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Ninja
05-22-2009, 12:21 PM
Long, but well worth the read if you truly looking for the truth.

Again and again Jesus said that he was sent to the world only to give as much guidance as the people of his own time could bear. As for complete teaching which would stay forever with mankind, he said:

But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14-26)

Only the prophet of Islam could have fulfilled this prophecy of Jesus. Muhammad was truly sent in his name because he bore testimony to his truth. The Holy Quran says:

The Messiah, son of Mary, was a messenger, "surely messengers like unto him had passed away before him" (The Holy Quran 5:76)

The Holy Quran reports that the angels told Mary:

Surely Allah gives you good news with a word from Him of whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, worthy of regard in this world and hereafter. (The Holy Quran 3:46)

The Holy Prophet testified to the truth of Jesus as a divine and honored Teacher and Prophet, and declared them mistaken and misguided who thought him accursed. The Holy Quran described his teachings as "guidance and light ."Further elaborating the same prophecy, Jesus said:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will sent him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. ... I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.. and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. (John 16:7-14)

This prophecy clearly lays down that:

1. The Comforter will come after the departure of Jesus.
2. When the Comforter comes, he will reprove the world of sin, truth and justice.
3. He will guide the world into all truth.
4. The book revealed to him will contain no human word.
5. He will foretell things to come.
6. He will glorify Jesus and clear him of all charges.

Now when we take this prophecy point by point, it is unmistakably proven that it applies to none else but the Holy Prophet Muhammad. He came after Jesus. The Comforter was supposed to reprove the followers of Jesus. Obviously, he could not be a Christian or a Jew .The prophecy must relate to one who would belong to another people but should respect Jesus and promote reverence for him. The Holy Prophet was neither Jew nor a Christian. He was an Ishmaelite. But he defended the honor of Jesus. Thus says the Quran:

[The Jews] slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified, and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it: they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this: conjecture into a certainty; on the contrary, Allah exalted him to Himself (The Holy Quran 4: 158)

Here the Holy Quran specifically says that Jesus was saved from that accursed death designed for him by his enemies. However, they only suspected that they had succeeded in crucifying him. But Allah had not only saved him but admitted him to the circle of His favored ones.

Of the promise, "He will show you things to come", we need only say that no prophet has told the world of things to come as much as has the prophet of Islam.

The prophecy said that "he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak". This description can only apply to the Prophet Muhammad. The New and Old Testaments do not contain a single book in which man's word has not been mixed with God's. The Quran is nothing but the word of God from beginning to end. Not a word even of the Prophet is to be found in it.

When Peter appeared before the people of Jerusalem, his words were: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you". John starts one of his conversations with "I, John, who am your brother". On the same lines we read the utterances of Philip, James and others in the Bible.

About the Holy Prophet, the Quran says:

He does not speak out of his own desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed. (The Holy Quran 53:4-5)

The prophecy had said: "He will guide you unto all truth". Again Muhammad was the only prophet who claimed to have brought a universal and perfect law. The Holy Quran says:

Today We have perfected your religion for you and completed Our favor upon you. (The Holy Quran 5:4)

How clearly has the prophecy been fulfilled in the person of the Prophet Muhammad in all of its details. Sometimes an unsuccessful attempt is made to dim the glory of this marvelous prophecy by claiming that this Comforter was the Holy Ghost who came after Jesus to his disciples. One wonders how this claim can be harmonized with the fact that the person foretold in the verses is described with the pronoun "he," which could not possibly refer to a spirit. Then, was not the Spirit of Truth supposed to come only after the departure of Jesus? Should it be then assumed that the Holy Ghost was not with Jesus ? Obviously no devoted Christian will accept this assumption. One can also inquire where that truth is which is not found in the New Testament but was later brought by the Holy Ghost.

