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TSA
09-19-2008, 01:12 PM
I've heard a lot of good and relevant opinions on the subject that stand on both sides.

are you in support of the government bailingout AIG?

the best arguement i heard for the gove bailing them out is that the economy is a self correcting jungle of sorts. If AIG was using shitty business practices, with shitty people for greedy and poorlyu thought out reasons that the natural correcting hand of the economy should not be stopped when that hand tries to destroy it as a business. If AIG fucks up cause they're fuck ups then why keep a fuck up around to keep fucking shit up?

and should the government bailout all failing business that have reached and irresponsibly jurassic size in influential?

Its like taking retarded blind cheetahs out of the wilderness and nuturing them. When they're starving, then throwing them back in the wild. It's not built to survive and therefore wont, you can temporarly milk bottle it up but once back in the wild nature will put it in it's place.

or are you gonna keep feeding the son of a bitch cheetah when it gets hungry?

i think theres less retarded blind cheetas per captia then retarded blind humans cause we nurture eachother dispite not being meant to live and survive(sorry to say) and therefore can spread the retarded blindness gene and have our inheriter survive, where as a retarded blind cheetah dies quick and naturally enough not to spread the gene.

but this isn't my final opinion on the issue, im a believe in fre captialism but not in a douchy unnegotiable way where i think free markets cure everything cause they don't and have proven they don't.

so yeah, gov, bailouts, thoughts?

SL33
09-19-2008, 01:17 PM
are you in support of the government bailingout AIG?




not that i care much, but government intervention is an ordinary thing today.

and personaly i don't think that actual financial crisis can grow to 1930's proportion.

good thread

Visionz
09-19-2008, 01:18 PM
Read http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63484

I'm just saying: If you go bankrupt, will the feds come bail YOU out?



****this post wasn't made by me, but a co-worker (and brother)

Unseen does not approve this message

TSA
09-19-2008, 01:25 PM
but YOUR not important.
YOUR financial well being isn't the backbone of billions of ppls financial well beings,
if the government didn't bail out AIG then YOU would go bankrupt.
on top that the government actually does bail ppl out when they're bankrupt
(food stamps, well fair, public housing ect.)

SL33
09-19-2008, 01:39 PM
chapter 11......

chef boi r c
09-19-2008, 01:50 PM
but YOUR not important.
YOUR financial well being isn't the backbone of billions of ppls financial well beings,
if the government didn't bail out AIG then YOU would go bankrupt.
on top that the government actually does bail ppl out when they're bankrupt
(food stamps, well fair, public housing ect.)

Glad you mentioned that. Let me know what you think after you watch these videos:

IgszRE5wYNg
Video added back in February 16, 2008

Basically, if you did not see this comming: you have not been keeping attention.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=RonPaul2008dotcom

Watch and learn

TSA
09-19-2008, 02:24 PM
Ron Paul is a brilliant son of a bitch, farrrrr ahead of his time.
I think adopting the Keynsian model of economics in the pre WWII is like crack cocaine for a government. It works, it has proven it works, but its a downwards spiral that leads to more and more borrowing, more and more intervention until everything collapses on on it's self cause a government can never 'have it right'

economics has been proven to be something you can never 'have right' and all economists have had a complex where they try and inforce thier notion of what 'right' is for whatever reason, logic, science, perspective, whatever, on the rest of the people around them cause the answer to problems are 'in their head'

i read a book called the history of economic genius where it gave good explainations of every major economist even before adam smith made it a science and after
then it was, in the end, proven that they all had the same complex as dictators, and psychopaths when 'game theory' was introduced.


they're they only people that believe they're notion of what the world should be should be imposed on the rest of the world cause they, for whatever reason, are at a higher level of understanding and therefore can solve the problems of humanity from equations they, and only they, have in their head, that why they view themselves as special, they are the sole propritor of salvation for mankind.

game theory broke down human action mathematically and rationally, it all made perfect sense and was hard to disprove, just like economics, but then people don't act rationally, only economists, psychopaths, and dictators do.

