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LORD NOSE
01-04-2010, 05:45 PM
ask questions - be respectful








why do you believe that Islam is evil ?

zooruka
01-04-2010, 06:49 PM
why do you believe that Islam is evil ?

Yes...

Islam is evil because of many reason`s..firstly the number one reason it is evil is because it`s fundemental claim, that Jesus was not crucified..this goes to the heart of the bible message and the plan of God in the bible specifically the new testement... See God wanted Jesus to die according to the bible so that mankind can be saved and be forgiven of there sins,and win a victory over the devil... and islam seeks to deny this fact, therefore trying to rob humanity of it`s salvation and denying God of his victory over the forces of darkness...but if you don`t believe that lets see what Jesus had to say about the idea of him not dying on the cross...


From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You."But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."




So you see peter said the same thing to Jesus and he immediatly said Get behind me satan...So Jesus knew straight away that saying he shouldn`t die on the cross, was the work of satan...and this is true of the koran...(just on a side note Jesus wasn`t calling peter satan he was addressing the satanic influnce in peters assertion.)



The second reason...is they claim that Jesus isn`t divine, but just a man...(which is fundementally opposed to the message of the bible about who Jesus is..and for all those who claim that Jesus wasn`t God and never claimed to be just read this statement.

john 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"


thirdly... islam claims that it is a message for all mankind and superseeds all the other religions but is of the same God...but how can this be true..when Jesus said

mark 16:15-"He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."


and also


matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

^^^


This above statment especially the second one, proves from Jesus`s own mouth that muhummad and the koran are of evil origins because he said the gospel will be preached to all nations then the end will come...he didn`t say there will be another book or prophet after me..no !!!!! he said the gospel is final and after it is preached to everybody the end of the world will come.



Lastly ...all you have to do is look at the fundemental teachings and practices of Jesus and muhummad and the koran and the bible...the koran and the bible are polar opposites... I mean Jesus was peaceful and muhummad was violent, the bible condems violence and the koran advocates it..now why would God ( apparently the same God for both books ) Go from peace love and faith and turn the other cheek to

4.89 : but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.


8.12: . I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.








Also how if the koran is written by the same God why would he make such a statement as this :


5.51: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people..


Sorry but the koran can only come from the devil...there is no other explination for it, other wise God has to be a nut job (no disrespect)...All I can say is that islam seeks to try and undo the saving grace of the bible and Jesus christ...and that is a clear sign of the devil and oh for all those that say that the koran has good in it...just remember these words the devil is a master of deception and as sly as they come for no wonder the bible says this about him:


"And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light."



Stay away from islam !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



PRAISE BE TO GOD ALWAYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-04-2010, 06:52 PM
i'm going to sticky and lock the thread for about an hour

to deal with the answer you gave in depth


are you willing to go further into the answers you gave ?

zooruka
01-04-2010, 06:59 PM
nah that pretty much sums up what I gotta say.


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-04-2010, 08:32 PM
i think i asked this once before and you never gave me an answer -
how do you view the passage that claims:
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, according to Our likeness"
firstly, why is it plural (us)?
and secondly (what i really want to know) is what is god's image, if not omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient?
surely god's image is not a physical image...?
does this passage then not tell us that man shares in god's omni-presence/power/knowledge?
or in other words, men are essentially gods in their own right (same likeness).
peace

zooruka
01-04-2010, 10:28 PM
i think i asked this once before and you never gave me an answer -
how do you view the passage that claims:
firstly, why is it plural (us)?
and secondly (what i really want to know) is what is god's image, if not omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient?
surely god's image is not a physical image...?
does this passage then not tell us that man shares in god's omni-presence/power/knowledge?
or in other words, men are essentially gods in their own right (same likeness).
peace


The reason why God said lets make man in our image (plural) is because God is a triune God !!!! which means God is father, son and holy spirit...Now when God made us in his image, it doesn`t mean we are ominpresent , omniscient or omnipotent... Now to understand what God means in making us like him, we have to look at what God is made up of..Now the bible tells us that God has a word which is Jesus and the bible also tells us that God has a spirit which is the holy spirit, So as we can see the bible says God is made up of a word and a spirit.. Now that leaves the father, if Jesus is the word of God and the holy spirit is the spirit of God what is the fathers role in the Godhead ???...His role is that of the mind of God !!!!, because the father in the trinity is the one who comes up with all the idea`s, creation, laws, the plan of salvation ect.... and then his word and spirit accomplish those idea`s..... example : Like when God said let there be light, God the father thought of the ideas spoke it and Jesus the word brought it into existance and then the holy spirit brought it to life...basically what im saying is the father thinks it, the word (jesus) brings it into existance, and the holy spirit animates it and sustains it.

So when God says lets make man in our image it means man has the same make up as God not in omnipresance, omnipotent ect... It means man has a Mind , a word and a spirit....Just like God.


This can be the only thing it means because mind word and spirit can be both for male and female...

This is the truth.


Peace be with you !

Art Vandelay
01-04-2010, 10:56 PM
one of my probelms with christianity is...

God wanted Jesus to die according to the bible so that mankind can be saved and be forgiven of there sins, and win a victory over the devil

explain to me why jesus had to die to forgive us for our sins and win a victory over the devil.

i don't understand that. couldn't he have just ran a marathon to beat the devil or baked a cake to beat the devil. why did he have to die? what is the correlation between dying and A) forgiving our sins and B) defeating the devil?

THE MASON
01-04-2010, 11:00 PM
but that passage is from genesis, before the time of jesus, the beginning of man with Adam. Your explanation would mean Jesus was alive during the time of Adam and then the Old Testament would be false.

Mumm Ra
01-04-2010, 11:15 PM
The reason why God said lets make man in our image (plural) is because God is a triune God !!!! which means God is father, son and holy spirit...Now when God made us in his image, it doesn`t mean we are ominpresent , omniscient or omnipotent... Now to understand what God means in making us like him, we have to look at what God is made up of..Now the bible tells us that God has a word which is Jesus and the bible also tells us that God has a spirit which is the holy spirit, So as we can see the bible says God is made up of a word and a spirit.. Now that leaves the father, if Jesus is the word of God and the holy spirit is the spirit of God what is the fathers role in the Godhead ???...His role is that of the mind of God !!!!, because the father in the trinity is the one who comes up with all the idea`s, creation, laws, the plan of salvation ect.... and then his word and spirit accomplish those idea`s..... example : Like when God said let there be light, God the father thought of the ideas spoke it and Jesus the word brought it into existance and then the holy spirit brought it to life...basically what im saying is the father thinks it, the word (jesus) brings it into existance, and the holy spirit animates it and sustains it.


interesting theory - if you believe in the triune god, which as far as I know Visionz did a good job a debunking and showing/ proving, as well as jesus not being god.

This can be the only thing it means because mind word and spirit can be both for male and female...

This is the truth.so can omni-presence/potence/science (I'll abbreviate as OmniPPP if I use it again) be for both male and female
which even before father/son/spirit I would think would be god's main attributes. how could a god be "god" if it did not possess even one of those attributes? if you take one of those away - it would place a limitation on god.

but that passage is from genesis, before the time of jesus, the beginning of man with Adam. Your explanation would mean Jesus was alive during the time of Adam and then the Old Testament would be false.
nice work

example : Like when God said let there be light, God the father thought of the ideas spoke it and Jesus the word brought it into existance and then the holy spirit brought it to life.does the bible actually say this as you just did?
and i don't see how that makes sense - how can you bring light into existence, then life? light isn't living.

zooruka
01-04-2010, 11:21 PM
one of my probelms with christianity is...



explain to me why jesus had to die to forgive us for our sins and win a victory over the devil.

i don't understand that. couldn't he have just ran a marathon to beat the devil or baked a cake to beat the devil. why did he have to die? what is the correlation between dying and A) forgiving our sins and B) defeating the devil?


Because that is how God roles...look in the old testement when the jews where in eygpt, and God wanted to set them free..he said to the jews take a lamb and kill it and put the blood on the top of your doors and on your door posts..so when the anger of God came over eygpt and he was going to kill all the first born sons of eygpt , the angle of death would see the blood on the jewish doors and pass over them and not harm the jews..Now in the new testement Jesus became that lamb so when he died all who believe in him and follow him will have his blood on them so when God`s anger comes he will pass over all those who believe in Jesus because they have his blood on them (metaphorically) and escape punishment, also to in the old testement when people sinned they use to sacrifice animals to be abolished of there sins usually a lamb, So God sent jesus as a lamb (that is why he is called the lamb of God) to replace the animal sacrifices and to die once and for all for the sins of mankind , basically he was the ultimate lamb sacrifice.


hope that helps


peace be with you !

Art Vandelay
01-04-2010, 11:27 PM
not really, but i guess if i was a die hard jesus fanatic like yourself, i would have had the same rebuttal.

zook, does that make sense to you? and i don't mean according to the bible or to god, i mean if you used logic, does that make sense?

zooruka
01-04-2010, 11:33 PM
but that passage is from genesis, before the time of jesus, the beginning of man with Adam. Your explanation would mean Jesus was alive during the time of Adam and then the Old Testament would be false.


Yes Jesus was even before adam...He is God so he has been there from all eternity...and proof of this is this:

John 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”


See jesus existed before the world was created so he can`t be human and the only things that existed before the creation of the world was angels and God and Jesus isn`t an angel .... So if he had "glory before the world was created" that can only mean he is GOD.


peace be with you !

zooruka
01-04-2010, 11:35 PM
not really, but i guess if i was a die hard jesus fanatic like yourself, i would have had the same rebuttal.

zook, does that make sense to you? and i don't mean according to the bible or to god, i mean if you used logic, does that make sense?


God ways are not our ways..so who can say what makes sense or doesn`t.... even God himself says:


My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the Lord.
'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9


Peace be with you !

EAGLE EYE
01-04-2010, 11:41 PM
god just sounds like pretentious dick weed in that quote zooruka

THE MASON
01-04-2010, 11:46 PM
Yes Jesus was even before adam...He is God so he has been there from all eternity...and proof of this is this:

John 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”


See jesus existed before the world was created so he can`t be human and the only things that existed before the creation of the world was angels and God and Jesus isn`t an angel .... So if he had "glory before the world was created" that can only mean he is GOD.


peace be with you !

so then the whole old testament is irrelevant? and therefore God need not exist, thus Jesus doesnt exist.

also how can Jesus be Father and Son? thats a outright contradiction

abanks47
01-04-2010, 11:54 PM
do you find it a bit hypocritical that you are a devout christian (or at least appear to be, apologies if you're not) yet you seem to love JMT? You defend christianity so much here yet while you're doing so listen to people who riticule and at times mock your religion.

Mumm Ra
01-05-2010, 12:09 AM
Because that is how God roles...look in the old testement when the jews where in eygpt, and God wanted to set them free..he said to the jews take a lamb and kill it and put the blood on the top of your doors and on your door posts..so when the anger of God came over eygpt and he was going to kill all the first born sons of eygpt
i actually was reading about this in one of my books today - it was very interesting
there are over 350 verses in the bible that give approval to kill or the justification of it (opposed to about 50 that connote restraint from killing). And 90 of those 350 that approve killing is god directly killing. Including innocent children like you pointed out

it also showed that from 1783 to 1550bc israelites invaded and ruled Egypt
so if joseph was sold into slavery - he was held by them. and if they were tortured thereafter - they were tortured by their own people.

i guess i didnt have a question about that, just thought it was a cool coincidence that i read about it earlier today

TSA
01-05-2010, 12:19 AM
i respect that young nigga zookura cause in the end of the day he know-his-shit

LORD NOSE
01-05-2010, 12:21 AM
Yes...

Islam is evil because of many reason`s..firstly the number one reason it is evil is ...........

Check out your main reason -

....because it`s fundemental claim, that Jesus was not crucified..



this is your belief, based on a book that You believe in - that reason is not a strong enough reason to label a large group of people who Practice Peace, evil.




this goes to the heart of the bible message and the plan of God in the bible specifically the new testement... See God wanted Jesus to die according to the bible so that mankind can be saved and be forgiven of there sins,and win a victory over the devil... .......


do you believe that he died so that when we die, if we believe, we'd be let into heaven ?

so he died and satan gained control of the world but not those who believe in christ -

so - who is this son of man that jesus speaks of coming in the future ?





and islam seeks to deny this fact,


it is your belief that this took place - others have other beliefs, practices, and cultures - many do not see the bible as a book of facts and actual historical events - are they all evil, will they all burn in hell for it ?




therefore trying to rob humanity of it`s salvation and denying God of his victory over the forces of darkness...but if you don`t believe that lets see what Jesus had to say about the idea of him not dying on the cross...



god had to win a victory over the forces of darkness ?












So you see peter said the same thing to Jesus and he immediatly said Get behind me satan...So Jesus knew straight away that saying he shouldn`t die on the cross, was the work of satan...

that is how you see it - for now

others may see it differently - should they burn in hell ?







The second reason...is they claim that Jesus isn`t divine, but just a man...(which is fundementally opposed to the message of the bible about who Jesus is..and for all those who claim that Jesus wasn`t God and never claimed to be just read this statement.

john 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"


that is how you see that scripture - others may see it this way



john 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, Islam!"

because, it has no birth record you see -


thirdly... islam claims that it is a message for all mankind and superseeds all the other religions but is of the same God...but how can this be true..when Jesus said

mark 16:15-"He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."


and also


matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

^^^

how you gonna do that if it's not in all languages and fits the needs of those people for that time ?








This above statment especially the second one, proves from Jesus`s own mouth that muhummad and the koran are of evil origins because he said the gospel will be preached to all nations then the end will come...

how else would all nations be able to hear the ghost spell ?


he didn`t say there will be another book or prophet after me..no !!!!! he said the gospel is final and after it is preached to everybody the end of the world will come.



why would he need to ?




Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Revelation 20:11-13 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)





Lastly ...all you have to do is look at the fundemental teachings and practices of Jesus and muhummad and the koran and the bible...the koran and the bible are polar opposites... I mean Jesus was peaceful and muhummad was violent, the bible condems violence and the koran advocates it..now why would God ( apparently the same God for both books ) Go from peace love and faith and turn the other cheek to



the quaran clearly states it confirms the book before it - the same violence from the same god can also be placed up for display -










Also how if the koran is written by the same God why would he make such a statement as this :

there are many puzzling things that god said in both the bible and the quaran
did god write the bible ?




Sorry but the koran can only come from the devil...


it comes from the bible



there is no other explination for it,



.........................you are not trying to find any



other wise God has to be a nut job (no disrespect)...All I can say is that islam seeks to try and undo the saving grace of the bible and Jesus christ...and that is a clear sign of the devil and oh for all those that say that the koran has good in it...just remember these words the devil is a master of deception and as sly as they come for no wonder the bible says this about him:

"And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light."

Stay away from islam !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



you would have to show evidence in the people the power of the god they say they believe in -

if the bible wasn't equally or more violent than the quaran, your argument would hold some weight -











you said you wouldn't go in depth - don't - when you ready to look in the mirror, it'll be here

Mumm Ra
01-05-2010, 12:31 AM
i respect that young nigga zookura cause in the end of the day he know-his-shit
no doubt
even if its as useful as pulling up obscure star wars info - it impresses me

Mumm Ra
01-05-2010, 12:39 AM
i just picked up on something -
prof claims that god's ways are not our ways, and they cannot be understood by us -
yet he uses his understanding of god's words to go against a god in another book -
which if it is god - equally cannot always be understood by man
yet prof does not use the same "god's ways cannot be understood" when applied to the Quran
doesn't seem fair

DrBold241
01-05-2010, 05:33 PM
My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the Lord.
'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9



my question: why do you say god said that?
we all clearly acknowledge the FACT that the bible was written by man not god.
but man said god said.....
so he said she said?
rumors can be fun i suppose.....

Mumm Ra
01-05-2010, 05:38 PM
My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways
forever separating man from god
:no:

THE MASON
01-05-2010, 09:06 PM
im still trying to figure out how Jesus can be God, yet God can send his Son (Jesus) to be sacrificed for us?

So God is dead? or did God sacrifice himself? and if He did, then who did He sacrifice himself too?

or did he sacrifice himself to himself? and if so, wouldnt that be pride, one of the 7 Cardinal Sins? and all this talk of glory, i believe Vainglory is a Cardinal Sin as well.

Vainglory = Glory in modern english

zooruka
01-05-2010, 09:41 PM
.

so can omni-presence/potence/science (I'll abbreviate as OmniPPP if I use it again) be for both male and female
which even before father/son/spirit I would think would be god's main attributes. how could a god be "god" if it did not possess even one of those attributes? if you take one of those away - it would place a limitation on god.

God has the ability`s of omnippp because he is God , but that is not the fundamental attributes, that make God who he is....Like I said when you look at the fundamental`s of God...you see that he has a word (which is Jesus christ) he has a spirit (which is the holy spirit) and he has a mind (which is the father) that is essance of who God is...Now if you think about it you as a human, have the ability to run fast or jump high, but those abilities do not fundamentally make you who you are just like God`s omnippp doesn`t make him who he is, but rather what he can do...Now if we go by what the bible teaches what essentially makes you who you are, is your mind your word and your spirit, these three attributes make you who you are at your very core level...and thats what makes us in the image of God...because as we know it can`t beflesh and bones or omnippp because both God and human`s don`t have those things in common, but he (god) does have a mind, word and spirit and so do we....whether you are male or female !!!!..so mind,word and spirit must be what makes us in the image of God, because both male and female have these attributes and so does God, it cannot be anything else, because even male and females while human are different in make up, but not in the fact that we both have a mind, a word and a spirit....and so does God therefore making us in his image.


peace be with you !

Visionz
01-05-2010, 09:47 PM
Yes Jesus was even before adam...He is God so he has been there from all eternity...and proof of this is this:

John 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”


See jesus existed before the world was created so he can`t be human and the only things that existed before the creation of the world was angels and God and Jesus isn`t an angel .... So if he had "glory before the world was created" that can only mean he is GOD.


peace be with you !

you state matter of factly things you can not know. Scientifically speaking MUCH existed before the earth, including other planets, stars, galaxies. Your assumptions are based on a falsehood.

Jesus often speaks of the One who sent me, .....or doing the work that he was sent to do........No one commands God to do anything as no one is worthy of giving orders to God but Jesus is following commands. Why is Jesus doing what he was TOLD to do?

Visionz
01-05-2010, 09:59 PM
John 19:17 .............I ascend unto my father and your Father, and to MY God and your God.


thoughts?

zooruka
01-06-2010, 02:35 AM
Jesus often speaks of the One who sent me, .....or doing the work that he was sent to do........No one commands God to do anything as no one is worthy of giving orders to God but Jesus is following commands. Why is Jesus doing what he was TOLD to do?


Becuase the father is the head of the trinity, that is why he tells Jesus what to do and sent Jesus.. but that doesn`t mean Jesus isn`t God...its just Jesus is under the father in the trinity hirachy, so thats why he does what the father send him to do.

look visionz we can argue about this till the cows come home !!! but unless you believe in the trinity, we will just go round in circles.


John 19:17 .............I ascend unto my father and your Father, and to MY God and your God.

thoughts?


Like I said The father is the head of the trinity that is why Jesus said my father and your father my God and your God, because as the head of the trinity the father is God, but Jesus as apart of the trinity is also God, it`s just the father is the head, that is why jesus refers to him as God, and why he said.... There is none good except God


mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.


why he says this is because the father is the head, and the one who came up with all the idea`s so that is why he is God and the only good one.


peace visionz


peace.

LORD NOSE
01-06-2010, 09:50 AM
three beings, but they are all god

that is a belief of yours -

allot of people do not believe this for good reason



33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."



34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26505e)]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?

oDoUoSoKo
01-06-2010, 10:59 AM
ok heres my question, and dont fuckin delete it.

Prof, what would u do if u found out that the god you worship never existed? whether its that another religion is right or that science unequivocally disporoves any religion?

LORD NOSE
01-06-2010, 11:02 AM
why would i delete a legit question - stupid

zooruka
01-06-2010, 05:50 PM
ok heres my question, and dont fuckin delete it.

Prof, what would u do if u found out that the god you worship never existed? whether its that another religion is right or that science unequivocally disporoves any religion?

Firstly... You have the workings of Jesus (the miracles the teachings ect...) these prove there is a God ... secondly There is no other religion that has a teacher like Jesus who did the things he did or taught the things he said, and if you say there are I say they are all fakes (demoniclly inspired) or man made myths...also if there are so called good teachings in another religion like buddhism, islam ect... remember what the bible says :


2 cor 11:14 "But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."

What this means is even the devil can create false religions so they appear good, but in the end are all designed to keep you away from the true religion christianity.



As for science disproving God....this will never happen, as science learns from what God created, and everything in this world that exists around us, points to intelligant design (which means that it was created by somthing or someone who knew what he was doing !!!! and I believe that was God.) as opposed to the scientific theory of creation by chance.


thanks for your question


Peace be with you !

Ninja
01-06-2010, 06:43 PM
Has anyone seen the video The Qur'an and the Bible in the Light of Science?
Its between Dr William Campbelt from Pensylvania, USA and Dr Zakir Naik from Mumbai, India.
Very interesting!

fw3do0TLv6o

Shogah
01-06-2010, 07:19 PM
Peace be with you !

Do you type this each time you post, or you have it somehow stuck, like some template?

Just curious.

zooruka
01-06-2010, 07:28 PM
Do you type this each time you post, or you have it somehow stuck, like some template?

Just curious.


I type it....Because I want to offer peace to all, even though we might disagree on certain things.


peace be with you !

oDoUoSoKo
01-06-2010, 08:37 PM
Firstly... You have the workings of Jesus (the miracles the teachings ect...) these prove there is a God ... secondly There is no other religion that has a teacher like Jesus who did the things he did or taught the things he said, and if you say there are I say they are all fakes (demoniclly inspired) or man made myths...also if there are so called good teachings in another religion like buddhism, islam ect... remember what the bible says :


2 cor 11:14 "But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."

What this means is even the devil can create false religions so they appear good, but in the end are all designed to keep you away from the true religion christianity.



As for science disproving God....this will never happen, as science learns from what God created, and everything in this world that exists around us, points to intelligant design (which means that it was created by somthing or someone who knew what he was doing !!!! and I believe that was God.) as opposed to the scientific theory of creation by chance.


thanks for your question


Peace be with you !
ok lets take two things u said here and experiment..u know, like scientists..eloels

first...since science can only discover things god created...what if scientists discover that God does exist but he is a liar (like humans, since we are created in his image) moreover, they discover that since the devil can disguise himself as one of the light..he IS the devil?

zooruka
01-06-2010, 08:54 PM
ok lets take two things u said here and experiment..u know, like scientists..eloels

first...since science can only discover things god created...what if scientists discover that God does exist but he is a liar (like humans, since we are created in his image) moreover, they discover that since the devil can disguise himself as one of the light..he IS the devil?


ummm no !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-06-2010, 10:28 PM
well -


maybe this is a disguise - and you got tricked

pastors and preachers of the bible claim to be light bearers also - maybe they are misleading you concerning jesus -


maybe you are 100% correct and there is a holy trinity and hell fire for bad people when they die - but what you DO NOT have concerning these things are facts - these are things you believe -


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/2716384364_eab5d33baf.jpg?v=0


you did say that this picture of yours is an accurate description of the jesus of the bible - a caucasian born and raised in the middle east - in the bible, it states that he came from a pacific bloodline - so, if he was/is caucasian, are black, and everyone else considered a gentile ?







Proverbs 18:2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18:2&version=NIV)
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.
Proverbs 18:1-3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18:1-3&version=NIV) (in Context) Proverbs 18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+18&version=NIV) (Whole Chapter)





Matthew 13:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13:14&version=NIV)
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
Matthew 13:13-15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13:13-15&version=NIV) (in Context) Matthew 13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13&version=NIV) (Whole Chapter)



As Salaam Alaikum

oDoUoSoKo
01-06-2010, 10:31 PM
ya he didnt even answer my question

Visionz
01-06-2010, 10:56 PM
you state matter of factly things you can not know. Scientifically speaking MUCH existed before the earth, including other planets, stars, galaxies. Your assumptions are based on a falsehood.

you disregarded this. Please address it.

Olive Oil Goombah
01-06-2010, 11:05 PM
wow people love to attack innocent christians.

fucking bigots man.

oDoUoSoKo
01-06-2010, 11:10 PM
a guy named christian..used to pick on me...eloels.

Visionz
01-06-2010, 11:48 PM
wow people love to attack innocent christians.

fucking bigots man.

I find it funny that ruka states any religion that isn't christianity or judaism comes from the devil and then the people who question that mode of thinking are the ones accused of being bigots.

zooruka
01-07-2010, 12:31 AM
you state matter of factly things you can not know. Scientifically speaking MUCH existed before the earth, including other planets, stars, galaxies. Your assumptions are based on a falsehood.



The scientists have a secret visionz they will never tell you.....though a few assorted dating methods give the earth in millions and billions of years, there are far more that limit the earths age to thousands of years.

Why are we not told of this ????

Because it would unravel the politicallly correct and scientifically pagan notion of evolution.


Its funny visionz you are always telling me not to believe everything you hear yet you seem to believe scientist at the drop of a hat.


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-07-2010, 07:40 AM
The scientists have a secret visionz they will never tell you.....though a few assorted dating methods give the earth in millions and billions of years, there are far more that limit the earths age to thousands of years.
exactly how old do you think the earth is?
and what dating methods date it back that long?

Why are we not told of this ????

Because it would unravel the politicallly correct and scientifically pagan notion of evolution.trust me prof - we are told this (time and time again actually).....its just that nobody pays it any mind because it makes no logical sense


Its funny visionz you are always telling me not to believe everything you hear yet you seem to believe scientist at the drop of a hat.
all due respect prof - it doesn't take simply hearing a scientist say "the earth is billions of years old" to come to the conclusion that it really is that old, or at the very least, much older than a few thousand years

there's innumerable factors that ANYONE can look into with little effort, and without the word from a scientist - like fossils, erosion, the time it would take to develop a stable atmosphere, ect.
or one's common sense that a six sextillion ton ball of mass didn't pop out of thin air in a nanosecond and start inhabiting multi-cellular intelligent life several thousand years ago.
when one's LOGIC is involved it doesn't take a scientist

praise "Bob"

Mumm Ra
01-07-2010, 07:48 AM
My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways
isn't the bible made up of god's thoughts and ways? hmmm something doesn't seem to match up there. anyways -

if it is impossible for you to understand god..
and the devil is a deceiver....
how do you determine if you're following god or the devil?
both go against your thoughts and actions and want you to follow

Visionz
01-07-2010, 10:34 AM
The scientists have a secret visionz they will never tell you.....though a few assorted dating methods give the earth in millions and billions of years, there are far more that limit the earths age to thousands of years.

Why are we not told of this ????

Because it would unravel the politicallly correct and scientifically pagan notion of evolution.


Its funny visionz you are always telling me not to believe everything you hear yet you seem to believe scientist at the drop of a hat.


peace be with you !
sounds like you're talking about some mass conspiracy that doesn't actually exist.

