View Full Version : Interviews of Different Pioneers
03-07-2009, 03:41 AM
I am going to give you family a lil taste of interviews I am working on and interviews I have finished from www.thefoundation.com I hope you enjoy them.
This interview is with D.J. Chill Will of Doug E. Fresh and The Get Fresh crew. It is not finish but it soon will.
Troy- Alright now before you guys can put the second record together with Slick Rick he breaks out. What was that all about?
Will- Well the thing that a lot of people didn’t know was that we weren’t a group. You dig what I am saying. They are just two people that made a record together. And then later went about there business. People thought because the first time they seen us Rick was with us so we were all together. Rick wasn’t actually in the group, he was a solo artist.
Troy- So even while you guys were on the road nobody wasn’t thinking yo you guys should stay as one. Or did Rick always act ambitious to do his own thing?
Will- Well I think Rick was always ambitious to do his own thing. I think that was what he always wanted to do. It just so happened that this was a platform to get it started. And once he got it started he did what he wanted to do. Plus maybe he felt he could do it the way he wanted to do it. When you got four people with four personalities everybody is pulling different ways, but when it’s just you it’s yours. Like when he did Children’s Story it came out just like he wanted it to be.
Troy- So it is easier to say that Rick was just ambitious to do his own thing oppose to Rick and Doug had some type of serious beef which lead to their separation and no one wants to talk about.
Will- Well they really didn’t have any beef. But what I was trying to say….
Troy- No I understand what you said and it makes perfect sense and I never heard it that way. But always through the years cats would say “Yo something bad went down but don’t nobody want to talk about it.”
Will- Well like I said before I think the way I said it went down is what actually happened. But it sounds better if they said Doug and Rick had beef. Which they didn’t.
Troy- Well I am glad you said it the way you did explain that they were just two solo artist that just happened to come across something legendary.
Will- Right we just happened to say lets make a record together and we made a record together. And the thing is if Rick was with us as a group he could not have went any where because he would have been signed and stuck into this deal that we were all stuck into. But Rick had his own separate situation going on. And we never had a problem with it. I think we would have stayed together as a group if we had done that album, because after we did those two cuts that was it.
Troy- So while you guys were on the road were you trying to make that 3rd cut to go towards the album?
Will- Man Rick was actually on the record All the Way to Heaven in the very beginning stages of making it. But we never finished it.
Troy- Damn ain’t that something. So Rick was on the record why was he taken off of it?
Will- Well the record was never finished at the time. It was like if you were doing your rhymes and you weren’t feeling it you would be like, “Hold up hold up I messed up on that, run that back!” that was what was going on through that whole record with Rick. So when we were actually ready to lay everything down Rick was already gone.
Troy- So Rick actually laid down the rhymes but he wasn’t happy with his part. Damn so he could have been on All the Way to Heaven. That would have been beautiful. The song was tremendous with Doug by him self but you could only imagine greatness with Rick also included. So how did you feel about Rick’s production even though Rick wasn’t feeling his own part?
Will- No it wasn’t like he wasn’t liking it, when we were doing it we just didn’t know where the record was going. Because at the time when Rick was on there it wasn’t called All The Way To Heaven.
Troy- But the same melody and beat was there right?
Will- It was the same beat everything was the same musically but lyrically it wasn’t called All The Way to Heaven. In fact we didn’t even have a name at the time. We were sitting there making up stuff. We were trying to fall into something. But all in all what I heard with both of them was good. Certain things we were moving around with and everything started falling into place. We started adding stuff but what happen was the road came back up again and we went back on the road!
Troy- Damn, good stuff Will real good stuff.
Will- When we came back off the road we was trying to get back into that song but I think by that time Rick decided he wanted to do his own thing.
Troy- So did the three of you guys sit in that room and say listen Rick is there any way we can negotiate for you to stay here with us instead of going solo. Did anybody try and keep Slick Rick with you guys?
Will- No. Rick had gone some where, I think he went away.
Troy- Back to England?
Will- I am not sure but it was some where with his family. And it could have been England. But while he was gone we were like we are going to have to start doing stuff. But after that we found out Rick was going to do a deal with Def Jam. So we was like alright we got to move forward. I don’t think anybody wanted to go back and forth with it because we were really so far behind on the album. And see our manager was trying to get us to do an album while we were doing The Show! He was like, “Yo lets just continue on and do a whole album before we let this single out.” But we didn’t want to hear that. We were like we coming out now.
Troy- So what was your feeling when you heard Slick Ricks first album?
Will- I was happy for him because the first cut I heard was The Rulers Back and I thought that was hot.
Troy- You right it was hot.
Will- yeah so I was like Rick is out and he is doing his thing. So I was hoping he could come out and then we could come back together, kind of like what we do now. Rick do his songs we do our songs together. And we will just keep it moving like that.
Troy- What was the story with The Show and having something to do with not believing in God.
Will- Yeah people can really go places in there mind. Man we got stories like that all the time. When The Show first came out they had stories about The Show saying 6 Minutes 3 times which is 666, and they were going Oh My God, is it real! And they would say that we were asking is God real?
Troy- Man I would not have even imagined that one.
Will- Because when we said 6 minutes 6 minutes 6 minutes, Doug E. Fresh your own that just fit in the realm of beats. If he had said it one more time he would have been off beat. Or if he had said it one less time it also would have been off beat. So it just didn’t work. We were not thinking 666! And when we said Oh my God is it Real, Doug is doing the beat box and we are like Oh my God is Doug really doing it.
Troy- Right I got you.
Will- But they area saying we are saying Oh My God is God real!
Troy- Damn who said that because I never got that impression nor heard any one say that. Ain’t that something?
Will- We read it in a magazine on the road in a think L. A. And then they said in order for us to repent from all of this we came out with All the Way to Heaven.
Troy- (Troy busts out laughing.)
Will- They said it was a message to God because we did this devil worshipping record.
Troy- Damn ain’t that something.
Will- So you get all types of stories and you never no. some of these stories we be reading and it be so outrageous because we be the people living them. And I am sure some of the readers be like, “Oh my God.”
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 03:48 AM
This one is one is Coke La Rock. This in interview is finish. check it at www.thafoundation.com
Troy- So how did you get the name Coke La Rock?
Coke La Rock- Coke La Rock came about the 3rd or 4th party once we started really making an impact on everybody. Herc was like, “Coke you have to get a name!” I was like, “nah I ain’t with that.” But Herc had his name, so I thought about it but I was taught because I am getting all this paper hustling you don’t put your name out there like that. But to be honest Troy it came in a dream.
I’m tell the story and no one has ever heard the real story before. I was smoked up one night in this dream and I was hanging with cats that were getting plenty money and one night some of my people came over to the spot and said come on we going to run down to Mexico and they was paying for it. So in this dream we are in Mexico and I say to Herc where can I get some Coke from? We go into the saloon but they call Coke, La Rock! You know what I am saying they don’t say, “I got Coke.” All they would say is La Rock! I got La Rock. So one of the Mexicans that was selling in the dream really took to me because of the money I was spending. So He asked me what was my name in Spanish, I said Coke. So the next time we seen each other he said, “yo what’s up Coke La Rock, I got the La Rock!” So I was like Coke La Rock, o.k.! So when I woke up the next day I went looking for Herc and said I got my name. He said what? I said, “Coke La Rock.”
Troy- So were did the Coke part come from?
Coke La Rock- The Coke part came because as a child they use to call me Coco. As I got older I felt only the ladies could call me Coco. I couldn’t have the fellas calling me Coco.
Coke La Rock- So I chopped the Coco and had the fellas calling me Coke.
Troy- So why did they call you Coco at all?
Coke La Rock- Well I was a premature baby so I didn’t take to the regular milk so my mother had to mix it with coco. They didn’t have nestle quick and all that other stuff back then like they have now. So that is how that truly came about.
To be honest when we were all growing up no one really had their government it was nick names all over the place. Cats didn’t no your government like cats didn’t know your momma. Everybody couldn’t eat in your house. They didn’t know your mother cooked chicken on Sundays. Back then it meant something when you said this is my boy or my man. Today it is held real loosely. That’s why I use to say this is my mellow this is my fellow this is my ace king boom. This is my pride and joy, this is my boy. You know what I am saying you would die for him. Just like when I got in the game with Herc I told Herc it’s me and you against the world. That’s how we got to live. We could never be wrong amongst people but we can be wrong amongst each other. And that’s how it goes. We made it fashionable for cats to hold their heads up, and say you know what I do, I play music. See because the same money we started making off playing music was the same money cats I knew that were making coming off of 116th and 126th street in Harlem. When cats would come up after scrambling all day he might have 10 or 20 thousand on him. Our first party together Herc and I made $----. That’s when I knew right then through the law of average if I leave the drug game alone and get into this here I could settle for at least $---- a week. Compared to going to jail in the process of that other hustle! And people don’t recognize this but we killed Disco! I don’t care what anybody says.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.)
