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beautifulrock
02-08-2009, 10:03 AM
Alex Rodriguez Had Positive Steroids Test in 2003, S.I. Says



By Bob Bensch
Feb. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Alex Rodriguez (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Alex+Rodriguez&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), whose $275 million contract is the richest in baseball history, tested positive for steroids in 2003 while playing for the Texas Rangers, Sports Illustrated reported (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html?eref=T1) on its Web site yesterday.
Rodriguez, now a member of the New York Yankees, was among 104 players with positive tests for performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball’s 2003 anonymous survey testing, Sports Illustrated said, citing four unidentified people familiar with the results.
He declined to comment to the magazine when asked about the report. Rodriguez won the first of his three American League Most Valuable Player Awards and led the major leagues in home runs in 2003, when he was playing shortstop. He’s due to make $32 million in 2009, more than any other baseball player.
“I am just shocked,” former Cincinnati Reds shortstop Barry Larkin (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Barry+Larkin&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) said on MLB Network. “It’s just very disappointing. What he has done on the field, he’s a tremendous player. It certainly changes my view on some of his accomplishments.”
The report comes as Barry Bonds (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Barry+Bonds&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), baseball’s career home-run leader, prepares for a March 2 trial on charges he lied to a grand jury about using performance-enhancing drugs. Steroids testimony to Congress from Roger Clemens (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Roger+Clemens&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), a seven-time winner of the Cy Young Award as his league’s best pitcher, is being investigated by a grand jury to determine whether there is probable cause to indict him on perjury charges.
Scott Boras (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Scott+Boras&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), Rodriguez’s agent, didn’t return telephone or e-mail messages yesterday for comment, while Rangers spokesman John Blake (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=John+Blake&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) said the club had no comment.
Anonymous Tests
The 2003 anonymous tests were done to determine whether there was a need for more complete testing. As part of the agreement to conduct the tests, players who had positive results can’t be punished.
“Information and documents relating to the results of the 2003 MLB testing program are both confidential and under seal by court orders,” the Major League Baseball Players Association said in a statement. “We are prohibited from confirming or denying any allegation about the test results of any particular player(s) by the collective bargaining agreement.”
Baseball and the players union agreed in 2002 to the sport’s first plan to randomly test players for illegal steroids the following season. The two sides then agreed in 2005 on a new policy that included penalties for first-time steroids offenders.
‘Non-Disciplinary’
“Because the survey testing that took place in 2003 was intended to be non-disciplinary and anonymous, we cannot make any comment on the accuracy of the report,” Rob Manfred (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Rob+Manfred&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), MLB vice president of labor relations, said in a statement.
Former U.S. Senator George Mitchell (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=George+Mitchell&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) released a 311-page report on doping in baseball in December 2007 listing more than 70 current and former players, including Clemens. Rodriguez wasn’t named.
Rodriguez said in an interview with CBS Corp.’s “60 Minutes” four days later that he never used steroids or human- growth hormone.
“I just hope this is an isolated thing, maybe he tried it,” former Yankees coach Larry Bowa (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Larry+Bowa&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), currently with the Los Angeles Dodgers, said on the MLB Network. “I know Alex and right now I feel sorry for him. If he did it, he has to face the music.”
12th in Homers
Rodriguez, 33, ranks 12th (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/leaders.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&statType=1&sortByStat=HR&timeFrame=3&timeSubFrame2=0) in major-league history with 553 home runs over his 15-year career. A 12-time All-Star, he signed a record 10-year, $275 million contract with the Yankees in December 2007.
Rodriguez was the first overall pick in the 1993 draft by Seattle and made his major-league debut the following year at the age of 18. In his first full season in the majors in 1996, he led the AL with a .358 batting average and 141 runs, while hitting 36 homers and driving in 123.
He became a free agent after the 2000 season and signed a 10-year, $252 million contract with the Texas Rangers, at the time the most lucrative deal in sports history. In his first season with the Rangers, he set a club record with 52 homers and 133 runs scored.
Rodriguez captured his first MVP award in 2003 after tying for the major-league lead with 47 homers, driving in 118 runs, scoring 124 runs and batting .298. It was to be his last season with the club, and he was traded to New York in February 2004.
Move to Third
Rodriguez cleared the way for the trade by agreeing to move to third base with Derek Jeter (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Derek+Jeter&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) already at shortstop for the Yankees. During his first season, he became the youngest player to reach 350 homers and third-youngest to top 1,000 RBI.
He won the MVP again in 2005 and 2007. Following the 2007 season, he exercised an option to cancel out the remainder of his contract to become a free agent, before signing a new deal to stay in New York.
Former Yankees manager Joe Torre (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Joe+Torre&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) criticized Rodriguez last month in his new book, saying his addition to the team put a strain on the clubhouse. He also said Rodriguez was known as “A-Fraud” rather than his “A-Rod” nickname by his teammates and was obsessed by a rivalry with Jeter.
To contact the reporter on this story: Bob Bensch (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Bob+Bensch&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) in London at bbensch@bloomberg.net.