A Prophet From Thy Brethren

The fact is that before Jesus, Moses had also foretold of a great prophet in clear and precise words. When Moses went to Mount Horeb under the command of God he addressed the Israelites saying:

The Lord thy God will raise unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me, unto him ye shall hearken. (Deuteronomy 18:15)

And again, God's words to Moses:

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass that, whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

It is evident from these verses that Moses foretold a Law-giving Prophet who was to appear after him, and who was to be from among the brethren of Israel.That he was to be a Law-giver and not an ordinary Prophet is obvious from the words "like unto Moses", since Moses was also a Law-giver. The promulgation of "a new Law" means the initiation of a new movement, a new nation. A prophet with a new Law is obviously no ordinary teacher or reformer. He has to present a comprehensive teaching, incorporating fundamental principles as well as detailed rules.

Was Jesus such a prophet? Was he a Law-giver? Did he bring a new Law into the world to replace an old one? The answer, in his own words:

Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto You, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17-18)

And the followers of Jesus went so far as to declare:

And the Law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law. (Galatians 3:12-13)

Jesus laid no claim to a new Law; his disciples regarded the Law as a curse. It was the Holy Quran which announced from the very outset that:

This is the (complete and perfect) Book, there is nothing of doubt in it. It is a guidance for the righteous. (The Holy Quran 2:3)

The prophecy also said that the Promised One was to be raised not from among Israel but from their brethren. Muhammad was from the brethren of the Israelites, the Ishmaelites.

It also told that God would put his words in his mouth. The New Testament gospels do not consist of words which God put in Jesus's mouth. They only tell us his story and what he himself and his disciples said and did.

The Holy Quran, on the other hand, says:

Say,O Muhammad, I am a man like unto you: Only the word of God come unto me. (The Holy Quran 18: 111)

The prophecy spoke of "words which he shall speak in my name." Strange as it may seem, there is not a single example of words which Jesus may be said to have received from God with the command to pass them on. The Holy Quran, on the other hand, specifically claimed to be the word from God.

The words of the Lord had announced that the Promised One would be a prophet. Jesus, according to the Christian evangelists, did not claim to be a prophet. Matthew reports that he asked his disciples:

"Whom do men say that I the son of man ..?"
Peter replied that he was the Christ. the Son of the living God.
(Matthew 16:13-16)

Thus Jesus denied being either John the Baptist or Elias or one of the prophets. Muhammad was proclaimed as not only a prophet but also as "like unto Moses," when the Quran said:

Verily We have sent to you a Messenger, who is a witness over you, even as we sent a Messenger to Pharaoh. (The Holy Quran 73:16)

In short, one thousand nine hundred years before the advent of the prophet of Islam, Moses declared that his own Law was, in the divine scheme, not the last Law; that the world was to have a fuller Law later on; and that, for this God would send in the latter days another Messenger of His. This Messenger was to teach all truth; it was he who was to mark the last stage in the spiritual advance of man. The world had to wait for another book and another Prophet.

If, therefore, the Quran and the Holy Prophet have come after the Bible and after the Prophets Moses and Jesus, and if they claim to have come from God as guidance to man, their claim must be treated as just and true. It must be taken as the Fulfillment of ancient prophecies. The revelation of the Quran was not a gratuitous revelation, a redundance in the presence of other revelations. Indeed, if the Quran had not been revealed, promises made by God through His messengers would have gone unfulfilled, and the world would have become afflicted with doubt and disbelief.

Divine Light From Paran

The prophecies of the Bible had even led its followers to that part of the world where the great Prophet was to appear. Thus it was said:

And he said, the Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; and shined forth from Mount Paran and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (Deuteronomy 33:2)

In this verse Moses is promised three manifestations of the glory of God. The first of these appeared on Sinai in the time of Moses. Time passed. The second manifestation promised in the prophecy was to take place at Seir, a part of the world near where the miracles of Jesus took place. "Rising up from Seir," therefore, meant the advent of Jesus.

