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DUMBO
07-07-2009, 05:04 AM
and if he isn't, why should we care that the romans got his alien ass.

Mumm Ra
07-07-2009, 05:15 AM
I've never seen him myself

LORD NOSE
07-07-2009, 11:17 AM
Hey Zeus - why did they name him this or did they really name him this ?

his name was supposed to be Immanuel -




Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:13-15 (in Context) Isaiah 7 (Whole Chapter)





Isaiah 8:8
and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it, passing through it and reaching up to the neck. Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land, O Immanuel !"
Isaiah 8:7-9 (in Context) Isaiah 8 (Whole Chapter)





Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."
Matthew 1:22-24 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)



now what does jesus mean ?


hey zeus

Mic Tyson
07-07-2009, 01:19 PM
"fuck a pagan jesus, worship the black prophets"

Ol' Dirty Trixˣ
07-07-2009, 02:45 PM
he was a jew.

LORD NOSE
07-07-2009, 02:50 PM
whats the difference between a jew and a hebrew ?


if he was a jew, he'd be one because his father, Joseph was a jew - but its said that joseph is not his father - so how is jesus a jew ?


the bible says that joseph is his father - why do people skip over this part ?

Ol' Dirty Trixˣ
07-07-2009, 03:29 PM
joseph left the poor bastard when he was just a kid.

Ol' Dirty Trixˣ
07-07-2009, 03:31 PM
i know it doesn't say that in the bible, but i'm guessing that's what happened.

Koolish
07-07-2009, 03:45 PM
whats the difference between a jew and a hebrew ?


if he was a jew, he'd be one because his father, Joseph was a jew - but its said that joseph is not his father - so how is jesus a jew ?


the bible says that joseph is his father - why do people skip over this part ?
joseph was married to mary

Genesis 2:
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

froth
07-07-2009, 04:26 PM
Hey Zeus - why did they name him this or did they really name him this ?

his name was supposed to be Immanuel -




Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:13-15 (in Context) Isaiah 7 (Whole Chapter)





Isaiah 8:8
and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it, passing through it and reaching up to the neck. Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land, O Immanuel !"
Isaiah 8:7-9 (in Context) Isaiah 8 (Whole Chapter)





Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."
Matthew 1:22-24 (in Context) Matthew 1 (Whole Chapter)



now what does jesus mean ?


hey zeus
this is where youre wrong, if you knew hebrew, you would know that old testament uses of 'virgin' not only in isaiah but also in jeremiah, was mistranslated into greek. the hebraic word means 'young maiden', who often happen to be virgins, but were not exclusively so. this is why so called 'prophesies' about 'virgin' births often occur mid sentence and out of context. because they arent prophesies. they were co-opted much later to be prophesies. i learned this from a teacher of hebraic studies.

the idea of the virgin birth and the resurrection is an almagram of older stories, most obviously seen in egypt/kemet

when the bible was translated there were many other interesting misconnotations, such as with the sodom and gomorrah story

the jews believed in a messiah. jesus (whatever you want to call him) was smart enough to claim he was the messiah (like countless other zealots of the day) bc it gave him credibility. and by all accounts jesus knew his scripture, thus he rode in on a donkey for example to 'fulfill' 'prophesy'

Slide
07-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Yeah Jesus is a person

DUMBO
07-07-2009, 05:14 PM
a dead person

*close thread*

Urban_Journalz
07-07-2009, 05:20 PM
^^They got that one wrong too.

zooruka
07-07-2009, 11:52 PM
whats the difference between a jew and a hebrew ?


if he was a jew, he'd be one because his father, Joseph was a jew - but its said that joseph is not his father - so how is jesus a jew ?


the bible says that joseph is his father - why do people skip over this part ?

