PDA

View Full Version : Sufi Mysticism


SID
08-24-2008, 05:55 AM
Since words are the manifestations of objects, concepts, and truths, sufis feel that by continuous and complete attention to the meaning and reality of remembrance of God, they becomes the true manifestation of that remembrance. That is to say, with continuous, selfless remembrance, a Divine Attribute comes to predominate in the sufi's being.

The tariqat (spirtual path) is the way by which the sufi comes into harmony with the Divine Nature. This way is comprised of spiritual poverty (faqr), devotion and the continuous, selfless remembrance of God (dhikr), which are represented by the cloak of the dervish (khirqah).


Spiritual Poverty
This is both the feeling of being imperfect and needy, and the desire for perfection. The Prophet, Muhammad has said in this regard, "My honor is from spiritual poverty. I have been honored over and above all prophets by being graced with spiritual poverty." And God revealed to the Prophet, "Say, God increase my true knowledge of You." As this saying indicates, even though Muhammad was given the honor of Prophethood, it was still necessary that he feel his poverty and desire to be nearer to the essence of God.


The Cloak of the Darvish
The khirqah is the darvish's garment of honor and devotion. It symbolizes the Divine Nature and Attributes. Some people have mistakenly imagined that the cloak actually possesses these properties and that if one was to wear such a cloak, one would become a saint. However, wearing spiritual clothing does not make one spiritual. A sufi wears what he or she likes while being in harmony with what is socially approved. 'Ali said, "Wear those clothes that neither cause you to be looked down upon nor admired and envied." Thus, it is not the clothes that make the sufi; rather, it is the sufi's actions and inner being.


Recline on the throne of the heart,
and with purity in manner be a sufi.
-- Sa'di


The cloak is sewn with the needle of devotion and the thread of the selfless remembrance of God. One who wishes to be honored by this cloak of poverty must, with devotion, surrender to a spiritual guide. True devotion draws one's heart towards the Beloved. It involves continuous attention to the Truth and constant effort to let go of attention to the self. This includes unquestioned obedience to one's spiritual guide.


The guide, by spiritual means, penetrates to the depths of the disciple's soul, transmutes his or her negative qualities, and brings to nothing the impurities of the world of multiplicity. In other words, the guide takes the needle of devotion from the disciple's hand and with the thread of the disciple's selfless remembrance of God, sews the sufi cloak upon the disciple. Then, by the grace of this cloak of Divine Names and Attributes, the disciple will become a perfect human being.

Continuous, selfless remembrance of God
Contained in Absolute, Infinite Unity are forces which emanate and become manifested as created beings. Each being, according to its nature, receives grace from these forces. In the realm of words, the manifestations of these forces, or truths, are expressed by Divine Names. Examples are: the Living (al-Hayy), meaning the life of creation is directly connected with Him; and the Transcendent (al-'Ali), meaning the force of the universe is with Him.


The Divine Names, in the continuous, selfless remembrance of God (dhikr), are prescribed by the master of the spiritual path, in order to cure disciples of the disease of the self and its desires and fears. But this remembrance is of no value unless all of one's senses come to be fully centered on the meaning-reality of the respective Names. It is only by full acknowledgment and love of the reality of these Divine Names that attention to the self falls away. Then, the self becomes purified and adorned by the Divine Attributes.

The disciple is like a machine whose energy comes from devotion. This machine, by means of the selfless remembrance of God, transmutes all of the self's desires and fears into Divine Attributes. Gradually, the disciple's self passes away and the Divine Nature becomes manifest; then the disciple truly becomes the recipient of the sufi cloak, and the heart and soul become illuminated by the grace of the Divine Attributes. At this point the disciple is worthy of entering the spiritual feast of the sufis, which takes place in the "Tavern of Ruin" (kharabat>. This is the spiritual state of 'passing away of the self in God' (fana). Here, the sufi directly perceives the secrets of the Truth. As is said in the Koran,


"Only the purified experience It (the Truth)."

These purified ones, in Sufism, are called perfect human beings.

These stages occur in the course of the selfless remembrance of God (dhikr). The first stage, becoming emptied, entails letting go of negative qualities, the desires which originate from the self. The second stage of becoming illuminated involves polishing the heart and soul of the tarnish of belief in and attachment to the self. In the third stage, one's inner being becomes adorned by Divine Attributes. Ultimately, the being of the disciple becomes completely filled by the Attributes of the Truth, to the extent that there is no sign of his own limited existence. This fourth stage is called "self-having passed-away" (fana).



I thought of You so often
that I completely became You.
Little by little You drew near,
and slowly but slowly I passed away.


The disciple, through these stages of purification, travels the inner way, the spiritual path (tariqat). Having traveled this path, the disciple becomes a perfect being and arrives at the threshold of the Truth (haqiqat). Muhammaad said, "The shari'at is my speech, the tariqat my actions, and haqiqat my states."


One could liken the journey within the haqiqat, within the Truth, to training in a divine university, known in sufism as the "Tavern of Ruin" (kharabat). In this true center for higher education there are no professors, one's only guide being Absolute Love. Here one's only teacher is love, one's books are love, and one's being is love.


Before a perfected being enters this university, he or she can be defined. However, upon entering the Truth, one is indefinable, beyond the realm of words.



Footprints but come to the Ocean's shore.
Therein, no trace remains.
-- Rumi


If you ask his name, like Bayazid, he answers, "I lost him years ago. The more I seek him, the less I find." If you ask of his religion, like Rumi, he answers:


The way of a lover is not among the religions.
The church and state of lovers is God.


If you ask who he is, like Bayazid, he answers, "There is nothing under my cloak but God."


If he speaks, like Hallaj, you may hear him sing, "I am the Truth."