Haha I knew it, what a bitch.

oDoUoSoKo
02-08-2009, 10:05 AM
i thought u were refering the madonna thing.

b-dolo
02-08-2009, 11:16 AM
what is happening in baseball is starting to resemble what boxing went through. boxing used to be one of the major sports in the u.s. but fell off for various reasons, same thang is going to happen to baseball, 20 years from now, shit will be on same level as hockey or golf or x games.

Dirty Knowledge
02-09-2009, 12:25 AM
I agree with you B-Dolo, I think baseball is dying by the day.

THE W
02-09-2009, 12:32 PM
that game is pretty much a joke at this point.

next they'll be siting ken griffey for taking roids when he was hitting 50 bombs a year.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-09-2009, 01:12 PM
i dont think baseball will ever die out, and definitely won't go the route of boxing.

Name another sport AMerica watches in the summer???

This shit is the pasttime, look at the little league world series for cryin out loud. They dont do that for pop warner or youth basketball.

Baseball will be fine, they are doing a good job addressing the issue and cleaning the game up.
YOu can just look at the homerun numbers and realize that steroid use has been cut down.

The game is still great. AMericans love baseball. THe MLB is worldwide, the Baseball Classic just reenforces this.

fuck all the cheaters. I'm glad they got exposed, this needed to happen.

beautifulrock
02-09-2009, 01:22 PM
Baseball is timeless, these ass clowns just don't get the mythology of the game

Dirty Knowledge
02-10-2009, 12:55 AM
i dont think baseball will ever die out, and definitely won't go the route of boxing.

Name another sport AMerica watches in the summer???

This shit is the pasttime, look at the little league world series for cryin out loud. They dont do that for pop warner or youth basketball.

Baseball will be fine, they are doing a good job addressing the issue and cleaning the game up.
YOu can just look at the homerun numbers and realize that steroid use has been cut down.

The game is still great. AMericans love baseball. THe MLB is worldwide, the Baseball Classic just reenforces this.

fuck all the cheaters. I'm glad they got exposed, this needed to happen.

You cannot honestly sit there and say baseball is the same as it was in even the 60s or 70s. Back then, kids rushed home/skipped school just to watch the World Series. Back then the WS games were on during the day, early in the day. Not at night. And people loved it.
Baseball was better back then, better recieved, more loved.
Maybe when the Yankees start getting back up to their natural dominating state, then baseball will get better. Until then, all anyone will talk about is steroids in baseball. Like baseball is the only sport where that shits a problem. But aye it's cool, I love baseball, but I can willingly admit it's dying/isn't as Nationally Awesome as it once was.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-10-2009, 10:22 AM
baseballs golden age was the 50's, thats when it was at its peak and didnt have to compete with football or basketball, just boxing.

so it will never be as popular, but it will NEVER fade away.

the problem with baseball is that its unfairly tipped in favor of teams like LA, yankees and redsox. That is why its so down on top of the roid issue.

but teams like the Tigers, Indians, sox, yanks, have been around for 100 years. THese are institutions in the cities they play.

I think part of the problem is the salary cap issue and the unfair playing field.

