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Ritter
08-03-2008, 02:39 PM
Religion is believing in a deity, following it. Believing in the supernatural. That is Theism. But people who don't believe in God (or whatever your religion is), Atheists, don't believe in deities, therefore don't fit in the core definition of religion (believers).

What's your take on this?

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-03-2008, 02:45 PM
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=atheism&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism#sharethis) a·the·ism http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/A07/A0777900) Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html) /ˈeɪhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngθiˌɪzhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ey-thee-iz-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God. 2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
[Origin: 1580–90; < Gk áthe(os) godless + -ism (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=-ism)http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]



Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=religion&ia=luna) - Share This (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=religion#sharethis) re·li·gion http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/R01/R0180400) Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html) /rɪˈlɪdʒhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. 3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. 4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion. 5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. 6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice. 7.religions, Archaic. religious rites. 8.Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow. —Idiom

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-03-2008, 02:48 PM
so theres your answer. Its impossible for it to be defined as religion to as your are interpreting one. Unless you are following "atheism" devotedly, to a point where it determines your morals and conscience. But as "atheism" has no such guidlines, it is impossible for it itself to be a religion.

Ritter
08-03-2008, 02:48 PM
I'm just asking because there is people all over the world considering Atheism as a religion. Just wanted to see your take on this.

6˛ Chambaz
08-03-2008, 02:55 PM
I think Yes. Cause presuming that you believe in no god, you believe in alternative powers

Ritter
08-03-2008, 02:56 PM
I already covered the definition of Atheism and Religion. Atheism doesn't fit in Religion's definition. But I'm wondering what's others take on this.

I voted no, and think most people will. I myself am an Atheist, but just because I don't believe in any deities/gods. I didn't choose Atheism as the "religion" I'll follow/practice. I want to know if there are people who did choose it.

6˛ Chambaz
08-03-2008, 02:57 PM
i think Man is God (or maybe not god, but has complete control over himself and his own destiny)

Ritter
08-03-2008, 03:02 PM
^ That's my opinion too.

Don't consider him as a God though.

I just don't believe that something other than natural forces and evolution created anything in Universe.

6˛ Chambaz
08-03-2008, 03:05 PM
^Sounds like Charles Darwin is your God

Ritter
08-03-2008, 03:08 PM
^ Noone is my God. Haha.

I don't wanna insult anyone with this statement but:

I can't believe in something I've never seen, and the only ones who saw it saw it alone, and due to multiple religions, who would be right?

I mean, if a prophet comes out now, with the real God, the real real God, or whatever the name is for him, they would put him in the nuthouse. I think that just isn't right.

Peace

6˛ Chambaz
08-03-2008, 03:10 PM
well, I don't know. my thoughts are too liquid to talk on this subject

6˛ Chambaz
08-03-2008, 03:14 PM
the only god I could ever believe in is U-God

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-03-2008, 03:17 PM
I can't believe in something I've never seen,

Why? Youve never seen, heard or smelt Oxygen, yet you believe in Oxygen, because you were told the body needs it survive. You can turn Oxygen into a visible liquid form if you pressurize it correctly, but as soon as you release it back to its normal atmosphere, it dissapears again to our eyes. How do you know a human soul does not work in the same way? Maybe our body is the pressurized container to our soul, and when we die, it is released like the oxygen.



and due to multiple religions, who would be right?




How do you know that they arent all right, but just have different stories (like chinese whispers)

Paranoid
08-03-2008, 03:23 PM
Not a religion.

Ritter
08-03-2008, 03:26 PM
Why? Youve never seen, heard or smelt Oxygen, yet you believe in Oxygen, because you were told the body needs it survive. You can turn Oxygen into a visible liquid form if you pressurize it correctly, but as soon as you release it back to its normal atmosphere, it dissapears again to our eyes. How do you know a human soul does not work in the same way? Maybe our body is the pressurized container to our soul, and when we die, it is released like the oxygen.

Science proved Oxygen exists. There is proof that Oxygen is in the air. There are Oxygen atoms. Oxygen is an element. Deities and the supernatural, however, haven't been proved scientifically. So I don't believe it.

And @ the different stories:

I don't know how to respond to that, but I know you can't respond to that statement, or vice-versa. I think "How can you prove it wrong" isn't an argument strong enough for me to believe in any of the stories (Or the one story).

