning your beliefs

anyone who pushes Fard aside never tried to understand Fard and doesn't know what Fard accomplished

Cee Oh Vee
09-04-2008, 11:15 AM
First of all, show me a verse from the Quran specifically, undenyably calling for people to follow "Hadith"!! Do not show me a verse which is open to interperetation; show that it says "Follow Hadith"!!!
:learning:

Show me this cuz you have not proven your point about your view that Hadith is in the same status as Al-QURAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is it so hard for you to understand? Allah tells us to follow the Messenger. How can we, all these years after him, act out his sunna without some sort of record of what he did?

I appreciate that A LOT of hadith isn't actually authentic, mostly in the Sahih books. Which is why I gave the Muwatta as an example.

The examples I gave you said follow hadith. The word 'hadith' describing what is known as hadith wasn't around back then.

You do not know what hadith is. Anybody who says hadith is 'sayings of Muhammad' is lost, and has no idea.

diggy
09-05-2008, 12:17 AM
Why is it so hard for you to understand? Allah tells us to follow the Messenger. How can we, all these years after him, act out his sunna without some sort of record of what he did?

:(W

Actually, we are told from the Quran that Ibrahim is the best example to follow!!!

016.120
YUSUFALI: Abraham was indeed a model, devoutly obedient to Allah, (and) true in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah.












The examples I gave you said follow hadith. The word 'hadith' describing what is known as hadith wasn't around back then.

Oh yes, the word was around back then. I could give you many verses, but here is two:

Surah 7:185 "Have they not considered the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and what things Allah hath created, and that it may be that their own term draweth nigh? In what Hadiis after this will they believe?"

Surah 45:6 "These are the signs of Allah which We recite unto thee with truth. Then in what hadis after Allah and his signs, will they believe?"

In both of these verses, the signs of Allahs existance, wisdom, and power are mentioned - the heavens and earth and all Allah has created. Then the question is asked, what Hadis after this will they believe? In other words, what Hadis (tales or recitals) will they believe after this? Logically, this implies that the Quran IS HADITH and nothing is to be followed after it!!!

:yes:











You do not know what hadith is. Anybody who says hadith is 'sayings of Muhammad' is lost, and has no idea.
I just told you what the real Hadith is. And you must be lost and have no idea cuz you just said it.


:lmao:

Golden_Armz
09-05-2008, 05:42 AM
Actually, we are told from the Quran that Ibrahim is the best example to follow!!!

016.120
YUSUFALI: Abraham was indeed a model, devoutly obedient to Allah, (and) true in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah.

how does 'Abraham was indeed a model' mean its telling us he is 'the best model'? lol

what did God send Prophets for if not to show us their way?

stupid people think they can get everything from a book...

the real hadith and Sunnah of the Prophets has been inherited by the righteous Scholars and Awliyah Allah (Friends of Allah/those close to Allah).

they are modern day examples of the sunnah and have been given authority to teach from a chain of scholars all the way back to the Prophet themselves...

you reject Sunnah and it shows in your 'Adab (Manners) swearing and disrespecting a 14 year old boy!

If you knew Sunnah you would know we should treat the youth with kindness and the respects of an adult!

You cant be a Muslim and not do your Salah

You cant do your Salah other than the way the Prophets did

You cant know how the Prophets did (in detail, Quran just says they prostrated) unless you read, hear, see the Sunnah...

So how do you pray if your Muslim?

No the written Hadiths are not on par with Quran

Quran is God's word unaltered.

But the Sunnah is a blessing...if people misuse it thats mans fault not Allah's or Prophets..

The first 3 generations didnt need Hadith because they were living with those who lived with the Prophet!

peace

LORD NOSE
09-05-2008, 07:10 PM
Dinosaur Mentality

Jesus was accused of Blasphemy and was accused of trying to change the laws of Moses -
The Pharisees (scholars,old way religious fanatics) were not ready for what Jesus had - they were afraid to question what they were told and what they were taught to follow -
Jesus had an overview, a deeper view into the scriptures and brought those who had a better understanding and a need to change into a better higher existance - Then Muhammad came, using what he was taught by the messenger Jabril/Gabriel, changing the ways of those around him - what Jabril gave muhammad was a confirmation of the books that predate the Qu'ran - he was taught about Moses and Jesus - and this worked to reform his people in his time for a time - But in these last days, a new messenger has risen to reform a new people who were/are under NEW circumstances so that they can take the teachings and build a new world that the scriptures prophecy of -
Many don't understand Elijah - because they are afraid to understand Elijah

Mic Tyson
09-05-2008, 07:51 PM
u mean the elijah that was having affairs with young girls and had kids with them? i understand that nigga. that nigga was a playa.

LORD NOSE
09-05-2008, 08:53 PM
u mean the elijah that was having affairs with young girls and had kids with them? i understand that nigga. that nigga was a playa.



who gave you that information about Elijah ?

KLIION JENSEN
09-05-2008, 09:51 PM
the way i see things here, and dont get me wrong, i'm not trying to shit on anyones beliefs or religious views, i'm just trying to learn, so i got a few questions and a few points to make & hopefully someone can help me out....


NGE, NOI, 5%ers - someone already said something similar, but i kind of think its an exclusive country club type affair for black people, 5% know the truth, 10% know, but choose to ignore or whatever, and 85% mentally dead - thats the way it breaks down right ?? my point with this is.....in Malcolm X times those figures may be accurate, however with the growth of the NGE etc should'nt those figures be reversed ?? 85% that know the truth, 10% still the same & 5% mentally dead ?? would those figures not be better for the cause or whatever.......if all these people have converted & have been taught, how come theres still only 5% that know the truth ??


