PDA

View Full Version : LaVeyan Satanism


SID
08-21-2008, 08:42 AM
I have been reading about Anton LaVey recently and his concept of "satanism"

I find his philosophy interesting....he does not claim to worship satan or the devil he just uses satan as a symbol (the opposition to organised religon) seen as satan is the enemy of most world religions.

He beileves that man should not ignore his pre-programmed primordial instincts of lust, indulgence and individualism but rather give in to his inner desires, and that subduing them can only do harm to ones self.

The Nine Satanic Statements

Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another’s lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm little children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them

ZcoLg_t4BQ0

Dont get it twisted iam not a satanist, i just research a lot of stuff....

What are your views on this philosophy? do you think it will work for the benefit of the individual or against it?

Discuss

TSA
08-21-2008, 09:14 AM
its easy to submit to this cause it relishes in weakness.
the religion it fights to oppose preaches to reach for purposes greater then yourself through strength, this one says give in because it's easy.

weakness.

SID
08-21-2008, 09:22 AM
True..very true..

KERZO
08-21-2008, 10:14 AM
Yeah i think there's some intellectual points to this but linking it to satan is just jumping on the anti-religion bandwagon....why not say 'look after your own shyt and respect others'...thats basically the jist of it IMO.

RevRes
08-22-2008, 12:18 AM
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.


? Signal? There are signs someone is interested .. but what signal is he referring to?


When in another’s lair, show them respect or else do not go there.

Fair enough...

If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.

? You're a dick head

Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

Wouldn't my employing it require me to acknowledge it?

Unless I did it by accident maybe? But then how would I know to acknowledge it?

Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

Funny, existence is vital yet thousands of individuals stop existing in this world everyday(the important ones must still be there), and the many systems that make up existence continue to disorder with absolutely no negative effect caused unto me...

Sounds to me like what's "vital" is subjective, and in this case unfalsifiable...

Pseudo-intellectual drivel...

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-22-2008, 01:38 AM
Pseudo-intellectual drivel...

co-sign...

SID
08-22-2008, 05:35 AM
Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.


? Signal? There are signs someone is interested .. but what signal is he referring to?


When in another’s lair, show them respect or else do not go there.

Fair enough...

If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.

? You're a dick head

Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

Wouldn't my employing it require me to acknowledge it?

Unless I did it by accident maybe? But then how would I know to acknowledge it?

Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

Funny, existence is vital yet thousands of individuals stop existing in this world everyday(the important ones must still be there), and the many systems that make up existence continue to disorder with absolutely no negative effect caused unto me...

Sounds to me like what's "vital" is subjective, and in this case unfalsifiable...

Pseudo-intellectual drivel...

When he says mating signal he is just reinforcing his belief that we are just highly intelligent animals.
The only difference is that humans mating ritual is a lot more complex then lesser animals
for example "do you want to come back to my flat" and "do you wanna move in" could all be percieved as mating rituals, because in essence thats what they are, mating signals form a highly developed brain.

Treating people cruely if they annoy you
i dont believe in this statement exactly but i understand the reason/concept behind it, he brings humans and social contact down to the most basic level of "tit for tat" without social barriers, morals and ettiquette..again lowering human socialising to the level of animals..

He dosent say acknowledge magic as a whole, but more the power of magic, you could be dabbling about in the black arts not fully believing the possibilites or power that it contains
but he says if you employ it successfully (the magic taking an obvious worldly manifestation) then you must acknoweldge the power that magic wields

By this rebuttal i see that you are merely arguing for the sake of arguing as you post makes little sense as is not in tune with the quoted statement
he is saying satan represents our existence as a human and our needs, instead of lowering your quality of life for the sake of some illusionary religious belief

Yes "vital" is subjective as is almost everything in life..even the most core element of existence "reality" is a totally subjective entity
You just have to align yourself with what your "reality" consits of and it then only then does it become "truth".

I would not call this pseudo intellectual drivel at all, you come to that conclusion because you do not believe in magic and you class it as maybe pseudoscience much like many other paranormal/supernatural phenomena.
I believe in magic, and i believe it was utilized heavily in order to construct the ancient world as technology was non-existent, they needed a subsitute which they found in magic
Humans have been using magic since the dawn of time and continue to use it....

Charles Barry
08-22-2008, 11:15 AM
I've read a bit about this dude and I've concluded that he's a clown and so are his followers.