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 03:49 AM
And a little bit more from Coke La Rock
Coke La Rock- And not for nothing The Hevalo was the first Fever. As far as rapping I never wrote anything down I just told you what was going on. Also I was always strapped. That was a bad part of the game but it was a part of the game that was real, and that was to let you understand you not taking anything from us. You weren’t going to robbing us and then you see us tomorrow like its all good. We treated it like the drug game. You ain’t robbing those drug dealers and you ain’t robbing banks then go ahead with that. Because I was taught if you ain’t robbing enough to live with for the rest of your life why rob.
Troy- So let me ask you this, why did you choose to be an emcee instead of a D.J.?
Coke La Rock- I’m glad you ask that I was always a D.J. I was a D.J. first then I became an emcee. I guess they classified me that because it was so new to them that a cat was popping stuff out the mouth, and cats felt I had the gift for gab. I felt I was just talking and relaying messages and giving props to my friends and other people out in the crowd.
Troy- So lets talk about that you being the very first emcee of hip hop, who inspired you at all being that their was no one in front of you to give you a platform! Because maybe I am mistaken but was any one doing it before you that I don’t know about?
Coke La Rock- Of course not I was the first, no one was doing it in the fashion that we were doing it. But I did listen to the Last Poets.
Troy- Well that was what I meant were you inspired by say Rudy Ray Moore, Pigmeat Mark Ham, The signified monkey or those Last Poets?
Coke La Rock- Well I use to hear stuff like Signified Monkey and the other stuff you mentioned but we were not really allowed to listen to that stuff because that was what your parents played I would have to be in another room. That was like the nasty records, The Wild Man Steve and them type things. But what really got me with the rap thing was the Richard Pryor records That n----- is crazy. We use to say this little thing for my man Timmy Tim. Timmy Tim use to do this thing with the monkey routine Richard Pryor had in his show called, “little tiny feet.”
Troy- Right I remember that very well, Richard Pryor was hilarious when we were growing up. “With the tiny little feet.”
Coke La Rock- Yeah well I use to cut that in after Timmy Tim would finish his lyrics or rhymes. I would say you are listening to the sounds of Timmy Tim and then cut in with “little tiny feet.” (Troy starts laughing.) Then I would say you are listening to Clark Kent the man with Kryptonite the first Superman from the 9! Clark Kent was from the 9 and the 9 was tough in its own way. But most of the rhymes came by giving a message about us to the cat’s that was out there. One night I had to pull my gun out on some dudes because they weren’t listening to what I was saying.
Troy- What does that mean?
Coke La Rock- One night we were at the Exec playing and of course everybody was swamping Herc. Herc had about 9 cats up on the stage listening to him. So when it came time for me to play I got on the stage and being as I didn’t know any of these guys I told them know disrespect but I want you guys to step down from the stage. They looked at me and said, “yo Herc run this here!” I said yeah I hear that but fellas I am asking you to leave the stage. My name is Coke La Rock I am Herc’s partner. I am not a worker. They was like, “man f--- that! I was like o.k.” I spent around to were my back was to them, and then when I spent around again I had my three seven out and I cocked it! I said, “get off the stage or I will blow you off the stage.” So they sure enough jumped off the stage and ran and told Herc on me. So when Herc came back he asked them, “yo who pulled the gun out on ya’ll?” They turned to me and said, “him!” Herc said, “That’s my partner, what did he tell ya’ll, get off the stage, then get of the stage! Why didn’t ya’ll listen!?” That was what made me say I can’t mess with D.J.s.
Because like today everyone has that jealousy, that hate, they had it back then. Cats were getting money but still hating. That hating bothered me a great deal. Then you had claim jumpers. You read these books and everybody is telling what they did and half these cats didn’t do any of that, and that’s fact. At the same time you hear somebody discussing hip hop and they talk about Herc! And all praise due to him that’s my n-----! But when they say Herc, Herc and they don’t say Coke La Rock you was not at the beginning. And that’s how I know.
Troy- I hear you.
Coke La Rock- Because me and Herc were like Bonnie and Clyde, like any two pairs that’s how it went. You had certain guys growing up that if you don’t see this guy then you not going to see the other guy.
Troy- I know what you mean.
Coke La Rock- that’s how that really went. That was why I stayed with the hustlers and left those guys alone. It was easy because I was a G money man and I hung with G money cats. So that’s the way that went. Also stick up kids backed up off of us because we had brand new guns. Everybody else had musket rifles and little 25.’s.
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 03:51 AM
Master Ice of The Jazzy 5 is done
Troy- Alright Ice standing back and looking at Bam in the past how did he talk to these guys were he had so many people in check. And I never heard he had to put his hands on any one. Did he have a real rep for being a real killer killer back in the days before he shut it down and tried to become a peaceful man and try and lead people the right way? Was his knuckle game that tight?
Ice- I am going to tell you like this, as far as that part of him I didn’t know Bam! My older sister knew Bam. In order for me and my brother SunDance to actually get down with Bam, Bam had to come to my house because my mother wasn’t having it. We were like 16 and 17 and we had already been sneaking off. But for it to be official Bam had to come to our house and meet our mother. We knew Bam liked chocolate cake, so my mother baked a real big chocolate cake. And this is how crazy my mother is, Bam had on all white and he knocks on the door and comes in and introduces him self and my mother looks at him and says, “What you selling ice cream!” (we both laugh.) He had on all white and that was how crazy my mother was. Bam bust out laughing! He said no no. So she said come on in and sit down and let’s talk. So he started telling her what he was doing with the music and he wanted us to be with him and etc. So she pulls out the cake and he eats it and he says, “Man this cake is good.” And I guess what sealed the deal was when my sister came in. I guess Bam went to James Monroe High School because my sister went there. My sister was a tomboy and she ran Soundview projects, she use to kick everybody’s ass! (Troy busts out laughing.)
Troy- What’s her name?
Ice- Leona Heywood. She use to beat everybody’s ass in Soundview. In Monroe high school nobody messed with her. I guess she knew Bam because when she walked in my mother says to Bam let me introduce you to my oldest daughter and when he turned around his smile went to a look of, “oh my God!” She was like Bambaataa? Bambaataa? Your name is Kevin Donavon! He was like, “How you doing Leona.” She looked at my mother and said, “I know him he’s cool.” My sister said, “because he knows if anything happens to my brothers I’m looking for him.” I’m looking at my sister now saying to myself, “what the f--- is you doing!” (Troy and Ice start laughing.) Yo my sister ran with Tupac Shakur’s mother. When ever Angela Davis was in town my sister and her also run together. My sister use to date a Black Panther. But my sister was that deep into the Black power movement. My sister had rings and bracelets and she would knock a n----- out in a heart beat.
Troy- How’s she doing today?
Ice- She is sweet today. She has dreads. She has two daughters and she’s real cool.
Troy- So your mother said O.K.
Ice- She said, “Yes you have them, they are in your care.” Then Bam says, “I know you got some records around here.”
(Troy starts laughing.)
Ice- Me being dumb and naïve not even thinking I was like yeah what ever go on. My pops passed but he use to work for New York City Parks Department and every other Friday when he would get paid he would come home with a bottle of Johnny Walker Red and a bag of 45’s! My father would have everything James Brown, Bobby Bland, Funk Soul everything. So Bam raided the collection. My moms wasn’t into any James Brown she was into Nat King Cole etc. and my older sister was into her own music. And I wasn’t going in the back room messing with her stuff. So I told Bam yeah you can look. This brother was pulling stuff out and I didn’t care because I wasn’t going to start playing any James Brown songs. We go to the party and Bam is playing James Brown and that s--- was sounding good. I’m looking at him like mother f----- and he smiling like see I told you!
Troy- (Troy is smiling.) Good stuff. Alight now there comes a time where you and some of the guys are tired of battling over the mic how did the Jazzy 5 start?
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 03:53 AM
lil more or Master Ice andthe record Jazzy Sensation
Troy- How did your record Jazzy Sensation come about?
Ice- We did a couple of shows and Bam was like, “yo you guys got it together.”
Troy- So you guys had it together before Soul Sonic and Cosmic Force?
Ice- Yes as far the record is concern and if you listened to the tapes Soul Sonic didn’t really do any routines. They did a few with Globe but it wasn’t that many and it wasn’t what we were doing.
