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The Grandmaster
07-25-2009, 07:06 PM
I know most of yall r gonna say 2pac but just tell me exactly how is he better.

ALCATRAZ
07-25-2009, 08:08 PM
one star thread by a one star poster

Twiztid-Wutang
07-25-2009, 09:26 PM
How the hell are Lupe and Pac even comparable, Different styles, different eras of hip hop

oDoUoSoKo
07-25-2009, 10:08 PM
Lupe

The Grandmaster
07-25-2009, 10:47 PM
exactly what i expected.

I DEFY ONLY ONE POSTER TO EXPLAIN TO ME CLARLY HOW IS 2PAC BETTER THAN LUPE FIASCO IN ANY WAY.

Spectrum7glr
07-25-2009, 10:52 PM
better voice, better flow, better live performer, a lot more of material, huge influence
I agree with twiztid_wutang, not really comparable, but if you really want to, Pac wins easy
I'm sure even Lupe would say that
I don't like Lupe, Wayne or Souja Boy so I guess our opinion will be different, but it's all good !

Drunken Monk
07-25-2009, 11:04 PM
hahaha what a stupid question

joe245
07-25-2009, 11:08 PM
I don't like Lupe, Wayne or Souja Boy !

Funny how you mention Lupe with those two, as if he was on the same shit as them. He's easily one of the best and most relevant rappers today.

Spectrum7glr
07-25-2009, 11:16 PM
Funny how you mention Lupe with those two, as if he was on the same shit as them. He's easily one of the best and most relevant rappers today.
Wow you really didn't understand. I said those 3 because the guy has a Soulja Boy quote and 2 Lil Wayne pictures.
Never said those 3 were on the same level.

joe245
07-25-2009, 11:21 PM
Ahh I see :) Sorry, never really took notice to the sig/pictures.

Back on subject... Lupe and Pac are so different. Although, I do think Tupac is quite overrated.

The Grandmaster
07-26-2009, 12:19 AM
no explanation just like i expected.

spectrum all u basically said was just that 2pac is a better rapper....why?

fact is lupe >>> pac

ALCATRAZ
07-26-2009, 12:49 AM
2pac shot at cops and beat the case


lupe could never get on pacs level

oDoUoSoKo
07-26-2009, 12:56 AM
i think the intent of the thread was to ask if 2pac is better lyrically, to which i again reply...no. point blank...fuck popularity and influence...Hitler was an influential writer...dont make him a better writer than, shit..Tom Clancy for example.

ALCATRAZ
07-26-2009, 01:04 AM
yo dusk make another post that says "lupe fiasco is a better lyricist than 2pac" so i can throw it in my sig, right on

Khem The Decepticon
07-26-2009, 01:45 AM
Theyre too different to compare.

Khem The Decepticon
07-26-2009, 01:46 AM
Lupe Fiasco is a better lyrist that 2Pac. There use that for your sig. And i mean it too.

The Grandmaster
07-26-2009, 01:48 AM
the intend of the thread is wut u fkn read in my first post and title

how, in any manner, is tupac shakur superior in rapping than lupe fiasco?

SKAMPOE
07-26-2009, 01:54 AM
exactly what i expected.

I DEFY ONLY ONE POSTER TO EXPLAIN TO ME CLARLY HOW IS 2PAC BETTER THAN LUPE FIASCO IN ANY WAY.
yo, lupe is just a regular rapper who raps rap...

pac, pac wasnt a rapper, he was a spokes person for the people...our people.

most cats here cant relate, but they do relate with that kick push punk rap lol werd


pac = hiphop culture

lupe = punk rap

ALCATRAZ
07-26-2009, 02:02 AM
Lupe Fiasco is a better lyrist that 2Pac. There use that for your sig. And i mean it too.

why would i quote you youre nobody on wucorp lol .... ol other ass nigga

Khem The Decepticon
07-26-2009, 02:16 AM
yo, lupe is just a regular rapper who raps rap...

pac, pac wasnt a rapper, he was a spokes person for the people...our people.

most cats here cant relate, but they do relate with that kick push punk rap lol werd


pac = hiphop culture

lupe = punk rap

Lupe is more Hipster Rap.

SKAMPOE
07-26-2009, 02:26 AM
the intend of the thread is wut u fkn read in my first post and title

how, in any manner, is tupac shakur superior in rapping than lupe fiasco?

any one man can put werds to gether n call it a rap... imo there has to be subsatnce behind the rhymes...realness...

cats have it fucked up. hiphop is a culture, ''they'' now are mass producing it, so the over saturation has cut the shit like coke makin it less potent n cheaper,

hahahaha fuck all this typing shit.
pac>>>lupe

The Hound
07-26-2009, 07:08 AM
Terrible baiting thread but for starters 2Pac had a better subject matter which he delivered with better lyrics with an impeccable flow which made the listener sit up and take notice no matter what the fuck he said.

As for how is he a superior rapper? That point was already covered a few posts back:

Better delivery
Better lyrics
Better entertainment
Better subject matter
Better diversity
Better albums
Better legacy

Nobody will remember Lupe Fiasco in 15 years time.

Instead of asking how 2Pac is better than Lupe why don't you outline where Lupe is better than 2Pac instead of sitting here and just brushing off the facts that have been presented.

i think the intent of the thread was to ask if 2pac is better lyrically, to which i again reply...no. point blank...fuck popularity and influence...Hitler was an influential writer...dont make him a better writer than, shit..Tom Clancy for example.

No he wasn't, he was an influential public speaker. Anybody who has read Mein Kampf knows it is nothing more than nonsensical rants that don't make one bit of sense that contradicts itself the longer the book goes on. Hitler proved with that book that he couldn't clarify his thoughts from mind to paper which makes him a terrible writer.

oDoUoSoKo
07-26-2009, 10:19 AM
Lupe Fiasco is a better lyricist than 2pac. Right on.

oDoUoSoKo
07-26-2009, 10:23 AM
Terrible baiting thread but for starters 2Pac had a better subject matter which he delivered with better lyrics with an impeccable flow which made the listener sit up and take notice no matter what the fuck he said.

As for how is he a superior rapper? That point was already covered a few posts back:

Better delivery
Better lyrics
Better entertainment
Better subject matter
Better diversity
Better albums
Better legacy

Nobody will remember Lupe Fiasco in 15 years time.

Instead of asking how 2Pac is better than Lupe why don't you outline where Lupe is better than 2Pac instead of sitting here and just brushing off the facts that have been presented.



No he wasn't, he was an influential public speaker. Anybody who has read Mein Kampf knows it is nothing more than nonsensical rants that don't make one bit of sense that contradicts itself the longer the book goes on. Hitler proved with that book that he couldn't clarify his thoughts from mind to paper which makes him a terrible writer.
thats an opinion...but tons of peole cite that as an inspiration...just perhaps not u


and people honestly needto fucking let go of thr fact that 2pac is a "legend" it makes me so fucking sick....granted, he was a great speaker, performer, and hell..even rapper...but now he has this armor on him because hes dead, and so many people consider him a legend, that one someone makes a thread about Lupe being a better lyricist than him.....everyone is forced to sway towards pac's favor...point is, straight up, Lupe is a better lyricist than pac was..period..and i dont necessarily mean content, but im not excluding that either.

oDoUoSoKo
07-26-2009, 10:29 AM
2 more things, let it be noted that i own more pac albums than lupe albums....(despite the fact lupe only has 2) and i was a HUGE pac fan

also let it be noted im not a huge Lupe fan, and lastly, saying that Lupe wont be remembered in 15 years has to do with popularity, not lyricism...and ive seldom seen a case where someone is remembered in 15 years for their lyricism...thats certainly not the case with pac.

SKAMPOE
07-27-2009, 01:44 PM
2 pac is a legend fool, look at every thing he did in his life every thing he went thru...
wtf is lupe doin ither than kickin n pushing a white boys toy...skateboard

SKAMPOE
07-27-2009, 01:46 PM
for real cats that understand wat it is, pac was like the jesus christ of the rap game

Dirty Knowledge
07-27-2009, 03:05 PM
Pac and Lupe would have a cypher
Pac would start spittin wild
Lupe would be scared to say shit after that
Cuz Pac's coming with
"And these white folks just can't staaaand me"
And Lupe's all
"I got a Kool Aid SMile and a Halfpipe Mind"
Wtf son
Superiority
It's just a Preference either way so whoever you live ya life closer to whoever you relate to more you'll relate to that rapper better

SKAMPOE
07-27-2009, 03:10 PM
repped^ could have not said that better^ peace

food for thought
07-27-2009, 03:14 PM
yo dusk make another post that says "lupe fiasco is a better lyricist than 2pac" so i can throw it in my sig, right on
__________________

hahaha real shit.




threadtrarter is a fucking dumbass.

who the fuck is lupe, nigga?


dont ever disrespect the god.

food for thought
07-27-2009, 03:17 PM
why would i quote you youre nobody on wucorp lol .... ol other ass nigga

ahahahahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

my nigga got me dying

oDoUoSoKo
07-27-2009, 09:55 PM
why isnt anyone who past the 3rd grade debating with me? read my last fuckin posts.

War and Peace
07-27-2009, 10:42 PM
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/OTBOTB1/7b0c5b729341f19a.jpg


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/OTBOTB1/0874c5cba4487662.jpg


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/OTBOTB1/yyll.jpg


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/OTBOTB1/9ee16456706a0462.jpg


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/OTBOTB1/483fb21030d7a9ee.jpg


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/OTBOTB1/f19a434e75d43ef4.jpg


Wl54ABY8VgY

oDoUoSoKo
07-28-2009, 11:08 PM
smh

ALCATRAZ
07-29-2009, 02:49 AM
2pac > tha sucka in ur sig^^

EAGLE EYE
07-29-2009, 03:07 AM
haha wow


how is this even a thread.



This is like comparing Arcade Fire to The Beatles

hectis
07-29-2009, 03:51 AM
was lupa a skateboard rapper who got exposed as someone who never skateboards, or am I thinking of someone else?

DrunkenMasta303
07-29-2009, 08:24 AM
ppl R so easy to impress & so quikk to 4get

the scarecrow
07-29-2009, 02:37 PM
2pac is overrated imo

oDoUoSoKo
07-29-2009, 07:23 PM
was lupa a skateboard rapper who got exposed as someone who never skateboards, or am I thinking of someone else?
no ur thinking of the gangster rapper who wasnt ganster til after he started rapping...LMAO...exposed.

oDoUoSoKo
07-29-2009, 07:26 PM
this thread is such a wste of time because its absolutely void of logic...arguments are...2pac is a legend..and Lupe didnt actually skateboard...smfh....Hip Hop Shop Is Dead (produced by speakonitgod)

ALCATRAZ
07-30-2009, 02:40 AM
you live in new york and cant find a smoke shop u lose

SKAMPOE
07-30-2009, 02:47 AM
Ahhahaha

food for thought
07-30-2009, 02:52 AM
lol @ the faggot trying to have a serious discussion about why we pick pac over skateboard kid

Mic Tyson
07-30-2009, 03:10 AM
this is a stupid ass discussion. who the fuck would even try to compare 2pac to a faggot ass wannabe kanye nigga? lupe hasn't even done shit to be considered anywhere near any great rappers' level.

The Hound
07-30-2009, 05:16 AM
2pac > tha sucka in ur sig^^

Listen, punk. To me you're nothin' but dogshit, you understand? And a lot of things can happen to dogshit. It can be scraped up with a shovel off the ground. It can dry up and blow away in the wind. Or it can be stepped on and squashed. So take my advice and be careful where the dog shits ya!

METHODKillah36
07-30-2009, 07:44 AM
Case closed, we have officially determined that Tupac Shakur is better than Lupe Fiasco.

What will the day throw at Wu-Corp next?

ALCATRAZ
07-30-2009, 01:55 PM
Listen, punk. To me you're nothin' but dogshit, you understand? And a lot of things can happen to dogshit. It can be scraped up with a shovel off the ground. It can dry up and blow away in the wind. Or it can be stepped on and squashed. So take my advice and be careful where the dog shits ya!
you've changed ur username over 3 times in the last year you are bitchmade

Dr. Simon Hurt
07-30-2009, 02:09 PM
i would say lupe's probably a better lyricist when it comes to wordplay, metaphors, and thematic songs where symbolism is used to represent an idea or used as an allegory...but 2pac made better songs, and actually made songs that could make you feel something.

basically, lupe's more intellectual (in a superficial way, i haven't really heard him get socially conscious or political or whatever label you want to give the 'in the struggle-fuck the establishment' type rap) and technique driven, where pac's shit was more visceral, his technique, rhyme schemes, and extended metaphors weren't complex, but he knew how to play on people's emotions.

i'm not a huge fan of either one, but i would have to give it to 2pac on versatility, charisma, and ability to make street people listen to 'conscious' rap where everyone after him has failed to do that and just preaches to the choir (college kids, conspiracy theorists, NOI and NGE types).

they're really completely different types of mcs though. better comparison would be 2pac vs. Nas, they both walked that fine, often contradictory line between being street novelist and social commentator.

The Hound
07-30-2009, 05:45 PM
you've changed ur username over 3 times in the last year you are bitchmade

No, I just basically highlighted that you have no idea who the "sucka" in Dusk's sig is and you confirmed it by believing that was my thoughts in my own words - carry on Asian boy.

Dr. Simon Hurt
07-30-2009, 05:58 PM
^^^^^
http://pokebeach.com/scans/secret-wonders/112-squirtle.jpg

The Hound
07-30-2009, 06:13 PM
Hmmmm. Okay. ^^^^

http://biology.mcgill.ca/faculty/fussmann/photos/people/gregoryKramer.jpg

oDoUoSoKo
07-30-2009, 09:36 PM
i would say lupe's probably a better lyricist when it comes to wordplay, metaphors, and thematic songs where symbolism is used to represent an idea or used as an allegory...but 2pac made better songs, and actually made songs that could make you feel something.

basically, lupe's more intellectual (in a superficial way, i haven't really heard him get socially conscious or political or whatever label you want to give the 'in the struggle-fuck the establishment' type rap) and technique driven, where pac's shit was more visceral, his technique, rhyme schemes, and extended metaphors weren't complex, but he knew how to play on people's emotions.

i'm not a huge fan of either one, but i would have to give it to 2pac on versatility, charisma, and ability to make street people listen to 'conscious' rap where everyone after him has failed to do that and just preaches to the choir (college kids, conspiracy theorists, NOI and NGE types).

they're really completely different types of mcs though. better comparison would be 2pac vs. Nas, they both walked that fine, often contradictory line between being street novelist and social commentator.
THANK YOU...now close thread...someone actually fuckin made sense, tho i would agree to a certain degree...i would say u should def. listen to more Lupe, because its less "superficial" as u go along. and also whatever is highlighted in red...should show y this thread should be closed....logic, man.

12weLvE
07-30-2009, 10:23 PM
Lupe!!!! Sorry not a Tupac fan. I can listen to his classic joints, but nothign of his really other than the usual suspect joints got to me.