Fatal Guillotine
08-03-2008, 03:36 PM
i would say no atheism is belief that god doesnt exist. it isnt a religion most religions i find are entitled to some belief and god where you call him Allah, Yahweh, etc. so i would so no

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-03-2008, 03:36 PM
Science proved Oxygen exists. There is proof that Oxygen is in the air. There are Oxygen atoms. Oxygen is an element. Deities and the supernatural, however, haven't been proved scientifically. So I don't believe it.




Physicists have proven that different dimensions exist, that each have wildly different atomical properties to our own dimensions, therefore making them very supernatural. How do you define supernatural? What do we really know about supernatural, do we know enough about the supernatural to even asses whether or not this or that IS supernatural?


If we havent even discovered the technology/intellect yet in our civilisation to prove that God doesnt exist (i.e by proving by science theory), then how can an "atheist" consider hiself so right in his convictions? Until we have reached the level ourselves to be able to prove one way or another we cant be so sure for anything. And Atheists are just as bad as the people they look down upon for not knowing, yet they have nothing themselves to base their own opinions on.


Which is why Atheism is probably the dumbest idea for anything ever.

Guarded By Martyrs
08-03-2008, 04:14 PM
I voted No.

I'm not part of any religion but does that make me an Atheist ? I'm not sure.
But the word "Religion" means "To Divide And Conquer"
So it has divided us...
I guess you can't compare Atheism to another religion.
Therefor not making it one.



I can't believe in something I've never seen


Ever seen a Ghost Shizz ?

Ritter
08-03-2008, 04:17 PM
Physicists have proven that different dimensions exist, that each have wildly different atomical properties to our own dimensions, therefore making them very supernatural. How do you define supernatural? What do we really know about supernatural, do we know enough about the supernatural to even asses whether or not this or that IS supernatural?


If we havent even discovered the technology/intellect yet in our civilisation to prove that God doesnt exist (i.e by proving by science theory), then how can an "atheist" consider hiself so right in his convictions? Until we have reached the level ourselves to be able to prove one way or another we cant be so sure for anything. And Atheists are just as bad as the people they look down upon for not knowing, yet they have nothing themselves to base their own opinions on.


Which is why Atheism is probably the dumbest idea for anything ever.

Different is not the same as supernatural. Different dimensions may have supernatural attributes in comparison to our own one, but then the next one has supernatural attributes for that dimension. And we're talking now about our dimension, the one we live in, the one we know to some point.

And saying Atheism is a dumbest idea for anything ever is the equivalent of me saying that Religion and Theism is the dumbest idea for anything ever.

A man can choose to believe or not to believe. But to diss another belief (In this case, disbelief), is just the only thing dumb here.

Ever seen a Ghost Shizz ?

No... which is why I don't believe in them.

Guarded By Martyrs
08-03-2008, 04:22 PM
No... which is why I don't believe in them.

Just as I thought...

What if I tell you I have ?

Ritter
08-03-2008, 04:24 PM
Just as I thought...

What if I tell you I have ?

I'd ask for... an explanation.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-03-2008, 04:25 PM
I don't believe in any kind of God, but I also don't consider myself an Atheist - why not? Cuz it's a dumb name for a person that doesn't believe in something that others believe. Well, the religious people made that label and after knowing that, it's a definite NO. I do believe in something, that I know nobody else believes tho. But to call myself an atheist would be idiotic, we must not fall under catholic sayings and things like that...

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-03-2008, 04:25 PM
And saying Atheism is a dumbest idea for anything ever is the equivalent of me saying that Religion and Theism is the dumbest idea for anything ever.

.

Exactly.......thats the point i was making. read the 2nd paragraph.


but i have more respect for those who channel their ignorance into faith (positive), than those who channel their ignorance into skepticism and no belief (negative)

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-03-2008, 04:27 PM
Oh yeah, just to add. I didn't wanted to insult anybody, I just said what I would say on any day, any where...

Ritter
08-03-2008, 04:34 PM
I don't believe in any kind of God, but I also don't consider myself an Atheist - why not? Cuz it's a dumb name for a person that doesn't believe in something that others believe. Well, the religious people made that label and after knowing that, it's a definite NO. I do believe in something, that I know nobody else believes tho. But to call myself an atheist would be idiotic, we must not fall under catholic sayings and things like that...