Troy- There was a time where I got the impression Bam forced them to do something after Jazzy Sensation jumped off.
Ice- Well nah I wouldn’t say he forced them
Troy- What I mean is a person that listens to their routines before Planet Rock would not expect something so high powered as Planet Rock! So when you heard Planet Rock you would be like damn where did that come from?
Ice- That’s true but I guess the reason why it worked with those 3 guys was because Globe was a decent rapper, Pow Wow was a very good rapper and Biggs was more into getting the party started and go off into the crowd or get that money at the door. So I guess Globe and Pow Wow were most likely the writers. Musically Bam liked what we did. Bam liked what everybody else did but I knew that wasn’t really Bam. Musically you go to a Bam party back in the days he would play anything from Punk Rock to Salsa to Merengue.
Troy- So how did you feel about that music that Bam was playing?
Ice- Well I had no problem with it because it exposed me to so many different flavors of music. This brother was the master of records.
Troy- I understand that but what I am referring to was Bam keeping the melody through out the night and is the crowd standing up through the whole night dancing in that circle.
Ice- That’s why it was fat, because it wasn’t just black people at his parties. It was Spanish people whites etc everybody was trying to get down.
Troy- Caucasian people would come up to Bronx River?
Ice- Yes every once and a while they would, and once we got down with Tom Silverman and them they would be up in there on the regular bases. Why do you think in its infancy Bam was the only d.j. that could play in downtown Manhattan. Somebody like Flash or Theodore couldn’t go down there because they were playing Funky Drummer or Good Times. Bam was playing Mambo Number 5. Bam would slam on Computer. Then he would play Gary Newman’s Cars. And everybody was partying to it up in Bronx River Center. But don’t get me wrong we didn’t rap to that s---. But at the same token people played what was on the radio. Bam was playing Trans Europe Express, nobody heard of that at that time. Dog a Donut by Cat Stevens, who the f--- would think to play that when it first came out! The list goes on and on. Bam was pulling s--- from every where. I’m talking African beats, anything. So it got to a point where as we would be doing a party and I would have to go up to Bam and say, yo can you play “Can’t keep my hands to my self by T S Monk or can you play Before I let you go.” Because Bam would not play anything that was being played on the radio at that time. So that is why his party’s are different from everyone else’s.
As far as The Jazzy Sensation piece we did, Bam basically called us up on a Monday and asked us do we won’t to do a record! Being as we had an hour and a half to two hours of routines we said yes! Who wouldn’t want to do a record! Bam said check this out the name of the tune you guys are using is Funky Sensation by Gwen McRae. We told Bam we were familiar with the record she put out. He said he wanted us to write some lyrics to it and hook it up also. We said no problem. He said but basically they want you to add into the routine “Can you feel it, my Funky Sensation!” We told Bam were going to change it to Jazzy Sensation, just because the name of our group was the Jazzy 5. They said they didn’t have a problem with that.
Troy- So who were they?
Ice- It was Tom Silverman and his label Tommy Boy and this was the first hip hop song they ever produced. Now as far as the rest of the song we knew we wanted to do something that was going to get everybody on the dance floor. “So all the ladies in the house, The Ladies the ladies” that was the first part of the song, which was to get everybody up. After that basically the song was routines that we use to do. We just changed key words in it. Where we did our solos, 4 bars each was a routine we use to do also. Then we ran together a couple more routines together. The solo parts we just put together because that was how we rapped. We never really had to say, “yo Freeze what’s up my mellow.” I mean we knew we wanted to do it silently. We had x number of bars to do it in. So I wouldn’t say that was a routine. But it was two routines put together and we basically knocked it out in two takes. Bam told us on a Monday and that Wednesday night we were in the studio. The crazy s--- and you not going to believe this Freeze was not there.
Troy- Word, why not?
Ice- Somebody dropped dime on Freeze and said they seen Freeze kill somebody on the subway! So they had Freeze locked up somewhere.
Ice- That’s my word. If you listen to Jazzy Sensation closely the only time you really hear his voice is when he’s doing his solos and then towards the end of the song when they let him punch in every once in a while. Also when you listen close enough his voice is little bit higher then ours. So as you now know his solo parts and the parts where he is supposed to come in and say this and that they added it in once he got out of jail. The second part of the song where it breaks down and you basically hear me talking “It’s Jazzy” they basically told me, “yo we like your voice so what we want you to do is play with the song, remember what Gwen Mcrae says in the song.” If I had it my way we would have been rapping on it. We really didn’t think it was going to be on the record. We didn’t hear the final cut before it came out. But basically they wanted me to say this and that and they would punch it in and we had fun with it. Then the next day came and Freeze put his part in. But when I heard Freeze part I told them I am not really feeling this. They said what are you talking about! I said I heard Shep Pettiones version of the Funky Sensation I am talking about the remix and he had a lot of hot sounds to it. So I told them they need to get him up in here. Our producer at the time is Arthur Baker. Little did we know that Arthur Baker would become a giant. As well as Shep Pettione who still does his mixes as well as being a giant in Rock music. I told Pettione I need that sound you have in your Funky Sensation remix and he hooked it up. So now here comes Friday and we outside the building of our projects and we listening to Mr. Magic and let me not leave this out I didn’t say anything to you about a contract right!
Ice- Yo that Friday night Mr. Magic played it. We were standing out side with all of our boys just laughing and joking and this and that and the song comes on. Everybody in the buildings of Sound View Projects is screaming, “Yo yo your song is on, Jazzy 5 is on the radio!!” Yo we are partying outside. Then your hear Mr. Magic say, “that’s the new joint by Africa Bambaataa and the Jazzy 5!” We like Africa Bambaataa and the Jazzy 5?! But we knew Bam was in charge, so we was like yo it ain’t no problem etc etc etc. Master Dee’s cousin Michael ----- worked for MCA records. And he was standing out there with us and he asked us, “So what type of contract did you guys sign? Dee was like what contract we didn’t sign any contract. He was like you guys didn’t sign a contract and the record is on the radio, oh hell no!” So Dee’s cousin called up Tommy Boy records the next day and Tommy Boy took the record off the radio in New York. But it still was on the radio on the outskirts of New York City. I am pretty sure some one was still playing it but I just didn’t know about it. So Mike told them we needed a contract before they could continue to play it. Bam signed his contract earlier and I guess Jazzy Jay signed his also. So when they finally gave us a contract I am looking at it and it said something like 5 to 10 years of 2 percent. I said hold the f--- up I go to school. Its 5 of us and they talking about we are suppose to split 2 percent! It could have been 3 years with a one year options going up to 10 years something like that. I said I ain’t signing this I am taking this to my mother. Master B didn’t want to sign it either. It might have been one or two guys that said lets sign it but as a whole we finally agreed nah man we ain’t signing this. We still did gigs but because we weren’t signed the money basically quote unquote, the money made from Jazzy Sensation was used to fund Planet Rock.
Ice- And till this day I have never seen a coin for Jazzy Sensation!
Ice- Am I bitter? Not really because the way I live my life is to Live, Love and Laugh! I can’t worry about nothing I never had. If I actually had it in my hand and you tried to take it from me I would try and kill you!!!
Troy- So Jazzy Jay didn’t get anything out of the deal.
Ice- No but I guess he ended up signing a contract with Tommy Boy Records. See because Bam was already signed to Tommy Boy but Bam couldn’t rap! But he had rap groups. And I guess he figured they down with me. I think if he did anything wrong he should have sat us down before and said look we got a chance to make a record so lets sit down and talk about contracts. And I say that meaning if he knew about. I can’t say he knew I don’t know what his intentions were. I guess he figured once we did the song we would automatically sign a contract. I know that on a couple of occasions Bee, Freeze and Les were ready to run up in Tommy Boy and the rest was not to be talked about. Deep down inside I think I can speak for all of us we all had love for Bam. When Planet Rock blew up they took off. One or two members of the group might have said yo man they could at least take us to open up for them.
Troy- Well that was the next question I was going to ask you. Do you feel Planet Rock should have been done by you guys?
Ice- Nah we would have never rapped to that. I can tell you that right now.
Troy- Well there was no real rapping on it but you guys were the most organized or talented at the time.
Ice- We had it planned our next record was going to be from another one of our routines, either going to do, “Dancing to the beat with Jazzy 5 emcee’s.” (Jackson 5 melody.) Or the “Inflation Poverty” routine. Bam always wanted us to do that.
Troy- I know what you are talking about.