Lupe is freshness. Both of his albums have ridiculous play value. And he is more creative with the lyrics. However in Pacs defence... They are two completely different rappers, and the comparison fails.

But who do I listen to more... Lupe

R.I.P Pac... A true legend for sure.

SKAMPOE
07-30-2009, 10:27 PM
i would say lupe's probably a better lyricist when it comes to wordplay, metaphors, and thematic songs where symbolism is used to represent an idea or used as an allegory...but 2pac made better songs, and actually made songs that could make you feel something.

basically, lupe's more intellectual (in a superficial way, i haven't really heard him get socially conscious or political or whatever label you want to give the 'in the struggle-fuck the establishment' type rap) and technique driven, where pac's shit was more visceral, his technique, rhyme schemes, and extended metaphors weren't complex, but he knew how to play on people's emotions.

i'm not a huge fan of either one, but i would have to give it to 2pac on versatility, charisma, and ability to make street people listen to 'conscious' rap where everyone after him has failed to do that and just preaches to the choir (college kids, conspiracy theorists, NOI and NGE types).

they're really completely different types of mcs though. better comparison would be 2pac vs. Nas, they both walked that fine, often contradictory line between being street novelist and social commentator.
.

ALCATRAZ
07-31-2009, 03:11 AM
if you picked lupe you are a fagget

DR. NICK RIVIERA
07-31-2009, 06:09 AM
Lupe, lol how is this even an issue? The question is lyricist!!!! Not everything else that was thrown in the mix.. so what if he never really skateboard, GZA made Killah Hills 10304 and I doubt that's a true story...Pac made Open Fire and I won't cry about it how that was never real...

Lyrically, Lupe is somewhere near Monch.







Now if we would compare Nas n Pac, that's going to be a funny too. If both died at the same time, Nas would've had A GREATER LEGACY WITH JUST TWO ALBUMS, and a few featurings.....where Pac WOULD NEVER BE HELD LYRICALLY AS GREAT AS NAS WAS AT THE TIME.

The Hound
07-31-2009, 01:41 PM
The question isn't lyricist the question is who is better and shit like rocking a crowd, microphone presences, discography, aura, lyricism and content are all relevant and 2Pac shits all over Lupe in all areas here.

Rebel_INS
07-31-2009, 06:51 PM
How the hell are Lupe and Pac even comparable, Different styles, different eras of hip hop

I agree lol. Lupe is a dope emcee though.

oDoUoSoKo
07-31-2009, 08:49 PM
The question isn't lyricist the question is who is better and shit like rocking a crowd, microphone presences, discography, aura, lyricism and content are all relevant and 2Pac shits all over Lupe in all areas here.
the question is lyricist.

Dr. Simon Hurt
07-31-2009, 08:56 PM
^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post

and i swear i'm one of only about 10 people who post here that has reasoning skills beyond those of a 5 year old.

11th Chamber
07-31-2009, 08:56 PM
lol at this even being a debate

I mean holy shit just put the classic tracks these two have made next to each other and its ridiculous. Lupe is nice and all, but cmon....

im staying away from this one, this shouldent have made it 4 pages long

Poetic Wun
08-01-2009, 02:23 AM
How the hell are Lupe and Pac even comparable, Different styles, different eras of hip hop
this post was ironic due to the poster... no disrespect tho.

i think the intent of the thread was to ask if 2pac is better lyrically, to which i again reply...no. point blank...fuck popularity and influence...Hitler was an influential writer...dont make him a better writer than, shit..Tom Clancy for example.
lol@Clancy... but this kinda resurfaces the Meth/Budden beef... "METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND"
so....

thats an opinion...but tons of peole cite that as an inspiration...just perhaps not u


and people honestly needto fucking let go of thr fact that 2pac is a "legend" it makes me so fucking sick....granted, he was a great speaker, performer, and hell..even rapper...but now he has this armor on him because hes dead, and so many people consider him a legend, that one someone makes a thread about Lupe being a better lyricist than him.....everyone is forced to sway towards pac's favor...point is, straight up, Lupe is a better lyricist than pac was..period..and i dont necessarily mean content, but im not excluding that either.
word up... although Pac could've been better till Suge brain washed him.. Conscious heads HAVE TO consider 2pacalypse a fuckin classic & Strictly was bangin too (save "I'll Get Around")... after that he turned into some homo thug instead of keepin with the message.

for real cats that understand wat it is, pac was like the jesus christ of the rap game
nigga nigga nigga *smh*... give respect where respect is due but c'mon... and don't say it's cause i can't relate cause it sure as fuck ain't that. lol that was kinda extreme... but your opinion

no ur thinking of the gangster rapper who wasnt ganster til after he started rapping...LMAO...exposed.
lol

i would say lupe's probably a better lyricist when it comes to wordplay, metaphors, and thematic songs where symbolism is used to represent an idea or used as an allegory...but 2pac made better songs, and actually made songs that could make you feel something.

basically, lupe's more intellectual (in a superficial way, i haven't really heard him get socially conscious or political or whatever label you want to give the 'in the struggle-fuck the establishment' type rap) and technique driven, where pac's shit was more visceral, his technique, rhyme schemes, and extended metaphors weren't complex, but he knew how to play on people's emotions.

i'm not a huge fan of either one, but i would have to give it to 2pac on versatility, charisma, and ability to make street people listen to 'conscious' rap where everyone after him has failed to do that and just preaches to the choir (college kids, conspiracy theorists, NOI and NGE types).

they're really completely different types of mcs though. better comparison would be 2pac vs. Nas, they both walked that fine, often contradictory line between being street novelist and social commentator.
this killed the thread to the T.

imo... IMO.... as a lyricist Lupe has better word play and you can't deny that. he is socially conscious but that also (especially after the skateboard-gate) kills his realism as far as being ear to the streets type. his "personal" songs come off feeble. like he heard a story about a kid. but what he does with politics is off the charts:
"Yes indeed, democracy's a flirt in a miniskirt trying to give a handjob to the desert till it squirt Texas tea, then they give a condom to Congress to stretch and siege."

Pac... well i look at pac this way... there was Tupac & there was 2pac. there was that conscious nigga that you can compare to Lupe that was growing with food for thought and coulda been a healthy man that maybe MAYBE could've even J. Lennon'd the music industry with the right push but then he met Suge and transformed into 2PAC!!!! the nigga that was too cool to spell his own name right!!! too gangsta to think with more than 4 brain cells!!! too THUG LIFE to grow the fuck up!!! and too simple to not see what Suge was doing to him.

what Tupac did wasn't "the government is foul! boo bush!" like lupe does, but he brought them down to his level and said look me in the face. it was nothing close to general & all the while callin out his own people too. that nigga i respect. that nigga i'm scared of.

2pac was marketable and, while he did have skill, was just a raw type cat. yeah yeah yeah pac's a legend... but that legend was made of a man that had a brain just as you do. was that brain capable of the metaphor's Lupe has? no.

And i know this gon get me hated on but without big, would pac have his stature? i'm not askin for a debate on big but who can say pac's fame and all that is ALL PAC??

i'ma be the first to say i'ma fan of Lupe and Hate pac... i ain't tryin to look like i'm ouside the box cause i WAS ouside the box... till i heard them and decided who i was more interested in. that's how music works. but i don't like pac cause it gets old. i know that shit so i don't wanna hear that shit. i ain't guna knock on anybody that likes pac tho cause i know he had an influence and still does and he wasn't flat out retarded making D4L music... he made sense. Lupe is just more my style. i'm cool with a debate but just don't hate. ranting and raving won't change my opinion.

i never completely tuned pac out... i always at least gave his albums a spin. i was just the east coast kid that came up on BIG, RED & Wu so i drift towards the east coast-ness. and it's been said but you can't compare the 2 really... it's like a paul wall/ pharoahe monch debate... they're just different and talkin about pac, especially round where i live now, is pointless. it's like talkin about the Cowboys... you can't help but want to but just don't do it.
[rethinking hitting submit reply...]

GhettoGnom
08-01-2009, 03:46 AM
2pac.

Better voice, better delivery, more precise with his words & easily got the best body of work.

I do prefer Lupe as a lyricist though.

Uncle Steezo
08-01-2009, 03:57 AM
the ridiculousness of the comparison....
i can't even think of a wack pac song.

i agree with everything pandemic said except the part about nobody after him getting "street people" to get conscious.

he must have never heard of goodiemob or outkast.

Uncle Steezo
08-01-2009, 04:14 AM
let me comment on what dusk said about hitler/clancy.

if the goal of writing is to convey thought and emotion in a way that moves the reader to think feel or act, then hitler would be the better writer.

van goh's paintings are shitty from a technical perspective, but if you have ever looked up close at "starry night" you see the strokes almost tell a story. you get a sense of his emotional state when he painted it.

a photorealistic painting lacks that emotional dimension. its devoid of the human element. perspective.

pac had the ability to connect with people. and lets not get it twisted pac was one of the greatest lyricsts of all time. he just wasn't spitting some giant robot daydream raps which i guess dusk preferred.

so wordsmithing is important but is it better than honest expression?

thats a big hell no.

ALCATRAZ
08-01-2009, 04:37 AM
and too simple to not see what Suge was doing to him.

what is it exactly that suge was doing to him?

And i know this gon get me hated on but without big, would pac have his stature? i'm not askin for a debate on big but who can say pac's fame and all that is ALL PAC??

you got this completely backwards ... 2pac was already well established in the game before biggie smalls came on the scene, both in the streets and in hollywood ... and I can say that all pac's fame came from pac because biggie smalls was just a minor figga compared to 2pac ... if it wasn't for 2pac, biggie smalls would've never been remembered by anyone outside of the hip hop world

after that he turned into some homo thug instead of keepin with the message

homo thug? you mean the homo thug that shot two police officers and beat the charges, right? the same homo thug who put jacques agnant on blast even though he was heavily connected to jimmy henchmen? the same homo thug who exposed king tut and the black mafia for extorting money out of puffy and bad boy, a record label which the black mafia funded?

i think its cool if you want to discuss pac as a lyricist, but its pretty clear that you know nothing about the man besides the things you've heard on vh1 behind the music and articles you've read in the source ... just stick to talking about his music, let the people who really know how the game went discuss his relationship with the streets, cuz i can already tell that's something you have absolutely no knowledge about

oDoUoSoKo
08-01-2009, 08:40 AM
let me comment on what dusk said about hitler/clancy.

if the goal of writing is to convey thought and emotion in a way that moves the reader to think feel or act, then hitler would be the better writer.

van goh's paintings are shitty from a technical perspective, but if you have ever looked up close at "starry night" you see the strokes almost tell a story. you get a sense of his emotional state when he painted it.

a photorealistic painting lacks that emotional dimension. its devoid of the human element. perspective.

pac had the ability to connect with people. and lets not get it twisted pac was one of the greatest lyricsts of all time. he just wasn't spitting some giant robot daydream raps which i guess dusk preferred.

so wordsmithing is important but is it better than honest expression?

thats a big hell no.
its funny u say that, because i think Lupe is more comparible to Van Gogh. Think about it....and smh at people waltzin in to this thread sayin...."please...no comparison" etc....

Poetic Wun
08-01-2009, 09:50 AM
@speakonitgod
I know what im saying and almost everything pertained to his music. how did your 2nd to last paragraph? seemed to me it was defending his thugyness.

if you wanna talk about social credibility then pac shuts the shit down. but it did not need to take pac being a thug to do what he did.
I never said big was all big. I been rockin big since RTD as opposed to those that knew him for Mo Money but I ain't guna front like he'd still be as widely known without pac. and I know pac had a career beforehand, im not taking that away.

so I am discussing the lyricist as hard as that may be without mentioning the man cause too many heads are too ignorant to differentiate between his legend status and his lyrical ability. my objective was to separate the 2 so as I may have come off like I didn't know what he really did it was cause it aint about what he really did. if you wanna make a 2pac Appreciation thread I have almost no doubt ill be agreeing with you on many of your points.

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-01-2009, 10:18 AM
the ridiculousness of the comparison....
i can't even think of a wack pac song.

i agree with everything pandemic said except the part about nobody after him getting "street people" to get conscious.

he must have never heard of goodiemob or outkast.


well yeah, but goodie mob and outkast were part of pac's era though...if i recall (i was only 12 when pac died so i might be wrong) soul food and still standing dropped while pac was still alive.

i meant artist who had their debuts after tupac died...i would consider kast and goodie mob contemporaries of tupac.

The Hound
08-01-2009, 10:23 AM
the question is lyricist.

No, the question was "how was 2pac better in anyway";

exactly what i expected.

I DEFY ONLY ONE POSTER TO EXPLAIN TO ME CLARLY HOW IS 2PAC BETTER THAN LUPE FIASCO IN ANY WAY.

^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post

and i swear i'm one of only about 10 people who post here that has reasoning skills beyond those of a 5 year old.

You mean this post?

I know most of yall r gonna say 2pac but just tell me exactly how is he better.

I don't see lyricist, do you?

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-01-2009, 10:25 AM
about the technical/realistic vs. emotional perspective...van gogh still knew the rules of perspective and photorealism which was why he was successfully able to circumvent them...if you take classes in any artistic discipline one of the main things they'll stress to you is you need to know the rules in order to break them, which is why dali or picasso, or even a kandinsky were successfully able to do what they did. or even in terms of writing, i'm sure ee cummings could probably write conventional poetry or even prose with no problem, which was why the poetry can still break with convention and work.

i've never read hitler or tom clancy so i can't speak on that comparison.

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-01-2009, 10:28 AM
You mean this post?



I don't see lyricist, do you?

you got me on that one, i forgot about like 10 posts of polysyllabic bullshit before this one



i think the intent of the thread was to ask if 2pac is better lyrically, to which i again reply...no. point blank...fuck popularity and influence...Hitler was an influential writer...dont make him a better writer than, shit..Tom Clancy for example.

I guess in my mind since this was the first post that made any sense I was considering it the first one lol

but you're right.

The Hound
08-01-2009, 11:42 AM
^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post

5hundred&one
08-01-2009, 12:15 PM
I don't even level with people who argue lyricism in hip-hop. Like I could go in to the wu-chamber and say Ghostface is a better rapper than Gza and everyone would start getting upset.

'But Gza was a better lyricist! lol!'

Fuck that. Only herbs care so much about the complexity of a rappers lyrics and hip-hop wasn't built on herbs and what they have to say, period. Saying a rapper is a more 'complex lyricist' than another seems to me like a desperate reach to prove to people that the rapper you like the most is the better lyricist.

Tupac wrote lyrics that resonated with more people in the hip-hop community than Lupe and it could be argued that his lyrics were just as good, even if they were a little less complex. Complicated lyrics aren't automatically good just because they're complicated.

Ice Ice Baby had bigger words than Brooklyn Zoo, but which song do you think was iller lyrically?

