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food for thought
01-05-2009, 11:27 PM
this right here is an interesting ass article

they did an experiment to basically see what ppl and researchers were talkignabout twhen they said they heard voices when they were tripping and got "information" from these voices...

keep an open mind and peep game

(edited for length)

************************************************** **********

Listening for the Logos:
a study of reports of audible voices at high doses of psilocybin

Horace Beach, Ph.D.
Psychological Assistant
Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
Department of Psychiatry
Chemical Dependency Recovery Program
Vallejo, California
E-mail: Horace.Beach@ncal.kaiperm.org

For an updated list of psilocybin studies, click here

There are reports that psilocybin mushrooms can engender a dialogue between the one who ingests them and a voice of unknown origin. The objective of the present study was to search for such reports, to look for differences between those who reported having heard a voice with psilocybin use and those who had not, and to characterize the voice. An anonymous questionnaire was distributed among the members of several organizations resulting in a sample of 128 participants. The phenomenon of a perceived voice during psilocybin mushroom use was reported in better than a third of participants.

Overall, the results of this study suggest that what made the difference between hearing a voice or not with psilocybin was more about what people did, than who they were. Can it be said that there are boundaries to the human psyche? Psilocybin voice experiences force us to confront our notions of a personal self and a universal Self.

For a copy of this thesis contact:
UMI Dissertation Services
300 North Zeeb Road
P.O. Box 1346
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1346
tel: (313) 761-4700

There are a number of verbal and literary reports that psilocybin (or "psilocybian") mushrooms speak to human beings - that is, they can engender or catalyze an auditory dialogue between the one who ingests them and a voice of unknown origin. T. McKenna terms this "interiorized linguistic phenomenon" an experience of the Logos. The Logos is to be understood as a sort of intermediary between what one might consider to be God, the Truth, or the "Suchness" of reality, and human beings. While it is possible to experience directly the Absolute, or noumenon of phenomena, or the Nondual, much of recorded historic experience of what has come to be known as divine inspiration or revelation comes through one of the various manifestations or intermediaries of the Absolute in the form of gods, spirits, angels, or ancestors. The daimon of Socrates is a good case in point; for example, Angeles states that in Plato's Symposium "the daimon communicates to the gods the prayers of humans and reveals to humans the commands of the gods." At times these intermediaries of the Absolute appear to humans, but they also reportedly can be experienced as disembodied voices.

The Other

While it can be argued that the voice, or voices, may ultimately be "some previously hidden and suddenly autonomous part[s] of one's own psyche" (T. McKenna, 1991b), such discussion can lead one into the philosophical abyss of what is ultimately meant by "one's own psyche" and the concept of self and other. Nonetheless, the voices many times present themselves as quite alien.

Voices

T. McKenna conducted a survey that was highly influential in the development of this study, in that its results suggested that the audible voice phenomenon was dosage-related. He has also stated that for some individuals, as much as 9.5 grams of dried mushrooms are required to elicit a voice, and also that other conditions and techniques may be necessary to hear a voice. Though there are a number of different types of voice experiences, the common thread running through them all is the imparting of information to the listener. This is the crucial importance of voices. In traditional usage, the mushroom voices give healing information. While there are many reports of experiences with psilocybin that do not include the phenomenon of voices, it should be noted that "the Indians recognize that it is not to everyone that they speak" (Munn, 1976). Perhaps they do not speak to one for a number of reasons: poor mental set, the lack of a technique to elicit a voice, poor environmental setting, old or improperly stored mushroom material weakening the psychoactive effects, insufficient dosage, psilocybin mushrooms versus synthetic psilocybin, poor absorption in the stomach, idiosyncratic body chemistry, mental experience, a person's sensory input style, or not enough experiences with psilocybin (use over time may deepen the experience, as with LSD in psychotherapy) (Grof, 1985, 1988).

Differences Between the "Yes" and "No" Voice(s) Groups

True to T. McKenna's suggestions for how to increase the possibility of voice experiences with psilocybin, the group that reported having heard a voice(s) with psilocybin use (the Yes group), on average, took the mushroom more times, took a larger amount of dried grams of mushrooms per use, and took the mushroom more often in darkness than the No group. In fact, the average reported dried grams of psilocybin mushrooms taken per experience for the No group is less than the average minimum amount of dried grams of psilocybin mushrooms needed to hear a voice(s), as reported by the Yes group. The Yes group also used psilocybin and then tried or intended to hear (evoke) a voice(s) more times than did the No group. Curiously, and not predicted by T. McKenna, the Yes group reported using psilocybin mushrooms grown themselves more often than the No group. One may speculate that the care and attention required by mushroom cultivation might contribute to a greater intention to hear a voice(s), thus leading to a more successful evocation. There were two findings of statistically significant differences between the Yes voice(s) and No voice(s) groups. First, the Yes group reported taking psilocybin more often while alone than the No group. This could have also been predicted by T. McKenna's suggestions of technique. By being alone, talking is eliminated as a distraction. It must be that the phenomenon of a voice(s) is subtle enough, at least initially, as to be missed due to exterior (talking, light) or interior (lack of intention) distractions. Namely, the voice(s) does not present itself to the "bemushroomed" person simply because he or she ingested a certain amount of psilocybin. Although, as many participants suspected (according to comments written on the questionnaires), larger average doses may be one of a number of factors to account for the presence or absence of the voice(s) experience. The second statistically significant difference between the groups was the finding that those in the Yes group endorsed having heard a voice(s), at least once, when using drugs other than psilocybin significantly more often than did the No group. In other words, those participants who heard voices with psilocybin also tended to hear voices while using other drugs. It is interesting to note that the descriptions of these voices were not so different from the descriptions of voices heard while using psilocybin. These results tend not to uphold the theory that psilocybin is somehow unique in its ability to catalyze or elicit voice phenomena, and yet a majority of the participants who reported hearing a voice(s) through psilocybin and other drugs or means indicated that they first heard a voice(s) with psilocybin. Perhaps for those individuals, psilocybin acted as a catalyst that opened a door to the subtle experience of the voices, which then allowed them to experience the voices by other means. Also it should be noted that, by far, the most popular answer as to which drugs other than psilocybin also catalyzed voices was LSD, followed by DMT and mescaline.