Ice- Right so we had about 3 or 4 joints sitting their waiting for us. But once Planet rock came out that s--- blew up. I too thought why not allow us to open for Soul sonic at least. But when I thought about it we were not down with Tommy Boy any way. How would that look we not signed with the man but we helping the tour! So I looked at it as it isn’t meant to be. During that time I was still in school and I d.j.ed and rapped a little bit after that. But I had no problem with it. I was just happy to be apart of it.
Troy- So with the Jazzy Sensation it never played again on the radio in New York?
Ice- It might have….
Troy- I asked you that because I heard it also on the radio!
Ice- Yeah well it might have played for a week or even two weeks. But once we couldn’t come up with an agreement to the contract, it was like take it off.
Troy- So after that the only other times it was played is when you guys would perform it at parties!
Ice- Other D.j.s played it and deep down inside I can’t say it wasn’t played on radios after our decision. But somebody like Mr. Magic who didn’t give a f--- I am sure continued to play it. But like the regular radio no! But it was being promoted heavily out side of New York. I say that because Tom Silverman wasn’t stupid. He was like, “I got this record I have to make money off of it. It’s hot here in New York but they don’t have ears outside of New York.”
Troy- So how did you get wind that it was being played outside of New York?
Ice- Because we were doing shows. We would be in Philly, New Jersey, Boston and we would hear about it as well as other places. So that’s why I didn’t have any ill against Bam, because we did shows with Bam in time.
Troy- So you guys did shows with Bam what about on your own?
Ice- Well we did some with Bam but after a while Bam concentrated on Soul Sonic Force and Cosmic Force. Our D.J.s were Jazzy Jay and Red Alert. So that was who we did our shows with. So once again we did Philly, Boston, New Jersey and Connecticut on our own.
Troy- What about say Florida or Georgia?
Ice- We never really went that far but we knew our song went that far. We did shows for a bout a year and a half to 2 years but after a while it seemed as though we were black listed. Because it wasn’t like we weren’t trying to do another record.
Troy- So what gave you the impression that you guys were Black Listed?
Ice- First of all we had a hot joint but we go to a label and they would say, “Well not now!” But we listing to the stuff this label is putting out and some of it is slamming but some of it is garbage! So you trying to tell me we got a hot joint out but you don’t want to sign us. I don’t know if Silverman put the word out but I think basically because we never signed a contract with Tommy Boy we would get shot down before we got through the door. If you truly look at he rappers that came out during that time…say the Funky Four they got jerked! Most of the groups from that time got jerked.
Troy- True story, you are exactly right.
Ice- like I said I was in school and I am not any ones dummy! I know that 5 into 2 percent don’t sound right. Then you are taking travel, video, outfits and anything else out of our little 2 percent! Oh hell no!
Troy- So did any one try and negotiate that contract to try and give you a deal that was better then that 2 percent?
Ice- No but if he did I felt it would have been to late because first of all how are you going to diss me with some s--- like that. Because I am from the South Bronx I’m some ignorant mother f-----. Money I went to catholic school for 12 years I can read and write count and do math!
Troy- How did you guys get Shep Pettione on there being as that was your first record?
Ice- Pettione came with Arthur Baker and Baker was with Tommy Boy so it was a package deal for us. Tom Silverman had nothing to do with it, he just stayed in the back. He was the business man. Arthur Baker was a white brother from Boston that had some funk with him. He was the one basically playing the instruments, and I like what I heard. Sheff was so talented I think it just took him about a half an hour to do what he had to do.
Troy- So correct me if I am wrong but is this an actual instrumental or did they take the record and loop it over and over?
Ice- No they actually replayed the instruments.
Troy- So just those two guys played all the instruments involved.
Ice- Yo Arthur Baker is a bad brother. And Sheff came in and put his mark on it also. The original track might have had a drummer or a drum machine. But Arthur Baker was the one playing the instruments. Because all it was a bass line and some keys and a drum track. And then Sheff came in and did what he did and that’s when I said o.k. that’s what I am talking about. He speeded it up a little bit and added that sound that was different from the original record.
Troy- So Gwen McRae had no problem with you guys doing her record?
Ice- No and that’s the thing we never had to worry about that because we never signed any contracts. And if you look at the record Kenton Nix is the one that actually wrote the song for her.
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 03:56 AM
I never got a chance to finish this with D.L.B. of The Fearless Four but it was so good i had to put it up.
DLB - And The Treacherous 3 emcees. But then all of the other d.j.s fell off and the only one that was left was Reggie Reg. The original Reggie Reg. No disrespect to my man from The Crash Crew. But D.J. Reggie Reg was the only d.j. left. So it was Reggie Reg and The Treacherous 3.
Troy - So who was running with Reggie Reg at the time was it Crazy Eddie?
DLB - Yes Ed was one. D.J. Easy Lee at that time was in the military.
Troy - Lee was trying to tell me that he was before Ed!
DLB - He was and I can give you the lineage of that also. It was Reg and Lee when it was The Fantastic Four. Lee was one of the Fantastic Four d.j.s. then they bought in Crazy Eddie. Before Ed moved into The Grant Projects he use to live close by us on 127th street. The summer of 1978 or 79 Ed started working out with Lee and Reggie. The forth d.j. I am kind of foggy on.
Troy - That would be Dano Dee.
O.C. - Dano, Dano!
DLB - You know something, I need my ass kicked!
(Troy starts laughing.)
DLB - That was our man too.
O.C. - I forgot about Dano.
DLB - Well that was the four. And The 3 emcees were Spoonie Gee, L.A. and Kool Moe Dee.
Troy - I didn’t know it was like that, I thought The Fantastic 4 was Reg, Lee, L.A. and Moe Dee!
DLB - Well the original 3 were Moe, L.A. and Spoonie and I wanted to try and convince them to make it a foursome. Even though I was the youngest kid on the block I could do my thing. “And if ya’ll have to spot me as this is little dude or our little brother or what ever then bill me like that. But put me on because I am nice like that!”
Troy - Well I do have one tape of you rocking with them at Hoe Avenue with the Cold Crush and you took Moe’s place because he was not able to make it. But let me ask you this, you were running around as a solo emcee all this time before Mike did his thing at Celebrity Club?
DLB - Yes I went and bought my own microphone. Because just like Rakim talks about they said he was too small and he can’t do this and, “I am not going to put this little n----- on my mic yo he might mess up my microphone.” I just went and bought my own mic. So now we don’t have any more excuses dude just plug me in and let me do my thing. From that I started getting my little reputation, and that is how Tito came to know me by the time we got to JHS 43.
Troy - And these were just outside jams?
DLB - Yes right out there by 43 swimming pool and in the lot were all the Mass Transit buses parked (127th street and Amsterdam avenue.) and now they got the little night club The Cherry Lounge at or use to be. In fact Nabisco Cookie Company was right there also.
O.C. - Oh yeah I remember when we were kids we use to rob them crazy.
(All 3 of us start laughing.)
DLB – D.J. Reggie Reg use to work at the Traco warehouse which today they turned into that club thing that The Cherry lounge I think use to be at. Not to digress Mike Cee opened up the talent show. Tito already had a place that he could call home with The Fearless Four, I was the nomad. I was the dude with out a place for my mic to rest. So that was supposed to be it, we do our little show at the club and out. But through what Mike did by organizing the show I gained a friend in Tito, a brotherhood. Because that’s my n-----, he was the best man at my wedding and I was the best man at his wedding. So me and Tito would not have formed a brother hood and Tito would not have taken me back to his d.j. and say, “yo we need this kid to join the group since Mr. Troy is about to bounce.” And I have to say I would not have ended up at 55 Claremont which was O.C.’s parent’s house. The same day John Lennon was assassinated I was in O.C.s house auditioning to be the forth member of the Fearless Four. peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 03:58 AM
here goes a little bit more.
Troy - Let me ask you something guys what is your thoughts on that Moe Dee, Busy Bee battle? I have been doing these interviews now for about 7 years and more and more cats from The Bronx are saying they believe Moe rehearsed that routine long before that night!
O.C. - Who cares Moe Dee ripped his ass.
DLB - Moe did that s— that night.
Troy - How can you confirm this?
DLB - Bear in mine I was a little cat around the way so I could not go out that night my grand mother was not allowing that.
Troy - same here fam
O.C. – Darrell’s Nanny did not play.
DLB - Like I said early to you Troy that I felt the Moe Dee comment was misplaced, our work out spot was my house. Moe and all of us use to hang out at my house. Well my house was one of the houses, it was my house L.A.’s house and our man Mike Williams. It was our 3 houses on the hill that we would meet. But me and Moe and the rest of the fellas would be at my house eating Captain Crunch to like 4, 5 in the morning. And then watch Mary Tyler Moore and Jackie Gleason’s Life of Riley. That is what we would do every night. So while cats would say they sound alike, s--- we practically lived in the same house. We use to spend like every night together we were just like brothers. And I was the little brother. Moe has me by about 4 years. But we were bonding over hip hop.
