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View Full Version : Chauncey Billups is Overrated


Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-15-2009, 08:11 PM
I was just thinking about Chauncey Billups, and he is overrated. Especially this year. All-star? Give me a break

Now, don't get me wrong, he is a decent ballplayer, but he isn't as valuable as people make him seem.

First of all, we was never that great and got moved around a whole lot until he joined Detroit. DT was a team with a great attitude and a great SYSTEM, where the sum of the parts was greater than the individual. Now Chauncey was a vital part of that system, but he benefited from that system more than it benefited from him.

THEN, this year, he got traded to Denver, and now Denver is much better than last year and Detroit is much worse.

I would argue that Allen Iverson is a bigger reason for both than Chauncey. Detroit was falling off last year with Chauncey, as their core was getting older and the rest of the east was getting better. I would attribute their doing horrible this season more to adding AI than losing Chauncey. AI didn't fit their team-first system and has totally fucked up rotations and their core is another year older, more fucked up, and knows that management is thinking about 2010.

As far as the Nuggets, I will admit that Chauncey makes them somewhat better, but I think that LOSING iverson and Carmello's progression as a player is what really makes them better.

With Iverson gone, the Nuggets have become more of a team, and don't have 2 stars who dominate the ball. BUT, if you look at Carmello's numbers, he is shooting the 3 much better than last year and actually scores less and takes less shots than last year. He is a young kid who is figuring his shit out.

SO TO SUMMARIZE

Detroit is WORSE, mainly for adding AI and an aging core. Losing Chauncey is secondary.

DV is BETTER, mainly for losing AI and the progression of Carmello. Adding Chauncey is secondary.

Therefore, Chauncey Billups is overrated and probably doesn't deserve to be an all-star.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-15-2009, 08:42 PM
I disagree. I think he is rated accurately.

I myself underrated him until this year after Detroit totally collapsed and he brought stability to the Nuggets.

He knows how to run a team, can hit shots and plays great defense and is physical.

He is not a GREAT player, and he isn't a perenniel All Star, but he is a very good player, and I think he deserved to make the team this year and in years past.

Look how shitty Rip is playing in Detroit. Its not necessarily the system, its the guy running the system, and i think thats what it was in Detroit.

b-dolo
02-16-2009, 07:13 PM
what about kobe, is he overrated? he is a the best scorer in the nba, buts he does not rebound or get assist, and is above average defender. if he played for
utah or somewhere like,that he would'nt get have the attention he does

beautifulrock
02-16-2009, 07:20 PM
based on the records of the teams, Billups is certainly more valuable than Iverson

hectis
02-16-2009, 07:24 PM
based on the records of the teams, Billups is certainly more valuable than Iverson


nuff said

Olive Oil Goombah
02-16-2009, 07:27 PM
what about kobe, is he overrated? he is a the best scorer in the nba, buts he does not rebound or get assist, and is above average defender. if he played for
utah or somewhere like,that he would'nt get have the attention he does

Kobe is not overrated. He is a great player and the closest thing to Jordan since Jordan left.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-16-2009, 07:28 PM
Allen Iverson is a cancer to any talented team that relies on execution and sets.

My point is that Iverson's presence, or lack there of, combined with Detroit's aging core and the evolution of a more efficient Carmello Anthony, are bigger determinants of success than Chauncey Billups presence, or lack there of.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-16-2009, 07:44 PM
Ok, i see where you are going, and I agree with that, but I think its half and half. Equally its Iverson being a cancer and Billups being an All Star caliber PG, which is the most important position on the court.

beautifulrock
02-16-2009, 07:52 PM
The only stat that matters is a 2.94 Assist to Turnover ratio which is 11th in the league.

Overrated? Hardly.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-16-2009, 08:06 PM
The only stat that matters is a 2.94 Assist to Turnover ratio which is 11th in the league.

Overrated? Hardly.

Stats don't tell the entire story, and A/T ratio is hardly the only stat that matters.

Look at the 10 players ahead of him. Only one is an all-star, although cases could be made for half of them.

That means he makes good decisions. It does not make him an all-star

I am not saying that he isn't a good, solid player.

But Carmello Anthony's improvement and losing Iverson has more to with Denver's turnaround than Chauncey.