The speed of light is a universal constant. If a star or galaxy is more than ten thousand light years away then your theory of nothing existing before the earth (based on your assumption on the earths age) is shot to shit. My statement had nothing to do with evolution.

oDoUoSoKo
01-08-2010, 01:43 AM
he hasnt answered my ?

LORD NOSE
01-11-2010, 10:07 AM
http://theindustryexposed.com/media/k2/users/133.jpgsex is really prevalent in music because it's a sin. so of course the illuminati want you to sin because that is their goal. to get as many people in hell. also with the spread of STDS and HIV. (http://www.wutang-corp.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=73:industryp53&Itemid=1#comment661)
Written by Perla (http://www.wutang-corp.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=itemlist&task=user&id=193:perla)on Monday, 11 January 2010 06:26
The Industry Part 53 (http://www.wutang-corp.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=73:industryp53&Itemid=1) (Video Series (http://www.wutang-corp.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=itemlist&task=category&id=1:vids&Itemid=2))




Prof Zooruka


is Sex a sin ?

WARPATH
01-11-2010, 12:40 PM
Prof Zook,

Why did jesus only reveal himself to a few people to preach when there was a whole planet of people waiting on a sign from god?

zooruka
01-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Prof Zooruka


is Sex a sin ?



No not with in the confinds of marriage....actually the bible tells married couples not to deny one another sex.

peace be with you !

zooruka
01-11-2010, 06:47 PM
Prof Zook,

Why did jesus only reveal himself to a few people to preach when there was a whole planet of people waiting on a sign from god?


Firstly most all of the planet was either pagan or worshiping false gods...secondly Jesus said himself he was sent only to the lost sheep of israel...but having said that Jesus after he was resurected told the disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creatures...So while Jesus did only appear to israel ...his message was meant for all mankind its just, he would leave the spreading of the message to his disciples.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-11-2010, 06:52 PM
Firstly most all of the planet was either pagan or worshiping false gods...secondly Jesus said himself he was sent only to the lost sheep of israel...but having said that Jesus after he was resurected told the disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creatures...So while Jesus did only appear to israel ...his message was meant for all mankind its just, he would leave the spreading of the message to his disciples.


peace be with you !


great - now - what is the difference between israel and all the world ?

what is so special about their bloodline, and how does jesus fit within that bloodline

zooruka
01-11-2010, 11:47 PM
great - now - what is the difference between israel and all the world ?

what is so special about their bloodline, and how does jesus fit within that bloodline


Israel as a nation was set apart or created by God (when God made sarah pregnant at an extremly old age) to be set apart for the service of God...they are a chosen race of people, who through them God would bless mankind..and this was done when Jesus was born !!!!...it really has nothing to with bloodline that makes them special but rather what they where created and set apart to do.

peace be with you !

THE MASON
01-11-2010, 11:57 PM
^ so Jesus isnt really that special after all, its more the Israelites who are important?

then whats all the hype with Jesus, if all the Israelites are special and blessed by God

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 12:00 AM
...they are a chosen race of people...

it really has nothing to with bloodline

there we go -


and this chosen RACE is the caucasian - correct ?

THE MASON
01-12-2010, 12:01 AM
Firstly most all of the planet was either pagan or worshiping false gods...secondly Jesus said himself he was sent only to the lost sheep of israel...but having said that Jesus after he was resurected told the disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creatures...So while Jesus did only appear to israel ...his message was meant for all mankind its just, he would leave the spreading of the message to his disciples.


peace be with you !

Who are you, and Christians in general, to call them false gods?

if they did the same to your religion, they would be heretical and sinners, yet you do that very thing to theres.

kind of hypocritical dont you think prof?

zooruka
01-12-2010, 12:17 AM
^ so Jesus isnt really that special after all, its more the Israelites who are important?

then whats all the hype with Jesus, if all the Israelites are special and blessed by God


The israelites are special...but they are special because they where created as a people and a nation to serve God...but what makes them really special is the fact that the messiah Jesus Christ would come to them and then out of the jews would come the salvation of all man kind...so if you think about it the Jews where created for the specific purpose of hosting Jesus Christ..and that is what makes them really special.


peace be with you !

WARPATH
01-12-2010, 09:50 AM
Zook,

Does god hate fags?

THE MASON
01-12-2010, 09:56 AM
The israelites are special...but they are special because they where created as a people and a nation to serve God...but what makes them really special is the fact that the messiah Jesus Christ would come to them and then out of the jews would come the salvation of all man kind...so if you think about it the Jews where created for the specific purpose of hosting Jesus Christ..and that is what makes them really special.


peace be with you !

is that a yes, jews are more special then jesus?

because, through your logic, without God picking the Jews then Jesus would never exist. So the Jews must have a higher importance rating then Jesus.

So why do we praise Jesus, when its a whole nation of people that are more important?

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 10:21 AM
deep ^

zooruka
01-12-2010, 05:39 PM
is that a yes, jews are more special then jesus?

because, through your logic, without God picking the Jews then Jesus would never exist. So the Jews must have a higher importance rating then Jesus.

So why do we praise Jesus, when its a whole nation of people that are more important?


No the jews are not more important than Jesus.

Zook,

Does god hate fags?

No God does not hate anyone..but he hates sin....and what homosexuals do is sin.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 05:53 PM
so you're just gonna skip over post #56


http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1785578&postcount=56

zooruka
01-12-2010, 06:03 PM
No they are not cacasian...they are hebrews....most jews look white now because they went into dispora in europe and the west and adapted to the climate therefore giving them a white apperance or they interbreed with caucasian people ect.......but the original jews looked like arabs do today...there are still some jews who look like that most arab jews who went into dispora in arab countries like yemen, eygpt ect...


sunny if you think about it the blacks in american today in a thousand years or more,will become white eventually, because as each generation passes there skin will lighten, generation by generation as the climate in america isn`t hot, so they will slowly lighten and adapt to the american enviroment and eventually become white, just like cacasians did....If they interbreed this will happen even faster, but if they don`t and just interbreed within the same race it will still happen eventually it will just take abit longer.


peace be with you !


peace be with you

THE MASON
01-12-2010, 08:29 PM
but the Jews were chosen first, to bring forth Jesus to this world, without them, you would have no Jesus. and if you say Jesus was chosen first then delivered, i will call bullshit, because Moses was the first prophet of the Jews and chosen by God to lead them before Jesus even breathed his first breath.

so if Jews arent more important then Jesus, then why are they the chosen people? and why did the Jews have Jesus executed, if God chose them? wouldnt that be commiting a sin?

also, to relate to the first statement, why is Jesus more imprtant then Moses? it was Moses who saved the Jews, not Jesus. why did Moses not become the "heavenly saviour" or God's son?

zooruka
01-12-2010, 08:41 PM
and if you say Jesus was chosen first then delivered, i will call bullshit,


Sorry thats the way it is....Jesus is God so he was before the jews.

Jesus even says it himself john 8:58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

So if abraham is the father of the jews..and Jesus was before him...he was chosen first.

so if Jews arent more important then Jesus, then why are they the chosen people? and why did the Jews have Jesus executed, if God chose them? wouldnt that be commiting a sin? ?

Not all jews rejected Jesus..if you actually read the bible alot of Jews embraced Jesus read about his triumphant entry into jerusalem and what the people where shouting about him.

also, to relate to the first statement, why is Jesus more imprtant then Moses? it was Moses who saved the Jews, not Jesus. why did Moses not become the "heavenly saviour" or God's son?

It was God who saved the jews not moses !!!!! Moses was just used by God to acheieve this..but it was all God, even moses himself would tell you that....

peace be with you !

THE MASON
01-12-2010, 09:00 PM
Sorry thats the way it is....Jesus is God so he was before the jews.



Not all jews rejected Jesus..if you actually read the bible alot of Jews embraced Jesus read about his triumphant entry into jerusalem and what the people where shouting about him.

this would imply that the Jews are not "pure", perhaps infected by the devil, if some would still think to kill Jesus, and according to your logic, God. So why would God or Jesus, pick a nation as "chosen" who in the end would kill them?

It was God who saved the jews not moses !!!!! Moses was just used by God to acheieve this..but it was all God, even moses himself would tell you that....

Why didn't Jesus just save the Jews, since he is God.

peace be with you !


i have to give it to you though, you got answers for everything even if i think some are ass backwards

zooruka
01-12-2010, 09:10 PM
this would imply that the Jews are not "pure", perhaps infected by the devil, if some would still think to kill Jesus, and according to your logic, God. So why would God or Jesus, pick a nation as "chosen" who in the end would kill them?

It was some of the people but mostly it was the sanhedrin ( the jewish religious elite) that wanted Jesus dead, because they didn`t want to lose power and where extremely corrupted, in the way they served God and in there guardianship of the religion...and saw Jesus as a threat...but also it must be said that the driving force was the devil and his army of drakness behind the scene`s trying to get rid of Jesus ...and eventually they where allowed to kill jesus, but this was God`s will to use there attempt at victory to be there ultimate defeat.

Why didn't Jesus just save the Jews, since he is God.
Jesus did save the Jews, because he is God...so he was there when the Jews where saved from the eygptians...but if you mean why he didn`t come in person, it was not his time yet....but later when he did come he saved not only the Jews but all of humanity that belong to God..by fighting and destroying the works of the devil.

p.s I don`t got all the answers , I just know what I know namsayin.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 09:36 PM
No they are not cacasian...they are hebrews....most jews look white now because they went into dispora in europe and the west and adapted to the climate therefore giving them a white apperance


be honest with us and yourself

are you making this up as you go ?




or they interbreed with caucasian people ect.......but the original jews looked like arabs do today...



and how do you know this for a fact ?






sunny if you think about it


LMAO !

the blacks in american today in a thousand years or more,will become white eventually,


Get Help



because as each generation passes there skin will lighten, generation by generation as the climate in america isn`t hot, so they will slowly lighten and adapt to the american enviroment and eventually become white, just like cacasians did....



ok - the jokes over



If they interbreed this will happen even faster, but if they don`t and just interbreed within the same race it will still happen eventually it will just take abit longer.


peace be with you !


peace be with you


i feel sorry for you

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 09:38 PM
but the Jews were chosen first, to bring forth Jesus to this world, without them, you would have no Jesus. and if you say Jesus was chosen first then delivered, i will call bullshit, because Moses was the first prophet of the Jews and chosen by God to lead them before Jesus even breathed his first breath.

so if Jews arent more important then Jesus, then why are they the chosen people? and why did the Jews have Jesus executed, if God chose them? wouldnt that be commiting a sin?

also, to relate to the first statement, why is Jesus more imprtant then Moses? it was Moses who saved the Jews, not Jesus. why did Moses not become the "heavenly saviour" or God's son?


phukin brilliant ^^^

thanks

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 09:45 PM
....but later when he did come he saved not only the Jews but all of humanity that belong to God..by fighting and destroying the works of the devil.

you believe that Islam is of the Devil

that is your belief


if jesus destroyed the works of the devil, how come the religion of Islam was able to be established some time later -

if he destroyed the works of the devil, how was hitler able to do what he did ?

how come it's so much worst now, considering we have big bombs and sick firearms today ?

Mumm Ra
01-12-2010, 09:47 PM
i would say humanity got much more fucked up after jesus' time than before

zooruka
01-12-2010, 10:37 PM
you believe that Islam is of the Devil

that is your belief


if jesus destroyed the works of the devil, how come the religion of Islam was able to be established some time later -

if he destroyed the works of the devil, how was hitler able to do what he did ?

how come it's so much worst now, considering we have big bombs and sick firearms today ?

Jesus did destroy the works of the devil by revealing the truth to mankind..because the works of the devil is lies..Jesus called him the father of lies, and that is his main weapon so Jesus defeated him by revealing the truth.

Those who belong to God know the truth...but those who do not belong to God...follow falsehood....

sunny there is a war going on still...even though the devil has been defeated...he still has some influance and has an army and humans who belong to him and do his bidding ...but know the kingdom of God is advancing on his territory, but he won`t go down without a fight...he knows he is doomed to failure but will keep fighting such is his nature.


That is why you still have people like hitler , better gunz ect....

Jesus said he came not to bring peace to the world but a sword (which is the truth of his word ) he brought a sword because the world is a battle field and we must fight individually and collectively..but like I said the bible reveals satan is defeated because God has opened the door to heaven to humanity who belong to him, through the scarifice of his son Jesus christ on the cross and by the spreading of the truth...plus the bible says he will be thrown in the lake of fire forever, but he still will try to drag as many people down with him as he can...thats why we must fight.

peace be with you !

Ciaran
01-12-2010, 10:50 PM
do you think other spieces go to heaven? dogs, birds, lions, bugs whatever...

or is it just homo-sapiens? if so, what makes us special to a God over everything else on earth just as evolved as us?

zooruka
01-12-2010, 10:54 PM
do you think other spieces go to heaven? dogs, birds, lions, bugs whatever...

or is it just homo-sapiens? if so, what makes us special to a God over everything else on earth just as evolved as us?

know only humans go to heaven..as far as I know....we are different to other species because we are made in the image of God...that is why God loves us so much.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 11:05 PM
so your god has to fight the devil over and over again - and still hasn't killed him for good

your god destroyed HIS WORKS 2000 years ago -


2000 years later, the devil got new improved tricks and more stable works

and it's a war between the ONE who created everything in existence and a creation of HIS called the devil -

so your god destroyed the works of the devil then got killed by the devil and is coming back in the future to fight him again




nice story

Ciaran
01-12-2010, 11:10 PM
haha i knew you would have an answer. No one can really argue with a persons belief structure, you seem to have chosen your path.

