PDA

View Full Version : The Bible got the value of Pi wrong.

Ghost In The 'Lac
07-25-2009, 05:35 PM
"the word of god?"

That the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle is the same for all circles, and that it is slightly more than 3, was known to Ancient Egyptian, Babylonian, Indian and Greek geometers. The earliest known textually evidenced approximations date from around 1900 BC; they are 25/8 (Babylonia) and 256/81 (Egypt), both within 1% of the true value.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#cite_note-adm-3) The Indian text Shatapatha Brahmana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana) gives π as 339/108 ≈ 3.139. The Hebrew Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible) appears to suggest, in the Book of Kings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kings), that π = 3, which is notably worse than other estimates available at the time of writing (600 BC).

Now Pi is one, if not the most important mathematical constant ever found. It is the ratio of any circles circumfrence to its diameter.

its one of the most puzzling and mysterious things known to man, its a infinite number, trancendental, and still isnt understood by man.

more on the bibles words on pi:

Biblical value

It is often claimed that the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible) states that π is exactly 3, based on a passage in 1 Kings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_Kings) 7:23 (ca. 971-852 BCE) and 2 Chronicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Chronicles) 4:2 giving measurements for the round basin located in front of the Temple in Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_in_Jerusalem) as having a diameter of 10 cubits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubit) and a circumference of 30 cubits. Rabbi Nehemiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Nehemiah) explained this in his Mishnat ha-Middot (the earliest known Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew) text on geometry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometry), ca. 150 CE) by saying that the diameter was measured from the outside of the brim while the circumference was measured along the inner rim. The stated dimensions would be exact if measured this way on a brim about four inches wide (one "handbreath" in width, as stated in 1 Kings 7:24 and 2 Chronicles 4:3).
The interpretation of the Biblical passage is still disputed[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_numerical_approximations_of_%CF%80#cite _note-10)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_numerical_approximations_of_%CF%80#cite _note-ahop-11), however, and other explanations have been offered, including that the measurements are given in round numbers (as the Hebrews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews) tended to round off measurements to whole numbers[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]), or that cubits were not exact units, or that the basin may not have been exactly circular, or that the brim was wider than the bowl itself. Many reconstructions of the basin show a wider brim (or flared lip) extending outward from the bowl itself by several inches.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_numerical_approximations_of_%CF%80#cite _note-12)

Obviously, as all things, it can be interpreted in different ways. Bible bashers try to tell us it was only the inside measurements, i think this is a major reach. Its not something they would do.

if your not deep in pi knowledge, i suggest you do the knowledge, quick.

This is a good page for beginners if you read it all.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7296224.stm

3.14 and the rest

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44491000/jpg/_44491967_pyrm_getty_203.jpg Pi can be found in the design of the pyramids at Giza

By David Blatner
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif

It's Pi Day, a celebration of the mathematical ratio that man has been trying to unlock for millennia. But why are we driven to find the answers behind it? As we're all taught at school, pi represents the number you get when you divide the distance around a circle (its circumference) by the distance across (the diameter).
With just a string and a ruler you can quickly measure that pi must be just over three-and-an-eighth (3.125). With more precise measurements, you may be able to narrow it down to 3.14.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif SLICE OF PI
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif 3.1415926535 8979323846 2643383279 5028841971 http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif

However, if you ask a typical maths nerd, you'll get an earful of pi - 3.14159265 and so on. A surprising number of students have memorised 50 or even 100 digits after the decimal point.
The rough ratio of pi 3.14 gives us the date for Pi Day. March 14, or 3/14 in American dating style, makes sense for a celebration of this famous constant.
Coincidentally, Pi Day is also the birthday of Albert Einstein, who no doubt knew more than a little about pi. Pi Day celebrants, usually children with an enthusiastic teacher and a varying degree of personal interest in the subject, learn about pi, circles, and, if they're lucky, eat baked pies of various sorts.
Famous constant
Some classes offer prizes for memorising the most digits of pi, or for creating interesting mnemonic devices. Count the letters in each word of this classic poem:
Sir, I bear a rhyme excelling
In mystic force and magic spelling.
Pi, more commonly known by the 16th letter of the Greek alphabet, is the most widely-known mathematical constant in the world. Even long after people forget their school lessons, they still recognise the symbol.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44491000/jpg/_44491962_crop_ap_203.jpg Aliens/hoaxers also need pi

