PDA

View Full Version : Lets Talk About Good Ol' Choice


Visionz
12-10-2008, 07:09 AM
Stick up kids, corrupt cops and crack rocks


How the fuck did we end up here??

Money and power is fine yet its so often built on a foundation of lies and deceit or an escape from poverty and despair.

Life and history is a summation of the choices people have made.

Different circumstances lead to different choices, different choices lead to different outcomes, different outcomes put people in different circumstances and hence its a cycle that keeps on and on.

But it all starts with a choice and so if the world is fucked up its cuz people have made fucked up choices; some deliberately and others unintentionally.
Its a situation that's both simple and extremely complicated at the same time.

If we want a better world then we ALL have to make better choices in our own individual lives.

(I got more pennies to throw in on the subject but I wanna see what discussion comes up first) peace fam

Edgar Erebus
12-10-2008, 07:12 AM
But it all starts with a choice and so if the world is fucked up its cuz people have made fucked up choices; some deliberately and others unintentionally.

If it's unintentional, is it choice at all?

Visionz
12-10-2008, 07:19 AM
If it's unintentional, is it choice at all?
yes, that particular sentence is referring to making a choice that leads to an unexpected negative outcome hence a fucked up choice


for example, like if a jewish guy voted for Hitler after WWI cause he thought he'd do a good job of rebuilding the country

Edgar Erebus
12-10-2008, 07:24 AM
Aha.

Yes, we have a complete freedom of choice and complete responsibility for the outcome of it... The bigger question is if ignorance is a good excuse for making fucked-up choices. Like when you ate all momma's cookies she prepared for guests and then cried as she whipped you with that belt "I didn't know who were they for, momma, I'M SO SORRY!!!!"

Visionz
12-10-2008, 07:33 AM
Aha.

Yes, we have a complete freedom of choice and complete responsibility for the outcome of it... The bigger question is if ignorance is a good excuse for making fucked-up choices. Like when you ate all momma's cookies she prepared for guests and then cried as she whipped you with that belt "I didn't know who were they for, momma, I'M SO SORRY!!!!"

I'm sure ignorance is the reason for a lot of fucked up choices that people make but someone's going to have to deal with the mess.

Either mom is gonna bake more cookies or the guest are gonna do without.

I'm of the tendency to think that there's hardly ever (with the exception of extreme cases) such a thing as a good excuse. If you're coming up with excuses then someone fucked up.

Absolving yourself from the responsiblity of your actions isn't a lesson that I'd ever teach to a child. It'd almost guarentee them to be a fuck-up later on in life.

Black Man
12-10-2008, 07:55 AM
Stick up kids, corrupt cops and crack rocks


How the fuck did we end up here??

Money and power is fine yet its so often built on a foundation of lies and deceit or an escape from poverty and despair.

Life and history is a summation of the choices people have made.

Different circumstances lead to different choices, different choices lead to different outcomes, different outcomes put people in different circumstances and hence its a cycle that keeps on and on.

But it all starts with a choice and so if the world is fucked up its cuz people have made fucked up choices; some deliberately and others unintentionally.
Its a situation that's both simple and extremely complicated at the same time.

If we want a better world then we ALL have to make better choices in our own individual lives.

(I got more pennies to throw in on the subject but I wanna see what discussion comes up first) peace fam

To make a choice, you first have to know you have a choice.

Edgar Erebus
12-10-2008, 08:38 AM
What is a choice?

What are its origins?

Do you have a choice?

Who is the Original Man?

Edgar Erebus
12-10-2008, 08:42 AM
I'm sure ignorance is the reason for a lot of fucked up choices that people make but someone's going to have to deal with the mess.

Either mom is gonna bake more cookies or the guest are gonna do without.

I'm of the tendency to think that there's hardly ever (with the exception of extreme cases) such a thing as a good excuse. If you're coming up with excuses then someone fucked up.

Absolving yourself from the responsiblity of your actions isn't a lesson that I'd ever teach to a child. It'd almost guarentee them to be a fuck-up later on in life.


Basically those are my thoughts too, but what to do about it? Did mom do the right thing when she whipped the kid? Do cops do the right thing when they put in jail a rudebwoy from a rudebwoy family who were telling him from the day one there isn't other way, that white man does everything just to put them down?

Does the world do the right thing hating on American voters who elected an Obama, Brzezinski disciple?

Prince Rai
12-10-2008, 01:00 PM
good topic!

when faced with a situation, we are all exposed to choices. what sways our decisions are the immediate benefits we may get. For example with the cookie story:

1) Eat and be satisfied, or,
2) Probably ask mum because it is the safer thing to do.. but face mum saying "no cookies for now!"

we as humans like taking the odd chance and eat the cookies without taking the more safer route.

History teaches us that risk has developed humans, but when we fall and don't make it, we FALL.

diggy
12-11-2008, 12:12 AM
I agree we are resposible for our choices.

Excuses are just a smokescreen to hide behind when people mess up.

I've noticed in the past, some people who have gotten in trouble blamed external objects for what they did instead of taking the blame for their dumb acts.

They blamed alcohol, society, the way they were raised, daddy being absent or whatever, but that is ,like I've said, a smokescreen to hide behind, while they try to avoid responsibility for what THEY DID.

Some people do not think of the effects of their actions in my opinion or they don't care.

Face of the Golden Falcon
12-11-2008, 04:58 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

... without making excuses, though, we still have to address the reasons behind why people do things and it is in no way as simple as:

Choice A = right
Choice B = wrong

I'll choose "Choice A" (or B)

Yeah, people blame society, or their upbringing and such for the their behavior and use it as an excuse. That ain't cool.