RevRes
08-22-2008, 12:35 PM
When he says mating signal he is just reinforcing his belief that we are just highly intelligent animals.
The only difference is that humans mating ritual



Uh, between prosititutes who just blow you, well guarded girls who may take months I don't think it can be said there is "a ritual". and certainly not "a signal"





for example "do you want to come back to my flat" and "do you wanna move in" could all be percieved as mating rituals,



Yes, but his comment was about a singular signal.
It makes absolutely no sense to suggest such a universal signal exists with humans.
And the context of the statement seems to imply it does, so your comment is kind of redundant.

Treating people cruely if they annoy you
i dont believe in this statement exactly

but i understand the reason/concept behind it, he brings humans and social contact down to the most basic level of "tit for tat" without social barriers, morals and ettiquette..again lowering human socialising to the level of animals..

I think you are white washing his statement to make him sound more pleasant.
Treating someone without mercy because they are an annoyance, is the most illogical childish shit I've ever heard.



He dosent say acknowledge magic as a whole,
but more the power of magic, you could be dabbling about in the black arts not fully believing the possibilites or power that it contains
but he says if you employ it successfully (the magic taking an obvious worldly manifestation) then you must acknoweldge the power that magic wields


But if you're acknowledging that it successfully created a positive effect on your end, you've already acknowledged it's power,(the effect is the end result of it's power) thus that statement makes absolutely no sense at all.



By this rebuttal

That wasn't a rebuttal that was me just poking fun at a delusional person, and your rebuttal shows you believe in spiritualistic bull shit *hat dances out of thread*

RevRes
08-22-2008, 12:43 PM
And there is no such thing as "Pseudoscience", something is either science or it isn't, to say otherwise is pseudo intellectual philosophical garbage.

SID
08-24-2008, 04:11 AM
Uh, between prosititutes who just blow you, well guarded girls who may take months I don't think it can be said there is "a ritual". and certainly not "a signal"







Yes, but his comment was about a singular signal.
It makes absolutely no sense to suggest such a universal signal exists with humans.
And the context of the statement seems to imply it does, so your comment is kind of redundant.


I think you are white washing his statement to make him sound more pleasant.
Treating someone without mercy because they are an annoyance, is the most illogical childish shit I've ever heard.



But if you're acknowledging that it successfully created a positive effect on your end, you've already acknowledged it's power,(the effect is the end result of it's power) thus that statement makes absolutely no sense at all.




That wasn't a rebuttal that was me just poking fun at a delusional person, and your rebuttal shows you believe in spiritualistic bull shit *hat dances out of thread*



Where did he say anything about a "singular signal" he said "the mating signal" which is compramised of the many different methods that humans use to find a suitable partner and mate, the mating method varies from person to person, so he compresses all the possible methods of the mating ritual in one word and describes it as the mating signal to avoid any confusion.



not really if you want to be logical...a person wishes to come into your home, firstly they would not be invited if there not on your level, so if they annoy you it will be purposely done
just to piss you off.

Its like if a spider steps into a scorpion nest, he dont have to do shit but they will duel to the death...he again is bringing the level of humans down to an animalistic, terratorial level..which might be a healthy change to the world, seen as most peorple utilize deception, fakeness and all those sneaky human traits to get around confrontation.
If we accept confrantation instead of hiding behind a vail of deceit, humans will be a lot more aware of whats what and their position in the chain, reducing the amount of pent up anger being released in some times horrific and evil ways.

But if you're acknowledging that it successfully created a positive effect on your end, you've already acknowledged it's power,(the effect is the end result of it's power) thus that statement makes absolutely no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense, you are just reading everything from a critical position, if you open that little head of yours a bit there are a world of possibilites that will flood your mind, and enable you to attain a higher level of understanding and wisdom.


Yes it was. I believe in the spirit/the cosmic conciousness, thats as far as it goes..i also believe that we have not tapped into the power that the human brain contains, i believe real magic can be utilized only to the highler learned mind...i recommend you read Liber Null

Peace

SID
08-24-2008, 04:18 AM
And there is no such thing as "Pseudoscience", something is either science or it isn't, to say otherwise is pseudo intellectual philosophical garbage.

In mr. revres point of view

RevRes
08-24-2008, 03:35 PM
Where did he say anything about a "singular signal"




Yes, "mating signal" not "mating signals" which is plural.



Like I said singular.


not really if you want to be logical...a person wishes to come into your home, firstly they would not be invited if there not on your level



What level and what authority was given to you to decide "levels" ? People are not a commodity and it is not within your juristiction to make such judgement.
Again childish.