Just as aging, the addition of AI, and the message from management has a lot more to do with the decline of DT than the loss of Chauncey.

He is good but overrated.




But he is not an all-star.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-16-2009, 08:20 PM
I thought that whole Pistons team was overrated for a few of there final years cuz they were getting old and none of those guys were true superstars.

But I think Chauncey was the best player on that team. I used to think it was Rip.

thats why i say he's not overrated. You cannot underestimate the value of a guy who knows how to run an offense and make guys around him better.

beautifulrock
02-16-2009, 08:21 PM
Stats don't tell the entire story, and A/T ratio is hardly the only stat that matters.




I know you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Ask anybody, when it comes to Point Guards, the only stat that matters is assist to turnover ratio. Well, that and number of rings, which he has one.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-16-2009, 08:23 PM
its not that simple brock

and rings really dont say anything. Derek Fisher has alot more rings than Stockton, but STockton was the better PG and the hall of famer.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-16-2009, 08:29 PM
I know you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Ask anybody, when it comes to Point Guards, the only stat that matters is assist to turnover ratio. Well, that and number of rings, which he has one.

I find your condescending attitude endearing, but I am assuming you never played organized basketball, and as in all subjects, you think you are more intelligent than you are.

Ask anybody. Intangibles, production, chemistry and leadership matter in determining the quality of a point guard. Calderon leads the league in assist to turnover, and he is good, but he is not the best point guard in the league. Baron Davis is top 5, and he is having a horrible year.

Different styles of point guards can be successful on different teams and in different systems.

I know more about sports than you, b-rock. How do you love that?

You know more about poll-creation and being doughy, but you can take your condescending, pseudo-intellect to KTL.

beautifulrock
02-16-2009, 08:41 PM
Whenever someone loses a philosophical argument and they know it, they try to make a list of things the other person forgot to say, and almost always that list includes things that mean nothing at all, like for instance intangibles. Intangibles is just a fancy word that dumb people use because it doesn't mean anything at all, but sounds like it does. Now don't be an angry little boy and start name calling, but the other things you pointed out, are all qualities of Chauncey Billups. So in essence, you proved your own original theory wrong, didn't you?

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-16-2009, 09:03 PM
Whenever someone loses a philosophical argument and they know it, they try to make a list of things the other person forgot to say, and almost always that list includes things that mean nothing at all, like for instance intangibles. Intangibles is just a fancy word that dumb people use because it doesn't mean anything at all, but sounds like it does. Now don't be an angry little boy and start name calling, but the other things you pointed out, are all qualities of Chauncey Billups. So in essence, you proved your own original theory wrong, didn't you?

Do you see the irony and contradictions of your above post?

Chauncey billups is not one of the best 12 players in the west.

However, if we are specifically talking about assist to turnover ratio, look at the top 10 players in assist to turnover ratio:

1 Jose Calderon, TOR
2 Jason Kidd, DAL
3 Chris Paul, NOR
4 Derek Fisher, LAL
5 Baron Davis, LAC
6 Rajon Rondo, BOS
7 Brevin Knight, UTH
8 Delonte West, CLE
9 Mike Bibby, ATL 51
Steve Blake, POR

They are not, in that order, the best 10 point guards in the league. SO you are telling me you would rather have Jason Kidd run your team then Chris Paul?

Are you telling me you want Baron Davis from this year running your team?

You know little about basketball. You lose.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-16-2009, 09:08 PM
BIllups is a top ten PG and has been for the past 5-7 years. SOme of those years he has been top 5.

he's solid. I think cuz he won a ring he gets alot more praise.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-16-2009, 09:10 PM
I am talking about this year.

THIS YEAR, chauncey billups is overrated.

beautifulrock
02-16-2009, 09:59 PM
Do you see the irony and contradictions of your above post?

Chauncey billups is not one of the best 12 players in the west.

However, if we are specifically talking about assist to turnover ratio, look at the top 10 players in assist to turnover ratio:

1 Jose Calderon, TOR
2 Jason Kidd, DAL
3 Chris Paul, NOR
4  Derek Fisher, LAL
5 Baron Davis, LAC
6 Rajon Rondo, BOS
7 Brevin Knight, UTH
8  Delonte West, CLE
9 Mike Bibby, ATL 51
Steve Blake, POR

They are not, in that order, the best 10 point guards in the league. SO you are telling me you would rather have Jason Kidd run your team then Chris Paul?

