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OB4CL2
06-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Post your thoughts on religion. You may say anything about religion. If you are against it or with it. Anything, just share with us.

Urban_Journalz
06-26-2009, 02:08 PM
Taken the way it's supposed to be taken, I believe that it's the one thing that can bring peace and understanding to people as a whole.

I think it's often demonized by people who are trying to sum up the world's problems (and thier own) in a nice little box with a ribbon attached.

It's misunderstood too. Mainly because people either do one of two things; either they don't study for themselves and leave it to the man on the podium, or they do study, but only study with the intent to cause further corruption and confusion.

I believe people are afraid of religion and this is the reason for most of the problems within and without religion. Those within are either power-hungry and manipulative, "scholars" who hide the truth from the people, in the case of the, "Lost Books of The Bible", or the ones who believe that they practice the religion better than anyone else and KNOW that they are going to Paradise. Excluding any and all other forms of wisdom that isn't in the books that relate to their doctrine. Those without are simply jaw-jacking. Speaking upon something that they have no true knowledge about and making semi-educated guesses.

The fear, I believe, comes from rules. Religion is about proper conduct. Law and Order. Without these things, nothing could exist. Mankind, in most cases, shuns the very idea of rules. It has become so cool to be a rebel, that even if that rebellion is costing you your life, to no honorable end, it's still o.k. because it's, "in".

While we say, "Why should I have to listen to some mystery god and be his servant?", we spend our time serving visible gods and are instead slaves to our lower, baser desires. It's a curious thing.

That's my opinion though.

diggy
06-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Is 'religion' and what the prophets and messengers brought the same thing?

The prophets and messengers taught one message, yet there are hundreds of christian denominations, many jewish ones, and many muslim ones.

Do the followers of religion really follow what was revealed and taught by the prophets/messengers?

LORD NOSE
06-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Is 'religion' and what the prophets and messengers brought the same thing?

The prophets and messengers taught one message, yet there are hundreds of christian denominations, many jewish ones, and many muslim ones.

Do the followers of religion really follow what was revealed and taught by the prophets/messengers?

as understanding of what the Prophets and Messengers (angels) bring grows for some, it stays the same for others -

Urban_Journalz
06-26-2009, 04:15 PM
Is 'religion' and what the prophets and messengers brought the same thing?

The prophets and messengers taught one message, yet there are hundreds of christian denominations, many jewish ones, and many muslim ones.

Do the followers of religion really follow what was revealed and taught by the prophets/messengers?

I would say they are the same thing. However, when you do something like this often enough, it becomes a way of life. Not merely a religion. You become one with it. It's like Miyamoto Musashi said, "A warrior understands being a warrior when he is no longer concerned with being a warrior." You've practiced your movements, meditations and stances so much, that they are now second nature.

Not all followers of religion follow what was taught by the prophets/messengers. That's why there's so many different sects in all major religions. The Qur'an warns against breaking up into different groups, but all it was, like The Gospel, Torah and all the books that went before it, is a warning to those who will listen and a comfort for the faithful.

diggy
06-26-2009, 05:16 PM
I would say they are the same thing.

How is religion and what the prophets and messengers brought the same?

Religion was never taught by them.

Religion was taught by others after their departures.

Urban_Journalz
06-26-2009, 09:01 PM
How is religion and what the prophets and messengers brought the same?

Religion was never taught by them.

Religion was taught by others after their departures.

Surah 5:3 "....This day have those who reject Faith given up all hope of your religion. Yet fear them not, but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you...."

So what the prophets and messengers brought was indeed not only religion, but THE religion, when in it's pure form as practiced by the prophets, messengers, their companions, the angels, etc. The ones who brought the message were the examples of who we would resemble if we followed the message and took it to heart. What followed after the prophets and messengers departure was schism, disagreement and sectarianism. All nations, save the nation of Jonah (pbuh), rejected their saviors and continue to do so.

SubConsciousThoughts
06-26-2009, 09:11 PM
]Taken the way it's supposed to be taken, I believe that it's the one thing that can bring peace and understanding to people as a whole.[/B]

I think it's often demonized by people who are trying to sum up the world's problems (and thier own) in a nice little box with a ribbon attached.

It's misunderstood too. Mainly because people either do one of two things; either they don't study for themselves and leave it to the man on the podium, or they do study, but only study with the intent to cause further corruption and confusion.

I believe people are afraid of religion and this is the reason for most of the problems within and without religion. Those within are either power-hungry and manipulative, "scholars" who hide the truth from the people, in the case of the, "Lost Books of The Bible", or the ones who believe that they practice the religion better than anyone else and KNOW that they are going to Paradise. Excluding any and all other forms of wisdom that isn't in the books that relate to their doctrine. Those without are simply jaw-jacking. Speaking upon something that they have no true knowledge about and making semi-educated guesses.

The fear, I believe, comes from rules. Religion is about proper conduct. Law and Order. Without these things, nothing could exist. Mankind, in most cases, shuns the very idea of rules. It has become so cool to be a rebel, that even if that rebellion is costing you your life, to no honorable end, it's still o.k. because it's, "in".

While we say, "Why should I have to listen to some mystery god and be his servant?", we spend our time serving visible gods and are instead slaves to our lower, baser desires. It's a curious thing.

That's my opinion though.

I stopped reading there

diggy
06-26-2009, 10:23 PM
Surah 5:3 "....This day have those who reject Faith given up all hope of your religion. Yet fear them not, but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you...."

