View Full Version : We all knew the day would come

12-28-2008, 12:38 PM
When whites would try to claim rap music, just like they have claimed every other genre of music BLACKS have created...

Rap music originated in medieval Scottish pubs, claims American professor

Rap music originated in the medieval taverns of Scotland rather than the mean streets of the Bronx and Brooklyn, an American academic has claimed.

By Simon Johnson
Last Updated: 3:57PM GMT 28 Dec 2008

Professor Ferenc Szasz argued that so-called rap battles, where two or more performers trade elaborate insults, derive from the ancient Caledonian art of "flyting".

According to the theory, Scottish slave owners took the tradition with them to the United States, where it was adopted and developed by slaves, emerging many years later as rap.

Professor Szasz is convinced there is a clear link between this tradition for settling scores in Scotland and rap battles, which were famously portrayed in Eminem's 2002 movie 8 Mile.

He said: "The Scots have a lengthy tradition of flyting - intense verbal jousting, often laced with vulgarity, that is similar to the dozens that one finds among contemporary inner-city African-American youth.

"Both cultures accord high marks to satire. The skilled use of satire takes this verbal jousting to its ultimate level - one step short of a fist fight."

The academic, who specialises in American and Scottish culture at the University of New Mexico, made the link in a new study examining the historical context of Robert Burn's work.

The most famous surviving example of flyting comes from a 16th-century piece in which two rival poets hurl increasingly obscene rhyming insults at one another before the Court of King James IV.

Titled the Flyting Of Dunbar And Kennedy, it has been described by academics as "just over 500 lines of filth".

Professor Szasz cites an American civil war poem, printed in the New York Vanity Fair magazine on November 9, 1861, as the first recorded example of the battles being used in the United States.

Professor Willie Ruff, of Yale University, agreed that Scottish slave owners had a profound impact on the development of African American music traditions.

Comparing flyting and rap battles, he said: "Two people engage in ritual verbal duelling and the winner has the last word in the argument, with the loser falling conspicuously silent."

*shakes head*

Ghost In The 'Lac
12-28-2008, 12:42 PM
ahahaha what a load of crap.


12-28-2008, 12:48 PM
hey when you white your right

12-28-2008, 12:49 PM
hey when you white your right
lol basically

12-28-2008, 12:51 PM
Blacks invented rap. Whites made money off it.


Crack Killz
12-28-2008, 12:52 PM
that has to be the most stupidest piece of shit I've ever read.

12-28-2008, 12:56 PM

12-28-2008, 01:12 PM
wooow take that shit down lol

12-28-2008, 01:17 PM
I can't believe nobody pointed out the obvious yet, this man clearly has no idea what "rap music" is, verbal jousting is beefing and I submit that rap music did not start that trend, an example is Sweet Home Alabama and Southern Man, but there are many others. If he sees rap music as just verbal jabbing, he is a nitwit.

Ghost In The 'Lac
12-28-2008, 01:20 PM
^no one pointed it out because it clearly did not need pointing out. the whole story doesnt deserve any comment.

12-28-2008, 01:21 PM
^but he has a degree...he graduated from a prestigious ivy league school....he obviously knows what he is talkin bout!!

12-28-2008, 02:08 PM
this reminds me of when my mother told me that shepherds in sardegna (an italian island),where we are from,would sing and meanwhile they would improvise (read freestyle lol) the lyrics.

so basically this is our culture..............nah just playing but thats a true story

12-28-2008, 03:32 PM
that propa sounds lyk full on bullshit!!! and im white and from the U.K

google: the Flyting Of Dunbar And Kennedy

top link: http://www.geocities.com/bescritt/theflytingofdunbarandkennedie.txt

these are just two 'verses?' lol it goes on forever


_Quod Dunbar to Kennedy_

SCHIR JOHINE the Ros, ane thing thair is compild
In generale be Kennedy and Quinting,
Quhilk hes thame self aboif the sternis styld;
Bot had thay maid of mannace ony mynting
In speciall, sic stryfe sould rys but stynting;
Howbeit with bost thair breistis wer als bendit
As Lucifer, that fra the hevin descendit,
Hell sould nocht hyd thair harnis fra harmis hynting.

The erd sould trymbill, the firmament sould schaik,
And all the air in vennaum suddane stink,
And all the divillis of hell for redour quaik,
To heir quhat I sould wryt with pen and ynk;
For and I fly; sum sege for schame sould sink,
The se sould birn, the mone sould thoill ecclippis,
Rochis sould ryfe, the warld sould hald no grippis,
Sa loud of cair the commoun bell sould clynk.

Bot wondir laith wer I to be ane baird,
Flyting to use richt gritly I eschame;
For it is nowthir wynning nor rewaird,
Bot tinsale baith of honour and of fame,
Incres of sorrow, sklander, and evill name;
Yit mycht thay be sa bald, in thair bakbytting,
To gar me ryme and rais the feynd with flytting,
And throw all cuntreis and kinrikis thame proclame.

_Quod Kennedy to Dumbar_

Dirtin Dumbar, quhome on blawis thow thy boist?
Pretendand the to wryte sic skaldit skrowis;
Ramowd rebald, thow fall doun att the roist,
My laureat lettres at the and I lowis;
Mandrag, mymmerkin, maid maister bot in mows,
Thrys scheild trumpir with ane threid bait goun,
Say _Deo mercy_, or I cry the doun,
And leif thy ryming, rebald, and thy rowis.

Dreid, dirtfast dearth, that thow hes dissobeyit
My cousing Quintene and my commissar,
Fantastik fule, trest weill thow salbe fleyit,
Ignorant elf, aip, owll irregular,
Skaldit skaitbird, and commoun skamelar;
Wan-fukkit funling, that natour maid ane yrle,
Baith Iohine the Ros and thow sall squeill and skirle,
And evir I heir ocht of your making mair.

Heir I put sylence to the in all pairtis,
Obey and ceis the play that thow pretendis;
Waik walidrag, and verlot of the cairtis,
Se sone thow mak my commissar amendis,
And lat him lay sax leichis on thy lendis,
Meikly in recompansing of thi scorne,
Or thow sall ban the tyme that thow wes borne,
For Kennedy to the this cedull sendis.

12-28-2008, 03:37 PM

William Dunbar (c. 1460 – c. 1520), Scottish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland)

i guess whoever it was who said "rap on the whole, isnt even 20 years old" is wrong and was at the time hahaha this is some proposterus shit lol

12-28-2008, 03:48 PM
Who gives a shit. Noone cares about who made post-it notes or forks.

I'm sure people have been rhyming words for thousands of years. 50 years from now they'll discover that before we stole the land from the indians that they were beatboxing and throwing down sick multi's from their wigwams.

Mr. X
12-28-2008, 03:53 PM
The Scots knew how to flow back then lol