Are you telling me you want Baron Davis from this year running your team?

You know little about basketball. You lose.
Now you're just putting words in my mouth, which once again is a side of a loser in a philosophical argument. The difference between the A/T ratio between Davis and Billups is negligible, I just said that Billups is one of the top on the list. I never said anything about that making him better or worse than anybody in the league, but mostly I just said it to get you to list the things that you think makes up a good point guard, which you did, and all of which Chauncey Billups has in Spades. If you wanted the three best point guards in the west, who would you take? I know personally i would go with Paul, Nash, then Billups right now, this season. But what do i know? According to you I know nothing about sports, even though I've been first in my fantasy league almost all year.

Rode Block
02-16-2009, 11:07 PM
Intangibles is a part of the game that stat nerds will never understand. Even though I love using statistics to prove my points, I realize that basketball is a game full of tangibles AND intangibles. Which is why I try to watch the game and not just look at box scores.

I don't think Billups is a top 3 PG in the west, let alone the league. I'd take Nash, Paul, Parker, and Deron Williams over him any day. Billups would BARELY crack my top 5 PG's in the West.

Parker is so underrated, IMO. He shoots at almost 50% and he is one of the most creative PG's in the game when it comes to finding ways to score.

beautifulrock
02-16-2009, 11:13 PM
Intangibles is a part of the game that stat nerds will never understand. Even though I love using statistics to prove my points, I realize that basketball is a game full of tangibles AND intangibles. Which is why I try to watch the game and not just look at box scores.

I don't think Billups is a top 3 PG in the west, let alone the league. I'd take Nash, Paul, Parker, and Deron Williams over him any day. Billups would BARELY crack my top 5 PG's in the West.

Parker is so underrated, IMO. He shoots at almost 50% and he is one of the most creative PG's in the game when it comes to finding ways to score.
plus he's bangin' Eva Longoria, Billups is clutch as hell, you take Parker, and my team will host the Trophy when Chauncey nails a 25 footer at the horn.

beautifulrock
02-16-2009, 11:15 PM
obviously I'm joking cuz Parker has like 9 rings

Rode Block
02-16-2009, 11:18 PM
I'd take Parker driving to the lane over Billups pulling up for a 20 ft. jumper any day of the week.

baby jesus
02-17-2009, 09:14 AM
To Me Billups Is A Player That Never Really Impresses You Watching Him Like Oh Shit Hes A Top Pg In League But He Does All The Right Things To Help A Team Win. Which Is The True Way To Judge A Point Guard.

But I Agree That Carmelo Really Coming Into His Own And Iverson Destroying Teams Has Alot To Do With The Two Teams Peformances.

So Should He Be An Allstar This Year It Depends How You Judge It If You Want The Stat Compilers Then Definitely Not.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-17-2009, 09:17 AM
well, lets name the PGs out west.

Billups, Parker, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Nash, Davis, Kidd

Dirty Knowledge
02-24-2009, 10:54 PM
Billups is a straight up warrior in this league.
I don't think he's over-rated at all.
He doesn't impress with the numbers. But he's a proven winner and am I wrong or was he Finals MVP versus L.A.?

whitey
02-26-2009, 12:16 AM
billups is definatly not overrated.

look at the pistons now. that team won championships, and all those guys made allstar teams, and you take basically one player away and they are fucking sucking cock. theyve lost 8 in a row for the first time since 94-95. thats bad.

HANZO
02-26-2009, 03:58 PM
Billup's is far from overrated. he is a very clever PG, good passer, can post up and has a good shot. all of this is overshadowed by his leadership on the court, which is what made that Detroit team so consistent. you jus have to look at the difference between Denver and Detroit since the trade.

Chris Paul and Deron Williams are probably the best PG's in the league right now. but for a playoff game i would pick Parker over the 2, cause he jus goes crazy once in the playoffs.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-26-2009, 03:59 PM
Billups is over-rated.

He went from being under-rated to being over-rated.

People's reaction to THIS YEAR is evidence.