So what the prophets and messengers brought was indeed not only religion, but THE religion, when in it's pure form as practiced by the prophets, messengers, their companions, the angels, etc. The ones who brought the message were the examples of who we would resemble if we followed the message and took it to heart. What followed after the prophets and messengers departure was schism, disagreement and sectarianism. All nations, save the nation of Jonah (pbuh), rejected their saviors and continue to do so.


Urban, I am familiar with that surah.

The arabic word 'deen' does NOT equal the english word 'religion'.

The word in arabic that DOES equal the english word 'religion' is 'SHIYA'AA'.

Please read this clearly. The people who wrote the translations to some Qurans, mistranslated many words.






Watch very carefully how the following verse is translated!!!




30:31 - Muniibiina 'ilayhi wattaquuhu wa 'aqiimus-Salaata wa laa takuunuu minal-mushrikiin;

Translation:
Turning unto him; and be careful of your duty unto Him, and aquiimus-Salaata and be not of those who ascribe partners;


...AND...


30:32 - Minallaziina farraquu Diinahum wa kaanuu Shiya'aa,-kullu hizbim-bimaa la-dayhim farihuun!!

Translation:
Of those who split up their deen and became schismatics, each sect exulting in what they have!!!




From these two verses, one could clearly see that the mushrikiin are those who belong to the 'Shiya'aa', also known as religion.

The deen, again, is not religion; the deen is what the prophets brought.

The religion (Shiya'aa) is what the people brought after the prophets left them.

Urban_Journalz
06-27-2009, 04:00 AM
^^Arabic terms have many translations that mean the same thing. Some say that Ayat Al-Kursi is "The Verse of The Throne", others say, "The Verse of The Chair". What's the difference? They're both sitting devices and therefore, both translations are correct.

I won't waste my time debating over the little details. The bottom line is this; God gave Man the gift of revelation. Rules, signs, warnings and good tidings, that all in the world would know and are not able to come to Him on The Last Day and say, "We didn't know! You didn't even tell us anything!" Call it what you will, religion, doctrine, creed, way of life, deen, whatever, I believe that they're all the same thing and the true form of such was practiced by the prophets/messengers and many during and after their times. Even now there are those who are able to do this.

Personally, I couldn't care less what the technical terms themselves mean, because the truth surpasses all language and translation. Whatever the technicalities are, I can guarantee this; when all is said and done, I'm sure that wether we actually applied this knowledge will weigh in more than the root meaning of a word.

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 04:33 AM
Peace.

To maintain a healthy conversation, I suggest that you do not get caught up in Arabic terminology unless you continue your conversation in Arabic.

I also want to point out that the best translational description of the word din in English is 'life-transaction'. This covers a wide range of meanings, and is interesting to contemplate.

I apologise for not partaking in the debate; although I felt it necessary to say these things.

Peace.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
06-27-2009, 08:04 AM
I'm not sure what the point of religion is.

Now I don't want to bad mouth the supreme being, but I think that it doesn't make sense to create a Heaven and Hell scenario.

Why punish creatures capable of intelligent thought? Why reward them?

It doesn't make sense.

If you are the creator create. Play with. Destroy. But do not kill them and then bring eternal punishments. That is not moral.

Any god possessing a post death punishment isn't good. He may be lawful but he is not loving.

I would not worship a lawful god. The law is and has always been a tool to control people. Such a god is not worthy of worship.

This leads to the second point. Why should we revere our creator? Any being who created life and made it intelligent should not be so feeble as to require their respect. He made them, he can destroy them. That would be enough. Anything else is a flawed being.

OB4CL2
06-27-2009, 10:47 AM
I believe that it's the one thing that can bring peace and understanding to people as a whole.

Well, not as a whole. Religion causes many wars (between other religions). Muslims and Jews have been fighting over Palestine for 70 years (I believe). 9/11..people say Bush did it. Other people say Muslim high-jackers did it.

Urban_Journalz
06-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Well, not as a whole. Religion causes many wars (between other religions). Muslims and Jews have been fighting over Palestine for 70 years (I believe). 9/11..people say Bush did it. Other people say Muslim high-jackers did it.

Religion didn't cause these problems, it was hypocrites and people who didn't follow their doctrine to the letter, people who value worldly power and domination over their fellow man, that caused these problems. The Gospel says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." "An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth." Simply put, action, reaction. Cause, effect. If you put out good, good will surely return to you. The Qur'an says the same thing, "Make not mischief in the Earth after it has been set in order." The Earth was set in order after it was created.

What I'm saying is this, if people were to practice their religions to the letter, these problems would eventually disappear. Yes, there would be corruption, but it would be rooted out and destroyed by the God-fearing people. Such is the way it should be. That old saying confirms it, "All that is required for evil to rule is for good men to do nothing."

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 11:07 AM
OB4CL2: Know that neither of your examples are a result of 'religion'.

Well, not as a whole. Religion causes many wars (between other religions). Muslims and Jews have been fighting over Palestine for 70 years (I believe).

Ian Dallas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdalqadir_as-Sufi) (AKA; Shaykh Abdalqadir as-Sufi) said:

"The war against Palestine by Israel is not judaism versus Islam. Israel’s holy city is New York and Hamas’ holy city is Kerbala, but Israel is killing Palestinians to prevent the destruction of Israeli jewry by Arab blood. It is not their rockets or their tunnels that they fear, it is their penis and their womb. They fear that the quadroon will give way to the octoroon, and racist jewry will disappear forever as it is already disappearing, despite Hollywood, in the USA."