LSD and DMT are similar to psilocybin in that they can be classified as serotonin-like-and even though mescaline can be classified as catecholamine-like, its psychedelic effects can probably be represented in terms of changes in serotonergic neurotransmission. Thus, the suggestive connection between drug-catalyzed voice(s) phenomena and serotonergic neurotransmission, discussed earlier in this article, appears again. Of T. McKenna's technical suggestions for eliciting a voice(s), only two were not supported: First, the admonition not to eat a full meal within the six hours before taking psilocybin (in fact, the No group, on average, did this less often). The second is his suggestion that cannabis may aid the hearing of voices. In only 17.4% of total voice(s) experiences with psilocybin (n = 34) was it reported that it was helpful to take any other drug(s) with psilocybin to hear a voice(s) - but, in agreement with T. McKenna, of the few who responded in the affirmative, cannabis was the most popular choice.

A number of crude measurements of personality were attempted in this study. An examination was made of introverted and extraverted attitudes, remembering dreams, having lucid dreams, meditating, "Type A personalty," and "repressive coping style." However, the groups were not found to differ significantly on any of these facts. Also, a number of personal beliefs were examined: religious belief, belief in spirits, belief in precognition, belief in life after death, and personal health assessment. On none of these beliefs was this study able to show a repeatable, statistically significant, difference between the Yes and No groups. A number of possible sex differences were also examined and none were discovered. It seems that men were not experiencing significantly more male voices than women, and women were not experiencing significantly more female voices than the men.

Overall, the results of this study suggest that what made the difference between hearing a voice or not with psilocybin was more about what people did, than who they were. Better than one third of participants' reported experiences with a voice(s) and psilocybin involved some form of evocation. That evocation was not reported to occur 100% of the time prior to hearing a voice(s) may indicate that evocation was not always necessary, or that perhaps after a participant evoked the voice(s) in some way in his/her early experiences, it was no longer always necessary to do so with later voice(s) experiences.

Voice(s) Characteristics

It was not reported very often that there was more than a single voice heard during an experience. Additionally, it was found that the voice experience cannot be maintained for long periods of time (average reported length of time was about 19 minutes).

A look at those characteristics endorsed as occurring, on average, in more than 50% of reported total experiences with a voice(s) and psilocybin, may also help to describe trends that characterize the voice(s). The experience of the voice(s) is generally reported as positive, insightful, and useful. Though evidently a subtle phenomenon, the voice(s) is reported most of the time as clear-sounding and sensible. The experiences of being able to communicate with the voice(s), and gain information, were also reported to occur in over half of the episodes. These facts tend to lend credence to the theory that the voice(s) may be experiences of a Logos-like phenomenon.

Concerning the more specific characteristic tendencies of the voice(s), those who have experienced the phenomenon describe the following features as occurring in most of their experiences: First, the voice(s) usually sounded old. This is consistent with the findings of at least one other source (Oss & Oeric, 1991). Second, the voice(s) usually sounded male. Third, the voice(s) was usually described as low-pitched (bass-like), slow paced, and of low volume. It is interesting to note that at least one other tryptamine compound has been found to alter (lower) the perceived pitch of externally-generated voices and music, DIPT, or, N,N-diisopropyltryptamine (Alexander Shulgin, personal communication, January 25, 1996). One additional point: in a little less than half of reported experiences, participants stated that the voice(s) expressed emotion; compassion, anger, love, calm, humor, fear, and sadness were most often reported.

Other features of the voice(s)

Emphasis of the "otherness" of the voice(s) pervades the phenomenological descriptions given by many of the participants, and is also borne out by some of the statistical data. In just under half of reported experiences, participants had the sensation that the voice(s) came from outside of their heads. A majority of participants also stated that the voice(s) was not familiar when they first heard it with psilocybin. A few participants even commented that although it was their own voice they heard, the "information" was not from them. Finally, in just under half of reported experiences, participants said that the voice spoke in first person. Interestingly, this occurrence was highly correlated with the participants receiving insight from the voice(s). It may be that the experience with an other who is an I (who witnesses, reflects, communicates, shares) facilitates insight, much as in psychotherapy (Frank, 1989). One of the most interesting findings of this study is that in over 45% of participants' total experiences with a voice(s) and psilocybin, sounds other than voices were present. Notice should be given to the words used by a number of the participants: high pitch, high tone, humming, buzzing, whirring, ringing, rustling, rushing water, howling, vibrations, whooshing, crinkling, insect-like, drumming, whirling-circular. These reports are similar to observations made by T. McKenna and D. McKenna (1993), Strassman, Qualls, Uhlenhuth, & Kellner (1994) and Weil (1980). It may very well be that, as Gordon (1993) concluded, a condition of ringing, buzzing, hissing, or humming in the ears, from any cause, can trigger auditory hallucinations of music, or even speech. For example, one participant reported that he heard voices when a motor (lawn mower) was running. An interesting side note: use of Heimia salicifolia (sinicuiche), a plant that contains the alkaloid cryogenine or vertine (Ott, 1993), has been reported to cause a ringing in the ears that then turns into orchestrated music. The many reports of the Yes voice(s) group hearing other sounds are consistent with a theory that these sounds may be involved in the hearing of a voice(s).