A life subserveant to an invisible man in the sky isnt for me but whatever.

'do you!' - o.d.b

Mumm Ra
01-12-2010, 11:12 PM
and it's a war between the ONE who created everything in existence and a creation of HIS called the devil -

so your god destroyed the works of the devil then got killed by the devil and is coming back in the future to fight him again




nice story

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh178/daftmahatma/BillCosby.gif

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 11:14 PM
lmao !

zooruka
01-12-2010, 11:20 PM
so your god has to fight the devil over and over again - and still hasn't killed him for good

your god destroyed HIS WORKS 2000 years ago -


2000 years later, the devil got new improved tricks and more stable works

and it's a war between the ONE who created everything in existence and a creation of HIS called the devil -

so your god destroyed the works of the devil then got killed by the devil and is coming back in the future to fight him again




nice story


Jesus when he died on the cross he dealt the devil a defeat...because when he died he opened the door to heaven again and for people to be saved...You see sunny the devil thought he was defaeting God by killing Jesus but in fact God was defeating him.


God doesn`t have to fight the devil over and over again sunny...but we humans do...look Jesus has opened the door to heaven, and has invited all to come in, but the devil is trying to stop that...so thats why we must still fight...but we are fighting from a postion of victory, but the devil is trying to take that away from us.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 11:29 PM
Jesus when he died on the cross he dealt the devil a defeat...because when he died he opened the door to heaven again and for people to be saved...You see sunny the devil thought he was defaeting God by killing Jesus but in fact God was defeating him.





this is what you tell yourself

this is what you make yourself believe

what you are saying is not facts




so your god is playing games





God doesn`t have to fight the devil over and over again sunny...but we humans do...look Jesus has opened the door to heaven, and has invited all to come in,





and your god requires that you die before you get into heaven





but the devil is trying to stop that...so thats why we must still fight...but we are fighting from a postion of victory, but the devil is trying to take that away from us.


peace be with you !


only those who are from your god can understand this - yall must be special -

Mumm Ra
01-12-2010, 11:41 PM
God doesn`t have to fight the devil over and over again sunny...but we humans do...look Jesus has opened the door to heaven, and has invited all to come in
isn't god (jesus) suppose to return to fight the devil again?
there we go -


and this chosen RACE is the caucasian - correct ?
something interesting to think about -
jesus claims to be the Son of Man
and for almost all of history caucasians didn't consider anybody besides themselves to even be human

zooruka
01-12-2010, 11:47 PM
isn't god (jesus) suppose to return to fight the devil again?

No..he is coming back to execute the punishment on him.

something interesting to think about -
jesus claims to be the Son of Man
and for almost all of history caucasians didn't consider anybody besides themselves to even be human

mumm ra...you are white ??????


peace be with you !

zooruka
01-12-2010, 11:48 PM
only those who are from your god can understand this - yall must be special -

Yes we are !!!!!!!!

sunny you can be one of us to...Just except Jesus as your lord and saviour.

peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 11:57 PM
Yes we are !!!!!!!!

sunny you can be one of us to...Just except Jesus as your lord and saviour.

peace be with you !

the way you display your god turns me off from him

zooruka
01-13-2010, 12:00 AM
the way you display your god turns me off from him

The offer is still there anytime you wanna take it.


I will pray for you sunny....


(no homo)


peace be with you !

Drunken Monk
01-13-2010, 12:18 AM
zooruka did u read the kuoran?

zooruka
01-13-2010, 12:24 AM
zooruka did u read the kuoran?

No I haven`t read the koran....but I have read excerpts from it....and what I read wasn`t pretty...but drunk I have no intrest in trying to be one of these liberal, new aged hippies...who think they are intellectual because they embrace all religions...when in fact they are being led astray.


Im more grimey and like to stick to my beliefs...that doesn`t mean I haven`t inquired about what other religions are about..I have been on that search and saw that christianity is the truth...not to mention my religion has helped me with some tough situation in life.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 12:29 AM
The offer is still there anytime you wanna take it.


hell no


I will pray for you sunny....


please don't

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 12:29 AM
No..he is coming back to execute the punishment on him.
okay...i guess that somehow doesn't count as fighting him...
will the devil not exist after this ?



mumm ra...you are white ??????


what does this matter?
besides you should know after posting my pictures everywhere

sunny you can be one of us to...Just except Jesus as your lord and saviour.
this is my problem with it - christianity does not require any behavior change (upliftment)
doesn't require living healthily, peacefully, or righteously
but then again that's why christianity was estabilshed - to wipe the guilt off the slavemasters while telling the slaves to turn the other cheek and find heaven after they're dehumanized and killed.

you yourself (Prof Zooruka) even confirmed this when you told me jesus would accept someone into heaven who did nothing but bad with their life while wholeheartedly believing in jesus
but someone who lived nothing but a righteous life but did not believe in jesus would get punished for eternity
- there is nothing you could say that would make me NOT have a problem with this

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 12:32 AM
No I haven`t read the koran....but I have read excerpts from it....and what I read wasn`t pretty...but drunk I have no intrest in trying to be one of these liberal, new aged hippies...who think they are intellectual because they embrace all religions...when in fact they are being led astray.
why do you assume that because you READ something, you HAVE to embrace it?
why can't you seek to LEARN?


Im more grimey and like to stick to my beliefs...that doesn`t mean I haven`t inquired about what other religions are about..I have been on that search and saw that christianity is the truth...
what other ways of life/ religions have you fully studied enough to completely understand?

Drunken Monk
01-13-2010, 12:33 AM
No I haven`t read the koran....but I have read excerpts from it....and what I read wasn`t pretty...but drunk I have no intrest in trying to be one of these liberal, new aged hippies...who think they are intellectual because they embrace all religions...when in fact they are being led astray.


Im more grimey and like to stick to my beliefs...that doesn`t mean I haven`t inquired about what other religions are about..I have been on that search and saw that christianity is the truth...not to mention my religion has helped me with some tough situation in life.


peace be with you !



TO TALK ABOUT ISLAM WORLD U NEED TO READ KUORAN 1OFALL TO KNOW WHAT U TALKING BOUT
U BITCHIN AS A POOR IGNORANT BUT DO WAHT U WANT


PEACE BE WIT U lool

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 12:35 AM
please don't
lol i know how u feel
when i hear people tell me this its the most offensive thing to me

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 12:35 AM
No I haven`t read the koran....but I have read excerpts from it....and what I read wasn`t pretty...but drunk I have no intrest in trying to be one of these liberal, new aged hippies...who think they are intellectual because they embrace all religions...when in fact they are being led astray.



we've been to science, math, and social studies class - it's like you only go to gym......to pass out pamphlets


Im more grimey and like to stick to my beliefs...that doesn`t mean I haven`t inquired about what other religions are about..I have been on that search and saw that christianity is the truth...not to mention my religion has helped me with some tough situation in life.


peace be with you !


you haven't been on much of a search if you've never read the Quaran

zooruka
01-13-2010, 12:39 AM
okay...i guess that somehow doesn't count as fighting him...
will the devil not exist after this ?

No he will exist ...its just he will exist in hell and eternal torment for all eternity.



what does this matter?
besides you should know after posting my pictures everywhere

I know your white...hence the mumm ra you are white comment...I was just surprised the way you worded the statment you made...it was like you wasn`t white.


this is my problem with it - christianity does not require any behavior change (upliftment)
doesn't require living healthily, peacefully, or righteously


Yes it does it requires you to repent and changes your ways and live according to the bible...Jesus called it being born again.

you yourself (Prof Zooruka) even confirmed this when you told me jesus would accept someone into heaven who did nothing but bad with their life while wholeheartedly believing in jesus
but someone who lived nothing but a righteous life but did not believe in jesus would get punished for eternity
- there is nothing you could say that would make me NOT have a problem with this

Look if a person was living in sin all there lives but on there death bed repented and believed in Jesus...they would be saved.... as opposed to a person who lived rightiously (which is impossible anyway without Jesus) but who didn`t believe in Jesus...proof of this is the good thief who believed in Jesus while next to him on the cross and was told by Jesus he would be in paridise.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 12:40 AM
lol i know how u feel
when i hear people tell me this its the most offensive thing to me

because they're arrogant/self righteous and they look down on you as if they have light that you need - such is the way of the blind


what does the bible say about those low in spirit though

zooruka
01-13-2010, 12:44 AM
because they're arrogant/self righteous and they look down on you as if they have light that you need - such is the way of the blind


what does the bible say about those low in spirit though


No sunny it`s actually because they care about you and want you to be saved...it`s just the evil one has blinded you to this so you look at it as arrogance.

also you cats talk about building all the time...yet all you do is come on here and attack (mainly christianity)... You only seem to build with people who talk in false hood....(eg islam , buddhism taoism 5%ers ect...)


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 12:46 AM
No he will exist ...its just he will exist in hell and eternal torment for all eternity.
children stories -
anyways, so the devil, who is already occupying hell, will be cast into his own domain.....and be tormented in his own domain for eternity...?
gotcha.





I know your white...hence the mumm ra you are white comment...I was just surprised the way you worded the statment you made...it was like you wasn`t white.
lets set something straight here - i have no attachment to my skin
what i told you was the facts of the situation regardless of who I may or may not be - and that's what matters to me





Yes it does it requires you to repent and changes your ways and live according to the bible...Jesus called it being born again.
no - it requires you to repent, NOT change your ways -
as you will so eloquently explain here:



Look if a person was living in sin all there lives but on there death bed repented and believed in Jesus...they would be saved.... as opposed to a person who lived rightiously (which is impossible anyway without Jesus) but who didn`t believe in Jesus...proof of this is the good thief who believed in Jesus while next to him on the cross and was told by Jesus he would be in paridise.


peace be with you !
this is EXACTLY what i just told you Prof, only you reworded it with some extra words for us
and i still have a problem with it

Drunken Monk
01-13-2010, 12:47 AM
please zooruka tell me what u know about muslim world

start

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 12:48 AM
also you cats talk about building all the time...yet all you do is come on here and attack (mainly christianity)... You only seem to build with people who talk in false hood....(eg islam , buddhism taoism 5%ers ect...)

and this is NOT arrogant??

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh178/daftmahatma/BillCosby.gif
okay..

Drunken Monk
01-13-2010, 12:50 AM
waste of time

zooruka
01-13-2010, 12:52 AM
children stories -
anyways, so the devil, who is already occupying hell, will be cast into his own domain.....and be tormented in his own domain for eternity...?
gotcha.

the devil is not in hell now...he roams free to serve his purpose...but one day he will be put there.






lets set something straight here - i have no attachment to my skin
what i told you was the facts of the situation regardless of who I may or may not be - and that's what matters to me

o.k mumm ra whatever !!!!!





no - it requires you to repent, NOT change your ways -
:

Yes it does read the bible mumm ra and find the part when Jesus says you must be reborn again.



this is EXACTLY what i just told you Prof, only you reworded it with some extra words for us
and i still have a problem with it


Mumm ra...Im not saying you don`t have to change your ways..all I am saying is you will be saved if you on your death bed repent and accept Jesus as lord and saviour....as OPPOSED !!!!! to someone who claims to live rightously but does not except Jesus as Lord....stop twisting my words.



peace be with you !

zooruka
01-13-2010, 12:54 AM
please zooruka tell me what u know about muslim world

start


enough.


peace be with you !

zooruka
01-13-2010, 12:57 AM
and this is NOT arrogant??




No Its not arrogance mumm ra.


The truth must be told !!!!!!!!!!!


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 12:58 AM
im honestly not seeing how we have a disagreement prof, pardon me
you just said sinful person who repents a second before they die (thus, NO behavior change from evil ways) = heaven
righteous person who doesn't accept jesus = eternal hellfire
is this not correct? I'm telling you i have a problem with it.

lets say someone cures cancer, gets rid of poverty, never so much as has a negative thought their entire life, always shows peace in their ways and actions, and doesn't believe in jesus....are they NOT a righteous person in your eye?
No Its not arrogance mumm ra.


The truth must be told !!!!!!!!!!!
perhaps one should seek their dictionary

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 01:04 AM
No sunny it`s actually because they care about you and want you to be saved...it`s just the evil one has blinded you to this so you look at it as arrogance.


you feel that "the evil one" has blinded me

i'm saying that you are blinded by white supremacy - your words wreak of it and it's sad

also you cats talk about building all the time...yet all you do is come on here and attack (mainly christianity)... You only seem to build with people who talk in false hood....(eg islam , buddhism taoism 5%ers ect...)
peace be with you !

no one comes in this section of wucorp and disses Christianity as a whole - no one continuously promotes their belief that Christianity is from the devil - you come in here constantly spamming about how Islam is from the devil -

we talk about self improvement - community awareness - and living cleaner more healthier lives mostly


these are your words



sunny if you think about it the blacks in american today in a thousand years or more,will become white eventually, because as each generation passes there skin will lighten, generation by generation as the climate in america isn`t hot, so they will slowly lighten and adapt to the american enviroment and eventually become white, just like cacasians did....


you must get allot of laughs after writing shit like this - you have to be playing devils advocate or something cause no one in the world, over ten years old can think like this

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 01:05 AM
children stories -
anyways, so the devil, who is already occupying hell, will be cast into his own domain.....and be tormented in his own domain for eternity...?
Gotcha.




lmmfao !

zooruka
01-13-2010, 01:10 AM
im honestly not seeing how we have a disagreement prof, pardon me
you just said sinful person who repents a second before they die (thus, NO behavior change from evil ways) = heaven
righteous person who doesn't accept jesus = eternal hellfire
is this not correct? .