If anything that will bring baseball down, and the yankees dominated everything will only hurt the game.

I kno yankee fans don't want to hear that but take college football for an example. WHen they started limiting the amount of scholarships, it gave these mid majors a huge boost and now they can at least compete if they build a good program.

Guarded By Martyrs
02-10-2009, 11:34 AM
Hahahahahaha...he sold it.

THE W
02-10-2009, 11:45 AM
football rules america and baseball is a distant, distant 3rd.

it will never completely fade away as theres to much history for it to become extinct. however, its in danger of becoming a niche sport on the level of hockey in this country.

the game needs star power. as much as people hate the yankees and sox when they were winning people watched because they had stars on their team. we've had mid market teams matchup in the world series the last 3 years and they've been ratings tanks because there's no stars. those games were great for die hard fans but those type of games arent gonna draw in new fans. also, its obvious the salary cap issue has not stopped mid markets from being succssful.

cleaning up the sport of steroids may do more harm than good. people wanted to see homeruns and big arms and most people really didnt care if these guys were juicing up. now you're taking a game that was already struggling with being a boring game and getting rid of the few remaining things about it that were interesting.

then theres the fact that society has changed. kids arent going out and playing catch with their dad or playing pickup baseball. there are WAY more basketball courts in the inner cities than there are baseball diamonds and basketball requires a lot less equipment to play and time to set up than baseball.

if a bunch of kids find some open space to play in they're more liable to get a football and play that then go get a bat, a bunch of gloves and make up some bases to play a game where they might take out a window. catch with the baseball has been replaced with catch with the football.

a slow, mythodical game like baseball just doesnt fit in todays fast paced world.

beautifulrock
02-10-2009, 11:49 AM
football rules america and baseball is a distant, distant 3rd.

it will never completely fade away as theres to much history for it to become extinct. however, its in danger of becoming a niche sport on the level of hockey in this country.

the game needs star power. as much as people hate the yankees and sox when they were winning people watched because they had stars on their team. we've had mid market teams matchup in the world series the last 3 years and they've been ratings tanks because there's no stars. those games were great for die hard fans but those type of games arent gonna draw in new fans. also, its obvious the salary cap issue has not stopped mid markets from being succssful.

cleaning up the sport of steroids may do more harm than good. people wanted to see homeruns and big arms and most people really didnt care if these guys were juicing up. now you're taking a game that was already struggling with being a boring game and getting rid of the few remaining things about it that were interesting.

then theres the fact that society has changed. kids arent going out and playing catch with their dad or playing pickup baseball. there are WAY more basketball courts in the inner cities than there are baseball diamonds and basketball requires a lot less equipment to play and time to set up than baseball.

if a bunch of kids find some open space to play in they're more liable to get a football and play that then go get a bat, a bunch of gloves and make up some bases to play a game where they might take out a window. catch with the baseball has been replaced with catch with the football.

a slow, mythodical game like baseball just doesnt fit in todays fast paced world.
that's methodical, and some of us still have enough brains to realize it's a chess match. Besides, the dramatic moments in baseball far outlast any other sport...

THE W
02-10-2009, 12:06 PM
chess is boring

Olive Oil Goombah
02-10-2009, 12:23 PM
football rules america and baseball is a distant, distant 3rd.

it will never completely fade away as theres to much history for it to become extinct. however, its in danger of becoming a niche sport on the level of hockey in this country.

the game needs star power. as much as people hate the yankees and sox when they were winning people watched because they had stars on their team. we've had mid market teams matchup in the world series the last 3 years and they've been ratings tanks because there's no stars. those games were great for die hard fans but those type of games arent gonna draw in new fans. also, its obvious the salary cap issue has not stopped mid markets from being succssful.

cleaning up the sport of steroids may do more harm than good. people wanted to see homeruns and big arms and most people really didnt care if these guys were juicing up. now you're taking a game that was already struggling with being a boring game and getting rid of the few remaining things about it that were interesting.

then theres the fact that society has changed. kids arent going out and playing catch with their dad or playing pickup baseball. there are WAY more basketball courts in the inner cities than there are baseball diamonds and basketball requires a lot less equipment to play and time to set up than baseball.

if a bunch of kids find some open space to play in they're more liable to get a football and play that then go get a bat, a bunch of gloves and make up some bases to play a game where they might take out a window. catch with the baseball has been replaced with catch with the football.

a slow, mythodical game like baseball just doesnt fit in todays fast paced world.