The Pistons were on there way down before he left.

The Nuggets are Melo's team and they lost Iverson. Addition by subtraction.

That being said, Chauncey is still a good point guard.

But he is overrated.

beautifulrock
02-26-2009, 04:04 PM
just shut up you stupid faggot. nobody cares

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-26-2009, 04:08 PM
just shut up you stupid faggot. nobody cares

People are still responding to the thread.

Stop being upset because you do not know much about basketball beyond superficial statistics.

You don't know how to have a conversation that is completely subjective and opinion-based, because you are too emotional and pseudo-intellectual, and at least in this case, inexperienced.

But youre awesome at fantasy, right?

You are projecting your anger at nobody picking the doughy kid at a recess at me.

Calm down.

whitey
02-26-2009, 04:16 PM
Billups is over-rated.

He went from being under-rated to being over-rated.

People's reaction to THIS YEAR is evidence.

The Pistons were on there way down before he left.

The Nuggets are Melo's team and they lost Iverson. Addition by subtraction.

That being said, Chauncey is still a good point guard.

But he is overrated.

nope no way.


if it was all iverson than denver would not have been a playoff team with AI. because if that was the case, detriot, in a weaker conference would still be a playoff team. they clearly are not.

the mitigating factor in all this is billups, NOT AI.

its billups leaving that made them bad, not iverson joining. and its billups joining the nuggets that made them better than they were. they were a deecent team before AI and with AI, but they were never going to get better than that, until they added chauncy. now they are a better team than they were pre-AI and during AI times.

beautifulrock
02-26-2009, 04:16 PM
90% of the people who posted in this thread think you're a moron

deal with that.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-26-2009, 04:21 PM
90% of the people who posted in this thread think you're a moron

deal with that.

Yes, but if you want to get into statistics, I am willing to bet that %95 of people on this forum don't know shit about sports, and probably have never played organized basketball.

That being said, I don't think they necessarily think I'm a moron, they just happen to disagree.

That is what discussion is all about.

I know it hurts you when people disagree with your pseudo-informed opinions, but such is life.

Regardless,

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-26-2009, 04:24 PM
nope no way.


if it was all iverson than denver would not have been a playoff team with AI. because if that was the case, detriot, in a weaker conference would still be a playoff team. they clearly are not.

the mitigating factor in all this is billups, NOT AI.

its billups leaving that made them bad, not iverson joining. and its billups joining the nuggets that made them better than they were. they were a deecent team before AI and with AI, but they were never going to get better than that, until they added chauncy. now they are a better team than they were pre-AI and during AI times.

The pistons were old and irrelevant in the East WITH Billups.

Iverson leaving and Melo maturing were the most important reasons the Nuggets have improved.

I am not denying that BIllups is a factor in both situations, but he is not the main factor, and he is not a basketball savior.

beautifulrock
02-26-2009, 04:31 PM
no, they don't disagree, they think you're a moron. Because anybody who tries this hard to prove something this pointless, is a moron.


Now write another 4-5 sentences calling me whatever you want so you feel better about the fact you're a moron. I'll wait.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-26-2009, 04:34 PM
no, they don't disagree, they think you're a moron. Because anybody who tries this hard to prove something this pointless, is a moron.


Now write another 4-5 sentences calling me whatever you want so you feel better about the fact you're a moron. I'll wait.

I am not trying hard. Also, you cannot prove an opinion. I am voicing a less-represented viewpoint for the sake of healthy debate.

I don't understand why you are getting so emotional about it, but it is cute.

If you want, you can PM me and I will teach you about sports.

beautifulrock
02-26-2009, 04:36 PM
I am not trying hard. Also, you cannot prove an opinion. I am voicing a less-represented viewpoint for the sake of healthy debate.

I don't understand why you are getting so emotional about it, but it is cute.

If you want, you can PM me and I will teach you about sports.
I played and coached organized ball, so teach away.

beautifulrock
02-26-2009, 04:37 PM
Why does everybody from Kentucky think they have the patent on the pick and roll?

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-26-2009, 04:39 PM
I, personally, invented the pick n' roll on my middle school team in 1994.

You're welcome.