The third manifestation of divine glory was to take its rise from Paran, and Paran (Arabic Faran) is the name of the hills which lie between Mecca, the birth place of Muhammad, and Medina, the town where he died. According to the Old Testament, Ishmael, the ancestor of Muhammad, lived in this part. Thus we have in the Bible:

And God was with the lad (Ishmael): and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran. (Genesis 21:20-21)

Historical and geographical evidence shows that the descendents of Abraham lived in Arabia. All of them held Mecca and Kaaba, the house of worship built by Abraham, in great reverence. His son Ishmael first settled in Mecca. Genesis gives the names of twelve sons of Ishmael including two named Tema and Kedar. (Genesis 25:13-16) This is further supported by the testimony of Isaiah where we read:

The burden of Arabia. In the forest of Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye traveling companies of Dedanim.The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they provided with their bread him that fled. For they fled from the swords, from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war. For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail: And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished: for the Lord God of Israel hath spoken it. (Isaiah 21:13-16)

This prophetic passage is a picture of the Battle of Badr which took place about a year after the Holy Prophet's migration from Mecca to Medina. In this battle the sons of Kedar , the people of Mecca and the territories around, unable to withstand the fierceness of Muslim swordsmen and archers, sustained disastrous defeat. God made a handful of men, poorly armed and without provisions, the means of inflicting this humiliation on an army led by experienced generals.

The battles with the Meccans continued against heavy odds until such time that the Prophet Muhammad entered Mecca after a struggle of several years. This was the time when ten thousands of saints accompanied him. The Holy Prophet declared that the message of God had been completed in the form of the Holy Quran. Thus the prophecy of Moses was fulfilled that the Lord would shine forth from Paran with ten thousands of saints, with a fiery Law in his right hand. Thus also the prophecy of Jesus was fulfilled that the spirit of Truth "will guide you into all truth." His fiery Law, the Holy Quran, consumed all impurities of flesh and turned the grossest hearts into pure gold.

Could Jesus have fulfilled this wonderful prophecy? He did not rise from Paran. He had only twelve disciples and not ten thousand saints. Isaiah had spoken of one that fled; the flight of Muhammad is such an important part of Muslim history that the Islamic calendar starts from the very year of migration.

"The Earth Was Full Of His Praise"

This advent was also prophesied by Habakkuk several centuries before Jesus. Thus we have:

God comes from Teman, and the Holy One from Mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the ea11h was full of his praise. And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand5: and there was the hiding of his power. Before him went the pestilence, and the burning coals went fo11h at his feet. He stood and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, and the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting. I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction; and the cu11ain of the land of Midian did tremble. (Habakkuk 3:3-7)

This again shows that the third manifestation mentioned earlier was going to be by one who would appear from the land of Tema and Mount Paran. The earth was going to be full of his praise. It is not a mere accident, then, that the Holy Prophet of Islam was named Muhammad, which literally means, the Praised One. Only a man with a name as beautiful as his personality and character could answer to the description of Habakkuk.The enemies of Muhammad suffered destruction, pestilence and humiliation of "burning coals" in encountering him in spite of overwhelmingly stronger and larger forces.

Moses died while he was still fighting his enemies. Jesus was put on the Cross. The prophet who beheld and drove the nations asunder, as mentioned by Habakkuk,could be, there- fore, none else but Muhammad. His enemies who looked like "everlasting mountains and perpetual hills" with their immense power were completely routed. Later "the tents of Cushan" and the "curtains of the land of Midian," that is, the land of Canaan then under the Roman Caesar, also found their salvation in surrendering to the servants of the Holy Prophet in the time of that Caesar's successors.

Koolish
05-22-2009, 08:41 PM
"How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear"

Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

so it makes sense that the comforter is the Holy Ghost.

LORD NOSE
05-22-2009, 08:49 PM
"How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear"

Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

so it makes sense that the comforter is the Holy Ghost.

the son is the comforter

the holy ghost is no joke though

THE W
05-29-2009, 08:01 AM
okay, i have a ton of issues throughout the commentary the thread starter posted. i'll go through them one by one.