it`s through your mother that you are really jewish that is the rule!!!! it goes back to isaac and ishmael....ishmaels mother was hagar the slave ( i think she was eygptian) and isaacs mother was sarah abrahams true wife and it was through sarah and abrahams child that the covant and the nation of hebrew israelites would be established which is through isaac`s son jacob (who`s sons later became the twelve tribes of israel) and from that point on to be called a real jew it has to be through your mother beacuse sarah not hagar was abrahams true wife and through her child the covant and the nation would be established.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
07-08-2009, 02:52 AM
this is where youre wrong, if you knew hebrew,'


i asked 2 questions and made one statement - how am i wrong ?

i placed those scriptures there to note that the child will be named immanuel - i didn't place those scriptures there for us to discuss whether mary was a virgin or not -


so where am i wrong ?

LORD NOSE
07-08-2009, 03:11 AM
it`s through your mother that you are really jewish that is the rule!!!! it goes back to isaac and ishmael....ishmaels mother was hagar the slave ( i think she was eygptian) and isaacs mother was sarah abrahams true wife and it was through sarah and abrahams child that the covant and the nation of hebrew israelites would be established which is through isaac`s son jacob (who`s sons later became the twelve tribes of israel) and from that point on to be called a real jew it has to be through your mother beacuse sarah not hagar was abrahams true wife and through her child the covant and the nation would be established.


peace be with you !

in the bible, what i read was always a run down of the men connected to the man it was addressing at that time - here is a geneology of jesus according to matthew 1 - read carefully




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LOUDBIRD/BIRTH.jpg



jesus christ the son of david - the son of abraham - it proceeds to run down the men who came from abraham -

this scripture is running down the blood line correct ?

jesus is a part of this bloodline correct ?

now - why wasn't he named immanuel ?

NIGHT MAYOR
07-08-2009, 03:38 AM
jesus is the sun. in a few places on earth the sun is at its lowest area of the sky it stays there for three days and then rises. sound familiar ?

christianity is a religion that stole all its stories from previous religions.

no historians that were alive when jesus was, recoded such a man.

you realy are all sheep.
:frusty:

CLOSE - THREAD

Slide
07-08-2009, 04:45 AM
Yeah DUMBO

Shogah
07-08-2009, 06:16 AM
What does the whole zeus thing has to do with jesus as a person.

Whatever you call him, he was a real life person that lived in the beginning of the first milenium.

Shogah
07-08-2009, 06:19 AM
jesus is the sun. in a few places on earth the sun is at its lowest area of the sky it stays there for three days and then rises. sound familiar ?

christianity is a religion that stole all its stories from previous religions.

no historians that were alive when jesus was, recoded such a man.

you realy are all sheep.
:frusty:

CLOSE - THREAD

I also watched some tv shows and read couple thing of that.

I suppose in that time the skies and the stars were greatest mystery for the man, so there is that theory that the whole christianity is based on astrological happenings and stars.....
And that birthdate of Jesus is the same birthdate of some previous characters from some previous religions dating to some pagan religions and even to greece.


Can someone who is a bit more familiar with that theory break that stuff in more details?

froth
07-08-2009, 04:48 PM
so where am i wrong ?
you are wrong because those verses from Isaiah do not refer to jesus

read the verses in context, almost all so called prophesy coming from isaiah and jeremiah is basically one sentence out of an entirely unrelated story

the name Immanuel is an interesting topic. I think it only occurs three times in the bible. by my summation, since the idea of a 'virgin' must immediately be thrown from the conversation (see my previous posts on the translation of 'virgin' in the old testament), 7:14 lacks that prophetic punch, and is really just the mention of a name. without the virgin connotation, and reading the verse in context, only an uneducated or idiotic man would surmise that Isaiah just threw a verse in about Jesus, totally unrelated, jumping hundreds of years in the future for a verse then switching back to the previously scheduled program.

