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View Full Version : Is Heaven Hotter than Hell??? (science disproves bible's accuracy...again)


Art Vandelay
07-27-2009, 05:41 AM
because of ghostlaced's bible vs. pi thread, i decided to post another instance where the bible is proven stupid by science...


HEAVEN IS HOTTER THAN HELL

The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads, Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days. Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation

(H/E)4 = 50
where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798 absolute (525C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.) We have then, temperature of heaven, 525C (977F). Temperature of hell, less than 445F). Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.

Art Vandelay
07-27-2009, 05:42 AM
however, some will disagree...


A REFUTATION OF THE PROOF THAT HEAVEN IS HOTTER THAN HELL

Dr. Tim Healey, F. R. C. R.; M. I. Nuc. E.

In Applied Optics (1972, 11 A14) there appeared a calculation of the respective temperatures of Heaven and Hell. That of Heaven was computed by substituting the values given in Isaiah 30 26 [1] in the Stefan-Boltzman radiation law, so that (H/E)4 = 50, where E, the absolute temperature of the Earth, is 300K, whence the temperature of Heaven, H, is 798K or 525C. This is hard to find fault with.
The assessment of the temperature of Hell stands, I suggest, on less firm ground. As authority we use the data provided in Revelations 21 8 [2], so that the temperature of Hell seems to be 444.6C–the temperature at which liquid sulfur is in equilibrium with its vapour–a temperature indeed which is sufficiently reliable to be used in the secondary calibration of pyrometers.
Now this last reckoning fails to follow the argument through. 444.6C is the temperature at which liquid sulfur is in equilibrium with its vapour at normal atmospheric pressure. Have we any data as to the pressure likely to be found in Hell?
The answer is "Yes". A nineteenth century mathematician has already provided the groundwork for Us [3] and we may feel confident that by the year 2000 the total number of the damned will be at least 29,422,641,251,519,917,000 souls. Yet the area of the valley of Gehinnom [4] is only 7,000,000 square meters.
We can now apply these figures in the Ideal Gas Equation to calculate what the pressure will be in the valley of Gehinnom. Since surely some souls must have been damned since 1877 [5], the pressure can only have increased since these calculations were made and the equilibrium point on the phase diagram of sulfur must have shifted still further, so that if we can show that at a temperature of 525C sulfur would still be liquid at the pressure calculated (which is a minimum value, remember). Hell (Gehinnom) is now cooler than Heaven.
Certain corrections must be applied first, however.
1. Neiht based his calculation on a date of creation of 1658 + 2326 - 1877 = 2107 BC (minimum). Counting generations in the Bible gives a date for the Creation of 4004 BC. However, atomic dating has shown that Olduvai man is at least 2 106 years old [6].
2. We should use a Fibonacci series for the expansion, not a simple doubling series. [7] The ancient Jewish laws against inbreeding also act in the same direction. [8]
3. By a fortunate coincidence, the effects of 1 and 2 cancel each other exactly. [9]
4. The human body is not an ideal gas, but
5. A good deal of it is gaseous at 525C, and in any case,
6. It could well be that at very great pressures the external pressure may well exceed the pressure of electromagnetic repulsion, when different "gas" laws would apply. This merely explains how the Lord works in fitting so large a number of damned souls into so small a space [10] and it need not be quantitative.
In the calculation the following assumptions are made:
1. The average height can be taken as one meter. This seems a fair figure between the newborn babe and the fullgrown man.
2. The average space needed is about 30 cm 20 cm. It seems unlikely that any closer packing could be achieved. Neiht uses a figure of 1/20 cubic meters per person, which is nearly identical with my independent assessment. Mine allows a neat cancellation, later.
3. I have assumed that not more than two layers of damned persons can be accommodated, since otherwise those in the middle layers would escape the full rigours of Hell.
So that,
The volume available in Gehenna is 60 106 2 m3 and
The original volume of the damned is 0.06 29.422641 1018m3
Then, at constant temperature (which we assume, taking equilibrium)
P1V1 = P2V2 or P2 = P1V1/V2
Substituting,
(1)P2 = [29 6 1016] / [2 6 107] = 14.5 109 atmospheres
Now let us see what pressure is needed to liquefy sulfur vapour at 525C.
We have, using the Clausius-Cleypeyron equation in its integrated form,
Log P = 7.43287 - 3268.2 / T
where P = pressure in mm Hg
and T = the elevated boiling point in K,
so that
Log P = 7.43287 - (3268.2/798) = 3.3373813
whence,
(2)P = 2174.607 mm Hg = 2.86 atmospheres
(1) is so much greater than (2) that Revelations 21 8 indicates a temperature very considerably higher than 525C.
Thus, Hell is hotter than Heaven (which remains deucedly hot).
REFERENCES