That sums up the situation of Palestine.

9/11..people say Bush did it. Other people say Muslim high-jackers did it.

This has nothing to do with religion. The high-jackers are not considered within the fold of Islam as per consensus of the muslims.

Is Bush a christian? I don't think it matters.

OB4CL2
06-27-2009, 11:27 AM
I am flipping out right now. I typed a whole fucking ESSAY of a reply. And the page messed up and I lost it.

But towards the end of what I typed, I explained that I made this thread to learn about religion and look at good conversations about it. So you guys are like my religious teachers. lol. I hope this becomes a sticky.

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 12:11 PM
In the name of God:

May the Lord of all the worlds benefit you by your intention.

I advise you, however, to be careful about who you choose to be your teachers. Primarily, looks for humility and sincerity within who you look to take from.

Peace.

SubConsciousThoughts
06-27-2009, 12:53 PM
Spirituality >>>>>>> Religion

Even though I have neither I've found people who don't put all there faith into one book or one religion happen to be more open minded and more peaceful then the ones who do.

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 01:21 PM
Spirituality and religion can coincide and they work best together.

LORD NOSE
06-27-2009, 02:07 PM
Why Rely On Jinn ?

SubConsciousThoughts
06-27-2009, 02:14 PM
Spirituality and religion can coincide and they work best together.

From what I seen people who we're spiritual and then began to following a religion became more closed minded. Spirituality can't coincide with religion because religion always manages to take over.

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 02:44 PM
Why Rely On Jinn ?

What do you mean by this?

From what I seen people who we're spiritual and then began to following a religion became more closed minded. Spirituality can't coincide with religion because religion always manages to take over.

That is your opinion and you have a right to it. I'm willing to leave it at that.

Peace.

Krusha
06-27-2009, 03:04 PM
Fuck religions and cults but its how you want it and i respect your choise.....

zooruka
06-27-2009, 07:42 PM
this is the only thing that needs to be said about religion:


"the only way to GOD is through JESUS CHRIST and christianity"!


PRAISE BE TO GOD

peace

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 07:49 PM
From past experiences, I suggest nobody replies to the post previous to this one as it will only derail the thread.

Peace.

diggy
06-27-2009, 08:35 PM
^^Arabic terms have many translations that mean the same thing.

This is what many have been told. It is a lie!!!

Some say that Ayat Al-Kursi is "The Verse of The Throne", others say, "The Verse of The Chair". What's the difference? They're both sitting devices and therefore, both translations are correct.

This is a poor example.




Personally, I couldn't care less what the technical terms themselves mean, because the truth surpasses all language and translation.

If you care less about what words from the Quran mean, how could you understand the Quran? It was revealed in the Arabic language for a very good reason. It is a very economical language full of meaning.

The truth surpasses language? How?

Language and words could be a pointer to the truth. If you do not care to understand the words, do you really care about the TRUTH?




Peace.

To maintain a healthy conversation, I suggest that you do not get caught up in Arabic terminology unless you continue your conversation in Arabic.

Oh, you do not care to know the meaning of some Arabic words, too?

Why must I continue this convo in Arabic?

Is English not understood by you?


I also want to point out that the best translational description of the word din in English is 'life-transaction'. This covers a wide range of meanings, and is interesting to contemplate.


Actually, that is NOT the best translation, for it is vague.

A better translation would be "prescribed way of life". And this way of life is prescribed by Allah.

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 09:01 PM
Oh, you do not care to know the meaning of some Arabic words, too?

Why must I continue this convo in Arabic?

Is English not understood by you?

On the contrary, I care greatly. However one must be very careful as to which sources one uses to gain knowledge as to avoid heedlessness.

I think you have misinterpreted my intention.

I suggest you re-read what I said.

Neither of you have a good grounding in the Arabic language. Therefore, to get caught up in Arabic terminology is a waste of time.

I never said you 'must', either.



Actually, that is NOT the best translation, for it is vague.

A better translation would be "prescribed way of life". And this way of life is prescribed by Allah.

You are mistaken. The word din does not necessarily have to refer to the Din al-Islam.

Due to this very fact, it would be naive to interpret the meaning as a 'prescribed way of life', although 'way of life' may be plausible.

An excellent definition by `Abd al-Haqq Bewley:

Din: Life-transaction, religion in the broadest sense. The din of Allah and the Muslim community is Islam but every society and cultural grouping have a din which they follow.

Peace.

diggy
06-27-2009, 09:11 PM
Neither of you have a good grounding in the Arabic language. Therefore, to get caught up in Arabic terminology is a waste of time.

You have no knowledge on what I know concerning the Arabic language, it's terminology, and interpretation.






You are mistaken. The word din does not necessarily have to refer to the Din al-Islam.

Due to this very fact, it would be naive to interpret the meaning as a 'prescribed way of life', although 'way of life' may be plausible.

An excellent definition by `Abd al-Haqq Bewley:



Peace.


The latter part agrees with my definition.

I first said deen is a "prescribed way of life".

Everyone has a deen and lives by it.

But, the deen in the Quran we are told to live by, is the only one acceptable to Allah.

So you agree with me on that part.



pre·scribe (prhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-skrhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gifbhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif)v. pre·scribed, pre·scrib·ing, pre·scribes
v.tr.