(q) are white muslims still considered devils ?? i ask this because a couple of years ago, i had a debate with someone claiming to be NGE on chambermusik.com about white muslims, and everytime i questioned or commented on what he was saying, his reply was "your opinion holds no merit because you do not understand what you're speaking of" (or words to that effect), my thoughts on that were that i had said something which he knew to be true, but it also contradicted what he was saying his beliefs were...and every time he gave his reply, i asked him to educate me, tell me where i went wrong with it.....and he could'nt do it, he just came with the same reply...


there is no doubt that black people are the original man, white scientists proved that shit way back when.........however, is it not blasphemous to call another man God or Allah ?? and is using the lords name in vain (blasphemy) one of the biggest sins in any religion ??.....

if God is all around, see's & hears everything, why do i need to go to church/mosque or whatever holy building to pray to God ?? let alone face a certain direction at certain times of day....why can i not pray at home when i choose to ??

this may not have any relevance, however its something i was thinking about while smoking weed & watching the movie "Dogma", i want you to think about this honestly before you get heated with me about it.......just my thoughts........the ideals of God & Satan are backwards.....God is NOT good, God is the evil one & Satan is the good one, think about it...........Satan is a fallen angel right ?? banished from heaven because he wanted what God gave us humans....free will.......he did'nt like Gods actions & the way he was, so he was sent to hell.....throughout the Bible all the famine, global flooding, plagues etc were all Gods actions, because we did'nt exist how God wanted us to, because God gave us free will, and we chose not to follow God, so he punished us.....so do you think that God punishing us for using something that he gave us, makes God good ?? .........."i shall fear no man but God".........why should i fear someone that supposedly loves me ???.....Gods love is conditional love, he will love us if we abide by his rules..............if theres a tornado & it destroys your home, is it not called an act of God ??


my apologies, its late here (2.45am), i'm tired, i just like deep conversations such as this, when i was younger the Vicar of the church i went to told me to question my own beliefs as well as others, and because of this i no longer follow any organised religion, yet i try to live my life as righteous as is possible to the circumstance that i live in..

peace to all, whatever ya beliefs are, we're all man, black, white, brown, yellow, whatever......we're all on this earth together & life is too short to be arguing about "my Gods better than yours"

Mic Tyson
09-05-2008, 09:55 PM
who gave you that information about Elijah ?

malcolm x said it in interviews and in his autobiography

Mic Tyson
09-05-2008, 09:58 PM
NGE, NOI, 5%ers - someone already said something similar, but i kind of think its an exclusive country club type affair for black people, 5% know the truth, 10% know, but choose to ignore or whatever, and 85% mentally dead - thats the way it breaks down right ?? my point with this is.....in Malcolm X times those figures may be accurate, however with the growth of the NGE etc should'nt those figures be reversed ?? 85% that know the truth, 10% still the same & 5% mentally dead ?? would those figures not be better for the cause or whatever.......if all these people have converted & have been taught, how come theres still only 5% that know the truth ??\

they aren't literal statistics


(q) are white muslims still considered devils ?? i ask this because a couple of years ago, i had a debate with someone claiming to be NGE on chambermusik.com about white muslims, and everytime i questioned or commented on what he was saying, his reply was "your opinion holds no merit because you do not understand what you're speaking of" (or words to that effect), my thoughts on that were that i had said something which he knew to be true, but it also contradicted what he was saying his beliefs were...and every time he gave his reply, i asked him to educate me, tell me where i went wrong with it.....and he could'nt do it, he just came with the same reply...


\

lol it was prolly Black Man

KLIION JENSEN
09-05-2008, 09:58 PM
malcolm x said it in interviews and in his autobiography

The "Honourable" Elijah Muhammed, i read that too

KLIION JENSEN
09-05-2008, 10:02 PM
they aren't literal statistics


i understand that they're not literal, more a general figure, but in the past 40 years or whatever, the figures are still generally the same ???

Mic Tyson
09-05-2008, 10:06 PM
i understand that they're not literal, more a general figure, but in the past 40 years or whatever, the figures are still generally the same ???

they went through ups and downs and shit like that. if u really want to learn, read "In the Name of Allah, A History of Clarence 13X and the Five Percenters" by Wakeel Allah. it got the whole history and its pretty good

KLIION JENSEN
09-05-2008, 10:20 PM
they went through ups and downs and shit like that. if u really want to learn, read "In the Name of Allah, A History of Clarence 13X and the Five Percenters" by Wakeel Allah. it got the whole history and its pretty good

i'll look out for that, and appreciate your assistance with my questioning, its good to finally get some help with this instead of being downgraded due to my being white..

Mic Tyson
09-05-2008, 10:27 PM
i'll look out for that, and appreciate your assistance with my questioning, its good to finally get some help with this instead of being downgraded due to my being white..

no problem. yeah theres a couple ppl on here that be doin homo shit like what u said, or every post they will ask questions that they know the answer to, and answer a question with a question, or dodge the question altogether. thats why KTL gets annoyin sometimes. luckily tho, theres enough smart people that make the few dumbasses on here bearable.

diggy
09-05-2008, 11:03 PM
how does 'Abraham was indeed a model' mean its telling us he is 'the best model'? lol



Certainly, there is an excellent example for you in Abraham, and his companions. They said to their folk, “Verily, we stay clear of you and of what you worship instead of Allah. We denounce you and between us and you has arisen distance and aversion until you believe in Allah alone.” The only exception was Abraham’s saying to his father, “I will indeed pray for your forgiveness, although I have no power to achieve anything from Allah on your behalf.” Then he prayed, “Our Lord! In You we place our trust, unto You we turn, and unto You is the Final Destination.