this is why most reputable biblical scholars always stress context. also knowing a thing or two about jewish history helps. or actually reading the thing as opposed to searching for one verse to support a senseless idea, however appealing the idea is

as for matthew, im sure you are aware of the disrpencies between the gospels, so there is no real need to expound upon it other than to say that historical anthropologists dont doubt the existence of jesus, but it must be noted that 3 of the gospels are written in a popular style of the period they were written, that is as a travel drama. theres an abundance of info on this. stories were embellished and told in a way that was entertaining to read, with a familiar plot arc. also, at the time of jesus and after, religious writings and sects were obsessed with the coming of the messiah. jesus and many, many others claimed to be the messiah, and used old testament verses to back it up. jesus by all accounts was the undisputed master of this, amazing scholars with his knowledge. if you want to see a funny portrayal of this messianic mania, watch monty pythons life of brian

at any rate, the verse in matthew, all of the gospels and others are 'borrowing' not only from the old testament to give credibilty to messianic claims, but they also 'borrow' the virgin birth from kemet/egypt. they then later cop the exact artwork as well, the whole image of virgin with child is taken directly from egypt. its practically piecemeal, if you have done the knowledge. }:| the resurrection itself is an old old old concept and appears in many myths, probably to the dawn of time or at least agriculture really since the idea is so fundamental, the death/rebirth myths are even prevelant in american indian tribes, and other areas geographically isolated for millenia

these stories may also be derived from some original source, since there are so many shared myths all thru time and all over the world.

but i digress, as for vrse Isaiah 8:8, knowing what i do about the context of the verse as well as the translations applicable to the prior verse in chapter 7, i dont believe it refers to jesus. there is no evidence remaining to suggest so. suggesting so would have no basis in logic, science, reason...anything but blind faith i guess, or stubborness to change your opinion

thats where youre wrong, hope that helps!O:|

Dr. Simon Hurt
07-08-2009, 05:25 PM
jesus was not a person; there's no historical record of his existence...the first mention of him in a historical record is a century after his supposed lifetime.

the twelve disciples are the signs of the zodiac.

jesus was the last son of krypton for ancient times.

none of this invalidates the teachings espoused in his name or the example he was meant to set however.

LORD NOSE
07-08-2009, 06:36 PM
you are wrong because those verses from Isaiah do not refer to jesus

read the verses in context, almost all so called prophesy coming from isaiah and jeremiah is basically one sentence out of an entirely unrelated story

the name Immanuel is an interesting topic. I think it only occurs three times in the bible. by my summation, since the idea of a 'virgin' must immediately be thrown from the conversation (see my previous posts on the translation of 'virgin' in the old testament), 7:14 lacks that prophetic punch, and is really just the mention of a name. without the virgin connotation, and reading the verse in context, only an uneducated or idiotic man would surmise that Isaiah just threw a verse in about Jesus, totally unrelated, jumping hundreds of years in the future for a verse then switching back to the previously scheduled program.

this is why most reputable biblical scholars always stress context. also knowing a thing or two about jewish history helps. or actually reading the thing as opposed to searching for one verse to support a senseless idea, however appealing the idea is

as for matthew, im sure you are aware of the disrpencies between the gospels, so there is no real need to expound upon it other than to say that historical anthropologists dont doubt the existence of jesus, but it must be noted that 3 of the gospels are written in a popular style of the period they were written, that is as a travel drama. theres an abundance of info on this. stories were embellished and told in a way that was entertaining to read, with a familiar plot arc. also, at the time of jesus and after, religious writings and sects were obsessed with the coming of the messiah. jesus and many, many others claimed to be the messiah, and used old testament verses to back it up. jesus by all accounts was the undisputed master of this, amazing scholars with his knowledge. if you want to see a funny portrayal of this messianic mania, watch monty pythons life of brian

at any rate, the verse in matthew, all of the gospels and others are 'borrowing' not only from the old testament to give credibilty to messianic claims, but they also 'borrow' the virgin birth from kemet/egypt. they then later cop the exact artwork as well, the whole image of virgin with child is taken directly from egypt. its practically piecemeal, if you have done the knowledge. }:| the resurrection itself is an old old old concept and appears in many myths, probably to the dawn of time or at least agriculture really since the idea is so fundamental, the death/rebirth myths are even prevelant in american indian tribes, and other areas geographically isolated for millenia

these stories may also be derived from some original source, since there are so many shared myths all thru time and all over the world.