Such words can truly come only from perfected beings who have lost their 'selves' and become the manifestation of the Divine Nature and Divine Mysteries. Their selves have departed and only God remains.

What are your thoughts on sufisim?

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-24-2008, 06:46 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings Sidious...

I don't know a great deal on Sufism, but what I have read sounds good.

I have a book that connects Sufiism to Kamitic Spirituality. Its got some good stuff in it, will post some info when I get the chance.

SHEM HETEP

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-24-2008, 07:31 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

The book is "Egyptian Mystics: Seekers of the Way" by Moustafa Gadalla. Here is the basis gist of the book as written on page 19 under the heading THE SOURCE OF SUFISM

The common premise is that "Sufism" is an Islamic group practicing a form of mysticism that originated in Persia.

As the book progresses, we will find that "Sufism" has nothing to do with Islam or Persia, and everything to do with the quiet people of Ancient and Baladi Egypt. Two points of interest should be mentioned here:

The term and practices of "Sufism" surfaced as a result of Islamic conquests and the subsequent terrorizing of victims. In order for the Islamic-terrorized masses to maintain their ancient traditions, they had to camouflage old traditions under an Islamic garment.
The pure form of "Sufism" originated in Egypt. Other countries copied it and were quick to take the credit for it. Their application of "Sufism" is impure and incomplete, as we will find throughout this book.The common premise (mentioned above) about the roots and essence of "Sufism" is absolutely wrong, as we will conclude by examining the facts throughout this book. Here are just a few introductory facts:

The notion of an Islamic origin of "Sufism" is wrong. "Islamic Mysticism" is an oxymoron-as per the following select points:The mystical seekers who are called "Sufis" have always suffered from Islamic rule throughout the ages. Many have been killed. They have been accused of attempting to make innovations on the dogmas of Islam; of following practices forbidden by the Koran; of denying the very existence of a peronal Allah. The tolerance, or lack thereof, of Sufism in the Arabized/Islamized world is closely linked to the whim of the ruler and how he interprets/enforced Islamic laws. During certain periods, Sufism was/is tolerated; during others, it was outlawed and condemned.

The keynote of mysticism (Sufism) is the union between man and God, which in Islam is considered blasphemy; and as such punishable by death by any "Moslem", as "empowered" by the Koran itself!

Islamic teachings are characterized by a consuming fear of God's wrath, while the Egyptian model of mysticism (Sufism) emphasizes love and not fear. God is perceived in terms of emotional closeness - "the friend", "the lover" - whose love can be experienced personally and individually.

Mysticism (Sufism) is based on self-attained revelations by mystical means, which is contrary to Islam. Such revelations, as experienced by the mystical seekers (Sufis), are considered blasphemy and therefore are punishable by death, as established in the Koran.

The Egyptian mystical seekers (Sufis) include in their ritual practices (as well as public festivals) specific methods to achieve ecstatic proximity to God - through music, dance or song. This goes contrary to Islam - where music, singing, and dancing are strictly forbidden, as clearly stated in treatises on Islamic laws.

Contrary to Islamic doctrine, the Egyptian mysticism bridges the gulf between man and God with folk saints. Veneration of folk saints and pilgrimages to their shrines represent an important aspect of the Egyptian Balad mystical practices, which is totally against the Islamic doctrine.
...I will post more when I get the time.

SHEM HETEP

LORD NOSE
08-24-2008, 10:58 AM
Sufism is Great


a must read is a book titled

"When you hear hoofbeats, think of a Zebra"

diggy
08-24-2008, 11:13 PM
"That is to say, with continuous, selfless remembrance, a Divine Attribute comes to predominate in the sufi's being."

And what is the purpose of getting a divine attribute?

Can u do superhuman things like save the world from destruction?

Or... what?

WARPATH
08-25-2008, 10:46 AM
Interesting Thread...

"That is to say, with continuous, selfless remembrance, a Divine Attribute comes to predominate in the sufi's being."

And what is the purpose of getting a divine attribute?

Can u do superhuman things like save the world from destruction?

Or... what?


I heard a story of how the British encountered shape shifters when they were fighting the Zulu.

There also many stories in America about shape shifting.

When I asked someone who knows about these things he speculated, it would probably take a month of fasting with little water alone in the wilderness before you were blessed with that kind of power.

Not really pertaining to this thread but in a way it is.

Fatal Guillotine
08-25-2008, 02:16 PM
very insightful thread kinda remind slightly of taoism

Urban_Journalz
08-25-2008, 06:00 PM
Damn.

Sallam kid.

This is insane.

Lately I've really been wanting to learn about this sect of Islam. Particularly because it's dubbed, "mysticism". Never understood, or liked, the fact that a lot of Sunnis shit on the Sufis because of what they practice.

I just left a site that breaks it down. All of these empowerments either require, dhikr, fasting, the recitation of a verse or surah from The Qur'an, or all 3.

I think it's the same case of the Christians wanting to forget about The Key of Solomon.

Ill thread though son.

Keep on keepin' on.

Peace

diggy
08-25-2008, 09:48 PM
All of these empowerments either require, dhikr, fasting, the recitation of a verse or surah from The Qur'an, or all 3.
After doing all 3, how is one empowered?

Why get empowered in the first place?

SID
08-26-2008, 04:13 AM
"That is to say, with continuous, selfless remembrance, a Divine Attribute comes to predominate in the sufi's being."

And what is the purpose of getting a divine attribute?

Can u do superhuman things like save the world from destruction?

Or... what?

Your misunderstanding diggy, it dosent mean you will be gifted with supernatural divine powers through contiuous self rememberance, but that an aspect/attribute of the divine will be attached to you.