I disagree, and I dont kno that Basketball is more popular than baseball.

I dont buy the fast paced society thing, baseball is more than jsut the game itself(which is a great tense game)...its about the whole aura that surrounds going to the ballpark. There is somethign genuinely AMerican about it, and no other sport can touch that.

I think steroids has had a hugely NEGATIVE effect. People overrate TV ratings and star power..

The problem with baseball is the way its set up. Yea, everyone in Boston and NY and LA can get excited every off season, but no one else can do anything.

Baseball WILL die out if nobody can compete but these teams. The Players Union is the thing that is holding baseball down.
It is by far the strongest Union in sports.

The strike in 94 hurt baseball badly, when they cancelled the world series. Then they sold out to steroids and the homerun records and only recieved another black eye.

I think what they are doing is great. Clean the game up and let it be played the way it was supposed to be played.

There are a ton of young great players and the great thing about baseball is that anyone can play it as long as they possess the skills. YOu don't necessarily need to be a freak of nature.

World series rathing have been low because we have had some sweeps and non entertaining series.
PLus the historic and more recognizable teams usually have larger following.

A team like Tampa that just started up, or the Rockies who are only about 15 years old, aren't goig to draw huge ratings, so thats a part of it.


There is nothing like opening day, going to the ballpark during the summer, watching a game, getting a hotdog, seventh inning stretch.
No other sport has all that stuff.

Baseball will never die in America

Go to Boston, NY, LA, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Chicago, St. Louis, SF and ask them if they think baseball is dead.

Plus look at all these beautiful ballparks they have built since the 90's. No other sport can compete with the originality of baseball stadiums.

beautifulrock
02-10-2009, 12:41 PM
all they have to do is lower the mound 2 inches, home runs will be up, end of story, game fixed.

THE W
02-10-2009, 01:51 PM
I disagree, and I dont kno that Basketball is more popular than baseball.

pro basketball >>>>>>>> pro baseball
college basketball >>>>>>>>>>>> college baseball



college baseball >>>> darts

I dont buy the fast paced society thing, baseball is more than jsut the game itself(which is a great tense game)...its about the whole aura that surrounds going to the ballpark. There is somethign genuinely AMerican about it, and no other sport can touch that.

your opinion,

I think steroids has had a hugely NEGATIVE effect. People overrate TV ratings and star power..

i guess a lot of people do which is why football and basketball own baseball in america.

The problem with baseball is the way its set up. Yea, everyone in Boston and NY and LA can get excited every off season, but no one else can do anything.

despite this mid and small markets have been successful in the regular season and post season while the overbudgeted paper-contenders have flopped as of late.

its not like they got rid of salary caps 10 years ago. its been this way forever.

Baseball WILL die out if nobody can compete but these teams. The Players Union is the thing that is holding baseball down.
It is by far the strongest Union in sports.

The strike in 94 hurt baseball badly, when they cancelled the world series. Then they sold out to steroids and the homerun records and only recieved another black eye.

which, for better or for worse, got peoples attention turned back to baseball. if not for the steroid fueled exploits of sammy sosa, mark macquire, and barry bonds baseball would absolutely be a backburner sport like hockey is now. am i saying baseball should legalize roids? absolutely not. but it is what it is man.

I think what they are doing is great. Clean the game up and let it be played the way it was supposed to be played.

for die hard baseball fans, yes. for making the game appealing to new fans, no. the game in its purest form isnt appealing in todays world. people want to see hardhitting fast paced action and thats not baseball.

There are a ton of young great players and the great thing about baseball is that anyone can play it as long as they possess the skills. YOu don't necessarily need to be a freak of nature.

there are more great young players in football and basketball who ARE freaks of nature and people want to see people doing things they could never do.

