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Art Vandelay
01-16-2010, 08:16 PM
http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm

In an 1856 letter to his wife Mary Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee called slavery "a moral and political evil." Yet he concluded that black slaves were immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially and physically.

The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

To return to the census figures quoted above, this 28 percent is certainly impressive when compared to less than 1.4 percent of all American whites and less than 4.8 percent of southern whites. The statistics show that, when free, blacks disproportionately became slave masters.

The majority of slaveholders, white and black, owned only one to five slaves. More often than not, and contrary to a century and a half of bullwhips-on-tortured-backs propaganda, black and white masters worked and ate alongside their charges; be it in house, field or workshop. The few individuals who owned 50 or more slaves were confined to the top one percent, and have been defined as slave magnates.

In 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another Negro slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 (3). That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 (4).

In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860 125 free Negroes owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free Negroes in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings (5). In North Carolina 69 free Negroes were slave owners (6).

In 1860 William Ellison was South Carolina's largest Negro slaveowner. In Black Masters. A Free Family of Color in the Old South, authors Michael P. Johnson and James L. Roak write a sympathetic account of Ellison's life. From Ellison's birth as a slave to his death at 71, the authors attempt to provide justification, based on their own speculation, as to why a former slave would become a magnate slave master.

At birth he was given the name April. A common practice among slaves of the period was to name a child after the day or month of his or her birth. Between 1800 and 1802 April was purchased by a white slave-owner named William Ellison. Apprenticed at 12, he was taught the trades of carpentry, blacksmithing and machining, as well as how to read, write, cipher and do basic bookkeeping.

On June 8, 1816, William Ellison appeared before a magistrate (with five local freeholders as supporting witnesses) to gain permission to free April, now 26 years of age. In 1800 the South Carolina legislature had set out in detail the procedures for manumission. To end the practice of freeing unruly slaves of "bad or depraved" character and those who "from age or infirmity" were incapacitated, the state required that an owner testify under oath to the good character of the slave he sought to free. Also required was evidence of the slave's "ability to gain a livelihood in an honest way."

Although lawmakers of the time could not envision the incredibly vast public welfare structures of a later age, these stipulations became law in order to prevent slaveholders from freeing individuals who would become a burden on the general public.

Interestingly, considering today's accounts of life under slavery, authors Johnson and Roak report instances where free Negroes petitioned to be allowed to become slaves; this because they were unable to support themselves.

Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia (University Press of Virginia-1995) was written by Ervin L. Jordan Jr., an African-American and assistant professor and associate curator of the Special Collections Department, University of Virginia library. He wrote: "One of the more curious aspects of the free black existence in Virginia was their ownership of slaves. Black slave masters owned members of their family and freed them in their wills. Free blacks were encouraged to sell themselves into slavery and had the right to choose their owner through a lengthy court procedure."

In 1816, shortly after his manumission, April moved to Stateburg. Initially he hired slave workers from local owners. When in 1817 he built a gin for Judge Thomas Watries, he credited the judge nine dollars "for hire of carpenter George for 12 days." By 1820 he had purchased two adult males to work in his shop (7). In fewer than four years after being freed, April demonstrated that he had no problem perpetuating an institution he had been released from. He also achieved greater monetary success than most white people of the period.

On June 20, 1820, April appeared in the Sumter District courthouse in Sumterville. Described in court papers submitted by his attorney as a "freed yellow man of about 29 years of age," he requested a name change because it "would yet greatly advance his interest as a tradesman." A new name would also "save him and his children from degradation and contempt which the minds of some do and will attach to the name April." Because "of the kindness" of his former master and as a "Mark of gratitude and respect for him" April asked that his name be changed to William Ellison. His request was granted.

In time the black Ellison family joined the predominantly white Episcopalian church. On August 6, 1824 he was allowed to put a family bench on the first floor, among those of the wealthy white families. Other blacks, free and slave, and poor whites sat in the balcony. Another wealthy Negro family would later join the first floor worshippers.

Between 1822 and the mid-1840s, Ellison gradually built a small empire, acquiring slaves in increasing numbers. He became one of South Carolina's major cotton gin manufacturers, selling his machines as far away as Mississippi. From February 1817 until the War Between the States commenced, his business advertisements appeared regularly in newspapers across the state. These included the Camden Gazette, the Sumter Southern Whig and the Black River Watchman.

Ellison was so successful, due to his utilization of cheap slave labor, that many white competitors went out of business. Such situations discredit impressions that whites dealt only with other whites. Where money was involved, it was apparent that neither Ellison's race or former status were considerations.

In his book, Ervin L. Jordan Jr. writes that, as the great conflagration of 1861-1865 approached: "Free Afro-Virginians were a nascent black middle class under siege, but several acquired property before and during the war. Approximately 169 free blacks owned 145,976 acres in the counties of Amelia, Amherst, Isle of Wight, Nansemond, Prince William and Surry, averaging 870 acres each. Twenty-rune Petersburg blacks each owned property worth $1,000 and continued to purchase more despite the war."

Jordan offers an example: "Gilbert Hunt, a Richmond ex-slave blacksmith, owned two slaves, a house valued at $1,376, and $500 in other properties at his death in 1863." Jordan wrote that "some free black residents of Hampton and Norfolk owned property of considerable value; 17 black Hamptonians possessed property worth a total of $15,000. Thirty-six black men paid taxes as heads of families in Elizabeth City County and were employed as blacksmiths, bricklayers, fishermen, oystermen and day laborers. In three Norfolk County parishes 160 blacks owned a total of $41,158 in real estate and personal property.