Troy - Well were you at The Fever when he went at Mele Mel?
DLB - No I wasn’t, but I do know he prepared for that. But everybody knew it was coming.
Troy - Moe amazes me because on 3 different occasions I asked Moe about that night at The Fever and he will tell me each time he has nothing to say about that night as if it never happen and then he will say he has tremendous respect for Mele Mel lyrically.
DLB - Well I would say that night he had a lot of misplaced anger and aggression and a lot of misunderstanding.
Troy - What does that mean?
DLB - Thinking that somebody is thinking something about you that they don’t really think about you! But at the same time there is too much ego involved in this thing to let you know that, “nah man I got respect for you. So I think you don’t like me or you look down at me, and to let you know you can’t look down on me I got to show you my game is as tight if not tighter then yours and in fact n----- I look down on you. So I am not going to turn around and say “oh nah man I never looked down on you. I’m going to say who the f--- this n----- think he is lets go!” Only with age I have learned to avoid fights that way. “Yo n----- you looking at me. No the truth is I am not looking at you!” But the, “Yo n-----“ aspect will allow me to say “yeah and now what!”
O.C. - “yeah what the f--- you talking about!” (Troy starts laughing.)
DLB - So that’s what I think that came from that with Moe and Mel.
Troy - Do you remember those nights when you guys use to go over to O.C.’s house and all types of m.c.s and d.j.s hanging out at the house?
DLB - Oh yeah, especially when those same cats that use to hang out at O.C.’s house name is big today and I am doing something with these kids and their name is still out there and it has some weight to it or definitely more weight to it then my name has. And I tell them I am working in education so why don’t you come over with me and do this thing with the kids and I don’t hear back from them. Of course I can remember when dudes use to come to me and say, “can you put me on.” “Yo are ya’ll coming by O.C.’s house because I am going to be there.” Or when I walk into O.C.s house for practice n------ is sitting in the other room trying to get a little taste of what’s coming next from The Fearless. Peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 04:01 AM
Silver Fox of The Fantasy 3 It's your Rock
Freeze for a moment when did this situation come about when Darrell Cee allegedly took your master or beat for It’s your Rock and used it for his record. How did that go down?
Now that I don’t even know how that went down. All I know is one night we were sitting on the bench with the radio rocking and boom The Crash Crews version comes on and I am like, “Oh S---, nah nah that sounds like my joint. Turn that up!” Now I am fumming… see I know the beat, I know that music like it is imbedded in me and I know every part of it. But I don’t know how they got it. See Chico had the Master and we got it from Specific who was trying to keep it. It was a whole lot with that where we had to bum rush them with that and take our stuff. So for Darrell Cee to have access to that beat they had to go through Chico, and they had to pay him something to use it.
So you thought something was fishy with the situation?
Yeah I thought the whole thing was fishy, I blamed Chico and Larry. I was like that. I thought everybody was suspect on that. These were exact notes being played as well as the drums. I listened to the Crash Crew beat over and over again. Do you have any idea how many times I listened to my own joint? Over and over again just sitting there listening to it trying to scrutinize it and checking for any defects. So do you think I am not going to know my own music.
So did their record come out first?
No ours was first we were out months before they were out.
See this is what I got from the streets, Darrell Cee was in the studio one night and he got it from who ever in your crew that was there that night by snatching it and was in the wind! (Only one person gave me this story.)
Do you know that if I knew that then I would have tracked him down, I would have ran up in Lincoln Projects to get that from him. I was off the meter at that time, there was know way somebody was going to take my music. (Silver Fox is laughing.)
So how long did it take before you started to challenge The Crash Crew for a battle?
Soon as I heard it, but first I was so mad I was stomping through the streets. I didn’t know were they were from at that time so I challenged them over the radio. (They are from Lincoln projects in Harlem. 135th street and Lenox Avenue the direct opposite end of Harlem on the east side. 6 blocks across to the east then 10 blocks north.) I went to WHBI, 98.7 I went to BLS. When we were on with Mr. Magic I started calling them the Trash Crew! So then they started to negotiate for a battle. They got with our management because I was too pissed to talk to them my self. So my management set up the battle to be at Broadway International. There were posters all over the place called the War of 84! Now to be honest prior to that I liked their music. (Silver Fox starts laughing.) Plus they were Harlem, they were like us. In our area everything sounded alike although we had our own style. Like in the Bronx they had there own style.
Now you told me when that night came to battle the Crash Crew the other two emcees in your Crew Charlie Rock and Larry Dee didn’t want to get on the mic!
Right and that was because they really didn’t have any rhymes.
So if they didn’t have any rhymes how did the Fantasy 3 get together?
Tito came to me and said these guys wanted to make a record and they had the money. They didn’t have a name in the streets, neither one of them have ever rapped before. They didn’t know about The Fever or any other hip hop club. They were both Spanish, Charlie was from 135th and Larry was from 125th and Old Broadway. So at that time I was solo and I thought o.k. maybe I can do this because this is a stepping stone to where I want to go. So they sat down with me and I told them I would write it and I put them under my wing and started writing what was going to be It’s your Rock.
So tell me about that night of the battle.
Well we were getting paid to perform and we did our record It’s your Rock plus we were coming out with the new joint Biters in the City which was for the Crash Crew. It was packed because the whole neighborhood was there. Broadway International (146th street and Broadway.) was not that far from Grant and Manhattanville projects so we had a lot of people cheering for us. Plus O.C. was our D.J. for that night. I requested for him to be there he said sure because he was just as mad as I was about them taking our music. Fearless Four was there Treacherous 3 was up in the audience.
So who hosted the show?
Doug E. Fresh because at that time Doug was Mr. Broadway International, which was his house. I don’t know who went on first but we both performed our songs. Then it was time for the battle. Because we were the challengers we had to go first but my other two emcees didn’t want to do it. I couldn’t see chickening out.
I can’t believe they got all the way up there and they didn’t want to get on the mic.
Well they had almost a month and some change to prepare with some free style rhymes. I told them they had to write for these guys we about to see. We would rehearse in the record shop getting prepared, practicing what we were going to do and how we were going to do it.
So Charlie and Larry had rhymes that night?
They had rhymes but they couldn’t memorize them. They were more into trying to memorize dance steps for songs I’m like forget all that dancing, we can do something in unison but I ain’t trying to do no dancing on stage like we New Edition or something. See we had a lot of artistic differences and me and Charlie use to beef about that all the time.
So now you have to battle 5 emcee’s?
Yeah and I didn’t care I was like “O well, I’d rather battle and lose then not say anything and have to walk back to my hood and every other hood for that matter that I walk through, after that I would have to battle for ever!” I would never be able to live it down and that would be food for them. That’s like giving food to the sharks. (Silver Fox starts laughing.) So I got on the stage and started ripping. I knew what I was going to do and started ripping on them one by one. I got into there ass, Reggie Reg first. I did a lot of freestyle on them and a lot I wrote down specifically for them. I got on them about biting our music and just ate their asses up.
So when you finished how did they come back at you?
They didn’t! (Fox busts out laughing.)
They didn’t come back at you at all?
Nah they didn’t come back, they wanted to fight.
Yeah there was a fight, we fought right after I threw those rhymes at them.
So right after you said what you said they came right up on the stage and tried to bring it to you?
Now they didn’t come up on the stage, soon as I finished saying what I said I slammed the mic down and walked off the stage. I then started walking through the crowd saying, “what, what!!!” I walked to the back of the party because I wanted to see what they were going to do. But they wasn’t going to do nothing on the mic, they started coming at me. And I said, “oh that’s how it is going to be?” I started to pull my belt off with my Fox buckle and it was time to go to war and we started fighting. I swung my belt buckle and hit one of them in the face, I don’t really know which one. Plus I was into the martial arts and I felt no fear once it came to protecting my self. But that was how the party ended, but it wasn’t over because all hell broke loss after that. (Fox is laughing.)
So did Charlie and Larry get down with you on this fight?
Oh those boys will fight. Charlie is good too; he is into the Martial arts as well. First it was me, but then they got into it as well and then it got so crazy that we took the fight all the way outside on to the streets of Broadway and people from the party coming to hang out are throwing down too!
What about Tito, O.C. or Peso, any of the Fearless Four got down with you?