It may be that the Logos (as Mind) superimposes itself on, and utilizes, the formless white-noise of internal (tinnitus, for example) or external (drumming, rattles, motors, running water, glossolalia) stimuli, to create a voice(s), and then, entering the individual's faculty of audition, speaks. Meaning (form) is superimposed on the formless.

So what does it mean?

My study lends credence to the theory that psilocybin inspired voices are expressions of the Logos. Beyond that, what the Logos is, well, that depends on how "Eastern" your world view is. That is, when people ask me what I think these voices may be, whether part of us or not, I have to first ask them what the mean by "us." The question of what is self and what is other then takes prominence. Is there anything that we can say is truly alien? Though in our experiences we may encounter a "Wholly Other," from an Eastern perspective (or in the ancient West, a Plato-Plotinian one) all of the Cosmos is interior to us. Can it be said that there are boundaries to the human psyche? Psilocybin voice experiences force us to confront our notions of a personal self and a universal Self.

Acknowledgments

This article is based upon my Clinical Psychology doctoral dissertation entitled, "Listening for the Logos: A study of reports of audible voices at high doses of psilocybin," which was produced at The California School of Professional Psychology at Alameda. I wish to acknowledge my chairperson, Fred Leavitt, Ph.D., and my committee members Norm Livson, Ph.D., and Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin, Ph.D. Special thanks to Sylvia Thyssen, Networks Coordinator for MAPS, and Rick Doblin, MAPS President, who were the first to agree to distribute my questionnaire - and to the MAPS members who participated.
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thoughts?

let me add that Shamans aka Indigineous peoples "Medicine Men" use hallucinogens to come up with everything from medicine for a eprson illness to guidance with a specific cause.

this always baffles me, supposedly a person who is sick goes to the village Shaman and the shaman and the "patient" tke the hallucinogen and trip out. and by the time they get done tryipping they find the answer/cure to the persons illness/problems.

this is documented fact. this is how they survived for centuries. "civiliazed" ppl disregard their practices as though they are all crazy and push their pharmacuticals on us with their faultiness and side effects.

build...

food for thought
01-05-2009, 11:28 PM
shit is madd long but i bolded the important parts u can disregard erthign else

ALCATRAZ
01-05-2009, 11:57 PM
sum that up for a hood nigga one time

food for thought
01-06-2009, 12:01 AM
lol just skim over the bold shit man ure killing me

anyway, theyre sayin they had an experiment and they found that ppl on high doses on mushrooms and under specific "settings", a person tripping sometimes is able to hear a voice that the person can communicate with, and the voice is relying "information" to the tripper.

ALCATRAZ
01-06-2009, 12:07 AM
when u say people survived for centuries using this u mean they literally got high and was like "iight nigga im back and i got secrets" and that was it? nigga thats crazy scientific wizardry............

zooruka
01-06-2009, 12:11 AM
my cousin ate a whole box of shrooms on his trip to europe and he said it was a fucked up experiance, he said he wouldnt recomend it to anyone and would never do it again...he reckoned he was lost in amsterdam for hours just trippin out and after the experiance said to himself how could any country make that shit legal.... like it is in holland.


peace

diggy
01-06-2009, 01:56 AM
In my early teens, during a stressful time, I've once heard a voice speak to me, but I didn't listen to it. That was without chemical aid.

cutn' heads
01-06-2009, 06:43 AM
psylocibin can be used in extremely positive ways. it can change your whole perspective on the world and your relationship with your own spirituality.

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=16826

V4D3R
01-06-2009, 08:31 AM
Mush is the 3rd pillar

iLLogik
01-06-2009, 09:29 AM
good topic for my first post. me and my girl ate shrooms once, the purple caps which are the strongest or so i've heard. shit had me bugging out, definately a bad trip. i couldnt look at anything, and when i did it made it horrible. i tried turning the tv on, watching something funny. but it just wasnt happening. we literally thought we were dying because it was too much. it is literally a strong dose of foood poisoning. my girl got real sick. she wasnt crying but water was pouring out of her eyes like a faucet and she was drooling. i was selling weed at the time and had mad green in the crib, so i didnt want to call an ambulance even though we were both feeling like we were going to die. my girl stopped talking and closed her eyes but water was still pouring out. it ended up taking control of me and i ended up slowly closing my eyes without any control. it made me real tired but when my eyes closed i wasnt asleep. i ended up giving up and saying to myself we were both going to die and just kept my eyes closed. what seemed like an hour later ( only 10 minutes ) my girl started screaming so i got up. i ended up coaxing her to walk outside so we could call an ambulance. when the ambulance showwed up they loaded her in and i went in the back with her bugging out. looking at the paramedics immedietly snapped me back to reality but still trippin. as i looked at the medic sitting next to her on the stretcher his face started melting off his skull. thats the only way i can explain it. a couple hours later after numerous tests my girl's effects wore off. the doctor called it the belladonna effect ( look it up ) and said it is caused when u slip out of reality from food poisoning. and it was maximized by mixing two grown substances which mixed different chemical reactions. ( weed and mushrooms. )

my girl who didnt believe in anything before hand said she was hearing voices telling her to relax in the warmpth of the light. she said when she felt like she was sleeping, her subconcious was in this bright ass room and it was really comfortable, and a female voice was basically telling her to relax in the comfort and warmpth. and this was happening when she was still laying on my bed next to me. and she said she knew i was there but couldnt talk 2 me because she was too comfortable in the bright warm room with the female voice and she didnt want to come back and be suffering from the shrooms. i asked her what made her wake up and scream and she said that the room faded and she came back to her tripped out 'reality.'

