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TSA
01-05-2009, 01:48 AM
Do you believe that mans actions and creations can be unnatural?
is so what is an unnatural act?

i don't, cause we are a part of nature and from nature with no difference between us and other animals other then looks and our survival methods.

All the stuff that look like it's not of nature, such as this here computer, really are of nature cause there's nothing in or on it that isn't from nature. Infact it's just a hodgepodge of various natural elements.

on a more human perspective, ppl say things like incest, and cannibalism aren't natural, but such things exist in nature and nature is everything, and it is someones nature that leads them to such things.

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-05-2009, 02:35 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

...but not all things in nature indulge in incest and/or cannibalism, they only do so according to their nature. Which means not all acts Man does is natural. We indulge in unnatural acts because we lack the knowledge of who we are.

They have monkeys that dress themselves in human clothes, but they have been trained to do that. It's not natural for them to do it. It's not in their nature. Animals, plants, all of nature has an inbuilt understanding of what they're nature is and unless it is fucked with they will act in accordance with that nature.

Man is confused, we have forgotten our true nature. Only when we come to the knowledge of who we are as individuals and as a people will we truly act in accordance with our true nature.

SHEM HETEP

TSA
01-05-2009, 02:46 AM
well in that logic you can say life isn't natural. most things in nature are not alive. So if you say incest and cannibalism is unnatural cause not all things do it, then the same applies for being alive.

What your saying about the monkeys is hard to argue though cause we do do some unnatural stuff to things but isn't it a natural drive in us that causes us to do it? Isn't our nature of wanting to alter our reality natural? after all it is our nature and various things in nature do the same thing such as birds turning twigs and mud into a nest, crabs turning tin cans into shells, monkeys turning twigs into termite fetching devices.

so if things in natural are notorious for altering the reality of an object of thing, then isn't alteration of reality (putting cloths on an unclothed animal) natural. The impulse, items and subjects invovled in the action as well as any other involved element you can think of all come from nature.

EAGLE EYE
01-05-2009, 03:05 AM
internet sonning is out of the scope of nature you retard tissa.

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-05-2009, 03:07 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings TSA...

...I'm not saying "something" isn't natural because not all things do it. I am simply saying that "things" (animals, plants whatever...) do what is natural for them. A grizzly bear stands in a river and swipes at a salmon because it is in its nature to do so. You don't see no kangaroo in the river swiping at a salmon. The roo has it's own way of doing things. Same thing with Man. We have our own way of doing things, some of those things may be the same as animals (we are related physically), but that does not mean that everything animals do we should do, like I said a kangaroo don't swipe at no salmon. When we come to the knowledge of ourselves and our nature our actions will truly be "natural" because they in harmony with our environment. The big give away as to whether or not Man as a people are acting naturally is the effect we have on our environment. We are fuckin' it up. It's like on the Matrix, Agent Smith calls Man a virus, and a virus is not natural. A virus is the result of inbalance.

When we know ourselves, act naturally, that is, in accordance to who we are (God), our environement will prospor, they way it is supposed to.

SHEM HETEP

Tage
01-05-2009, 03:18 AM
Christians say that gay sex is unnatural.... as opposed to a man walking on water.

diggy
01-05-2009, 04:07 AM
My definition of natural is that which goes in accordance with the most highest principles of existence. Unnatural is the opposite.

food for thought
01-05-2009, 04:28 AM
my definition of natural- anything that occurred/occurs without the interruption/influence of human beings.

from reading your posts, i guess ure saying that all things are natural since the spare parts(for lack of better word) that make up what humans build are natural substances, therefore the final product must be natural.

this theory implies that anything and everything in the world is natural because even things that are man made have natural substances in order to build the object they intend to. to make this simple, i think this is nonsense because once man tweeks with a substances properties to make it react the way he/she wants it you, it can no longer be considered "natural".

thoughts?

btw, dont act like u didnt get this topic out of a philosophy class discussion lol b/c i remember having this specific discussion in class lol.

diggy
01-05-2009, 04:50 AM
this theory implies that anything and everything in the world is natural because even things that are man made have natural substances in order to build the object they intend to. to make this simple, i think this is nonsense because once man tweeks with a substances properties to make it react the way he/she wants it you, it can no longer be considered "natural".

thoughts?

An example of man tweeking with stuff are some of the substances on the periodic table. Some substances will only be in existance for nanoseconds after bombarding particles to make them - they are unstable and are hard to measure.

I would not call that unnatural though, cuz the substance is only doing what it's properties allow it to do.

To me unnaturalness is when things are out of harmony (as Falcon said) at the expense of other things.

Things are natural when they do what they are supposed to do with balance and harmony.