Pi conjures a sense of mystery, so the symbol makes regular appearances in popular culture - it's the secret code in both Alfred Hitchcock's Torn Curtain and the Sandra Bullock vehicle The Net.
And while pi is a number, its importance goes far beyond simple geometry. Pi represents a deep universal mystery - how is it that something this basic, this fundamental to maths and science, could turn out to be so incredibly difficult to pin down?
In fact, it's literally impossible to know what pi is, because its digits rattle off into infinity.
While there are many infinitely long numbers in maths, pi is the only one in which an infinitely simple idea - the circle - unfolds into an infinitely complex value. This paradox drives many people to distraction.
Life's work
One of the most endearing and enduring qualities of humans is that we're so often sure that we can find the answer to any problem if we just try hard enough. For 3,500 years, humankind has attempted to solve the puzzle of pi, also called "squaring the circle", calculating the exact ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. However, no matter how hard anyone tries, they find only a new approximation.
In ancient Greece, the great mathematician Archimedes worked tirelessly to discover the ratio, uncovering only a few digits of accuracy. When he tried to stop a Roman soldier from blundering over his work by shouting "do not touch my circles" he was unceremoniously murdered.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44491000/jpg/_44491961_sculpture_pa_203.jpg Pi is in art

By the time Ludolf van Ceulen died in 1610, he had spent many years of his life tediously calculating pi, resulting in only 35 accurate digits. And in 1873, William Shanks announced he had found 707 digits over years of hand-cramping work; unfortunately, he had made a mistake after the 527th place. The following digits were all wrong.
The most recent attempt, by a Japanese computer scientist in 2002, found 1.24 trillion digits of pi. To put all this in perspective, even an astrophysicist, attempting to measure galaxies, would never need more than 10 or 15 digits of precision. But pi beckons us on further. Some mathematicians believe that if we could only find some pattern in pi, even some hint that there were more fours than sevens, it could lead to a huge breakthrough in our understanding of the universe.
The late physicist Carl Sagan, in his novel Contact, imagined a time when Earth scientists were sufficiently able to unravel enough of pi to find encoded messages from our creators-messages that would allow our primitive race to leap into a greater universal awareness. After all, if you were going to hide a long numeric message in the very fabric of our reality, pi would be a natural place to do it.
Fundamental equations
Nevertheless, pi continues to frustrate. In the late 19th Century, it was categorically proven that pi was infinitely long and could not be solved with any finite number of equations. That hasn't stopped modern-day circle-squarers, who continue to claim that mathematicians are wrong and that pi is really just 3 or 3.25 or some other finite-but-erroneous answer.

Pi Day is a time to honour not just a number and our fascination with it, but also the essential truth that there are some things we simply cannot know. We can only get close to knowing.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44491000/jpg/_44491966_iris_splcr_203.jpg We have pi in our eyes

Pi shows up everywhere. In mathematics, pi appears in many fundamental equations that have nothing to do with circles. In science, pi is inextricable from measuring everything from ocean waves to economic statistics.
Pi is found in the very measurements of the Great Pyramid at Giza. And if you divide the length of a river from source to mouth across a gently sloping plane by its direct length "as the crow flies", you'll find pi.
Pi also appears where you least expect it. Religious scholars point to the Old Testament which, when describing the measurements of Solomon's Temple, implies that pi is only three. In the transcripts of the famed OJ Simpson trial, you can find arguments between the judge and an FBI agent about the actual value of pi.
For a time, Givenchy offered a men's cologne emblazoned only with the symbol. Nobel Prize winner Wislawa Szymborska wrote a poem about pi, and pop star Kate Bush sang 100 digits of pi on her album Aerial.
In this age of high-tech precision instruments, where we assure ourselves that perfection is attainable, pi is an ever-present, sometimes grating reminder that there are puzzles that can be solved and there are mysteries that, perhaps, can not.
David Blatner is the author of The Joy of Pi.

As well as wikipedias VERY good page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

So yeah basically god said Pi was a ratio of 3:1. Which it clearly isnt, and even the egyptians 2,000 years before the bible knew it wasnt.

Why would God make such a huge mistake if he is "all knowing".

And on the subject, if God is all knowing, why hasnt he just told us everything we need to know already? Like how to get free energy and save the planet and stuff.

