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Fatal Guillotine
08-21-2008, 08:56 PM
An absolute truth, sometimes called a universal truth, is an unalterable and permanent fact. The concept of absolute truths - what they are and whether they exist - has been debated among many different groups of people. Philosophers have waded in the muck of defining absolute truth for millennia. For example, Plato believed that absolute truth existed, but that truth on earth was merely a shadow of great forms of absolute truth existing in the universe. Alternatively, many believe in relative truths, where facts may vary depending on the circumstances.

It’s difficult to disprove the concept of absolute truth, since saying that there are no absolute truths - that it is absolutely true that no absolute truth exists - is itself an absolute truth. One can say, “From what I know, I believe there are no absolute truths.” Still, this is murky territory.

There are a few things that we all agree are absolutely true, but they depend upon an agreement in definition. Take, for example, the case where a person has a cat in his house. Obviously, no one would agree, as an absolute truth, that this cat, “was the nicest cat in the world.” However, most people would agree, given evidence that at that specific point in time, that there was a cat in the house. Some might quibble over the fact that people might define “cat” differently; that is, some might not describe a lion in a house as "a cat in a house."

People often look to science to determine whether something constitutes an absolute truth, but science tends to avoid absolutism. Even when scientists reasonably believe an explanation, it is often couched as theory or proofs. However, as we advance in science, we often find ourselves disproving proofs. Yet a great deal of proof on a subject makes it more likely, but does not make it absolute truth.

Many religions contain absolute truths. For example, a Christian might say, “ I know Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. By following his teachings, I will live in heaven when I die.” To the Christian this may be an absolute truth. Imposing this statement on others is where this absolute truth, to the Christian, becomes debated. While many may agree that the Christian believes absolutely that Jesus is his Lord, they are unlikely to agree that Jesus is everyone's Lord is an absolute truth. When a person’s absolute truth is extended to all others, it can be viewed as a philosophical statement of exclusion. Those who do not endorse the absolute truth of another are either pitied or attacked.

However, proper functioning societies and communities often rely on certain agreed-upon truths. For example, the US holds rape and murder as crimes and uses language to define rape and murder. Failure for a society to define such terms, and agree upon their definition could result in chaos.

Thus while absolute truths may be hard to come by, and difficult to agree upon, some amount of truths are generally required for a properly functioning society. Whether these truths are absolute or universal is a matter that has been and will likely continue to be debated.

TSA
08-21-2008, 09:01 PM
man, the fuckin volumes you type in make it hard to read but you speak some real shit from what i've skimmed.

absolute truth doesn't exist, it never will and never has

'fact' or 'information' or 'knowledge' is never rational, its a matter of faith. You have faith in whatever means you recieve your information and therefore you go on faithful of it.

this faith is known as truth

i'll say 90% of what humanity 'knows' each and everyone one of us is a religious faith in something that has been told to us and we have faith in it for some reason.

i also think that everything we know and what we hold as true is a part of an even more fundamental desire to be valued or project ourselves, but i'll explain my theory on human value and projection in another thread

WARPATH
08-21-2008, 09:10 PM
An absolute truth, sometimes called a universal truth, is an unalterable and permanent fact. The concept of absolute truths - what they are and whether they exist - has been debated among many different groups of people. Philosophers have waded in the muck of defining absolute truth for millennia. For example, Plato believed that absolute truth existed, but that truth on earth was merely a shadow of great forms of absolute truth existing in the universe. Alternatively, many believe in relative truths, where facts may vary depending on the circumstances.

It’s difficult to disprove the concept of absolute truth, since saying that there are no absolute truths - that it is absolutely true that no absolute truth exists - is itself an absolute truth. One can say, “From what I know, I believe there are no absolute truths.” Still, this is murky territory.

There are a few things that we all agree are absolutely true, but they depend upon an agreement in definition. Take, for example, the case where a person has a cat in his house. Obviously, no one would agree, as an absolute truth, that this cat, “was the nicest cat in the world.” However, most people would agree, given evidence that at that specific point in time, that there was a cat in the house. Some might quibble over the fact that people might define “cat” differently; that is, some might not describe a lion in a house as "a cat in a house."

People often look to science to determine whether something constitutes an absolute truth, but science tends to avoid absolutism. Even when scientists reasonably believe an explanation, it is often couched as theory or proofs. However, as we advance in science, we often find ourselves disproving proofs. Yet a great deal of proof on a subject makes it more likely, but does not make it absolute truth.