economics makes the assumption that everything works mathematically and was as a whole proven wrong. game theory accidentally proved itsself wrong by revealing logic is illogical

the reason im rambling is cause for the same reason i dont think the gov can bail anyone out. one persons lose is another persons gain, capitalism isn't a cure, it's an existance like water which kills as it destroys. So when they 'bail out' a company its in effect them trying to make the 'perfect economy' or 'make the economy work' when there's people still loosing cause of your idea and because of the idea of every single economist, psychopath, and dictator ever.

bailing out AIG is like feeding a retarded cheetah, your just fighting the inevitable by doing what you think is 'right', preserving the life of the cheetah, but in the end you really can't do shit about it cause 'right' is idealistic and a bling retarded cheetah eventually dying is nature.


AIG is supposed to die, so that improvements can be made and it's shitty genes (practices) can die with it. IF there's an economic blow thats fine, there's always gonna be one, and bailing them out will have it's equal blow as well cause the money has to come from somewhere and the art of business isn't 'making' money its relocating it.

only relocated in the hands of a retarded blind cheetah

TSA
09-19-2008, 02:26 PM
http://a519.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/101/l_f29812113de65886ab5620451c31d96e.jpg (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=83632667&albumID=2451090&imageID=36560259#a=2451090&i=36560262)

TSA
09-19-2008, 03:20 PM
AHAHAHAHahahAHah

Why the fuck do i always get compared to that faggot!?
that's been the bane of my existance, having that faggot brought up in the same light all the time LOL.

firewood_for_hell
09-19-2008, 08:20 PM
Your A Herb

But On Topic We The American Citizens And Taxpayers Will Have To Work More, Longer And Harder To Pay For These Fuck-ups Fuck-ups

Fuck The Government And Aig

And I Hate To Say I Told You So Bbut I Been Saying This Shit Was Going To Happen For 4 Years Now On This Website And Yet Im Still An Idiot Conspircay Theorist

TSA
09-19-2008, 08:35 PM
lol at this doofus acting like he predicted the future

faggot this type of thing happens once every 2 decades, it's called the free market fat ass.

if you would have had prior knowledge you would have finished highschool and specifically said "AIG and Lehman brothers will failed".

no go back to being unevolved you fuckin hethen

firewood_for_hell
09-19-2008, 08:47 PM
I Said All The Banks Are Going To Be Centralized THIS IS NOT A COINCIDENCE IT IS PLANNED

TSA
09-19-2008, 09:49 PM
nothing is being centralized whatsoever

what-so-ever


absolutely nothing, insurance firms failed, you literally have no clue what is happening in your world, its all a big game of heroes and villains where everything isn't 'what it seems' cause you dont even know what if seems like, let alone what it is.

your wasting intellect, im trying to make you a better person

firewood_for_hell
09-19-2008, 09:56 PM
As of this writing, the fate of Morgan Stanley (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MS)remains uncertain although continued independence seems unlikely. The investment bank is having merger talks with a variety of players (http://dayton.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2008/09/15/daily32.html?ana=yfcpc), including Wachovia and HSBC, while China's sovereign wealth fund is looking to raise its stake (http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ao0BD9Zuhy3E&refer=home) in the firm,

YOU FAIL TO SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE
im trying to make you a more ware and informed person

Giflord
09-19-2008, 10:07 PM
peace tsa u a smart dude.

Government bailouts and interventions are bullshit because im for free markets, bailouts create a moral hazard and encourage risky behavior because companies know the fed will just step in and help them.

with that said, this problem is of epic proportions. It really does have parallels to the great depression. money is freezing up right now, banks are unwilling to partake in overnight lending to each other, something like this has never really happened.

So in this case, bailouts are unfortunately needed because without them we would be fucked (severe recession or depression). One of the main faults of the fed in 1929 was they raised interest rates in a time when they should have relaxed them in order to encourage more borrowing and basically put more $$ into the system.

to sum it up, govt bailouts are bullshit but this time they need to do it. when u have an insurance company like AIG u have to make sure they can insure what they sold insurance on same with freddie and fannie. The fed is trying their best to preserve faith and trust in the US banks because once that is lost the country is father u cee kinged

GENERAL WISE
09-19-2008, 10:17 PM
It was the best course of action. Chump change in the global scope of things. $85 Billion right now will prevent a total market collapse and a prolonged recession.

