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Visionz
12-07-2009, 12:38 AM
The world as it now stands is dominated by human nature (aka base-level instincts) We all know what that world looks like but what will the world dominated by the human spirit look like? Is this an inevitalbility or something that will never happen?

The duality between the two is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I'm interested in your own take on it. What does the human spirit mean to you?

Longbongcilvaringz
12-07-2009, 11:15 AM
But it's difficult to distinguish between the two.

An argument could be made for the human spirit simply being a product of human nature.

While the human spirit can be identified, what's to say that it is not just a facility to further human nature.

If you know what i mean.

Ghost In The 'Lac
12-07-2009, 11:27 AM
1 species doesnt dominate the world, Gaia controls all things and all things are linked at all times. The human species has removed it self from the corridors of natural selection through science and medicine. We are differnet from other speices in that since probably agriculture was invented, we have become epigenetic, i.e no longer rely on genes but culture to shape out species.

On topic, with the advent of agriculture man was forced to remove itself from nature and shamanistic spiritual determined paths, because the advent of agriculture bought the possibly of over-production -->> which leads to excess wealth hoarding and trade --->>> trade leads to cities ---->>> cities lead to enclosures and barriers to isolate humans from their natural world and their symbyotic relationship with it.

So essententially what im saying is that the human "spirit" is no longer present, and can only be attained by re connecting with nature (that sounds corny and cliche but its true) in a way we havent done in arond 20,000 years.

The advent of Agriculture also effectivly ended human kinds long association with Psilocybin and other hallucinogens because the workers would have to be up early in the morning to work lol.

ballistic
12-08-2009, 12:11 PM
^i was just reading this article in the latest National Geographic issue about one of the last existing hunting/gathering cultures in the world, the Hadzu people of Tanzania...there's a quote from this university professor in there saying that our switch to agriculture was the biggest mistake in human history, one that we're still attempting to recover from.

Visionz, it blows my mind that you made this thread...i was just writing about this foundational duality within human experience yesterday. it's something that bugs me a lot, actually. as human beings we are forced to constantly navigate two separate, seemingly opposing parts of the psyche throughout life. it seems as though our lives are fraught with irreconcilable conflicts. we're constantly searching for some kind of wholeness, similar to what Carl Jung talks about.
how do we find a balance? how do we establish a solid, unassailable identity in the face of these apparent paradoxes? Lacey I think you got it when you say there shouldn't be any differentiation between the two modes, the two selves, it's all interconnected. yet it's hard not to see things as fragmented sometimes.
physicality is a chore to the spirit, sometimes it's hard not to see ourselves as simply dense matter, raw flesh and bone, especially as we're forced to repeat the cycle of subsistence every day. our physical nature is reinforced again and again, whereas the average man only gets fleeting, intangible glimpses of his spiritual aspect. for the seeker spiritual realization can be difficult because he is distracted by his own physicality, or perhaps something deep within him denies the concept of the cohabitation between spirit and matter, of the possibility of polar opposites resting together, the lion and the lamb...
this is a western discontent, however. it appears as though the east has contented itself with a more holistic understanding as well as an acceptance of the foundational dualities. it is the western man who gets caught up in the conceptual labyrinthes of "either/or". realizing that everything correlates perfectly is the key to happiness...

Uncle Steezo
12-08-2009, 07:38 PM
ballistic, the battle you mentioned is that of heru and set. its a metaphor for the struggle to overcome our animal selves.

we have a higher self (spirit)and a lower self(nature).
it should be the goal of every human to subdue his lower self.

whenever you do things like use your "moral compass" to refrain from indulging in unhealthy behavior, you are operating on a higher plane.

when you do shit like beat your dick, or pig out on junk food you are on a lower plane.

it goes deeper but thats the premise. the east has developed a path to ascend above the lower self .

there is no real need for human nature once you have ascended. human nature is like training wheels for life.
"just in case you forget to eat...here get hungry"
"just in case you don't know the importance of mating...here get horny"

one who has elevated is beyond the need for these healthy reminders.
the problem arises when someone is ruled by nature alone.

ballistic
12-08-2009, 09:03 PM
yeah it's all about the laws of balance, the yin & yang equilibrium...it's a hard concept to digest when you've been given monolithic conceptual frameworks that are not flexible enough to account for the fluidities of the universe, though. culture is definitely an operating system. binaries should not be seen as 'either/or', but as 'both/and'. everything is in conjunction with one another. but if we can agree that everything exists to maintain a certain balance, what is it that the physical human race is balancing out simply via its presence? how do we contribute, exactly?

another thought on the foundational duality of the human being, with special regards to the higher nature/lower nature concept:
in the Alex Coller lecture that has been circulating through a couple of threads on the board here recently he says that he was told that humans are the product of a genetic experiment in which earth primates were mated with particular extraterrestrials. think about that, because the possible veracity of this idea enables a whole new world of dualities to be observed. are humans, as entities, consisted of at once the lowliness of the animal and the spiritual acuity of an advanced being? makes sense.
just throwing it out there...