iLLogik
01-06-2009, 09:31 AM
also a funny note. i ended up breaking my stereo when we first started trippin because of t pain and his voice machine on the radio, the song seemingly never ended and was bugging me out crazy like the poltergeist.

iLLogik
01-06-2009, 09:36 AM
also; i've done shrooms 1nce before this and it put me in a place which seemed like my own reality. i felt exhaulted over everyone else because i felt like the shrooms were rare and in turn put me on a plane ( not the one that flies ) above everyone. i felt invinisible. and it was the same when i smoked dust. i ended up blacking out on dust and people said i was talking about throwing the earth at the moon because it was too bright. they said i bent down and grabbed 2 handfuls of grass and tried to literally pick the earth up.

cutn' heads
01-06-2009, 09:49 AM
good topic for my first post. me and my girl ate shrooms once, the purple caps which are the strongest or so i've heard. shit had me bugging out, definately a bad trip. i couldnt look at anything, and when i did it made it horrible. i tried turning the tv on, watching something funny. but it just wasnt happening. we literally thought we were dying because it was too much. it is literally a strong dose of foood poisoning. my girl got real sick. she wasnt crying but water was pouring out of her eyes like a faucet and she was drooling. i was selling weed at the time and had mad green in the crib, so i didnt want to call an ambulance even though we were both feeling like we were going to die. my girl stopped talking and closed her eyes but water was still pouring out. it ended up taking control of me and i ended up slowly closing my eyes without any control. it made me real tired but when my eyes closed i wasnt asleep. i ended up giving up and saying to myself we were both going to die and just kept my eyes closed. what seemed like an hour later ( only 10 minutes ) my girl started screaming so i got up. i ended up coaxing her to walk outside so we could call an ambulance. when the ambulance showwed up they loaded her in and i went in the back with her bugging out. looking at the paramedics immedietly snapped me back to reality but still trippin. as i looked at the medic sitting next to her on the stretcher his face started melting off his skull. thats the only way i can explain it. a couple hours later after numerous tests my girl's effects wore off. the doctor called it the belladonna effect ( look it up ) and said it is caused when u slip out of reality from food poisoning. and it was maximized by mixing two grown substances which mixed different chemical reactions. ( weed and mushrooms. )

my girl who didnt believe in anything before hand said she was hearing voices telling her to relax in the warmpth of the light. she said when she felt like she was sleeping, her subconcious was in this bright ass room and it was really comfortable, and a female voice was basically telling her to relax in the comfort and warmpth. and this was happening when she was still laying on my bed next to me. and she said she knew i was there but couldnt talk 2 me because she was too comfortable in the bright warm room with the female voice and she didnt want to come back and be suffering from the shrooms. i asked her what made her wake up and scream and she said that the room faded and she came back to her tripped out 'reality.'


great story man. i had a similar experience with the purple caps and some kind buds. i thought i was dying and wrote 3 pages of goodbyes to my family on a notepad. when i finally woke up i looked at the pad it was all some strange heiroglyphics. not scribble, but heiroglyphics. it was far out...

food for thought
01-06-2009, 01:16 PM
good topic for my first post. me and my girl ate shrooms once, the purple caps which are the strongest or so i've heard. shit had me bugging out, definately a bad trip. i couldnt look at anything, and when i did it made it horrible. i tried turning the tv on, watching something funny. but it just wasnt happening. we literally thought we were dying because it was too much. it is literally a strong dose of foood poisoning. my girl got real sick. she wasnt crying but water was pouring out of her eyes like a faucet and she was drooling. i was selling weed at the time and had mad green in the crib, so i didnt want to call an ambulance even though we were both feeling like we were going to die. my girl stopped talking and closed her eyes but water was still pouring out. it ended up taking control of me and i ended up slowly closing my eyes without any control. it made me real tired but when my eyes closed i wasnt asleep. i ended up giving up and saying to myself we were both going to die and just kept my eyes closed. what seemed like an hour later ( only 10 minutes ) my girl started screaming so i got up. i ended up coaxing her to walk outside so we could call an ambulance. when the ambulance showwed up they loaded her in and i went in the back with her bugging out. looking at the paramedics immedietly snapped me back to reality but still trippin. as i looked at the medic sitting next to her on the stretcher his face started melting off his skull. thats the only way i can explain it. a couple hours later after numerous tests my girl's effects wore off. the doctor called it the belladonna effect ( look it up ) and said it is caused when u slip out of reality from food poisoning. and it was maximized by mixing two grown substances which mixed different chemical reactions. ( weed and mushrooms. )

my girl who didnt believe in anything before hand said she was hearing voices telling her to relax in the warmpth of the light. she said when she felt like she was sleeping, her subconcious was in this bright ass room and it was really comfortable, and a female voice was basically telling her to relax in the comfort and warmpth. and this was happening when she was still laying on my bed next to me. and she said she knew i was there but couldnt talk 2 me because she was too comfortable in the bright warm room with the female voice and she didnt want to come back and be suffering from the shrooms. i asked her what made her wake up and scream and she said that the room faded and she came back to her tripped out 'reality.'

lmao what are u doing calling the ambulance on your girl man LOL. calling the police or ambulance when your tripping is something u DONT want to do. u goot deal with all that extra shit and then they fuck you shit up in the hospital. did they pump some shit into her stomach? i heard thats what they do.

anyways, u should have just went with the trip and let it take u where it wanted to . once u eat them shits u just gotta go with the flow. the feelings of you dying might have been your "ego" dying and being reborn. thesre is research about this also. were u fucked up is when u started trying to fight the felling/trip off. this can be like hell to a person tripping.

the best thing to do in those situation is top change the "setting". yall should have went for a walk, or just listened to chill music.

shrooms definately aint something to toy with. wre u guys prepared for the trip?

spunds like the voices your girl was hearing were actually trying to and calm her down and have her submit to the trip. yall should have just relaxed and seen where the trip took you.

u said u closed your eyes for a while, did u see crazy visuals n shit behind your eyelids?

how much did yall eat? what color where the stems?