World series rathing have been low because we have had some sweeps and non entertaining series.
PLus the historic and more recognizable teams usually have larger following.

A team like Tampa that just started up, or the Rockies who are only about 15 years old, aren't goig to draw huge ratings, so thats a part of it.

so why did you disagree with what dirty knowledge said about the game getting better if the yankees were contending again?

this is why i think parity is overrated. people dont want to see cinderella teams. they want to see marque teams play or at least one marque team play a cinderalla and root for the underdog to pull off an upset.


There is nothing like opening day, going to the ballpark during the summer, watching a game, getting a hotdog, seventh inning stretch.
No other sport has all that stuff.

your opinion,

Baseball will never die in America

Go to Boston, NY, LA, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Chicago, St. Louis, SF and ask them if they think baseball is dead.

go to canada and ask if hockey is dead. i didnt say it was dead or was going to die i said its in danger of becoming a niche sport.

Plus look at all these beautiful ballparks they have built since the 90's. No other sport can compete with the originality of baseball stadiums.

your opinion.


...

portis24
02-10-2009, 05:31 PM
i don't think his steroid use really helped his numbers any he's been pretty consistent throughout his career

Olive Oil Goombah
02-10-2009, 11:33 PM
...

your obviously anti-baseball for some reason.

I played all the sports, and to me, baseball was the hardest.

I can't say which sport I like better, because I enjoy all them for what they are and when they are played. Its the perfect year round sports entertainment and variety.

baby jesus
02-11-2009, 11:10 AM
Baseball Taking A Backseat To Basketball? I Dont Believe That No One Gives A Shit About Basketball Till The Playoffs Besides Hardcore Basketball Fans.

I Would Say Baseball Only Takes A Backseat To Football And Really Thats Because Football Is Set Up Perfectly They Only Play Once A Week On A Sunday No Less And It Is The Perfect Sport For TV.

beautifulrock
02-11-2009, 12:22 PM
Baseball Taking A Backseat To Basketball? I Dont Believe That No One Gives A Shit About Basketball Till The Playoffs Besides Hardcore Basketball Fans.

I Would Say Baseball Only Takes A Backseat To Football And Really Thats Because Football Is Set Up Perfectly They Only Play Once A Week On A Sunday No Less And It Is The Perfect Sport For TV.
Baseball and football overlap for 2 whole months, that's it, and it's mostly during football's pre-season, so you aren't missing much. I know when baseball's gone, I miss it way more than football, because they play every day.

TrueDciple
02-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Bullshit! Fuck Baseball , the MLB is full of crooked players, using steroids and fixing baseball bats to hit homeruns and shit. Get the fuck out of here with that nonesense. The only issue with the NBA was with a reff and dude its gone. Basketball Players are real fucking athletes who dont cheat to shine!.

beautifulrock
02-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Bullshit! Fuck Baseball , the MLB is full of crooked players, using steroids and fixing baseball bat's to hit homeruns and shit. Get the fuck out of here with that nonesense. The only issue with the NBA was with a reff and dude its gone. Basketball Players are real fucking athletes who dont cheat to shine!.No, they just impregnate half the East coast and don't pay child support, that's all.

hectis
02-11-2009, 02:15 PM
truthfully I would be more shocked if a baseball player from that era was not taking steroids then if one was. does this make Griffy the best from that era? think about it while everyone was getting better because they were juicing, he was getting worse because of age and injury like most people do

beautifulrock
02-11-2009, 02:19 PM
Griffey was the best player of the 90's, he won every gold glove that decade

hectis
02-11-2009, 02:21 PM
I think he did not take anything either, think about this if he did take something he have close to 1000 home runs

THE W
02-11-2009, 02:26 PM
Baseball Taking A Backseat To Basketball? I Dont Believe That No One Gives A Shit About Basketball Till The Playoffs Besides Hardcore Basketball Fans.

same can be said about baseball.

im not anti-baseball. i actually cant get into basketball anymore. once jordan retired, i lost interest.

im not trying to get into an argument about which sport is better. thats totally subjective and arguing over subjective things is pointless. im saying that football and basketball are more popular than baseball these days.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-11-2009, 02:47 PM
I dont agree that basketball is more popular tho.