Well I'm just calling myself an Atheist because I don't believe in anything. Theism is believing in any kinds of deities. Atheism is not believing in them. Believing in something else could "label" you as something else, but if you don't believe in God,Allah,Buddah whatever... You're an Atheist by linguistic definition, so to say.


but i have more respect for those who channel their ignorance into faith (positive), than those who channel their ignorance into skepticism and no belief (negative)

Who says I'm channeling any ignorance anywhere? I'm just living my life, without any need of a prayer, belief, faith and anything like that. Hope, luck... that's another story and not for this thread.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-03-2008, 04:35 PM
I wonder about that Whers and ghost thing...I hope it was at a harbor at midnight.

Mr. X
08-03-2008, 06:39 PM
I consider atheism a religion. It has it's own take on creation and what happens after death, like a religion. Actually, the only thing it lacks is a deity which they chose not to believe in/have so that kinda works into the deity description if you were to describe it as one.

Fuck they even have atheist churches, I think they consider themselves a religion too.

Maccabee Ridah
08-03-2008, 09:13 PM
It's not a religion! The only things that affect on this world r nature, humans and luck! And nothing else! There is no god (or in other words, human is god) and there is no secret powers or anything! And that's the atheism I see! Tho' I respect every single religion, and religion at all as common thing!

P.E.A.C.E.

Memory Man
08-03-2008, 11:41 PM
the concept of the supernatural is 100% subjective. if you were to describe electricity to someone who had never heard of it, it would seem very supernatural to them. our concept of nature is limited to our understanding of it.

the true atheist has a lot to explain. ultimately they reject the idea that there is any design to all the organizing principles that are manifest in the universe. they also must concede that the nature of the universe is not wholly understood by modern science. i would call this viewpoint fundamentalist materialism. maybe not a "religion" by everyone's definition, but definitely a cosmology.

most people i run into who claim to be atheist are, in fact, agnostic. organized religion has so turned them off to the idea of the transcendent that they want to define themselves by their opposition to it. when questioned further, however, they lack a definitive cosmology. i would call that anti-theist agnosticism.

Philosophy
08-04-2008, 01:31 AM
^ Noone is my God. Haha.

I don't wanna insult anyone with this statement but:

I can't believe in something I've never seen, and the only ones who saw it saw it alone, and due to multiple religions, who would be right?

I mean, if a prophet comes out now, with the real God, the real real God, or whatever the name is for him, they would put him in the nuthouse. I think that just isn't right.

Peace

actually you see it everyday, you just aren't looking.

Ritter
08-04-2008, 03:54 AM
actually you see it everyday, you just aren't looking.

I know you can't explain that.

Cthulhu
08-05-2008, 01:01 AM
*sigh* I knew I shouldn't have bothered opening this thread.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. The term simply defines a standpoint, and from that standpoint stem many different modes of thought and philosophy (just like many relgiions stem from the standpoint of theism, though in itself it's not a single religion). Some can be dogmatic, and.....well...religious, like Stalinism. But calling atheism itself a religion amounts to a misunderstanding of both linguistics and philosophy.

A lot of illogical ramblings fly forth in these types of discussions and I don't feel like addressing them all. We can discuss the merits of particular philosophies (or even religions, if we count some types of Buddhism) that are atheistic. I, personally, don't trust claims that are unfalisfiable like those pertaining to the supernatural. I follow scientific inquiry as a way to define the world and learn about it since the scientific method is the only objective tool we have to study the world around us. Everything that claims to be an "alternative" almost always stems from subjective, emotional appeals that have no real practical use, mental appeasance notwithstanding.

Big Risk
08-05-2008, 01:43 AM
*sigh* I knew I shouldn't have bothered opening this thread.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. The term simply defines a standpoint, and from that standpoint stem many different modes of thought and philosophy (just like many relgiions stem from the standpoint of theism, though in itself it's not a single religion). Some can be dogmatic, and.....well...religious, like Stalinism. But calling atheism itself a religion amounts to a misunderstanding of both linguistics and philosophy.