but i digress, as for vrse Isaiah 8:8, knowing what i do about the context of the verse as well as the translations applicable to the prior verse in chapter 7, i dont believe it refers to jesus. there is no evidence remaining to suggest so. suggesting so would have no basis in logic, science, reason...anything but blind faith i guess, or stubborness to change your opinion

thats where youre wrong, hope that helps!O:|

understood

zooruka
07-08-2009, 07:05 PM
in the bible, what i read was always a run down of the men connected to the man it was addressing at that time - here is a geneology of jesus according to matthew 1 - read carefully


Jewish law requires that a child be identified as Jewish or not by what the mother is because you always know who the mother is, but not always the father. (Okay, there are extreme cases where a child is abandoned or stolen, and then no one knows what the kid is, but that's not the norm.) Even when two people are married, you cannot be sure that the husband is the child's father. So Jewishness passes through the mother. Judaism is a tribal religion. You can't just believe (in fact, belief isn't required), you just have to be a member of the tribe.

froth
07-08-2009, 07:07 PM
i dont want to be harsh on the bible, that would be stupid, the torah is one of the most amazing things in the world. a lot of stuff is still speculation since it can never be proven, and i admit that, but its looking at most likely things. and also the power of belief is a strange thing, there are studies where placebos work better than the actual drugs, so you really get what you make out of whatever path you take, if someone sincerely believe something they are reality for the person, im not denying miracles, or trying to shit on anything.

LORD NOSE
07-08-2009, 07:11 PM
Jewish law requires that a child be identified as Jewish or not by what the mother is because you always know who the mother is, but not always the father. (Okay, there are extreme cases where a child is abandoned or stolen, and then no one knows what the kid is, but that's not the norm.) Even when two people are married, you cannot be sure that the husband is the child's father. So Jewishness passes through the mother. Judaism is a tribal religion. You can't just believe (in fact, belief isn't required), you just have to be a member of the tribe.

understood - why isn't this the case in the bible ?

Visionz
07-08-2009, 07:20 PM
i dont want to be harsh on the bible, that would be stupid, the torah is one of the most amazing things in the world. a lot of stuff is still speculation since it can never be proven, and i admit that, but its looking at most likely things. and also the power of belief is a strange thing, there are studies where placebos work better than the actual drugs, so you really get what you make out of whatever path you take, if someone sincerely believe something they are reality for the person, im not denying miracles, or trying to shit on anything.I wish everyone could come to these boards with this understanding. I get caught up in it myself from time to time. Reading the boards lately, one might think I'm trying to bash the catholic church. Granted there's actions there I really don't agree with at the same time I can't tell someone else what path they should be walking and I have to have respect for whatever it is that one chooses.

The motivations behind some of these recent threads is to show certain individuals (ok, Zooruka) that there's holes in ideology no matter where you look. Respect and tolerance shouldn't be limited just people themselves but their beliefs as well. I'm not sure if my attempts to turn the tables has made him realize anything.

diggy
07-08-2009, 08:28 PM
jesus is the sun. in a few places on earth the sun is at its lowest area of the sky it stays there for three days and then rises. sound familiar ?

christianity is a religion that stole all its stories from previous religions.

no historians that were alive when jesus was, recoded such a man.

you realy are all sheep.
:frusty:

CLOSE - THREAD



A lot of things were added, deleted and modified in the bible to appease different religious groups.

The Council of Nicaea most likely played a part in that.

Dr. Simon Hurt
07-09-2009, 12:53 PM
why wasn't this done as a poll?