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ALCATRAZ
12-26-2009, 05:04 PM
like i know monks can raise their temperature and drop metabolism like nobodies business ... but is there anything other than that? maybe some shamans who practice mysticism that has been proven to work or other monks doing crazy shit ... i want duh knowledge

ALCATRAZ
12-26-2009, 05:12 PM
sunny? palehorse?

Frank Sobotka
12-26-2009, 08:35 PM
Appearantly religious people can handle more pain when shown images of the virgin mary.

the silencer
12-26-2009, 10:20 PM
what do you mean by "true experiences"?

there's been many true mystics throughout history and (this what's most amazing about the whole topic) their writings are all describing the same thing pretty much...essentially, a transcendence of time and space and a feeling of infinity..An inflation past one's individual self to a oneness with the whole universe


I've mentioned this book before but "Cosmic Consciousness" by Richard Maurice Bucke is essentially a look at all the mystics throughout history, their lives, experiences, and writings...SICK book which thoroughly (but not boringly or lengthily) describes levels of consciousness from simple to cosmic..

ALCATRAZ
12-26-2009, 10:23 PM
nice, thanks ... i'll definitely cop

PALEHORSE
12-26-2009, 10:37 PM
Look up the Jansenist Miracles

and dont just read the first article you find.

look into it

I first learned about it in a book called "the holographic universe" by micheal talbot,

food for thought
12-27-2009, 02:15 PM
I first learned about it in a book called "the holographic universe" by micheal talbot,

my brother owns that book

i never got around to reading it though.

Uncle Steezo
12-31-2009, 01:04 PM
self hypnosis.
in my 1st session i was taught pain management.
basically a visualization of numbing my hand in a bucket of icewater.
i was asked to pinch my hand. i couldn't feel it. the other hand i could.
then transfer that numbness to where i felt pain by touching it with the numb hand.

then i was taught to do this on my own.

the mind is a powerful thing.

SID
12-31-2009, 03:48 PM
like i know monks can raise their temperature and drop metabolism like nobodies business ... but is there anything other than that? maybe some shamans who practice mysticism that has been proven to work or other monks doing crazy shit ... i want duh knowledge

I made a thread while back about Sufi Mysticism, you should check it out.

Mysticism goes beyond the plane of conceived reality, there have been many documented accounts over the years of extreme feats of psychical endurance, but where the true power of mysticism lies is the peeling back of the layers of reality, just like a onion.

Forget researching about other peoples experiences you have got to do it for yourself.


*POWERFUL INFORMATION ALERT*
Search the document "Liber Null" and purchase some mushrooms or tabs or whatever and perform the rituals you read then call me in the morning....

Uncle Steezo
12-31-2009, 10:22 PM
so after reading liber null & psychonaut...
the magic described within, i think would be most effective when clear and sober.
there is some powerful stuff in there that would pose a dangerous threat to the uninitiated.

its kinda irresponsible to recommend for someone to trip and do these magical rituals uniformed and unaware. unless you don't take the shit seriously and are just having fun. then by all means get your harry potter wand and have a ball.



you read the book of enoch?

SID
01-01-2010, 08:34 AM
I read that shit tripping with my friends in a field for your information.

We performed certain rituals.

Alcatraz has taken psychedelic before so he should be OK with the effects.

Liber Null is based on pyschonautics so the trips are obviously custom made to be used under the influence of entheogens/sacred sacrements.

Like i said before psychedelics are TOOLS not the answer not even the key, just TOOLS.

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 12:18 PM
thats not what i mean. well partially...
but the gist of my statement is that magic is not for everyon and more specifically not for those who know very little about unseen forces.

you know as well as i do that you can let genies out of their bottles.
or worse, open doors you don't know how to close.

especially since you are dealing with a sect that has Alister Crowley as a founding father. some dark forces surround this form of magic. you are not aware, you can end up getting hurt.

thats why i said do it sober FIRST. replace the drugs with meditation and breathing.

work your way up to chemically altered consciousness.

if you gotta use something, take a couple of shots of some whiskey to loosen the mind a lil bit.

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 12:26 PM
Liber Null is based on pyschonautics so the trips are obviously custom made to be used under the influence of entheogens/sacred sacrements.

this is not completely true.
chemically altered states are just PART of the psychonautic field of study.

you have dreams, meditation, fasting, dancing, sound/light...

all ways that separate the mind from body in order to study the mind from new perspectives, which is the definition of psychonautics (exploring the mind)


drugs are the popular way cause lets face it, people are lazy and like to get high.