But the fact is, society, our upbringing and such do shape our behavior. Even worse, is the fact that many of our actions are not choices we make, instead they are behavioral patterns that are ingrained in our subconscious, and given the right trigger they will happen automatically like any other action performed by our subconscious.

In extreme cases when we are in a heightened state of emotion, we are thrown into trance where we have little to no conscious control of our actions. This is why we have people murdering people from "temporary insanity".

We most definitely have to take responsibility for our actions, and that means addressing the reasons why we do certain things. Developing systems that effectively change behavioral patterns. Addressing the subconscious imagery used in our media. Putting in place leaders who have achieved a certain level of spiritual (moral) development etc.

It is very easy to throw stones at those who do wrong. The fact is though, that the vast majority of us use only about 1/3 of our potential free will. Most of the time we are governed by our own emotions, desires, by group think, even so-called rational thinking often hinders free will.

If we do not have complete free will in the first place, the ability to make a conscious decision without emotions, desires, attachment etc. etc. getting in the way then this is the first thing we have to address.

SHEM HETEP

Edgar Erebus
12-11-2008, 09:14 AM
Yes, but those are extreme cases, as you said, and some countries even modified their criminal justice codes to include such cases, for example France who has clearly defined what's a "crime from passion."

But still it's a problem. Can you prosecute a soldier who participated in a gang-rape in some godforsaken village? 'Cause he could really just say "fuck no" and die innocent there.

Olive Oil Goombah
12-11-2008, 10:24 AM
Do you believe in the conflict theory or the functionalist theory of sociology? is there much of a difference?
Are they the results of 'civilization'??

Like it or not, we are 'killing' stuff whenever we need to it, be it a plant or animal.

Its probable that plants are the most durable species, much more durable than animalia

im going off topic and rambling

diggy
12-11-2008, 11:07 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...


In extreme cases when we are in a heightened state of emotion, we are thrown into trance where we have little to no conscious control of our actions. This is why we have people murdering people from "temporary insanity".

In my opinion, things like murdering people from insanity is a build up of events, circumstances, and choices (that lead to it).It could be prevented.


We most definitely have to take responsibility for our actions, and that means addressing the reasons why we do certain things. Developing systems that effectively change behavioral patterns. Addressing the subconscious imagery used in our media. Putting in place leaders who have achieved a certain level of spiritual (moral) development etc.

I agree.

It is very easy to throw stones at those who do wrong. The fact is though, that the vast majority of us use only about 1/3 of our potential free will. Most of the time we are governed by our own emotions, desires, by group think, even so-called rational thinking often hinders free will.

How does rational thinking hinder free will?

If we do not have complete free will in the first place, the ability to make a conscious decision without emotions, desires, attachment etc. etc. getting in the way then this is the first thing we have to address.

Maybe our emotions and desires compliment our will. I think if they are used the right way, there is no harm.

SHEM HETEP
.

J.T.S.
12-11-2008, 12:00 PM
Peace to the thread starter excellent thread, first of all i want to add on to this topic by saying yes there is right and wrong, such as good, and evil.
For instance my daughter was swearing for a while she kept saying bitch to everyone, this mostly happened when i was away at work.
so one day i come home and she says hi daddy then she says bitch, her mother scolded her which didn't work.
i didn't chastise her i actually told her that the word isn't supposed to be said to people and i also told her it's a bad word,and i took away her favorite toy which made her scream, and yell(she said daddy no!)
So i told her I'll give her the toy as long as she didn't say the word anymore, to make a long story short we went grocery shopping and a lady called the cashier a bitch, and the cashier went off at the lady.
Then my daughter said daddy I'm sorry for saying that bad word.
I don't know maybe this is corny but it was something i wanted to share with you guys.
peace

Face of the Golden Falcon
12-11-2008, 08:45 PM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

Yes, but those are extreme cases, as you said, and some countries even modified their criminal justice codes to include such cases, for example France who has clearly defined what's a "crime from passion."


By extreme cases I was referring to the extremity of the wrong-doing. We go into emotional trance many times a day and often times during it we make wrong choices. It doesn't have to be murder, it could be eating bullshit food, or anything that we know (consciously) is wrong, yet we keep doing it. That action is under the control of the sub conscious. This is the key to changing unwanted behavioral patterns. There is no such thing as will-power. One's Will and ones power are separate most of the time, meaning the will cannot influence the power the way we would want it to.


In my opinion, things like murdering people from insanity is a build up of events, circumstances, and choices (that lead to it).It could be prevented.

True indeed. Exactly my point. We must work on prevention, which requires an understanding of why we do certain things in the first place.

How does rational thinking hinder free will?

What I meant (by "so-called rational thinking") was that often what we think is rationality is really our emotions and desires. We rationalize our actions all the time in our own mind to justify an action but are really emotionally twisting that rationale to give us the green light to do something we know we shouldn't.

Maybe our emotions and desires compliment our will. I think if they are used the right way, there is no harm.They certainly do, but not if they are used for making decisions. Earlier in the post I mentioned that Will and Power are separate. Emotions are the power. We are supposed to use our free will, to make right decisions and then use positive emotions (joy etc.) to fulfill the action. Emotions are the fuel for action they are not supposed to influence our decisions. When our Will is free of emotional influence, then we can make decisions based on truth and law (Maat).

SHEM HETEP

snapple
12-11-2008, 08:52 PM
untill you become an adult you cant fully understand the decision making process....the human brain takes 2 long to develop unfortunatly....