Al-Qur'an, 060.004 (Al-Mumtahina)




As for the rest of what you wrote, read from the beginning of this thread for most of your answers.

diggy
09-05-2008, 11:17 PM
if God is all around, see's & hears everything, why do i need to go to church/mosque or whatever holy building to pray to God ?? let alone face a certain direction at certain times of day....why can i not pray at home when i choose to ??

I see going to mosque/church to worship as a scam. I see it as a pastor/imam preaching hope and salvation for money, cuz at the end of the sermon, they usually ask for money or imply that u should give money (donation plate).


this may not have any relevance, however its something i was thinking about while smoking weed & watching the movie "Dogma", i want you to think about this honestly before you get heated with me about it.......just my thoughts........the ideals of God & Satan are backwards.....God is NOT good, God is the evil one & Satan is the good one, think about it...........Satan is a fallen angel right ?? banished from heaven because he wanted what God gave us humans....free will.......he did'nt like Gods actions & the way he was, so he was sent to hell.....throughout the Bible all the famine, global flooding, plagues etc were all Gods actions, because we did'nt exist how God wanted us to, because God gave us free will, and we chose not to follow God, so he punished us.....so do you think that God punishing us for using something that he gave us, makes God good ?? .........."i shall fear no man but God".........why should i fear someone that supposedly loves me ???.....Gods love is conditional love, he will love us if we abide by his rules..............if theres a tornado & it destroys your home, is it not called an act of God ??

The will is a tool and for every tool, it should be used the way it is supposed to be used. Thru my research, I have determined that Iblis/the shaitan/the devil was supposed to be a helper to man by protecting him and praying for him (basically doing the things that angels do). When he disobeyed the order to submit to the authority of Adam, he commited the first sin - pride. After being banished from wherever this took place, he vowed to take down Adam and his descendants away from righteousness by encouraging them also to go against what mankind were created for - the recognizing of one God and practicing righteousness. The devil is evil cuz he went against his nature.

Some may say bad weather are acts of God, but I think the weather may actually be influence by mankinds behaviour. When mankind acts in accordance with nature, it works for him; when he acts against it, it works against him.

KLIION JENSEN
09-07-2008, 05:16 PM
I see going to mosque/church to worship as a scam. I see it as a pastor/imam preaching hope and salvation for money, cuz at the end of the sermon, they usually ask for money or imply that u should give money (donation plate).

The will is a tool and for every tool, it should be used the way it is supposed to be used. Thru my research, I have determined that Iblis/the shaitan/the devil was supposed to be a helper to man by protecting him and praying for him (basically doing the things that angels do). When he disobeyed the order to submit to the authority of Adam, he commited the first sin - pride. After being banished from wherever this took place, he vowed to take down Adam and his descendants away from righteousness by encouraging them also to go against what mankind were created for - the recognizing of one God and practicing righteousness. The devil is evil cuz he went against his nature.

Some may say bad weather are acts of God, but I think the weather may actually be influence by mankinds behaviour. When mankind acts in accordance with nature, it works for him; when he acts against it, it works against him.


i totally 100,000,000% agree with, it is a scam, who recieves that money at the end of the sermon ?? alot of holy buildings are collecting money weekly from their parish, but the buildings are still fucked up, occasionally the money is spent on the building and helping the community, but not before the priest is sorted out..

i dont think the devil did go against his nature though, i think it was his nature to NOT be a servant......without trying to spew racism here, its kind of like black people in America, black people were taken to America to be slaves & servants, but it was'nt their nature to be slaves or servants, so they went against what white Americans had deemed them to be.....again i'm not trying to be racist here, i'm just trying to show you my weeded thoughts on it, God is white America, The Devil is black America going against what it was forced to be, do you know what i mean (*i'm probably gonna end up having to apologise for years about that, but if my point is made & understood, it must be worth it*)

your third point actually kinda works with my point about God being evil, he gives us free will, we use it, he does'nt like how we use it, he punishes us....

all i can say is, live as good as you can now, and hopefully good things will happen for you later on, even if later on is after you die...

Cee Oh Vee
09-08-2008, 12:00 PM
I just wanted to say that, firstly, you don't need to go to a mosque to worship God; and secondly, traditionally the imam does not get paid nor does he collect any of the sadaqa (charity) which is collected.

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 12:10 PM
malcolm x said it in interviews and in his autobiography


Malcolm X wasn't in his right mind at that time and got used by government agents who used fear to get him to do what they wanted - look into it further

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 12:11 PM
i'll look out for that, and appreciate your assistance with my questioning, its good to finally get some help with this instead of being downgraded due to my being white..

who here has done that to you ?

KLIION JENSEN
09-08-2008, 06:56 PM
who here has done that to you ?


nobody here, the people here have actually been quite insightful and are open minded to "the other mans" questions, i was actually talking about some guy claiming to be NGE over at chambermusik.com who tried to speak & teach like he was Malcolm X or something, and when i questioned what he said that was blatantly contradictory to other comments he made or i commented on something he said, his reply was "your opinion holds no merit because you don't know what you speak of", he did call me a white devil a few times because i picked up on his contradictions, and when i asked him to educate me on the subject, because i was truely interested, he refused to do so...or could'nt do so.....so he kept putting me down with constant negative refernces to white people.......if i remember correctly the conversation was about - are white muslims still considered white devils - & - how can the NGE be about equality for all men if the black man is God & the white man is The Devil ?? - to tell the truth i actually understood alot of what he was saying, i was probably more so trying to prove that HE did'nt....