SID
01-01-2010, 01:11 PM
Lots of people class Crowley as "dark" i wouldn't say that, he represented humanity in its rawest and truthfullist with no candy coated love or fake shit, he straight up built this theories and rituals on natrual human interaction and nature minus the psuedo science.

I understand you saying having a head full of acid then summoning these energies would be too much for must people, your right about that, you either don't do it or go all the way.

There's no half-heartedness when approaching such delicate life changing rituals.

Perform magick that has been pescribed to the sober, Liber Null is for the pyschonauts.

If Alca can't handle it so be it, there's other ways, namely sufi mysticism.

SID
01-01-2010, 01:12 PM
this is not completely true.
chemically altered states are just PART of the psychonautic field of study.

you have dreams, meditation, fasting, dancing, sound/light...

all ways that separate the mind from body in order to study the mind from new perspectives, which is the definition of psychonautics (exploring the mind)


drugs are the popular way cause lets face it, people are lazy and like to get high.

Read the book then tell me it wasen't made to be performed by the learned entheogen user...

food for thought
01-01-2010, 01:43 PM
like i know monks can raise their temperature and drop metabolism like nobodies business ... but is there anything other than that? maybe some shamans who practice mysticism that has been proven to work or other monks doing crazy shit ... i want duh knowledge

every person in the world is capable of having a mystical experience. you just have to learn to control your mind and tune things in and out as u wish.


you can sit somehwere or lay down, meditate and have a mystical experience whenever u want to.

etheogens can help a person do this under certain circumstances, speeds up the process and makes it easier




maybe some shamans who practice mysticism that has been proven to work or other monks doing crazy shit


what do u mean proven to work? by who?

many researchers have spent time with shamans and have wrote books about them

but for the most part the government dismisses shamans and the said power of mysticism, spirituality etc

they just call them "crazy"

but u shouldnt go to the government looking for answers on whats real and not anyway

shamans have been doing what they do for centuries

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 01:49 PM
Lots of people class Crowley as "dark" i wouldn't say that, he represented humanity in its rawest and truthfullist with no candy coated love or fake shit, he straight up built this theories and rituals on natrual human interaction and nature minus the psuedo science.

I understand you saying having a head full of acid then summoning these energies would be too much for must people, your right about that, you either don't do it or go all the way.

There's no half-heartedness when approaching such delicate life changing rituals.

Perform magick that has been pescribed to the sober, Liber Null is for the pyschonauts.

If Alca can't handle it so be it, there's other ways, namely sufi mysticism.

crowley died alone, a drug addict, and probably insane as well.
much of his early work is valuable but as he continued to get "raw" he ended up stripping himself of the humanity he sought to find.

i strongly disagree about the psuedo science statement. if you accept one side of metaphysics, which as a whole is labeled as pseudo, then i don't see how you can put other aspects into that box.

love is the strongest human emotion. any philospohy or mysticism that does not involve love is missing the biggest piece of the puzzle.

even the liber null, which i read yesterday, tells you that laughter(joy/happiness), is the most powerful tool to evoke energy.
joy is a subset of love.

we all know what that implies.

darkness can be alluring because it is easily identified and in abundance in this world... but on the other hand love's rarity makes it that much more powerful and valuable.

yin/yang-imbalance is inferior to the balanced.

dark magick has to balanced with white magick.

Crowley was imbalanced and it destroyed him in the end.

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 02:02 PM
psychonautics is simply the exploration of the mind, just like astronautics is the exploration of space.

there is no psychedelic requirements needed to study the psyche.
not to discount the positives of psychedelia.
but you are mistaken if you think that chemically altered states are a prerequisite.

there also is whats called "initiation", which is a learning curve of study and practice.
you can't just go hard from day one.
many uninitiated feel that they can pick up a book, trip out, and open the secrets of the universe. 99% of them will: end up with zero results or hurt themselves.

its like handing a 5yo child a technical schematic of a gun and a fully loaded glock 9mm on safety. with the safety on, nothing happens, if he figures out how to take the safety off, he will get hurt or hurt someone else.