Uncle Steezo
08-01-2009, 01:00 PM
about the technical/realistic vs. emotional perspective...van gogh still knew the rules of perspective and photorealism which was why he was successfully able to circumvent them...if you take classes in any artistic discipline one of the main things they'll stress to you is you need to know the rules in order to break them, which is why dali or picasso, or even a kandinsky were successfully able to do what they did. or even in terms of writing, i'm sure ee cummings could probably write conventional poetry or even prose with no problem, which was why the poetry can still break with convention and work.

i've never read hitler or tom clancy so i can't speak on that comparison.

this is true. but not every great artist is classically trained and that goes for any discipline. some people have natural ability from birth.
some artists are great because they haven't been conditioned by rules.
basquait comes to mind. maya angelou. donald goines. sun ra.

these artists break rules without knowing them.

do you have to know scales and be able to read music to be a great musician? could picasso have done the same work without knowing perspective and photorealism? a child can pick up a crayon and create a masterpiece.

art is the purest expression of the human spirit.


to be honest there are no rules when it comes to art.




on a side note, dali is my fav artist but nothing about his technique is out of the ordinary. his mind, personality and images he conveyed were tho.

The Hound
08-01-2009, 01:19 PM
Hitler might not have needed to express himself in a regulation structure but after only really writing two books - one of which was an autobriography and the other being a contradictory follow up to the autobiography - he was not an influential writer. Hitler was an influential person and leader and incredible public speaker but suggesting he was an influential writer is ridiculous.

Uncle Steezo
08-01-2009, 01:22 PM
his speeches were written.

ALCATRAZ
08-01-2009, 03:21 PM
I don't even level with people who argue lyricism in hip-hop. Like I could go in to the wu-chamber and say Ghostface is a better rapper than Gza and everyone would start getting upset.

'But Gza was a better lyricist! lol!'

Fuck that. Only herbs care so much about the complexity of a rappers lyrics and hip-hop wasn't built on herbs and what they have to say, period. Saying a rapper is a more 'complex lyricist' than another seems to me like a desperate reach to prove to people that the rapper you like the most is the better lyricist.

Tupac wrote lyrics that resonated with more people in the hip-hop community than Lupe and it could be argued that his lyrics were just as good, even if they were a little less complex. Complicated lyrics aren't automatically good just because they're complicated.

Ice Ice Baby had bigger words than Brooklyn Zoo, but which song do you think was iller lyrically?


finally ......... someone gets it

CharlesJones
08-01-2009, 03:24 PM
2Pac is way better than Lupe hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. 2Pac is one of my favorite rappers. His lyrics were hardcore and a lot of ghetto black men felt his lyrics. I miss 2Pac. RIP my brother. You finally got some peace now away from this evil world. If 2Pac was still alive, his music would be better than these faggot rappers out now.

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-01-2009, 04:31 PM
^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post

lol you so crazy


this is true. but not every great artist is classically trained and that goes for any discipline. some people have natural ability from birth.
some artists are great because they haven't been conditioned by rules.
basquait comes to mind. maya angelou. donald goines. sun ra.

these artists break rules without knowing them.

do you have to know scales and be able to read music to be a great musician? could picasso have done the same work without knowing perspective and photorealism? a child can pick up a crayon and create a masterpiece.

art is the purest expression of the human spirit.


to be honest there are no rules when it comes to art.




on a side note, dali is my fav artist but nothing about his technique is out of the ordinary. his mind, personality and images he conveyed were tho.

well art doesn't exist in a vacuum, so i'm sure goines and angelou absorbed and learned from books they had read throughout their lives, basquiat with art, sun ra with music.it's like an intuitive education of 'this is what i want to do...i like what these guys are doing...let me figure out what i think works and why and incorporate it into what i'm doing.' autodidacticism is just as valid as being taught in a classroom. but i'll agree quality art can be done without all that if you're just trying to convey a mood or feeling. It basically boils down to form vs. function style vs. substance, and all that. and if a self taught artist would lose anything by learning the accepted conventions of a form. like people say rza's not as good now that he's learned more about music, as opposed to when he started, when it was intuitive and all about the energy.

dali wasn't all surrealistic toreador and persistence of memory. he got pretty abstract and formless sometimes too, those peices just aren't as famous.

http://www.perillos.com/dali_europe.jpg

http://www.doubletakeart.com/images/00133-11688_zoomed.gif


http://www.doubletakeart.com/images/00133-11629_zoomed.gif

http://www.doubletakeart.com/images/00133-11356_zoomed.gif

oDoUoSoKo
08-01-2009, 11:45 PM
i did read the og post, doesnt change anything i said really. and i rather listen to lupe than pac nowadays.

oDoUoSoKo
08-01-2009, 11:48 PM
but suggesting he was an influential writer is ridiculous.
:learning:


smfh.





anyways....u missed the exit, just stop driving all together.
:vroar:


as for the lyricist vs. rapper shit, honestly chew balls. You gonna argue that eazy e is a better rapper than canibus? lets hear that.

oDoUoSoKo
08-01-2009, 11:58 PM
actually let me clarify, obviously i think theres more to rapping than lyricism...but i wouldnt put LL Cool J over Vordul Mega cuz he could fuckin flex his biceps and scream that hes gonna knock you out..on stage. eloels.

ALCATRAZ
08-02-2009, 12:02 AM
i would definitely put ll cool j over half of these backpackin herbs mostly for the fact that his debut came out in fuckin 1985 before most of us were even living and secondly he is still relevant because here you are in 2009 with his name in ur mouth ....

ll cool j wins

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 12:08 AM
actually, i havent said his name...ive typed it tho....speakonitgod loses....eloels.


and i wouldnt put it past u to rank a rapper over another because their album came out before..smh.

The Hound
08-02-2009, 12:34 AM
Eazy-E was a better rapper than Canibus - E had mic presence, tight flow and a good delivery and NWA knew this which is why they put out Eazy-Duz-It before a new group album with the adjusted roster. Eazy-E couldn't write for shit but the dude could deliver a rap like a professional Domino's driver - Canibus has the same boring monotone flow on all of his albums and only ever pulled off one album worth listening to when he had to get one of the best on the boards - Stoupe - the rest of his albums at worst suck dogs balls and at best are average.

U6XlAgDqP6g
^^ Better than any Canibus song.

The whole concept of lyricism being the defining factor on who is good or who isn't is fucking bullshit because then you would get faggots like Warcloud and Canibus considered G.O.A.T. because they sit there all night reading a thesaurus trying to come up with complex rhymes that make no sense but are so confusing to the general public they assume it has to be dope because words have three or mor syllables. 2Pac might not have some out there metaphoric, multi-line rhyme scheme but he didn't need to do that because he made fucking good music regardless and that is why he is better than Lupe. Another reason he is better than Lupe, and pretty much the only reason that matters, his music is better.

G36TCDG_vDU
jxDoE-hzo7s
pgTMvuTIiwk
PA5qKkyVOWA
O2GVOGyyFB0
nkJA6SYwa94
QCePJoY6MTE

One song off every 2Pac album he worked on that is better than anything Lupe ever did and we could play a game where you post a Lupe song and I post a song Pac did that was better off a different album.

his speeches were written.


His speeches were verbally delivered which is what made him an influential leader/public speaker not an influential writer. He conned an entire nation through deceit in his speeces which he spoke.

ALCATRAZ
08-02-2009, 12:40 AM
dusk is like the ultimate non hip hop fan he has said so many fuckin atrocious ridiculous comments over my time here its hard to understand why he has a wu tang w next to his name

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 12:51 AM
ok now things r getting ridiculous. and its easy speak..cuz im a much bigger hip hop fan than you.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 12:54 AM
the reason there is no sense in me even attempting to explain things to u guys is because u hang on to the cliched concept of hip hop like your mothers saggin tits...LL Cool J HAS to be better than Canibus...Eazy HAS to be better than Warcloud....why? because hip hop says so...who is hip hop?


Speakonitgod, and Energy Turtle.

The Hound
08-02-2009, 01:00 AM
Do you actually read? I just told you why both were better then you go on a tangent and say hip hop told me my opinion? Fuck out of here and actually read something you've been presented.

All you fags who keep saying shit like Lupe is better than 2Pac still can't come up with one genuine reason as to why he is better other than "oh, lyricism, ummmm, metaphors, errrrr, complex rhyme schemes." Get the fuck out that doesn't make him a better RAPPER. Give me a reason as to why Canibus is better than Eazy-E after I just gave you my reason.

Either give reason or shut the fuck up and get the fuck out.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 01:10 AM
are you fucking kidding me? i read everything you said...and i honestly feel u dont kno what the fuck ur talking about. its no tangent...u and mostly speakonitgod (referin to him sayin that im not a hip hop fan) are speaking from a place where people who dont write their own are and can be considered better rappers than those who do..and that is absolutely not o fucking k

obviously there must be a balance, and id go for that balance before i go for either extreme...i feel tupac is not very balanced, and tbh i feel lupe aint either...however i find Lupe to be more balanced than Tupac, and i also feel that every field u ranked pac in...Lupe holds up to aswell....and as far as the "fags" who think Lupe is better...pleez..who? just fuckin me...and if U read uda seen why i thought so, u come across as a dickhead by poorly paraphrasing everything i said...smh. this feels like one of those bad twilight zone episodes where everyone is an alien.

also,,as for the lyricism debate..thats mostly my fault because i assumed he meant that.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 01:24 AM
ill point out one last time that its easy to vote against someone whose shit u havent heard....all the 2pac voting chuckleheads probably have a me against the world poster in their rooms next to the ll cool j ab picture...but have u even heard failure by Lupe? just sayin.

The Hound
08-02-2009, 02:07 AM
Oh so I am dickhead poorly paraphrashing everything you said? Well, here is every one of your quotes in this thread and not once did you mention a reason Lupe why is better other than "lrycisim."

Lupe

i think the intent of the thread was to ask if 2pac is better lyrically, to which i again reply...no. point blank...fuck popularity and influence...Hitler was an influential writer...dont make him a better writer than, shit..Tom Clancy for example.

LOL @ coming into the thread and trying to de-rail the original question to even remotely having a chance at justifying Lupe being better than 2Pac.

Lupe Fiasco is a better lyricist than 2pac. Right on.

2 more things, let it be noted that i own more pac albums than lupe albums....(despite the fact lupe only has 2) and i was a HUGE pac fan

also let it be noted im not a huge Lupe fan, and lastly, saying that Lupe wont be remembered in 15 years has to do with popularity, not lyricism...and ive seldom seen a case where someone is remembered in 15 years for their lyricism...thats certainly not the case with pac.
^^ This is straight out of TAURO DA GRIM LATIN's school of "I am supposedly a massive fan but I think he is relatively shit in comparison to some backpacker because it goes against popular opinion and therefore it makes me seem more intelligent" thought.

why isnt anyone who past the 3rd grade debating with me? read my last fuckin posts.
^^ because you aren't presenting anything to debate with. Nothing you have said prior to this had any points of debate, just lyricism this and SMH that.

smh

no ur thinking of the gangster rapper who wasnt ganster til after he started rapping...LMAO...exposed.

this thread is such a wste of time because its absolutely void of logic...arguments are...2pac is a legend..and Lupe didnt actually skateboard...smfh....Hip Hop Shop Is Dead (produced by speakonitgod)

THANK YOU...now close thread...someone actually fuckin made sense, tho i would agree to a certain degree...i would say u should def. listen to more Lupe, because its less "superficial" as u go along. and also whatever is highlighted in red...should show y this thread should be closed....logic, man.
^^ Quoting somebody saying Lupe was a better lyricist.

the question is lyricist.
^^ Question was actually how was 2Pac better.

its funny u say that, because i think Lupe is more comparible to Van Gogh. Think about it....and smh at people waltzin in to this thread sayin...."please...no comparison" etc....

i did read the og post, doesnt change anything i said really. and i rather listen to lupe than pac nowadays.
lol no you didn't.
:learning:


smfh.





anyways....u missed the exit, just stop driving all together.
:vroar:


as for the lyricist vs. rapper shit, honestly chew balls. You gonna argue that eazy e is a better rapper than canibus? lets hear that.

actually let me clarify, obviously i think theres more to rapping than lyricism...but i wouldnt put LL Cool J over Vordul Mega cuz he could fuckin flex his biceps and scream that hes gonna knock you out..on stage. eloels.
Back tracking.

actually, i havent said his name...ive typed it tho....speakonitgod loses....eloels.


and i wouldnt put it past u to rank a rapper over another because their album came out before..smh.

ok now things r getting ridiculous. and its easy speak..cuz im a much bigger hip hop fan than you.

the reason there is no sense in me even attempting to explain things to u guys is because u hang on to the cliched concept of hip hop like your mothers saggin tits...LL Cool J HAS to be better than Canibus...Eazy HAS to be better than Warcloud....why? because hip hop says so...who is hip hop?


Speakonitgod, and Energy Turtle.

are you fucking kidding me? i read everything you said...and i honestly feel u dont kno what the fuck ur talking about. its no tangent...u and mostly speakonitgod (referin to him sayin that im not a hip hop fan) are speaking from a place where people who dont write their own are and can be considered better rappers than those who do..and that is absolutely not o fucking k

obviously there must be a balance, and id go for that balance before i go for either extreme...i feel tupac is not very balanced, and tbh i feel lupe aint either...however i find Lupe to be more balanced than Tupac, and i also feel that every field u ranked pac in...Lupe holds up to aswell....and as far as the "fags" who think Lupe is better...pleez..who? just fuckin me...and if U read uda seen why i thought so, u come across as a dickhead by poorly paraphrasing everything i said...smh. this feels like one of those bad twilight zone episodes where everyone is an alien.

also,,as for the lyricism debate..thats mostly my fault because i assumed he meant that.

ill point out one last time that its easy to vote against someone whose shit u havent heard....all the 2pac voting chuckleheads probably have a me against the world poster in their rooms next to the ll cool j ab picture...but have u even heard failure by Lupe? just sayin.

I already told you why I feel 2Pac is better and yet for about the third time you have completely dodged it and started talking shit about Me Against The World postersand my mothers supposed saggin' tits somehow relating to LL Cool J and some shit about hip hop telling me what to like. This is a classic example of dodging the question at hand because you know you are wrong.

Have I heard Lupe? Food & Liquor + Cool. Verdict? 2Pac is still better.

I even took up your offer to argue how Eazy-E was better than Canibus and you dodged that, you can't even back your claims up you're just a classic example of going against the grain to be different in the thought that it makes your opinion seem more informed or something.

WARPATH
08-02-2009, 02:27 AM
I know most of yall r gonna say 2pac but just tell me exactly how is he better.

Who the fuck is lupe?

Serious question.

GhettoGnom
08-02-2009, 08:42 AM
All you fags who keep saying shit like Lupe is better than 2Pac still can't come up with one genuine reason as to why he is better other than "oh, lyricism, ummmm, metaphors, errrrr, complex rhyme schemes." Get the fuck out that doesn't make him a better RAPPER. Give me a reason as to why Canibus is better than Eazy-E after I just gave you my reason.