Rame
01-05-2009, 07:36 AM
Are you Rev Run's son?

Charles Barry
01-05-2009, 10:33 AM
Homosexuality: Unnatural

food for thought
01-05-2009, 01:06 PM
lmao

TSA
01-05-2009, 01:43 PM
my definition of natural- anything that occurred/occurs without the interruption/influence of human beings.

from reading your posts, i guess ure saying that all things are natural since the spare parts(for lack of better word) that make up what humans build are natural substances, therefore the final product must be natural.

this theory implies that anything and everything in the world is natural because even things that are man made have natural substances in order to build the object they intend to. to make this simple, i think this is nonsense because once man tweeks with a substances properties to make it react the way he/she wants it you, it can no longer be considered "natural".

thoughts?

btw, dont act like u didnt get this topic out of a philosophy class discussion lol b/c i remember having this specific discussion in class lol.
no, i actually JUST signed up for philosophy and will start soon but haven't taken it.


anyways, about the tweeking, lets ya a meteor hits earth, the impact has been proven so powerful that it changes the properties of rocks from being 1 type to another in a flash.

If a leaf falls on a fire its properties are changed as would anything that lands on fire, and these properties are changed and 'tweeked' to an extent that humans cannot do without the use of fire.

Water can also change land formations, and land formations can change water

would you say any of these things are unnatural because they all, like humans and all other living things, have a nature and power to change the properties of other things and their surroundings.

i dont see why a person building a car is unnatural but termites building a colony is natural

TSA
01-05-2009, 01:47 PM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings TSA...

...I'm not saying "something" isn't natural because not all things do it. I am simply saying that "things" (animals, plants whatever...) do what is natural for them. A grizzly bear stands in a river and swipes at a salmon because it is in its nature to do so. You don't see no kangaroo in the river swiping at a salmon. The roo has it's own way of doing things. Same thing with Man. We have our own way of doing things, some of those things may be the same as animals (we are related physically), but that does not mean that everything animals do we should do, like I said a kangaroo don't swipe at no salmon. When we come to the knowledge of ourselves and our nature our actions will truly be "natural" because they in harmony with our environment. The big give away as to whether or not Man as a people are acting naturally is the effect we have on our environment. We are fuckin' it up. It's like on the Matrix, Agent Smith calls Man a virus, and a virus is not natural. A virus is the result of inbalance.

When we know ourselves, act naturally, that is, in accordance to who we are (God), our environement will prospor, they way it is supposed to.

SHEM HETEP


say an underground volcano goes of and destroys an entire wilderness, is the volcano unnatural because there's no balance in this situation, as with a lot of situations like animals eating other animals by your definition?

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-05-2009, 01:48 PM
(double post)

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-05-2009, 01:50 PM
no, i actually JUST signed up for philosophy and will start soon but haven't taken it.


anyways, about the tweeking, lets ya a meteor hits earth, the impact has been proven so powerful that it changes the properties of rocks from being 1 type to another in a flash.

If a leaf falls on a fire its properties are changed as would anything that lands on fire, and these properties are changed and 'tweeked' to an extent that humans cannot do without the use of fire.

Water can also change land formations, and land formations can change water

would you say any of these things are unnatural because they all, like humans and all other living things, have a nature and power to change the properties of other things and their surroundings.

i dont see why a person building a car is unnatural but termites building a colony is natural


depends if the change is made in harmony with the parts and the whole. Man rarely takes this into consideration, which is why so many of our actions lead to fuckin' up our environment.

90proof_Vodka
01-05-2009, 01:55 PM
Human Being is different to anything else on the planet because of the ability to think to believe to feel. They want us to believe that we are like animals, but every action u take counts in the book of universe. About homosexuality and other - read Bible (Soddom and Homora) . homos cant produce children to this world - its unnatural , its a sin. Any country that legalizes gays , they multiply by hundreds straight up. Consequences can be disastrous. P.S. all this shit that u call civilization is bullshit , when humans gona go nothin gona be left . Only stone can stand centuries as u can c (pyramids , incas . etc) . And we are not a civilization by the way ( Cash rules everything around u black as u can see:) )

TSA
01-05-2009, 02:01 PM
I think animals can think and feel as they have consistantly proven to humans but we for some reason believe they're just floating sacks of meat.

the first expiriment on learning and thought was conducted on dogs.


depends if the change is made in harmony with the parts and the whole. Man rarely takes this into consideration, which is why so many of our actions lead to fuckin' up our environment.
i dont think a meteor takes things into consideration, it just flys and hits. Nor do i think fire takes anything into consideration

infact im pretty sure man is the only thing that takes anything into consideration before acting.

food for thought
01-05-2009, 02:03 PM
i was gonna mention how humans were different too, but i forgot


Human Being is different to anything else on the planet because of the ability to think to believe to feel.