It makes perfect sense, you are just reading everything from a critical position, if you open that little head of yours a bit there are a world of possibilites that will flood your mind, and enable you to attain a higher level of understanding and wisdom.


If opening my mind means not being critical... then just wow...
So in other words you have absolutely no way of defending your point? Ok then lol



Yes it was. I believe in the spirit/the cosmic conciousness, thats as far as it goes..i also believe that we have not tapped into the power that the human brain contains, i believe real magic can be utilized only to the highler learned mind...i recommend you read Liber Null

Thanks but no thanks.

RevRes
08-24-2008, 03:39 PM
In mr. revres point of view

No. Empiricism isn't based on perspective, it's based on data.

SID
08-26-2008, 05:21 AM
Yes, "mating signal" not "mating signals" which is plural.



Like I said singular.




What level and what authority was given to you to decide "levels" ? People are not a commodity and it is not within your juristiction to make such judgement.
Again childish.




If opening my mind means not being critical... then just wow...
So in other words you have absolutely no way of defending your point? Ok then lol




Thanks but no thanks.


Dont take the word to literally, he says "mating signal" meaning all the collective signs of mating in one word.


You are the judge of your own affairs, you decide if people are on your level, if they are not you do not connect and do not become friends...quite simple really.

Your critical of every single thing in this thread when some points align perfectly with rational logic, and rational logic is only critised by idiots

You are most likely a very critical person, in which case you will never find answers

J-Cee
08-26-2008, 05:34 AM
I think some of his points are valid,but i don't feel the need to relate it to satan or be part of his following...

SID
08-26-2008, 05:37 AM
nahh i couldent be a part of his following...iam just highlighting the good points on his philosophy.

He uses the word satan for two reasons, to attract attention and as a symbol that opposes religion. since the devil is the enemy of religion

J-Cee
08-26-2008, 05:44 AM
yeh true,most of his points i would follow in life anyway..but yeh.
Yes i think using satan is mainly to attract attention..and that it represents what man fears,but in my opinion if anyone part of his following joined for one sake of being against religion..then what is his following?it could be considered a a type of religion in itself,so it contradicts itself in a way..

SID
08-26-2008, 05:53 AM
To be specific satan is the symbol used to opose organised religion which prohibits the enjoyment of life, his uses the word religon in a almost sarcastic pisstaking way....

Its not for people who soley appose religion, its for people who are sick of the supressing and contradictory ideals and beliefs of the main world religons..they seek spirituality in a sense, but without that supressing of human desires and instinctual lusts

J-Cee
08-26-2008, 06:11 AM
i can understand that,i guess alot of ppl feel that they have to belong to a group to get the point across, but yeh i guess theyre are power in numbers

Koolish
08-26-2008, 12:49 PM
looking at humans as just animals really sucks the fun out of life.

TSA
08-26-2008, 01:16 PM
not to mention its a cop out from the weak and is less anti religion(cause it is one) and more anti-self improvement/having a backbone.

this is the religion of spinelessness

SID
08-28-2008, 04:35 AM
Actually youou could call it the religon of complete realness.....straight living life to the full, and enjoying it, disregarding supernatural drivel about god-men and flying horses.

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-28-2008, 06:04 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

Actually youou could call it the religon of complete realness.....straight living life to the full, and enjoying it, disregarding supernatural drivel about god-men and flying horses.

Except that its foundations is that man is just a highly intelligent animal* which is a lie, its not reality. It's a conclusion made by western science without studying the whole of mans Spirit. In fact all they have studyed so far is the lower mind, the animal spirit and the physical (sphere 7 and 8, 9 and also 10 respectively) so it's no suprise that thats what they concluded. Perhaps if they got past their own egos (the lower mind!) and asked or studied the works of those who have studied the whole of mans spirit we wouldn't get "religions" like this that retard mans spiritual growth.

It's not life to the full because it doesn't fulfill the reason for mans existence. Enjoyment comes from within, not from satisfying your every animalistic desire.

SHEM HETEP

*which is laughable in the first place because generally speaking, animals show an intellect that is far superior to what humans show on a general basis.

SID
08-28-2008, 08:14 AM
Peace Falcon

Just to let you know i dont believe in this philosophy/religon, i just like debating..even if its something i dont believe, it makes you think if i can sway people toward something without me actually believing it (which i have done may times)..it proves something.