The thing is you can't ignore lyrics either, it's usually what defines the rapper, both Lupe and Pac and Canibus (maybe not Eazy-E).


As for Canibus vs. Easy-E... Wow.

At a thousand degree Celsius I make MC's melt
Fuck my record label I appear courtesy of myself
Let me explain how I maintain thresholds to pain
I walk across the Sun barefoot lookin for shade

His voice matched his excellent lyrics (both long lost now, but easy-e is no better :P ) and the production on both Mic Club and RTJ was fucking fierce, that alone is enough. As a rapper, Easy-E got nothing on Canibus in his prime, and I don't give a fuck how little you care about lyrics.

i would definitely put ll cool j over half of these backpackin herbs mostly for the fact that his debut came out in fuckin 1985 before most of us were even living and secondly he is still relevant because here you are in 2009 with his name in ur mouth ....

ll cool j wins

Vordul Mega is the better rapper, so why would you care about that other shit? Discuss the music, not the legacy.

5hundred&one
08-02-2009, 01:19 PM
I walk across the Sun barefoot lookin for shade


not a dope line, sorry..

cornball shit if ever I've read it, reminds me of some stupid shit that holocaust would write.

GhettoGnom
08-02-2009, 01:40 PM
Well, we'll agree to disagree then. Most people agree that that verse is one of those timeless verses though, so I think you're pretty alone on this one. (Thinking about it, maybe not on this site.)

Only thing Eazy-E got over Canibus is legacy.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 01:55 PM
honestly, ive never felt so confused in my life, and actually now that i think about it, its disappointment. I thought more of you, but thats ok. hows is me telling you that i think Lupe Fiasco is a better lyricist, performer, conceptualizer and artist not enough of a debate for you? i would tell u ...look man, we aint agreein here, u like 2pac, and thats that...but when u say things like im just trying to go against the grain, its really amateurish from a debating standpoint, i think the reasons i prefer Lupe is very simple..but u cant see that, and ALSO saying that im wrong is kind of ridiculous too, because how can someones opinions be wrong? it isnt fact....and well done by quoting all my posts...half of the commentary u gave was childish and inaccurate. nice try. mods lets delete everything after Pandemic's post and call it a thread.


EDIT: also for the record...debating with you was really hard when that fuckin Buzzard kept butting in with nonsense...and most of my beef was towards the idea that im not a hip hop fan because i dont think 2pac is a better rapper than Lupe.

Poetic Wun
08-02-2009, 02:39 PM
dusk is like the ultimate non hip hop fan he has said so many fuckin atrocious ridiculous comments over my time here its hard to understand why he has a wu tang w next to his name
not that i'm defending Dusk at all but wasn't Tupac rap... Hate Lupe but Lupe is Hip-Hop music... not the epitome of, but that is his genre as tupac would be rap.

also that "going against the grain" and "wordplay is a lame attempt to defend your fav artist" is ignorant on your part. you attack the debater rather than the points. while some prefer the complexities in music and they obviously elude you doesn't mean it's reaching on our part. it's like some ridiculous inverted cop out.

metaphors, errr, complex rhyme schemes.... errr lyricism.... umm aren't those legitimate points... isnt that the point of the whole progression of the genre?? isn't that why Wu Tang has raised the bar on several aspects... does this mean you find Pac a better RAPPER than GZA??
isnt that why nobody says shit like "have you ever went over to a friends house to eat and the food just ain't no good..." anymore?

if your too short to see above the lyrical bar set by Ruthless & Death Row records then you'll never never see above it cause your still riding that shit in 2009 (although this is the year of Wayne so...)

GhettoGnom
08-02-2009, 03:11 PM
lyricism.... isn't that why Wu Tang has raised the bar on several aspects...

Repped. Some of these Wu-fans are on some real hypocritical shit.

Uncle Steezo
08-02-2009, 03:29 PM
i think lupe voters haven't even analyzed a pac lyric.

pac was able to convey heartfelt TRUTHS about himself in a way that made you look at yourself. he said things on the mic that younger henerations now consider to be emo and soft but yet he's still called a thug.


pac started the thug life movement to connect with a generation that was given up on. he said that the gangs were our armies and that instead of turning our backs to them that we should embrace them.

i'll post the vid of pac right before he started the thug life shit.

Back in elementary, I thrived on misery
Left me alone I grew up amongst a dyin breed
Inside my mind couldn't find a place to rest
until I got that Thug Life tatted on my chest
Tell me can you feel me? I'm not livin in the past, you wanna last
Be tha first to blast, remember Kato
No longer with us he's deceased
Call on the sirens, seen him murdered in the streets
Now rest in peace
Is there heaven for a G? Remember me
So many homies in the cemetery, shed so many tears

Ahh, I suffered through the years, and shed so many tears..
Lord, I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears

Now that I'm strugglin in this business, by any means
Label me greedy gettin green, but seldom seen
And fuck the world cause I'm cursed, I'm havin visions
of leavin here in a hearse, God can you feel me?
Take me away from all the pressure, and all the pain
Show me some happiness again, I'm goin blind
I spend my time in this cell, ain't livin well
I know my destiny is Hell, where did I fail?
My life is in denial, and when I die,
baptized in eternal fire I'll shed so many tears

Lord, I suffered through the years, and shed so many tears..
Lord, I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears

Now I'm lost and I'm weary, so many tears
I'm suicidal, so don't stand near me
My every move is a calculated step, to bring me closer
to embrace an early death, now there's nothin left
There was no mercy on the streets, I couldn't rest
I'm barely standin, bout to go to pieces, screamin peace
And though my soul was deleted, I couldn't see it
I had my mind full of demons tryin to break free
They planted seeds and they hatched, sparkin the flame
inside my brain like a match, such a dirty game
No memories, just a misery
Paintin a picture of my enemies killin me, in my sleep
Will I survive til the mo'nin, to see the sun
Please Lord forgive me for my sins, cause here I come...

Lord, I suffered through the years (God) and shed so many tears..
God, I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears

Lord knows I.. tried, been a witness to homicide
Seen drivebys takin lives, little kids die
Wonder why as I walk by
Broken-hearted as I glance at the chalk line, gettin high
This ain't the life for me, I wanna change
But ain't no future right for me, I'm stuck in the game
I'm trapped inside a maze
See this Tanqueray influenced me to gettin crazy
Disillusioned lately, I've been really wantin babies
so I could see a part of me that wasn't always shady
Don't trust my lady, cause she's a product of this poison
I'm hearin noises, think she fuckin all my boys, can't take no more
I'm fallin to the floor; beggin for the Lord to let me in
to Heaven's door -- shed so many tears
(Dear God, please let me in)



that song was a prayer for forgiveness.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 04:12 PM
i think u have never heard a full pac album.

Uncle Steezo
08-02-2009, 04:20 PM
let me add. hip hop is not about complexity. its about expression and connection.
when youu sacrifice the connection with the listener in order get complex, you fail as an MC.

this is why so many "back pack" rappers have very small followings. cause they cant express themselves in a way that connects with the listener. yeah it may sound cool but what the fuck are you really talking about? who are you talking to? who are you?
these questions get left unanswered.


think of all the true hip hop classix. out of those which ones are complex lyrically?

all these into lines are burned into everybody's brain. complex? no. but they are dope as fuck.

"gimme the microphone 1st and i'm a bust like a bubble..."
"broken glass everywhere people pissin on the staircase they dont care"
"raw i'm givittoya with no trivia we like cocaine str8 from bolivia"
"woke up in the mornin hopped on the train i saw my man, he had an L in his hand"
"it was all a dream used to read word up magazine salt n pepa and heavy up in a limosine"

only solo artist i can think of who successfully balanced complexity and mass appeal was Jay-z on reasonable doubt. his shit was complex and witty without alienating the listener.

Uncle Steezo
08-02-2009, 04:23 PM
i think u have never heard a full pac album.
now i unbderstand why so many people have problems with you.
i just posted something meaningful and you responded with that.
i think i wil put you on ignore. your posts are wasting my plasma.
plus yo sig game is garbage.

Uncle Steezo
08-02-2009, 04:25 PM
goddammit
"member is mod/admin cannot place on ignore"
bullshit.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 04:26 PM
dead ass? why would u even try that like im fuckin ghostlaced or some shit...i never talk to u...eloels, nice car.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 04:28 PM
now i unbderstand why so many people have problems with you.
i just posted something meaningful and you responded with that.
i think i wil put you on ignore. your posts are wasting my plasma.
plus yo sig game is garbage.
this is why i dont post here...fuckin morons...read what u said, never analyzed a pac lyric? w/e man, im done here....just reminds me why i fell out of love with hip hop.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 04:31 PM
thank you to Pandemic and Ghettonom for givin some sense in here...shit even turtle..but the fact that i got made to look like im fuckin ghostlaced in here pissed me the fuck off...u guys got no right to not take me seriously, and dont say that i did it to myself because thats bullshit.

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-02-2009, 04:35 PM
hip hop can be anything the artist wants it to be though...and some listeners prefer more complex and abstract material, so a canibus or warcloud will connect with one type of listener who has no interest in more grounded and straightforward mcs. you can't really paint the audience with one brush, especially now that the audience for hiphop is so broad and diverse and overlaps so many different genres.

some artists would rather express what's in their mind without any consideration for coherence or accessibility.

it's all a matter of preference.

5hundred&one
08-02-2009, 05:45 PM
not that i'm defending Dusk at all but wasn't Tupac rap... Hate Lupe but Lupe is Hip-Hop music... not the epitome of, but that is his genre as tupac would be rap.


this is still one of the most retarded ideas to me. hip-hop and rap are two different forms of music why? because krs-one says so? I understand the cultural differences in that rap doesn't include the other pillars of hip-hop, but if we're talking genres of music, then what separates rap and hip-hop? the way I see it, hip-hop is an artististic reflection of the hood. it's entertainment for the streets, so Gucci Mane and Kool G Rap are both hip-hop. I keep seein shit about not accepting cliches and thinking for yourself and whatever, but to me this is one of the biggest cliches in all of hip-hop.

rap and hip-hop aren't two different things, that's just an idea that came from bitter backpacker fans who don't like where the music has gone.


metaphors, errr, complex rhyme schemes.... errr lyricism.... umm aren't those legitimate points... isnt that the point of the whole progression of the genre?? isn't that why Wu Tang has raised the bar on several aspects... does this mean you find Pac a better RAPPER than GZA??
isnt that why nobody says shit like "have you ever went over to a friends house to eat and the food just ain't no good..." anymore?


I'll use my example from earlier, Vanilla Ice used bigger words in his hit song than ODB, but who was the better lyricist? did Ice Ice Baby or Brooklyn Zoo have the better rhymes? I understand the point you're making, but using wu as a means to argue lyricism is misleading, because a lot of their best rhymes weren't really that complicated.

"Champion gear that I rock you get your boots knocked, then attack you like a pit that lock shit down, as I come to freak the sound, harcore while givin you more and more"

early wu shit could be dope without being complex and to me, Raekwon wrote better lyrics than Canibus. not more complex lyrics, but better. same with 2pac over Lupe.

here's a way I can convey it: I could never appreciate a rapper's lyrics if he wrote about straight up star trek, dungeons & dragons and other nerd shit, even if the metaphors were clever and the wordplay was insane, if the subject matter and the words were corny, I would prefer a simpler rapper who had iller concepts, a better flow and just wrote solid lyrics that fit the music, because that's a huge part of lyricism. knowing what words to use and the best time to use them is more important to me than using big words and lots of syllables and when I say 'good lyrics' it means more than metaphors and complex rhymes.

Well, we'll agree to disagree then. Most people agree that that verse is one of those timeless verses though, so I think you're pretty alone on this one. (Thinking about it, maybe not on this site.)

Only thing Eazy-E got over Canibus is legacy.

I don't really care who says what or how many people ride with you on that, and the verse itself may be dope, but lines like that are stupid to me. here's an example of a good one:

"Unbalanced like Elephants and Ants on seesaws" - that shit is dope.

the difference is that Gza is saying shit that's boastful, but keeping it tied to reality and using it metaphorically. that's clever to me, but just making outlandish claims about yourself isn't imaginative by itself. anyone can think up some outrageous claim and rhyme it with something.

if I wrote 'I can shoot cannonballs out of my dick' would that be clever? I can lift firetrucks with my eyelids and I masturbate with the blood of christ. there I'm doing what Canibus did now. Just making random references to shit that I can do that i really can't do. I guess that's clever lyrics?

Inspectah_Dirk
08-02-2009, 05:49 PM
Damn, this is a though question....


I'll get back to ya'll on this one.

food for thought
08-02-2009, 05:55 PM
smh.

this thread shouldnt have passed one page.

GhettoGnom
08-02-2009, 07:17 PM
let me add. hip hop is not about complexity. its about expression and connection.
when youu sacrifice the connection with the listener in order get complex, you fail as an MC.

It's about whatever the fuck you make it about.

so a canibus or warcloud will connect with one type of listener who has no interest in more grounded and straightforward mcs.

That's the problem with hardcore fans though, they have no interest in other styles. They generalize everything else, locking themself in a box.. The lack of balance fucked up hip hop, if only people like Canibus & Warcloud were selling, rap would be even worse than what it is now.

this is still one of the most retarded ideas to me. hip-hop and rap are two different forms of music why?

Word, the fuck? Rap's a part of Hip Hop, how fucking hard can that be to get? If something is Hip Hop music and not rap, it's DJing or beatboxing. If someone raps, it's rap. PERIOD.


I'll use my example from earlier, Vanilla Ice used bigger words in his hit song than ODB, but who was the better lyricist? did Ice Ice Baby or Brooklyn Zoo have the better rhymes? I understand the point you're making, but using wu as a means to argue lyricism is misleading, because a lot of their best rhymes weren't really that complicated.

Where the fuck did that come from? Complexity and big words got no connection. No one have said anything like this.


the difference is that Gza is saying shit that's boastful, but keeping it tied to reality and using it metaphorically. that's clever to me, but just making outlandish claims about yourself isn't imaginative by itself. anyone can think up some outrageous claim and rhyme it with something.

if I wrote 'I can shoot cannonballs out of my dick' would that be clever? I can lift firetrucks with my eyelids and I masturbate with the blood of christ. there I'm doing what Canibus did now. Just making random references to shit that I can do that i really can't do. I guess that's clever lyrics?

It's called "fantasy".. To claim that fantasy can't be called imaginative is bullshit. It's like saying Star Wars is a bad movie because it's unrealistic.

And if you can't see the difference between your line and the canibus line because both are unrealistic, this discussion has ended.