Again and again Jesus said that he was sent to the world only to give as much guidance as the people of his own time could bear. As for complete teaching which would stay forever with mankind, he said:

But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14-26)

Only the prophet of Islam could have fulfilled this prophecy of Jesus. Muhammad was truly sent in his name because he bore testimony to his truth. The Holy Quran says:

The Messiah, son of Mary, was a messenger, "surely messengers like unto him had passed away before him" (The Holy Quran 5:76)
i believe this bible scripture has been taken out of context. the scripture plainly states that the "comforter" is the holy spirit. i dont see how that can be confused from what the text reads.

the bible states in john 14:15-21

15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

now the passage says "for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you". note that the passage refers to the comforter as the "spirit of truth" and that it refers to that spirit of truth as "he".

now you will say that it doesnt make sense for a spirit to be called "he", why not refer to it as "it"? this is easily justified with the trinity which is how GOD manifests himself in 3 forms, GOD the father, GOD the son, and GOD the holy spirit. so considering this, the holy spirit can justifiably be refered to as "he" because the holy spirit("it") is the spirit manifestation of GOD("he")

now im sure you will say "what about the statement where jesus says "i am in the father"?

lets look at the two verse before that one about how in a little while you will not see me and how he will not leave us confortless. this is refering to the sacrifice that jesus will make on the cross and that when that sacrifice is complete he wll go to be with the father and will leave the holy spirit with us which is the manifestation of GOD that will dwell in us. in this way GOD remains with us in the form of the holy spirit, as the manifestation of GOD as a man which was jesus the christ has gone back to GOD the father.

now to the statement that jesus only came to give as much guidence in his time as people could bare, i believe such a statement misconstrues who jesus really was and what his purpose really was.

he was indeed a teacher and did give people guidence but this was not his ultimate purpose but it was a part of it. his ultimate purpose was to be crucified as a final blood offering for the forgiveness of the sins and to reeastablish through that blood offering the fellowship between GOD and man that was lost through the sins of adam and eve.

john 12: 23-27:

23And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.


jesus already knew that his ultimate destiny and purpose would be crucifiction for the forgiveness of sins and as the last verse in this quoted passage says he would not refuse this despite his own distress as it was the will of the father.


matthew 17:22-23


22And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
23And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.


again, jesus had known way ahead of time about the sacrifice he would make on the cross. and this sacrifice was made for man to have access to forgiveness of their sin through jesus.


acts 10:34-43


34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


this passage shows that when it says "that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins", "him" refers to jesus.

LORD NOSE
05-29-2009, 08:15 AM
the bible states in john 14:15-21

15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

now the passage says "for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you". note that the passage refers to the comforter as the "spirit of truth" and that it refers to that spirit of truth as "he".

now you will say that it doesnt make sense for a spirit to be called "he", why not refer to it as "it"? this is easily justified with the trinity which is how GOD manifests himself in 3 forms, GOD the father, GOD the son, and GOD the holy spirit. so considering this, the holy spirit can justifiably be refered to as "he" because the holy spirit("it") is the spirit manifestation of GOD("he")

now im sure you will say "what about the statement where jesus says "i am in the father"?

lets look at the two verse before that one about how in a little while you will not see me and how he will not leave us confortless. this is refering to the sacrifice that jesus will make on the cross and that when that sacrifice is complete he wll go to be with the father and will leave the holy spirit with us which is the manifestation of GOD that will dwell in us. in this way GOD remains with us in the form of the holy spirit, as the manifestation of GOD as a man which was jesus the christ has gone back to GOD the father.

now to the statement that jesus only came to give as much guidence in his time as people could bare, i believe such a statement misconstrues who jesus really was and what his purpose really was.