Mumm Ra
02-26-2009, 05:48 PM
The pistons were old and irrelevant in the East WITH Billups.


how could you possibly figure that?
They made it to I-dont-even-know how many eastern and NBA finals in a row with him and won the championship in that time

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-26-2009, 05:58 PM
how could you possibly figure that?
They made it to I-dont-even-know how many eastern and NBA finals in a row with him and won the championship in that time

They were a great team, don't get me wrong.

But as of last year, the Celtics and the Cavs were clearly the class of the East.

The Pistons, even with Billups, were not going to be serious contenders this year.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-26-2009, 09:52 PM
now that i think of it, I do think Billups is slightly overrated. He hits shots but he's not a great player or anything.

he's just a solid player and an occasional all-star because he plays on a good team. He probably does have a better all around game than most but he doesnt really do any 1 thing great.

He's just solid. Like a guy like Kenny Smith was for the Rockets

Mumm Ra
02-27-2009, 05:56 AM
They were a great team, don't get me wrong.

But as of last year, the Celtics and the Cavs were clearly the class of the East.

The Pistons, even with Billups, were not going to be serious contenders this year.
well yeah even I would agree with that
but that's not because of billups, and obviously he isn't the kind of player to carry a team on his own
the pistons in general just started getting old after that championship and losing big ben didn't help

anywayz unfortunately I haven't seen very much of billups at all this year but I saw every game as a piston, he's good I dunno about overrated

whitey
03-02-2009, 07:00 PM
espn marc stiens power rankings for this week...the nuggets...

http://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/den.gif 6 (6) Nuggets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=den) 39-21 No excuse for not having Furious George on our weekend list of COY contenders. Billups gets most of the credit for saving the post-Camby Nuggets, but with Melo's missing 15 games, Coach has to get some, too.

just sayin.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
03-02-2009, 07:03 PM
espn marc stiens power rankings for this week...the nuggets...

http://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/den.gif 6 (6) Nuggets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=den) 39-21 No excuse for not having Furious George on our weekend list of COY contenders. Billups gets most of the credit for saving the post-Camby Nuggets, but with Melo's missing 15 games, Coach has to get some, too.

just sayin.

Have you seen the how much the better the pistons are without AI?

They haven't looked like they were missing chauncey.

Rode Block
03-02-2009, 09:49 PM
Have you seen the how much the better the pistons are without AI?

They haven't looked like they were missing chauncey.

lol, that shit is a trip out. with AI the Pistons drop to below .500... he misses a couple games adn they beat two of the top three teams in the East.

Billups is overrated though. I already stated why. I don't even think he's a top 3 PG in the West.

whitey
03-02-2009, 10:06 PM
i dont really see how he is being overrated by anyone. no one is calling him the best pg around or anything. hes only overrated by people saying his overrated. there needs to be some major push to say hes the shit, today, in 2009, to actually be able to call him overrated. i havent really seen that or heard that. which leads to my contention that hes rated where he ought to be. a good player, not the best, but far above average, and would make most any team he played on better.

Rode Block
03-02-2009, 10:28 PM
It's just cuz people are saying that he is the MAIN reason why Pistons sucked and the Nuggets became good. When people say that then he is being overrated. Because it had a lot more to do with Iverson leaving.

Olive Oil Goombah
03-02-2009, 10:29 PM
well thats why i was saying. He is never mentioned as a top PG or MVP candidate. Everyone realizes that the Pistons were just a well oiled machine and they gave Billups credit for running that machine.

Olive Oil Goombah
03-02-2009, 10:31 PM
I mean its only 2 games. I dont think Detroit is anywhere near as good without Billups and i do think he was a huge part of that team.

I just think that AI was a bigger negative than people think...but still, Detroit with Stuckey running the show still isn't as formidable as with billups.

spiggity_ace
03-03-2009, 07:53 PM
i dont really see how he is being overrated by anyone. no one is calling him the best pg around or anything. hes only overrated by people saying his overrated. there needs to be some major push to say hes the shit, today, in 2009, to actually be able to call him overrated. i havent really seen that or heard that. which leads to my contention that hes rated where he ought to be. a good player, not the best, but far above average, and would make most any team he played on better.

exactly wut i was thinking.