For example Mercy..you could be such a forgiving and merciful human that the atrribute of divine mercy (mercy in its most un-judgemental and perfect form) would be awarded to you, which makes the person feel closer to god, seen as he has reached the zenith of that particular divine attribute.

Damn.

Sallam kid.

This is insane.

Lately I've really been wanting to learn about this sect of Islam. Particularly because it's dubbed, "mysticism". Never understood, or liked, the fact that a lot of Sunnis shit on the Sufis because of what they practice.

I just left a site that breaks it down. All of these empowerments either require, dhikr, fasting, the recitation of a verse or surah from The Qur'an, or all 3.

I think it's the same case of the Christians wanting to forget about The Key of Solomon.

Ill thread though son.

Keep on keepin' on.

Peace

Cool, one thing though urban - its not a sect of islam, sufis and shia have sufi mystics, it is just another aspect of islam..the mystical dimension of islam..just like how every religion has its mystical side.

diggy
08-26-2008, 10:44 PM
Your misunderstanding diggy, it dosent mean you will be gifted with supernatural divine powers ... but that an aspect/attribute of the divine will be attached to you.

For example Mercy..you could be such a forgiving and merciful human that the atrribute of divine mercy... would be awarded to you, which makes the person feel closer to god, seen as he has reached the zenith of that particular divine attribute.



AL-IKHLAS (SINCERITY)

Surah 112

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.


Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

And there is none like unto Him.




Well according to the verse above, there is none like him which means no one can share his attribute. Sufis might be doing this to get his attribute, but it is only self-deception.

STYLE
08-27-2008, 01:46 AM
but are we not like Him? are we not made i His image?

My mother in law practices Sufism among other things.


Eagle- yeah Khemet is the source to many things. Things either started there or made a significant leap while passing thru.

diggy
08-27-2008, 02:10 AM
but are we not like Him? are we not made i His image?

My mother in law practices Sufism among other things.


Eagle- yeah Khemet is the source to many things. Things either started there or made a significant leap while passing thru.





I see where u are coming from. In the bible is says we are made in his image, but the above verse I've posted does not agree. Being made in his image - does this mean I look like God or is God a man, etc.? This "made in his image" statement is open to many interpretations.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not bashing Sufism. They have some practices, techniques, and perspective which are healthy and can help people.

STYLE
08-27-2008, 02:17 AM
if God is the source of all things we MUST be made of the same "stuff".
how can God create something that is not infused with His nature?

diggy
08-27-2008, 02:21 AM
This is something I have been thinking of for a while, tho not the same question, but something close.

It says something like God blew his breath (or essence) into man. What is that breath/essence? That is what I would like to know.

diggy
08-27-2008, 02:23 AM
:king:.

STYLE
08-27-2008, 03:23 AM
the way i visualize this whole ball of wax is like this.....

an oak tree comes from a single acorn.

that acorn holds all the information that makes a tree. from root system to the bark to the fiber to the leaves to the sap to the chlorophyll. everything that is the tree, is in that single nut.

somewhere in the ether there is a blueprint for the perfect oaktree that the acorn aspires to become but due to environment and other influences, it grows into the best tree that it can be.

but that "ghost tree" is the essence of that tree.

call it DNA if you will but what is dna? its nothing but a formation of molecules.
what are molecules? a formation of atoms.
what are atoms? energy vibrations.
what is energy? ahhhhh.... now we are getting down to the nitty gritty.
we do know that energy cannot be created or destroyed. it has always been.

everything that you call reality is nothing but a complex muisical note.

but that note is being played by something. something is willing that note to be maintained. just like something is willing that acorn to become a tree.

this will is the essence of God.


i feel like i am rambling but it makes much more sense in my mind.

i had a deep revelation a few weeks back about the function of dna and the timeline of life itself. basically, dna is the tool that the lifeforce uses to manifest itself into reality.
just like the acorn has a "ghost tree", life itself has a "ghost being" that it strives to become. the magnitude of force behind life is so great that it will take whatever it can get in terms of lifeforms. but everything is pushing in the same direction.

just some thoughts on the subject.

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-27-2008, 03:33 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

This is something I have been thinking of for a while, tho not the same question, but something close.

It says something like God blew his breath (or essence) into man. What is that breath/essence? That is what I would like to know.

Man is the vehicle through which God can realise the fulness of its true Self in the "Objective World". The essense of God is consciousness which is one. Unable to be limited or defined.


Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

And there is none like unto Him.


Allah is the One and Only! Allah is all that exists because Allah exists as All. Which means your essence is, your true self, is God. The image that you are created in is the Divine attributes that your share with God, same in quality, just not in quantity. When one lives in accordance with Laws of God (Maat) these Divine Attributes are unlocked.

SHEM HETEP

SID
08-27-2008, 03:38 AM
AL-IKHLAS (SINCERITY)

Surah 112

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.


Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

And there is none like unto Him.




Well according to the verse above, there is none like him which means no one can share his attribute. Sufis might be doing this to get his attribute, but it is only self-deception.

It is not saying we are like god in the slightest, only that through continous selfless rememberance, meditation and recitation will you reach the zenith of a particular quality...which is what allah is described as..being perfect in everyway..so if one person has reached perfection in sufism, he feels closer to god..since he has attained perfection in at least one quality like his master allah.

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-27-2008, 03:38 AM
everything that you call reality is nothing but a complex muisical note.

but that note is being played by something. something is willing that note to be maintained. just like something is willing that acorn to become a tree.

this will is the essence of God.


^
That's all Peace Style. Beautiful! 9:|6

SHEM HETEP

diggy
08-27-2008, 04:14 AM
It is not saying we are like god in the slightest, only that through continous selfless rememberance, meditation and recitation will you reach the zenith of a particular quality...which is what allah is described as..being perfect in everyway..so if one person has reached perfection in sufism, he feels closer to god..since he has attained perfection in at least one quality like his master allah.

