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Crookshank
11-30-2009, 02:28 PM
Good and bad are ideas created by humans. If we never created these ideas, the world would probably be very different. Society has created these ideas, thanks to our obsession with labeling things, so we pretty much put everything into these categories. It's either good or bad.

I personally think that all humans are "bad" according to the normal society's view of "bad". We all have that instinct in us to survive... which means killing and/or hurting others. Therefore we are "bad" in society's eyes.


What do you think? (let's try to keep religion out of this as much as possible)

Mic Tyson
11-30-2009, 02:40 PM
i think just like you said, it was created by humans so everyone pretty much has different definitions of good and bad. like in war, u would probably think your country are the good guys and the people you are fighting are bad and vice versa.

Crookshank
11-30-2009, 02:43 PM
Exactly. A lot of people say that humans are "good" by nature, as society calls it, but how can this be true when things like morals and values, good manners, etc. were all created by humans?

LORD NOSE
11-30-2009, 04:23 PM
those things got pointed out and labelled by those who are foreign to that type of behavior

Uncle Steezo
11-30-2009, 05:31 PM
right^^

if you are used to destructive behavior then you wouldn't see anything wrong with it...and vice versa.



humans are naturally good because we have the ability to transcend destructive instincts.


survival does not hinge upon destruction.
destruction is the antithesis of survival.

ask anyone who has taken a life. they will tell you that a piece of them died at the same time. whether it was a crime, an accident, or war, or self defense.

and desensitization to murder or killing is a loss of humanity.

run-tel-dat.

beautifulrock
11-30-2009, 07:01 PM
there is good out there

Koolish
12-01-2009, 07:28 PM
basically, bad = harm, good = healing.

there are some things, no matter what culture you live in, that are still harmful, and that's a universal evil. and there's the universal goods too.

love is good, and hatred is evil. mainly because love helps you and those around you, and hatred destroys you and them both.

zooruka
12-01-2009, 07:59 PM
No humans are not good...yeah some humans don`t kill or steal...but most humans tell lies (even white lies which they think is a good thing hahahaha), look at porn, have sexually perverted thoughts, hurt other people (verbally or physically),dislike there fellow man and generally minipulate or do under handed things to get ahead in life.


hahaha lol @ humans inventing the concept of good and evil....all humans are sinners...and the concept of good and evil comes from God...I mean just look at the corner stone of western societies laws...they come from the 10 commandments, they where not invented by humans, and if you look at @ christianity the laws are even stricter in what constitutes good and bad !!!! for example Jesus said "If you even look at a women with sexual intent you have committed adultury" how many people have done that...even the so called good people in our societies...also jesus said love your enimies...nobody does that unless it was taught to us by GOD..the natural human reaction is to hate your enimies and love your friends...so how can human`s be good...

whether you like it or not good and evil can never be measured by human standards only by God`s standards...because human nature is flawed that is why the bible says in romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"


peace be with you !

Uncle Steezo
12-01-2009, 08:06 PM
so what you are saying is that God's greatest creation, humanity, is flawed?

Prof.Zoo, you blaspheme against the Lord our God.


everything you mentioned is sinful but that is base animalistic behavior. we as humans have a higher self that can dominate and subdue the animal self.

this is the true nature of man.

this is the inherent good of man.

zooruka
12-01-2009, 08:11 PM
so what you are saying is that God's greatest creation, humanity, is flawed?

Prof.Zoo, you blaspheme against the Lord our God.


Yes...


That is because in the garden we disobeyed God and forsaked his guiding wisdom to followed our own idea`s and listen to the devil.

Whether you like it or not religion is inextricable linked to good and evil... because this whole battle started in heaven...between the devil (evil) and God (good) and was passed down to humanity.


peace be with you !

zooruka
12-01-2009, 08:16 PM
everything you mentioned is sinful but that is base animalistic behavior. we as humans have a higher self that can dominate and subdue the animal self.

this is the true nature of man.

this is the inherent good of man.

Yes humans have the ability to transend there flawed human nature but it has to be taught to us how to do that !!!!, naturally we can never do that on our own...I mean you just have to look at western secular society and how liberal it has become..the only thing that is restraining it from being fully out of controlle is the moral`s of religious teaching from God..and we have that and its still in a state of decay so how can humans be naturally good because these people (secular society who run most things) don`t listen to God and look at what they do...its evil... and if humans where naturally good, secular society wouldn`t be the way it is!!!!!.... honestly I dread to imagine a world if God`s laws wasn`t there.

God gave us free will and allows evil to occur to show us that we can do nothing with out him and ultimately need his wisdom and guidance.


peace be with you !