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 07:04 PM
nobody here, the people here have actually been quite insightful and are open minded to "the other mans" questions, i was actually talking about some guy claiming to be NGE over at chambermusik.com who tried to speak & teach like he was Malcolm X or something, and when i questioned what he said that was blatantly contradictory to other comments he made or i commented on something he said, his reply was "your opinion holds no merit because you don't know what you speak of", he did call me a white devil a few times because i picked up on his contradictions, and when i asked him to educate me on the subject, because i was truely interested, he refused to do so...or could'nt do so.....so he kept putting me down with constant negative refernces to white people.......if i remember correctly the conversation was about - are white muslims still considered white devils - & - how can the NGE be about equality for all men if the black man is God & the white man is The Devil ?? - to tell the truth i actually understood alot of what he was saying, i was probably more so trying to prove that HE did'nt....


deep - as far as your question goes....... a lion can be domesticated - doesn't take away the fact that he is a lion - if a white man goes throughout his whole life and does nothing devilish and he strives to do right and is successful in doing so, then there is no sane intelligent man who can call that man a devil and be taken serious by those who matter

KLIION JENSEN
09-08-2008, 07:31 PM
deep - as far as your question goes....... a lion can be domesticated - doesn't take away the fact that he is a lion - if a white man goes throughout his whole life and does nothing devilish and he strives to do right and is successful in doing so, then there is no sane intelligent man who can call that man a devil and be taken serious by those who matter

see, thats a good answer, i like that, but due to my upbringing i am forced to question it further (with no disrespect),

firstly, what Man has the right to determine what is & is not devilish ?? i would consider any black man calling all white people devils due to the words & actions of a few to be the same thing as any white calling all black people lazy good-for-nothings, is that not devilish in itself ??

if i live my life doing nothing bad, hurtful or as righteous as any man possibly could, could i then be considered a white God rather than a white devil ?? i mean, i've dont some fucked up things in my lifetime, as i'm sure we all have, put i try to live my life now as positively as i can, and i strive to better my life while along the way helping others to do the same or similar...am i still considered to be a white devil ??

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 08:21 PM
see, thats a good answer, i like that, but due to my upbringing i am forced to question it further (with no disrespect),

firstly, what Man has the right to determine what is & is not devilish ??

the victims of the devil

i would consider any black man calling all white people devils due to the words & actions of a few to be the same thing as any white calling all black people lazy good-for-nothings, is that not devilish in itself ??

its a fact that white people in general as a whole have been extremely devilish and wicked - most do not see his actions as devilish due to the fact that they were born into a wicked existence where evil is fair seeming - its cool to be bad in his culture - its seen as normal - as for black people in general as a whole being lazy good for nothings........go to the carribean, go to africa, go to brazil look at most so called african americans and say this with a straight face -


if i live my life doing nothing bad, hurtful or as righteous as any man possibly could, could i then be considered a white God rather than a white devil ?? i mean, i've dont some fucked up things in my lifetime, as i'm sure we all have, put i try to live my life now as positively as i can, and i strive to better my life while along the way helping others to do the same or similar...am i still considered to be a white devil ??

i already answered you - remember

Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1310149#post1310149)
deep - as far as your question goes....... a lion can be domesticated - doesn't take away the fact that he is a lion - if a white man goes throughout his whole life and does nothing devilish and he strives to do right and is successful in doing so, then there is no sane intelligent man who can call that man a devil and be taken serious by those who matter


how much more clear can i make this, and what is your motivation ?

if you truly do all those good things and someone considers you a devil, why do you care ?

KLIION JENSEN
09-08-2008, 09:07 PM
the victims of the devil

I'VE BEEN THE VICTIM OF DEVILISH ACTS CAUSED BY BLACK PEOPLE, ARE THEY DEVILS OR ARE THEY STILL GODS ??

its a fact that white people in general as a whole have been extremely devilish and wicked - most do not see his actions as devilish due to the fact that they were born into a wicked existence where evil is fair seeming - its cool to be bad in his culture - its seen as normal - as for black people in general as a whole being lazy good for nothings........go to the carribean, go to africa, go to brazil look at most so called african americans and say this with a straight face -

THATS A BULLSHIT EXCUSE FOR RACISM, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE THAT LIVE FOUL, ALL THE BLACK MURDERERS, DRUG DEALERS, THUGS, GANGSTA'S, RAPSITS, ETC, THEY DO EXIST YOU KNOW, SO WOULD YOU CONSIDER THEM DEVILS, OR WOULD YOU STILL GREET THEM WITH "PEACE GOD" ?? AND I NEVER ACTUALLY CALLED BLACK PEOPLE "LAZY GOOD-FOR-NOTHINGS", I WAS USING IT AS AN EXAMPLE, THE TERM WHITE DEVILS TARS ALL WHITE PEOPLE WITH THE SAME BRUSH, TO QUOTE THE MOVIE "BLACK & WHITE" - "WHITE PEOPLE ARE JUST AS DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER AS BLACK PEOPLE" - SO, TO SAY THAT ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE DEVILS, IS THE EXACT SAME THING AS A WHITE MAN SAYING ALL BLACK PEOPLE LAZY-GOOD-FOR-NOTHINGS...THINK ABOUT IT

i already answered you - remember

NO YOU DID'NT.....

Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1310149#post1310149)
deep - as far as your question goes....... a lion can be domesticated - doesn't take away the fact that he is a lion - if a white man goes throughout his whole life and does nothing devilish and he strives to do right and is successful in doing so, then there is no sane intelligent man who can call that man a devil and be taken serious by those who matter

...THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION "ARE WHITE MUSLIMS STILL CONSIDERED DEVILS ??" THE QUESTION THAT YOU HAVE RE-USED THIS ANSWER FOR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING MUSLIM, IT WAS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT QUESTION, SO AGAIN - I'VE DONE SOME FUCKED UP THINGS IN MY LIFETIME, BUT I AM NOW TRYING TO LIVE A POSITIVE LIFESTYLE & TRYING TO HELP OTHERS TO DO SO........AM I STILL CONSIDERED A DEVIL ??


how much more clear can i make this, and what is your motivation ?