SID
01-01-2010, 02:05 PM
crowley died alone, a drug addict, and probably insane as well.
much of his early work is valuable but as he continued to get "raw" he ended up stripping himself of the humanity he sought to find.

i strongly disagree about the psuedo science statement. if you accept one side of metaphysics, which as a whole is labeled as pseudo, then i don't see how you can put other aspects into that box.

love is the strongest human emotion. any philospohy or mysticism that does not involve love is missing the biggest piece of the puzzle.

even the liber null, which i read yesterday, tells you that laughter(joy/happiness), is the most powerful tool to evoke energy.
joy is a subset of love.

we all know what that implies.

darkness can be alluring because it is easily identified and in abundance in this world... but on the other hand love's rarity makes it that much more powerful and valuable.

yin/yang-imbalance is inferior to the balanced.

dark magick has to balanced with white magick.

Crowley was imbalanced and it destroyed him in the end.

We all die alone, it's only what we have in our hearts and minds that dies with us.

Pseudo science is melding scientific factual knowledge with personal unsubstantiated beliefs, metaphysics is a school of philosophy attempting to explain the unexplainable, i think there seperate.

I haven't got anything against love, as humans we need it and crave it, in the context of crowleys work, when i say he diden't have the candy coated love aspect i mean he diden't try and add fantastic visions of life and existence to get your dick hard, he just established who we are by our psychology and general human nature (not very pretty. but the truth nontheless), he built spiritually from there.

I agree with what you said about darkness i said the exact same thing to my best friend after we tripped for the first time, darkness is an abdundant force all of the time, but under a chemically altered mindstate you become that much more sensitive to its presence, its a battle for the mind.

I'm all about balance, in everything.

Love-hate. good-bad. black-white.

That's what makes me content.

SID
01-01-2010, 02:12 PM
psychonautics is simply the exploration of the mind, just like astronautics is the exploration of space.

there is no psychedelic requirements needed to study the psyche.
not to discount the positives of psychedelia.
but you are mistaken if you think that chemically altered states are a prerequisite.

there also is whats called "initiation", which is a learning curve of study and practice.
you can't just go hard from day one.
many uninitiated feel that they can pick up a book, trip out, and open the secrets of the universe. 99% will end up with zero results or hurt themselves.

its like handing a 5yo child a technical schematic of a gun and a fully loaded glock 9mm on safety. with the safety on, nothing happens, if he figures out how to take the safety off, he will get hurt or hurt someone else.

Yeah i know what psychonautics is dude, i'm not saying pyschdelics are the only part of surfing the mind, but they are necessary to switch to certain brainwaves you would otherwise have no access to.

It allows you to delve into your subconscious and stimulates various parts of your brain that are usually dormant, pyschadelics and pyschonautics go hand in hand.

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 02:30 PM
some of the stuff you posted is biased and opinionated but we all have biases and opinions. ex: metaphysics is unexplainable, when actually its unseen, because we can explain that music and colors affect emotion. but the mechanics of that phenom are in the realm of the unseen.

but to say that unsubstantiated(lacks empirical evidence) is not the same thing as unexplainable(lacks empiracle evidence) is a game of semantics

anyway.

THE LIBER NULL DOESN'T TELL YOU TO USE PSYCHEDELICS.
in fact Chaos Magick, is practiced in the gnostic inhibitory and gnostic excitatory states.
these states are achieved through:
inhibit-fasting, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, and hypnosis
excite-sex, pain, dance, drumming, chanting, sensory overload.

all preceding drugs.

drugs are like a shortcut. a dark tunnel that doesn't allow you to experience the journey that leads you to that "zone".

drugs are good for breaking the wall, and seeing where you want to go and giving you a baseline. so that when you use the natural techniques you know when you are "there".

but in and of themselves, drugs are bad mmmmmkay.

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 02:31 PM
oh yeah, you only die alone when you are lonely.
you aren't born alone either.

no man is an island.
we are all connected.

SID
01-01-2010, 02:58 PM
some of the stuff you posted is biased and opinionated but we all have biases and opinions. ex: metaphysics is unexplainable, when actually its unseen, because we can explain that music and colors affect emotion. but the mechanics of that phenom are in the realm of the unseen.

but to say that unsubstantiated(lacks empirical evidence) is not the same thing as unexplainable(lacks empiracle evidence) is a game of semantics

anyway.