PALEHORSE
12-01-2009, 08:19 PM
the "bad" is also what makes the "good" be played

Black Man
12-01-2009, 08:24 PM
Good and bad are ideas created by humans. If we never created these ideas, the world would probably be very different. Society has created these ideas, thanks to our obsession with labeling things, so we pretty much put everything into these categories. It's either good or bad.

I personally think that all humans are "bad" according to the normal society's view of "bad". We all have that instinct in us to survive... which means killing and/or hurting others. Therefore we are "bad" in society's eyes.


What do you think? (let's try to keep religion out of this as much as possible)

Good and bad are words used to communicate and describe a certain function.

Before the word existed to describe what's good or bad, the actions had already existed. After observing the act the words good and bad were created to describe these functions.

If society created these ideas, created the idea of what's good and bad, which society was it that created these ideas?

Face of the Golden Falcon
12-01-2009, 09:59 PM
and the concept of good and evil comes from God

So if this God of yours had never invented the concept of evil then things would be all good, right? So we have your God to blame for the bulls**t in the world. Whats more, it seems your Gods true nature is evil as well, other wise why would he invent such a concept as evil?

...I mean just look at the corner stone of western societies laws...they come from the 10 commandments, they where not invented by humans,

lol..I've read this before from you. Take a look at western society. It's a rotting cesspool of destruction and devilishness...and it's corner stone is... (wait for it)... the 10 commandments! lol...the proof is in the pudding I guess.

SHEM HETEP

zooruka
12-02-2009, 12:35 AM
So if this God of yours had never invented the concept of evil then things would be all good, right? So we have your God to blame for the bulls**t in the world. Whats more, it seems your Gods true nature is evil as well, other wise why would he invent such a concept as evil?

There is no such thing as a created evil...evil in definition is "the absance of good" ...see when God made us and the angels, he gave us free will... the option of choosing good !!! instead of making us mindless robots, who serve him and do whats right, because thats all we can do!!!..See its when these creatures (human or angel) choose of there own free will, to reject God and goodness, that evil exists, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

an example would be...darkness ...darkness doesn`t exist as it`s own entity.... all darkness is, is the absance of light....same with evil...evil is just the absance of good.





lol..I've read this before from you. Take a look at western society. It's a rotting cesspool of destruction and devilishness...and it's corner stone is... (wait for it)... the 10 commandments! lol...the proof is in the pudding I guess.

SHEM HETEP


yes society is not good, but there are some good aspects to it such as justice.... but where does the justice that exist come from ???? THE LAW !!! and that derives from the 10 commandments... and with out this justice, the world would be worse....and this relates back to the thread topic question of if we are good or bad...and some people are saying we are naturally good...but like you said the world is a cesspool and that is because of the people who refuse to follow God (proving that without God`s laws, humans are naturally bad)..So you can sit there and try to brand the 10 commandments as nothing more than retoric and try to relate that to the state the world is in....but without the 10 commandments as I pointed out already the world would be far worse...because human`s are flawed and are not good.


peace be with you !

Face of the Golden Falcon
12-02-2009, 04:11 AM
There is no such thing as a created evil...evil in definition is "the absance of good" ...see when God made us and the angels, he gave us free will... the option of choosing good !!! instead of making us mindless robots, who serve him and do whats right, because thats all we can do!!!..See its when these creatures (human or angel) choose of there own free will, to reject God and goodness, that evil exists, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

an example would be...darkness ...darkness doesn`t exist as it`s own entity.... all darkness is, is the absance of light....same with evil...evil is just the absance of good.








yes society is not good, but there are some good aspects to it such as justice.... but where does the justice that exist come from ???? THE LAW !!! and that derives from the 10 commandments... and with out this justice, the world would be worse....and this relates back to the thread topic question of if we are good or bad...and some people are saying we are naturally good...but like you said the world is a cesspool and that is because of the people who refuse to follow God (proving that without God`s laws, humans are naturally bad)..So you can sit there and try to brand the 10 commandments as nothing more than retoric and try to relate that to the state the world is in....but without the 10 commandments as I pointed out already the world would be far worse...because human`s are flawed and are not good.


peace be with you !

So we have free will? Which means by definition of "free will" that we are a clean slate. We cannot be, by nature, evil because that would mean that we would be without the freedom to choose because our "nature" would be "choosing" for us.

Man is neither good nor bad. Man is. We have the free will to choose between right (harmony with the Law, and no I don't mean the 10 commandments) and wrong (opposed to the Law).

SHEM HETEP

Koolish
12-02-2009, 06:50 PM
our nature is evil in that the natural desires everyone experiences are usually considered sins. when you stop sinning, your life improves (this is what every born again is trying to tell everyone).