MUCH MUCH MORE, MY MOTIVATION IS TO SEEK KNOWLEDGE AND FIND A COMMONALITY BETWEEN ALL RACES

if you truly do all those good things and someone considers you a devil, why do you care ?


I PERSONALLY DONT CARE, I FIND IT AMUSING, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THE BLACK MAN BEING CONSIDERED GOD ?? YOU ARE NOT GOD OR A GOD, YOU ARE A MAN, A DECENDANT OF THE ORIGINAL MAN NO DOUBT, BUT TO CALL YOURSELF GOD AND TO PLACE YOURSELF ON THE SAME LEVEL AS GOD IS BLASPHEMY, AND AS FAR AS I KNOW BLASPHEMY IS A HELL WORTHY TRESSPASS.....

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1310247#post1310247)
the victims of the devil

I'VE BEEN THE VICTIM OF DEVILISH ACTS CAUSED BY BLACK PEOPLE, ARE THEY DEVILS OR ARE THEY STILL GODS ??

yes they are devils - when a people are robbed of their language culture and god, thats what they become if they are forced to follow a devils culture and speak a devils language and bow down to a devils god


its a fact that white people in general as a whole have been extremely devilish and wicked - most do not see his actions as devilish due to the fact that they were born into a wicked existence where evil is fair seeming - its cool to be bad in his culture - its seen as normal - as for black people in general as a whole being lazy good for nothings........go to the carribean, go to africa, go to brazil look at most so called african americans and say this with a straight face -

THATS A BULLSHIT EXCUSE FOR RACISM, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE THAT LIVE FOUL, ALL THE BLACK MURDERERS, DRUG DEALERS, THUGS, GANGSTA'S, RAPSITS, ETC, THEY DO EXIST YOU KNOW, SO WOULD YOU CONSIDER THEM DEVILS, OR WOULD YOU STILL GREET THEM WITH "PEACE GOD" ?? AND I NEVER ACTUALLY CALLED BLACK PEOPLE "LAZY GOOD-FOR-NOTHINGS", I WAS USING IT AS AN EXAMPLE, THE TERM WHITE DEVILS TARS ALL WHITE PEOPLE WITH THE SAME BRUSH, TO QUOTE THE MOVIE "BLACK & WHITE" - "WHITE PEOPLE ARE JUST AS DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER AS BLACK PEOPLE" - SO, TO SAY THAT ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE DEVILS, IS THE EXACT SAME THING AS A WHITE MAN SAYING ALL BLACK PEOPLE LAZY-GOOD-FOR-NOTHINGS...THINK ABOUT IT

yes - after being kidnapped and forced to live as animals, abused animals at that, we have developed some serious problems - but this is not just the case for so called african americans, africans have also suffered because of white supremist plans to destroy everything natural and replace it with an artificial replica of the natural - why do you think white supremist wanna acheive such a thing - and since you are not a white supremist, what can you do to help stop the madness they are destroying the natural people of the earth with ?

i already answered you - remember

NO YOU DID'NT.....

Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1310149#post1310149)
deep - as far as your question goes....... a lion can be domesticated - doesn't take away the fact that he is a lion - if a white man goes throughout his whole life and does nothing devilish and he strives to do right and is successful in doing so, then there is no sane intelligent man who can call that man a devil and be taken serious by those who matter

...THAT ANSWERED MY QUESTION "ARE WHITE MUSLIMS STILL CONSIDERED DEVILS ??" THE QUESTION THAT YOU HAVE RE-USED THIS ANSWER FOR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING MUSLIM, IT WAS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT QUESTION, SO AGAIN - I'VE DONE SOME FUCKED UP THINGS IN MY LIFETIME, BUT I AM NOW TRYING TO LIVE A POSITIVE LIFESTYLE & TRYING TO HELP OTHERS TO DO SO........AM I STILL CONSIDERED A DEVIL ??


a white man can call himself a muslim and he can call himself a cop
what i wrote in my answer covers all of that


how much more clear can i make this, and what is your motivation ?

MUCH MUCH MORE, MY MOTIVATION IS TO SEEK KNOWLEDGE AND FIND A COMMONALITY BETWEEN ALL RACES


we can work to figure all of this out and bring an understanding and respect between each other and work towards uniting all peoples who want to live in a peaceful natural world

if you truly do all those good things and someone considers you a devil, why do you care ?


I PERSONALLY DONT CARE, I FIND IT AMUSING, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THE BLACK MAN BEING CONSIDERED GOD ??

because for so long, my people were and still are considered animals and we grew up seeing everyone thats of importance painted white from God to superman -


YOU ARE NOT GOD OR A GOD, YOU ARE A MAN, A DECENDANT OF THE ORIGINAL MAN NO DOUBT, BUT TO CALL YOURSELF GOD AND TO PLACE YOURSELF ON THE SAME LEVEL AS GOD IS BLASPHEMY, AND AS FAR AS I KNOW BLASPHEMY IS A HELL WORTHY TRESSPASS.....


you don't understand why i say what i say yet -

KLIION JENSEN
09-10-2008, 07:02 AM
yes they are devils - when a people are robbed of their language culture and god, thats what they become if they are forced to follow a devils culture and speak a devils language and bow down to a devils god

LOL

yes - after being kidnapped and forced to live as animals, abused animals at that, we have developed some serious problems - but this is not just the case for so called african americans, africans have also suffered because of white supremist plans to destroy everything natural and replace it with an artificial replica of the natural - why do you think white supremist wanna acheive such a thing - and since you are not a white supremist, what can you do to help stop the madness they are destroying the natural people of the earth with ?