I really don’t know because so much was going on. Plus Broadway International had a balcony type thing were you can look down on to the stage. Most of all the group members were upstairs and not downstairs with the people. It probably was one of those V.I.P. type things. When the fight was over me and my people all left together feeling very victorious. The next day I went to our little social club we had called La Familia around the corner from The record shop. They gave me champagne and other pleasantries and we had a party. I heard it from Grant, Manhattanville and Douglas Projects the love for the night before! I was over joyed. Tito and the boys gave me props. Plus people seen things I didn’t see that night. But it still didn’t solve anything because they still had or music. I was so pissed off about that situation that I didn’t even want to listen to the radio because I might hear their song because it was in heavy rotation. It was like every time I turned on the radio “Crash Crew is Rocking on your Radio.” It just made me want to shoot a radio. Peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 04:02 AM
A lil more from Silver Fox
So who in your opinion was the best emcee between Moe Mel and Caz?
Mel was always the best in my eyes. Caz was second over Moe. Caz would freestyle and do things off the top of his head and talk about anybody. Let somebody try and diss him!
Well Moe would get down just like that also!
Yeah Moe would do it also but I guess it was because me and Moe didn’t get along. (Silver Fox laughs.) The one thing I liked about Moe was he was very creative. I was very impressed when he made that fast rhyme style. Then everybody was trying it.
So you and Moe was never cool? You and him would see each other many times and just keep it moving?
Yeah we would see each other many times and we lived only a few blocks from each other but we were never cool.
But back to my boys, because we will get back to Moe! Once I understood the art of rhyming I started hooking up with the cats around The Grant and Manhattanville projects as well as The Hill, (Home of the Treacherous 3 on Convent Avenue.) Such as Peso or Special K. Special K was bad, he was a real intelligent dude also. Everybody use to hang out in O.C.’s house which I was invited to also. I use to just sit up in the house and watch all these talented brothers trying to create. I remember O.C. and this brother name Reg on the bass guitar trying to make something happen putting ideas together. I would sit there and say to myself, “man this is the life.”
Special K put me on to his brother T La Rock and the both of them use to come to O.C. house along with L.A. Sunshine. They were over by Convent Avenue and they use to cut through Grant and go to O.C.’s house which was on 124th street between Broadway and Tiemann place across from Grant. I even met J.D.L. and Spoonie Gee over there. So a lot of cats use to come through to see O.C. even if it was just to hang out. But what I noticed about a lot of the guys in our area, (Harlem, West side.) they had a different style from the rest of the hip hop world at that time. A lot o f them were into the metaphors. Like,
“I am like a snow storm
and I hit you like a blizzard!”
I got you.
Stuff that will make you go ah man!
So was Moe Dee coming over to O.C. house a lot at that time?
Yeah he was coming around but he was singular. Even though he was a member of The Treacherous 3 he is like a very singular type person. He had his own frame of mind. .
What was the situation that jumped off that negative spirit between you and him?
(Silver Fox laughs’) I don’t really know but he made it known one day when I came to O.C.’s house with a young L.L., and soon as Moe seen us he wanted us to leave.
L.L. didn’t have a name in the hip hop industry just yet!
No, he hadn’t even made I Need a Beat yet. Moe was laying down a track or trying to create something and he didn’t want me and L.L. there. He didn’t know L.L. at the time so it wasn’t about him, it was about me. I was very upset but O.C. asked me kindly to leave and come back letter.
L.L. didn’t understand it, he was like, “this n----- act like he don’t know you.” I told him don’t worry about it I will deal with him later. And I have to say it did bother me, I tried to get at him on the rhyming tip but he didn’t want to see me. peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 04:04 AM
Barry Bistro jump off
story with Barry Bistro is the tell all of Crash Crew hip hop history. Bistro ain't faking no jack's here.
So what was the reason why you guys separated from Mike and Dave, because there was an alleged story going around that the brothers were not paying you guys like they were suppose to, and as a result you guys could not take it any more.
No that is not true, although we use to speculate that they bootlegged their own record we never had any proof. But the real reason they left and I say they because I wasn’t down with it, but I ultimately went because it was an offer I couldn’t pass up. The real reason the Crash Crew emcee’s left was because they thought it would make them famous!
So that is what that is all about then?
Yes that was what it was all about!
So Mike and Dave were paying like they were suppose to be paying. As far as the gate is concern!
Well I tell you this much, I made more money on High Powered Rap as far as record royalties then any record I ever made on Sugar Hill Records label.
Say word kid, because you did about 6 records with Sugar Hill Records!
I never saw a dime, not a dime not a red cent of royalty moneys from Sugar Hill Records. Today Rhino has bought the catalogue and individually we have signed up with Artist Rights People. Reggie Reg told me a lot of guys from Sugar Hill records label have signed up to it, and they sort of sued and we are now getting royalties. Its minuscule but it is still more then I ever got from Sugar Hill Records. She got those contracts in the dungeon; she got them so you would never receive a cent. As far as Mike and Dave I don’t know how far the range was as far as how it was distributed or bootlegged but our split was like 60 40 or something, and they put up all the money. When that record High Powered Rap was hot that first summer their was a couple of months were we made decent money. Especially since that was 1980. I had no complaints with that.
So do you remember the day when you guys collectively said to each other we are going this way, we are no longer dealing with Mike and Dave?
I don’t remember the exact day but I do remember saying to the fellas it was wrong and in fact when we did it we didn’t include Darrell Cee, and that was wrong also. The only people that signed the contract were the 5 emcees! I can’t remember the day but I finally agreed and that was because I didn’t want to be left behind and I wasn’t no dam soloist. And I am not trying to put it on anyone else but I definitely spoke out and said this s--- ain’t right! But it was one of those decisions you make and you ask your self is this going to make my career better going to Sugar Hill or staying with Mike and Dave.
So let me ask you this, was it not a situation were you guys were trying to negotiate first with Silvia Robinson, saying, “listen we are team. We were a team since we were little boys playing baseball. Darrell Cee and Mike and Dave must come with us.”
No…we did say Darrell Cee. But she said no because she had a bunch of D.J.s! and of course we were stupid.
Right, because you guys had plenty negotiating power.
Right we could have said, “Hell no Darrell is sighing”.
Right because after a while she would have caved in if you guys would have said you were going some were else.
Right and it was a sucker move on our part. But as far as Mike and Dave no! And I remember having conversations with Mike afterward and him saying, “You guys could have at least negotiated and told Silvia she had to buy out Mike and Dave”.
“Or this that and the other, and we (Mike and Dave.) could have gotten some money that way”! But no, Mike and Dave were never included in the package. peace
Troy L. from HARLEM,
03-07-2009, 04:06 AM
A lil bit more from Barry Bistro
here go a little bit more.
What was the deal at the Savoy Manor where there was gun shots on my tape? (Tape 73.)
Now I am treading lightly on this but the rumor is the night of the shoot out at The Savoy Bam Boo was the shooter!
O.k. but from what I got Bam Boo was the one that got shot.
He did but he was doing the shooting too. The rumor was he was there to stick us up.
I heard that, right while you guys were on stage he pulled out on ya’ll!
Yeah he was going to rob Shu Bee of his name chain at gun point. Now the rumor was that was in retaliation for what Sid did.
Dam ain’t that something.
Yes now I never confirmed this but I could never look at Don again. I don’t know if this was true and Mike and Dave said no! They were checking people at the door I don’t know how Bam Boo got in with a pistol unless he knew somebody. If he came in with Don or what ever, but he should not have gotten in with a pistol. But it’s a sour subject for me because a young kid that grew up in the projects with me who also looked up to us got shot. And you can ask Magic Dee and them because he use to hang out with them, he got shot by a ricocheted bullet and died right there on the floor. His name was Joseph Simpson, Lay Low Joe! They use to call him Lay Low Joe because he use to wear high waters like Urcle, Steve Urcle from TV. He bleed to death, EMS took too long to get there.
And he was hanging out with you guys.
Yeah it was a big night, Crash Crew playing Savoy Manor. You know who else was playing there that night? Force M.C.s, Doug E Fresh, Master Don and The Def Committee. Man I still got nightmares about that. All 5 of us were on stage and out of my peripheral vision I see somebody running and you hear POW POW POW!
So he didn’t even get a chance to say give me your chain he just start busting off!
No he started shooting with some cat…I don’t know what the f--- happen! They started shooting back and forth. He didn’t get a chance to rob Shu Bee, it was just gun fire. So I thought they were trying to shoot at us, I dropped the microphone and dived off the stage. People were every where; I dived over people, tables, what ever was in front of me. While this was going on I am looking at the shooter and he is running and shooting his way out of there. And he ran out. It was one of the scariest scenes…it was just buck wild.