Word.

Rode Block
07-26-2009, 12:48 AM
In this age of high-tech precision instruments, where we assure ourselves that perfection is attainable, pi is an ever-present, sometimes grating reminder that there are puzzles that can be solved and there are mysteries that, perhaps, can not.

That's deep.

I doubt anyone else is gonna bother reading this thread though. Mathematics doesn't seem to be a popular subject here.

Face of the Golden Falcon
07-26-2009, 01:55 AM
PEACE...

...this is good stuff. Your probably not going to get much opposition from anyone other than Zooruka though. Simple answer: the Bible was not written by God.

SHEM HETEP

soul controller
07-26-2009, 11:31 AM
peace ghostlaced.. you suprised me!,. ill check this in a while.. when igot time to read :) peace sir

Olive Oil Goombah
07-26-2009, 11:46 AM
very interesting indeed.

Ghost In The 'Lac
07-26-2009, 04:13 PM
shits incredible.
The fact that Pi exists is basically indicating one of 2 things
-Our system of mathematics is completely wrong, or
-Proof that there are alot of things we will never understand until we discover the unified theory of everything as they call it (which could be linked to Pi)

Because it totally fucked, that even today, we cant even work out what the exact ratio of a circles diameter to its circumfrence is.

It sounds so simple. It is simple to to with other shapes.

But for the circle, its seemingly impossible to figure out. No one can swaure the circle either (i.e correlate the area of a square to a circle, it cant be done)

What i personally think about Pi, is that its an indication of the infinite nature of the constantly dividing fractal universe, that probably is dividing in a circle nature. Which is why we cannt pin down the circles ratio to itself.

The Egyptians knew all about it, Pi is deeply ingraned into their biggest pyramid, they had to go to ALOT of trouble to build the Pyramid this way, obviously Pi was a central theme to its construction (even though its rarely ever mentioned)

http://www.gizapyramid.com/pifirst.gif

^^Qoute:

Textbooks on history and mathematics tell us that the Greeks discovered the relationship of pi. Pi is the relationship between the radius of a circle and its circumference. The mathematical formula is:

Circumference = 2 * pi * radius (C = 2 * pi * r)

That is in any size circle you draw, this relationship will always hold true. Thus if you measure its radius and multiply it by 2 and pi, this will always equal the circumference of that circle. It appears that the value of pi was built into the Great Pyramid of Giza, hundreds of years before the Greeks allegedly discovered it. How was this value built into the great pyramid? The vertical height of the pyramid holds the same relationship to the perimeter of its base (distance around the pyramid) as the radius of a circle bears to its circumference.

If we equate the height of the pyramid to the radius of a circle, than the distance around the pyramid is equal to the circumference of that circle.

That's deep.

I doubt anyone else is gonna bother reading this thread though. Mathematics doesn't seem to be a popular subject here.

PEACE...

...this is good stuff. Your probably not going to get much opposition from anyone other than Zooruka though. Simple answer: the Bible was not written by God.

SHEM HETEP

anything not to do with race, religion, or other superstious shit gets pushed back these days.
back a few years though it was different, people would build on science and mathematics more. ive made science threads in here that bomb alot.

AcidPhosphate69
07-26-2009, 04:29 PM

Art Vandelay
07-27-2009, 05:20 AM
i always wondered what if instead of 10 digits, what if we had 11, or 9 or any other number. how would that effect mathematical equations?

Ghost In The 'Lac
07-27-2009, 07:19 AM
i always wondered what if instead of 10 digits, what if we had 11, or 9 or any other number. how would that effect mathematical equations?

It wouldnt have any effect, because most modern equations and calculus are based upon the decimal numeral system (base 10). So they wouldnt exist without it.

You can use other "bases" for maths if you like, but the base 10 system is by far the most popular. Its just a construct to perform maths under. Its also the most useful and clear for mathematics.

Computers use the binary numeral system, which only has 2 digits, 0 and 1. This works fine for computers. Also computing can use the hexadecimal, which has 16 digits.

But the point is, it is all working out the same shit, just using different base systems.

THe Mayans used a 20 base numeral system, but mathematics was still mathamatics.

Cee Oh Vee
07-27-2009, 12:36 PM
Interesting shit.