1. To set down as a rule or guide; enjoin. See Synonyms at dictate (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dictate).
2. To order the use of (a medicine or other treatment).

Cee Oh Vee
06-27-2009, 09:27 PM
You have no knowledge on what I know concerning the Arabic language, it's terminology, and interpretation.

Right, you are. I apologise for that.

The latter part agrees with my definition.

I first said deen is a "prescribed way of life".

Everyone has a deen and lives by it.

But, the deen in the Quran we are told to live by, is the only one acceptable to Allah.

So you agree with me on that part.



pre·scribe (prhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-skrhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gifbhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif)v. pre·scribed, pre·scrib·ing, pre·scribes
v.tr.

1. To set down as a rule or guide; enjoin. See Synonyms at dictate (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dictate).
2. To order the use of (a medicine or other treatment).

OK. Allow us to leave it at that.

Peace.

OB4CL2
06-27-2009, 10:47 PM
wtf is that?

SubConsciousThoughts
06-28-2009, 12:17 AM
this is the only thing that needs to be said about religion:


"the only way to GOD is through JESUS CHRIST and christianity"!


PRAISE BE TO GOD

peace

Jesus was a Jew




A Jew zombie at that

Face of the Golden Falcon
06-28-2009, 01:16 AM
^
Seriously. Just ignore Prof Zooruka posts. He hardly ever posts in KTL anymore and you don't want to encourage him to start posting in here more frequently. The majority of his posts consist of "THE ONLY WAY TO GOD IS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST AND CHRISTIANITY"...

SHEM HETEP

SubConsciousThoughts
06-28-2009, 01:37 AM
^^ Well now that I know that every time I see him post in here I'll just piss him off.

zooruka
06-28-2009, 01:44 AM
^^^^seriously the devil has blinded you to the truth...your doing exactly what he wants.


2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

this passage is talking about the devil

and

if you dont believe in JESUS CHRIST and the gospel this passage is talking about you in the sense you are being blinded by the god of this age.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 12:44 PM
^^^^seriously the devil has blinded you to the truth...your doing exactly what he wants.


2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

this passage is talking about the devil

and

if you dont believe in JESUS CHRIST and the gospel this passage is talking about you in the sense you are being blinded by the god of this age.


yall can say what yall want but i got more from this post right here than all the replies put together in this thread



The God of this age

Christ, who is the image of God.

this here is loaded with wisdom for those who can see it



Prof - when is the new age coming and who will be the god of that age ?

Christ is in the person of God - how is this so ?

Cee Oh Vee
06-28-2009, 01:00 PM
SUNNY WINTERS, I am still interested to know what you meant by this:

Why Rely On Jinn ?

Peace.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 01:35 PM
SUNNY WINTERS, I am still interested to know what you meant by this:



Peace.


why ? - i doubt that you would want to hear anything i have to say

Cee Oh Vee
06-28-2009, 01:46 PM
why ? - i doubt that you would want to hear anything i have to say

What makes you think that?

It was an incorrectly presumptuous statement to make.

If I didn't want to know your answer; I would not ask.

Regardless, you obviously don't have to tell me.

Peace.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 01:56 PM
What makes you think that?

It was an incorrectly presumptuous statement to make.

If I didn't want to know your answer; I would not ask.

Regardless, you obviously don't have to tell me.

Peace.


how did you feel when you read my reply ?


Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1610258#post1610258)
why ? - i doubt that you would want to hear anything i have to say



honestly - how did you feel ?

Cee Oh Vee
06-28-2009, 02:07 PM
how did you feel when you read my reply ?





honestly - how did you feel ?

Confused.

Let us leave it at that, I wish not to derail the thread and I have realised you will probably not tell me what you meant for a while.

Peace.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 02:14 PM
Confused.

Let us leave it at that, I wish not to derail the thread and I have realised you will probably not tell me what you meant for a while.

Peace.


there is nothing for me to tell you - look at what i spelled out

somethings need not be explained


if i plant an apple seed in the earth and you have never seen an apple before, and there was no other way for you to see one, you'd have to wait till that tree bears fruit - i can give you an understanding of what that fruit would be like - its red, it taste good, and it can make you feel good - that would be me giving you knowledge -

you gain wisdom when you finally see what it is that i described to you

but understanding comes when you bite into that apple for yourself -

too many of us eat the seed out of the earth before it comes to fruition
(does that make sense ^)

hoping to be enlightened by this process -

understanding comes in time -

prophets plant seeds - they tell the people of what is to come in the future - thats what a prophet is -

the future is now

right now !

SubConsciousThoughts
06-28-2009, 04:45 PM
I see my posts in this thread got deleted, great.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 05:01 PM
I see my posts in this thread got deleted, great.



here they go



SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Nah I kinda feel like satin feel me?

I think I should go on a killing spree, just fuck up as many people as possible, seems like the shit would go down great for me, and hey when I go to hell I'm sure they'll be a party down there, shit should be insane.




SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Word?

I'm blinded son? I guess I am, well since I'm the devil I should probably go out killing babies right? On second thought how about I just rape your little sister and dig up your great grandmother and literally fuck her skull? I mean it's all normal considering I'm the devil right?



SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Nah son fuck God, and fuck Jesus too.




SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Oh and X I seen your post before you deleted it, I take it you realized what I was doing.






there is no need for those words in this thread - this is not the place for them

SubConsciousThoughts
06-28-2009, 06:05 PM
here they go



SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Nah I kinda feel like satin feel me?