^ actually, i think u got it twisted cause animals do think and believe and feel. lol u ever had a pet LMAO

the thing humans have that animals dont is the ability to reason (to know right from wrong)

food for thought
01-05-2009, 02:11 PM
i dont think a meteor takes things into consideration, it just flys and hits. Nor do i think fire takes anything into consideration

infact im pretty sure man is the only thing that takes anything into consideration before acting.

i see what this cat saying about being in harmony with nature

it dosnet take things tinto consideration but they were all made naturally and occer naturally like when the metoeor hits the planet, the position of the planet and the movement of the metoeor can all be considered acts of nautre.

the same thing with the fire cause once set, fires burn on its own in the presence of oxygen, so this can also be considered an act of nature.s

TSA
01-05-2009, 03:16 PM
so then why isn't it natural for me as a human to turn a pig into a hot dog?
as you've shown the reason these things around natural are because their causes and all elements invovled come from nature. The same with a computer.

diggy
01-05-2009, 10:41 PM
Dictionary of philosophy:

Nature - ... An indefinitely mutable term changing as our scientific conception of the world changes... the term applies both to individual species and also to the natural world as a whole. The sense in which it applies to species quickly links up with ethical and aesthetic ideals: a thing out to realize its nature; what is natural is what it is good for a thing to become; it is natural for humans to be healthy or two-legged, and departure from this is a misfortune or deformity...

...Different conceptions of nature continue to have ethical overtones...


This should give you a hint on what it's opposite is.

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-06-2009, 01:38 AM
P.E.A.C.E and Blessings TSA...


i dont think a meteor takes things into consideration, it just flys and hits. Nor do i think fire takes anything into consideration

infact im pretty sure man is the only thing that takes anything into consideration before acting.

No, but everything (except man) acts under an in built law of balance, there is no need for a meteor or anything else other than man to take things into consideration. Man can take things into consideration due to its free-will. Man has free will because Man is God.

God makes a Universe programmed with various laws. This is why animals and such can only act naturally (unless fucked with by man). God also makes a vessel that it can use to come into the world; the physical, emotional, mental body that is man. For God to truly express its Self in the Universe, Man must have free will. Free will to choose to act out of harmony and balance, or in harmony and balance (its true nature).

No doubt we will continue to disagree on range of things, TSA, so long as we hold different opinions on who and what Man is.

SHEM HETEP

Civilison
01-08-2009, 01:21 AM
as an ostentatious poster i gotta say you're probably trying to deem natural an unnatural act of yours.

the truth is every being in the universe knows what's natural. natural is a word you can't deem that computer natural cuz it ain't what's natural is the elements that make it up that one day were in their original state in NATURE.

there is a code out there lil g that every being has got that dna pattern to follow. that's natural.

over time man has created unnatural things out of nature and now thru posters like you is trying to deem all things natural because originally they were a part of nature? nah that's not how i think thats foul to me.

the ability to determine what's truly natural is at the core of every human individual. its like how does that be know to pollinate and to pollinate with an exact science - that's natural. not a product that has been manipulated chemically into existence and that's not to say that ppl over history never changed things chemically it's to say that these days and times it seems like it just went to far. to me that's unnatural.

by your definition everything in the universe could be natural and while you are rigght in one aspect you lack badly in another i believe your equation isn't complete.

im not trying to diss you i just dont agree with what you say. pz

peace FALCON you're making lots of sense g.

KidSha
01-08-2009, 01:37 AM
as an ostentatious poster i gotta say you're probably trying to deem natural an unnatural act of yours.

the truth is every being in the universe knows what's natural. natural is a word you can't deem that computer natural cuz it ain't what's natural is the elements that make it up that one day were in their original state in NATURE.

there is a code out there lil g that every being has got that dna pattern to follow. that's natural.

over time man has created unnatural things out of nature and now thru posters like you is trying to deem all things natural because originally they were a part of nature? nah that's not how i think thats foul to me.

the ability to determine what's truly natural is at the core of every human individual. its like how does that be know to pollinate and to pollinate with an exact science - that's natural. not a product that has been manipulated chemically into existence and that's not to say that ppl over history never changed things chemically it's to say that these days and times it seems like it just went to far. to me that's unnatural.

by your definition everything in the universe could be natural and while you are rigght in one aspect you lack badly in another i believe your equation isn't complete.

im not trying to diss you i just dont agree with what you say. pz

peace FALCON you're making lots of sense g.


Your my big brother in real life, but my wu crop ego fucks your up any day... dont front on the swagger...

KidSha
01-08-2009, 01:38 AM
and yo im coming over 2 blaze, peace...