Understood.

diggy
08-27-2008, 04:24 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...



The image that you are created in is the Divine attributes that your share with God, same in quality, just not in quantity.

SHEM HETEP

Yes, that is why God is the Most Merciful.

diggy
08-27-2008, 04:28 AM
everything that you call reality is nothing but a complex muisical note.

but that note is being played by something. something is willing that note to be maintained. just like something is willing that acorn to become a tree.

this will is the essence of God.


The cosmic laws?


basically, dna is the tool that the lifeforce uses to manifest itself into reality.




Maybe dna could be a key to understanding God.

SID
08-27-2008, 01:12 PM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...



Man is the vehicle through which God can realise the fulness of its true Self in the "Objective World". The essense of God is consciousness which is one. Unable to be limited or defined.



Allah is the One and Only! Allah is all that exists because Allah exists as All. Which means your essence is, your true self, is God. The image that you are created in is the Divine attributes that your share with God, same in quality, just not in quantity. When one lives in accordance with Laws of God (Maat) these Divine Attributes are unlocked.

SHEM HETEP

WORD!

Fatal Guillotine
08-27-2008, 09:29 PM
are their any good books on this subject?

Cee Oh Vee
09-02-2008, 03:08 AM
Glory be to Allah, I was just waiting until somebody posted something about sufism.

What are my thoughts on sufism?

I ask Allah to make me amongst the sufis and purify my self. Amin.

Only in the past year really have I started to learn about tasawwuf (sufism) and in doing so I have felt my life has become more 'whole'; if you like.

I follow the Darqawi tariqa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darqawiyya) (way / path / order) and my shaykh of instruction is Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdalqadir_as-Sufi).

In the time of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) tasawwuf was a reality without a name. It is important to understand that tasawwuf (sufism) is inseparable from fiqh / the Shari`a / Islam.

with peace.

ps. there are many great books on sufism, I recommend reading some of the earlier texts on tasawwuf rather than later ones. The Darqawi Way by Shaykh ad-Darqawi is a thrilling book, it may be hard to get hold of though.

Cee Oh Vee
09-02-2008, 08:06 AM
"That is to say, with continuous, selfless remembrance, a Divine Attribute comes to predominate in the sufi's being."

And what is the purpose of getting a divine attribute?

Can u do superhuman things like save the world from destruction?

Or... what?

To put it simply; here is an example:

Ar-Rahim is one of the 99 Attributes/names of Allah, it means The Most Merciful.

So mercy would be a 'borrowed' attribute.

Allah is THE Most Merciful, but a man can be merciful; so 'getting a divine attribute' would be being merciful.

I am obviously no scholar nor do I have the knowledge to elaborate on that much more; but that's what I understand of it.


Lately I've really been wanting to learn about this sect of Islam. Particularly because it's dubbed, "mysticism". Never understood, or liked, the fact that a lot of Sunnis shit on the Sufis because of what they practice.

May Allah guide you towards tasawwuf and grant you a sound understanding of it. Amin.

One thing I'd just like to say though; sufism isn't a 'sect'. As I said before - tasawwuf was a reality without a name in the Rasul's time.

There is no power and no strength but through Allah, the High, the Great.

with peace.

Golden_Armz
09-03-2008, 06:41 AM
Peace...

Sidious, the only way to find out about 'Sufism,' is to speak with Sufi's themselves, not people 'reading books.'

Im not a member of any Tariqat, but attend weekly Zikrs, in North and NW London.

If you want give me a shout and ill tell you where its at.

"Sufism" in Islam is "Tassawuf"

The third science of Islam after Fiqh (Jurisprudence, laws etc.) and Aqeedah (creed, belief system) is Spirituality (Tassawuf).

Its about cleaning your heart and becoming closer to God.

Most people are interested in it because it sounds cool, but it is an advanced system that requires you to practice the basics first.

One of the great scholars of Islam...Imam Malik said that one who practices Tassawuf(Sufism) without knowledge of Sacred Law (Shariah) will corrupt his faith and become a heretic.

And one who practices Sacred Law and doesnt practice (Sufism) will corrupt himself.

So we should be on Sirat al Mustaqeem...

the straight and middle way...

most people will talk bout sufism as if they practice it, and most wont even know the basics of Allah's Way.

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1293812#post1293812)
Lately I've really been wanting to learn about this sect of Islam. Particularly because it's dubbed, "mysticism". Never understood, or liked, the fact that a lot of Sunnis shit on the Sufis because of what they practice.


Sunnis dont 'sh-t' on Sufis, because Sufis ARE Sunnis...they just practice Spirituality which is part of their deen anyways....

The people you see 'sh-tting' on Sufis are some Wahabbi or Salafi people...

and tbh some 'Sufis' have bought in on themselves, cos some go astray...

there are also alot of 'fakes' around so gotta be careful...

And ALLAH KNOWS BEST...

PEACE

Cee Oh Vee
09-03-2008, 07:36 AM
Peace...

Sidious, the only way to find out about 'Sufism,' is to speak with Sufi's themselves, not people 'reading books.'

Im not a member of any Tariqat, but attend weekly Zikrs, in North and NW London.

If you want give me a shout and ill tell you where its at.

"Sufism" in Islam is "Tassawuf"

The third science of Islam after Fiqh (Jurisprudence, laws etc.) and Aqeedah (creed, belief system) is Spirituality (Tassawuf).

Its about cleaning your heart and becoming closer to God.

Most people are interested in it because it sounds cool, but it is an advanced system that requires you to practice the basics first.