I think I should go on a killing spree, just fuck up as many people as possible, seems like the shit would go down great for me, and hey when I go to hell I'm sure they'll be a party down there, shit should be insane.




SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Word?

I'm blinded son? I guess I am, well since I'm the devil I should probably go out killing babies right? On second thought how about I just rape your little sister and dig up your great grandmother and literally fuck her skull? I mean it's all normal considering I'm the devil right?



SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Nah son fuck God, and fuck Jesus too.




SubConsciousThoughts (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/member.php?u=64035) Oh and X I seen your post before you deleted it, I take it you realized what I was doing.






there is no need for those words in this thread - this is not the place for them

Just tell me next time you think my replies warrant being deleted.

And those replies were just to fuck with that other dude.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 06:07 PM
And those replies were just to fuck with that other dude.

thats why they were deleted - the thread is not about that dude

SubConsciousThoughts
06-28-2009, 06:14 PM
thats why they were deleted - the thread is not about that dude

True, still that dude shouldn't be on this section aint like he types anything worth reading.

Anyways I kinda figured my replies would get deleted anyways and i aint one to get upset over posts I just want a heads up next time so i know why they were deleted.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 06:17 PM
True, still that dude shouldn't be on this section aint like he types anything worth reading.

as long as he's respectful and has something to say, he has that freedom to do so


Anyways I kinda figured my replies would get deleted anyways and i aint one to get upset over posts I just want a heads up next time so i know why they were deleted.


why should i give you a heads up about something that you knew was going to get deleted anyway ?

i don't have space in my life for all that

SubConsciousThoughts
06-28-2009, 06:22 PM
as long as he's respectful and has something to say, he has that freedom to do so





why should i give you a heads up about something that you knew was going to get deleted anyway ?

i don't have space in my life for all that

I'm speaking on further replies, and how exactly is he respectful? He said I was blinded by the devil and was saying Christianity was the only right religion basically, don't seem like he was being to respectful to me.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 06:27 PM
this is the only thing that needs to be said about religion:


"the only way to GOD is through JESUS CHRIST and christianity"!


PRAISE BE TO GOD

peace

Jesus was a Jew




A Jew zombie at that





^^^^seriously the devil has blinded you to the truth...your doing exactly what he wants.


2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

this passage is talking about the devil

and

if you dont believe in JESUS CHRIST and the gospel this passage is talking about you in the sense you are being blinded by the god of this age.




I'm speaking on further replies, and how exactly is he respectful? He said I was blinded by the devil and was saying Christianity was the only right religion basically, don't seem like he was being to respectful to me.




uh huh

SubConsciousThoughts
06-28-2009, 06:32 PM
uh huh

Your showing I was disrespectful which was the whole point, and again my last question still stands how exactly was he being respectful? Just because he didn't throw out any harsh words or anything don't mean he was being respectful, like I said he was implying Christianity was the only right religion and that I was "evil" that don't seem to respectful to me.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 06:35 PM
Your showing I was disrespectful which was the whole point, and again my last question still stands how exactly was he being respectful? Just because he didn't throw out any harsh words or anything don't mean he was being respectful, like I said he was implying Christianity was the only right religion and that I was "evil" that don't seem to respectful to me.


uh huh

OB4CL2
06-29-2009, 12:26 AM
This thread is dying slowly

help find a cure

donate a good post

Cee Oh Vee
06-29-2009, 12:32 AM
A'ight this is for you, OB4CL2.

Posted this in 3 places now lol.

What is the purpose of being in a sufi order?

What do you hope to achieve from the dhikr (repeating the name of Allah)?

Do you see any difference in yourself after practicing in a sufi order?

The purpose of being in a Sufi Order is to practice Sufism and to one day, God-willing, become a Sufi.

The general consensus is that you cannot practice Sufism unless you are in a tariqa (Sufi Order or Path).


Dhikr is something all muslims should do. At the stage I'm at, I only perform the adhkar (plural form of dhikr) of my tariqa for the sake of Remembrance of Allah.

However, dhikr has many benefits.


Yes, there is certainly a difference in my self having become part of a tariqa. I definitely feel closer to my Lord, to say the least.

We have a Night of Dhikr once a month, or so, which is a group gathering of all the members of the Path.

It consists of recitation of Qur`an, the wird, which is a compilation of supplications and dhikr as prescribed by my Shaykh's Shaykh; Muhammad ibn al-Habib of North Africa. May Allah have mercy on Him and pour His Light into his grave.

After this, we sing from Shaykh Muhammad ibn al-Habib's Diwan, which is a book of songs. Do not be fooled by my vague description. If you are not amazed by what you read in that book, you are not human - I am serious.

The dhikr then reaches its climax by doing the hadra. Now, the hadra is very intense and is very complex, in terms of its purpose. I shall attach a video at the bottom of this post as an example.

Then, a Sufi of our tariqa will deliver a short talk about whatever is relevant to us in this time.


I hope I gave you what you were looking for with that.

Hadra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjpMFCpRmBw&feature=PlayList&p=F23AC8F75EBE893C&index=0&playnext=1

Rollo
06-29-2009, 12:35 AM
I think humankind has an understanding that their origins are not consequencial mutations that over time gave rise to what we are.
I think we also know we are not who we are simply because of our anatomy.