YES, BUT ABUSED ANIMALS DONT BECOME LAZY GOOD FOR NOTHINGS, THE EITHER COWER IN THE CORNER, OR THEY BECOME VIOLENT & GO ON A RAMPAGE AND KILL, BY THE WAY YOU SPEAK THAT WOULD BE RATHER DEVILISH RIGHT ??




a white man can call himself a muslim and he can call himself a cop
what i wrote in my answer covers all of that

NO IT DID'NT, STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION, I TRY TO LIVE AS POSITIVE AS I CAN & TRY HELP OTHERS TO DO THE SAME, CAN I BE CALLED GOD, OR AM I STILL THE DEVIL??




we can work to figure all of this out and bring an understanding and respect between each other and work towards uniting all peoples who want to live in a peaceful natural world

THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN WHILE EVER THE NGE BELIEVES & TEACHES THAT THE BLACK MAN IS GOD & THE WHITE MAN IS THE DEVIL, BECAUSE A WHITE MAN COULD NEVER BELIEVE OR AGREE THAT A BLACK MAN THAT SELLS CRACK TO KIDS, KILLS PEOPLE & RUINS FAMILIES CAN BE GOD, WHILE THAT WHITE MAN THERE GOES TO WORK EVERYDAY, PROVIDES FOR HIS FAMILY, HELPS IN THE COMMUNITY, AND GOES TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY, IS THE DEVIL.........WOULD YOU ACCEPT IT IF YOU WERE IN THAT SITUATION ??
BUT WE COULD ACCEPT GOD AS A SPIRIT WHOS IMAGE WE WERE MADE IN, THEREFORE LOOKING LIKE EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY





because for so long, my people were and still are considered animals and we grew up seeing everyone thats of importance painted white from God to superman -

THATS NOT MY FAULT, I'VE NEVER CONSIDERED OR REFERRED TO BLACK PEAOPLE AS ANIMALS, (unless i'm talking about a nasty ass mc or beatmaker) BUT YOU STILL CONSIDER ME A DEVIL, BY ALL MEANS CALL ME A DEVIL IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER, AND ITS NOT MY FAULT EITHER THAT YOU LEARNED THE ORIGINAL MAN IS THE BLACK MAN UNTIL THE AGE YOU LEARNED IT, I WENT TO CHURCH WHEN I WAS LITTLE SO I'VE READ THE BIBLE BEFORE AS A CHILD



you don't understand why i say what i say yet -

YOU SAY WHAT YOU SAY BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT TO SAY IT, NONE OF IT IS YOUR OWN THOUGHTS, IF YOU LOOK AT MORE THAN YOUR OWN LIFE & OTHER PEOPLES LIVES - OTHER THAN THAT WHICH YOU SEE EVERYDAY, YOU'LL SEE THAT YOUR HATRED FOR WHITE PEOPLE IS BASED ON THE ACTIONS OF A FEW, ""NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE THE SAME"", JUST AS NOT ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE SAME

ITS BEEN A PLEASURE

Black Man
09-10-2008, 08:49 AM
deep - as far as your question goes....... a lion can be domesticated - doesn't take away the fact that he is a lion - if a white man goes throughout his whole life and does nothing devilish and he strives to do right and is successful in doing so, then there is no sane intelligent man who can call that man a devil and be taken serious by those who matter
.

LORD NOSE
09-10-2008, 11:36 AM
lol ^

he wrote all that up there but still can't take my answer and be satisfied

Black Man
09-10-2008, 11:44 AM
lol ^

he wrote all that up there but still can't take my answer and be satisfied

Very few of them can......no matter what answer you give if it's not what they WANT to hear, then they're not satisfied.

They talk about having a desire to learn, yet they don't do what's required and what's needed to learn, then try and blame you.

LORD NOSE
09-10-2008, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1310363#post1310363)

yes they are devils - when a people are robbed of their language culture and god, thats what they become if they are forced to follow a devils culture and speak a devils language and bow down to a devils god

LOL

yes - after being kidnapped and forced to live as animals, abused animals at that, we have developed some serious problems - but this is not just the case for so called african americans, africans have also suffered because of white supremist plans to destroy everything natural and replace it with an artificial replica of the natural - why do you think white supremist wanna acheive such a thing - and since you are not a white supremist, what can you do to help stop the madness they are destroying the natural people of the earth with ?

YES, BUT ABUSED ANIMALS DONT BECOME LAZY GOOD FOR NOTHINGS, THE EITHER COWER IN THE CORNER, OR THEY BECOME VIOLENT & GO ON A RAMPAGE AND KILL, BY THE WAY YOU SPEAK THAT WOULD BE RATHER DEVILISH RIGHT ??




a white man can call himself a muslim and he can call himself a cop
what i wrote in my answer covers all of that

NO IT DID'NT, STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION, I TRY TO LIVE AS POSITIVE AS I CAN & TRY HELP OTHERS TO DO THE SAME, CAN I BE CALLED GOD, OR AM I STILL THE DEVIL??




we can work to figure all of this out and bring an understanding and respect between each other and work towards uniting all peoples who want to live in a peaceful natural world