The repentance is the changing of the behaviour, but if you like the good theif have no more time left to prove this, you will be saved...remember God knows all and he knows who is sincere and who isn`t.




lets say someone cures cancer, gets rid of poverty, never so much as has a negative thought their entire life, always shows peace in their ways and actions, and doesn't believe in jesus....are they NOT a righteous person in your eye?


No they are not !!!!


peace be with you !


mumm ra !

zooruka
01-13-2010, 01:12 AM
sunny if you think about it the blacks in american today in a thousand years or more,will become white eventually, because as each generation passes there skin will lighten, generation by generation as the climate in america isn`t hot, so they will slowly lighten and adapt to the american enviroment and eventually become white, just like cacasians did....


sunny prove to me that black skin isn`t a result of climate...and if you take someone out of that climate they will gradually become lighter until they become white...or if you take a white person and put them in a hot enviroment they will become darker.


prove me wrong ????


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 01:15 AM
the devil is not in hell now...he roams free to serve his purpose...but one day he will be put there.


isn't hitler in hell ?


and there is no devil there to poke him in the ass with a pitch fork

or to control the demonic minions ?


or is hitler on line with the likes of cain, nimrod, and ceasar, waiting in purgatory for the devil to get there and open the door so they can get in ?


some fanatics will say that i don't belive in all of this that because i'm not a child of god -



so if i don't take in your words as fact and start to believe that jesus died for my sins, i'm going to hell right ?

zooruka
01-13-2010, 01:16 AM
isn't hitler in hell ?


and there is no devil there to poke him in the ass with a pitch fork

or to control the demonic minions ?


or is hitler on line with the likes of cain, nimrod, and ceasar, waiting in purgatory for the devil to get there and open the door so they can get in ?


some fanatics will say that i don't belive in all of this that because i'm not a child of god -



so if i don't take in your words as fact and start to believe that jesus died for my sins, i'm going to hell right ?



The judgement hasn`t happend yet...so nobody is in hell yet.


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 01:16 AM
The repentance is the changing of the behaviour,
not even your BELIEFS will make this statement correct prof
repentance is changing of a THOUGHT
BEHAVIOR is something that is PHYSICALLY ACTED OUT OVER TIME
if you put a thought into your head a second before you die, then die, YOU HAVE NO MORE TIME FOR BEHAVIORAL CHANGE






No they are not !!!!


peace be with you !


mumm ra !
saving the world is not a righteous action
pillaging, raping, killing, enslaving, while believing in jesus is what is righteous
this is all i need to know prof - thank you for your time
i think i have the greatest understanding of where you're coming from that i could obtain

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 01:18 AM
sunny prove to me that black skin isn`t a result of climate...and if you take someone out of that climate they will gradually become lighter until they become white...or if you take a white person and put them in a hot enviroment they will become darker.


prove me wrong ????


peace be with you !

how old are you yo ?

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 01:18 AM
sunny prove to me that black skin isn`t a result of climate...and if you take someone out of that climate they will gradually become lighter until they become white...or if you take a white person and put them in a hot enviroment they will become darker.


prove me wrong ????


peace be with you !
why do polar bears have black skin?
and before you say something - they do not have white fur. it's translucent.

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 01:20 AM
this is all i need to know prof - thank you for your time
i think i have the greatest understanding of where you're coming from that i could obtain


lol - close thread ?

zooruka
01-13-2010, 01:21 AM
not even your BELIEFS will make this statement correct prof
repentance is changing of a THOUGHT
BEHAVIOR is something that is PHYSICALLY ACTED OUT OVER TIME
if you put a thought into your head a second before you die, then die, YOU HAVE NO MORE TIME FOR BEHAVIORAL CHANGE

Thats not true....and if like you say repentance is a thought process then it is a behavioural change because all thought leads to behaviour whether good or bad.






saving the world is not a righteous action
pillaging, raping, killing, enslaving, while believing in jesus is what is righteous
this is all i need to know prof - thank you for your time
i think i have the greatest understanding of where you're coming from that i could obtain

remember Jesus said not all who call me lord lord will go to heaven...So in saying this Jesus knew there would be fake christians out there...so people who do those sort of things are hypocrits and fake christians and will also be punished if deemed to be so.


peace be with you !

zooruka
01-13-2010, 01:22 AM
how old are you yo ?

sunny prove me wrong !!!!!!!!


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-13-2010, 01:26 AM
because all thought leads to behaviour whether good or bad.
not if you are dead







remember Jesus said not all who call me lord lord will go to heaven...So in saying this Jesus knew there would be fake christians out there...so people who do those sort of things are hypocrits and fake christians and will also be punished if deemed to be so.


christians can do all these things - then repent and go to heaven, thus being true christians.
i have no further questions prof. i see ey'thing. i see ey'thing.

LORD NOSE
01-13-2010, 01:33 AM
sunny prove me wrong !!!!!!!!


peace be with you !




what about the climate thing ?


you are correct

black people turn white in the snow

africans move to europe just so that their descendants can turn white

i dare you to reread all of your words and the replies to your words in this thread


i dare you

DrBold241
01-13-2010, 07:28 PM
my last question on page 2 was never answered

THE MASON
01-13-2010, 09:53 PM
Prof, so if God created everything, then this must mean he created Satan.

if God loves us so much, why would he create something to tempt us to sin?

Visionz
01-13-2010, 11:29 PM
sounds like you're talking about some mass conspiracy that doesn't actually exist.

The speed of light is a universal constant. If a star or galaxy is more than ten thousand light years away then your theory of nothing existing before the earth (based on your assumption on the earths age) is shot to shit. My statement had nothing to do with evolution.
verifiable truth ignored

WARPATH
01-14-2010, 11:52 AM
One should be wary of talking on end about such subjects as learning, morality or folklore in front of elders or people
of rank. It is disagreeable to listen to.

zooruka
01-14-2010, 07:05 PM
Prof, so if God created everything, then this must mean he created Satan.

if God loves us so much, why would he create something to tempt us to sin?


Yes God did create satan...satan according to sources and the bible was the best created thing that God made eg...In intellegencs, beauty and rank ect..., But he became blinded by his status and that lead to pride and so he wanted to kick God off the thrown and become God himself....but to answer your question God gave his creations free will and that means satan aswell, he didn`t create them to be mindless robots...and Satan and 1/3 of the angels that followed him chose to become wicked...The reason God allows this is becuse satan serves a purpose eg..testing a believers faith ect..... Also God allows him to roam free (but with limits) so he can prove to us and the angels that what satan is doing is ultimatly wrong...see if God got ride of satan and his followers instantly, the other angels and humans would think of God as a saddam hussain type figure, and if anyone disagree`s with him they are instantly dealt with...without showing them why they (satan) are wrong...and this would always in my opinion leave doubt about God and the beef, as to who was right...but by allowing satan to do his works, God can prove once and for all why choosing evil is wrong.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-14-2010, 07:54 PM
Yes God did create satan...satan according to sources and the bible was the best created thing that God made eg...In intellegencs, beauty and rank ect..., But he became blinded by his status and that lead to pride and so he wanted to kick God off the thrown and become God himself....but to answer your question God gave his creations free will and that means satan aswell, he didn`t create them to be mindless robots



it's said that the angels DO NOT have free will - man does



...and Satan and 1/3 of the angels that followed him chose to become wicked...The reason God allows this is becuse satan serves a purpose eg..testing a believers faith ect.....


testing someones faith/ asking someone questions about their faith and not being pleased is not the work of satan - that is the work of thinking men and women who want to stand on facts - a belief can put a ceiling on your progress if you don't seek out the facts - putting a ceiling on your progress is the work of satan




Also God allows him to roam free (but with limits)


limited freedom huh


so he can prove to us and the angels that what satan is doing is ultimatly wrong...



god needs to prove to us that satan is wrong


see if God got ride of satan and his followers instantly, the other angels and humans would think of God as a saddam hussain type figure,


if god got rid of satan, wouldn't that rid us of all this evilness and destruction also - isn't satan the author of evilness and destruction or did god create that too ?




and if anyone disagree`s with him that are instantly dealt with...without showing them why they (satan) are wrong...


i really wish that you would look at all of this from another angle - because there is ALOT of truth in all you're saying - it's just tainted with white supremacy and greek mythology -




and this would always in my opinion leave doubt about God and the beef as to who was right...but by allowing satan to do his works God can prove once and for all why choosing evil is wrong.


peace be with you !


so if god gets rid of satan (someone humans cannot see), how would humans know that satan is gone and that god got rid of him ?


are you saying that humans would attack god for getting rid of satan ?

FOTGF ?

LORD NOSE
01-14-2010, 07:55 PM
One should be wary of talking on end about such subjects as learning, morality or folklore in front of elders or people
of rank. It is disagreeable to listen to.


i don't understand

zooruka
01-14-2010, 09:17 PM
it's said that the angels DO NOT have free will - man does


angels have free will to...thats why they could make the decision to rebel against God...but im not sure, but I have read that angels know instantly all sides of an argument at once, so therefore they know what they are doing and if this is true this would explain why God gives humans a second chance and not angels./... that doesn`t mean they know everything but they know the pro`s and con`s of there choices...Another thing is I think God in heaven never show`s off... and was just loving and satan and the other angels mistook that for weakness.


Also God didn`t create evil.... evil is created when there is a lack of good sort of like when night is created as there is a lack of light or cold is created when there is a lack of heat.

peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-14-2010, 09:39 PM
angels have free will to...thats why they could make the decision to rebel against God...

who told you that ?

and didn't god see all of this coming before hand ?





but im not sure, but I have read that angels know instantly all sides of an argument at once, so therefore they know what they are doing and if this is true this would explain why God gives humans a second chance and not angels./... that doesn`t mean they know everything but they know the pro`s and con`s of there choices...Another thing is I think God in heaven never show`s off... and was just loving and satan and the other angels mistook that for weakness.



you are not sure - what would make you sure ?


Also God didn`t create evil.... evil is created when there is a lack of good sort of like when night is created as there is a lack of light or cold is created when there is a lack of heat.

peace be with you !







!sigh!



let's start from the beginning




8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"





i read this many many times before - but right now it's telling me something that i haven't thought about before

zooruka
01-15-2010, 01:00 AM
who told you that ?

and didn't god see all of this coming before hand ?


God knows everything...so yes he did see it coming, but allowed it to happen..because like I said he gives free will...yes even to angels ( sorry sunny but the angels have free will otherwise satan and his angels wouldn`t have been allowed or couldn`t have rebeled against God like they did)....But yes God knows everything and for saw all these events and made the appropriate counter attack battle plans.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-15-2010, 01:15 AM
where in the bible does it say that satan was an angel ?


thanks for your time

zooruka
01-15-2010, 01:27 AM
The first passage is about satan`s sin


“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.


—Isaiah 14:12-15



the second is about who satan was before his sin


'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028:11-16&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171a)] turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028:11-16&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171c)] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
[B]14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you. 16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.



Actually satan was not an angel but a cherub ....cherub are the creature around God himself...and satan was the highest (the covering cherub) which means he covered the glory of God...making him the best created thing God made in rank , beauty, and intellegance.


peace be with you sunny

p.s see I did stay outta your thread.


peace be with you !

zooruka
01-15-2010, 02:15 AM
sunny that last passage about satan is a bad translation instead of saying gaurdian cherub....it should read like this:

"Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire."


peace be with you !

Visionz
01-15-2010, 02:23 AM
sounds like you're talking about some mass conspiracy that doesn't actually exist.

The speed of light is a universal constant. If a star or galaxy is more than ten thousand light years away then your theory of nothing existing before the earth (based on your assumption on the earths age) is shot to shit. My statement had nothing to do with evolution.

why do you continue to ignore this post?

zooruka
01-15-2010, 05:27 AM
why do you continue to ignore this post?


. During the last 300 years, at least 164 separate measurements of the speed of light have been published. Sixteen different measurement techniques were used. Astronomer Barry Setterfield has studied these measurements, especially their precision and experimental errors. 1 (http://www.eylerz.net/works/lightyears.html#1)His results show that the speed of light has apparently decreased so rapidly that experimental error cannot explain it! In the seven instances where the same scientists measured the speed of light with the same equipment years later, a decrease was always reported. The decreases were often several times greater than the reported experimental errors. This author has conducted other analyses that weight (or give significance to) each measurement according to its accuracy. Even after considering the wide range of accuracies, it is hard to see how anyone can claim, with any statistical rigor, that the speed of light has remained constant.


peace be with you !

Visionz
01-15-2010, 06:03 AM
. During the last 300 years, at least 164 separate measurements of the speed of light have been published. Sixteen different measurement techniques were used. Astronomer Barry Setterfield has studied these measurements, especially their precision and experimental errors. 1 ("")His results show that the speed of light has apparently decreased so rapidly that experimental error cannot explain it! In the seven instances where the same scientists measured the speed of light with the same equipment years later, a decrease was always reported. The decreases were often several times greater than the reported experimental errors. This author has conducted other analyses that weight (or give significance to) each measurement according to its accuracy. Even after considering the wide range of accuracies, it is hard to see how anyone can claim, with any statistical rigor, that the speed of light has remained constant.


peace be with you !

this is where you show and prove your own inability to think for yourself (insomuch as actually applying the knowledge of what you are given)

If light does SLOW down as what you posted suggest this only means it has taken even longer to get here than originally persumed and is even older. This information does nothing to disprove that the earth was not the first thing ever created in the universe, it in fact does the opposite.

600 years ago you wouldve been the guy wanting to burn Galileo on a stake. Science helps to explain the wonders of God's work and the fundamentaly religious do all they can to deny it.

LORD NOSE
01-15-2010, 09:31 AM
The first passage is about satan`s sin


“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.