Hopefully

btw I suggest investing in FRE and FNM now.

Giflord
09-19-2008, 10:21 PM
and for the record it was the greed of the white devil that got us into this mess to begin with

firewood_for_hell
09-19-2008, 10:58 PM
yea just another 85 million so now the taxpayers are only like 10 trillion in debt

no big deal

good thing we had the 100 + billion refund checks last year too

gilford and sunny...when are the niggers going to save the planet? wtf are you waiting for?

GENERAL WISE
09-19-2008, 11:17 PM
yea just another 85 million so now the taxpayers are only like 10 trillion in debt

no big deal

good thing we had the 100 + billion refund checks last year too

gilford and sunny...when are the niggers going to save the planet? wtf are you waiting for?

Ya dude, you're so against the system.

Mr. X
09-19-2008, 11:42 PM
The government sucks, I'm going back to my hemp made shirts and vegan frozen dinners.


On topic: Im with survival of the fittest mindset about business. Business itself is one huge gamble, there is no guarantees. The only reason I can why AIG was bailed out was because it was going to make a bad situation worse. If this happened in a better economic situation, they would have probably been bought out by a larger company or just went bankrupt.

TSA
09-20-2008, 01:14 AM
fire for hell or whatever, i think god is punishing you.

you no clue what us debt is and why the US is in debt but it's the reason you have internet dick.

we'l always have debt because our currency runs on credit and not gold.
you have no clue what i just said.

anyways, all KTL rejects should please go back there, this is a good discussion until tainted with white men this and i totally predicted that


you fags aren't 'against' the system, your not revolutionaries, your not different, and your not aware cause half of the termanology in this thread alone has gone completely over your head

you fags are just ppl that did go to college, and so now you try to use trivial information, information any 9 year old can pick up and master cause it's easy (race, religion, secert societies ect.) and keep spewing rhetoric about it as if you know something. How aware is a person by saying 'white people are greedy', no shit faggot they're human, and black ppl give their whole paycheck to charity?

your not aware, your not intelligent, your not unique, you pride yourself in a sense of intellect so that you will have an increased sense of self worth and value by 'being something'. the world you live in has rejected you and you have failed at it, so instead of pull yourself up and going for your G.E.D you completely denounce conventional wisdom the shield and fill you deeply scarred selfesteem. That's why when told somethign that completely proves you wrong you denounce it, cause that thrend of information your clinging to is the last strand of dignity you have left and it keeps you from the real world that scares and defeats you.


i just hung out with a hobo. gave an emotional speech about how he was a highschool drop out, then started babbling about illuminati. a hobo.
he also kept talking about how smart he was. he was just the blunt version of you guys. that illuminati bullshit was the last strand on dignity he had left



these are real life ppl talking about real life things that happen in real life that you can measure. no magic and reptiles and shit.
leave.

TSA
09-20-2008, 01:19 AM
i think the gov should start finding crafty ways of breaking up massive companies.

business is like people. When a country and super rich and super poor then things are less stable. When the economy goes down in goes way the fuck down, when it goes up it goes way the fuck up.

what they should do is start working on ways to creating 'middle class' businesses. Not little mom and pop ones and not super mega backbone of a country ones, just medium sized ones with sizeable individual strength

this will make the impact left painful when the economy goes down and less boomish when it goes up (irresponsibility in boom times is the reason for shit like we have now)

just in the middle, when countries are middle class they stablize more.

there will still be the small and the gaint, but they need to be incharge of no more then 15% of financial capital on each side.

Longbongcilvaringz
09-20-2008, 01:26 AM
As i said in another thread, it really depends what kind of economy the US wants to have.

They abandoned free market policy a long time ago.

But, theoretically, any inefficient players in the market should pay for their inefficiency.

Unfortunately, investment banking in the US in interconnected with many other forms of business.

So you get a situation of interdependency i guess.

So basically, the Gov. can't just sit back and do nothing, unless they decide to let the market self regulate. The problem with this is, its painful.