Visionz
03-03-2009, 10:27 PM
lol, that shit is a trip out. with AI the Pistons drop to below .500... he misses a couple games adn they beat two of the top three teams in the East.

Billups is overrated though. I already stated why. I don't even think he's a top 3 PG in the West.Derron Williams, Chris Paul, Tony Parker....you can be 4th on the list and be a damn good player. I'm not a huge basketball fan but did one of those guys not make it because of Billups?

if so, then over-rated? yeah....in terms of making the All-Star squad. I'd say all three are a better point than billups but at the same time I don't here him compared to the others too much so I wouldn't say his general perception is one of an all-star but of a great player who's a very good leader. To me, if that is indeed his perception then no he's not over-rated.

spiggity_ace
03-03-2009, 10:29 PM
^ i duno man, it would be a hard decision for me between chauncey and steve nash.

Visionz
03-03-2009, 10:30 PM
^ i duno man, it would be a hard decision for me between chauncey and steve nash.ooops dude slipped my mind, yeah Nash too. The West has ALOt of great points. Much moreso than the east.

whitey
03-04-2009, 07:43 AM
^depends on what kind of offense you want to run with your team.

CharlesJones
03-15-2009, 12:55 PM
To the ones who are saying Chauncey is overrated, ya'll are tripping. He's a good player and he always has been. He's part of the reason why Detroit did well for several years and he's also the reason why Denver is doing real well now. Denver wasn't playing this good when Iverson was there.

Wutang36
03-15-2009, 09:24 PM
To the ones who are saying Chauncey is overrated, ya'll are tripping. He's a good player and he always has been. He's part of the reason why Detroit did well for several years and he's also the reason why Denver is doing real well now. Denver wasn't playing this good when Iverson was there.

I agree with you totally; Chauncey Billups is just a good team player and a leader it's simple as that. I am a Pistons fan, and I still don't undestand that trade. 'Cause since his departure we are playing crap basketball, and we are inconsitent. AI is a good player but he doesn't fit in this team. And he can't get everybody involved, the thing Billups was doing there for years.

CharlesJones
03-16-2009, 03:02 PM
I've been trying to tell Rode Block's dumb ass what you're saying but he can't understand what i'm talking about. Iverson trade for Chauncey was stupid and that's why i said Joe Dumars should be fired.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
03-16-2009, 03:23 PM
The Pistons made the trade to clear cap space, because they weren't going to win another championship with Chauncey, and they didn't have any cap space to make a move.

Rode Block
03-16-2009, 08:21 PM
^Charles Jones don't get that. He's too busy focusing on one bad year... He's missing out on the grand scheme of things.

This trade will make the Pistons better in the long run or at the very least it give them a chance to "re-build" without actually having to miss the playoffs and tank seasons to get high lottery picks like other teams do.

beautifulrock
04-23-2009, 12:41 AM
Chauncey Billups is in no way shape or form overrated, he went bananas in games 1 and 2

Olive Oil Goombah
04-23-2009, 04:12 PM
It looks like Iverson is the muther fucka that was overrated.

Rode Block
04-23-2009, 04:38 PM
The Hornets are broken. Chris Paul is trying to carry the entire team and the Nuggets just got too much fire power to let one guy beat them.

Billups is playing great no doubt, but I don't think he's as good as people are hyping him up to be.

M.O.D.
04-23-2009, 05:13 PM
Billups was commin off last night , i forget how many points he had but he was puttin um down

whitey
05-10-2009, 11:07 PM
i think its safe to say this thread is null and void.

chauncey is one of the two main reasons Denver is crushing right now. and have a legit chance at being the team coming out of the west.

Mumm Ra
05-11-2009, 06:19 AM
yep, billups rocks
too bad he left my home team and i got stuck with iverson, we know how that went...
i think id even root for denver to win against the pistons now if they played

whitey
05-11-2009, 09:30 AM
"he left" is a misnomer.

he got tossed out is more like it.

Mumm Ra
05-11-2009, 02:48 PM
well, yeah....whatev. dumb move.

whitey
05-11-2009, 03:26 PM
four sho.

Rode Block
05-30-2009, 12:32 AM
And Billups has another exit from a Conference Finals...Billups is overrated.

He dissapeared when the Nuggets needed him the most...This makes it his forth straight conference finals exit...Billups ain't Mr Big Shot anymore.