—Isaiah 14:12-15


so where was he when HE (it is a he right) when he was saying all of this - cause i thought that the angels reside in heaven with god

and judging by the way the world is now, i would say he was successful in placing himself in a high position if god needs an army to defeat him








the second is about who satan was before his sin


'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;


^


every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028:11-16&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171a)] turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028:11-16&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171c)] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you. 16 [B]Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.


who said that this verse is about satan ?




Actually satan was not an angel but a cherub ....cherub are the creature around God himself...and satan was the highest (the covering cherub) which means he covered the glory of God...making him the best created thing God made in rank , beauty, and intellegance.


cause she is his wife




peace be with you sunny

p.s see I did stay outta your thread.


peace be with you !


don't take it personal

i stay outa some threads also cause i don't want to taint them with my bias - sometimes i don't notice that i'm being bias -

LORD NOSE
01-15-2010, 09:38 AM
sunny that last passage about satan is a bad translation instead of saying gaurdian cherub....it should read like this:

"Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire."


peace be with you !



what did it originally read before all of the translations ?



18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:



If anyone adds anything to them,




God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy,
God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.








Revelation 20



The Thousand Years



1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.


3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.



coming down out of heaven to where ?



sounds like a very physical atercation









plus - is the serpent the same as satan ?




1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.




if the answer is yes, then satan is a wild animal




Prof Zooruka - Please - take some time out and listen to this - it's very important



YmRTcbOTKNY

THE MASON
01-15-2010, 10:00 AM
if God gave us free will, why are we restricted by laws, or justice of some form?

could it not be said, if God gave us true free will we would not be bound by such things. Would God's great plan(destiny) for each persons not become obsolete if we had true free will, for we could choose not to follow it.

there can never be free will. i would choose to defy gravity but i cannot and if it is said God created all, then i cannot have free will to break that force he so manifested. thus lacking true free will

WARPATH
01-15-2010, 01:52 PM
i don't understand

Why is zook got a question and answer thread, when we have other people here.

I was taught to respect my elders, so I refrain from flaming some of the older people here out of respect. Because I know I can learn something from them as well as the younger kids....

So I just wondering what point of this was. Zook doesn't speak for all Christians, he's just some dude that believes what he believes. The energy in this thread could be better used on Q & A with some other folks.

I could try get a real Jesuit in here to answer questions about Christianity.

BTTR KNG KOOL
01-15-2010, 02:18 PM
And catholism is not the only form of christianity anyway !!!!!!

But some of you act like its the only white peoples christianity or like its the whole christianity !!!

its Sad sad........... and its seen already !!

LORD NOSE
01-15-2010, 07:40 PM
i've learned allot in this thread - sure others have also

Zoo is handling this better than any christian i've ever got into a questions and answers cypher with

i put up the bible thread for discussion - it wasn't as detailed as this - this one here opens doors to understanding each other and respect -


who else would you have in mind to question ?

zooruka
01-16-2010, 02:40 AM
if God gave us free will, why are we restricted by laws, or justice of some form?

could it not be said, if God gave us true free will we would not be bound by such things. Would God's great plan(destiny) for each persons not become obsolete if we had true free will, for we could choose not to follow it.

there can never be free will. i would choose to defy gravity but i cannot and if it is said God created all, then i cannot have free will to break that force he so manifested. thus lacking true free will


Yes we do have free will...we have the right to choose if we want to obey the rule of law or we don`t...we have the choice and capability to choose to do anything we want whether good or bad...there is no restrictions on us when making personal decisions..that is what it means to have free will !!!!!!!!...we are not controlled like mindless robots !!!!!!!...Now this doesn`t mean God has not put in place consequences for bad choices....he has, but this does not effect free will, it is there to punish bad decisions made by free will and to provide justice...So when you say we don`t have free will because there are laws that is wrong because we are free to make decisions on whatever we want, but if we choose to do bad things, there will be consequences....otherwise if there was not, God would fail and be no better than satan because he would just sit back and allow evil to run rampid.





peace be with you !

zooruka
01-16-2010, 04:23 AM
i've learned allot in this thread - sure others have also

Zoo is handling this better than any christian i've ever got into a questions and answers cypher with

i put up the bible thread for discussion - it wasn't as detailed as this - this one here opens doors to understanding each other and respect -


who else would you have in mind to question ?


thanks sunny !!!!!!!!!


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-16-2010, 04:25 AM
now why do you think he gave us free will


what is the purpose ?

zooruka
01-16-2010, 05:03 AM
now why do you think he gave us free will


what is the purpose ?


Because he wants us to love and serve him because we choose to, not because we are forced to !!!!!!

But having said that some might say well God punishes those who don`t serve him with hell....but hell exists because there must be a consequence for doing wrong, otherwise doing evil wouldn`t be wrong and would become just another acceptable choice, because there would be no punishment, and if God where to allow this it would give people no moral ideal`s on how to conduct themselves in life, and also would condone satan and his activities, therefore leaveing God not as good God.... but a God who stands for nothing on anything and a God with no values.

peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-16-2010, 05:46 AM
how is it possible to, by nature, be free of will
and at the same time be sinful by nature?
are these not opposing natures?

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-16-2010, 05:53 AM
Because he wants us to love and serve him because we choose to, not because we are forced to !!!!!!

But having said that some might say well God punishes those who don`t serve him with hell....but hell exists because there must be a consequence for doing wrong, otherwise doing evil wouldn`t be wrong and would become just another acceptable choice, because there would be no punishment, and if God where to allow this it would give people no moral ideal`s on how to conduct themselves in life, and also would condone satan and his activities, therefore leaveing God not as good God.... but a God who stands for nothing on anything and a God with no values.

peace be with you !

...there is already consequences for doing wrong without there being a Hell. All action has consequence, this is Universal Law. What purpose does Hell serve in a Universe bound by the perfect Law of God?

HETEPU

THE MASON
01-16-2010, 10:37 AM
Yes we do have free will...we have the right to choose if we want to obey the rule of law or we don`t...we have the choice and capability to choose to do anything we want whether good or bad...there is no restrictions on us when making personal decisions..that is what it means to have free will !!!!!!!!...we are not controlled like mindless robots !!!!!!!...Now this doesn`t mean God has not put in place consequences for bad choices....he has, but this does not effect free will, it is there to punish bad decisions made by free will and to provide justice...So when you say we don`t have free will because there are laws that is wrong because we are free to make decisions on whatever we want, but if we choose to do bad things, there will be consequences....otherwise if there was not, God would fail and be no better than satan because he would just sit back and allow evil to run rampid.





peace be with you !

but what of the laws of nature? are those laws not created by God as well. as my example previously, i cannot defy gravity and thus have no choice in the matter, and since God created all he created gravity, hence i lack free will. or did God not create the laws of nature? which would put a serious dent in his existence

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-16-2010, 04:50 PM
^ I agree with Rooka on this one. You have the free will to defy gravity. Free will is the ability to make choice. The Laws of Nature do not effect your freedom to make the choice to defy gravity, just the outcome if you do.

HETEPU

zooruka
01-16-2010, 04:55 PM
^ I agree with Rooka on this one. You have the free will to defy gravity. Free will is the ability to make choice. The Laws of Nature do not effect your freedom to make the choice to defy gravity, just the outcome if you do.

HETEPU


exactly


peace falcon


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 12:18 AM
can you and have you learn/learned any thing of value from a Muslim ?

zooruka
01-17-2010, 12:25 AM
can you and have you learn/learned any thing of value from a Muslim ?



Look sunny I don`t hate muslim people, I just don`t like the religion...I have known muslims who where very nice to me but having said that so have athiest`s so I think it had nothing to do with islam..... but honestly I pray that muslims come out from islam.

But to answer your question NO !!!!!!!!!

I get my spiritual guidance from the bible....and Ill be the first to admit I don`t always get it right but I want to.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 12:28 AM
why not ?

zooruka
01-17-2010, 12:36 AM
why not ?


You really want to know why ????


It`s because I believe that everything you need is in the bible...I don`t want to learn from any other source...call me narrow minded or whatever but thats just how I feel....


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 01:37 AM
You really want to know why ????


It`s because I believe that everything you need is in the bible...I don`t want to learn from any other source...call me narrow minded or whatever but thats just how I feel....


peace be with you !

don't confuse being narrow minded with being on the straight and narrow


there is a scripture somewhere that says "in all things seek understanding"

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 01:39 AM
2 Chronicles 7:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles+7:14&version=NIV)
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:13-15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles+7:13-15&version=NIV) (in Context) 2 Chronicles 7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles+7&version=NIV) (Whole Chapter)



where are you looking ?

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 02:52 AM
plus - i have my fathers eyes cause i was born with them, not because he decided to do me a favor and put them in my eye sockets

THE MASON
01-17-2010, 12:49 PM
don't confuse being narrow minded with being on the straight and narrow


there is a scripture somewhere that says "in all things seek understanding"

:clap:

THE MASON
01-17-2010, 12:50 PM
Prof, if you someday read the Koran you will find it has a large number of parallels to the Bible, just worded differently.

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 04:39 PM
how is it possible to, by nature, be free of will
and at the same time be sinful by nature?
are these not opposing natures?
any ideas prof?
or am i wrong in that the latter is not a christian belief?

zooruka
01-17-2010, 04:59 PM
how is it possible to, by nature, be free of will
and at the same time be sinful by nature?
are these not opposing natures?


Nope they are not opposing natures...beacuse free will is the ability to make consious dicisions for yourself, by yourself on anything you wish !!!!!...but at the same time you can be sinful of nature, because you can use your free will to make sinful choices....But if you do that, you can become a slave and lose your personal freedom, because once you start to make sinful choices, you become a slave to those choices over time eg...watching porn, prostitution, commiting crimes ect.... Though your free will is not effected (because at anytime you have the ability to make the choice not to do sinful things such as listed above) your personal freedom has become ristricted by sinful behaviour.... to the extent you may find yourself in jail.


But to answer your question, they do not conflict....you can have free will and still be sinful...because like I said you can use your free will to make sinful choices.

peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 05:13 PM
i dont think you fully understood me prof
i know that you can do sinful things with a free will -
but im arguing against sinful nature
being sinful by nature means you don't have the choice of living without committing sins - in other words - no free will
you can use your free will to do sinful things...that just means you're exercising your free will, it doesn't mean your nature is now sinful (its still free)

zooruka
01-17-2010, 05:47 PM
i dont think you fully understood me prof
i know that you can do sinful things with a free will -
but im arguing against sinful nature
being sinful by nature means you don't have the choice of living without committing sins - in other words - no free will
you can use your free will to do sinful things...that just means you're exercising your free will, it doesn't mean your nature is now sinful (its still free)

mumm....Sinful nature means that in the garden of eden man chose not to follow God`s guidance but his own understanding...hence the reason why eve chose to listen to the snake and eat the apple that was forbidden and not to listen to God...and this is what makes us sinful and is a direct result of free will....


I believe when God says we are sinful it`s because man chooses to disobey his guidance in favour of his own understanding and in the process has chosen evil over good....but this still does not conflict with free will...because..... it is because of the free will that we have we became sinful...we have a choice, we have always had a choice...adam and eve had a choice, but they chose to disobey God and listen to evil, therefore making them sinful in the eyes of God, So all a sinful nature means is that we have chosen to disobey God by the chioces we make with our free will..we are not born purly evil and then we have to work at being good...it`s just we as humans seem to choose the evil over the good, or our own understanding and desires over God`s and this started with adam and eve and continues today and is what makes us sinful....but we do have a choice with the free will we have been given to counter act sinfulness, otherwise if it wasn`t like that and we are born to be evil, then the religious guidance God sends would be useless, because nobody would follow it because we wouldn`t have a choice we would all be evil and nothing you say or do could change that !!!!!!!! ...... but we do have a choice (in free will) and thats why religion was sent down so we could choose the good over the bad...therefore gettting rid of the sinful nature in us.

So they don`t conflict...because we have a choice to choose.


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 05:58 PM
so what i got out of all that is we are actually not sinful by nature
and sin only comes with lack of knowledge
im not trying to be an ass, but you can't attach any adjective to "free nature" and still have it be "free". a sinful free nature doesn't make sense.
you either have it or you don't.

and if that's the case...it would seem we only need to be saved by ourselves....

zooruka
01-17-2010, 06:10 PM
so what i got out of all that is we are actually not sinful by nature
and sin only comes with lack of knowledge
im not trying to be an ass, but you can't attach any adjective to "free nature" and still have it be "free". a sinful free nature doesn't make sense.
you either have it or you don't.

and if that's the case...it would seem we only need to be saved by ourselves....


mumm ra...It is a complicated question.....adam and eve where disobeidiant, and they passed that down to the rest of humanity...so yes we all have that dis obeidance in us...so in essance we are sinful by nature , but it`s not set in stone,because that disobeidance is not a fundemental of who we are, we have a choice whether we are disobeidiant or not... The disobeidiant`s is more like a bad habit that we have aquired and have a hard time breaking, but like I said it`s not set in stone in us we can choose to break it with our free will, if we want to....because if we couldn`t , there would be no use for religion , because the sinful nature would be apart of who we are, and there would be nothing we could do to change it..so telling us to be good and do the right thing, would be a waste of time, because we can`t...but this is not the case, we have picked up a habit (choosing evil over good), and religion was sent to break that, proving at our core we are not sinful, we have just chossen to be that way.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 06:21 PM
.....adam and eve where disobeidiant,


what were their real names ?


what name did Jesus's mother call him by ?






Matthew 27:46 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:46&version=NIV)
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Matthew 27:45-47 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:45-47&version=NIV) (in Context) Matthew 27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27&version=NIV) (Whole Chapter)








why has god forsaken the other god ?

zooruka
01-17-2010, 06:25 PM
what were their real names ?


what name did Jesus's mother call him by ?