Ghost In The 'Lac
01-06-2009, 01:27 PM
can u at least post the link so we can read the whole thing?

people you gotta keep posting links with your shit man

Ghost In The 'Lac
01-06-2009, 01:29 PM
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v07n1/07112bea.html

^the link if people want to read the full article

food for thought
01-06-2009, 03:02 PM
^ no doudt

i didnt think nobody would be trying to read the whole thing

Ghost In The 'Lac
01-06-2009, 03:12 PM
Nah man shits mad interesting to me, im actually gonna rep you for posting this shit.

Later on im gonna roll one up and read thru all of this

food for thought
01-06-2009, 03:25 PM
when u say people survived for centuries using this u mean they literally got high and was like "iight nigga im back and i got secrets" and that was it?

yea, thats what im saying.

alot of indigineous tribes even today have these Shamans aka Medicine Men

but they come back with informaiton on what to do to heal an persons illness for example. they might have to make a specific brew they get information on how to make what they need to make and what process or what not to carry on

food for thought
01-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Nah man shits mad interesting to me, im actually gonna rep you for posting this shit.

Later on im gonna roll one up and read thru all of this

fa sho

this shit always interested me too man, that cat Terrence Mckenna they keep referring to, he always talks about shit like this with Hallucinogens. my brother put me on this fool and i been interested in that shit ever since

V4D3R
01-06-2009, 04:37 PM
The mush you want is the red caps white stems brown feet.

Covered here
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=780277#post780277

food for thought
01-06-2009, 04:43 PM
that sounds liek Fly Argaric aka Amanita Muscalina or some shit

the mario bro's mushrooms.

the red caps with white dots?

they dont have pslicoybin and are a different effect then regular shroom

i hear their no good too


http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/gallery/files/1/0/8/5/FlyAgaric-Amanitamuscaria_PA228267.jpg

food for thought
01-06-2009, 04:48 PM
V4DR,


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Long Trip: Magic Mushrooms' Transcendent Effect Lingers

Survey shows that profound mental changes induced by psilocybin have lasted for more than a year

By David Biello




People who took magic mushrooms were still feeling the love more than a year later, and one might say they were on cloud nine about it, scientists report in the Journal of Psychopharmacology.
"Most of the volunteers looked back on their experience up to 14 months later and rated it as the most, or one of the five most, personally meaningful and spiritually significant of their lives," comparing it with the birth of a child or the death of a parent, says neuroscientist Roland Griffiths of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, who lead the research. "It's one thing to have a dramatic experience you say is impressive. It's another thing to say you consider it as meaningful 14 months later. There's something about the saliency of these experiences that's stunning."
Griffiths gave 36 specially screened volunteers psilocybin, the active ingredient in so-called magic mushrooms. The compound is believed to affect perception and cognition by acting on the same receptors in the brain that respond to serotonin, a neurotransmitting chemical tied to mood.
Afterward, about two thirds of the group reported having a "full mystical experience," characterized by a feeling of "oneness" with the universe. When Griffiths asked them how they were doing 14 months later, the same proportion gave the experience high marks for transcendental satisfaction, and credited it with increasing their well-being since then.
But some scientists noted that this psilocybin study was just the first trip on a long journey of understanding. "We don't know how far we can generalize these results," cautions neuroscientist Charles Schuster of Loyola University Chicago and a former director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse. "To attribute all of this to the drug, I think, is a mistake and to expect the same effects from simply taking the drug without this careful preparation in these kinds of people would be a mistake."
Herbert Kleber, who directs the division of substance abuse at Columbia University also notes that it is difficult to assess the mushroom's impact without detailed information on how individual lives were changed. For example, it remains unclear from the study whether volunteers really were more altruistic or simply claimed to be.
But the findings do seem to support reports of recreational users and what LSD guru and 1960s counterculture icon Timothy Leary made famous in his psychedelic lab at Harvard University.
Griffiths and Schuster are proponents of future research on psilocybin to determine whether it has long-term influence on the brain—and whether the reported mystical effects affect memory alone or stem from other physiological changes. This study is among the first of so-called "shrooms" in four decades, coming after the widespread, illegal use of hallucinogens as recreational drugs in the 1960s, which turned off corporate and academic researchers.
"I don't think the evidence is sufficiently strong for any beneficial effect in general for us to consider changing the legality of these substances until a great deal more research is done," Schuster says. "But the illegality should not interfere with this research."
For his part, Griffiths is now recruiting terminally illcancer patients for a trial that will test whether psilocybin mitigates the existential anxiety that comes with facing death. Strangely enough, he says, it may also be a salve for alcoholism and drug addiction.
"It does sound counterintuitive," Griffiths says. But, "six of the 12 AA [Alcoholics Anonymous] steps are related to a higher power and surrendering to it. Many people don't engage fully into the 12-step program because they don't have a connection to a higher power. One can't help but wonder whether an experience like this might be useful."
__________________
"I'LL BE YOUR WAR GUIDE THROUGH THE DARK SIDE"




^ this article you posted back then is on point. i cosign this shit.

i was trying to explain that stuff to diggy in his LSD thread

Mumm Ra
01-06-2009, 10:46 PM
I never actually heard voices on shrooms but then again I haven't really tripped hardcore on them either. Most was about an eighth. But I do remember not being able to understand a damn word coming out of this girl's mouth. And sounds/ music in general is just mad bugged out on shrooms.