The World Series and the Baseball all star game are much bigger deals than the Finals and the Nba all star.

I just don't agree with that at all.

baby jesus
02-11-2009, 03:48 PM
I Wasnt Arguing If Baseball Or Basketball Are Better I'm Saying I Find It Hard To Believe Basketball Is The More Popular Sport. I'm Actually Pretty Sure Baseball Is Bigger Then Basketball With Hockey A Far Fourth.

beautifulrock
02-11-2009, 05:07 PM
Baseball makes more money than any other sport, fact, it's impossible to compete with a 162 game schedule plus playoffs

Dirty Knowledge
02-12-2009, 12:17 PM
I dont agree that basketball is more popular tho.

The World Series and the Baseball all star game are much bigger deals than the Finals and the Nba all star.

I just don't agree with that at all.

Hell naw basketball isn't as good. I mean in the NBA you have your big draws. But mostly it's a front-running atmopshere. That's basically the same with all sports. Fair-weather/front-running hoes.
But anyway, I think it's NFL on top and after that I don't give a fuck who makes more money but in popularity terms it's FOOTBALL, and then everything else.
But if gay fanboy MLB fans keep making a big deal over steroids, then you can see this game go down the drain in the next 15 years.
In my opinion, steroids should be made legal in all sports. But those who do them get an asterisk, those who don't, don't. Then we'll know who the real warriors are. They're gonna do it anyway. It's not like steroids is a *NEW* problem.

Polocash7
02-12-2009, 03:01 PM
Baseball will be ok. Like someone said,there's nothing to compete w/it in the summer. Clean it up is a good idea for so many reasons. Anyone thinking only baseball players are the only ones juicing is crazy

TrueDciple
02-12-2009, 03:14 PM
No, they just impregnate half the East coast and don't pay child support, that's all.

Sorry but that has nothing to do with the game or the league. You must be a chick, Poof! Be gone!

THE W
02-14-2009, 11:16 PM
Baseball will be ok. Like someone said,there's nothing to compete w/it in the summer. Clean it up is a good idea for so many reasons. Anyone thinking only baseball players are the only ones juicing is crazy
true, there is no other game to compete with it in the summer since all the other sports are in the off season other than basketball which is in the post season by then.

baseball isnt the only sport where people are juicing. the thing is, nobody cares if these players are on the junk, they just wanna see homeruns and big arms. the only people who are complaining are purests.

its gonna get worse for baseball as cleaning up the game is gonna make it unappealing to anyone but die hard fans.

beautifulrock
02-14-2009, 11:36 PM
Sorry but that has nothing to do with the game or the league. You must be a chick, Poof! Be gone!you just said, "Poof! Be Gone!" and I'm the chick?

beautifulrock
02-14-2009, 11:43 PM
true, there is no other game to compete with it in the summer since all the other sports are in the off season other than basketball which is in the post season by then.

baseball isnt the only sport where people are juicing. the thing is, nobody cares if these players are on the junk, they just wanna see homeruns and big arms. the only people who are complaining are purests.

its gonna get worse for baseball as cleaning up the game is gonna make it unappealing to anyone but die hard fans.Once again, and I really don't think you understand this, is that baseball rules are always changing to make it a fair battle between pitching and hitting. They will either

A. Lower the mound, this will decrease the advantage of the pitcher making it harder for him to throw up in the zone

B. Move the mound back, this will give hitters an extra hundredth of a second or so reaction time

C. Change the composition of the ball, make it harder, easier to hit out.

D. Decrease the strikezone, take away the high strike to favor the hitter

E. Make ballparks smaller, which they are doing.


All of these rules have been changed or altered in one way or another throughout the history of the game. Baseball survives.