Visionz
12-08-2009, 11:17 PM
the dialog in this thread is on point. I haven't contributed since the original post just cause I wanted like to see some outlooks outisde of my own thoughts. Makes for a great read.

I think (or at least hope) that as the human collective moves towards realizing (remembering perhaps?) and actualizing our spirit that we'll move forward with ideas more and more about what's good for the whole of humanity vs seeing us as this group divided, fragmented and marginalized.

separation on all levels is an illusion.

zooruka
12-08-2009, 11:41 PM
I don`t see how you came to your conclusion...yes you are right that the world is governed by human nature but it is also governed by human spirit aswell...everybody bases most decisions on there spirit, so the world is made up of human spirit...I mean take love.... the feelings and actions associated with love are primarily driven by the spirit of a person,.... also religion...peoples love of God and there zeal in coming to God is driven by there spirit, that is why humans (christians to be exact) are able to transend there human nature and come to want to love and accept God...because if it wasn`t for the human spirit, man would stay away from God, because man`s nature is fallen and ultimatly rejects God.

So regardless of religion or not people do live in the spirit and the world is shaped by it to some degree because it`s a major factor in peoples decision making and happyness....


peace be with you

TheBoarzHeadBoy
12-09-2009, 10:01 AM
Man is away from God. There's no other way to explain it. The godliness of man is greatly diminished. I doubt Christianity is effective any more. When it was still a Mystery religion it had power but the Christians sold out their metaphysical power for political power. Gnosticism was a revival but it failed to spread. Christianity can make you a good person but it no longer cultivates the divine spirit within you. Without that what does it really matter?

Visionz
12-09-2009, 11:58 AM
I don`t see how you came to your conclusion...yes you are right that the world is governed by human nature but it is also governed by human spirit aswell...everybody bases most decisions on there spirit, so the world is made up of human spirit...I mean take love.... the feelings and actions associated with love are primarily driven by the spirit of a person,.... also religion...peoples love of God and there zeal in coming to God is driven by there spirit, that is why humans (christians to be exact) are able to transend there human nature and come to want to love and accept God...because if it wasn`t for the human spirit, man would stay away from God, because man`s nature is fallen and ultimatly rejects God.

So regardless of religion or not people do live in the spirit and the world is shaped by it to some degree because it`s a major factor in peoples decision making and happyness....


peace be with you

its amazing how full of shit you are and how little you realize it. In the end your motivations for belief are selfish and you sense of superiority false. Christianity does not have a monopoly on spiritual evolution nor alignment with the divine. God knows it even if your ignorant ass doesn't.

Olive Oil Goombah
12-09-2009, 12:38 PM
visionz get ur ass in the sportzone so i can break down why Alabama is going to beat Texas.

WARPATH
12-09-2009, 01:05 PM
its amazing how full of shit you are and how little you realize it. In the end your motivations for belief are selfish and you sense of superiority false. Christianity does not have a monopoly on spiritual evolution nor alignment with the divine. God knows it even if your ignorant ass doesn't.

Separation on all levels is an illusion.

Read that somewhere....

Visionz
12-09-2009, 06:22 PM
Separation on all levels is an illusion.

Read that somewhere....

:lmao: touche'

Koolish
12-09-2009, 06:36 PM
one of the main questions is of the mind. is the mind it's own thing, or is it nothing but the brain?

is there any part of us that we can say is not strictly a part of the physical realm?

it makes sense to think that the world is actually empty, and there is no importance beyond what we give something. but those are lies, disguised as intelligence.

thought is extremely important, we're the only beings with language here, and we cultivate it inside of our minds. think negative thoughts, and you're going to affect people around you. to me, that says there's more than just the physical.

ballistic
12-10-2009, 01:11 PM
very good point. i'm reading this book called Infinite Mind by Valerie Hunt and she talks about how science is slowly coming to the realization that the mind is not enwrapped in the physical brain, rather the brain is kind of like the physical CPU for the mind...the centers of consciousness lie not within our body but within the human energy body, so to speak. she pictures the mind as an unlimited field constantly interacting with other fields around it...

LORD NOSE
12-10-2009, 01:54 PM
thought travels


what is the vehicle ?

ballistic
12-12-2009, 07:19 PM
seems like thoughts are units of energy. if the mind is an infinite field then thoughts are equivalent to electricity shooting through a superconductor...

Uncle Steezo
12-13-2009, 02:48 PM
thought travels


what is the vehicle ?
the transmophic field aka the Matrix aka the universal conciousness.

seems like thoughts are units of energy. if the mind is an infinite field then thoughts are equivalent to electricity shooting through a superconductor...
IMO thoughts are waves which we can collapse into particles or units of energy(see photons) when you grab them out of the matrix and process them using your mind/body/brain

more like an electron in its energy shell. thought exists in all places at once.