Civilison
01-06-2009, 11:51 PM
i never heard no voices but yeah wired up on psychedelics you can see or hear some trippy shit if you don't know this don't mess around it with it.

Mckenna is all right but i just don't know there is something about that guy he's truly devoted to what he does and I appreciate his knowledge but there is some conry element ther that i don't like don't feel the vibe of. it's all good but all that stuff can lead you to some foul shit if you can't control it i'm not against occasional experimentation just don't get caught all up in that game. if done properly certain chemicals can really make you realize certain key things and that's if you need it.

peace to all the seekers out there

food for thought
01-07-2009, 12:07 AM
Mckenna is all right but i just don't know there is something about that guy he's truly devoted to what he does and I appreciate his knowledge but there is some conry element ther that i don't like don't feel the vibe of. it's all good but all that stuff can lead you to some foul shit if you can't control it i'm not against occasional experimentation just don't get caught all up in that game. if done properly certain chemicals can really make you realize certain key things and that's if you need it.

peace to all the seekers out there

peace

im guessing what u think is corny about he dude is his apparent enthusiasm of using drugs, like hes a corny druggie or something. am i right?

if so, dont forget that he dosent reccommend everyone trip out an shit all the time.

his theory is that 3 or 4 high dose trips are enough for one to feel "psychedelic" all year (what that V4DR article touches on)

he even thinks ppl shouldnt smoke weed all the time like they do. he says one is kept from experiencing the full effect of the urb. he instead advises using weed on weekends and shit only. this also makes sense if u quit smoking for a while and started again u know u get high like u never did before and its a better, more spiritual experience than the recreational using of weed everyday like everybody does

he is also against the recreational use of any psychedelics.

he also theorizes that not all people are fit to trip and go on these spiritual "journeys"

so imo he knows what he is talking about and is not trying to push the drug culture on society as some critics suggest

Civilison
01-07-2009, 03:24 PM
^no doubt fair enough i agree and i said i wasn't knockin his ideas or knowledge he has lots to say.

and it's not only that geekie thing it seems as if he himself is lacking a spiritual fundament and maybe that's why he ended up doing what he does in the first place. i don't really know it's not my place to judge but im just saying im feelin something there altho i had a phase where i was all into those books too so it's all good.

peace!

WARPATH
01-07-2009, 05:40 PM
:r

food for thought
01-08-2009, 12:39 AM
no doubt, civil

iLLogik
01-08-2009, 01:16 AM
lmao what are u doing calling the ambulance on your girl man LOL. calling the police or ambulance when your tripping is something u DONT want to do. u goot deal with all that extra shit and then they fuck you shit up in the hospital. did they pump some shit into her stomach? i heard thats what they do.

anyways, u should have just went with the trip and let it take u where it wanted to . once u eat them shits u just gotta go with the flow. the feelings of you dying might have been your "ego" dying and being reborn. thesre is research about this also. were u fucked up is when u started trying to fight the felling/trip off. this can be like hell to a person tripping.

the best thing to do in those situation is top change the "setting". yall should have went for a walk, or just listened to chill music.

shrooms definately aint something to toy with. wre u guys prepared for the trip?

spunds like the voices your girl was hearing were actually trying to and calm her down and have her submit to the trip. yall should have just relaxed and seen where the trip took you.

u said u closed your eyes for a while, did u see crazy visuals n shit behind your eyelids?

how much did yall eat? what color where the stems?

we called the ambulance because it wasnt just tripping. it made her literally sick. i didnt want to get into detail on that because i don't want to remember that part because it was so nasty and i don't want to think of my shorty in that situation.

i would have let the trip take me wherever but my girl's situation took it somewhere else. and actually, since that situation she has became more..intellectual..should i say...she cares about shit more like world issues etc...before we would talk about things for a couple of minutes and thats that...i used to get annoyed with her ignorance, now she's more interested in everything.

and with me, feeling like i was close to death and actually accepting it ( closing my eyes and just waiting for something to happen ) has made me fear a lot less. it's hard to explain but i definately approach everything with a different angle. and i pride myself in the fact that i snapped myself back into reality in order to help a loved one, something she wasnt able to do herself.

when i closed my eyes it felt as if i was flying through my thoughts.

** an add on to this story, didnt know yall were gonna be so entertained: before shit went down hill and we were actually tripping, she was staring at the wall bugging out. and i was like what? and she was like you dont see that? i looked at the wall and saw nothing, looked back at her - then back to the wall and it looked like the wall was rippling like a rock thrown into a lake.

the hospital didn't pump her stomach because by the time we got in she was beginning to come around. the doctors were more interested in the rare effects the weed and shroom mixture made ( i.e. eyes watering like faucets without crying, the actual color of her eyes disappearing into one big pupil. )

also; the stems were white with like purple viens, caps were purple.

WARPATH
01-08-2009, 12:16 PM
thoughts?

let me add that Shamans aka Indigenous peoples "Medicine Men" use hallucinogens to come up with everything from medicine for a eprson illness to guidance with a specific cause.

this always baffles me, supposedly a person who is sick goes to the village Shaman and the shaman and the "patient" take the hallucinogen and trip out. and by the time they get done tripping they find the answer/cure to the persons illness/problems.

this is documented fact. this is how they survived for centuries. "civilized" ppl disregard their practices as though they are all crazy and push their pharmaceuticals on us with their faultiness and side effects.

build...