The mind is not a material thing, it is not simply a fuzzy metaphor to the brain, this is best represented by the box jellyfish, an animal that literally has no brain, yet can still make calculations of how to avoid things in it's path and can distinguish color.

Further I think this notion that religion and science can never meet is a philosophy made out of fear. If we came to a nexus where science and a particular religion met at the same exact conclusion, it would upset a great many people.

I also think we need to acknowledge that this reality we know was not forged under our rational, so the presupposition that our rationalism could ever decypher it is in itslef irrational.

If all of reality were simply an illusion and the context we've come to understand it by was just a way of keeping us from awakening to a greater reality, we would never know.
Surely this is acknowledged at the beginning of this premise, if it is an illusion then we know nothing of true reality, let alone how to demonstrate it's existence.

OB4CL2
06-30-2009, 11:53 AM
I think humankind has an understanding that their origins are not consequencial mutations that over time gave rise to what we are.
I think we also know we are not who we are simply because of our anatomy.

The mind is not a material thing, it is not simply a fuzzy metaphor to the brain, this is best represented by the box jellyfish, an animal that literally has no brain, yet can still make calculations of how to avoid things in it's path and can distinguish color.

Further I think this notion that religion and science can never meet is a philosophy made out of fear. If we came to a nexus where science and a particular religion met at the same exact conclusion, it would upset a great many people.

I also think we need to acknowledge that this reality we know was not forged under our rational, so the presupposition that our rationalism could ever decypher it is in itslef irrational.

If all of reality were simply an illusion and the context we've come to understand it by was just a way of keeping us from awakening to a greater reality, we would never know.
Surely this is acknowledged at the beginning of this premise, if it is an illusion then we know nothing of true reality, let alone how to demonstrate it's existence.


good contribution

DrBold241
06-30-2009, 02:05 PM
Post your thoughts on religion. You may say anything about religion. If you are against it or with it. Anything, just share with us.

organized religion appears to be one of the earliest forms of government/mass control.
so on the subject of "religion" i'm strongly against the ideas of following laws that have been changed within the hundreds of years they've been around for the sake of control.
let's not forget the hypocrisy that comes with the territory either. "thou shall not kill"- more people have died/been killed in the name of god more than anything else. "turn the other cheek/love thy neighbor/etc" only seems to apply to those who listen to the same invisible man in the sky that you do; most religious folks have no problem truly loathing those who don't follow their religion, and sometimes even those that do (like gay christians).
not only that, but if so many people through their various beliefs are so comfortable with the idea of an "apocalypse/judgment day" then they are only enabling it to happen as opposed to trying to prevent it and thus allowing the human species to advance. i think religious fundamentalism is one of the major factors stopping our society from advancing.


on a side note, if someone's religious in the personal/spiritual sense...... well to each their own, nothing wrong with it. just as long as they keep in mind that it's a PERSONAL belief.

and if we would like to touch on the subject of evolution vs creationism...... that's no contest. creationism is completely illogical where as evolution may be a theory but it's supported by numerous facts/discoveries.

i personally lost faith in a higher power once actually noticing what all goes on in the world, most of which in the name of religion.
i think we can be our own gods. you're the one who controls your life, not god.

SubConsciousThoughts
06-30-2009, 02:07 PM
organized religion appears to be one of the earliest forms of government/mass control.
so on the subject of "religion" i'm strongly against the ideas of following laws that have been changed within the hundreds of years they've been around for the sake of control.
let's not forget the hypocrisy that comes with the territory either. "thou shall not kill"- more people have died/been killed in the name of god more than anything else. "turn the other cheek/love thy neighbor/etc" only seems to apply to those who listen to the same invisible man in the sky that you do; most religious folks have no problem truly loathing those who don't follow their religion, and sometimes even those that do (like gay christians).
not only that, but if so many people through their various beliefs are so comfortable with the idea of an "apocalypse/judgment day" then they are only enabling it to happen as opposed to trying to prevent it and thus allowing the human species to advance. i think religious fundamentalism is one of the major factors stopping our society from advancing.


on a side note, if someone's religious in the personal/spiritual sense...... well to each their own, nothing wrong with it. just as long as they keep in mind that it's a PERSONAL belief.

and if we would like to touch on the subject of evolution vs creationism...... that's no contest. creationism is completely illogical where as evolution may be a theory but it's supported by numerous facts/discoveries.

i personally lost faith in a higher power once actually noticing what all goes on in the world, most of which in the name of religion.
i think we can be our own gods. you're the one who controls your life, not god.

Co-sign literally everything in this post.

DrBold241
06-30-2009, 02:18 PM
^^ thank you. i believe in peace, happiness, and intellectualism.
ill will/conflict in most cases seems to be quite unnecessary in this world..... a concept that religion supposedly has a grasp on but due to it's followers clearly doesn't.
happiness..... like i said, just do whatever helps you sleep at night; as long as you're not causing yourself/others harm why should i or anyone else for that matter care what you do behind closed doors?
and intellectualism i'd say goes together with peace, it's only once we have a true understanding of who we are and just how short life can be aids in the general understanding that life is only about personal gain for the sake of survival. but once you mix technology into the equation it all gets a bit more complicated.
with the powers at be (i mean those fundamentalist folks) it's more likely we are to end our species before spreading it. by that i mean, the earth is dying. we can choose to try and sustain life on this planet until we can find another place to go and thus using technology for the good of society or we choose not to acknowledge fundamentalism as the psychological disease it is and rather just let those with power kill this planet with nuclear explosions and take us with it.
am i paranoid? no, but fact is fallout is a possibility unless we decide as a society to try and find peace and knowledge and through those two- happiness.