KZA
05-30-2009, 01:25 AM
detroit wanted less cap space so they could enter in the 2010 FA.

it was obvious that denver won the trade and AIs contract was going to expire right?

billups is not overrated.

lebron is.

SL33
05-30-2009, 07:19 AM
It looks like Iverson is the muther fucka that was overrated.

hell yeah. Iverson, marbury and all those selfish motherfuckers.

billups is not overrated, he's just too offensive in my opinion.

but i'm from europe, our game is different than yours.

half of these posters are obviously not basketball players.

Olive Oil Goombah
05-30-2009, 09:54 AM
detroit wanted less cap space so they could enter in the 2010 FA.

it was obvious that denver won the trade and AIs contract was going to expire right?

billups is not overrated.

lebron is.

Location: LA

whitey
06-06-2009, 09:32 PM
And Billups has another exit from a Conference Finals...Billups is overrated.

He dissapeared when the Nuggets needed him the most...This makes it his forth straight conference finals exit...Billups ain't Mr Big Shot anymore.


name the last time a player made it to 7 straight conference finals.


he was an integral part in all of those.





and there is no way lebron is overrated. dude who just said that clearly didnt watch that magic series. he still has some things to hone, work on his low post stuff, be a more consistent 3 point shooter, get that jorden esq fade away, crunch time free throws. but hes young, and human.

its not his fault his coaching staff was sucking a massive cock in the second half of every game. they just said fuck it, lebron do everything. that gets tirering for 1 guy. he got little to no help from anyone, going against the defensive player of the year and against a team that was shooting lights out behind the arc.

Rode Block
06-07-2009, 02:32 AM
name the last time a player made it to 7 straight conference finals.


he was an integral part in all of those.



Who cares? They don't give awards for making it to the conference finals. Atleast you get a little shitty trophy for WINNING you conference...Chauncey has done that what? 2 outta 7 times?

The fact is that he gets to conference finals and CHOKES over and over and over again. He isn't Mr. Big Shot. He dissapears when his team needs him most.

Olive Oil Goombah
06-07-2009, 08:51 AM
Chauncey is not a superstar but he can run a team as good as anyone in the NBA right now. He took a Nuggets team that was average and turned them into contenders. ANd the way Detroit fell apart without him only speaks more highly of him.

I dont think he is a choke. He has hit big shots, he has missed them.

The media acts like players make more big shots than they miss, but that is statistically untrue.

They gave LeBron this rep before he even turned fucking 24, and now all of a sudden, he hits a few, and now he can do it.

Its ridiculous how they judge players sometimes.

whitey
06-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Who cares? They don't give awards for making it to the conference finals. Atleast you get a little shitty trophy for WINNING you conference...Chauncey has done that what? 2 outta 7 times?

The fact is that he gets to conference finals and CHOKES over and over and over again. He isn't Mr. Big Shot. He dissapears when his team needs him most.


jerry west. mr.nba. was only 1 for 7 in nba finals. and hes "mr.cluth".

should he not be because he only has won as many championships as chauncey?

thatKid
06-07-2009, 11:34 AM
Point guards are slightly overrated to me. Did Jordan's bulls have a premier PG? Kobe & Shaq? Yea Kerr and Fisher made solid contributions. But who really remembers them? Talking about recent times.

I think Derrick Rose could be a legitimate "Superstar" though at the PG spot.

SL33
06-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Point guards are slightly overrated to me. Did Jordan's bulls have a premier PG? Kobe & Shaq? Yea Kerr and Fisher made solid contributions. But who really remembers them? Talking about recent times.



i can almost agree, but it's different here in europe, where playmakers are the spine of every team. american basketball become way too much physical, so there's no need for solid PG's. PG's had bigger rolls during '90, if you remember.



but hey you forgout about T. Parker.

Olive Oil Goombah
06-07-2009, 11:44 AM
Pippen played PG. ANd they are not overrated at all. You need a guy to handle the ball and get the team into its offense.

Magic, Isaiah, Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron WIlliams, Tony Parker just to name a few.

Everyone who is an NBA fan remembers Steve Kerr and Derrick Fisher, altho Kerr was not the starting PG on that Bulls team. Pippen was de facto PG.