THE W
02-15-2009, 10:01 AM
and despite these alterations you didnt have a bunch of players hitting 50 homeruns a year and putting 100 on the gun until the juice era. it was extremely rare until then.

the game was going to die after the 94 work stoppage if not for roids and the commisoner knew that which is why he let it go and would've continued to let it go if canseco didnt put out his book exposing everybody.

beautifulrock
02-15-2009, 10:18 AM
First of all, Steroids doesn't make you pitch faster, and pitchers that pitch over 100 are a freak of nature, see Nolan Ryan, Rob Dibble. If you think there is more than 3 pitchers out there right now, that could throw over 100, you're crazy.



Babe Ruth, Jimmy Fox, Ty Cobb, Ralph Kiner, Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, Hank Aaaron, Hack Wilson, Hank Greenberg, Johnny Mize, Willie Mays, George Foster, Cecil Fielder

All hit 50 home runs before anybody knew what steroids was

Now, there are 3 guys I think we can rule out having ever taken steroids from this era.

Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, David Ortiz....these are naturally big guys who would get absolutely no benefit from taking steroids and have tested clean.

That leaves

Alex Rodriguez
Andruw Jones
Jim Thome
Barry Bonds
Sammy Sosa
Luis Gonzalez
Mark Mcgwire
Greg Vaughn
Brady Anderson
Albert Belle

The ones in bold are confirmed steroid users, although I think a case could be made for the rest. So what are we talking about here? Half a dozen guys out of thousands that improved enough to get headlines? You think the game is ruined because of that? Baseball survives. It survived the 1919 black sox scandal, two World Wars, the great depression, several strikes, most recently in 1994 that called off the world series, 9-11, and it will now move past a steroid scandal.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-15-2009, 10:30 AM
Are you sure Belle was a roid user???

it wouldnt surprise me cuz he got caught with a corked bat.

But guys back in the days used to use 'greenies' which were methanphetamines. Read the Book Ball Four by Jim Bouton.

Baseball is the only game were cheating has been prevelant thruout. its history. From corked bats, to scuffed balls, vaseline, spitballs, greenies, and now steroids.

altho i think roids has had the biggest effect, gaylord perry was notorious for his spitball so its funny where they draw the line.

beautifulrock
02-15-2009, 10:34 AM
Are you sure Belle was a roid user???

it wouldnt surprise me cuz he got caught with a corked bat.

But guys back in the days used to use 'greenies' which were methanphetamines. Read the Book Ball Four by Jim Bouton.

Baseball is the only game were cheating has been prevelant thruout. its history. From corked bats, to scuffed balls, vaseline, spitballs, greenies, and now steroids.

altho i think roids has had the biggest effect, gaylord perry was notorious for his spitball so its funny where they draw the line.
Belle was in the Mitchell report and in Jose Canseco's book, plus just look at his attitude, dude was a cheater.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-15-2009, 10:58 AM
makes sense. there are some notorious stories about Belle locally like when he chased a couple of kids across the city because they egged his house on halloween.

beautifulrock
02-15-2009, 11:09 AM
makes sense. there are some notorious stories about Belle locally like when he chased a couple of kids across the city because they egged his house on halloween.my fav belle memories are him having somebody climb through the roof and replace his bat from the Umpires locker room, and when he knocked Fernando Vina the fuck out.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-15-2009, 11:13 AM
yea, t hat was brutal, but I love having him on our team in 95. That team was badass, other teams feared us, not cuz we had a murderers row, but because they actually were afraid of our guys.

Jason Grimsley was the guy who went thru the ceiling.

But it was great when after the Red Sox asked to confiscate his bat before he came up to hit, he hit ahomerun than flexed and pointed at there dugout.....I loved that team. One of the all time greatest ever.

Its too bad the umps gave Glavine 5 inches off the outside part of the plate in the world series

beautifulrock
02-15-2009, 11:22 AM
I know that was a shortened season, 144 games, and you guys won 100

Olive Oil Goombah
02-15-2009, 11:24 AM
damn right.