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-02-2009, 07:20 PM
^^^i know, i agree that it's all about balance...my post was in response to style about the hip-hop not being about complexity, that it needs to be accessible for the listeners, etc...argument.

and mainstream fans still tend to be the most narrow minded; i work and attend classes with tons of people who only listen to what's on the radio and have disdain for everything else.

lol and why would you only quote one line of my post when i start it off making the exact same point that you're making? lol

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 07:28 PM
smh.

this thread shouldnt have passed one page.
smh

food for thought
08-02-2009, 07:30 PM
lol

out of all the MCs you could have compared him to

Lupe, huh?

cool

NaturalBornKilla
08-02-2009, 07:31 PM
this didnt need a thread 2pac is miles better then lupe

GhettoGnom
08-02-2009, 07:51 PM
^^^i know, i agree that it's all about balance...my post was in response to style about the hip-hop not being about complexity, that it needs to be accessible for the listeners, etc...argument.

and mainstream fans still tend to be the most narrow minded; i work and attend classes with tons of people who only listen to what's on the radio and have disdain for everything else.

lol and why would you only quote one line of my post when i start it off making the exact same point that you're making? lol

I only quote what I respond to, posting more just floods the page ^^, You could see that I actually agreed with you without me quoting it :thumbup:


edit- I just did, haha.

spiggity_ace
08-02-2009, 08:32 PM
2pac>>>>>>>>>>Lupe
Honeslty, someone tell me wuts so great about lupe, ive herd so many songs from him and they all similar he got a dope flow though ill give him that, i hate that superstar song, kick push was dope, that song that had willie d in the vid was aite n i herd that food n liquor it was aite, he nothing compared to pac tho.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 09:38 PM
last thing ima say here....mixtapes...jackasses.

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 09:39 PM
this didnt need a thread 2pac is miles better then lupe
}:|

11th Chamber
08-02-2009, 09:47 PM
last thing ima say here....mixtapes...jackasses.

yea cause the mixtape game was really poppin off in the 90's compared to now

oDoUoSoKo
08-02-2009, 10:45 PM
thanks for getting my point, that people basin their opinions on Lupe off his 2 albums, they should hear his tapes.

ALCATRAZ
08-02-2009, 11:54 PM
^^yeah cause lupe fiascos mixtapes are so groundbreaking and original, 2pac's weak discography could never stand the test of time against lupe fiasco's mixtape series

fauggette

oDoUoSoKo
08-03-2009, 12:01 AM
^^yeah cause lupe fiascos mixtapes are so groundbreaking and original, 2pac's weak discography could never stand the test of time against lupe fiasco's mixtape series

fauggette
http://onlylol.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/baseball-fail-mike.jpg

Poetic Wun
08-03-2009, 12:33 AM
^^yeah cause lupe fiascos mixtapes are so groundbreaking and original, 2pac's weak discography could never stand the test of time against lupe fiasco's mixtape series

fauggette
lol damn i thought i was at least talkin to people that knew a lil something about Lupe besides his 2 albums... James was the only one i respected as far as arguments sake on the pac end due to keeping a level head till he played Dusk like the "lupe-heads" aint been having to deal with feeble points iced with dick-ridernessism the last 9 pages. and at ever pac/rap point we've matched each argument only to get hit back with comments like the one in the quote.

btw wheres the nigga that started this thread. ain't seen him but for maybe 4 posts...

The Hound
08-03-2009, 12:46 AM
Haha, resorting to the "oh the mixtape" shit like - same argument for Nas "Oh his UNRELEASED shit is tight." Fuck that.

honestly, ive never felt so confused in my life, and actually now that i think about it, its disappointment. I thought more of you, but thats ok. hows is me telling you that i think Lupe Fiasco is a better lyricist, performer, conceptualizer and artist not enough of a debate for you? i would tell u ...look man, we aint agreein here, u like 2pac, and thats that...but when u say things like im just trying to go against the grain, its really amateurish from a debating standpoint, i think the reasons i prefer Lupe is very simple..but u cant see that, and ALSO saying that im wrong is kind of ridiculous too, because how can someones opinions be wrong? it isnt fact....and well done by quoting all my posts...half of the commentary u gave was childish and inaccurate. nice try. mods lets delete everything after Pandemic's post and call it a thread.


EDIT: also for the record...debating with you was really hard when that fuckin Buzzard kept butting in with nonsense...and most of my beef was towards the idea that im not a hip hop fan because i dont think 2pac is a better rapper than Lupe.

Quite hypocritical of you to say I am amateurish in this debate when you said I am forming my opinion by what hip hop tells me when I laid out exactly why I believe 2Pac was miles ahead of Lupe.

And I quoted your posts because you said I was merely paraphrasing and yet I turned out to be correct when I pointed out you brought nothing but the lyricism aspect.

The thing is you can't ignore lyrics either, it's usually what defines the rapper, both Lupe and Pac and Canibus (maybe not Eazy-E).


As for Canibus vs. Easy-E... Wow.

At a thousand degree Celsius I make MC's melt
Fuck my record label I appear courtesy of myself
Let me explain how I maintain thresholds to pain
I walk across the Sun barefoot lookin for shade

His voice matched his excellent lyrics (both long lost now, but easy-e is no better :P ) and the production on both Mic Club and RTJ was fucking fierce, that alone is enough. As a rapper, Easy-E got nothing on Canibus in his prime, and I don't give a fuck how little you care about lyrics.

What the fuck does the production have to do with whether Eazy E was a better rapper? Canibus in his prime would have to wait in line to suck Eazy-E's dick and I don't care whether Eazy-Duz-it is still unreleased in Norway or not. E shits on Canibus but the backpacker in you says otherwise. Guaranteed you haven't heard shit from E other than the song Straight Outta Compton.

Uncle Steezo
08-03-2009, 02:00 AM
this is why i dont post here...fuckin morons...read what u said, never analyzed a pac lyric? w/e man, im done here....just reminds me why i fell out of love with hip hop.


this is the problem that i had and never realized till turtle pointed it out.

you make comments without explaining yourself, expecting others to get what you are saying. i'm sure you have reasons you say what you say but thats all in your head.

when i said analyze a pac lyric, i posted a lyric to analyze then said why it was dope. and then went into why that style of poetry was more valuable to me.

you replied with i never heard lupe.

at that point the discussion ended for me. like why waste my time?

do you get it?




FYI i read tons of hiphop shop threads but its so much bullshit that i would rather just be an asshole in gen chat where its expected rather that contribute to the downfall of this forum.


some of yall don't know how to communicate effectively.
but some of yall just don't know how to communicate.

The Grandmaster
08-03-2009, 02:08 AM
wow u guys couldnt be more wrong. hip-hop is about rockin icy chains and doing ghetto stuff therefore gucci mane is the best rapper ever.

and yes, thats a fact only cuz thats my personal taste.

11th Chamber
08-03-2009, 02:33 AM
wow u guys couldnt be more wrong. hip-hop is about rockin icy chains and doing ghetto stuff therefore gucci mane is the best rapper ever.

and yes, thats a fact only cuz thats my personal taste.

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper366/stills/u4ks0mje.jpg















































http://farm1.static.flickr.com/11/12401591_972e0cbe89.jpg?v=0

Poetic Wun
08-03-2009, 02:39 AM
wow u guys couldnt be more wrong. hip-hop is about rockin icy chains and doing ghetto stuff therefore gucci mane is the best rapper ever.

and yes, thats a fact only cuz thats my personal taste.
..... i'm really not sure how to take this... you got solja boy n wayne in ur sig... a joke tho??

ALCATRAZ
08-03-2009, 03:06 AM
i fell out of love with hip hop

what a fuckin nerd lol

GhettoGnom
08-03-2009, 07:25 AM
What the fuck does the production have to do with whether Eazy E was a better rapper? Canibus in his prime would have to wait in line to suck Eazy-E's dick and I don't care whether Eazy-Duz-it is still unreleased in Norway or not. E shits on Canibus but the backpacker in you says otherwise. Guaranteed you haven't heard shit from E other than the song Straight Outta Compton.

Yeah, that must be the only possible explanation! Oh, how I love debating with open minded people.

Eazy-E had a ghostwriter in his prime.

Uncle Steezo
08-03-2009, 11:30 AM
i was gonna put turtle on blast for that then said fuck it.
but cube wrote dre AND easy's verses.

theDZA
08-03-2009, 12:43 PM
i was gonna put turtle on blast for that then said fuck it.
but cube wrote dre AND easy's verses.

who write them after NWA broke up...his lyrics then were better anyway, listen to Still a Nigga, Real Muthafuckin G's, Wut Would You Do...

and i'm pretty sure that 11th chamber was being sarcastic when he said:

"yea cause the mixtape game was really poppin off in the 90's compared to now"

i hope he was, cuz thats a good point either way, how many rap artists had mixapes back in the early + mid 90s? compare that to now when some artists have more mixtapes then albums lol

anyway i ent gonna get involved in this shit, tupac is better in my opinion but people who are trying to argue shit ent gonna change anyone elses opinion, especially when half of you ent givin reasons as to why either one is better (i know, i'm now guilty of that too now)

Poetic Wun
08-03-2009, 12:53 PM
who write them after NWA broke up...his lyrics then were better anyway, listen to Still a Nigga, Real Muthafuckin G's, Wut Would You Do...

and i'm pretty sure that 11th chamber was being sarcastic when he said:

"yea cause the mixtape game was really poppin off in the 90's compared to now"

i hope he was, cuz thats a good point either way, how many rap artists had mixapes back in the early + mid 90s? compare that to now when some artists have more mixtapes then albums lol

anyway i ent gonna get involved in this shit, tupac is better in my opinion but people who are trying to argue shit ent gonna change anyone elses opinion, especially when half of you ent givin reasons as to why either one is better (i know, i'm now guilty of that too now)
no maybe they weren't but those songs are still in the artists catalog... some of my fav songs came out on mixtapes... if we argued how Rae can't rap i GUARANTEE someone will bring up at least 1 song from a mixtape.

which is also a good point in itself... if 2pac were still alive today do you HONESTLY think he wouldn't participate? alot of the vets from his time do so what would exclude him?

theDZA
08-03-2009, 12:57 PM
no maybe they weren't but those songs are still in the artists catalog... some of my fav songs came out on mixtapes... if we argued how Rae can't rap i GUARANTEE someone will bring up at least 1 song from a mixtape.

which is also a good point in itself... if 2pac were still alive today do you HONESTLY think he wouldn't participate? alot of the vets from his time do so what would exclude him?

guess that's true...like i said tho, i really ent got the energy to argue who was better and shit, no-one will change opinions based on it...so fuck it

btw....the wolverine sig is sick...but blade would kick his ass....

Poetic Wun
08-03-2009, 01:15 PM
guess that's true...like i said tho, i really ent got the energy to argue who was better and shit, no-one will change opinions based on it...so fuck it

btw....the wolverine sig is sick...but blade would kick his ass....
BLADE??? there's no complexity to his style! that's it, YOUR OFF MY BUDDY LIST BITCH jp

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-03-2009, 01:21 PM
btw....the wolverine sig is sick...but blade would kick his ass....

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u112/smartiesg/BLADE005_cov-1.jpg

Uncle Steezo
08-03-2009, 01:47 PM
there are 13 makaveli mixtapes.

ALCATRAZ
08-03-2009, 01:51 PM
makaveli tapes > any mixtape series in the rap genre

The Hound
08-03-2009, 02:13 PM
Yeah, that must be the only possible explanation! Oh, how I love debating with open minded people.

Eazy-E had a ghostwriter in his prime.

WOW

REALLY?

ICE CUBE WROTE EAZY-E's LYRICS? NO SHIT? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?

Like I didn't fucking know that. That still doesn't take away from the fact the Eazy-E has Canibus covered in

Flow
Delivery
Mic Presence
Personality

Eazy E wins this in a first round KO.

Again, you guys just can't come up with legit reasons as to why your fairy backpacker heroes are better than 2Pac or Eazy-E and start resorting to dumb shit like "Lupe raps about abstract moons" and "Ice Cube wrote E's lyrics when he was at NWA."

Poetic Wun
08-03-2009, 02:25 PM
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u112/smartiesg/BLADE005_cov-1.jpg
lol my nigga

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-03-2009, 02:26 PM
^^^lol i'd pay to see that bout though

those makaveli tapes are fucking raw, it's a shame how they changed beats/features on alot of the songs to reuse them for his posthumous albums

The Grandmaster
08-03-2009, 04:36 PM
WOW

REALLY?

ICE CUBE WROTE EAZY-E's LYRICS? NO SHIT? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?

Like I didn't fucking know that. That still doesn't take away from the fact the Eazy-E has Canibus covered in

Flow
Delivery
Mic Presence
Personality

Eazy E wins this in a first round KO.

Again, you guys just can't come up with legit reasons as to why your fairy backpacker heroes are better than 2Pac or Eazy-E and start resorting to dumb shit like "Lupe raps about abstract moons" and "Ice Cube wrote E's lyrics when he was at NWA."

first of all i dont agree with eazy-e covering canibus in any of these areas except personality(but then again were not judging whos the better person or comedian)

but to answer

wut about lyrics and battling

oh no thats right, those 2 areas r insignificant for every other hip-hop fan and rap music becuz they dont appeal to you personally

faggot

The Hound
08-03-2009, 04:42 PM
But you're a faggot who thinks Lupe Fiasco is better than 2Pac so your opinion is as good as dog shit.

Canibus wins the battling by default but Eazy E still made better diss tracks than Canibus which is a consolation and the lyricism aspect was already covered.

Faggot.

The Grandmaster
08-03-2009, 05:05 PM
ur assumption is justified but not true. i didnt create this thread to affirm that i prefered lupe, it had a hidden message whos role was to stir up this discussion we are now into.

and the lyricism aspect was covered by who? all u said was that u feel lyrics count for shit in hip-hop therefore thats the truth and lupe loses and then u asked us to come up with other reasons why 2pac wasnt better.

u basically just disregarded it and demanded us to answer the thread trough ur narrowed view of things.

food for thought
08-03-2009, 05:13 PM
u have lil wanye in your sig, faggot.

The Grandmaster
08-03-2009, 05:21 PM
wait til u see my bedroom walls.

oDoUoSoKo
08-03-2009, 06:08 PM
i was gonna put turtle on blast for that then said fuck it.
but cube wrote dre AND easy's verses.
how do u expect me to respond to the fact that u said i need to analyze pac lyrics? honestly i apologize for not explaining myself, i just find alot of what ur saying to be absolutely ridiculous, so i get so heated that i say very little. and its funny Energy turtle, because i dont have a reputation for being a dick on this site, but u do...and i think im seeing why now.

oDoUoSoKo
08-03-2009, 06:11 PM
WOW

REALLY?

ICE CUBE WROTE EAZY-E's LYRICS? NO SHIT? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?

Like I didn't fucking know that. That still doesn't take away from the fact the Eazy-E has Canibus covered in

Flow
Delivery
Mic Presence
Personality

Eazy E wins this in a first round KO.