1. "The light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days..." The light of the moon is negligible in comparison with that of the sun.

2. "...the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death".
3. A Mathematical Proof of the Non-Existence of Hell from the writings of the free-thinker Neiht, born in Brussels, 1877. "The area of the valley of Jehoshaphat is 60,000,000 sq. ms. ... Supposing that each race originated with one couple only, one has five couples or ten people, and applying to them the principle of compound interest, up to the Flood there were 9,289,000 births in 1,658 years. Since the Flood up to our epoch 2,326 years have passed, during which, if only five couples survived, they would have produced 2,213,867,610,000 children. If these calculations are extended up to the year 2000, the resulting number is 34,326,414,259,675,172,000 which, together with the 9,289,000, makes 34,326,414,259,684,461,000 offspring. If one concedes, charitably, that all papists are saved, their number today being 1/7th of the population of the earth, that of the damned would be made up of those born before the Flood plus those born since the Flood up to the year 2000 minus the 1/7th of those born since the year 44, that of the birth of Christ: this number is 4,903,773,008,164,544,000, and the total of damned would be 29,422,641,251,519,917,000.
"The mean cubic area between a new-born infant and an adult is about 1/20th metre; the bulk of the damned above is equal to the mass of a sphere of radius 705,504 metres; that of the earth is 6,366,200 metres.
"If one puts back the origin of man, following certain German naturalists, to 80,000 years, the number of damned would form a cube three times the size of the earth.
"Now, how does one assemble the 34,326,414,260 millions risen on a surface of 60,000,000 sq. metres to judge them and how does one sink this mass of damned, through all manner of rock, to a depth of 5,660,660 metres?"
[4] The valley of Jehoshaphat is the Gehenna of the Jews (Jehennam in the Koran)–the place of eternal torment. The word is derived from Gehinnom = the valley of Hinnom where sacrifices were offered to Moloch (2 Corinthians 33 6) (= Adremmelech–the God of Sepharvaim). In later times, all manner of refuse was dumped there and fires were constantly maintained to consume it. The sulfurous stench and the fire was the original of the Christian concept of Hell. (The estimate of Nieht of Gehenna's area 60 106 sq. m. is wrong, according to measurements taken on the spot by the Editors).
[5] e.g. Dzhugashvili, Losif and DeSalvo, Albert H.
[6] Curtis G. H. and Evemden, J. F. in Nuclear Clocks USAEC Pp 40-41.
[7] Leonardo da Pisa Liber Abaci 1202 (Out of print).
[8] Leviticus 18 6 et seq.
[9] Westfall, R. S. Newton and the Fudge Factor. Science 1973 751 -758. [10] "In my father's house are many mansions: If it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14 2. Also, "Those things which are impossible with men, are possible with God" - Luke 18 27, and "...with God all things are possible." Matthew 19 26.

Ghost In The 'Lac
07-27-2009, 07:39 AM
thats funny.
what a strange thing to say "the light will be 49x the light on earth" when trying to sell heaven as a good thing.

its so obviously fucking stupid, i cant believe it made it in. even just on the face of it, its clearly not suitable living conidtions, were they really that ignorant back then about what the Sun actually did/was?

Its clear that God didnt understand the relation between light and heat.