I can imagine. Now the thing about this show is I have a whole 90 minute tape of the show and every one I guess preformed and you guys come on last and a couple of minutes before the tape finishes POW POW POW and the mics drop!
Well I could never confirm the rumors and nobody retaliated or nothing like that. But that was the word on the street. Mike and Dave said it wasn’t true that Don set that up. F--- that, or maybe it was a coincident. But I was very shaken up because my sister and my girl were there too. peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 04:07 AM
This is a little something from the Mikey Dee story
Let’s talk about that night at the New Music Seminar when you and Mele Mel went head up!
Mantronix from Sleeping Bag Records told the owner Will Socolov that they should enter me in the New Music Seminar competition because I was a battle rapper which is how he found me.
So I had to go through the preliminaries and battle this cat name Mr. X who was from Queens like me. He had a record out at the time were he says “you know I drink Old Gold.” I dusted him off in the first round. The next day it seemed like I had to go against every one that was there. It was like 40 different rappers there. You had King Sun, Bango from Cleveland and he was ill. A lot of emcees were there even M.C. Search. So they just paired everybody up. Big Daddy Kane was there too but he wasn’t in the actual contest.
What about Just Ice?
Nah he wasn’t there, even though he was on the label he wasn’t there and he had a real problem too with how that situation went down with me and Mel.
Yeah it was crazy I had to tell Just Ice to chill and let that go. Just Ice felt that whole situation was f---ed up. See me and Mele Mel wasn’t even suppose to battle. Bango was the last dude that I battled. After I beat Bango that made me the champion for 1988. Mele Mel was the champion from 1987 so the only thing we were suppose to do was a demonstration which was me and him perform together!
But Mele Mel turned the s--- into a battle and that was because he didn’t like the way it went down or what ever. Plus he felt I was a young n----- from Queens, this that and the other. Blazy blah.
So who did he want to win if he didn’t want you to win?
I don’t know but you know Mel he was walking around with that chip on his shoulder. So he felt that he deserved that Belt. So he turned it into a battle.
So lets take this slow, you took out X and Bango what happen to the other guys like Search and etc?
Well I forgot who knocked out Search but he was the only white rapper that was in there. Mr. Magic threw water on Search.
Just that hating s---, straight hating!
“Ah White boy what are you doing here!” That type of thing.
And that was ill because me and Search was kicking it when we first got there because he said he was from Far Rockaway so I said I am from Queens too. But with Mele Mel like I said we weren’t suppose to battle it was suppose to be just a demonstration. But he was hating too, “Queens is in the house” yeah right what ever! He thought he was the man he thought he deserved the belt. Although he won he felt he got jerked from last year or what ever.
O.k. let me ask you this. The night before when you and X were going at it was Mel in the house and was he walking around watching like a panther or something and maybe talking that talk?
Nah I didn’t see Mel but it wouldn’t have made a difference because he wasn’t ready know way, because I was hungry as hell at that time. So back to Mel he was like, “if you are a real champ then you will battle for that belt.” I was like “nah I am not going to battle you for this belt. N----- I just won the s---! I’m taking it home to Queens and then I am going to rep this!” But the crowd started to amp it and they were like “Go Mikey, Go Mikey battle him”. So I looked at his belt and my belt and slammed my belt down on top of his and went in. Do you know this dude had the nerve to do push ups while I rhymed!
Right I heard.
So I had the people clap to his push ups while I rhymed off the rhythm of his push ups and I tore his ass up.
Do you remember any of the rhymes you used that night?
I said something like.
“Why ya’ll all figuring out what I am saying
I am going to step ahead
So therefore I am slaying
You ya rhyme biting
To late to go home and do your own writing
Dirty street roaming
Wack ass showman
Coming to the party
Big no hair combing
Fake gold wearing
Mikey Dee fearing
I call you out to battle
You play hard of hearing
Your ill legit
And when it comes to hip hop
You are the pit of emcees in the place
So listen to daddy as I prepare
To get on your case
Take one step back
Because you ain’t a contender
I will have you down on your knees and surrender
To the undisputed King of my division
With one half rhyme I will blur your vision
Make you take a standing 8
But do worst
I will fake two rhymes and win by a TKO in the first!
You half ass flaking my rhyme faking
Come around the way
And all your s--- will be taken
That’s right homeboy now I am done snapping
Address me as the new Mike Tyson of Rapping
Dam kid I wish we would have had the tape of that night. (I have the show but not the whole show. Tape 200.) But this is a plus you hitting us with that rhyme from that night.
Did Mel have a clever response to your rhyme?
He said some slick s--- like that’s why my c—is all over your girl friends breast or what ever. That was the only punch line I really remember but after that it was a rizzy. (Rap, the end.) Because the crowd was booing him you know what I mean! I didn’t need any music. On my second go round I just totally demolished him. But the ill s--- about it is as I was doing my second round rhyme Caz was standing behind us as well as the belts. Caz picked up both of the belts and when I finished he handed them to Mele Mel, even though the crowd already knew who won! We didn’t even go by the judges or nothing like that we went strictly by the crowd and I had them. And so Mel walked off with the belts. He pushed Big Daddy Kane down the stairs as he was coming through asking Mel “yo what are you doing.” Mel mushed Jackie Paul who was a rep from Tommy Boy Records and just waltz out of the building. I didn’t have anybody with me that day from my hood just me and my D.J. Quest but I gained a lot of love after that. I had dudes that were from the Bronx ready to step to Mele Mel because it was a terrible move on his part but I stopped all of that because I felt if ya’ll do something to him it is going to reflect on my career. I rather he walked out and we finished that battle another time some where else. So after all of that occurred Tom Silverman of Tommy Boy Records who ran the New Music Seminar competition said just because Mele Mel did that we are going to make Mikey Dee a bigger and better belt. Two weeks later I got the new belt. Then I saw Mele Mel at a club I think it was the new Disco Fever up in the Bronx and I was walking through there in my new belt over my shoulder.
And he couldn’t say anything to me. I had my D.J. Quest with me and a couple of my cats from Boom Bash this time.
I know you are cool with both Caz and Mel today but when did it start getting better between you and them?
Well me and Mele Mel never really spoke after that because I was disappointed and I really didn’t want no parts of him because it was f--- up. Him and Caz were guys I really idolized. But one day I was doing an album with Main Source and I bumped into Caz in the studio and I said do you remember me and he didn’t until I sparked his brain about the thing that went down at the New Music Seminar and then he bugged out and then he apologized for it and then that is when I let him know that he was one of the few emcees I idolized and it was a heartbreaking experience for me.
I told him I can’t give him the same respect that I had because of what went down. But now everything is cool.
Ain’t life something, today you and Caz are rocking together off that Hush Tours around
My man Saf45king hit me with this from a Mele Mel interview after he read the Mikey Dee post:
As legends have it, we “battled”. In reality, the year before I won the The New Music Seminar battle for world supremacy (or whatever the f--- they called it). Me, Caz & King Sun were in the finals (best battle in the history of hip-hop). Prior to that year, everyone who had won came back the next year to defend their title, but for some reason, I was not allowed to. And, to add insult to injury, they took a year to give me the belt that I had won. So, what I did, to prove to Tom Silverman (the creator of The New Music Seminar) that I had just as much power in hip-hop as him, I challenged Mikey D. as a bluff to take both the belts. I was not really thinking about Mikey D., but was getting revenge on Tom Silverman for 1.) not letting me defend my title & 2.) waiting ‘till the next seminar to give me the prize that I had won a whole year before. In other words, I said a rhyme, Caz gave me Mikey D.’s belt & I walked out of the joint without security or anyone else doing anything to me. Mele Mel owns hip-hop. Peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 04:09 AM
This is a little clip from The Magic Dee story who was a memeber of a Harlem Crew that was under Mike and Cave productions.
L. A. Sunshine vs. G-Man?
L. A. is a very important figure to his team. G-Man became a very important figure in the Crash Crew based on his parody of Rayvon.
Oh you said it! (As Troy jumps out of his seat.) After Rayvon told me this, I waited but nobody repeated what Rayvon said. I said ‘dam he might be right but no one is quoting him.”
(Dee laughs.) That was Rayvons verse, actually Johnny Wa’s. You heard it and I was there.
Rayvon said, “them n----- bite my s---!”
They did not bite they absolutely ate! (We both started laughing.) They ate the whole meal.
Well I have to say G-man did a fantastic job with his verses still in all. That last set of rhymes on that album is one of the bangers of all time.(High Powered Rap.)
Yes and that’s why when you say between the two of them its like I needed to explain to you why I was going to pick this other individual because of truth of the matter which is basically that G-mans verse was somebody else’s verse that he just altered.