A lot of illogical ramblings fly forth in these types of discussions and I don't feel like addressing them all. We can discuss the merits of particular philosophies (or even religions, if we count some types of Buddhism) that are atheistic. I, personally, don't trust claims that are unfalisfiable like those pertaining to the supernatural. I follow scientific inquiry as a way to define the world and learn about it since the scientific method is the only objective tool we have to study the world around us. Everything that claims to be an "alternative" almost always stems from subjective, emotional appeals that have no real practical use, mental appeasance notwithstanding.

*sigh* you can always count on this^guy to waste five minutes of your life stating the obvious with 3 paragraphs worth of material like he wants to be fuckin madden or something.

listen, the answer is no. No god+no praying+no jebus=no religion.


and to the other muh fuckas:
simple as that, stop lookin into shit so deep. not every thing in this world is a fuckin robert frost poem.

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-05-2008, 04:34 AM
yes it is...except for U obviously

Crackhead Bob
08-05-2008, 05:01 AM
The answer is in the name itself. A-theism meaning non-religious. The only people arguing that atheism is a religion are those that just want tax exempt status.

Big Risk
08-05-2008, 08:54 AM
yes it is...except for U obviously

so are you saying what I said isnt obvious? So your lost aswell as half of the other people in this thread. Im sorry your confused but its not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Cthulhu
08-05-2008, 09:03 AM
*sigh* you can always count on this^guy to waste five minutes of your life stating the obvious with 3 paragraphs worth of material like he wants to be fuckin madden or something.

listen, the answer is no. No god+no praying+no jebus=no religion.


and to the other muh fuckas:
simple as that, stop lookin into shit so deep. not every thing in this world is a fuckin robert frost poem.

If I state the obvious, it's because most of the people in this thread fail to grasp it. We have people in here claiming there's an "atheist creation story." Sorry if the length of my posts bothers you, I'm just used to writing in a formal style and these threads tend to bring a ton of topics to my mind.

Black Man
08-05-2008, 09:52 AM
Religion is believing in a deity, following it. Believing in the supernatural. That is Theism. But people who don't believe in God (or whatever your religion is), Atheists, don't believe in deities, therefore don't fit in the core definition of religion (believers).

What's your take on this?

Religion is not determined by the belief in the super natural nor is it determined by believing is a deity. That's not what religion is, although those are some characteristics involved when dealing with religion.

Because there is a misunderstanding of what the word means then everything based on that wrong definition will only produce errors.

Buddhism is a religion, yet they do not believe in deities....fyi, none of the buddha's taught religion or taught buddhism.

Atheism is a religion.

TSA
08-05-2008, 09:59 AM
i dig your reasoning Black Man, but you consistantly state that Islam is not a religion

define religion and how Islam doesn't fit the mold
cause it's a religion ya know. more of a religion the atheism

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-05-2008, 10:24 AM
so are there people without religion? or are you saying they can't exist

Black Man
08-05-2008, 10:27 AM
so are there people without religion? or are you saying they can't exist

yes

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-05-2008, 10:30 AM
yes to what? if atheism is a religion, then there are no unreligious people

Black Man
08-05-2008, 10:35 AM
yes to what? if atheism is a religion, then there are no unreligious people

Yes, there are people without religion, and YES atheism is a RELIGION.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-05-2008, 11:29 AM
so how can we define people without religion and how are they different than atheists?

Black Man
08-05-2008, 11:35 AM
so how can we define people without religion and how are they different than atheists?

do you KNOW AND UNDERSTAND what religion means?

The difference between people without religion and atheist is atheist are religious people and those without religion are not religious.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-05-2008, 11:38 AM
that didn't clear up anything

Now who are those withput religion, if u can define them.

Black Man
08-05-2008, 11:44 AM
that didn't clear up anything

Now who are those withput religion, if u can define them.

THE 5% DON'T HAVE RELIGION.

Cthulhu
08-05-2008, 12:39 PM
THE 5% DON'T HAVE RELIGION.

lolololololololololol

Rode Block
08-05-2008, 01:33 PM
Atheism isn't a belief...it's the lack of a belief.

So no I don't consider it a religion

Black Man
08-05-2008, 01:56 PM
Atheism isn't a belief...it's the lack of a belief.

So no I don't consider it a religion

Atheist BELIEVE that god does not exist....that's a belief right there.