THAT COULD NEVER HAPPEN WHILE EVER THE NGE BELIEVES & TEACHES THAT THE BLACK MAN IS GOD & THE WHITE MAN IS THE DEVIL, BECAUSE A WHITE MAN COULD NEVER BELIEVE OR AGREE THAT A BLACK MAN THAT SELLS CRACK TO KIDS, KILLS PEOPLE & RUINS FAMILIES CAN BE GOD, WHILE THAT WHITE MAN THERE GOES TO WORK EVERYDAY, PROVIDES FOR HIS FAMILY, HELPS IN THE COMMUNITY, AND GOES TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY, IS THE DEVIL.........WOULD YOU ACCEPT IT IF YOU WERE IN THAT SITUATION ??
BUT WE COULD ACCEPT GOD AS A SPIRIT WHOS IMAGE WE WERE MADE IN, THEREFORE LOOKING LIKE EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY

__________________________________________________ ______

why are black men selling crack to "kids", killing people and ruining families in america - why is a white man able to go to work everyday and take care of his family and be at peace in america ?

god being a spirit is something someone told you - its not something you came up with all by yourself - but you accuse me of getting all my information from someone else - you say i should have my own mind - are you OK

__________________________________________________ ________





because for so long, my people were and still are considered animals and we grew up seeing everyone thats of importance painted white from God to superman -

THATS NOT MY FAULT, I'VE NEVER CONSIDERED OR REFERRED TO BLACK PEAOPLE AS ANIMALS, (unless i'm talking about a nasty ass mc or beatmaker) BUT YOU STILL CONSIDER ME A DEVIL, BY ALL MEANS CALL ME A DEVIL IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER, AND ITS NOT MY FAULT EITHER THAT YOU LEARNED THE ORIGINAL MAN IS THE BLACK MAN UNTIL THE AGE YOU LEARNED IT, I WENT TO CHURCH WHEN I WAS LITTLE SO I'VE READ THE BIBLE BEFORE AS A CHILD


__________________________________________________ _______

you are upset and you are trippin right now - its not that serious - i'm not personally calling you a DEVIL - you are taking it to heart because maybe you feel guilty about something -

if i type the words "Uncle Tom" and don't back it up with someones name, the only ones that will get upset and holla are the uncle toms - throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the one thats hit and hurt will be the only one that hollas


__________________________________________________ ____________


you don't understand why i say what i say yet -
you got me all wrong because you want me to be all wrong - thats devilish - i can no longer build with you this way because you don't have the basics down - and i'm quite tired of repeating myself and defending my stance - you stated what you feel based on somethings you don't understand - if you want a clear understanding, stay around and read whats being written - and catch up to the now times - go into the archives and read those disscussions we been having over the years - in them you'll find your answers -

LORD NOSE
09-10-2008, 11:51 AM
malcolm x said it in interviews and in his autobiography

Malcolm X was in error

KLIION JENSEN
09-10-2008, 11:57 PM
lol ^

he wrote all that up there but still can't take my answer and be satisfied

lol, well try answering the actual question instead of dodging it, should'nt be too hard....

Very few of them can......no matter what answer you give if it's not what they WANT to hear, then they're not satisfied.

They talk about having a desire to learn, yet they don't do what's required and what's needed to learn, then try and blame you.

lol, you talk more shit than Sunny, you expect that one answer covers all, give me a real answer that you truely have thought about from all aspects, then we might actually get somewhere, the fact that you're involved in organised religion is restricting your answers & you cannot bear the fact that your whole belief structure may be wrong....what makes you right & me wrong ??

why are black men selling crack to "kids", killing people and ruining families in america - why is a white man able to go to work everyday and take care of his family and be at peace in america ?

lol, let me guess, white people, lol, by your answer, you're telling me that black people have no control over what goes on in their lives, thats a cop out, not being able to accept responsibility for your own individual actions......those black "Gods" that sell crack to kids have made choices, just the same as those black Gods from the same community that go out to work everyday honestly & provide for their families, your question "whay are these black men selling crack to kids ??" is an excuse for laziness, you're saying its ok for them to do that because white people gave them no other choice, and you know as well as i do that thats bullshit.....STOP ANSWERING QUESTIONS WITH QUESTIONS, IT MAKES YOU LOOK UNINTELLIGENT.......look at all the succesful black people you know of, and no i dont just mean celebrities, i mean all the black doctors, lawyers, businessmen, all the way down to the blackman that drives the bus etc...they all made choices & chose NOT to comit devilish acts such as selling drugs, theivery, killing & raping....or are they uncle tom sell outs ??

god being a spirit is something someone told you - its not something you came up with all by yourself - but you accuse me of getting all my information from someone else - you say i should have my own mind - are you OK

lol, first of all God being a spirit was simply an example, i dont particularly believe in God fullstop, so yes i am using my own mind & my own thoughts, yet you pick up on the one thing that i said that has similarities to what other people think (which is why i used it) and say that i dont have my own thoughts, lol........and yes, thank you, i'm fine.....how are you ??



you are upset and you are trippin right now - its not that serious - i'm not personally calling you a DEVIL - you are taking it to heart because maybe you feel guilty about something -

if i type the words "Uncle Tom" and don't back it up with someones name, the only ones that will get upset and holla are the uncle toms - throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the one thats hit and hurt will be the only one that hollas


why when a white man questions something & wont just accept whats been told to him, is he "upset" & "tripping", i'm not upset or tripping, i'm just more open minded than you are, obviously, it may not be that serious to you, because you're not on the recieving end of it, you DID personally call me a Devil, because my skin is white, and your belief is that the black man is God & the white man is the Devil, by generalising like that you ARE calling me a devil............again, if i say black people are lazy-good-for-nothings, you are gonna get upset & start tripping, because apparently, you are not lazy & good for nothing, i generalised you among the ones who are like that, which is unfair is it not ??