Many religions contain absolute truths. For example, a Christian might say, “ I know Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. By following his teachings, I will live in heaven when I die.” To the Christian this may be an absolute truth. Imposing this statement on others is where this absolute truth, to the Christian, becomes debated. While many may agree that the Christian believes absolutely that Jesus is his Lord, they are unlikely to agree that Jesus is everyone's Lord is an absolute truth. When a person’s absolute truth is extended to all others, it can be viewed as a philosophical statement of exclusion. Those who do not endorse the absolute truth of another are either pitied or attacked.

However, proper functioning societies and communities often rely on certain agreed-upon truths. For example, the US holds rape and murder as crimes and uses language to define rape and murder. Failure for a society to define such terms, and agree upon their definition could result in chaos.

Thus while absolute truths may be hard to come by, and difficult to agree upon, some amount of truths are generally required for a properly functioning society. Whether these truths are absolute or universal is a matter that has been and will likely continue to be debated.

Phew, must've been a head ache writing that up!


Absolute Truth:

Anything is possible.

RevRes
08-21-2008, 09:52 PM
What is true, is objectively true, everything else is rationalistic bull shit.
If it can be demonstrated through empiricism it is correct.
It doesn't need to debated, I can make it happen again and again and thus there is no argument to be had.

Science > philosophy > theology

that said, science cannot comment on things that are impossible within nature, because ultimately the quantum allows for anything that can happen, to happen on a large enough time line and in an infinite omniverse made up of small finite universes.

That is to say Einstein > Aristotle.

SID
08-22-2008, 08:28 AM
Everything in life is subjective..even the most core element of existence "reality" is a totally subjective entity

You just have to align yourself with what your "reality" consits of and it then only then does it become "truth".

My truth is not yours his is not ours..and so on

The Void
08-23-2008, 02:48 AM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PHXCXGBTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QDW2DRG3L._SL500_AA240_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31J7575MQ1L._SL500_AA240_.jpg


That is all you need to discern truths.

LORD NOSE
08-23-2008, 10:23 AM
Truth is the other side of falsehood existing on the same ball viewed at a time when truth is convenient for the viewer who may have his/her eyes half way opened at that time

The Void
08-23-2008, 01:47 PM
^^ Kind of like how a sasquatch corpse was discovered the same time an armada was sent to the Persian Gulf? Funny how we didn't get that news.... I'd provide a link but it's to a blog, and who knows how true those are.

GuardianOne
08-25-2008, 10:40 AM
Why worry your self about the Truth and False, stay in the present and live.

Peace

WARPATH
08-25-2008, 10:49 AM
Why worry your self about the Truth and False, stay in the present and live.

Peace

Because people distort the truth to their own advantage.

Fatal Guillotine
08-25-2008, 02:10 PM
so true take a look at history. and how it gets twisted. it's like an car accident happens in front of 4 people those 4 people are most likely to give you a different story individually.

Koolish
08-25-2008, 08:49 PM
What is true, is objectively true, everything else is rationalistic bull shit.
If it can be demonstrated through empiricism it is correct.
It doesn't need to debated, I can make it happen again and again and thus there is no argument to be had.

Science > philosophy > theology

that said, science cannot comment on things that are impossible within nature, because ultimately the quantum allows for anything that can happen, to happen on a large enough time line and in an infinite omniverse made up of small finite universes.

That is to say Einstein > Aristotle.

Einstein = Aristotle

Philosophers reference science, scientists respect philosophers. Each thing you mentioned (science, philosophy, theology) aims to achieve absolute truths in the three forms of reality as some accept it:
The Physical - Science
The Mental - Philosophy
The Spiritual - Theology

some people accept all three, some a combination of two, others only one. to assume each of them operates on lower or higher levels of intellect is an act of ignorance. those who work within them can all contain the same potential for intellectual thought, it is simply expressed and utilized in a different manner.

absolute truths are hard to determine as everything is not only based on interpretation, but also social influence. everyone believes a cat to be in the house (original post), but it is a lion. still technically a cat, but not everyone would hold the absolutely true belief, and thus the truth could not be absolute as it differs from person to person.

the only absolute truths i can find come closest to knowledge:
a wagon is a wagon.

that is an absolute truth.

hot fuck does reading philosophy give you a different state of mind.

Visionz
08-25-2008, 11:00 PM
Absolute Truth exists and can be best stated as It is what It is. The physical reality of everything is absolute fact but because we hardly understand anything around us there is by ignorance's very nature alot of confusion, guesswork and mistakes to be made. The advancement of knowledge in the last 100 or so years has been amazing. I hope the culturing of our souls starts catching up.