Again, you guys just can't come up with legit reasons as to why your fairy backpacker heroes are better than 2Pac or Eazy-E and start resorting to dumb shit like "Lupe raps about abstract moons" and "Ice Cube wrote E's lyrics when he was at NWA."
this isnt fuckin Miss America, u cant seriously say hes better and u kno what? im gonna do what u did to me and say u arent properly explaining yourself.:frusty:

Dr. Simon Hurt
08-03-2009, 06:20 PM
^^^lol

personality? really?

eazy-e had a good flow? really? and doesn't it matter that he didn't write his own shit?

oDoUoSoKo
08-04-2009, 12:04 AM
i could also say that he made an allegorical concept album that deals with rap cliches...but that def. aint enough proof, or sufficient enough of an example..so y bother? like brother without the r

The Hound
08-04-2009, 04:55 AM
ur assumption is justified but not true. i didnt create this thread to affirm that i prefered lupe, it had a hidden message whos role was to stir up this discussion we are now into.

and the lyricism aspect was covered by who? all u said was that u feel lyrics count for shit in hip-hop therefore thats the truth and lupe loses and then u asked us to come up with other reasons why 2pac wasnt better.

u basically just disregarded it and demanded us to answer the thread trough ur narrowed view of things.

I said lyricism wasn't the be all and end all of defining a rapper.

You said Lupe was better - what is your take the? Nothing other than "Oh he has abstract lyricism" or some dumb shit.

this isnt fuckin Miss America, u cant seriously say hes better and u kno what? im gonna do what u did to me and say u arent properly explaining yourself.:frusty:

I can seriously say he is better and I did and no you can't say what I said to you because I have already outline where I said he was better whereas you just got dumb and cried and started saying "ohhhhh but but you don't have you're own opinion."

^^^lol

personality? really?

eazy-e had a good flow? really? and doesn't it matter that he didn't write his own shit?

^^ Mad because I neg repped you about 6 months ago.

theDZA
08-04-2009, 07:21 AM
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u112/smartiesg/BLADE005_cov-1.jpg

if you actually read the comic you'll see that that don't even happen...in the end blade was gonna inject him wiv sum shit and turn him into a vamp but changed his mind when he recognised him from back in the day. plus fights in comics between heroes never make sense...therefore blade would kill his ass lol

anyway back to topic... and i would say eazy has a sick flow....this therad is funny, its slowly turning into eazy e vs canibus lol

oDoUoSoKo
08-04-2009, 07:05 PM
I said lyricism wasn't the be all and end all of defining a rapper.

You said Lupe was better - what is your take the? Nothing other than "Oh he has abstract lyricism" or some dumb shit.



I can seriously say he is better and I did and no you can't say what I said to you because I have already outline where I said he was better whereas you just got dumb and cried and started saying "ohhhhh but but you don't have you're own opinion."



^^ Mad because I neg repped you about 6 months ago.
Nail in the coffin...just displayed ur insanity.

The Hound
08-05-2009, 12:54 AM
More bullshit from you - you're nothing but "smh" "smfh" "dude eloels" "nail in coffin" still not saying shit to back up your opinion. It has become apparent with you that you're arguing for argument's sake.

ALCATRAZ
08-05-2009, 03:23 AM
dusk stay out of hip hop shop this place aint 4 u brah

Rollo
08-05-2009, 03:51 AM
Lupe has an average flow and no mic presence.
His word play is corny and I hate his personna, so 2pac.

Rollo
08-05-2009, 03:53 AM
eazy-e had a good flow? really? and doesn't it matter that he didn't write his own shit?



What difference do lyrics make if you can't execute them? The vocal aspect is most important.

Canibus doesn't have great lyrics most of the time, most of the time he has irrelevant pseudoscientific dribble he babbles on about himself and nothing of interest.

I don't think someone is lyrically dope just because they claim to be complex.
To be dope is to be good, can you really sit there and say "the killer cobra who will hover over jehova on an axel with sycamore rotors" is terribly relevant or lyrical in regard to everyday life? ...
What sort of feeling does that strike up? None.

Sure, he has a few lines here and there, but a lot of his shit just does not matter.
I'm not going to say he's terrible or bad even but for fucks sakes, just because you freestyle well and can rhyme a lot of syllables, that does not make you a fucking lyricist.
Canibus might be a backpack God, but he is not a lyricist.
Last Emperor is a lyricist, tragedy Khadafi is a lyricist, Nas is a lyricist, Common is a lyricist.

Canibus is a good rapper, no doubt, but his lyrics are the very thing that get him ignored by most, for that reason his lyrics might actually be his weak point.

The Hound
08-05-2009, 04:19 AM
lol Rollo just murdered this, close thread.

dreday99
08-05-2009, 09:16 AM
What difference do lyrics make if you can't execute them? The vocal aspect is most important.

Canibus doesn't have great lyrics most of the time, most of the time he has irrelevant pseudoscientific dribble he babbles on about himself and nothing of interest.

I don't think someone is lyrically dope just because they claim to be complex.
To be dope is to be good, can you really sit there and say "the killer cobra who will hover over jehova on an axel with sycamore rotors" is terribly relevant or lyrical in regard to everyday life? ...
What sort of feeling does that strike up? None.

Sure, he has a few lines here and there, but a lot of his shit just does not matter.
I'm not going to say he's terrible or bad even but for fucks sakes, just because you freestyle well and can rhyme a lot of syllables, that does not make you a fucking lyricist.
Canibus might be a backpack God, but he is not a lyricist.
Last Emperor is a lyricist, tragedy Khadafi is a lyricist, Nas is a lyricist, Common is a lyricist.

Canibus is a good rapper, no doubt, but his lyrics are the very thing that get him ignored by most, for that reason his lyrics might actually be his weak point.


So to your point, would that then be the determining factor for whether or not lyrically canibus is just not good period? sometimes the best artist are the most abstract. would you agree to that? picasso, jimi hendrix, etc. they avoided the norm, and while jimi's pyschadelic interpretation of the star spangled banner was non sensical to some ears, if you took a further listen it turned out to be beautiful.

the same to me can be said to some of the lyrics that don't make sense, but are symbolic and abstract, and also catch the ear. when warcloud raps off beat and says nothing, it's garbage. when warcloud flows like water off a dope beat, it's wonderful and lyrical. when ghostface opens his classic opus talking about: "scientific/ my hand kissed it/ robotic listed/ scotty wotty copper ticked it...." that mumbo jumbo made no sense, even to him! but it was fucking beautiful, described perfect by him when he then stated he was a microphone hippy.

finally, you can't be a great lyricist if you have a ghostwriter, straight up and no question. i'll back that up by using this example. if eazy was a great spitter because he took Cube's words and used his great voice and prescence to make it work, am i then a great writer if i re-write Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet word for word, but I add to it a beautiful font, coloring, on a waterstained paper and stitched leather hard cover? Am I a great poet if I beautifully recite Life Ain't no Crystal Stair? do you understand where i'm going?

just my humble op....

METHODKillah36
08-05-2009, 11:14 AM
i didnt create this thread to affirm that i prefered lupe, it had a hidden message whos role was to stir up this discussion we are now into.

l
m
a
o

Rollo
08-05-2009, 01:14 PM
So to your point, would that then be the determining factor for whether or not lyrically canibus is just not good period?



sometimes the best artist are the most abstract. would you agree to that?

Canibus is not abstract, he's irrelevant.
Different does not mean abstract, abstract is a much more complex way of illustrating
something by enveloping your message in a different form of imagery, usually by distorting your original message by over emphasizing certain things. Slug from atmosphere would be abstract.




picasso, jimi hendrix, etc. they avoided the norm, and while jimi's pyschadelic interpretation of the star spangled banner was non sensical to some ears, if you took a further listen it turned out to be beautiful.

the same to me can be said to some of the lyrics that don't make sense,






First of all, a guitar cannot reveal anything abstract, jimmy hendrix's style is not abstract, just different. Being different alone does not make you abstract imo
Secondly, bus's lyrics make sense, it's just that a wide majority of them are just bad.

No, it's not that I don't get them, it's simply that they take absolutely no artistic ability to write.
As I said before, they're dribble..

but are symbolic and abstract, and also catch the ear. when warcloud raps off beat and says nothing, it's garbage. when warcloud flows like water off a dope beat, it's wonderful and lyrical. when ghostface opens his classic opus talking about: "scientific/ my hand kissed it/ robotic listed/ scotty wotty copper ticked it...." that mumbo jumbo made no sense, even to him! but it was fucking beautiful, described perfect by him when he then stated he was a microphone hippy.


I don't call that beautiful good sir.
You and I have two completely different polarizing views on beauty.
I don't believe in beauty, just the ability to get a certain reaction from the human condition.
And it really doesn't get that reaction from me.
Ghostface has done it before, but no not there.

finally, you can't be a great lyricist if you have a ghostwriter



WHO THE FUCK SAID E WAS A GREAT LYRICIST?!?!? Stop implying shit I never uttered.
please... I can't stand it when people do that.

I simply said, if you can't execute your lyrics, it doesn't matter how good they are.
Rap is spoken not written.
That's what makes it rap and not simply writing.


You don't have to write lyrics to be a great spitter, just be a great spitter.

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-05-2009, 01:22 PM
Saying Lupe is better than 2pac is like saying Usher is better than MJ.

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-05-2009, 02:36 PM
2pac aint a lyricist? Please. Lupe would kill to have lyrics as real and clear as this

Wikrv81Fh3I

Mic Tyson
08-05-2009, 03:20 PM
2pac aint a lyricist? Please. Lupe would kill to have lyrics as real and clear as this

Wikrv81Fh3I

idk why faggots are saying 2pac isn't a lyricist considering all the classic songs he's made. Lupe's faggot ass can only make songs about skateboarding and stupid shit like that.

GhettoGnom
08-05-2009, 03:35 PM
idk why faggots are saying 2pac isn't a lyricist considering all the classic songs he's made. Lupe's faggot ass can only make songs about skateboarding and stupid shit like that.

Then again, you're displaying the same ignorance those who claim pac isn't a lyricist shows by you're Lupe statements, and most of the pac defenders (as well as lupe defenders) does the same.. It's kind of like a war between retards...

jerseykidd
08-05-2009, 04:11 PM
How the hell are Lupe and Pac even comparable, Different styles, different eras of hip hop

word

sdeblasi
08-05-2009, 04:52 PM
Saying Lupe is better than 2pac is like saying Usher is better than MJ.

this

dreday99
08-05-2009, 06:07 PM
Rollo,

Canibus being irrelevant or not seems not to be the issue; fact is, you're right. he's very irrelevant. but one doesn't have to be relevant to be abstract. the two terms have no impact on the other. there was a time when he was relevant, but to me he wasn't abstract then, his rhymes and metaphors were more solid, whereas now he attempts to reach new heights with his rhymes, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing.

i disagree with you on your opinion on jimi's guitar as well, the fact is to me that your tool or instrument can be the extension of the abstract qualities you posess. hendrix's tool of choice was the guitar, while picasso's was the brush, and so forth. it's an inanimate object that by itself is obviously not abstract, but when put in the right hands....

ok replace beautiful with whatever adjective you'd like. the point is, ghostface, along with Slug, and Aesop Rock, etc., all have crafted at times utter nonsense into ear pleasing music. i mean Supreme Clientele is heralded to be Ghost's greatest album and half of it is like the opening verse of Nutmeg. And that's what makes it wonderful. wonderfully abstract, but brilliant nonetheless.

I never said you personally stated E being a great lyricist, my post was in response to the general statements made supporting E, I simply took your post being the last to do so and quoted it.

I still stand by my statement, if Eazy is a better spitter than canibus, then i'm a better writer than Dean Koontz, because i rewrote his book in a prettier font. but i respect your opinion, and appreciate your educated rebuttal, and the fact that you avoided going down the namecalling road.

Rollo
08-05-2009, 06:41 PM
Rollo,

Canibus being irrelevant or not seems not to be the issue
; fact is, you're right. he's very irrelevant. but one doesn't have to be relevant to be abstract. the two terms have no impact on the other. there was a time when he was relevant, but to me he wasn't abstract then, his rhymes and metaphors were more solid, whereas now he attempts to reach new heights with his rhymes, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing.


I was talking about his relevance before anyone mentioned "abstract".
When I first spoke on his relevance, it wasn't in regard to him being abstract, it was in regard to someone calling him a lyricist, HE ISN'T.
It's not that you have to be relevant to be abstract, it's that you have to be relevant to be a lyricist or any form of artist. Art is the human struggle, the definition of the word lyrical is to be personal and I say that factually, not out of my own bias.

. Expressing deep personal emotion or observations

That is the definition of lyrical, I'm sorry, but that is not usual Canibus.
Usual Canibus is therefor not lyrical.


As for being abstract, I already said what is abstract as far as I am concerned.
I don't feel he is abstract.








i disagree with you on your opinion on jimi's guitar as well, the fact is to me that your tool or instrument can be the extension of the abstract qualities you posess.


We're debating whether the music is abstract, not the person.
As for sound, sound is sound, words have meanings and while sound may evoke emotion, it only does so when accompanied by some form of actual intelligible expression, either visually or verbally.

Now if you wish to say his act is somehow abstract and he's orchistrated this to reveal something deeper by hiding it under a distorted sort of production, fine but I don't see it.

In regard to picasso, I wonde if anyone has ever entertained the idea that he simply may be a crappy a painter? lol

Moving on though.



ok replace beautiful with whatever adjective you'd like. the point is, ghostface, along with Slug, and Aesop Rock, etc., all have crafted at times utter nonsense into ear pleasing music.




Aesop Rock has NEVER made ear pleasing music to me. Slug is simply backpacker hippster selling off some lame grainy samples and a pat boonish version of boom bap.
I don't like atmosphere, but Slug is sensical.
The man doesn't have nonsensical lyrics to me, even if it takes a second to understand them.
Ghostface seems nonsensical on the surface, but in reality, he often expresses himself in ways most don't understand.

Abstract does not mean nonsensical.



I still stand by my statement, if Eazy is a better spitter than canibus, then i'm a better writer than Dean Koontz, because i rewrote his book in a prettier font.


Again, spitting is actually rapping, not writing. It makes no difference who wrote them if you can't actually rap. So this seems a little on the non sensical side to me.

but i respect your opinion, and appreciate your educated rebuttal, and the fact that you avoided going down the namecalling road.

Oh, I don't feel anything toward people, I simply haven't been given a reason to name call.
I realized a long time ago, forum conversation has no positive benefits, it's a waste of time. I have lots of time to waste though.

oDoUoSoKo
08-05-2009, 08:46 PM
this thread gets funnier everyday...lmao..its like the fuckin smart people are watching from the rooftops laughin their asses off.

ALCATRAZ
08-05-2009, 10:47 PM
this thread gets funnier everyday...lmao..its like the fuckin smart people are watching from the rooftops laughin their asses off.


i hope you don't think you're one of those smart people, and i hope by smart people you don't mean lupe supporters lol

faggit

oDoUoSoKo
08-05-2009, 10:49 PM
no i actually mean everyone but you at this point.

EAGLE EYE
08-05-2009, 11:08 PM
Canibus is not abstract, he's irrelevant.
Different does not mean abstract, abstract is a much more complex way of illustrating
something by enveloping your message in a different form of imagery, usually by distorting your original message by over emphasizing certain things. Slug from atmosphere would be abstract.