he was indeed a teacher and did give people guidence but this was not his ultimate purpose but it was a part of it. his ultimate purpose was to be crucified as a final blood offering for the forgiveness of the sins and to reeastablish through that blood offering the fellowship between GOD and man that was lost through the sins of adam and eve.

john 12: 23-27:

23And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.


jesus already knew that his ultimate destiny and purpose would be crucifiction for the forgiveness of sins and as the last verse in this quoted passage says he would not refuse this despite his own distress as it was the will of the father.


matthew 17:22-23


22And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
23And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.


again, jesus had known way ahead of time about the sacrifice he would make on the cross. and this sacrifice was made for man to have access to forgiveness of their sin through jesus.


acts 10:34-43


34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


this passage shows that when it says "that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins", "him" refers to jesus.



lol - thanks man


at one time i can see the holy ghost being called the comforter - but right now, today, its the son who is the comforter

THE W
05-29-2009, 09:06 AM
The Holy Quran reports that the angels told Mary:

Surely Allah gives you good news with a word from Him of whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, worthy of regard in this world and hereafter. (The Holy Quran 3:46)

The Holy Prophet testified to the truth of Jesus as a divine and honored Teacher and Prophet, and declared them mistaken and misguided who thought him accursed. The Holy Quran described his teachings as "guidance and light ."Further elaborating the same prophecy, Jesus said:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will sent him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. ... I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.. and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. (John 16:7-14)

This prophecy clearly lays down that:

1. The Comforter will come after the departure of Jesus.
2. When the Comforter comes, he will reprove the world of sin, truth and justice.
3. He will guide the world into all truth.
4. The book revealed to him will contain no human word.
5. He will foretell things to come.
6. He will glorify Jesus and clear him of all charges.

Now when we take this prophecy point by point, it is unmistakably proven that it applies to none else but the Holy Prophet Muhammad. He came after Jesus. The Comforter was supposed to reprove the followers of Jesus. Obviously, he could not be a Christian or a Jew .The prophecy must relate to one who would belong to another people but should respect Jesus and promote reverence for him. The Holy Prophet was neither Jew nor a Christian. He was an Ishmaelite. But he defended the honor of Jesus. Thus says the Quran:

[The Jews] slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified, and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it: they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this: conjecture into a certainty; on the contrary, Allah exalted him to Himself (The Holy Quran 4: 158)

Here the Holy Quran specifically says that Jesus was saved from that accursed death designed for him by his enemies. However, they only suspected that they had succeeded in crucifying him. But Allah had not only saved him but admitted him to the circle of His favored ones.

i dont see how any of this proves that the comforter is a man named muhammad especially when we just reviewed a scripture that was quoted where it clearly stated that "the comforter" was the holy ghost.

and again, jesus was more than an honored teacher and prophet as the bible that you are quoting clearly states.

matthew 3:16-17

16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


john 8:16


16And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.


john 10:36-37


36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not

john 16: 27-28

27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.



the 6 points that are made can easily be applied to the holy spirit. the holy spirit isnt a jew or a christian either, he was the spiritual manifestation of GOD, which means it("he") was not from any people but from GOD.




on jesus' death, obviously we have some contradictory beliefs on the details. the bible states that he did die and was risen again on the third day unto the heavens to sit at the right hand of GOD the father. GOD fully manifested his glory and power into jesus and made his name greater than all names.



without the actual death of jesus occuring there is no forgiveness of sins as there would have been no blood offering for this. before the new covanent in jesus' blood people have to slay doves and cattle and sprinkle the blood in an atler for the forgiveness of someones sin. with jesus dying and his blood being shed he was the ultimate blood sacrifice to end all blood sacrifices. and no more do we have to go to a place and offer someone doves and cattle for them to sacrifice in the holy of holy temple for forgiveness of sins. we can go directly to GOD in prayer to ask for forgiveness.


matthew 26:27-29


27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=26&verse=27&end_verse=29&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-24080a)] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."


luke 24:46-48


46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things


acts 5:30-32


30The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."


acts 13:37-39


37But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
38"Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.


this particular scripture speaks to what im talking about with the law of moses requiring the sacrifice of animals for the forgiveness of sins.




reguarding the details of jesus' death, im not trying to say who's right or wrong. im simply pointing out how the bible and quran contradict each other on this issue and letting you know that my take on jesus' death is supported by scripture.