One of the great scholars of Islam...Imam Malik said that one who practices Tassawuf(Sufism) without knowledge of Sacred Law (Shariah) will corrupt his faith and become a heretic.

And one who practices Sacred Law and doesnt practice (Sufism) will corrupt himself.

So we should be on Sirat al Mustaqeem...

the straight and middle way...

most people will talk bout sufism as if they practice it, and most wont even know the basics of Allah's Way.



Sunnis dont 'sh-t' on Sufis, because Sufis ARE Sunnis...they just practice Spirituality which is part of their deen anyways....

The people you see 'sh-tting' on Sufis are some Wahabbi or Salafi people...

and tbh some 'Sufis' have bought in on themselves, cos some go astray...

there are also alot of 'fakes' around so gotta be careful...

And ALLAH KNOWS BEST...

PEACE

Alhamdulillah, good post. But about sufis being sunni.. this isn't entirely correct - there are many shia sufis.

And yeah there are a lot of fakes around. Beware of Universal Sufism and Sufism Reoriented and such groups. They are just groups of Orientalist hippies obsessed with Mawlana Rumi ignorant to the fact he was Muslim as this would go against their pantheist beliefs.

Also many people to do with the Naqshbandi tariqa, especially the Nazimites (murids of sheikh Nazim) are pretty crazy.. some of those guys kiss his feet and prostrate to him and shit..

with peace.

Golden_Armz
09-03-2008, 09:10 AM
walaikoum salaam

for a 14 year old, you have a good understanding mashallah, keep studying...

Alhamdulillah, good post. But about sufis being sunni.. this isn't entirely correct - there are many shia sufis.

This is true...

I was more implying that Sufism is spirituality, attributed to the word 'Tassawuf', but it is a crucial element of the Islamic way of life and is part of the Ahlul Sunnah practices. Most Sufis in their Shariah practice are Sunni or Shia, but what is Shia originally? It's ahlul sunnah, because the original Ahlul Bayt were following the Prophet (saws).

Tassawuf is not seperate from Islam in it's origins, but as some people pointed out there have been spiritual people from all religions and from all cultures since the begininning of time, and this can be classed as Sufi too...however from a different perspective many sufis were mystics of others faiths which foretold the coming of Muhammad and when the signs were shown followed him. This was true for many Buddhists in what is now modern day Afghanistan.


And yeah there are a lot of fakes around. Beware of Universal Sufism and Sufism Reoriented and such groups. They are just groups of Orientalist hippies obsessed with Mawlana Rumi ignorant to the fact he was Muslim as this would go against their pantheist beliefs.

lol...yeah this always makes me laugh..

you see these videos of some hill billy on a guitar instructing people to dance in a circle and chant "Allah-Hu Allah-Hu"...

lol..not really funny but...may Allah guide them and guide us!



Also many people to do with the Naqshbandi tariqa, especially the Nazimites (murids of sheikh Nazim) are pretty crazy.. some of those guys kiss his feet and prostrate to him and shit..

I go to the Naqshbandi Dergah in North London every now and then, and usually have a great experience there...

Theres nothing that really makes me think otherwise...

I'd refrain from using terms like Nazimites...seriously....

its creating division...yes some of the students go a bit over the top...but the teachings are seperate from those who claim to practice!!

Ive never heard Sheikh Nazim tell his followers to do that!

and most of the people from the Order ive met wouldnt agree with that behaviour!



U from Birmingham..?

I remember that Channel 4 documentary..."The Retreat", one Asian brother at the school, said he used to lead zikr in Birmingham or was it Manchester?


with peace.[/QUOTE]

salaams

Cee Oh Vee
09-03-2008, 11:00 AM
I go to the Naqshbandi Dergah in North London every now and then, and usually have a great experience there...

Theres nothing that really makes me think otherwise...

I'd refrain from using terms like Nazimites...seriously....

its creating division...yes some of the students go a bit over the top...but the teachings are seperate from those who claim to practice!!

Ive never heard Sheikh Nazim tell his followers to do that!

and most of the people from the Order ive met wouldnt agree with that behaviour!

U from Birmingham..?

I remember that Channel 4 documentary..."The Retreat", one Asian brother at the school, said he used to lead zikr in Birmingham or was it Manchester?

salaams

As salamu alaykum

Yeah I doubt Sheikh Nazim tells his followers to do such things but theres a video on youtube of one of their so called "dhikrs". They weren't doing any dhikr! It makes me laugh. They were all in a circle - the same way as when doing a hadra - and they were all chanting something, and there was a man in the middle of the circle doing the worm and breakdancing and they were all cheering him on like it was some sort of performance. This is not sufism. Tasawwuf is about 'killing' the nafs (self) and being annihilated in Allah. What this man was doing was purely nafs! They were turning a night of dhikr into a joke. And to top it all off at the end.. he went and prostrated in front of Sheikh Nazim and kissed his feet.. I appreciate the shaykh may not have asked him to do it; nonetheless he sat there and let him.

I have nothing against the Naqshbandi way but when the Sheikh entertains this sort of behaviour from his murids it just puts me off.

And yeah I saw that documentary; and its quite funny.. haha.. that time when it came on TV - I was a Salafi. I remember being like 'OMG look at this bid`a!'. Astaghfirullah, I had no idea but, all praise due to Allah, Allah put me in the company of men of Allah..

for a 14 year old, you have a good understanding mashallah, keep studying...

Thank you sidi, glory be to Allah, a few people have said that recently and they mentioned me doing my first hadra a few months back. The guideline age for our tariqa (for attending nights of dhikr) is 17, but the amir gave me permission to go, and I've done 4 since.

with peace.

Urban_Journalz
09-05-2008, 11:33 PM
Al-Humdulillah Hirabil Aylameen.