In the relative short term anyway.

The thing is though, the magnitude of this is huge.

$2 Trillion at least in bad debts.

Apparently the fund will absorb $800 Billion of this, which is huge in it self, but doesnt exactly solve the problem.

I guess it comes down to poor investment strategy.

Now as i said, theoretically this should be punished, but in practice this is far to painful for the economy.

So yeah, bailing companies out is ok in the short term, and no Gov. would attempt otherwise, because it's political suicide.

Longbongcilvaringz
09-20-2008, 01:29 AM
And i mean, the market is self regulating to an extent.

These companies are being acquired.

It's just hurtful for anyone involved in them.

TSA
09-20-2008, 01:29 AM
its not really interdependance that's the problem, it's over dependance on the few companys that hold the fate of the country in their hands off size alone.

break em up, break em up, break em up, break em

Longbongcilvaringz
09-20-2008, 01:34 AM
Ah, well not really, the whole economy breaks down if the investment banking sector loses confidence.

It's a snowball effect, with hesitance to lend money creating a worsened situation.

The size of corporations plays a role i guess... but it's more an issue of corporate policy.

EAGLE EYE
09-20-2008, 01:35 AM
break 'em off something...





keep going, Ive been reading all the posts that matter in this thread..


laugh my ass off at the Illuminati and hobo reference

Longbongcilvaringz
09-20-2008, 01:38 AM
Oh yeah, i kind of forgot the part about the crab people and reptiles and how this recession is planned to somehow keep 'the people' down etc.

You guys can fill in the blanks im sure.

wow, im soo funny.

EAGLE EYE
09-20-2008, 01:43 AM
After weighing the options. I've come to the decision we must blame everything on the reptile.

Longbongcilvaringz
09-20-2008, 01:46 AM
Blame Alan Greenspan.

No really.

Greenspan did a little too much deregulating in the wrong areas.

(Or so im told by people who should know what they're talking about)

EAGLE EYE
09-20-2008, 02:02 AM
We can also blame Immortal Technique for the damage he's done to the minds of some of our junior posters

Longbongcilvaringz
09-20-2008, 02:07 AM
I think the minds of a few of our senior posters are more of a problem.

im talking about people like palehorse and style. who think they know things about stuff, but actually just apply what they think is 'knowledge' from other areas in areas where this 'knowledge' has no application, i guess

TSA
09-20-2008, 02:10 AM
yeah, immortal technique is worst to young kids then project pat

and project pat as said "nigga kill yo sef" and "cocaine, its what we put, inside our nose" over and over till you wanna put cocaine into your nose


technique causes them to think ANYTHING against conventional wisdom is incorrect and ANYTHING that is different for what's believed is "knowledge"

yeah. a disgruntled jigsaw looking mcdonalds nightshift worker that got fired is right about then entire universe and the entire universe is wrong about the entire universe

smooth moves faggot. smooth moves.

Longbongcilvaringz
09-20-2008, 02:10 AM
I read this blog sometimes, he says some good things sometimes.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/03/15/is-lehman-brothers-next/

It is good for laymen (ho ho) like myself i guess.

(Note the date on that post btw)

Huggasaurus Sex
09-20-2008, 09:25 AM
keep in mind that the $85B to AIG is actually a bridge loan with a relatively high interest rate so AIG has an incentive to borrow as little of that as possible.

the truth is though, at this point, the costs would most likely be greater if all these large banking institutions were allowed to go bankrupt. the government's actions have helped prevent a more severe crisis in the short term.

in the long run however these bailouts will cause more problems than they solve because they unavoidably create moral hazard which induces these banks to take on greater risks than they would if there was no government backstop. if this is allowed to continue then the drain on the country's already strained reserves could endanger the U.S.'s solvency. a revision of our credit rating down to AA would mark the end of america's global hegemony which lasted throughout much of the last century.

globalization has thrust this planet into uncharted territory and surely there will be oversights in how best to approach these new problems. on the plus side, once we establish a history of what works and what doesn't then policy makers of the future can use that to guide their decisions. but for now, things could get ugly.