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ALCATRAZ
07-05-2009, 01:13 PM
what is your personal opinion of man playing the role of god?

ALCATRAZ
07-05-2009, 01:14 PM
sunny can you add a poll please? with two options of whether you agree with the death penalty ... props

Shogah
07-05-2009, 01:23 PM
I made a similar thread long time ago, and i given it much thought

If the sentence is aimed against one individual and his sin, than i'm against cause it doesn't contribute to anything even to the victim's family/friends it won't be helpful on the long run.(i guess)

But if the sin, that one individual committed is the root of much bigger problem that affects the whole nation or the whole continent, for example you have death penalties in south eastern asia for drug dealers. That penalty is so harsh because the drug problem is big, bigger than in europe or america so the penalty is adequate.

You have whole families dying because of that and small children ruining they're lives because of that. So in that case yes.


So i don't approve death penalty that targets one person and his sin.

But i approve death penalty that targets much bigger problem and it's purpose is warning to other people who contribute that problem(drug trafficking, kidnapping etc).

If you believe in god let him to judge each person and his sin, but we should also take care about ourselves and cut the problem in its roots, sometimes very radically.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
07-05-2009, 01:26 PM
Is the death penalty man playing god? Then isn't sending a man to jail playing god? Are soldiers playing god? Are suicide bombers?

I don't know how that I can give a definitive answer, but I do believe in justice. And for any society to function, there has to be law and justice.

I also think that there are people out there who cannot be rehabilitated and are simply "bad" people.

Does that mean they deserve to die? I don't know, but I do know that if someone raped my girl for killed my mom, that I would want them to die, even if I had to take it in to my own hands.

ALCATRAZ
07-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Is the death penalty man playing god?

you know what i mean

RALPH WIGGUM
07-05-2009, 02:36 PM
Is the death penalty man playing god? Then isn't sending a man to jail playing god? Are soldiers playing god? Are suicide bombers?

I don't know how that I can give a definitive answer, but I do believe in justice. And for any society to function, there has to be law and justice.

I also think that there are people out there who cannot be rehabilitated and are simply "bad" people.

Does that mean they deserve to die? I don't know, but I do know that if someone raped my girl for killed my mom, that I would want them to die, even if I had to take it in to my own hands.

It's all about justice, killing somebody because he killed somebody else is not justice, it is revenge. Thats why death penalty is inappropriate.
Of course you would want them to die, you would want to revenge, but thats not the role of justice.

Ghost In The 'Lac
07-05-2009, 02:40 PM
Homicide's illegal and death is the penalty
What justifies the homicide, when he dies
In his own iniquity?, it's the
Master of the Mantis Rapture coming at you

/dead.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
07-05-2009, 03:01 PM
It's all about justice, killing somebody because he killed somebody else is not justice, it is revenge. Thats why death penalty is inappropriate.
Of course you would want them to die, you would want to revenge, but thats not the role of justice.

What a generic, testicle-less response

First of all, how can one person's definition of justice be more valid than another?

What is justice for a rapist or murderer? Who decides it? You?

You don't think anyone deserves to be punished, ever?

Can vengeance not be just?

Ghost In The 'Lac
07-05-2009, 03:05 PM
Dan, no offence dude, but your jewish lol, you dont havea say in the matter becaus you have no soul or compasion.

akhnaten.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
07-05-2009, 03:13 PM
Dan, no offence dude, but your jewish lol, you dont havea say in the matter becaus you have no soul or compasion.

akhnaten.


Ah yes, the British have no melanin, and are therefore sub-human

Luza
07-05-2009, 03:15 PM
You don't think anyone deserves to be punished, ever?

Can vengeance not be just?

he does think that criminals deserve to be punished, but the should not die. how does it help anyone if a murderer gets murdered himself?

RALPH WIGGUM
07-05-2009, 03:17 PM
What a generic, testicle-less

First of all, how can one person's definition of justice be more valid than another?

What is justice for a rapist or murderer? Who decides it? You?

You don't think anyone deserves to be punished, ever?

Can vengeance not be just?

I'm not proposing a definition of justice. The truth is, justice and vengeance are two completely different things, and they can't be mixed.
You're looking at the situation childishly.

Murdering somebody is not a sanction, it is plain revenge, and no revenge is not just, revenge is an act of anger, you don't think clearly when you want to revenge, its as simple as that.

Who decides if somebody's gonna get executed? You?

Sky Blue Danny Kid
07-05-2009, 03:21 PM
he does think that criminals deserve to be punished, but the should not die. how does it help anyone if a murderer gets murdered himself?

The murderer has shown that he has the capacity to take an innocent life. What if he murders again? What if he kills another inmate?

Say the murderer will not murder again.... How does it help anyone for him to go to prison?

Is everything forgivable?

Is not seeking vengeance commendable? Is it human?

LORD NOSE
07-05-2009, 03:24 PM
what is your personal opinion of man playing the role of god?


what are the main differences in man and god ?

what is a vicegerent ?




Al-Baqarah Chapter 2 : Verse 31



And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’ they said: ‘Wilt Thou place therein such as will cause disorder in it, and shed blood? — and we glorify Thee with Thy praise and extol Thy holiness.’ He answered: ‘I know what you know not.’