Shukron to Quest and CeeDot for the enlightening responds.

Ramadan Mubarak y'all.

Peace

Cee Oh Vee
09-08-2008, 10:00 AM
Alhamdulillah. Ramadan Karim.

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 10:06 AM
Islam is indeed the best of all religions

however, all religions will be sat down in this last day by the Messiah
and those who will usher in a New way for a New day


Sufism is Great
so is Taoism

Urban_Journalz
09-08-2008, 07:01 PM
Islam is indeed the best of all religions

however, all religions will be sat down in this last day by the Messiah
and those who will usher in a New way for a New day


Sufism is Great
so is Taoism

Islam is submission to the Will of God.

A Muslim is one who submits to the Will of God.

Therefore, Islam has always been the only religion worthy of acceptence to God and that would make all of the Prophets and Messengers Muslims.

This is the way of Creation itself. All in creation does what it is ordered to do. Willingly, or unwillingly. Those who choose to be unwilling, suffer. Just as the child who doesn't listen to the parent's orders gets his or her ass whipped.

Therefore, when The Messiah (pbuh) does return, he will rule with The Qur'an, and break the cross. After he passes, then the trumpet will be blown and the New Earth and Heavens will be re-created based on the promise that God gave to the righteous for following The Truth.

The Truth never changes. Which is why we see similarities between The Torah, The Gospel, The Proverbs, The Psalms, The Book of Enoch (pbuh), The Tao Te Ching, The Bushido and so forth. If someone is truely in search of The Truth, and not studying simply to be seen as a learned man or woman in the eyes of men for temporary and ultimately wordly gains, he or she will feel, FEEL The Truth when it is recited to them and act accordingly.

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 07:10 PM
Islam is submission to the Will of God.

A Muslim is one who submits to the Will of God.

Therefore, Islam has always been the only religion worthy of acceptence to God and that would make all of the Prophets and Messengers Muslims.

This is the way of Creation itself. All in creation does what it is ordered to do. Willingly, or unwillingly. Those who choose to be unwilling, suffer. Just as the child who doesn't listen to the parent's orders gets his or her ass whipped.

Therefore, when The Messiah (pbuh) does return, he will rule with The Qur'an, and break the cross. After he passes, then the trumpet will be blown and the New Earth and Heavens will be re-created based on the promise that God gave to the righteous for following The Truth.

The Truth never changes. Which is why we see similarities between The Torah, The Gospel, The Proverbs, The Psalms, The Book of Enoch (pbuh), The Tao Te Ching, The Bushido and so forth. If someone is truely in search of The Truth, and not studying simply to be seen as a learned man or woman in the eyes of men for temporary and ultimately wordly gains, he or she will feel, FEEL The Truth when it is recited to them and act accordingly.

Islam as a religion will also be sat down - because in the religion of islam are old traditions that really have nothing to do with Submission to Allah and there are beliefs in the old traditional Islamic religion that does not allow for its followers to truly know or understand what Allah truly is

True Islam is not a religion but a way of life Therefore Islam will always exist

the religion of Islam is the best because its fresh and new compared to the top popular major religions - Muslims are closer to understanding true Islam

Urban_Journalz
09-08-2008, 07:28 PM
It's the true religion of Islam that I'm talking about. Therefore, what I said still stands. You're talking about the additions that have been made and divided up among the sects. Another part of The Qur'an is, "Divide not yourselves into sects, as those before you did."

I'm one of the very few true Muslims that doesn't even put the title "Sunni" before "Muslim", because Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) called himself, as Abraham (pbuh) named us, "Muslim".
So, there isn't much you can tell me. Also, Islam is a way of life, not a religion.

LORD NOSE
09-08-2008, 07:45 PM
It's the true religion of Islam that I'm talking about. Therefore, what I said still stands. You're talking about the additions that have been made and divided up among the sects. Another part of The Qur'an is, "Divide not yourselves into sects, as those before you did."

ok

I'm one of the very few true Muslims that doesn't even put the title "Sunni" before "Muslim", because Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) called himself, as Abraham (pbuh) named us, "Muslim".
So, there isn't much you can tell me.

ahight

Also, Islam is a way of life, not a religion.


lol - thats what i said

Urban_Journalz
09-08-2008, 08:04 PM
You also said, "Islam as a religion", which really made no distinction between the two words because some of the truest Muslims in the world still call it a religion.

Whatever. I won't get hung up on something this little.

Bump.

LORD NOSE
09-09-2008, 08:15 AM
You also said, "Islam as a religion", which really made no distinction between the two words because some of the truest Muslims in the world still call it a religion.




hopefully one day soon they'll understand and be strong enough to leave the old traditional dinosaur nonsense and come to the true and new

WARPATH
09-09-2008, 11:17 AM
All religions were new at one time. Claimng one is better then the other is pointless.

The world is to large for "God" to come to everyone through Jesus, or Elijah, or a Cow, or Yacub or what ever you believe in. Each persons cultrural paradigm will have produced somthing different. It these difference that make each culture unique. If we were all the 5%, we'd be the %100. If we were all Jews we'd have to many bagel stores, and if we were all christians the church wouldn't make a profit.

It would've been better if people had shared what they know about when the met up instead of fighting and justifying it with their own personal relationship with God.

The same things have been happening for thousands of years. It's happening on this board now. Who are we trying convert? What are you trying to prove?

LORD NOSE
09-09-2008, 07:00 PM
All religions were new at one time. Claimng one is better then the other is pointless.

The world is to large for "God" to come to everyone through Jesus, or Elijah, or a Cow, or Yacub or what ever you believe in. Each persons cultrural paradigm will have produced somthing different. It these difference that make each culture unique. If we were all the 5%, we'd be the %100. If we were all Jews we'd have to many bagel stores, and if we were all christians the church wouldn't make a profit.