LORD NOSE
07-27-2009, 01:11 PM
very very interesting

THE W
07-27-2009, 03:07 PM
those biblical verses they referenced dont say anything about pi. what translation are they reading?

THE W
07-27-2009, 03:39 PM
And on the subject, if God is all knowing, why hasnt he just told us everything we need to know already? Like how to get free energy and save the planet and stuff.

Word.

mankind doesnt want to save the planet. they want to have money and be powerful which is why man has made all sorts of technologies that have destroyed the planet.

God giving us the ability to live off the land wasnt good enough for us.

djskillz
07-29-2009, 05:11 AM
That shit is deep. I don't think we as humans will ever fully grasp mathematics. It's like looking at the maker's blueprint. We can see the numbers but we won't know why they're there or how they make the world as we know it.

DrBold241
08-14-2009, 03:57 PM
bump, threads against religious bs FTW.

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-14-2009, 04:00 PM
That shit is deep. I don't think we as humans will ever fully grasp mathematics. It's like looking at the maker's blueprint. We can see the numbers but we won't know why they're there or how they make the world as we know it.

wordddd

Uncle Steezo
08-17-2009, 03:14 AM
what falcon said. god didn't write the bible. but god did write pi.

a circle is perfection. a number that goes on forever cannot be defined. just like perfection cannot be defined. well actually you can. drawing a perfect circle.

if you graph a circular pattern over time you get a spiral. aka helix. aka dna.

pi and the golden ratio are found everywhere. its almost like a signature. but whose?

the pyramids have many mathematical facts built into their construction.
the mass of the earth
the circumference of the earth
celestial movements
they are like physical textbooks

Ghost In The 'Lac
01-08-2010, 02:04 PM
http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/studyguide/jpgs/pi_diagram.jpg

And supposedly the Greeks discovered Pi.

Yeah right.

SID
01-08-2010, 02:12 PM
The bible was wrong about a lot of things.

Ghost In The 'Lac
03-14-2010, 03:08 PM
bump for Pi day!! (3/14) (http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/03/14/happy-pi-day-2/)

03-14-2010, 03:59 PM
We estimate it as 3.14, the bible estimates it as 3.

The problem I think is that we're using the wrong number system. Maybe 10 base is wrong. We should play around until we figure it out. Perhaps if we find the correct one all the ratios will stop repeating on forever because we're dividing things differently. Although this is a half baked idea I just concluded at random.

I quite like 8 base. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20...
Seven base: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, 20...
Eleven base (which would be great on clocks): 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, X, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 1X, 20...
Twelve base: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, X, ~, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 1X, 1~, 20...

The fun continues.

Frank Sobotka
03-14-2010, 04:05 PM

Really shows how primitive we really are

Ghost In The 'Lac
03-14-2010, 04:09 PM
We estimate it as 3.14, the bible estimates it as 3.

lol what

Its not estimated, its calculated, to as accurately as is possible, to infinity. The bible however I guess you could say they "estimated" it, as they got it so wrong.

The problem I think is that we're using the wrong number system. Maybe 10 base is wrong.

lol its got nothing to do with that. that has no bearing on anything. math is math. our metric system is the best their is. it wouldnt make any difference anyway. Pi is always pi.

03-14-2010, 04:13 PM
Yeah I know, but I'm throwing out bad ideas. I even said that in my own post.

No I mean we both round it off. The moderners tend to think 3.14 is close enough to work. Perhaps he ancients thought 3 was good enough. Engineers usually go to the 5th+ decimal. It's person to person. Whoever wrote the bible was lazy. Saying "The bowl was X wide and 3.14X around doesn't sound as good.

Ghost In The 'Lac
03-14-2010, 04:48 PM
Oh yeah, I get you.

That might make sense until you go back to the point that the Bible is supposed to be the word of God. Not just some ancient book writers who decided 3 was "good enough"

SID
03-14-2010, 05:37 PM
what falcon said. god didn't write the bible. but god did write pi.

a circle is perfection. a number that goes on forever cannot be defined. just like perfection cannot be defined. well actually you can. drawing a perfect circle.

if you graph a circular pattern over time you get a spiral. aka helix. aka dna.

pi and the golden ratio are found everywhere. its almost like a signature. but whose?

the pyramids have many mathematical facts built into their construction.
the mass of the earth
the circumference of the earth
celestial movements
they are like physical textbooks