See:

"Sunlight heats a material such as water or a brick primarily because the long wavelength, or infrared, portion of the sun's radiation resonates well with molecules in the material, thereby setting them into motion. So the energy transfer that causes the temperature of the substance to rise takes place at the molecular rather than the electronic level."

or on the more detailed level of light to heat:

"Light from the sun excites electrons in the atoms which constitute the brick wall. How does that electronic energy get converted to heat, you ask. The key is 'radiationless transitions.' Here's how it works: the atoms of the brick are perpetually vibrating. Some of those atoms vibrate sufficiently vigorously that their vibrational energy is roughly equal to the electronic energy (photons) absorbed from the sun--in essence, they are in resonance with the solar energy. Those atoms then make a quantum transition from 'electronically excited' to 'vibrationally excited,' meaning that the energy causes the whole atom to move. We feel that motion as "heat." The atoms which make the jump to vibrational excitation soon collide into neighboring atoms, dissipating their vibrational energy throughout the entire brick, making the brick hot throughout.


So how the fuck does God not know about such things? Hes God, according to himself in the Bible he created everything.

THE W
07-27-2009, 03:34 PM
isaiah 30:26 isnt talking about heaven but about God desiring to deliver the people of zion from his wrath into a time of prosperity. if you read verses 24-25 of that chapter it talks about sending rain for the seed and about oxens and donkeys working the soil. no one is going to have to work any soil in heaven.

and even if it were heaven, having the sun shine bright doesnt mean people will burn to death. God can make the sun shine 50x brighter without overheating anything in the same way he set a bush on fire without burning it(exodus 3:1-4).

beautifulrock
07-27-2009, 06:08 PM
Living in spiritual and not physical form after you die, why would this matter....at all?

Art Vandelay
07-27-2009, 06:35 PM


well then why does the bible make it a point to talk about how hot hell is then?

V4D3R
07-27-2009, 07:49 PM
I think heaven and hell is just different levels of density/dimensions.

The physical form is different on each level, the lower you go the further you are away from perfection of self and you actually do degenerate when you sin, sex, gluttony, and spiritual decay must affect things on higher levels where they could possibly be in some physical form we cant imagine on this lower level.

HEAVEN
The higher you go in "knowing" knowledge of self and self-love acceptance that you have the power and are one with all - the more prepared the spiritual parts of yourself are for the next lifetime (reincarnation is involved in my theory). This has a lot to do with the chakras and meditative unity with the Source/Creator.

HELL
Not knowing the above and degenerating yourself on the many levels you can, make you not reach that and your soul knows it and u get mad depressed, feelings of being powerless and victimizing yourself.

What do people think?

beautifulrock
07-27-2009, 07:53 PM


well then why does the bible make it a point to talk about how hot hell is then?why does the bible say most of the stupid shit it does? Because it was rewritten perhaps?

spiggity_ace
07-28-2009, 05:40 AM
Wasn't the concept of hell invented after the original texts of the bible?

Face of the Golden Falcon
07-28-2009, 06:42 AM
^ "Hell" has been translated in english versions of the bible from the words Sheol Gehenna and Hades.

Sheol is Hebrew and simply refers to the grave, or death or the state of death. It has nothing to do with fire and brimstone and eternal punishment.

Gehenna refers to the fires of the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem where the filth of society as well as animals were cast out and burned. It was an actual physical place of the time.

Hades is pure Greek mythological nonsense.

SHEM HETEP

Inspectah_Dirk
07-28-2009, 11:47 AM
It's a nice find tho..calculating the temperatures in both heaven and hell.
But for real, i think it's a pure waste of time and effort to even start with stuff like that. To me it's more than obvious (won't go into that right now) that there can't be any heaven and/or hell. So why waste time thinking about stuff like this.
Although respect to the person who thought of this funny calculation.

Black Man
07-28-2009, 12:02 PM
^ "Hell" has been translated in english versions of the bible from the words Sheol Gehenna and Hades.

Sheol is Hebrew and simply refers to the grave, or death or the state of death. It has nothing to do with fire and brimstone and eternal punishment.

Gehenna refers to the fires of the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem where the filth of society as well as animals were cast out and burned. It was an actual physical place of the time.

Hades is pure Greek mythological nonsense.

SHEM HETEP

Peace.

It does have something to do with 'brimstone'

The place you mentioned is a place of 'brimstone' not metaphorically but actual brimstone. We don't call it brimstone in this day and time, we call it sulfur.

Peace.