I'm gonna guess you meant to say some tribes of indigenous peoples used peyote and/or mushrooms for prayer and healing. :b

The way I understand it is, when you under the influence your seeing the world in a different- more powerful or spiritual sense. This needs to be done under the proper guidance, or you could hurt yourself.

My uncle told me this story, he is what you would consider a "shaman".

Basically he says that when he was young, he stole his relatives peyote (uncle I think) and him and his girlfriend ate all of it. They started to see the world in a different light. They could see the life force in the nature around them, they could see the "blood or energy" moving through the veins in the leaves. As it started getting more intense they started to loose their minds. After about a day they went to their uncle who sang them songs and prayed with them until they came down from their "high."

Also, we're not from one of the peyote using tribes, but some members have adopted the peyote culture in recent times. My uncle isn't part of this peyote culture, but this his interpretation (as a healer) of it.

food for thought
01-08-2009, 09:22 PM
I'm gonna guess you meant to say some tribes of indigenous peoples used peyote and/or mushrooms for prayer and healing. :b

The way I understand it is, when you under the influence your seeing the world in a different- more powerful or spiritual sense. This needs to be done under the proper guidance, or you could hurt yourself.

My uncle told me this story, he is what you would consider a "shaman".

Basically he says that when he was young, he stole his relatives peyote (uncle I think) and him and his girlfriend ate all of it. They started to see the world in a different light. They could see the life force in the nature around them, they could see the "blood or energy" moving through the veins in the leaves. As it started getting more intense they started to loose their minds. After about a day they went to their uncle who sang them songs and prayed with them until they came down from their "high."

Also, we're not from one of the peyote using tribes, but some members have adopted the peyote culture in recent times. My uncle isn't part of this peyote culture, but this his interpretation (as a healer) of it.

nah, i meant to say it like i said

i was talking about indigenous tribes that have Medicine Men aka "Shamans".

i said hallucinogens because peyote and mushrooms are not the only substance they use like u said.

they use many and the one i was primarily talking about is Ayahuasca.

peyote and mushrooms are not even on the level on ayahuasca.

i know some tribes use peyote and mushrooms spiritually, but that was not what i was talking about.

i was talking about Medicine Men aka Shamans in indigenous tribes. there is usually just one in the tribe. and everybody from the whole tribe go to him for healing. everything from an illness to psychologcical shit

the way you described your uncle, thats not the type of Shaman ( the way u said he was) i was talking about.

ill try to find a video if anybodys interested

EAGLE EYE
01-09-2009, 02:17 AM
also a funny note. i ended up breaking my stereo when we first started trippin because of t pain and his voice machine on the radio, the song seemingly never ended and was bugging me out crazy like the poltergeist.


hahahahahahahahahhahaahhahahahahhahahahahahahahaha ahhaahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahhaahahahahah aha!



sounds like something i would do

iLLogik
01-09-2009, 02:24 AM
shit was pretty crazy. turned the radio off for like ten minutes, cut it back on and the song was still on.

Koolish
01-09-2009, 12:38 PM
In my early teens, during a stressful time, I've once heard a voice speak to me, but I didn't listen to it. That was without chemical aid.
stress can trigger some fucked up things.

i read on the internet somewhere there's people who hear voices, but aren't mentally ill.

The Void
01-09-2009, 12:49 PM
One time I was jamming on shrooms, I couldn't hear my bass at all, turned it all the way up and still couldn't hear it. My buddies yelled at me to turn it down. I said in a normal voice, "I can't hear it."

"WHAT!?!"

WARPATH
01-12-2009, 04:33 PM
nah, i meant to say it like i said

i was talking about indigenous tribes that have Medicine Men aka "Shamans".

i said hallucinogens because peyote and mushrooms are not the only substance they use like u said.

they use many and the one i was primarily talking about is Ayahuasca.

peyote and mushrooms are not even on the level on ayahuasca.

i know some tribes use peyote and mushrooms spiritually, but that was not what i was talking about.

i was talking about Medicine Men aka Shamans in indigenous tribes. there is usually just one in the tribe. and everybody from the whole tribe go to him for healing. everything from an illness to psychologcical shit

the way you described your uncle, thats not the type of Shaman ( the way u said he was) i was talking about.

ill try to find a video if anybodys interested

{:(

I understood what you were saying. :list:

What you consider Medicine men aka Shamans, are nothing more then spiritual teachers or interpreters.

Often times tribes didn't have just one or they wouldn't just go to one. There were many, and you had your choice, much like today you can choose which doctor, or priest, or church to go to.

I specified peyote and mushrooms, but there are other like you mentioned. However, these are plants and fungus prepared in specific manner, not your underground version that you get on the streets today. When you say hallucinogens your talking about a wide range substances. Natives didn't go to their local "shaman" for a couple hits of acid and enlightenment ( now you see what I'm getting at). The ceremonies were and still are performed under strict supervision and rules. And under these circumstances, there is no "tripping out."

I get my information from the source, aka Natives that still practice these ceremonies. Who happen to be school teachers, super superintendents, etc..

Shrooms,peyote and/or ayahusca (since we're trying to get specific, while generalizing at the same time) were not the cure all for native peoples.

:stroke:

Now stop for second and think about it before you try and pick apart my post- then build on, ask questions. :hooray:

Koolish
01-12-2009, 05:05 PM
albert hoffman talked about how traditionally it was the shaman who oversaw the ritual of taking these substances, but in the modern day the shaman is the psychiatrist overseeing the patient's LSD experience.

but too many doctors gave too many patients too much acid and fucked it up for everyone.