Sad Chapter 38 : Verse 27




‘O David, We have made thee a vicegerent in the earth; so judge between men with justice, and follow not vain desire, lest it should lead thee astray from the way of Allah.’ Surely those who go astray from the way of Allah will have a severe punishment, because they forgot the Day of Reckoning.

















http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/images/pix.gif

Sky Blue Danny Kid
07-05-2009, 03:26 PM
I'm not proposing a definition of justice. The truth is, justice and vengeance are two completely different things, and they can't be mixed.
You're looking at the situation childishly.

Murdering somebody is not a sanction, it is plain revenge, and no revenge is not just, revenge is an act of anger, you don't think clearly when you want to revenge, its as simple as that.

Who decides if somebody's gonna get executed? You?

I look at the situation realistically. You look at the situation from a non-human viewpoint.

What is justice?

Seeking vengeance or retribution for a misdeed committed against someone is the very foundation of the human concept of justice.

Luza
07-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Say the murderer will not murder again.... How does it help anyone for him to go to prison?

Is everything forgivable?

Is not seeking vengeance commendable? Is it human?

well, at least it helps him and the probability of murdering again after 15 years in prison is very low (except he is a psycho). i think everyone should get a second chance.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
07-05-2009, 03:33 PM
well, at least it helps him and the probability of murdering again after 15 years in prison is very low (except he is a psycho). i think everyone should get a second chance.

You think going to prison "helps" someone?

Luza
07-05-2009, 03:34 PM
more than killing him.

RALPH WIGGUM
07-05-2009, 03:34 PM
I look at the situation realistically. You look at the situation from a non-human viewpoint.

What is justice?

Seeking vengeance or retribution for a misdeed committed against someone is the very foundation of the human concept of justice.

No you're not looking at it realistically. You're putting on one side the poor helpless people that needs to get revenge, and on another side the ruthless criminals that must be executed. Criminals are humans. WThey are to be fairly judged.
Vengeance has everything to do with emotions, which is what you base your arguments on, while justice is based on reason. You're not judged by your victims, because that wouldn't be just.

Reparation is justice. Vengeance is not reparation.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
07-05-2009, 03:51 PM
No you're not looking at it realistically. You're putting on one side the poor helpless people that needs to get revenge, and on another side the ruthless criminals that must be executed. Criminals are humans. WThey are to be fairly judged.
Vengeance has everything to do with emotions, which is what you base your arguments on, while justice is based on reason. You're not judged by your victims, because that wouldn't be just.

Reparation is justice. Vengeance is not reparation.

Being judged by your victims isn't just?

Ive never thought about that, but I don't know that I agree with that.

But that is not my point. You are nonetheless admitting that criminals should be judged. Of course it should be fair. But again, who decides what is "fair" ?

Do people "need" revenge? Why do people seek revenge?

ALCATRAZ
07-05-2009, 04:22 PM
i dont understand how u can go to school to be a judge to cast judgement over someones life ... isnt that what 'god' does in the most general sense?

HANZO
07-05-2009, 04:39 PM
well you can make the case that sentencing a man to prison for the rest of his life is a bigger punishment then giving him the death penalty.

Slide
07-05-2009, 05:28 PM
I think For The Death Penalty

Mumm Ra
07-05-2009, 05:39 PM
whenever I think about the death penalty or extended jail time I think about Malcolm - once a person is completely reformed do they still deserve the penalties enforced by man that they incurred before they made a complete self-transformation?
do they deserve to be denied the chance to reform themselves?
should justice BE the reforming of a criminal?
The murderer has shown that he has the capacity to take an innocent life. What if he murders again? What if he kills another inmate?
back to Malcolm - while not a murderer, was selling drugs and women as a youngster - a real detriment to society. Maybe even contributed to the death of some drug users. He had the capacity to continue bringing his society down, but he also had the capacity to uplift millions.
Who's to make the call?

I'm not even sure of all these questions myself - just throwing them out there.

J.T.S.
07-06-2009, 02:48 PM
aNYONE WHO HURTS A CHILD OR A OLD PERSON SHOULD BE STONED!

ALCATRAZ
07-06-2009, 03:07 PM
what if that person is mentally unstable??

Mumm Ra
07-06-2009, 03:24 PM
^ and how is justice served to a society that breeds these type of people??
or is that society not accountable?
aNYONE WHO HURTS A CHILD OR A OLD PERSON SHOULD BE STONED!
I prefer to do it sober.

SubConsciousThoughts
07-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Against it.

Considering this justice system is flawed and there is never 100% certainty that the accused is actually guilty then there's always the chance that the person is innocent.

And if there was an 100% certainty some how then life in prison would be worse anyways.

drippie k
07-06-2009, 05:56 PM
i don't think the death penalty is right but then again, if murderers stay in jail for life, thats more of our tax dollars keeping those fuckers alive

Charles Barry
07-07-2009, 05:39 AM
I am against the death penalty. I don't have the right to decide whether another person lives or dies no matter how I may feel about their actions.

RALPH WIGGUM
07-07-2009, 09:47 AM
Being judged by your victims isn't just?

Ive never thought about that, but I don't know that I agree with that.

But that is not my point. You are nonetheless admitting that criminals should be judged. Of course it should be fair. But again, who decides what is "fair" ?

Do people "need" revenge? Why do people seek revenge?

Well I never said that criminals shouldn't be judged. I'm only talkin about death penalty here.
People want revenge, I wouldn't say they need it, they need to get reparation. When a murderer goes to jail, thats a reparation for the victims, but its not vengeance, its just what he deserves.
But when a murderer is murdered, it creates more murderers. Its not justice, its lex talionis.
Why do people seek revenge? Thats a good question, maybe you should make a thread about it.