GuardianOne
08-26-2008, 01:11 AM
Because people distort the truth to their own advantage.

Then why would you want to have absolute truth? Is it not that when people start labeling things you find that they drift away from the humble truth so to say.

when a accident occurs, and 4 people observe it. If the first had to ask the others: Did you see that? By their very acknowledgement that they have is that not what happened?

A wagon is a wagon, how interesting. By definition this is what you know it as of now, how about a 2500 years ago - or 2500 years from now! Don't you find that the very existence of absolute truth takes on various meanings.

Koolish
08-26-2008, 11:44 AM
ok, here's an absolute truth.

i am a man. she is a woman.

an absolute truth is information that cannot be subject to change.

sex change operations don't count.

HOSUKAYA7
08-26-2008, 04:43 PM
I think that, in all human societies, kindness (or at least pretending to be kind, a practice i despise, but practice in order to survive) is the only surefire way to being truly successful and happy.
And Word to Koolish. Sexual Desire is an absolute truth, but how you react to it is what determines your fate, in many ways.
Sorry for rambling a bit, had a few beers, yadayadayada...

WARPATH
08-26-2008, 05:23 PM
Then why would you want to have absolute truth? Is it not that when people start labeling things you find that they drift away from the humble truth so to say.

when a accident occurs, and 4 people observe it. If the first had to ask the others: Did you see that? By their very acknowledgment that they have is that not what happened?

A wagon is a wagon, how interesting. By definition this is what you know it as of now, how about a 2500 years ago - or 2500 years from now! Don't you find that the very existence of absolute truth takes on various meanings.

A car hits into an old man who was crossing the street. The four witness all viewed the accident at a different angle.

Later, in court the witnesses tell what happened.

1st witness saw it and speaks the absolute truth by stating just the facts as far as he can tell: "The Car hit the old man crossing the street"

2nd witness tells what he saw: "The old man looked like he was having a heart attack and collapsed in front of the car. The driver was leaving the bar and was obviously intoxicated and didn't notice the old man."

3rd witness tells his version based on what he saw: "The old man was leaving a bar, before he attempted to cross the street. He was obviously intoxicated and staggered into the oncoming car."

4th witness tells his version based on what he saw: "The old man looked kinda gay and I think God gave him what was coming to him from all his years of faggotry pink shirt and ear ring wearing, so he divinely caused the old man to trip and fall before the car hit him."


Each witness gave their version of what they saw instead of what happened. The outcome of the courts descion can have a heavy effect on the driver based on who the jury sides with. Justice can only be served if there is an absolute truth.

STYLE
08-26-2008, 06:20 PM
What makes a man?

"a pair of testicles?"
-the dude






even scientific truths can be false depending on the situation.
this is why special relativity and quantum physics were created. to account for the anomalies you find when you examine the very fast or the very small. same goes for dark matter, dark energy and supermassive black holes

my truth:

good is good
evil is bad

love is good
hate is bad

life is good

God is good

God is Life

Olive Oil Goombah
08-26-2008, 07:20 PM
What makes a man?

"a pair of testicles?"
-the dude





Wise words indeed from an underappreciated voice.

GuardianOne
08-28-2008, 04:13 AM
male and female is this not what society knows. Basic society seem to navigate on what cannot be removed (like comfort and seciruty), is this permanent?

The accident example, are there not four situations here? Tkaing a look at the causations, the accient might have been a mistake, or probably a fault, maybe just mischief.

Hasn't this not drift from absolute truth? How can there be such with so many explanations?

Justice cannot be brought into this. Justice seems to be about what is deemed acceptible, to whom remains to those involved within that instance.

WARPATH
08-28-2008, 09:57 AM
male and female is this not what society knows. Basic society seem to navigate on what cannot be removed (like comfort and seciruty), is this permanent?

The accident example, are there not four situations here? Tkaing a look at the causations, the accient might have been a mistake, or probably a fault, maybe just mischief.

Hasn't this not drift from absolute truth? How can there be such with so many explanations?

Justice cannot be brought into this. Justice seems to be about what is deemed acceptible, to whom remains to those involved within that instance.

Hence the reason people manipulate the truth. It doesn't matter what the topic is or what people are manipulating, with out complete honesty corruption will persist.

GuardianOne
08-29-2008, 01:17 AM
Hence the reason people manipulate the truth. It doesn't matter what the topic is or what people are manipulating, with out complete honesty corruption will persist.


That's a strong point, its like corruption feeds of honesty - and manipulation is at the base. It all comes back to one thing...

Peace