WARPATH
01-13-2009, 03:22 PM
albert hoffman talked about how traditionally it was the shaman who oversaw the ritual of taking these substances, but in the modern day the shaman is the psychiatrist overseeing the patient's LSD experience.

but too many doctors gave too many patients too much acid and fucked it up for everyone.

The experience can't even be compared like that. In my opinion, comparing these plants to other drugs is one of the reasons it was outlawed in the first place. I can practice those customs legally today, because of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act, but it wasn't established until 1978.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Religious_Freedom_Act

Bacdad
01-13-2009, 05:22 PM
great read,ive done shrooms twice and the second time was one of the best experiences of my life..but the first time was crazy when i was seeing everything in black and white and walking alone outside for like an hour and just couldnt find home i was so fucked up it felt like i was in a labyrinth that kept changing..my friends mom saw me slowly walking around in a circle sometimes with my hands up and talking to myself..the next morning i told her i quess clear liquor isnt my thing but she knew i wasnt just drunk

food for thought
01-13-2009, 06:09 PM
{:(

I understood what you were saying. :list:

What you consider Medicine men aka Shamans, are nothing more then spiritual teachers or interpreters.

Often times tribes didn't have just one or they wouldn't just go to one. There were many, and you had your choice, much like today you can choose which doctor, or priest, or church to go to.

I specified peyote and mushrooms, but there are other like you mentioned. However, these are plants and fungus prepared in specific manner, not your underground version that you get on the streets today. When you say hallucinogens your talking about a wide range substances. Natives didn't go to their local "shaman" for a couple hits of acid and enlightenment ( now you see what I'm getting at). The ceremonies were and still are performed under strict supervision and rules. And under these circumstances, there is no "tripping out."

I get my information from the source, aka Natives that still practice these ceremonies. Who happen to be school teachers, super superintendents, etc..

Shrooms,peyote and/or ayahusca (since we're trying to get specific, while generalizing at the same time) were not the cure all for native peoples.

:stroke:

Now stop for second and think about it before you try and pick apart my post- then build on, ask questions. :hooray:

i dont know why you are trying to argue over simple semantics and shit.

and you are real gay for neg reppin my post... but whatever

What you consider Medicine men aka Shamans, are nothing more then spiritual teachers or interpreters.

they are also considered spiritual teachers and interpreters. so what? these are titles they have. when one says Shaman, it is know that they are all those things combined.

you obvously are uninformed in the type of shaman i am talkin about.
this is evident fro mwhen you said your uncle use to steal his hallcuniogens and he is considrered a shaman. a shaman doesnet have to steal to get his hands on the substance. he has the knowledge on how to prepare it and where excatly to find the herbs he needs. he dosent have to be a delinquent about practicing what he is entitles to do.

Often times tribes didn't have just one or they wouldn't just go to one. There were many, and you had your choice, much like today you can choose which doctor, or priest, or church to go to.

most had one but others didnot. watever.

I specified peyote and mushrooms, but there are other like you mentioned. However, these are plants and fungus prepared in specific manner, not your underground version that you get on the streets today.

ure mentioning about peyote and mushrooms, when i started talking about hallucinogens that shamans use, shows a lack of understanding on your part to what i am taking about. peyote and mushrooms are used spiritually by some tribes but his is not what i was talking about. everybody knows the government let Indians use peyote because it was part of their religion. this is common knowledge. this is not what i am talking about.

When you say hallucinogens your talking about a wide range substances.

thats why i used the word. have u been reading my posts?

Natives didn't go to their local "shaman" for a couple hits of acid and enlightenment ( now you see what I'm getting at).

this is stupid. if this is all you are trying to say with your posts, u can go ahead and stop. once again, this is common knowledge. and i wasnt talkin gbaout enlightenment that you can get out of acid. i think i explained this a couple of times.

The ceremonies were and still are performed under strict supervision and rules. And under these circumstances, there is no "tripping out."

i used the word "trip out" to explain what i meant to say, to other heads that are not familiar with these practices.

and if you trying to imply that there is no "hallucination" that occurs durig these ceremonies, you are once again misinformed


I get my information from the source, aka Natives that still practice these ceremonies. Who happen to be school teachers, super superintendents, etc..

lol its obvious these are the type of ppl u r talking baout.

these are not who i am talking abuot. the tribes im talking about still live out in the rainforests, still tribal, and dont conform to western civilized lifestyles.

u prolly feel like u shuld speak on this cause ure native or watever but pls do the knowledge before speaking.

Shrooms,peyote and/or ayahusca (since we're trying to get specific, while generalizing at the same time) were not the cure all for native peoples.

lol watevr man. i said hallucniogens cause like i said, there are plenty substance that are used the way i described.

i mentioned ayahuasca after u started talking about peyote cause i thought that u would know that it is on a whole different level then peyote. and this is the substance that is usually used that i am informed about and therefore talking about.

they might not have been the cure for all native people but it still is the cure for the poeples of the Amazon etc, who continue to live that way.

once again, this is who i am talking about.

not natives that live in the midwest teaching schools and legally talking peyote.

peace

drippie k
01-13-2009, 08:16 PM
i enhale the smoke from burning marijuana plants

food for thought
09-25-2009, 11:52 AM
ummm

bump bro for those who missed it

djskillz
09-26-2009, 02:42 PM
Dope articles. I've never been that high as to where I was hearing voices but I would like to be hahaha.

ALCATRAZ
09-26-2009, 04:21 PM
readin this shit makes me wanna dive into the abyss !!!

food for thought
09-28-2009, 10:07 AM
yea


i ran into somebody on sarturday night who might be able to find me some, finally.


i might make the voyage soon...