Kenny Lofton
Omar Vizquel
Carlos Baerga
Albert Belle
Eddie Murray
Jim Thome
Manny Ramirez
Paul Sorrento
Sandy Alomar Jr.

wut a lineup

THE W
02-15-2009, 01:13 PM
First of all, Steroids doesn't make you pitch faster, and pitchers that pitch over 100 are a freak of nature, see Nolan Ryan, Rob Dibble. If you think there is more than 3 pitchers out there right now, that could throw over 100, you're crazy.



Babe Ruth, Jimmy Fox, Ty Cobb, Ralph Kiner, Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, Hank Aaaron, Hack Wilson, Hank Greenberg, Johnny Mize, Willie Mays, George Foster, Cecil Fielder

All hit 50 home runs before anybody knew what steroids was

Now, there are 3 guys I think we can rule out having ever taken steroids from this era.

Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, David Ortiz....these are naturally big guys who would get absolutely no benefit from taking steroids and have tested clean.

That leaves

Alex Rodriguez
Andruw Jones
Jim Thome
Barry Bonds
Sammy Sosa
Luis Gonzalez
Mark Mcgwire
Greg Vaughn
Brady Anderson
Albert Belle

The ones in bold are confirmed steroid users, although I think a case could be made for the rest. So what are we talking about here? Half a dozen guys out of thousands that improved enough to get headlines? You think the game is ruined because of that? Baseball survives. It survived the 1919 black sox scandal, two World Wars, the great depression, several strikes, most recently in 1994 that called off the world series, 9-11, and it will now move past a steroid scandal.
how many times did those players hit 50 homers in their careers?

you named the players that got caught, who knows how many others were using? those players you highlighted were on average hitting 30 to 40 homers than they start using and they started threatening 60 every year. hell sammy sosa hit 60 4 years in a row.

bottomline, without roids they dont survive the 94 work stoppage and baseball goes the way of hockey, tennis, and golf into nicheville. for better or for worse steroids has kept the game alive.

this isnt back in the days when the NFL and NBA were young leagues and baseball was the only thing going in sports. of course it was gonna survive the black sox, world wars, and few strikes. you think people were gonna abandon baseball to watch tennis?....golf?

beautifulrock
02-15-2009, 01:22 PM
how many times did those players hit 50 homers in their careers?

you named the players that got caught, who knows how many others were using? those players you highlighted were on average hitting 30 to 40 homers than they start using and they started threatening 60 every year. hell sammy sosa hit 60 4 years in a row.

bottomline, without roids they dont survive the 94 work stoppage and baseball goes the way of hockey, tennis, and golf into nicheville. for better or for worse steroids has kept the game alive.

this isnt back in the days when the NFL and NBA were young leagues and baseball was the only thing going in sports. of course it was gonna survive the black sox, world wars, and few strikes. you think people were gonna abandon baseball to watch tennis?....golf?
You think if the steroid era hadn't happened, the owners would have just given up and folded the league? After 100+ years of history? You think it would be dead right now? Really?

THE W
02-15-2009, 01:28 PM
bad choice of words. i dont know why im using the word "survive".

what i am trying to say, and what i said in my initial post on this discussion, is that baseball would've ended up like hockey, golf, and tennis, as niche sports.

as i said in my initial post, baseball will never become extinct because its been around for too long and has too much history.

beautifulrock
02-15-2009, 01:33 PM
ok, I get it, you're saying baseball would drop several levels in popularity. i guess that could be true, but baseball is one of those sports that's all about special moments and situations, and they are constantly being created. Literally every year you see about a dozen things that never happened before in the history of the game. And that's what is so special about it to me, more than any other sport, is the history.

TrueDciple
02-16-2009, 01:21 AM
you just said, "Poof! Be Gone!" and I'm the chick?

Yup! I said it. But lets not make this a back and forth thing. If it makes you feel better, fine i was wrong you were right, Feel special and have a good night!.

BRONZBODY
02-17-2009, 11:51 PM
as long as griffey dosent come out and say he did them...i wont hang myself....he should have been the true new homerun king...but injuries happen when u play hard...and age too

sdeblasi
02-18-2009, 04:55 PM
i actually dont blame him for taking roids when he did....it was so common at the time and plyers just took them to keep up with everyone else who the fuck cares anymore