Bottom line is, you need guys to handle the ball and run point.

SL33
06-07-2009, 11:46 AM
Pippen played PG. ANd they are not overrated at all. You need a guy to handle the ball and get the team into its offense.

Magic, Isaiah, Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron WIlliams, Tony Parker just to name a few.

Everyone who is an NBA fan remembers Steve Kerr and Derrick Fisher, altho Kerr was not the starting PG on that Bulls team. Pippen was de facto PG.

Bottom line is, you need guys to handle the ball and run point.

well said.

Fisher is underrated, i'd have him in my team anytime.

Olive Oil Goombah
06-07-2009, 11:46 AM
i can almost agree, but it's different here in europe, where playmakers are the spine of every team. american basketball become way too much physical, so there's no need for solid PG's. PG's had bigger rolls during '90, if you remember.




This is absolutely inaccurate.

PG has evolved to include bigger players...its not just the smaller guys running point anymore.

Lebron runs point most of the time for the Cavs. Whomever is handling the ball and getting a team into its sets for a team is basically the PG, and they are absolutely essential to winning a championship.

Rondo is a huge example of this.

SL33
06-07-2009, 11:51 AM
This is absolutely inaccurate.

PG has evolved to include bigger players...its not just the smaller guys running point anymore.

Lebron runs point most of the time for the Cavs. Whomever is handling the ball and getting a team into its sets for a team is basically the PG, and they are absolutely essential to winning a championship.

Rondo is a huge example of this.


no,no, you didn't understand me. what i'm trying 2 say is that the amount of classic PG's is decreasing (by that i mean a player with 180-195cm, 80-85kg).

LJ's position isn't a PG obviously, but he is practically one.

Olive Oil Goombah
06-07-2009, 11:56 AM
LeBron can play 4 positions.

There are still classic PG's tho all around the league. Rose, Parker, Rondo, Billups, Fisher, Nelson, Alston, Stuckey, Williams, Paul, Chalmers, Heinrich etc.

SL33
06-07-2009, 11:58 AM
LeBron can play 4 positions.

There are still classic PG's tho all around the league. Rose, Parker, Rondo, Billups, Fisher, Nelson, Alston, Stuckey, Williams, Paul, Chalmers, Heinrich etc.


true. you know what's the current trend on that position.

thatKid
06-07-2009, 12:29 PM
I know Tony Parker isn't overrated. Somehow, I have no idea why, forgot about the Spurs.

whitey
06-07-2009, 05:15 PM
LeBron can play 4 positions.

There are still classic PG's tho all around the league. Rose, Parker, Rondo, Billups, Fisher, Nelson, Alston, Stuckey, Williams, Paul, Chalmers, Heinrich etc.


nash.

purest point gaurd there is. although clearly on the downside of his career.

0 athletic ability when compaired with all those guys (which is a huge downside on the defensive end no doubt about it).

hes all basketball smarts, creativity, and excellent passing and ball handling, he NEEDS to be better than all those guys at that stuff or he wouldnt be able to be in the league.

Olive Oil Goombah
06-07-2009, 05:55 PM
Nash isn't slow tho...he is quick enough.

In the NBA, skills are more important anyway, and his skill is greater than most.

Rode Block
06-07-2009, 10:42 PM
Nash is quick and he's a GREAT shooter (not to mention he has amazing stamina). A guy like J-Kidd is a better example of someone who isn't athletic, but can still be effective because of his pure PG skills.

BTW Fisher isn't a pure PG. He doesn't run the offense! Kobe and Lamar are the ones who run it. Fisher's job is to play Defense and hit open 3's. That's all the Lakers need out of their PG's. Phil has never needed a true PG to win.


jerry west. mr.nba. was only 1 for 7 in nba finals. and hes "mr.cluth".


should he not be because he only has won as many championships as chauncey?

He made it to the finals 7 times...That's 5 more than Billups. And West went up against one of the most dominate teams in NBA history...Billups lost to teams that the Pistons should've beat.

Imperial1
06-26-2009, 11:02 AM
Chauncey, Melo and other nuggets players were paid to lose against the lakers. It was very obvious to me and anyone else who has played basketball and knows the game.

Imperial1