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TSA
04-23-2009, 01:14 AM
90s hip hop wasn't really that positive, self constructive, or intelligent either


infact in the 90s, as opposed to rapping about sweaty dangling swaggers, clothing, money and clothes, rappers rapped about killing black men, being poor, money, clothing and clothes.

seriously.


look at illmatic.


everyone likes to romanticise about it like it was an intellectual album.
but it wasn't

the albums most prevelant themes were hanging out, blunts, and guns,

infact there's more blunts in Illmatic then Tical.

which isn't really that weed oriented.

nas hardly says anything clever on the album and never, i mean never, says anything constructive.

infact most rappers that started believing their own hype about their 'intelligence' came out the box rapping about being the smoke from their lyrical blunts making them cough.







its only recently that ppl started associating real hip hop with 'intelligence'

and cause of this tied retarded links to 90s hip hop that weren't really there.


todays hip hop for the most part is vien and materialistic

but the hip hop in the 90s was brutal and self destructive, which is how i like my fuckin hip hop damn it, but still.

so yeah, stop acting like hip hop got dumber

in the 90s Big L was raping everyones family members and catching all types of AIDS on wax.

ButterCrunchJoints
04-23-2009, 01:23 AM
hip-hop did unarguably get dumber, and that is a horrible example to try to prove your false point. Big L was incredibly clever, he was a wordsmith. How can you go from that to today's rappers turning "DEY SWAG ONNNN" and not see a drop off in intelligence?

TSA
04-23-2009, 01:55 AM
how did it get dumber?

what would imply that the knowledge that onyx was spitting on BACDAFACUP when they said

"I HATE YOUR FUCKING GUTS AND I HOPE THAT YOU DIE, STICKY FINGERS, MY NAME AND MY LIFE IS A LIE, AND IM HAVING A BAD DAY SO STAY OUT OF MY WHY, (AND WHAT THE PISTOL PACKING PEOPLE SAY YOU BETTER OBEY"

...taught you something.

infact when rappers tried to be smart, in both eras, it was rare and probably equally prevelant, and almost all the time dumb cause they were just saying shit that everyone already assumed

the government hates black ppl
black ppl are poor
white ppl do shitty shit
black people are fucking up.



that's 20 years of intellectual hip hop in 4 sentences.

ButterCrunchJoints
04-23-2009, 02:23 AM
so you're honestly going to make the argument that mainstream hip hop today is intelectually equal to mainstream hip hop from the 90's? I'm not saying that rappers back in the day were Cornel West, but Biggie was a very smart and creative dude, as you can see through his lyrics, as were most of the 90's stars. With the exception of Lupe and to a much lesser extent(on the intelligence side) Wayne, there is nobody putting out shit that takes a certain level of smarts or creativity or wit to create.

I've been studying for the last 10 hours so this might not be the most coherent and organized post, but you get the point. No, not all 90's rap was positive or introspective. If that actually = not intelligent, then you would be right. You dont have to rap about philosophy to show smarts.

side note...I totally agree that most attempts at political or sophisticated rap fails miserably and is super wack and cliched, not to mention flat out wrong.
but there are exceptions to that. On the real, show me anything that came out in the last 10 years that can fuck with this intellectually.

1xBZ3Cs9bCM

that song is absolutely perfect.

Visionz
04-23-2009, 02:49 AM
2pjHlizcXI8
o6OaajNvElc
tlgZYxJB2vY
EARLY 90's
AUn1u9SYdCQ

Ghost In The 'Lac
04-23-2009, 04:20 AM
The difference from 90's and now is not about intelliengence, its about Realness.

Realness.

They werent trying to be intelligent, like Nas is now, Nas on illmatic was just trying to be real to his peoples.

The lyrics back then were REAL. Talked about REAL everyday shit. Said in a REAL way.

Now rappers arent real with it down to earth. They make songs about cable news channels and being Hero's.

derek41
04-23-2009, 10:15 AM
I agree somewhat with what ghostlaced said about realness. Considering the struggles that most of us are facing on a daily basis we should see a return to the real shit soon enough. There were some truly intelligent artists and albums in the 90's though. Aceyalone's Book of Human Language will blow your mind when you listen to it front to back. BlackStar's first album was quite smart. Tribe's albums were always fun and had an intelligent perspective on life.

I think the biggest difference between mainstream back in the 90's and mainstream today is the lack of diversity in the music that the majority of people are exposed to. Back in the day you could turn on rap city and see "nuthin but a g thang" and then the next video would be Jeru's "Come Clean". You don't get that these days, instead you getthe same 10 songs playing over and over again and usually it is the really dumb shit that gets played. There still is intelligent music coming from hip hop it just isn't coming from the radio or TV.

sdeblasi
04-23-2009, 10:21 AM
also, the 90's had a lot more originality you had all different kinds of sounds comin from a bunch of different places...Boot camp, Wu, Tribe, Outkast, Premo...everyone had their own distinct style

nowawdays theres no originality in the mainstream everyone jumps on and des the same thing trying to make the next club hit....for example, the word swag now being used in every song made with the same exact boom-clap drum beat and the cheap hi-hats...this will eventually end though i hope...

TSA
04-23-2009, 10:25 AM
The difference from 90's and now is not about intelliengence, its about Realness.

Realness.

They werent trying to be intelligent, like Nas is now, Nas on illmatic was just trying to be real to his peoples.

The lyrics back then were REAL. Talked about REAL everyday shit. Said in a REAL way.