(please excuse whatever grammatical errors i have in there, hope the point was made clear enough though)

Rollo
06-30-2009, 07:58 PM
"thou shall not kill"- more people have died/been killed in the name of god more than anything else.



The crusades were about a trade route that went through the holy land, not about religion itself, the wars of the old testament happened because the hebrews wanted to create their own nation, Hitler was not a believer in God, the French revolution was carried out largely by atheists and so was the massacre of slavs by the USSR after world war 2.


Religion is just a vehicle, it's the person behind the vehicle who can use it for good or evil.

Also, what is not written in the bible could fill libraries over and over. Part of which is the distinguishment between killing and taking lives in combat. Moses had more than the ten commandments, the traditional bronze age hebrew believed that killing was murder in cold blood. Not ending people's lives in military engagements. We don't define things the way we used to.

You have to consider context when you comment on things like that.


and if we would like to touch on the subject of evolution vs creationism...... that's no contest. creationism is completely illogical where as evolution may be a theory but it's supported by numerous facts/discoveries.



Creationism is not illogical, Isaac Newton was not illogical, the naturalists of the enlightenment period were not illogical, granted I don't believe in a literal translation of Genesis which is what creationism means, but still, just because something doesn't follow your logic or rational doesn't mean it follows absolutely no logic or rational.

And with all due respect, there are creationists who have made contributions to natural science all over the world. What contributions have YOU made to natural science at all?

I don't think you're in any position to pidgeon hole their significance, if you'd like to be, go to college lol

Not trying to be a dick, just saying. Anyone can pound their chest and say "Fuck you fundies! You're nuts!!!" but that doesn't make it correct just because you declare it.


Similarly, the quantum being an intelligible language requires that there be an intelligible source that created it. Everything in the spatio-temporal realm or material universe is part of that language, so an immaterial intelligence that predates time itself, if that's not a God or deity what is?

Just saying....

DrBold241
06-30-2009, 09:18 PM
nice rebuttal, but by illogical i mean the idea that our entire species came from only two people...... who some say existed the same time as all other life did on this planet, including dinosaurs..... makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Rollo
06-30-2009, 10:26 PM
nice rebuttal, but by illogical i mean the idea that our entire species came from only two people...... who some say existed the same time as all other life did on this planet, including dinosaurs..... makes no sense to me whatsoever.



Well now, we don't divide life by types the way the ancients did. Genesis says God created life that was seen in that time, it never said life would never change. Similarly with Adam and Eve, it never said he never tried the same thing any place else.

As for the young earth theory, that's actually not original creationism, I find it perplexing as well. However, I would say due to evolutionary stasis, we see species that pre-date the dinosaurs alive and well today. There are many many creatures we newly discover all the time, which lends credibility to the notion that some dinosaurs may have lingered on into human history.

The problem with zoology, is often that bones are a rare find. Take for instance man's supposed common ancestors, we literally have only a few skeletons and yet it is a known fact that for speciation to occur it takes thousands upon thousands of generations to initiate single mutations and thousands more for a single mutation to become fixed/set.

This to me makes universal common ancestory as much a matter of faith as anything else.

I think 19th century naturalism brought us so far, by the evolutionary land scape is going to continue to change and at some point we're going to end up looking at the Neo-Darwinian mechanism as a joke.

As for the God issue itself, I find God rather bizarre. When God spoke to Moses he had Moses construct a gate so the Israelites would not be harmed, God approached Ezekial in a vehicle of sort and in Genesis we read "Let us make man in our image"

Where does "our" come from? Why would his presence harm the israelites and why does he have a vehicle?

I don't know, it's confusing yet so oddly specific, it seems a stretch stick waving hebrews thousands of years ago would actually make up something like that just to fuck with people.
Why not do the simple thing and say God's wrath is the thunder and lightning every time it storms?

Similarly when we look at the Myans, their supreme God had blonde hair and pale white skin. My problem here is Myans never met any Europeans pre spanish occupation, how the fuck would they even know you could have blonde hair and pale skin?

LORD NOSE
06-30-2009, 11:35 PM
how did yall find out about this site ?


or are yall veterans returning with different names ?

OB4CL2
07-09-2009, 07:48 PM
keep this thread alive

Face of the Golden Falcon
07-09-2009, 10:31 PM
Religion; from religare - to bind fast...

... this can be taken 2 different ways I guess. The first would be to say that religion binds people. Ties them up. Holds them back. Stops them from reaching their full potential. Keeps them closed minded, bound to a particular way of thinking, acting etc. Binds them the way a slave is bound.

The other way is to say, well, bind fast to what? At the core of religion is God. To bind fast to God, to realize that "I and the Father are One" needs to be the foundation teaching of religion.

It definitely seems that what is called "religion" by the masses falls under the first explanation. If the focus was on what was explained in the 2nd then things, I think would be a lot different.

...but so long as "religions" foundation is in fear instead of love it will continue to enslave minds instead of free them.

SHEM HETEP

Black Man
07-10-2009, 10:18 AM
Religion; from religare - to bind fast...

... this can be taken 2 different ways I guess. The first would be to say that religion binds people. Ties them up. Holds them back. Stops them from reaching their full potential. Keeps them closed minded, bound to a particular way of thinking, acting etc. Binds them the way a slave is bound.