It would've been better if people had shared what they know about when the met up instead of fighting and justifying it with their own personal relationship with God.

The same things have been happening for thousands of years. It's happening on this board now. Who are we trying convert? What are you trying to prove?

good stuff - people fighting and sometimes killing each other over what they BELIEVE is the one true path to eternal life in heaven with god is a childish stage man has to go through - 3rd or 4th density - those in the 5th 6th or 7th may realize that this way is childish - but they are outnumbered and sometimes smothered by those who have not yet got to the point of understanding it is childish

Fatal Guillotine
09-09-2008, 07:11 PM
people do not realize that the holy quran reveals all religions and islam is not a religion. thats a simple misconception or title that non-muslims have given it for the years.

Urban_Journalz
09-09-2008, 07:24 PM
people do not realize that the holy quran reveals all religions and islam is not a religion. thats a simple misconception are title that non-muslims have given it for the years.

:mmmyah:

LORD NOSE
09-09-2008, 07:28 PM
majority of those who call themselves muslims practice the religion of Islam and not True Islam which is not a religion

Fatal Guillotine
09-09-2008, 08:19 PM
True indeed and the media doesnt help one bit. It shows muslims bombing places. They paint this picture and non muslims believe it

Fatal Guillotine
09-09-2008, 08:45 PM
I think once people know what islam is and know that it is a way of life and not a religion their a understanding.

Fatal Guillotine
09-09-2008, 08:48 PM
The are some facts as far as Taoism and Buddhism goes. But NO religion is like Islam.

diggy
09-09-2008, 09:34 PM
True indeed and the media doesnt help one bit. It shows muslims bombing places. They paint this picture and non muslims believe it

Tru. And this is the fault of some "muslims". They claim to be muslim, then commit an act of major kufr - and this is fodder for the news media muslim-haters.

Can a negative label/rumour stick if it is not at least partialy tru?

Golden_Armz
09-10-2008, 03:30 AM
I hate to butt in on a good convo...

but this thread is about Sufi Mysticism not general chat on Islam and Muslims...

cant ya'll open a new thread entitled 'misconceptions' or something...

peace

LORD NOSE
09-10-2008, 12:03 PM
The are some facts as far as Taoism and Buddhism goes. But NO religion is like Islam.

True Taoism and Buddhism is Islam

Fatal Guillotine
09-10-2008, 02:04 PM
^^^^^
THATS A Fact. thats exactly why i said no religion is like islam because islam as well as the holy qu'ran reveals christianity, judaism, etc. taoism and buddhism takes some aspects from islam.

Fatal Guillotine
09-10-2008, 02:23 PM
The Sufi movement has spanned several continents over a millennium, at first expressed through Arabic, then through Persian, Turkish, and a dozen other languages. Sufi orders, most of which are Sunni in doctrine, trace their origins from the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, through his cousin Ali or his father-in-law Abu Bakr.

The devotional practices of Sufis vary widely. This is because an acknowledged and authorized master of the Sufi path is in effect a physician of the heart, able to diagnose the seeker's impediments to knowledge and pure intention in serving God, and to prescribe to the seeker a course of treatment appropriate to his or her maladies. The consensus among Sufi scholars is that the seeker cannot self-diagnose, and that it can be extremely harmful to undertake any of these practices alone and without formal authorization.

Prerequisites to practice include rigorous adherence to Islamic norms (ritual prayer in its five prescribed times each day, the fast of Ramadan, and so forth). Additionally, the seeker ought to be firmly grounded in supererogatory practices known from the life of the Prophet Muhammad (such as the so-called "sunna prayers"). This is in accordance with the words, attributed to God, of the following, a famous Hadith Qudsi:

My servant draws near to Me through nothing I love more than that which I have made obligatory for him. My servant never ceases drawing near to Me through supererogatory works until I love him. Then, when I love him, I am his hearing through which he hears, his sight through which he sees, his hand through which he grasps, and his foot through which he walks.

It is also necessary for the seeker to have a correct creed (Aqidah) , and to embrace with certainty its tenets . The seeker must also, of necessity, turn away from sins, love of this world, the love of company and renown, obedience to satanic impulse, and the promptings of the lower self. (The way in which this purification of the heart is achieved is outlined in certain books, but must be prescribed in detail by a Sufi master.) The seeker must also be trained to prevent the corruption of those good deeds which have accrued to his or her credit by overcoming the traps of ostentation, pride, arrogance, envy, and long hopes (meaning the hope for a long life allowing us to mend our ways later, rather than immediately, here and now).

Sufi practices, while attractive to some, are not a means for gaining knowledge. The traditional scholars of Sufism hold it as absolutely axiomatic that knowledge of God is not a psychological state generated through breath control. Thus, practice of "techniques" is not the cause, but instead the occasion for such knowledge to be obtained (if at all), given proper prerequisites and proper guidance by a master of the way. Furthermore, the emphasis on practices may obscure a far more important fact: The seeker is, in a sense, to become a broken person, stripped of all habits through the practice of (in the words of Imam Al-Ghazali words) solitude, silence, sleeplessness, and hunger.


Dhikr is the remembrance of God commanded in the Qur'an for all Muslims. To engage in dhikr is to practice consciousness of the Divine Presence (some would say "to seek a state of godwariness") according to a variety of means. Some types of dhikr are prescribed for all Muslims, and do not require Sufi initiation or the prescription of a Sufi master because they are deemed to be good for every seeker under every circumstance. Other types of dhikr require specific instruction and permission.