Well tell me how he altered it?
Well the original verse by Johnny Wa goes,
“Well it’s E E-Man
and he’s rocking on,
and the beat don’t stop until the break off dawn.
The R- A- Y- girl
the V and O and N
and every letter in his name is the sure shot win.
And on and on and on and on
and then the beat don’t stop until the break of dawn ha!
Like wasting your money just driving those cars girl
and hoping to God that you meet Johnny Wa ha ha.”
That was like Johnny’s Wa’s only thing. (Tape 76.) Now Rayvon might have written it, but when Johnny Wa said that that was his thing. So it’s like the same thing, “when you walking down the street with your box in your hand well its E E Man and it’s rocking on.”
It’s the same thing.
Yeah I didn’t even realize that. I thought Rayvon was referring to the sing songie way G- Man did it. So he took the lyrics
No he didn’t just take the lyrics he took the melody also.
Right he flipped the melody.
Right he did a parody. Also you have to remember it’s hard for anyone to realize as a youngster how world wide or borough wide a record is compared to you rocking at a party every weekend on tapes. So nobody remembers Johnny Wa or that that was his rhyme. That was his signature song. He did that every where he went and they did it to the same beat.
You right Cheryl Lynne’s “Got To Be Real.”
Right. And that’s the Magnificent 7 (From Harlem.) D.J. Spivey, E Man I don’t know…..
Right see you know because you be having those tapes to say their names
You are exactly right. Now the thing about it is when G man first did that line at say Harlem World or Celebrity Club cats in the crowd screamed stop biting Johnny Wa and Rayvon s---. But then Rayvon said once him and Johnny Wa went to jail, out of site out of mind! Then G- Man rocked the city with that.
So one day before I found out the history of G Man, me and Caz was talking and I said “after Caz Mel and Moe Dee the next King would be between Dota Rock and G- Man.” Caz burst out “Dot would eat G-man, people keep living off that one rhyme G- Man did. Dot would eat him up.” I was caught off guard because I made a terrible mistake from off one fly ass rhyme.
He’s right because G man didn’t have any rhymes.
At the time I didn’t know. See I didn’t know all the history from you guys on the East side especially pertaining to him, being as I am on the West side. I knew about Reg and them but I didn’t know fully about G Man.
And like I said Fly Guy was an original member of the Crash Crew, G man came to the Group after Fly guy left. Peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 04:11 AM
This is a little taste of one of the coolest brothers in R&B Oran Juice Jones.
And once again there was no barometer by which to gage the success or failure of something that exist in its own arena by it self. So part of it being novelty helped it be like “Wow, oh s---.” Now whether it was good or not that came later. That is now being realized, because 20 years after the fact people still know the lines and dialogue.
That suggested that it was successful. Now profitable is another thing. (We both start laughing.) But from a creative perspective we hit.
So how did you know to sing “I saw you…” before the monologue started?
Just like the Day Dreaming song I wasn’t unfamiliar with songs! I mean I wanted to be a singer. I didn’t think I was the greatest singer in the world but I did think I could tell a story. I knew that, and to be honest that is why I put the monologue to it because I didn’t feel sufficient as a singer. So I thought the monologue would give it a little more depth.
I feel you.
As well it was more important to establish Oran Juice Jones as an entity. As oppose to The Rain being a hit record. The monologue gave Oran Juice Jones an identity. Like Prince the Rocker, Oran Juice Jones became the identity with the monologue. There is a million cats singing so you are going to judge the singer by the song. So the monologue is the way of making a connection to who ever took the time out to listen.
So what inspired that record it self? I know you needed the monologue, but where did you get the thought, the idea to start saying those words, “You just a squirrel trying to get a nut,” and all that stuff. As well as the lyrics to In the Rain, were you actually broken hearted by a women?
Nah nah I had gone through some stuff but not to the point where I wanted to write a song about it. At the time the song was actually written by Vinnie Bell.
Who was he?
He was a young producer that was trying to get on at the time. I my self was trying to get with cats that were first timers like me. You know give them a shot. He wrote the song but I was like well how would I handle that. Once again my interest was to make Oran Juice Jones an entity.
So that is why the monologue came about to establish me. So the marriage worked very well.
So he wrote the melody and the concept, but you actually wrote that monologue your self.
Right I wrote the monologue.
Is there anything that inspired you to write the monologue, like a situation in life?
No, really the approach was just logic. It was a logical approach because from that point what do men do? Beat the woman up? Kicker her, stomp her out, get gorilla. I’m too cool for that.
(Troy starts laughing.)
I’m not throwing no girl down any flight of stairs! Come on player I am a pimp!
(Troy is laughing.)
You know what I am saying. (With a sarcastically funny voice.) I am not doing that s---. I wasn’t a pimp but I entertain that mentality. I always applied the concept of pimping and what that dictates is totally alien. Throwing a woman down a flight of stairs is totally…man I seen a chick get thrown out of a window in a hotel. It was only the second floor and she didn’t get hurt or nothing but the whole idea of a woman going out of the window was crazy to me.
But back to me, that is not what I would do so I was like how could I be cool about it. I would just take back everything, and I just flip the script and keep it pimpin! Just get fly with ours and this is how we would do it. It provided an alternative option as oppose to beating her up and throwing her down a flight of stairs. Any gorilla could do that.
Which open up the door to a lot of cats that wanted to be cool at that point. If you could identify with it you was cool. If you couldn’t understand that player believe me you weren’t suppose to!
It wasn’t for you. (We both start laughing.) peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
03-07-2009, 04:13 AM
A little bit more.
So what I am saying is, was the street life too much for you at that time and you took the street life with you into the studios and stuff like that and that’s what kind of like hurt your situation you are saying?
It hurt it a lot, yeah it did. I took a lot of that attitude with me.
Yes the arrogance and the whole gangster mentality.
Smacking n------ up!
Not really smacking, I just….
Not you but the n------ around you, your click.
No my threats were more direct. I didn’t like physical violence, publicly displayed.
I understand that but what about the cats that were running with you. Them n------ would love to do something for you just like that!
Nah they would just leave notes. I went to Columbia one day and this was the very first time we had a problem and Ruben told me he didn’t want to do something. It was to promote a party or something I wanted to do and he didn’t want to do it! It really hurt me. So I wrote down an address. He said what’s that? I said that’s the address where your kids go to private school.
He looked at me and it was a strange look. The moment I did it I knew I made a mistake.
The moment I did it I said my God I wish I could take this back! But it was to late then. So I had to play it all the way. But it was s--- like that that really hurt me. Going up to Columbia and Polygram and slamming doors and letting them know you are going to do it my way. See I didn’t understand…when you making a transition from one level to the next you cannot take the baggage of that first experience with you.
You have to completely reinvent your self, and I didn’t recognize that at that point, so that was to my detriment.
I got you.
The cats that you play with man, its fun while were playing. But we all have to be playing. Once it becomes aggressive to the point were we ain’t playing no more, you know these are the people either playing with you or they are going to get scared and leave you the f--- alone.
And that’s what really happened. But the way it was timed it wasn’t that they left me alone. See I had responsibilities that were overwhelming that out weighted my desires to be in the music business because of the time that was being consumed. So I very well couldn’t be in two places at the same time, so I had to make a choice. So I choose what I held most dear to me (My Mother.). And that is the reason why I could entertain the idea of trying to making another album today. Cats have approached me saying we will help you, we will do this, we can record here it won’t cost you anything. We will mix we will master! You will have a finished product! We will help you promote it we will go to radio, Tom Joyner’s etc. and he has said he has a lot of radio stations that will support me. It was just me up until this point thinking that I had no real artistic contribution to make because it has always been offered to me. And to be honest it never was really about the paper. It was about the paper when I didn’t know any better. But when I finally got poisoned by the art bug it became an artistic endeavor.
So that is what drove you.
Well that is what survives. You dig what I am saying. I can make a hundred million dollars. And you will never see the hundred million but what you will see is what I buy with that hundred million. You know Trump because you see the buildings.
So it’s your artistic endeavor that survives. And it worked out so well that when I come back this time again I will not becoming back to make a career but to make my impression felt.
I feel you, to put your art out there so that it last 100 to 200 to 300 years from now!
Hopefully baby boy….(Juice starts laughing.)
I know what you saying like the history books. The music applies as well.
Absolutely just like this piece that you are writing. And see I had to come to that level, which is a level of passion. You have to have a passion for it. Peace
Troy L. from HARLEM, One
www.thafoundation.com a whole lot of other work is going on over there. Family if it appears I did too much at this wonderful site then I apologize and it won't happen again but I do like sharing the information. Peace
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