Religion is not determined by belief.

Mr. X
08-05-2008, 02:21 PM
Atheism is believing there is no higher being/s.

here is a definition of atheism:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

I take back what I said about it being a religion, but I can't change my vote. It's not a religion per se but it is a belief/philosophy.

Black Man
08-05-2008, 02:32 PM
Atheism is believing there is no higher being/s.

here is a definition of atheism:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

I take back what I said about it being a religion, but I can't change my vote. It's not a religion per se but it is a belief/philosophy.

WHAT IS RELIGION?

Ritter
08-05-2008, 02:35 PM
WHAT IS RELIGION?

Believing in a deity.

Listen... we've covered the linguistics part on the first page. No need to bring that up again. Just say whether you think Atheism is a religion, because that's the thread title. Not "Does Atheism mean religion?"

Mr. X
08-05-2008, 02:50 PM
This is suppose to be based on the OPs definition of religion. But it kinda fell apart when everyone decided defining it their own way. Here's a definition:

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

Black Man
08-05-2008, 02:52 PM
Believing in a deity.

Listen... we've covered the linguistics part on the first page. No need to bring that up again. Just say whether you think Atheism is a religion, because that's the thread title. Not "Does Atheism mean religion?"

APPARENTLY NOT, BECAUSE RELIGION ISN'T SOLELY THE BELIEF IN A DEITY. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IN A DEITY TO HAVE A RELIGION.

THERE'S A NEED TO BRING IT UP BECAUSE THAT'S THE FOUNDATION. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO SAY SOMETHING IS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WITH A UNKNOWN OR MISUNDERSTOOD MEANING OF A WORD THAT'S BEING USED?

Black Man
08-05-2008, 02:54 PM
This is suppose to be based on the OPs definition of religion. But it kinda fell apart when everyone decided defining it their own way. Here's a definition:

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion



THIS DEFINITION ISN'T COMPLETE, B.U.T ITS GOOD TO KNOW THIS IS WHAT YOU BASE YOUR ANSWERS OFF OF.

Cthulhu
08-05-2008, 03:17 PM
Atheism by itself can't be considered a religion. There is no coherent body of culture, belief, observance, etc. that constitutes atheism, only the position that god doesn't exist.

That doesn't mean that certain sets of belief under that heading can't be religious, like certain types of Buddhism and the numerous communist revolutions that turned into a cult-of-personality dictatorships. Calling atheism a relgion is like saying all theists share a single religion.

And to be specific, most of the people who identify as "atheists" usually fall under some category of post-Enlightenment philosophy, be it rationalism, materialism, humanism, nihilism, anarchism, Marxism, etc. Most people who identify as atheist aren't so naive as to claim they know 100% no gods exist, they just think the likelihood of unfalsifiable claims are so minimal there's no reason to entertain them. Like an earlier poster said, it's more like anti-theistic agnosticism if you really want to be a wordsmith about it.

diggy
06-16-2011, 12:25 AM
Most people who identify as atheist aren't so naive as to claim they know 100% no gods exist, they just think the likelihood of unfalsifiable claims are so minimal there's no reason to entertain them. Like an earlier poster said, it's more like anti-theistic agnosticism if you really want to be a wordsmith about it.

Actually, if there is even a small likelyhood of those claims being real, then THERE IS REASON to entertain them.

TSA
06-16-2011, 01:26 AM
im atheist, but it's just cause i think religion is stupid and don't believe in ghosts and shit. that it's enough for my beliefs to be a religion

i also don't think star trek is real and don't follow it's story, but you can't say star trek is a tv show and not believing in star trek is a tv show too just to have a dope wucorp thread.

Edgar Erebus
06-16-2011, 01:32 AM
Actually, if there is even a small likelyhood of those claims being real, then THERE IS REASON to entertain them.

There's also the utility thing. Why fuck up your present life for a future afterlife that probably doesn't even exist?

And if you even decided to "entertain that idea" (which doesn't make sense, you can't force yourself to be a believer if you have doubts), who says that you are going to pick the right god(s)? There's too many different religions claiming they are the only path to salvation.

diggy
06-16-2011, 11:56 AM
im atheist, but it's just cause i think religion is stupid and don't believe in ghosts and shit. that it's enough for my beliefs to be a religion.