It proves that any religion/philosophy doesent really have a solid foundation/structure to it, its more abstracted and broken theories and thoughts tried to be organised through regulated rules and beliefs...if someone can be swayed so easily..it means what they thought before held no real meaning within them...which resonates with more people then you think.

I do not turn to any organised teachings, certain philosophies are ok, seen as they are not regemented beliefs that must be followed, only schools of thought, which helps organise some peoples thoughts and personal beliefs into a fairly stable thought structure.

We all have ouw own reality, which consits of our own truths..all directing toward an exterior entity that has shaped universal existence, without us realising it or not.

My beliefs are as follows

1. The universe is the key to creation and to understanding our purpose and potential

2. We are all binded by a lifeforce (qi), that gives energy to all and can be utilized to maximum effect to help progress us as a race

3. God is everything and everyone, a baby is a manifestaion of gods will and drive, god is the universe - the abode of the spirits and the universe is where all matter is re-directed and re-animated

4. The human spirit is undestructable and survives after death of the crude shell, we exist through the re-distribution of our energy into the universe in to what ever form the universe desires.

5. the human brain is a powerfull tool and a cosmic key which holds the some of the secrets of the universe, and can be unlocked through meditation, deep contemplation and research.

6. Plants are humans natural teachers, nothing comes above them they are before us and after us, they have helped alter the conciousness of humans for centuries which grants acsess to information and understanding beyond normal comprehention (cosmic consiousness)

7. Life is a neverending cycle of life and death, good and bad, light and dark all balanced and maintained to perfection through the will and collective consciousness of all existence.

8.All matter exists in duality, maintaing the balance of existence (yin yang)

9. All religons are in essence roots from the same tree all directing toward realisation of a higher entity, made to suit the culture, lifestyle of the race they are attributed too....therefore there is only one religion which all humans believe in, subconciously or consciously.



Those are my truths...


PEACE

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-29-2008, 01:04 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings Sideous...


Just to let you know i dont believe in this philosophy/religon, i just like debating..


Yeah I thought as much from seeing some of your other posts, thats why I tried to keep my reply directed at what you said not at you personally.

I might comment on some of your beliefs when I get the chance, might make for interesting discussion.

SHEM HETEP

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-29-2008, 08:06 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings Sidious...

Just concerning your truths, I wanted to ask you about this one:


7. Life is a neverending cycle of life and death, good and bad, light and dark all balanced and maintained to perfection through the will and collective consciousness of all existence.



What are your definitions here for good and bad, because for me personally I wouldn't put good and bad in the same breath as "life and death...light and dark...yin and yang.

SHEM HETEP

SID
08-29-2008, 08:26 AM
I mention good an bad because there are both needed in order to maintain universal balance. All matter exists in duality, thats why i put good and bad, light and dark, life and death in the same sentence, they are all dual concepts/truths that are all perfectly balanced intune with the cosmic order.

Everthing varies upon definition thats where most of the clashes in science, philosophy and religion come from "definition" thats why i say we all should have our own personal truths so we dont get mixed up in confusing and pointless debates on definition, my truth was listed above your truth aligns with khemeticism (i dont know if thats the correct word to describe it, correct me if iam wrong).

For all its worth my "definition" of good and bad are

Good:The will to distribute positivity in all its forms

Bad: the will to distribute negativity in all its forms

Again posite and negative, dual concepts that are highly importantant in the perfect balance of existence.

i hope that was clear


PEACE

Koolish
08-29-2008, 12:41 PM
sounds like taoism.

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-29-2008, 09:02 PM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings Sidious...

...you're right, if we get caught up debating definitions we will be here forever. Never the less it is important to understand definitions of certain key words of a discussion between those you are communicating with other wise you will struggle to get your point of view across.

Concerning good and bad, yin and yang I will explain why I brought it up, not necessarily to debate your view but just to put forth mine.

For me the definition of "Good" is living in accordance with Universal Law (Maat). What is Universal Law? It's the balance that you have already suggested. It is opposite, yet comlimentary polarities of the one. Yet neither of these polarities in any case can be considered "bad" or "evil". Evil could be considered the opposite to good, yes, but it is not complimentary, it cannot exist in harmony with good. It only exists within man as result of using free will to act out of harmony with Universal Law (Maat).

There is no evil in nature (outside of man), when destruction happens in nature it happens because our Universe is under the control of forces (neteru, angels) put in place by the Supreme Consciousness to ensure the perfect working system. When destruction happens through man, 9 times out of 10 (probably more like 99,999 out of 100,000) it is done through the lower mind, the ego, which operates without thought of Universal Law. Instead it operates through the misunderstanding that man is seperate, both individually from it's fellow man and other organisms, and as a people seperate from nature. In other words from a selfish foundation.