Matthew 27:46 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:46&version=NIV)
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Matthew 27:45-47 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27:45-47&version=NIV) (in Context) Matthew 27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27&version=NIV) (Whole Chapter)








why has god forsaken the other god ?


adam and eve where called adam and eve.....also when Jesus says why has thou forsaken me, he means why has God left him alone.


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 06:26 PM
.but this is not the case, we have picked up a habit (choosing evil over good), and religion was sent to break that, proving at our core we are not sinful, we have just chossen to be that way.

great -
so what if we break that...?
no more use for religion?
you do understand that people can break that without religion already..yes?
so yes we all have that dis obeidance in us...so in essance we are sinful by nature ,
we all have good in us - does that make us good by nature too?
but it`s not set in stone,because that disobeidance is not a fundemental of who we are
i guess i just don't understand how these last two quotes make sense together. but okay.
proving at our core we are not sinful
okay, so we are not sinful by nature.

zooruka
01-17-2010, 06:31 PM
great -
so what if we break that...?
no more use for religion?
you do understand that people can break that without religion already..yes?

we all have good in us - does that make us good by nature too?

i guess i just don't understand how these last two quotes make sense together. but okay.

okay, so we are not sinful by nature.


mumm ra........we are sinful by nature because we choose evil over good...but at our core level we are not born to be sinful because we can choose if we want to be sinful or not, it`s not an automatic given to be sinful...like your claiming it to be.


Also... Nobody can break the sinful behaviour without religion...you can count on that.


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 06:36 PM
adam and eve where called adam and eve.....




lmao - by who ?





also when Jesus says why has thou forsaken me, he means why has God left him alone.


peace be with you !

i know what forsaken means - when i read the bible in full, i would read some of the lines very very slow and sometime 2 or three times, and i had one of them big ole old ass webster dictionaries with me



according to you, jesus is god and was there since the beginning of time with god when he created the earth - so he should have known he'd be on that tree - so what was he crying for - a god crying to another god asking him why have you forgotten me ..........doesn't make any sense


when Jesus's moms called him in the house for dinner, what did she call him ?

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 06:37 PM
mumm ra........we are sinful by nature because we choose evil over good...
i can only hope you come to the realization that this makes absolutely no logical sense....there's not much more i can do myself to make you come to that fact.
no matter what you believe - you can't have a sinful free nature.


Also... Nobody can break the sinful behaviour without religion...you can count on that.

I did.

zooruka
01-17-2010, 06:41 PM
mumm ra....it`s like your a criminal you choose to committ crime, but you where not born that way, you chose to become like that, so it`s not fundementally who you are, it`s what you have choosen to become...same with our sinful nature,we have chosen to become like that, but the criminal behaviour like the sinful nature can be broke at any time you choose...you just have to make that choice with your free will...proving that we are not really sinful by nature at our core level or a criminal.


peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 06:46 PM
same with our sinful nature,we have chosen to become like that
so we choose what our nature is
.you just have to make that choice with your free will...proving that we are not really sinful by nature at our core level or a criminal.

couldn't have said it better
Nobody can break the sinful behaviour without religion...you can count on that. I did.please don't overlook this truth prof zooruka, as you are incorrect.

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 06:46 PM
if there is a god and a devil, them 2 right there are are greatest grandparents - think differently

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 06:52 PM
I can dig it.

battle?
01-17-2010, 06:56 PM
dear proof?
how many wins will the detroit lions an newyork mets get next year?

zooruka
01-17-2010, 07:51 PM
so we choose what our nature is.


Yes and no....


we can choose what our nature becomes, by the choices we make...eg an man who chooses to do criminal activities, becomes a criminal by nature, but at the same time like I said, it`s not set in stone, because that man was not born that way, he chose to become like that through his choices,so where ever a choice is made that effects your nature, it can always be reversed with an alternative choice and proves that at there core level they where not made to be that way.... same with adam and eve they where not made with a sinful nature as shown in the bible, they became that way after the choice they made (which was to disobey God and choose evil)...So while after the choice human`s became sinful in nature,because we inherited our parents disobeidance, it is not intrinsically who we are at the core level, and therefore can be changed....and like I said this is proven by God giving religion, because if man was always sinful and born that way, religious guidance would be usless, because we couldn`t change who we are because we are born that way, but that is not the case with humans, we became sinful through choice not because that is who we are, and there for we can change.


The real saying should be our nature has become corrupted...not we are that way.
\
please don't overlook this truth prof zooruka, as you are incorrect.


mumm ra ...I doubt you are pure in the sight of God, without religion...only God knows what is good and bad, you may think you are good because you proabably don`t steal or kill ect.... but God knows your heart and your mind, you probably watch porn, have pre marital sex, tell lies, masturbate ect.......and think you are still good hahahah lolz.


Im not judging you mumm ra or condeming you...all Im saying is you think with your attitude, that you know more than God and don`t need his advice to be living right...Now I ask you this !!!!!! who do you think knows more the creator or the created....humble yourself mumm ra, and accept the wisdom of the almight GOD !!!!!!!!



Oh .... If your gonna give me some speach about how religion is man made to controlle the masses and you don`t need it to follow God, save it..because we will never agree.

peace mumm ra

peace be with you !

Mumm Ra
01-17-2010, 08:03 PM
i have to make this short cuz i gotta leave.....


mumm ra ...I doubt you are pure in the sight of God, without religion...only God knows what is good and bad, you may think you are good because you proabably don`t steal or kill ect.... but God knows your heart and your mind, you probably watch porn, have pre marital sex, tell lies, masturbate ect.......and think you are still good hahahah lolz.
im not perfect - never claim to be
nor are you
but you said that you cannot get rid of sinful behavior without religion - when i unquestionably have.
not ALL of it, but I've rid myself of more things than I'm sure I could have with religion
you can't go against that - ive experienced it


Im not judging you mumm ra or condeming you...all Im saying is you think with your attitude, that you know more than God and don`t need his advice to be living right...please don't ass-ume and put your words in my mouth -
i never claimed any of that, and i never said i dont need god to be living right
to get right to the point - i think just the opposite of all you just said i supposedly think

Now I ask you this !!!!!! who do you think knows more the creator or the created....humble yourself mumm ra, and accept the wisdom of the almight GOD !!!!!!!!
who do you think knows more, god or a book?
and do you think going through a book to get to god is more necessary than going straight to god?
i seek god's wisdom everyday zooruka, don't be arrogant and ignorant
and i was made in its image


Oh .... If your gonna give me some speach about how religion is man made to controlle the masses and you don`t need it to follow God, save it..because we will never agree.
god doesn't exist within a book

peace zoo ill try to address more later

zooruka
01-17-2010, 08:05 PM
^^^^^^

peace be with you !

mumm ra

zooruka
01-17-2010, 08:28 PM
i have to make this short cuz i gotta leave.....

im not perfect - never claim to be
nor are you
but you said that you cannot get rid of sinful behavior without religion - when i unquestionably have.
not ALL of it, but I've rid myself of more things than I'm sure I could have with religion
you can't go against that - ive experienced it

Yeah but mumm ra...what is your basis for right and wrong if you don`t follow religion....what you just imagine what is right or wrong in your own mind ??????? or you get it from secular law ???? well sorry but even secular laws have there basis in religion...so I ask you mumm ra what is your basis for right and wrong and a moral standard if you do it without religion.... I just can`t see where else you could be getting your foundation from ?????.



who do you think knows more, god or a book?
i seek god's wisdom everyday zooruka, don't be arrogant and ignorant
and i was made in its image


god doesn't exist within a book

The book is God`s words mumm ra.


How else does God exist ???? what your going to tell me you have a direct line to God or he sends you pm`s ????? I don`t disagree that God can speak to your heart and mind when he needs to reveal somthing to you, but God primaryly sets his standards and wishes in religion, wich comes in written book form !!!!!....what you are saying really is that God who established religion in a book is wrong and you are right, because you believe he doesn`t exist in a book !!!!! not to mention forsaking thousands of years of history and people who directly encountered God and wrote what they heard and saw....sorry mumm ra now it is you who is being arrogant.


anyway peace


peace be with you !

spiggity_ace
01-17-2010, 08:59 PM
LOL god sendign pms

Mumm Ra
01-18-2010, 03:35 AM
Yeah but mumm ra...what is your basis for right and wrong if you don`t follow religion....what you just imagine what is right or wrong in your own mind ??????? or you get it from secular law ???? well sorry but even secular laws have there basis in religion...so I ask you mumm ra what is your basis for right and wrong and a moral standard if you do it without religion.... I just can`t see where else you could be getting your foundation from ?????.



The book is God`s words mumm ra.


How else does God exist ???? what your going to tell me you have a direct line to God or he sends you pm`s ????? I don`t disagree that God can speak to your heart and mind when he needs to reveal somthing to you, but God primaryly sets his standards and wishes in religion, wich comes in written book form !!!!!....what you are saying really is that God who established religion in a book is wrong and you are right, because you believe he doesn`t exist in a book !!!!! not to mention forsaking thousands of years of history and people who directly encountered God and wrote what they heard and saw....sorry mumm ra now it is you who is being arrogant.

i always have trouble transcribing my understanding of god into symbols (words) for others to understand but I'll do my best for you -

everything in the universe is predicated by law.
I'm not talking authoritative law (the ten commandments), but laws that would be true whether we are here to witness them or not.
atoms are made up of protons, electrons, and a nucleus - this is law.
Even the godless person can see the beginning of the universe (big bang?) was not a chaotic random event, but followed strict mathematical law (the makeup of atoms -> molecules -> elements -> )

so now - we have god that made everything according to his wisdom (law) ......
plants/ animals/ nature have no need to intuit god's wisdom (law) as they automatically follow god's laws (nature)
now up to this point - it would be absurd to think everything in the universe is subject to law, except for man's life (including "right & wrong")
though the exception is that man has free will, but it doesn't mean he can't live by god's wisdom (nature/ law) especially if he is the image of god

the fact that you can understand "god's words" from the bible is a testament that man is able to intuit (learn from within) god's wisdom (right from wrong)
have you not ever learned something that wasn't first told to you???

if I am made in the image of god (same attributes) and I have the knowledge of good and evil from the tree of life, there is no reason to think it's impossible to intuit right from wrong without reading about it first.

How do you think the Ancient Egyptians (Kamau) established a moral system (that is much more advanced than "jesus' teachings") BEFORE "jesus" ever made ANY appearance on earth??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat#42_Negative_Confessions_.28Papyrus_of_Ani.29
THEY INTUITED GOD'S WISDOM - just as ANYBODY can
(interestingly enough they called god 'NETER'.....i think this is where the word 'nature' comes from)

its not so much god talking to people as it is people opening themselves up to his frequency - and the frequency (law) never shuts off, or is privy to lending itself to one person over the next. it just is.

if you want to believe the ONLY way a person can be moral is to read what other men wrote down in a book - you go ahead and believe that.

if you want to believe that god only made an appearance on his ONLY living planet in the universe for a couple hundred years, then left the ONLY evidence of himself as words in a book to a handful of people two thousand years ago - so that anybody who does not read this book will have NO knowledge of his presence - you go ahead and believe that too.

even a two year old who can't grasp any intellectual concept knows not to attempt to kill it's mother

i think it's pretty ridiculous to think god is everywhere and inside everything, yet think god is imperceptible except when reading the words of man

Mumm Ra
01-18-2010, 03:50 AM
Yes and no....


we can choose what our nature becomes, by the choices we make...eg an man who chooses to do criminal activities, becomes a criminal by nature, but at the same time like I said, it`s not set in stone, because that man was not born that way, he chose to become like that through his choices,so where ever a choice is made that effects your nature, it can always be reversed with an alternative choice and proves that at there core level they where not made to be that way.... same with adam and eve they where not made with a sinful nature as shown in the bible, they became that way after the choice they made (which was to disobey God and choose evil)...So while after the choice human`s became sinful in nature,because we inherited our parents disobeidance, it is not intrinsically who we are at the core level, and therefore can be changed....and like I said this is proven by God giving religion, because if man was always sinful and born that way, religious guidance would be usless, because we couldn`t change who we are because we are born that way, but that is not the case with humans, we became sinful through choice not because that is who we are, and there for we can change.



after all this -
i really have no clue as to why you are even arguing against my testament that man is not sinful by nature
all you've been doing is reaffirming it for me
and besides im not sure you even know what the word "nature" means, I think you are making up definitions of it as you go -
the nature of something doesn't change. it is it's underlying functions -

the nature that can be changed is not nature - it's a conditioning.

if a person chooses to be a criminal - that is a superimposed conditioning (on top of their free nature!) that can change at any given time, it's not their nature

So while after the choice human`s became sinful in nature,because we inherited our parents disobeidance it is not intrinsically who we are at the core level, and therefore can be changedlol - honestly zooruka - you're not even arguing with me, you're confirming my statements, I really don't know why you keep it up
just tell me humans aren't sinful by nature already lol

Edgar Erebus
01-18-2010, 07:06 AM
I just read the first page for now, but I already have few queston (hope they're not already answered):

Because that is how God roles...look in the old testement when the jews where in eygpt, and God wanted to set them free..he said to the jews take a lamb and kill it and put the blood on the top of your doors and on your door posts..so when the anger of God came over eygpt and he was going to kill all the first born sons of eygpt , the angle of death would see the blood on the jewish doors and pass over them and not harm the jews..Now in the new testement Jesus became that lamb so when he died all who believe in him and follow him will have his blood on them so when God`s anger comes he will pass over all those who believe in Jesus because they have his blood on them (metaphorically) and escape punishment, also to in the old testement when people sinned they use to sacrifice animals to be abolished of there sins usually a lamb, So God sent jesus as a lamb (that is why he is called the lamb of God) to replace the animal sacrifices and to die once and for all for the sins of mankind , basically he was the ultimate lamb sacrifice.