THE W
05-29-2009, 10:46 AM
Of the promise, "He will show you things to come", we need only say that no prophet has told the world of things to come as much as has the prophet of Islam.

The prophecy said that "he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak". This description can only apply to the Prophet Muhammad. The New and Old Testaments do not contain a single book in which man's word has not been mixed with God's. The Quran is nothing but the word of God from beginning to end. Not a word even of the Prophet is to be found in it.

When Peter appeared before the people of Jerusalem, his words were: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you". John starts one of his conversations with "I, John, who am your brother". On the same lines we read the utterances of Philip, James and others in the Bible.

About the Holy Prophet, the Quran says:

He does not speak out of his own desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed. (The Holy Quran 53:4-5)

The prophecy had said: "He will guide you unto all truth". Again Muhammad was the only prophet who claimed to have brought a universal and perfect law. The Holy Quran says:

Today We have perfected your religion for you and completed Our favor upon you. (The Holy Quran 5:4)

How clearly has the prophecy been fulfilled in the person of the Prophet Muhammad in all of its details. Sometimes an unsuccessful attempt is made to dim the glory of this marvelous prophecy by claiming that this Comforter was the Holy Ghost who came after Jesus to his disciples. One wonders how this claim can be harmonized with the fact that the person foretold in the verses is described with the pronoun "he," which could not possibly refer to a spirit. Then, was not the Spirit of Truth supposed to come only after the departure of Jesus? Should it be then assumed that the Holy Ghost was not with Jesus ? Obviously no devoted Christian will accept this assumption. One can also inquire where that truth is which is not found in the New Testament but was later brought by the Holy Ghost.

the holy spirit has worked through man to tell of the things to come.

2 peter 1:20-21

20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

"he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak"

yet again this is talking about the holy spirit and im just not seeing how the author of the commentary can says that this can be talking about no one else but muhammad. the holy spirit does not speak on its own. its there to relay truth to believers threw revelation and realization from jesus. as the quoted biblical passage goes on to read:

"He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you."

me = jesus

both peter and john were filled with the holy spirit when they made those speeches

acts 2:29-36

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.



he this while filled with the spirit


acts 2:1-17


1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:





concerning john


revelation 1:1-11


1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.





jesus in his death perfected the law through himself. christians are not saved by observing the law but by the grace of jesus through faith in him. chrisitanity is not about following a set of laws but about following a person; jesus.


ephesians 2:7-9


7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


galations 2:16


16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.


now some will say "does this mean that we dont have to follow the ten commandments?" no it does not mean that. jesus did not abolish the law, he overhauled it, reconstructed it, in the sense that you dont gain access to GOD through rituals, ceremonies, not eating this or that, etc, but by believing and in the passge of john 3:16:


16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


and living by matthew 22:36-40


36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=22&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-23908b)] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=22&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-23910c)] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."


i already explained the "he" issue with the trinity in my first post but i didnt give scripture to back it up so...


matthew 28:18-20



18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=28&verse=18&end_verse=20&version=31&context=context#fen-NIV-24212a)] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


no point in in baptising people in all 3 of those things if there really is just one.

drippie k
05-29-2009, 12:59 PM
how you guys can read all that is beyond me

LORD NOSE
05-29-2009, 02:22 PM
well........ understanding all of that comes in time to those who are willing to put in the work of understanding it

as times change, ranks and titles change - so the comforter at the time of those writings is different from the one sent to the uncomfortable of these times - but keep searchin