Dhikr as a devotional act includes the repetition of divine names, supplications and aphorisms from hadith literature, and sections of the Qur'an. More generally, any activity in which the Muslim maintains awareness of God is considered dhikr.

Some Sufi orders stress and extensive reliance upon Dhikr and termed it the source to attain Divine Love likewise in Qadri Al-Muntahi Sufi tariqa, which was originated by Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi. This practice of Dhikr called Dhikr-e-Qulb(remembrance of Allah by Heartbeats). The basic idea of this practice is to visualize the Arabic name of God, Allah as having been written on the disciple's heart.

Muraqaba

The practice of muraqaba can be likened to the practices of meditation attested in many faith communities. The word muraqaba is derived from the same root occurring as one of the 99 Names of God in the Qur'an, al-Raqb, meaning "the Vigilant" and attested in verse 4: 1 of the Qur'an. Through muraqaba, a person watches over or takes care of the spiritual heart, acquires knowledge about it, and becomes attuned to the Divine Presence, which is ever vigilant.

While variation exists, one description of the practice within a Naqshbandi lineage reads as follows:

He is to collect all of his bodily senses in concentration, and to cut himself off from all preoccupation and notions that inflict themselves upon the heart. And thus he is to turn his full consciousness towards God Most High while saying three times: Ilah anta maqsd wa-ridka matlb my God, you are my Goal and Your good pleasure is what I seek. Then he brings to his heart the Name of the Essence Allh and as it courses through his heart he remains attentive to its meaning, which is Essence without likeness. The seeker remains aware that He is Present, Watchful, Encompassing of all, thereby exemplifying the meaning of his saying (may God bless him and grant him peace): Worship God as though you see Him, for if you do not see Him, He sees you. And likewise the prophetic tradition: The most favored level of faith is to know that God is witness over you, wherever you may be.



An Introduction to Sufi Doctrine, Laws of the Heart: A Practical Introduction to the Sufi Path, and The Soul of Islam: Essential Doctrines and Beliefs are great books.

diggy
10-20-2008, 07:54 PM
Your misunderstanding diggy, it dosent mean you will be gifted with supernatural divine powers through contiuous self rememberance, but that an aspect/attribute of the divine will be attached to you.

For example Mercy..you could be such a forgiving and merciful human that the atrribute of divine mercy (mercy in its most un-judgemental and perfect form) would be awarded to you, which makes the person feel closer to god, seen as he has reached the zenith of that particular divine attribute.

To put it simply; here is an example:

Ar-Rahim is one of the 99 Attributes/names of Allah, it means The Most Merciful.

So mercy would be a 'borrowed' attribute.

Allah is THE Most Merciful, but a man can be merciful; so 'getting a divine attribute' would be being merciful.


Aspecting: Any advance magic activity where the practioner manifests a particular aspect of a goddess or god (whether in speech, appearanve, behaviour or thought) is known as aspecting.

Cee Oh Vee
10-21-2008, 01:49 AM
I don't see how it would be 'advance magic' tbh.

But what is your point, sir?

peace

Cee Oh Vee
01-24-2009, 06:57 AM
There is an amazing book available entitled 'Sufism and Taoism".

I have forgotten the name of the author, and I've only read a bit of it, but I do recommend it. There are many links (Sufism and Taoism)

peace

Prince Rai
01-24-2009, 11:45 AM
There is an amazing book available entitled 'Sufism and Taoism".

I have forgotten the name of the author, and I've only read a bit of it, but I do recommend it. There are many links (Sufism and Taoism)

peace

Sufism and Taoism: A Comparative Study of Key Philosophical Concepts
by Toshihiko Izutsu

there you go. peace and blessings.

this thread is 5 stars

Cee Oh Vee
01-24-2009, 01:24 PM
Yeah, man. Let's get this thing going again, it was getting interesting.

Prince Rai, speak on it!

Cee Oh Vee
06-29-2009, 12:28 AM
I hope x-unknown doesn't mind me posting this.

What is the purpose of being in a sufi order?

What do you hope to achieve from the dhikr (repeating the name of Allah)?

Do you see any difference in yourself after practicing in a sufi order?

The purpose of being in a Sufi Order is to practice Sufism and to one day, God-willing, become a Sufi.

The general consensus is that you cannot practice Sufism unless you are in a tariqa (Sufi Order or Path).


Dhikr is something all muslims should do. At the stage I'm at, I only perform the adhkar (plural form of dhikr) of my tariqa for the sake of Remembrance of Allah.

However, dhikr has many benefits.


Yes, there is certainly a difference in my self having become part of a tariqa. I definitely feel closer to my Lord, to say the least.

We have a Night of Dhikr once a month, or so, which is a group gathering of all the members of the Path.

It consists of recitation of Qur`an, the wird, which is a compilation of supplications and dhikr as prescribed by my Shaykh's Shaykh; Muhammad ibn al-Habib of North Africa. May Allah have mercy on Him and pour His Light into his grave.

After this, we sing from Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib's Diwan, which is a book of songs. Do not be fooled by my vague description. If you are not amazed by what you read in that book, you are not human - I am serious.

The dhikr then reaches its climax by doing the hadra. Now, the hadra is very intense and is very complex, in terms of its purpose. I shall attach a video at the bottom of this post as an example.

Then, a Sufi of our tariqa will deliver a short talk about whatever is relevant to us in this time.


I hope I gave you what you were looking for with that.

Hadra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjpMFCpRmBw&feature=PlayList&p=F23AC8F75EBE893C&index=0&playnext=1



Peace.

diggy
06-29-2009, 12:50 AM
I hope x-unknown doesn't mind me posting this.



Peace.


I don't mind.

Peace.

Cee Oh Vee
06-29-2009, 02:11 AM
Thanks man.

Peace and bless.