This is the problem wit atheism. It is defined by the opposition of religion. It is against, rather than for something. It is based on ignorance, skeptisicm, no belief, and no hope. This is what makes it SO SO lame.





There's also the utility thing. Why fuck up your present life for a future afterlife that probably doesn't even exist?

And if you even decided to "entertain that idea" (which doesn't make sense, you can't force yourself to be a believer if you have doubts), who says that you are going to pick the right god(s)? There's too many different religions claiming they are the only path to salvation.

One could use logic to cast away what contradicts and keep what is consistent.

Cthulhu
07-15-2011, 04:22 PM
This is the problem wit atheism. It is defined by the opposition of religion. It is against, rather than for something. It is based on ignorance, skeptisicm, no belief, and no hope. This is what makes it SO SO lame.

This is completely, utterly ignorant and mistaken, except for the "skepticism" part, but the fact that you think skepticism is a bad thing means that it's probably not worth arguing with you.

Atheism is not against anything. It's a lack of belief if gods. If you are a naturalist skeptic as well, that disbelief extends to all supernatural things. In an ideal world the term "atheism" would be as superfluous as being an a-unicornist or a-leprechaunist.... but the fact that the majority of the world for much of human history have been some sort of theists is why there is a term for unbelief.

Atheism I suppose could be based on ignorance, but certainly not necessarily so, and hardly in practice. Many of the most prominent atheists, such as scientists, philosophers, and scholars who are professed atheists, became so because of questioning established beliefs. If we are talking about atheism based on skepticism, I don't see how this could be ignorance. I'm not saying an atheist couldn't be mistaken, but it is not by necessity ignorant to question the widely held idea that there absolutely must be a god and deciding for one's self that it isn't very likely.

No belief? Well if you mean belief in gods, then yes. That's exactly what the term atheism describes. You have to be a theist to think this is necessarily a bad thing. But atheists still believe in many things, just not generally supernatural claims.

No hope? This is complete bullshit. Sure, I'll bet there are atheists, just as there are theists, who feel lack of hope about things, but not believing in a god does not necessitate that one has no hope. Atheism for a skeptic requires one to appreciate life in its fullest because it is the only life you will ever have. It encourages one to fight injustices here and now in this world, because there probably isn't another one that will rectify things.

It is SO SO lame that in this day and age there are still people not questioning received wisdom about unfalsifiable claims of sky-daddies. It is SO SO lame that many theists cannot even step outside of their own subjectivity for a second to understand that atheists are not bogeymen with no morals. It is SO SO lame that we have to keep hearing your pathetic smears against unbelievers

Cthulhu
07-15-2011, 04:34 PM
Actually, if there is even a small likelyhood of those claims being real, then THERE IS REASON to entertain them.

This is called Pascal's Wager, and it has been considered a very weak philosophical argument for a long time now.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/

Scroll down to "5. Objections to Pascal's Wager" Alot of it is quite technical, but worth the read if you would like to understand why agnostics, atheists, and unbelievers don't take it as a serious reason to believe in a god we have no proof of.

Fresh
07-15-2011, 08:13 PM
i dont believe in anything! no one has enough reason to believe in anything and to 'take sides'. i think if we keeping asking why? why? we're gonna end up at either randomness, or intelligence (in whatever form)

i dont have anything against people who are willing to take sides on a an intelligent creator or just randomness

what gets me is THE BIBLE and religions based on old books. especially with christianity because of the content of the stories, talking snakes, angels, noahs ark, walking on water, i mean really ???? REALLY??? i dont see how anyone IS CAPABLE to be dumb enough to believe this stuff!!

however one thing i hold above all else is PERSONAL HAPPINESS. happiness in life is all that matters period! if people ARE able to believe in this stuff and live a happy life, then good for them.

id rather be a dumb fuck but be the happiest man alive than be the most knowledgable, wisest soul but be miserable and sad, for sure

Edgar Erebus
07-20-2011, 03:43 AM
One could use logic to cast away what contradicts and keep what is consistent.
Is that supposed to be "Personal Jesus self-service restaurant? Take what you like, eat how much you want for an entrance fee?

JASPER
07-20-2011, 04:27 AM
Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. Also, I completely agree with Cthulhu.