Now rappers arent real with it down to earth. They make songs about cable news channels and being Hero's.
very fuckin true

visions, all the ppl you posted still make music, music of equal intellectual value plus there's new cats that do the same, but you can't say they were representitive of their era just like tha cats doing 'smart rap' now.

the 90s was the era of gangster and hardcore rap, period. you'll have exceptions just like now being a era of materialistic rap, with exceptions and with the advent of the internet's take over of life there's probably more intellectual rappers, they just don't get shine...but back then they weren't the ones shining either.


the ones shining rapped about how

bitches were worth dirt
killing black men
beating peoples ass
firing and having guns
selling drugs
doing drugs
how bad ass they were
how they don't give a fuck about life and others


and so forth.

infact when NY started making intellectual rap, everyone tuned out and started listening to the westcoast

then NY got ignorant with the program and everyone went back east,


but ghostlace is right, the 90s was realer then eggs, not smarter then eggs.

snapple
04-23-2009, 11:30 AM
I agree somewhat with what ghostlaced said about realness. Considering the struggles that most of us are facing on a daily basis we should see a return to the real shit soon enough. There were some truly intelligent artists and albums in the 90's though. Aceyalone's Book of Human Language will blow your mind when you listen to it front to back. BlackStar's first album was quite smart. Tribe's albums were always fun and had an intelligent perspective on life.

I think the biggest difference between mainstream back in the 90's and mainstream today is the lack of diversity in the music that the majority of people are exposed to. Back in the day you could turn on rap city and see "nuthin but a g thang" and then the next video would be Jeru's "Come Clean". You don't get that these days, instead you getthe same 10 songs playing over and over again and usually it is the really dumb shit that gets played. There still is intelligent music coming from hip hop it just isn't coming from the radio or TV.



this is the truth. today we lack diversity. the majority of new music coming out is commercial and formulated. they keep putting out the same shit again and again. there isn't much creativity. it's weird to because who can truthfully feel this shit? everything is Bentleys champagne and wanna-be gang banging. Hip-Hop like this guy said use to be real diverse. there was actual genuine artists.

another problem is that shit is so washed up anybody who is "different" will get put on. look at asther roth. what the fuck is that? how did he get signed to convict records....how is he taking pictures with credible rappers and doing tracks.....the guy blew up just because he's a gimmick...white suburban college boy shit. he aint shit. the game is just so bland anybody whos slightly out of the norm will get noticed quick.


There still are artists out there that are keeping it authentic. the problem is a lot of them aren't getting any shine. to many rappers will stay in the streets and never really get heard on a larger scale...not to mention the police keep dismantling the hip-hop scene. to many good MCs are indited or killed.

Hip-Hop goes through phases and change just like we do as people. Hip-hop isn't dead, you just have to dig now.

theafghan
04-23-2009, 03:51 PM
well, illmatic wasn't really trying to be anything so positive and constructive. like someone said above, it was just about being "real," like just talkin about his life growin up.

but, there still were some constructive messages, like how about the chorus to the world is yours..."whose world is this? the world is yours, the world is yours..." that's pretty empowering

lines like, "life is parallel to hell, but i must maintain..."
"life's a bitch but god forbid the bitch divorce me..."
"i switch my motto, instead of sayin 'fuck tomorrow,' that buck that bought a bottle coulda struck the lotto"

you got little lines like these throughout the album

and then someone said 90s rap is gangsta rap, well thats just ignorin a lot of hiphop from that time period...Tribe Called Quest, Common for example, and early talib aka blackstar....

and yea, bein real is very important to music, which is exactly why Nas doesn't make illmatic type albums anymore...he's rich now. so he's gonna start talkin shit on Fox news and bigger issues, which is cool along with the more personal struggle type of stuff.

baritone
04-23-2009, 04:16 PM
no shit

i just think the way those things were delivered on wax was the compelling part

people praise the 90's because of the sheer amount of pure lyricists that emerged during the 90's

drippie k
04-23-2009, 08:30 PM
90's rappers didnt talk about "intelligent" shit but you can tell they were more "intelligent" with how they put their rhymes together


basically, it's not what was or is being said...its how they said/say it

derek41
04-24-2009, 11:12 AM
90's rappers didnt talk about "intelligent" shit but you can tell they were more "intelligent" with how they put their rhymes together


basically, it's not what was or is being said...its how they said/say it

Exactly, even if the subject matter was hood shit at least it sounded like they had some intelligence. These cats today talk as if they have marbles in their mouths. You have a bunch of high school dropouts who can't complete a sentence let alone entertain me.

White_Mouse
04-24-2009, 11:27 AM
rhyme scheme structure and actual rapping skill are what set the 90's apart, people knew how to write a verse and deliver it in a dope way

Now you get underground cats like Mac Leethal who are just joke tellers, they stick in a few multis for good measure, but overall the delivery is uninteresting, another example is Vinnie Paz, who has a decent structure, but comes off sounding like a raspy voiced godfather taking a shit

TSA
04-24-2009, 12:22 PM
90's rappers didnt talk about "intelligent" shit but you can tell they were more "intelligent" with how they put their rhymes together


basically, it's not what was or is being said...its how they said/say it

Exactly, even if the subject matter was hood shit at least it sounded like they had some intelligence. These cats today talk as if they have marbles in their mouths. You have a bunch of high school dropouts who can't complete a sentence let alone entertain me.
lol nas is a middle school drop out
most of wutang are middle school drop outs (except ODB and U-god)
they weren't saying shit intelligently. ppl just have it in their mind that they were from some reason.

food for thought
04-24-2009, 12:25 PM
nas hardly says anything clever on the album and never, i mean never, says anything constructive.

ure telling me he didnt say anything constructive or clever on "One Love" ??