Evil is not involved in the perfect harmony of the universe and is not the opposite to good. Good is the perfect harmony of the universe. We should not get too comfortable in thinking that it doesn't matter how much evil we do because the universe will just balance it up for us. In the end we are God (not just gods but collectively God) the neteru were put in place to maintain balance by us, but if the one who put these forces in place do not themselves act in harmony with these Laws, how long before this place destroys it self.

They say Mars used to have a similar habitat to earth. I wonder what happened there to make it the desolate, inhospitable planet that it is?

SHEM HETEP

RevRes
08-30-2008, 12:52 AM
Dont take the word to literally, he says "mating signal" meaning all the collective signs of mating in one word.



Hmm? Mating means the act of procreation signal means a symbollic gesture or sign used to imply something.

Mating signal would thus be a single signal meant to imply the desire to mate; our species has no such signal.

Perhaps he just isn't as much into composition as he is into philosophy?






You are the judge of your own affairs, you decide if people are on your level,

Your judgement is not pure, what is and isn't just; in that flawed organ of yours; is nothing more than a chemical reaction.
It is not your place to make such judgement and anyone who thinks it is is far too immature to be commenting on things as complex as human interaction.


Your critical of every single thing in this thread

To be critical is to be objective, to be objective is to be unbiased; objective truth is unbiased truth; unbiased truth is fact.


Everything else is redundant...

rational logic is only critised by idiots

Rationalism is not the basis of objective reality, empiricism is, human rationalism is itself irrational.

Philosophy theology and anything else related to the human element is obsolete, and anyone who can't handle that, should kill themself; to make room for someone who can.
They are promoting an unfit gene line; that has no place and is holding the world back from it's true potential.


You are most likely a very critical person, in which case you will never find answers

If it wasn't for critical people you couldn't even have this conversation. If you aren't critical you will never find answers; the only thing you will ever do, is wallow in your own ignorance.

SID
08-30-2008, 11:05 AM
To progress you need balance...

Iam critical but not overly critical....you need to erase your pre-programmed stance/standpoint before entering any kind of talks my friend..be critical by all means but balance it with understanding, logic and cause.

What are your views on how we should judge what reality is, and what truth is?

Do you believe in a higher entity?

RevRes
08-30-2008, 04:21 PM
To progress you need balance...



Science is all there is; spirituality is a way of escaping through a type of high and I can no longer stand weak people.

Iam critical but not overly critical....you need to erase your pre-programmed stance/standpoint before entering any kind of talks my friend..be critical by all means but balance it with understanding, logic and cause.

Logic cannot outweigh empirical evidence; empirical evidence doesn't rely on my personal bias. We start with logic, but ultimately we move beyond the point of a starting hypothesis and into theory; it is theory and law that matter, not belief and sincerity.

What are your views on how we should judge what reality is, and what truth is?

If you can demonstrate empirical proof or evidence for something, then you have an objective basis for that something. That is reality.

Do you believe in a higher entity?


From the stand point that the quantum is a language and since all languages originate from intelligible sources, I think a higher entity is required.

Clearly material existence being ordered into an intelligible language requires an immaterial source; to say otherwise is a contradiction to the finite beginning created by the Big Bang.

Those who believe in an anthropic principal, cannot show lesser self organizing laws in nature; so to believe that the entirety of existence is self organized, is baseless.

SID
08-31-2008, 01:48 PM
You have a heavy reliance on empirical evidence, not that its a bad thing but there are things that will never be explained by empirical evidence...

You must remember that we are all humans, inconsistent and fundamentally oblvious to the nature of our existence..we create theories for things that cannot be percieved by us, for example the big bang..it is widely believed that this was the method in which the universe was created "where is the empirical evidence for that, in fact where is the evidence for it at all? its a theory like everything.

Can you see, feel, smell or touch kinetic energy, you can see its supposed actions but you cannot see the energy itself..therefore the empirical logic is flawed and rendered obselete.

We have been programmed to see things from a certain direction, when we try and search for true meaning from another perspective we get labeled crazy, disillusional or un-realistic.

What is darkness-the abscence of light...what is light-? we can see it but we cannot exlpain it in the slightest, if you try too you are being a fool..its like trying to explain color to a blind man...you just cant do it.