First of all, a guitar cannot reveal anything abstract, jimmy hendrix's style is not abstract, just different. Being different alone does not make you abstract imo
Secondly, bus's lyrics make sense, it's just that a wide majority of them are just bad.

No, it's not that I don't get them, it's simply that they take absolutely no artistic ability to write.
As I said before, they're dribble..


I don't call that beautiful good sir.
You and I have two completely different polarizing views on beauty.
I don't believe in beauty, just the ability to get a certain reaction from the human condition.
And it really doesn't get that reaction from me.
Ghostface has done it before, but no not there.


WHO THE FUCK SAID E WAS A GREAT LYRICIST?!?!? Stop implying shit I never uttered.
please... I can't stand it when people do that.

I simply said, if you can't execute your lyrics, it doesn't matter how good they are.
Rap is spoken not written.
That's what makes it rap and not simply writing.


You don't have to write lyrics to be a great spitter, just be a great spitter.



http://bluemoviereviews.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/role-models.jpg

Rollo
08-06-2009, 12:51 AM
http://bluemoviereviews.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/role-models.jpg

I guess it does feel like that.

The Grandmaster
08-06-2009, 02:31 AM
I said lyricism wasn't the be all and end all of defining a rapper.

You said Lupe was better - what is your take the? Nothing other than "Oh he has abstract lyricism" or some dumb shit.

ok so u can value flow over lyrics and call it fact but nobody can value lyrics over flow without being a dumbass?

im not rooting for lupe, im just rooting for sence which u completely lack.

The Grandmaster
08-08-2009, 11:56 PM
shiitt, bump

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-09-2009, 06:28 AM
after this night, I felt like I can't jerk off to Lupe

that would be so gay

I can jerk off to TuPac's music, cuz it's appealing


and I'm feeling a little gangsta myself too!

The Hound
08-09-2009, 03:05 PM
ok so u can value flow over lyrics and call it fact but nobody can value lyrics over flow without being a dumbass?

im not rooting for lupe, im just rooting for sence which u completely lack.

You're not valuing lyrics you're valuing multi's and worldplay - Pac was still tight with the lyrics which makes this even mroe absurd.

ALCATRAZ
08-09-2009, 06:44 PM
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/nagchampa86/Music%20Related/3371106215_441b4f5e1a_o.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/nagchampa86/Music%20Related/3371919988_0dbbcd5a53_o.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/nagchampa86/Music%20Related/3371924664_8e4308b568_o.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/nagchampa86/Music%20Related/pacsierraleone.jpg














































































































































































http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/nagchampa86/Music%20Related/featured_lupeYE.jpg
*farts*

oDoUoSoKo
08-09-2009, 07:05 PM
man, your right, its about image...what was i thinking.

The Hound
08-09-2009, 07:32 PM
Then what the fuck is it about, craft metaphors and wordplay? It's hard to know what you're getting at when you don't explain yourself.

oDoUoSoKo
08-09-2009, 07:35 PM
what i'm getting at? im not getting at nothing..my response was directed towards his posting of fuckin pictures...do u think the fact that 2pac can look like a fuckin gangsta makes him a BETTER RAPPER than Lupe?

ALCATRAZ
08-09-2009, 07:48 PM
my point is that 2pac's legacy was greater than just rap ... lupe may be able to match intricate words and make complex rhymes, but what does that really count for when you have absolutely no mic presence whatsoever? he is a boring emcee, and i could care less how extensive his vocab is, if you can't rock a crowd you got no business rapping ... remember, the man you are cosigning is the one who got booed at the hip hop honors for not even knowing the lyrics to one of tribe's biggest records ... lupe is not hip hop, he's a wind up toy

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-09-2009, 07:55 PM
2pac has substance. Lupe is just another modern plastic rapper. Theres nothing really there that stirs any emotions.

ALCATRAZ
08-09-2009, 08:00 PM
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/nagchampa86/Music%20Related/lupe-fiasco-rocks-the-mic.jpg



















































































































































































































http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/nagchampa86/Music%20Related/13.jpg

oDoUoSoKo
08-09-2009, 10:19 PM
my point is that 2pac's legacy was greater than just rap ... lupe may be able to match intricate words and make complex rhymes, but what does that really count for when you have absolutely no mic presence whatsoever? he is a boring emcee, and i could care less how extensive his vocab is, if you can't rock a crowd you got no business rapping ... remember, the man you are cosigning is the one who got booed at the hip hop honors for not even knowing the lyrics to one of tribe's biggest records ... lupe is not hip hop, he's a wind up toy
smfh, than hes a better person, better activist..NOT RAPPER, HELLO?!?!?! jesus.

The Grandmaster
08-10-2009, 10:03 PM
my point is that 2pac's legacy was greater than just rap ... lupe may be able to match intricate words and make complex rhymes, but what does that really count for when you have absolutely no mic presence whatsoever? he is a boring emcee, and i could care less how extensive his vocab is, if you can't rock a crowd you got no business rapping ... remember, the man you are cosigning is the one who got booed at the hip hop honors for not even knowing the lyrics to one of tribe's biggest records ... lupe is not hip hop, he's a wind up toy

i stoped at "his legacy" lmao.

2pac has substance. Lupe is just another modern plastic rapper. Theres nothing really there that stirs any emotions.

this discussion is so one sided cuz of idiots like u who most likely dont even know who lupe is.

emotionless?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPyVokGKhhE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUY4z99AtcA

rly?

You're not valuing lyrics you're valuing multi's and worldplay - Pac was still tight with the lyrics which makes this even mroe absurd.

wtfukin shit. now ur telling me how i value lyrics without even me speaking nothing of it?

u guys r rly treating lupe like some kind of backpacker with no appeal which tells alot on u guys knowledge of his music. wutver tupac could do on the mic, lupe could do it also. i can also prove it, lets do a song by song contest if u want.

The Hound
08-11-2009, 01:34 AM
u guys r rly treating lupe like some kind of backpacker with no appeal which tells alot on u guys knowledge of his music. wutver tupac could do on the mic, lupe could do it also. i can also prove it, lets do a song by song contest if u want.

I already offered this many pages back, you're 7 songs behind.

G36TCDG_vDU
jxDoE-hzo7s
pgTMvuTIiwk
PA5qKkyVOWA
O2GVOGyyFB0
nkJA6SYwa94
QCePJoY6MTE

One song off every 2Pac album he worked on that is better than anything Lupe ever did and we could play a game where you post a Lupe song and I post a song Pac did that was better off a different album.

The Grandmaster
08-11-2009, 08:55 PM
ok just wait a bit ill come up wit better or same leveled songs by lupe. im a bit busy right now.

oDoUoSoKo
08-11-2009, 09:08 PM
smh, watch this...

NGlqt1LiHzc (sorry, couldnt find a better version, dope song)
bkOA31IPszE
1pPeecR7d_w
U8wQIMHw8eA
O9LUbrF8meo(not full version)
BVzuUo6Fy6s
82ZuOjJqiLU(again, only thing available...shitty intro..eloels)

The Hound
08-11-2009, 10:44 PM
A whole lot bullshit would have been saved if you just backed yourself up like that in the first place and we could have rationaly discussed this issue with real proof.

First song, live footage but I've heard the song before off his first album.

Second, third and fourth are nice and must be from these incredible mixtapes you crapped on about because I don't remember hearing them on Food & Liquor or The Cool but they were hardly next level shit. Nice songs, I won't lie but they weren't superior to any of the Pac songs I posted - especially lyrically but like I said I won't lie and they weren't inferior either.

The rest of the songs I've heard on his albums and they are nice but hardly next level or bringing ridiculously dope shit.

ALCATRAZ
08-11-2009, 11:53 PM
xkqlQAEPLAw

RhVSA-Zv978

lupe stays losing

food for thought
08-11-2009, 11:53 PM
^lmao

oDoUoSoKo
08-12-2009, 07:52 PM
Second, third and fourth are nice and must be from these incredible mixtapes you crapped on about because I don't remember hearing them on Food & Liquor or The Cool but they were hardly next level shit. Nice songs, I won't lie but they weren't superior to any of the Pac songs I posted - especially lyrically but like I said I won't lie and they weren't inferior either.

The rest of the songs I've heard on his albums and they are nice but hardly next level or bringing ridiculously dope shit.

what are u talkin about? like i made a big deal? really? smh

and i didnt post the songs because i felt they were next level shit, they are 7 lupe songs i like.

oDoUoSoKo
08-12-2009, 07:54 PM
smh, watch this...



xkqlQAEPLAw

RhVSA-Zv978

lupe stays losing
see? exactly what i expected.

ALCATRAZ
08-12-2009, 08:12 PM
you mad dusk? you mad ur favorite rapper can't even rap without falling lol

oDoUoSoKo
08-12-2009, 09:16 PM
lmao @ favorite rapper.

Ghost In The 'Lac
08-12-2009, 09:35 PM
smh at this dude lupe rapping with a micstand

chadxbyron
08-13-2009, 01:31 AM
yo, lupe is just a regular rapper who raps rap...

pac, pac wasnt a rapper, he was a spokes person for the people...our people.

most cats here cant relate, but they do relate with that kick push punk rap lol werd


pac = hiphop culture

lupe = punk rap

theres your damn explanation

chadxbyron
08-13-2009, 01:37 AM
Saying Lupe is better than 2pac is like saying Usher is better than MJ.

hahahah damn right

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-13-2009, 03:17 AM
skamoe got it wrong, kick push is another song for the people, especially part 2, great song

saying Pac or Lupe are not good rappers is just straight hating

now speakonitgod, your favourite rapper died, so I think falling off a stage is not a bigger fail than that [I'm gonna love this, cuz it's so wrong]

ALCATRAZ
08-13-2009, 04:40 AM
now speakonitgod, your favourite rapper died, so I think falling off a stage is not a bigger fail than that [I'm gonna love this, cuz it's so wrong

you couldn't even make one post without backtracking, you spineless pussy

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-13-2009, 06:35 AM
that's all? is it annoying you that I have a new e-pet?

oDoUoSoKo
08-13-2009, 08:14 PM
now speakonitgod, your favourite rapper died, so I think falling off a stage is not a bigger fail than that [I'm gonna love this, cuz it's so wrong]
laugh my ass off.

osiris3000
08-14-2009, 01:55 PM
I guess i'll put my 5 cents in after i've read all 14 pages. Correct me if i'm wrong but the majority of the posters who think lupe is beter than pac are probably under 25. You would be better to compare Lupe to Qtip or Guru. He's inferior to both of them even. He could surpass them if he can drop about 3 more classic albums. Not impossible but a hell of a task. Guru has 5 or 6 depending on who u ask and Tip has the 1st 3 tribe albums.

Lupe's second album is bullshit and only has about 3 good songs. The first one was good and a breath of fresh air in the Post-Pac era. And I say that kuz Pac was like the christ of this shit. It's B.P. before Pac and A.P. After pac.

I didn't fully appreciate this dude until he died cuz I was wu-crazy when he was alive and seen him as lesser than them because I felt like Ice cube scarface and eazy-e had already covered the gangster thing the best way it could be done. (Lupe couldn't stick a toe in the shoes of Scaface or Cube. Both of whom influenced Pac including eazy-e. I'll give you eazy on the strength that cube wrote his shit then mc ren. After that Bone? Kokane? I still think eazy's better personally but....that's me.

Back to the matter

osiris3000
08-14-2009, 02:24 PM
When Pac dies, Gay-z blows up, Diddy blows up, Master P comes from nowhere and blows up opening the door for cash money. Rap all of a sudden becomes simple and materialistic and the industry takes over. Puffy takes the grammy from wu and it's the beginning of the end!! Jarule and Dmx blow up capitalizing off of Pac's image. Pac left a big void and the wu was just to far over people's heads and couldn't compete with the industry driven satanic bling bling era. The resurrecting power of the culture of hiphop falls back in favor of a watered down version of fake gangsterism and dance music.

osiris3000
08-14-2009, 02:35 PM
This shit ain't even debatable but I guess a lot of yall ain't got shit to do so yall come up with krazy shit like this to get a response. There is no lil wayne if Pac doesn't die and the south stays in its place with only the skilled southern rappers surfacing like geto boys and the dungeon family. Ugk and Suave house. Hiphop keeps evolving.

And for all yal that say Pac wasn't lyrical listen to shit like street fame the original version and never had a friend like me. Runnin on e. Pac was going to another level once he got out of his contract with satan but was assassinated before he got a chance to do it. He was about to get on some african spiritual voodoo shit! Lupe can't see pac! He can't even see Grand Puba, Buckshot, Doitall and mr. funky. Treach, Busta Rhymes.....come on mannnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!! What the fuck is going on in this shit. And I'm a miami nigga! What about Cee-lo, Big Boi and 3000?? Yall niggas trippin

ALCATRAZ
08-14-2009, 07:07 PM
And for all yal that say Pac wasn't lyrical listen to shit like street fame the original version and never had a friend like me. Runnin on e. Pac was going to another level once he got out of his contract with satan but was assassinated before he got a chance to do it. He was about to get on some african spiritual voodoo shit! Lupe can't see pac! He can't even see Grand Puba, Buckshot, Doitall and mr. funky. Treach, Busta Rhymes.....come on mannnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!! What the fuck is going on in this shit. And I'm a miami nigga! What about Cee-lo, Big Boi and 3000?? Yall niggas trippin

great post

oDoUoSoKo
08-15-2009, 02:13 AM
ya , another post that pretty much bashed people for using logic as opposed to following tradition.

oDoUoSoKo
08-15-2009, 02:15 AM
I guess i'll put my 5 cents in after i've read all 14 pages. Correct me if i'm wrong but the majority of the posters who think lupe is beter than pac are probably under 25. You would be better to compare Lupe to Qtip or Guru. He's inferior to both of them even. He could surpass them if he can drop about 3 more classic albums. Not impossible but a hell of a task. Guru has 5 or 6 depending on who u ask and Tip has the 1st 3 tribe albums.

Lupe's second album is bullshit and only has about 3 good songs. The first one was good and a breath of fresh air in the Post-Pac era. And I say that kuz Pac was like the christ of this shit. It's B.P. before Pac and A.P. After pac.

I didn't fully appreciate this dude until he died cuz I was wu-crazy when he was alive and seen him as lesser than them because I felt like Ice cube scarface and eazy-e had already covered the gangster thing the best way it could be done. (Lupe couldn't stick a toe in the shoes of Scaface or Cube. Both of whom influenced Pac including eazy-e. I'll give you eazy on the strength that cube wrote his shit then mc ren. After that Bone? Kokane? I still think eazy's better personally but....that's me.

Back to the matter
:nonono: my knowledge of hip hop goes back farther than your hairline grandpa....

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-15-2009, 09:09 AM
When Pac dies, Gay-z blows up, Diddy blows up, Master P comes from nowhere and blows up opening the door for cash money.

AHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAA this is hilarious

so you are saying the whole industry was depending on Pac?