1. They taught me, as a good Catholic, that God is good and forgiving. Then why did he kill all those babies - yeah, babies, who didn't have any way of hearing the word of God? And how is he good if he did something evil and unfair as that? And why did he warn only a small group of people and not, at least, Egypt's poor class (there was one, for example they were main builders of pyramids) who were working as hard as Jews and had nothing to do with them being oppressed? Why didn't, at least, they get a notice and message to start believing?

2. Why lamb? What does he get from that? You sin and sin and sin, then you kill an animal on top of that and that counts as a good deed?

3. Not only the men who crucifed Jesus, but basically the whole world except for a certain dozen (one of whom was a traitor, second a coward, third a non-believer [and I like the third guy the most, although the cowardly one seemed like the best guy to roll a fat one with]) killed Jesus as a straight up criminal. Basically, that dozen were the only ones who had nothing to do with him being killed. So how does that count as sacrifice? By my understanding, to make that work, the apostles should slit J.C.'s throat and make a bonefire to have their sins forgiven, 'cause everyone of them was quite full of them, like any other person.

THE MASON
01-18-2010, 09:54 AM
i always have trouble transcribing my understanding of god into symbols (words) for others to understand but I'll do my best for you -

everything in the universe is predicated by law.
I'm not talking authoritative law (the ten commandments), but laws that would be true whether we are here to witness them or not.
atoms are made up of protons, electrons, and a nucleus - this is law.
Even the godless person can see the beginning of the universe (big bang?) was not a chaotic random event, but followed strict mathematical law (the makeup of atoms -> molecules -> elements -> )

so now - we have god that made everything according to his wisdom (law) ......
plants/ animals/ nature have no need to intuit god's wisdom (law) as they automatically follow god's laws (nature)
now up to this point - it would be absurd to think everything in the universe is subject to law, except for man's life (including "right & wrong")
though the exception is that man has free will, but it doesn't mean he can't live by god's wisdom (nature/ law) especially if he is the image of god

the fact that you can understand "god's words" from the bible is a testament that man is able to intuit (learn from within) god's wisdom (right from wrong)
have you not ever learned something that wasn't first told to you???

if I am made in the image of god (same attributes) and I have the knowledge of good and evil from the tree of life, there is no reason to think it's impossible to intuit right from wrong without reading about it first.

How do you think the Ancient Egyptians (Kamau) established a moral system (that is much more advanced than "jesus' teachings") BEFORE "jesus" ever made ANY appearance on earth??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat#42_Negative_Confessions_.28Papyrus_of_Ani.29
THEY INTUITED GOD'S WISDOM - just as ANYBODY can
(interestingly enough they called god 'NETER'.....i think this is where the word 'nature' comes from)

its not so much god talking to people as it is people opening themselves up to his frequency - and the frequency (law) never shuts off, or is privy to lending itself to one person over the next. it just is.

if you want to believe the ONLY way a person can be moral is to read what other men wrote down in a book - you go ahead and believe that.

if you want to believe that god only made an appearance on his ONLY living planet in the universe for a couple hundred years, then left the ONLY evidence of himself as words in a book to a handful of people two thousand years ago - so that anybody who does not read this book will have NO knowledge of his presence - you go ahead and believe that too.

even a two year old who can't grasp any intellectual concept knows not to attempt to kill it's mother

i think it's pretty ridiculous to think god is everywhere and inside everything, yet think god is imperceptible except when reading the words of man

this is basically my views as well, i do disagree with a thing or two but essentially this is my outlook.

one problem i have always had is, how can ALL civilizations go from having a polythestic view on God(s) or hold a supreme leader as the Son of God but then completely change there views to a monistic outlook, and so relentlessy credit this world to a singular entity, as being the only "true" way.

i guess i am more of a pagan when it comes to God(s), as i believe that there are so many things it would take multiple amount of deities to create this world. I also try to incorporate all beliefs into my own sphere of knowledge.

Mumm Ra
01-18-2010, 03:31 PM
one problem i have always had is, how can ALL civilizations go from having a polythestic view on God(s) or hold a supreme leader as the Son of God but then completely change there views to a monistic outlook, and so relentlessy credit this world to a singular entity, as being the only "true" way.

i guess i am more of a pagan when it comes to God(s), as i believe that there are so many things it would take multiple amount of deities to create this world. I also try to incorporate all beliefs into my own sphere of knowledge.
damn - check out Metu Neter, book on egyptian spirituality
it actually is exactly what you described - one god working through a multitude of faculties (deities)

THE MASON
01-18-2010, 06:27 PM
i will definitely check that out, thanks Ra

zooruka
01-18-2010, 07:59 PM
I just read the first page for now, but I already have few queston (hope they're not already answered):



1. They taught me, as a good Catholic, that God is good and forgiving. Then why did he kill all those babies - yeah, babies, who didn't have any way of hearing the word of God? And how is he good if he did something evil and unfair as that? And why did he warn only a small group of people and not, at least, Egypt's poor class (there was one, for example they were main builders of pyramids) who were working as hard as Jews and had nothing to do with them being oppressed? Why didn't, at least, they get a notice and message to start believing?

2. Why lamb? What does he get from that? You sin and sin and sin, then you kill an animal on top of that and that counts as a good deed?

3. Not only the men who crucifed Jesus, but basically the whole world except for a certain dozen (one of whom was a traitor, second a coward, third a non-believer [and I like the third guy the most, although the cowardly one seemed like the best guy to roll a fat one with]) killed Jesus as a straight up criminal. Basically, that dozen were the only ones who had nothing to do with him being killed. So how does that count as sacrifice? By my understanding, to make that work, the apostles should slit J.C.'s throat and make a bonefire to have their sins forgiven, 'cause everyone of them was quite full of them, like any other person.


Firstly this is not for you to decide !!!!!!, God is morally rightous more than you will ever be !!!!!!!!!.....he is more against killing than anyone, but ultimately he is the only one who can decide who lives and who die`s because he made everything and his judgement is ALWAYS correct !!!!!!...secondly how do you know that the eygptian poor class was involved in being slaves along with the jews...as far as the bible is concerned the jews where the only ones who where forced to be slaves and do hard labour for there eygptian masters...and as far as we can tell every eygptian in the land approved of this treatment of the jews, so they where all probably equally to balme....


Again...who are we to make judgements about what is pleasing to God and what is not, He saw fit in ancient times to use animal sacrifices to forgive sins,and who are we to criticize this.... Animal sacrifices must have served a purpose in God`s eyes, but after he saw no more need to use it, he put a stop to this , which happend after Jesus came (who was the ultimate sacrifice).



lastly....you say everyone was complicite in the death of Jesus except the disciples....and in a way you are correct we are all to blame for the death of jesus even you and me , because he came to die so our sins could be forgiven and that is why it was a sacrifice !!!!!! because he didn`t do anything wrong and still had to die...but if you actually go back and re read the bible you will see it was the sanhedrin (the jews religious leaders) who wanted jesus dead...and also satan and his army.....and only a few jewish people...but like I said if you read the bible you will see that alot of jews believed in jesus ....just read about his triumphant enterance in jerusalem and what the poeple where doing and shouting about him....Also you called the disciples names, like coward and doubter...( and you are right about judas he was a traitor ) but the rest where good men and I would like to see what you would be like if you where in there shoes and in there postion facing death ect....... ????? Also in the end all of them where heroic because they all went to there deaths for the cause, even though they where innocent and that take a brave man i.m.o...so really you shouldn`t judge what you don`t know.


Look im not having a go at you and you are entitled to your opinion ...I just think you are quick to criticize and judge God and religion...without really knowing all the facts.


anway peace


peace be with you !

THE MASON
01-18-2010, 10:06 PM
Firstly this is not for you to decide !!!!!!, God is morally rightous more than you will ever be !!!!!!!!!.....he is more against killing than anyone, but ultimately he is the only one who can decide who lives and who die`s because he made everything and his judgement is ALWAYS correct !!!!!!...secondly how do you know that the eygptian poor class was involved in being slaves along with the jews...as far as the bible is concerned the jews where the only ones who where forced to be slaves and do hard labour for there eygptian masters...and as far as we can tell every eygptian in the land approved of this treatment of the jews, so they where all probably equally to balme...

theres large archeological work done that shows lower class egyptians were most likely workers and in fact, they were not slaves. neither were the jews actually. discoveries show that most men worked in return they were exempt from taxes, sorta like the feudal system(ironically, manifested by Christian empires). Most likely these Jews occupied the area in northern egypt and were amongst some of the wealthest, even fought for egypt. but when egypt was conquered the new rulers(Hittites, i believe) they enacted such things as slavery, and they dont coincide with dates in the bible and archeology. this is just to my knowledge, i may be wrong, not because of the bible though

Again...who are we to make judgements about what is pleasing to God and what is not, He saw fit in ancient times to use animal sacrifices to forgive sins,and who are we to criticize this.... Animal sacrifices must have served a purpose in God`s eyes, but after he saw no more need to use it, he put a stop to this , which happend after Jesus came (who was the ultimate sacrifice).

again, not all religions sacrificed to the Christian ideal of God. Hindus sacrificed bulls to numerous Gods, as did ancient Greeks, Romans and other Indo Europeans.


lastly....you say everyone was complicite in the death of Jesus except the disciples....and in a way you are correct we are all to blame for the death of jesus even you and me , because he came to die so our sins could be forgiven and that is why it was a sacrifice !!!!!! because he didn`t do anything wrong and still had to die...but if you actually go back and re read the bible you will see it was the sanhedrin (the jews religious leaders) who wanted jesus dead...and also satan and his army.....and only a few jewish people...but like I said if you read the bible you will see that alot of jews believed in jesus ....just read about his triumphant enterance in jerusalem and what the poeple where doing and shouting about him....Also you called the disciples names, like coward and doubter...( and you are right about judas he was a traitor ) but the rest where good men and I would like to see what you would be like if you where in there shoes and in there postion facing death ect....... ????? Also in the end all of them where heroic because they all went to there deaths for the cause, even though they where innocent and that take a brave man i.m.o...so really you shouldn`t judge what you don`t know.

what about soldiers then? would they we considered disciples? and wouldnt that be a direct contradiction of traditional Christian beliefs, one of non violence?

Look im not having a go at you and you are entitled to your opinion ...I just think you are quick to criticize and judge God and religion...without really knowing all the facts.

Just like you criticize Islam without knowing all the facts? The bible cant tell you the Koran is wrong, only if you read the Koran can you decide if it is wrong for you. Practise what you preach!!!

Dr. Green Lungs
01-21-2010, 01:40 PM
Who created the dinosaurs?

THE MASON
01-22-2010, 09:13 AM
Prof, how do you define what it is that makes use "human beings", something separate from the animals?

or are we just a higher form of animal? if so, what makes us this higher form?

zooruka
01-22-2010, 04:59 PM
Prof, how do you define what it is that makes use "human beings", something separate from the animals?

or are we just a higher form of animal? if so, what makes us this higher form?


Because we are made in the image of God.


Peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-30-2010, 03:53 PM
John 14:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:12&version=NIV)
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 14:11-13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:11-13&version=NIV) (in Context) John 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14&version=NIV) (Whole Chapter)


how can one do greater things if they are stuck feeling like an unworthy servant ?

zooruka
02-02-2010, 04:32 PM
John 14:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:12&version=NIV)
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 14:11-13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14:11-13&version=NIV) (in Context) John 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14&version=NIV) (Whole Chapter)


how can one do greater things if they are stuck feeling like an unworthy servant ?

It is true we as followers in christ do have power to do great things, but the devil has tried to keep us in a state of uselessness, so we don`t use our rights, but when jesus says those who have faith in him, will do greater things he means those who truly believe...and this was proven with the disciples who healed the sick and cast out demons....The reson these things don`t happen today is because, peoples faith is weak and like I said the devil through modern concepts has lead people to believe that the things in the bible only happend back then and are not relevant in todays modern world or even worse they are false also I believe that the devil has set up society aswell so that if people do try to do those things they will be labled a nut job because society has been set up to explain everything with medical science.....this is why people don`t cast out demons or curer the sick today...but that is not to say that these things don`t still happen or are not still possible or relevant...they are !!!!! but the majority of people do not have the faith, but I believe that if a person comes along with real faith he or she could do the things that jesus described....

peace be with you !

WARPATH
02-02-2010, 04:42 PM
damn - check out Metu Neter, book on egyptian spirituality
it actually is exactly what you described - one god working through a multitude of faculties (deities)

Which is also similar to Lakota Theology.

HOTEP

LORD NOSE
02-02-2010, 08:44 PM
It is true we as followers in christ do have power to do great things, but the devil has tried to keep us in a state of uselessness, so we don`t use our rights, but when jesus says those who have faith in him, will do greater things he means those who truly believe...and this was proven with the disciples who healed the sick and cast out demons....The reson these things don`t happen today is because, peoples faith is weak and like I said the devil through modern concepts has lead people to believe that the things in the bible only happend back then and are not relevant in todays modern world or even worse they are false also I believe that the devil has set up society aswell so that if people do try to do those things they will be labled a nut job because society has been set up to explain everything with medical science.....this is why people don`t cast out demons or curer the sick today...but that is not to say that these things don`t still happen or are not still possible or relevant...they are !!!!! but the majority of people do not have the faith, but I believe that if a person comes along with real faith he or she could do the things that jesus described....

peace be with you !

your faith seems to be very strong - and so are many others