THE LIBER NULL DOESN'T TELL YOU TO USE PSYCHEDELICS.
in fact Chaos Magick, is practiced in the gnostic inhibitory and gnostic excitatory states.
these states are achieved through:
inhibit-fasting, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, and hypnosis
excite-sex, pain, dance, drumming, chanting, sensory overload.

all preceding drugs.

drugs are like a shortcut. a dark tunnel that doesn't allow you to experience the journey that leads you to that "zone".

drugs are good for breaking the wall, and seeing where you want to go and giving you a baseline. so that when you use the natural techniques you know when you are "there".

but in and of themselves, drugs are bad mmmmmkay.

Dude your acting like i am not the one who pointed out Liber null to you, stop trying to teach me shit i already know.

Your metaphors and analogys are wonderful but they don't hold no weight in this plane of reality.

unsubstantiated and unexpalinable are two different words for a reason.

unsubstantiated means its yet to be empiricaly verified, unexplainable is unexplainable that's what metaphysics is, the art of trying to explain the unexplainable.

SID
01-01-2010, 03:00 PM
oh yeah, you only die alone when you are lonely.
you aren't born alone either.

no man is an island.
we are all connected.

Again lovely metaphors, but the fact is know one dies with us, except in hollywood romantic movies.

This ain't a movie.

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 05:57 PM
you are taking this personally.
this is only a discussion of concepts.
obviously some of the concepts struck a different chord with me than with you.
thats a good thing.
a song with one note is inferior to one with a spectrum of tones.


relax.


one of the tenets of chaos magick is rejecting and adopting new paradigms.
you should try it.

relax.

just because you were 1st to encounter some information does not make you the authority on it. nor does that mean you have a solid grasp on it.
learning is a constant process.


relax.


personally...


personally i don't think you have complete understanding of it.
personally i think you found ONE ASPECT of it and latched on to it.
personally i think you feel that i'm stealing your thunder when the reality is i'm reaching out to you so we can both increase our understanding.


relax.


sid you are safe in KTL.

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 06:04 PM
metaphysics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics)- this should help you get a better understanding of metaphysics.

metaphysics as defined by webster's- a : a division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being, and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology

b : abstract philosophical studies : a study of what is outside objective experience
Metaphysics investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science.

SID
01-01-2010, 07:22 PM
you are taking this personally.
this is only a discussion of concepts.
obviously some of the concepts struck a different chord with me than with you.
thats a good thing.
a song with one note is inferior to one with a spectrum of tones.


relax.


one of the tenets of chaos magick is rejecting and adopting new paradigms.
you should try it.

relax.

just because you were 1st to encounter some information does not make you the authority on it. nor does that mean you have a solid grasp on it.
learning is a constant process.


relax.


personally...


personally i don't think you have complete understanding of it.
personally i think you found ONE ASPECT of it and latched on to it.
personally i think you feel that i'm stealing your thunder when the reality is i'm reaching out to you so we can both increase our understanding.


relax.


sid you are safe in KTL.

Dude i wasn't taking anything personally.

Your father/shaman/teacher tone annoys me though.

You need to get on the humble and stop acting like you know the innerworkings of the universe, you belittle people and talk down to them, i don't know if that's intended but you come across like that.

The Prophet of Islam once said that as a baby for the first three months of our life we recall life in the womb and for those three months we know the secrets of the universe.

Your not a three month old baby.


http://i46.tinypic.com/fyfo0j.jpg

Safe in KTL?

* summons snow leopard and drinks tea with it aahaahahahahaha

Uncle Steezo
01-01-2010, 10:12 PM
your issues with me sound personal.
possibly having something to do with your own father and figures of authority.

and please excuse me if my tone is not to your liking but there is only so much accommodation i'm willing to offer you. considering your actions concerning my son.
think about it.
porn+my son=funny to you.


as i see it, my posts have been ego-free. i just presented information that was contrary to yours.


if you feel like i'm talking down to you its probably something inside that makes you feel inferior.

if you feel like i sound like a shaman, it could be because subconsciously you respect the knowledge and insight i bring to the table... yet disrespect the container it comes in.
this conflict makes it hard for you communicate with me without either feeling annoyed or looked down upon.

we are not the same age, we don't have the same level of understanding, we have differing amounts of life experiences.
i don't have all the answers. i'm on the path just like you.

imagine yourself having this convo with a 12 year old and see how your tone changes.



it is what it is sid. there are other forums, other threads, other activities to engage in, besides ones that involve me. but you don't really want to do that.