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
08-15-2009, 09:15 AM
fucking disgusting.

And how could anybody try to compare lupe to tupac?

And how could anybody think that lupe is a better lyracist?

15 pages.

fucking nerds should not be allowed to listen to rap.

ALCATRAZ
08-15-2009, 10:01 AM
AHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAA this is hilarious

so you are saying the whole industry was depending on Pac?
if 2pac biggie and pun were living, there simply wouldnt be enough room for diddy and jayz in the rap game ... they wouldn't have allowed it ...

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-15-2009, 01:57 PM
Biggie wouldn't be in the rap game [at least not so successful] IF PUFFY WASN'T THERE, c'mon that's the logical truth.. as far for saying Jay-Z sux where most of the scene is wacker than him...whatever man

wack rappers existed since the beginning.

oDoUoSoKo
08-15-2009, 02:01 PM
fucking disgusting.

And how could anybody try to compare lupe to tupac?

And how could anybody think that lupe is a better lyracist?

15 pages.

fucking nerds should not be allowed to listen to rap.
this is the reason you guys lose.

Tage
08-15-2009, 02:05 PM
i think the intent of the thread was to ask if 2pac is better lyrically, to which i again reply...no. point blank...fuck popularity and influence...Hitler was an influential writer...dont make him a better writer than, shit..Tom Clancy for example.


well said.

i dont like Lupe or Pac. i think Pac is alot better than Lupe, but i liked your reasoning.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
08-15-2009, 04:52 PM
this is the reason you guys lose.

Who is "you guys" ?

There is no valid reason that Lupe is a better rapper. There is nothing to debate.

First, what is a "good rapper" ?

I would say that it is mostly subjective, and not only that, there are different qualities or criteria that can make a rapper "good" or "bad".

Lyrics? Are you guys fucking serious?

Yes, Lupe uses bigger words. THat is literally the only thing you can say, and I, personally, don't think that big words make a good rapper.

Pac used lyrics that were simple and poignant, but PERFECT for his wide target audience. He had the ability to connect emotionally with his fans because of his lyrics. His choice of words was always skillful.

ALso, the way he used his lyrics and voice as an instrument that interacted with the beat in different ways was brilliant.

THe quality of a song or piece of writing is ultimately determined by the way the narrative is presented, told, and absorbed by the audience.

I have read plenty of pieces and heard plenty of songs where the writer tries to use interesting language to cover up a lack of heart or substance.

DO you guys really think Lupe's goal was to make music only for nerdy white people who don't really understand the soul of hip-hop music?

SOUL.

FOr me, that is the most important part of ALL musical genres and the leadng factor that draws me to an artist.

Nerds and retards are attracted to pseudo-intellectual soulless bullshit like Warcloud and Immortal Technique.

ALCATRAZ
08-15-2009, 06:15 PM
wack rappers existed since the beginning.

nigga ya moms existed from the beginning

Nerds and retards are attracted to pseudo-intellectual soulless bullshit like Warcloud and Immortal Technique.

now why did u have to go and ruin a damn near flawless post

Klawful
08-15-2009, 06:57 PM
I would like to bring this back to Eazy-E being a better rapper than Canibus......

ALCATRAZ
08-15-2009, 10:14 PM
ugh we all know eazy e cannot touch canibus lyrically but i don't know too many niggaz that would rather listen to canibus than eazy e because canibus simply cannot connect like eazy could ... i fucks with canibus tho

osiris3000
08-16-2009, 12:11 AM
Speakonitgod thanx 4 speakin on it God! Dusk I'm 31 bruh I aint that old lol! Wera youre 20 bruh you kinda had to live through that era to understand what i'm saying. No disrespect.

oDoUoSoKo
08-16-2009, 12:47 AM
Who is "you guys" ?

There is no valid reason that Lupe is a better rapper. There is nothing to debate.

First, what is a "good rapper" ?

I would say that it is mostly subjective, and not only that, there are different qualities or criteria that can make a rapper "good" or "bad".

Lyrics? Are you guys fucking serious?

Yes, Lupe uses bigger words. THat is literally the only thing you can say, and I, personally, don't think that big words make a good rapper.

Pac used lyrics that were simple and poignant, but PERFECT for his wide target audience. He had the ability to connect emotionally with his fans because of his lyrics. His choice of words was always skillful.

ALso, the way he used his lyrics and voice as an instrument that interacted with the beat in different ways was brilliant.

THe quality of a song or piece of writing is ultimately determined by the way the narrative is presented, told, and absorbed by the audience.

I have read plenty of pieces and heard plenty of songs where the writer tries to use interesting language to cover up a lack of heart or substance.

DO you guys really think Lupe's goal was to make music only for nerdy white people who don't really understand the soul of hip-hop music?

SOUL.

FOr me, that is the most important part of ALL musical genres and the leadng factor that draws me to an artist.

Nerds and retards are attracted to pseudo-intellectual soulless bullshit like Warcloud and Immortal Technique.
jesus you are truly lost in a sea of ridiculous arbitrary belief. uses big words? has no soul? what the fuck are you refering to? look, once again...i wont try to make u agree with me...just realize that by claiming no contest, your proving that pac is over rated.

BrklynZoo
08-16-2009, 12:55 AM
Both are overrated.

oDoUoSoKo
08-16-2009, 12:57 AM
this would be so much less of a joke if people would get their heads out of their asses and realize they are arguing from the point of view of mainstream hip hop culture...you know who runs that muhammeddan? white people...so dont give me any bullshit about mainstream hip hop having soul, as opposed to where u think lesser known rappers aim to go (or ultimately end up)

dont bother posting anymore.

"YOU THESE FUCKIN NERD FAGGOTOSOSOTSITS AND THRE FUCKIN STUPID ASS BACKPACKIN LUPE, WARCLOUD BULLSHIT!! THEY ALL FAGGOOTOWEMOCAPPOWS THIS THREAD IS RIDISCLOUSOUS ANY REAL BLACK RAP/HIP HOP FAN KNOWS AS A FACT TAHT 2PAC WASA BETTER RAPPER AND A REAL GANGSTA WHO KILLED PEOPLE AND LIVED A THUG LIFE, AND SINCE HE WAS A BETTER PERSON THAT MAKES HIM A BETTER RAPPER, AND SINCE LUPE IS A FAG, HES A FAG.

and ill also cover your response to that^

"YA WELL U JUST TRYING TO GO AGAINST THE GRAIN AND LUPE IS YOUR FAVORITE RAPPER, AND YOUR A FAGGOT AND 2PAC IS A LEGEND AND YOU ARENT SAYING ANYTHING IN YOUR POSTS AND YOU HAVE SAND IN YOUR VAGINA"

goodnight, folks.

Poetic Wun
08-16-2009, 01:52 AM
Who is "you guys" ?

There is no valid reason that Lupe is a better rapper. There is nothing to debate.

First, what is a "good rapper" ?

I would say that it is mostly subjective, and not only that, there are different qualities or criteria that can make a rapper "good" or "bad".

Lyrics? Are you guys fucking serious?

Yes, Lupe uses bigger words. THat is literally the only thing you can say, and I, personally, don't think that big words make a good rapper.

Pac used lyrics that were simple and poignant, but PERFECT for his wide target audience. He had the ability to connect emotionally with his fans because of his lyrics. His choice of words was always skillful.

ALso, the way he used his lyrics and voice as an instrument that interacted with the beat in different ways was brilliant.

THe quality of a song or piece of writing is ultimately determined by the way the narrative is presented, told, and absorbed by the audience.

I have read plenty of pieces and heard plenty of songs where the writer tries to use interesting language to cover up a lack of heart or substance.

DO you guys really think Lupe's goal was to make music only for nerdy white people who don't really understand the soul of hip-hop music?

SOUL.

FOr me, that is the most important part of ALL musical genres and the leadng factor that draws me to an artist.

Nerds and retards are attracted to pseudo-intellectual soulless bullshit like Warcloud and Immortal Technique.
PSH LYRICS??? of course not... puh, who listens to music for the lyrics.

pseudo huh? ...so Pac was a genius?

so because Lupe uses big words, only nerdy white kids understand it?

you talk about the connection with the audience like half the audience wasnt party thugs just just wanted to party, be thugs and hate the east coast while another majority was just a bunch of girls that connected with him taking his clothes off.

niggas don't bring up Pacs conscious shit till you start askin why he was great while they rock his simplistic shit.

oh but its his simple shit that makes him great... right?
or is it that reason itself that makes him generic and easy for the masses to get.

hell... anybody can play pong but Metal Gear Solid isnt for that demographic (thats just an example).

some just want the complexity & the wit. in no way am i saying Lupe doesnt have his short comings... i thought the concept of the daydreamin song was retarded. it was a waste of an ill beat & hook but overall... he isnt looking for the Pac heads.

Poetic Wun
08-16-2009, 01:54 AM
this would be so much less of a joke if people would get their heads out of their asses and realize they are arguing from the point of view of mainstream hip hop culture...you know who runs that muhammeddan? white people...so dont give me any bullshit about mainstream hip hop having soul, as opposed to where u think lesser known rappers aim to go (or ultimately end up)
co sign

The Hound
08-16-2009, 03:18 AM
ya , another post that pretty much bashed people for using logic as opposed to following tradition.

Hang on, didn't you say all this was opinion though? Logic doesn't apply to opinion.

This is why YOU stay losing because you're just chasing your tail trying to justify Lupe being BETTER than 2Pac when you can't actually do it.

Not surprised The Grandmaster couldn't produce Lupe songs BETTER than the 2Pac ones.

ALCATRAZ
08-16-2009, 03:22 AM
goodnight, folks.

nigga dont say goodnight to me FAGGIT

drippie k
08-16-2009, 07:09 AM
sry double post

drippie k
08-16-2009, 07:17 AM
lupe's that dude n makes great music

but 2pac is fucking 2pac...too influencial, too controversial and too much greatness...he wasn't one-dimensional, and neither is lupe, but dude has talked about everything that has been talked about in hip-hop (save those weird-ass raps about aliens or gods n demons or whatever the fuck aesop rick n those weirdos talk about)

DR. NICK RIVIERA
08-16-2009, 08:32 AM
^^^^almost agree with you completly. But obviously, you don't know Aesop Rock - he makes songs about life, work, love, everyday shit actually.


Lupe IS APPEALING to a lot of people - hey, even to me - I get his references about Street Fighter and just the whole geekeness isn't as bad as some of you guys think - I can relate to him, and I like to listen to him, cuz he isn't that average rapper

ALCATRAZ
08-16-2009, 08:40 AM
Lupe IS APPEALING to a lot of people

lol no he's not

theDZA
08-16-2009, 09:39 AM
what is it with all this 'white nerd' shit...like all white people live in castles with butlers and crumpets.....

oDoUoSoKo
08-16-2009, 11:58 AM
Hang on, didn't you say all this was opinion though? Logic doesn't apply to opinion.

This is why YOU stay losing because you're just chasing your tail trying to justify Lupe being BETTER than 2Pac when you can't actually do it.

Not surprised The Grandmaster couldn't produce Lupe songs BETTER than the 2Pac ones.

:looking: .....goodnight folks.

oDoUoSoKo
08-16-2009, 11:59 AM
but 2pac is fucking 2pac...
}:T

L.


oh and btw,,,at this point im not trying to prove Lupe is better jackass..im just gonna keep showing why 2pac isnt.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
08-16-2009, 03:58 PM
You can spend all day trying to prove an opinion, but essentially, it is pointless.

But when trying to define somehing purely personal, ultimately, the overall quality of an artist will be determined by his collective audience and the opinions of prominent scholars.

From the people to the critics, there is no Tupac/Lupe debate.

So some people on here suck Pac's dick, and some people seem to hate him because he was popular.

In between there is the vast middle ground, and again, there really is no debate.

Pac is one of the GOAT. Lupe is Lupe. I don't like him, but I don't particularly hate him or anything.

But the comparison is stupid.

oDoUoSoKo
08-16-2009, 08:59 PM
its stupid because you feel pac is too much of a legend? or because they are both rappers and comparison is irrelevant, and unnecessary?

The Hound
08-16-2009, 09:04 PM
:looking: .....goodnight folks.

Logic doesn't apply to a PERSONAL BELIEF.

You can tell me you like to take dick in your arse because it's better to eat yoghurt when taking dick in your arse - there is no logic there but it's your opinion.

Still waiting for The Grandmaster to respond to essentialy his own challenge.

drippie k
08-16-2009, 09:39 PM
^^^^almost agree with you completly. But obviously, you don't know Aesop Rock - he makes songs about life, work, love, everyday shit actually.


Lupe IS APPEALING to a lot of people - hey, even to me - I get his references about Street Fighter and just the whole geekeness isn't as bad as some of you guys think - I can relate to him, and I like to listen to him, cuz he isn't that average rapper

Mars attacks wit' electric gats
Not for sapien abduction (what's up then?!)
Billy took a laser to the mug piece; hallowed out the mandible
Channel headquarters order the cannonballs (Mars attacksssss)
FBI demands column to this pigeon ankle
And boomeranging' our harvest; 51st area sickness
Not a threat, an area witness won't injure the promise
Monster lead- carry your ligament fanged in the mosh pit

only he know what the fuck he's talking about

but back to the subject at hand, youre right lupe does appeal to a lot of people, saying he doesn't obviously means you havent really listened to a lot of lupe

fv41Vymi71c

oDoUoSoKo
08-16-2009, 09:51 PM
Logic doesn't apply to a PERSONAL BELIEF.

You can tell me you like to take dick in your arse because it's better to eat yoghurt when taking dick in your arse - there is no logic there but it's your opinion.

Still waiting for The Grandmaster to respond to essentialy his own challenge.
Logic applied to everything i posted in this "debate" if ud even call it that

Drunken Monk
09-12-2009, 08:21 PM
rza!

KillahBee09
09-12-2009, 11:08 PM
the fact is 2pac was a ballet dancer and started that whole ''thug life'' thing becaue he knew people would relate to his music, smart man. im not saying that lupe is better but theirs ALOT of emcees better than pac, and lupe could be 1 of them.
Pac was a basic lyricist with an average flow, nothing special at all in my opninion.

Dr. Simon Hurt
09-12-2009, 11:11 PM
i can't believe this thread is still going
lol

ALCATRAZ
09-12-2009, 11:36 PM
the fact is 2pac was a ballet dancer and started that whole ''thug life'' thing becaue he knew people would relate to his music, smart man. im not saying that lupe is better but theirs ALOT of emcees better than pac, and lupe could be 1 of them.
Pac was a basic lyricist with an average flow, nothing special at all in my opninion.
stop talkin out ya ass pac left this earth a made nigga and the haters can't handle it

oDoUoSoKo
09-12-2009, 11:46 PM
eloels^^

EAGLE EYE
09-12-2009, 11:49 PM
HAHAHAHAHAAHHAAH he did take ballet! I remember that shit from watching his documentary.


Damn I wonder what kind of skeletons he had in his closet..
Still love his music.