RevRes
08-31-2008, 03:41 PM
You have a heavy reliance on empirical evidence, not that its a bad thing but there are things that will never be explained by empirical evidence...



How would you hope to establish that? I think there very well may be a point where we know everything through empiricism.


You must remember that we are all humans, inconsistent and fundamentally oblvious to the nature of our existence..


Empirical evidence exists even without us there to observe it.
If you are to say we are inconsistant and fundamentally make mistakes; it only makes sense then to do away with rationalistic philosophy.

where is the empirical evidence for that, in fact where is the evidence for it at all? its a theory like everything.

Ever heard of big bang ripples? It's not a theory in academia any longer; the big bang happened and we are still witnessing it.

The infinite static universe was shot down decades ago; it isn't coming back. Hoyle was defeated.

Can you see, feel, smell or touch kinetic energy,

Don't need to; you can recreate it, we have sensitive tech. that can feel kinetic energy.
you can see its supposed actions but you cannot see the energy itself

You don't need to see it, it's force and it's origin are confirmed through mathematics and calculations made by tools which measure it's force on objects. It's existence does not require you to observe it.

Again, human reason is not the basis of reality; this species is redundant.

We have been programmed to see things from a certain direction,


Empiricism doesn't rely on what we see, and if that's the case, then philosophy which is based soley on observation and not at all on data is worthless.

What is darkness-the abscence of light


The stimulation of the optical nerves inside your skull.
The same with beauty which is also an illusion.

The "what is darkness but a lack of light, what is cold but a lack of warmth, what is evil but the absence of good" way of reasoning is nothing more than a cliche; made up by hopeless romantics, who want there to be something interesting.

Such people are not objective; such people do not want truth, such people are not noble.


I respect that people feel the need for there to be something exta; but there simply isn't.

SID
08-31-2008, 04:17 PM
Are you a atheist?

RevRes
08-31-2008, 07:08 PM
Are you a atheist?

I think in objective reality there is a deity, I think the data to back the existence of such a deity will come to fruition one day.

SID
09-02-2008, 10:48 AM
Honestly no matter the circumstances how can you PROVE the existence of a higher entity through data?, what would the data consist of, how would we know how to interpret it?

The only way to feel "god" is to achieve a oneness with nature, a oneness with yourself..which will then aid meditation which through time patience, understanding and will experience allow you to lock into the cosmic conciousness which permeates all living beings, and understand that reality is an illusion projected through the desires of oneself.

RevRes
09-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Honestly no matter the circumstances how can you PROVE the existence of a higher entity through data?, what would the data consist of, how would we know how to interpret it?


Since I've yet to see such data how would I possibly know? That's not really an argument.
I agree it's difficult to imagine, but no more ridiculous now than the suggestion of an invisible force acting on all objects in space and warping light would have been to people centuries ago.

How odd something sounds to us does not affect the factuality behind that something.


The only way to feel "god" is to achieve a oneness with nature,

I don't think God is something you merely feel, I think a deity is a literal being.
Not in nature but completely seperate, capable of ripping apart space time capable of both existing and not existing/capable of commiting a logical contradiction.

Nature itself to me is a series of events happening symbiotically but not a conscious entity.

which permeates all living beings, and understand that reality is an illusion projected through the desires of oneself.

I don't agree that my desires project things, my thirst naturally leads me to the desire of water, that doesn't mean I personally I'm projecting H2O

As for all living things being conscious, I can't comment, there's currently no way for me to test that.

SID
09-04-2008, 10:59 AM
If i were to say to you that the universe in ts entirety is a manifestation of the divine, and that we are cosmic beings by nature what would you say?

Everything is connected some how - space gave birth to the sun, the sun feeds the earth, flowers grow from nourishment of the sun, the bee fetches the pollen from the flower, the bee makes honey, the honey sustains a family allowing reproduction and continuation of the human race.

A break in this chain would destroy the cycle of life, and these are only the physical links in the chain. We as humans are intuned with the the world around us (subconciously), its like when you drive a car at the begining its hard and you it takes time to master, but once you've mastered driving -you feel the car, you instantly know when to stop, ease the gear, look in mirrors, just by listening/feeling the engine and being one with your ride.

Most of us are unaware of our frequency with the one -the binding lifeorce, we have been manipulated and programmed to accept this material world, the media, fashion, drugs and sex as the ultimate reality, once we shed these man-made concepts of reality we will be more intuned with the universe, and with each other.