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

something to think about.

zooruka
12-02-2009, 07:08 PM
So we have free will? Which means by definition of "free will" that we are a clean slate. We cannot be, by nature, evil because that would mean that we would be without the freedom to choose because our "nature" would be "choosing" for us.

Man is neither good nor bad. Man is. We have the free will to choose between right (harmony with the Law, and no I don't mean the 10 commandments) and wrong (opposed to the Law).

SHEM HETEP


yes we where born with free will...but when eve believed the snake (the devil) and ate from the tree with adam, we became fallen in nature due to that sin, but we still have free will to choose whether we give in to this fallen nature or fight against it and obey God`s law.

See nothing really changed free will (even before we fell in the garden) was a choice to choose good or not...but after the fall man became a sinner (evil in nature) and now free will is used to choose whether to remain sinful or we don`t....but to do that God had to present us with an alternative so we could use our free will to choose right from wrong and that was done in his laws...other wise man would just remain in his sinful and evil state because that is his natural ways now, because of his fallen nature that occured in the garden of eden.


peace be with you !

shamanpanda
12-06-2009, 02:56 PM
When you ask if we are good of bad, you are not asking a complete question.
What needs to be determined is what we are "good" or "bad" for.
In order to find the answer to any question, you have to ask the right question.
In order to be able to ask the right question, you must first understand what answer the question is asking, so to speak.

Once you are able to understand the question, you will find your answer.

Frank Sobotka
12-06-2009, 03:13 PM
Nobody has the exact same rules for good & bad so there isn't really a good or bad.

According to the bible, we're all evil.

What I consider to be a good thing others could consider bad.

Visionz
12-07-2009, 01:20 AM
Actions are a reflection of who you are. If you're a lying, small-minded hypocrite no doubt the actions will reflect that. Same if you're generous, kind and understanding. Or whatever else that can be conjured up by both human nature and human spirit, we'll find a word to describe our tendencies. Good and bad are just labels but there seems to be a tendency to label what is born out of our nature to label as bad and what is born out of spirit to be labeled as good. You're born with your nature (eat, shit, sleep-repeat) but the spirit must be cultivated if its to be achieved at all.


As an example, ruka points out porn as being "bad" but lust itself is a natural thing. The desire to procreate is inherent in all living things and lust is born out of that. This will drive some to chase as much ass as you can possibly get your hands on all over town. (whether babies happen or not-the need to spread seed is still driving it) This kind of behavior might hinder finding a women that's truly the marrying type. In marriage (or long term relationships ) there is a deep bond and understanding on such subtle levels that chasing skirt will never be able to achieve. I contend that these things are neither good or bad, they're just different with one coming easier than the other. Either way, in the end its a reflection of who you are and where you're at in life.

Duco
12-07-2009, 08:33 AM
yes society is not good, but there are some good aspects to it such as justice.... but where does the justice that exist come from ???? THE LAW !!! and that derives from the 10 commandments... and with out this justice, the world would be worse....and this relates back to the thread topic question of if we are good or bad...and some people are saying we are naturally good...but like you said the world is a cesspool and that is because of the people who refuse to follow God (proving that without God`s laws, humans are naturally bad)..So you can sit there and try to brand the 10 commandments as nothing more than retoric and try to relate that to the state the world is in....but without the 10 commandments as I pointed out already the world would be far worse...because human`s are flawed and are not good.

The basic moral precepts of the 10 Commandments existed long before Christianity.

SID
12-07-2009, 11:11 AM
Without good and bad the world would be in chaos.

Paedos would be mixing with kids, rapists with women, we need the defining line.

Longbongcilvaringz
12-07-2009, 12:28 PM
Would it be chaos?

The animal kingdom is bereft of morals, yet it functions perfectly.

Humanity has fabricated moral ideology, and is an disaster.

SID
12-07-2009, 01:14 PM
Animals are animals.

We are intelligent beings who some would agree possess a spirit, that being said we cannot live like animals because we are not animals, we have a consciousness and it is that that drives us, not carnal instincts.

Koolish
12-07-2009, 06:16 PM
Would it be chaos?

The animal kingdom is bereft of morals, yet it functions perfectly.

Humanity has fabricated moral ideology, and is an disaster.

animals can't become bored, and even though the kingdom works, it's pretty brutal and painful.

we're always striving for utopia, but there's always those few people who want to deliberately fuck things up to feel better about themselves.

Frank Sobotka
12-07-2009, 06:18 PM
animals can't become bored, and even though the kingdom works, it's pretty brutal and painful.

we're always striving for utopia, but there's always those few people who want to deliberately fuck things up to feel better about themselves.Everybody would 'deliberately fuck things up'