you got me all wrong because you want me to be all wrong - thats devilish - i can no longer build with you this way because you don't have the basics down - and i'm quite tired of repeating myself and defending my stance - you stated what you feel based on somethings you don't understand - if you want a clear understanding, stay around and read whats being written - and catch up to the now times - go into the archives and read those disscussions we been having over the years - in them you'll find your answers -
[/I]


lol, i did'nt get you wrong, and i dont want you to be wrong, you're already wrong, i want you to see where you went wrong....which is actually quite Godly.........its you that wants me to be wrong, and you cannot accept, that there is a possibility that i'm right because it contradicts everything you've been told to think.................what you mean is , you can no longer build with me because the words i'm speaking have truth to them & i'm not just one of the stupid white devils that you're used to dealing with, lol, i'm tired of you repeating yourself also, because you still have failed to answer my questions, you're like one of those magic 8 balls, pre-set with but a few answers that you think can be used to cover a wide spectrum of questions.......people in general are'nt that narrowminded......and by expecting all black people to follow what you believe, if they dont follow, you consider them to be narrowminded also (85%ers), and because of that you're not giving them enouch credit for what they actually do deserve credit for.........and why would i go back and read the archives of KTL ?? when everything in there that is "truth" is probably written by the 2 most ignorant people i've encountered, yourself & Black Man.......i'll come out dumber than when i went in.


anyways, thank you for your time reading, hope you eventually learn to use your brains for something other than attempting to brainwash people.....lol

KLIION JENSEN
09-11-2008, 12:05 AM
Malcolm X was in error

lol, was he really ?? were you there when Elijah was having sex with those young girls were you ??

Mic Tyson
09-11-2008, 12:51 AM
lol, was he really ?? were you there when Elijah was having sex with those young girls were you ??

lol. without malcolm x the noi wouldn't have been shit. sunny u shouldn't be hatin on malcolm x just because he was tellin the truth about ya homeboy. i doubt he would make some random shit up like that.

SunnyWinters/Black Man u should take responsibility instead of blaming white ppl for everything. we all know everything white ppl have done but u gotta take ur life into ur own hands instead of blaming white ppl cuz u can't get a job.

ok, so lets say that everything is the white man's fault. deal with it and become successful instead of bitching every chance u get. white ppl aren't the reason black men wont take care of their kids. they have free will and they choose too. u can blame white ppl for a lot of shit but blaming won't solve any problems.

and neither will listening to popa wu and changing your religion

KLIION JENSEN
09-11-2008, 09:13 PM
who here has done that to you ?

you have...

LORD NOSE
09-11-2008, 11:50 PM
you have...

no i haven't - you're just overly sensitive - relax at stop getting so angry at yourself - i'm sure there are tanning boths somewhere near where you live

LORD NOSE
09-12-2008, 12:01 AM
lol. without malcolm x the noi wouldn't have been shit. sunny u shouldn't be hatin on malcolm x just because he was tellin the truth about ya homeboy. i doubt he would make some random shit up like that.


Malcolm was one of my first main teachers - as a youth, i formed myself from his words - if the man messed up, then he messed up and got caught out there -

SunnyWinters/Black Man u should take responsibility instead of blaming white ppl for everything.

i don't blame white people for everything, i hold white america responsible for the wicked shit white america did and does

we all know everything white ppl have done but u gotta take ur life into ur own hands instead of blaming white ppl cuz u can't get a job.

i can't get a job ?
really ?
so you think that i'm upset and i can't get no work, so i blame white people for that ?
is that really the case ?

ok, so lets say that everything is the white man's fault. deal with it and become successful instead of bitching every chance u get.

there is no need for me to bitch about anything - i'm in KTL having discussions about a myriad of stuff - it just so happens that the race threads that deal with black and white issuses get the most hits - the reason why it gets the most hits is because people like you follow behind me bitching about everything i say - see how that works ?

white ppl aren't the reason black men wont take care of their kids.

lol - do you have any ?
if the answer is no and you really live at home with your parents, then you really wouldn't understand what its like being someones dad - those discussions are for grown ups who know what they are they are talking about

they have free will and they choose too. u can blame white ppl for a lot of shit but blaming won't solve any problems.


thanks for your advice young man - when you are able to see clearly whats really being discussed here i believe that you will be a great contributer to this section

and neither will listening to popa wu and changing your religion

who is papa wu ?

KLIION JENSEN
09-12-2008, 06:47 AM
no i haven't - you're just overly sensitive - relax at stop getting so angry at yourself - i'm sure there are tanning boths somewhere near where you live

lol, not angry, grow up

BTTR KNG KOOL
09-12-2008, 07:20 AM
Sunny, white people are not getting upset.
But insulted.

U understand the difference?

Theres no need for white people to feel guilty. U understand this?

Or is this upsetting u?

KLIION JENSEN
09-12-2008, 07:33 AM
no i haven't - you're just overly sensitive - relax at stop getting so angry at yourself - i'm sure there are tanning boths somewhere near where you live

go back and read your posts to me, and yes, to answer your query, there are tanning booths near me, however, i'm quite happy in my white skin, i dont get too hot during summer nor too cold during winter, and plus which alot of the black women that i'm into find it attractive, you sir are obviously unhappy in your black skin, otherwise you would'nt have this God complex to make you feel superior....

Sunny, white people are not getting upset.
But insulted.


in pretty much the same way Sunny would feel insulted if i insisted that black people are lazy-good-for-nothings......however, the truth is, that SOME black people ARE lazy & good for nothing, same as how SOME white people ARE evil, just not all of us, but you are insisting that all of us are.....rather devilish dont you think ?? or do you not have the mental capacity to be able to think for yourself ??