The other way is to say, well, bind fast to what? At the core of religion is God. To bind fast to God, to realize that "I and the Father are One" needs to be the foundation teaching of religion.

It definitely seems that what is called "religion" by the masses falls under the first explanation. If the focus was on what was explained in the 2nd then things, I think would be a lot different.

...but so long as "religions" foundation is in fear instead of love it will continue to enslave minds instead of free them.

SHEM HETEP

Peace.

Understood.

E.U. means hillside and R.O.P.E. means the rope to bind in (4:14)

To add on.....in both situations religion is still in error as you made it obvious in the first example, yet it's not clear in the second example.

In the second example, even binding a person to God isn't right and exact because it's still making them a slave and doesn't allow for Freedom, which will comprimise their power.

Peace.

LORD NOSE
07-10-2009, 10:48 AM
....have children and let them do what they want how they want and where they want

no - bind those children to their parents -

let those parents do what they want where they want how they want to do it..............

Black Man
07-10-2009, 11:14 AM
....have children and let them do what they want how they want and where they want

no - bind those children to their parents -

let those parents do what they want where they want how they want to do it..............

Islam is a way of life.

Those who live that way of life don't 'bind' any person, those who live the culture of islam bond (with people) and bond is life.

Yacub binds his people and followers while Allah bonds with his people.

Husband and Wife are binded to their children.

God and Earth bond with their children.

FOI and MGT bond with their children.

LORD NOSE
07-10-2009, 11:28 AM
Islam is a way of life.

Those who live that way of life don't 'bind' any person, those who live the culture of islam bond (with people) and bond is life.

Yacub binds his people and followers while Allah bonds with his people.

Husband and Wife are binded to their children.

God and Earth bond with their children.

FOI and MGT bond with their children.


when you let those children do what they want where they want and how they want, what are the results and who are they ?

when you let those parents do what they want where they want and how they want, who are those parents, what are the results ?


those are people who need to be binded/ put into submission -

who doesn't need to submit ?


what happens when we don't submit ?


nice pictures are painted but what is the reality ?

Black Man
07-10-2009, 02:34 PM
when you let those children do what they want where they want and how they want, what are the results and who are they ?

when you let those parents do what they want where they want and how they want, who are those parents, what are the results ?


those are people who need to be binded/ put into submission -

who doesn't need to submit ?


what happens when we don't submit ?


nice pictures are painted but what is the reality ?

People love them some religion.

LORD NOSE
07-10-2009, 03:00 PM
yes they do

i love me some order though

Black Man
07-10-2009, 03:08 PM
yes they do

i love me some order though

religion and slavery have order

LORD NOSE
07-10-2009, 03:09 PM
so does the sun moon and stars

Black Man
07-10-2009, 03:29 PM
so does the sun moon and stars

the sun moon and stars have order because of a bond, not because they're binded or put into submission

there's no freedom justice or equality when the sun moon and stars have to be binded or put into submission

Cee Oh Vee
07-10-2009, 03:47 PM
The word you're looking for is bound, not binded.

Black Man
07-10-2009, 03:58 PM
The word you're looking for is bound, not binded.

Proper Education Always Corrects Errors.

Bound not binded....:frusty:

Good look.

Peace.

Cee Oh Vee
07-10-2009, 04:00 PM
Thank you, peace.

LORD NOSE
07-10-2009, 04:01 PM
Bind



1 a: to make secure by tying b: to confine, restrain, or restrict as if with bonds c: to put under an obligation <binds himself with an oath> d: to constrain with legal authority
2 a: to wrap around with something so as to enclose or cover b: bandage (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bandage)
3: to fasten round about
4: to tie together (as stocks of wheat)
5 a: to cause to stick together b: to take up and hold (as by chemical forces) : combine with
6: constipate (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/constipate)
7: to make a firm commitment for <a handshake binds the deal>
8: to protect, strengthen, or decorate by a band or binding
9: to apply the parts of the cover to (a book)
10: to set at work as an apprentice : indenture (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indenture)
11: to cause to have an emotional attachment
12: to fasten together <a pin bound the ends of the scarf>intransitive

verb1 a: to form a cohesive mass b: to combine or be taken up especially by chemical action <antibody binds to a specific antigen>2: to hamper free movement or natural action3: to become hindered from free operation4: to exert a restraining or compelling effect <a promise that binds>





Bond


1: something that binds or restrains : fetter (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetter)
2: a binding agreement : covenant (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/covenant)
3 a: a band or cord used to tie something b: a material or device for binding c: an attractive force that holds together the atoms, ions, or groups of atoms in a molecule or crystal d: an adhesive, cementing material, or fusible ingredient that combines, unites, or strengthens
4: a uniting or binding element or force : tie (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tie) <the bonds of friendship>
5 a: an obligation made binding by a money forfeit ; also : the amount of the money guarantee b: one who acts as bail or surety c: an interest-bearing certificate of public or private indebtedness d: an insurance agreement pledging surety for financial loss caused to another by the act or default of a third person or by some contingency over which the third person may have no control6: the systematic lapping of brick in a wall

7: the state of goods made, stored, or transported under the care of bonded agencies until the duties or taxes on them are paid

8: a 100-proof straight whiskey aged at least four years under government supervision before being bottled —called also bonded whiskey9: bond paper (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bond+paper)