The general practice of the period was that plantation owners would buy seed and equip~ ment on credit and settle their outstanding accounts when the annual cotton crop was sold. Ellison, like all free Negroes, could resort to the courts for enforcement of the terms of contract agreements. Several times Ellison successfully sued white men for money owed him.

In 1838 Ellison purchased on time 54.5 acres adjoining his original acreage from one Stephen D. Miller. He moved into a large home on the property. What made the acquisition notable was that Miller had served in the South Carolina legislature, both in the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate, and while a resident of Stateburg had been governor of the state. Ellison's next door neighbor was Dr. W.W. Anderson, master of "Borough House, a magnificent 18th Century mansion. Anderson's son would win fame in the War Between the States as General "Fighting Dick" Anderson.

By 1847 Ellison owned over 350 acres, and more than 900 by 1860. He raised mostly cotton, with a small acreage set aside for cultivating foodstuffs to feed his family and slaves. In 1840 he owned 30 slaves, and by 1860 he owned 63. His sons, who lived in homes on the property, owned an additional nine slaves. They were trained as gin makers by their father (8). They had spent time in Canada, where many wealthy American Negroes of the period sent their children for advanced formal education. Ellison's sons and daughters married mulattos from Charleston, bringing them to the Ellison plantation to live.

In 1860 Ellison greatly underestimated his worth to tax assessors at $65,000. Even using this falsely stated figure, this man who had been a slave 44 years earlier had achieved great financial success. His wealth outdistanced 90 percent of his white neighbors in Sumter District. In the entire state, only five percent owned as much real estate as Ellison. His wealth was 15 times greater than that of the state's average for whites. And Ellison owned more slaves than 99 percent of the South's slaveholders.

Although a successful businessman and cotton farmer, Ellison's major source of income derived from being a "slave breeder." Slave breeding was looked upon with disgust throughout the South, and the laws of most southern states forbade the sale of slaves under the age of 12. In several states it was illegal to sell inherited slaves (9). Nevertheless, in 1840 Ellison secretly began slave breeding.

While there was subsequent investment return in raising and keeping young males, females were not productive workers in his factory or his cotton fields. As a result, except for a few females he raised to become "breeders," Ellison sold the female and many of the male children born to his female slaves at an average price of $400. Ellison had a reputation as a harsh master. His slaves were said to be the district's worst fed and clothed. On his property was located a small, windowless building where he would chain his problem slaves.

As with the slaves of his white counterparts, occasionally Ellison's slaves ran away. The historians of Sumter District reported that from time to time Ellison advertised for the return of his runaways. On at least one occasion Ellison hired the services of a slave catcher. According to an account by Robert N. Andrews, a white man who had purchased a small hotel in Stateburg in the 1820s, Ellison hired him to run down "a valuable slave. Andrews caught the slave in Belleville, Virginia. He stated: "I was paid on returning home $77.50 and $74 for expenses.

William Ellison died December 5, 1861. His will stated that his estate should pass into the joint hands of his free daughter and his two surviving sons. He bequeathed $500 to the slave daughter he had sold.

Following in their father's footsteps, the Ellison family actively supported the Confederacy throughout the war. They converted nearly their entire plantation to the production of corn, fodder, bacon, corn shucks and cotton for the Confederate armies. They paid $5,000 in taxes during the war. They also invested more than $9,000 in Confederate bonds, treasury notes and certificates in addition to the Confederate currency they held. At the end, all this valuable paper became worthless.

The younger Ellisons contributed more than farm produce, labor and money to the Confederate cause. On March 27, 1863 John Wilson Buckner, William Ellison's oldest grandson, enlisted in the 1st South Carolina Artillery. Buckner served in the company of Captains P.P. Galliard and A.H. Boykin, local white men who knew that Buckner was a Negro. Although it was illegal at the time for a Negro to formally join the Confederate forces, the Ellison family's prestige nullified the law in the minds of Buckner's comrades. Buckner was wounded in action on July 12, 1863. At his funeral in Stateburg in August, 1895 he was praised by his former Confederate officers as being a "faithful soldier."

Following the war the Ellison family fortune quickly dwindled. But many former Negro slave magnates quickly took advantage of circumstances and benefited by virtue of their race. For example Antoine Dubuclet, the previously mentioned New Orleans plantation owner who held more than 100 slaves, became Louisiana state treasurer during Reconstruction, a post he held from 1868 to 1877 (10).

A truer picture of the Old South, one never presented by the nation's mind molders, emerges from this account. The American South had been undergoing structural evolutionary changes far, far greater than generations of Americans have been led to believe. In time, within a relatively short time, the obsolete and economically nonviable institution of slavery would have disappeared. The nation would have been spared awesome traumas from which it would never fully recover.

Olive Oil Goombah
01-16-2010, 08:22 PM
droppin knowledge Art God

ALCATRAZ
01-16-2010, 08:28 PM
can u imagine where blacks would be on an economic plane if we got our 40 acres and a mule? we'd be rich

Mic Tyson
01-16-2010, 08:34 PM
yea i learned about this in school. pretty fucked up

ALCATRAZ
01-16-2010, 08:38 PM
i waunt my 40 acres and mah mule

Art Vandelay
01-16-2010, 08:39 PM
can u imagine where blacks would be on an economic plane if we got our 40 acres and a mule? we'd be rich

can you imagine how much money you would have if you actually went out and got a job?

Mic Tyson
01-16-2010, 08:39 PM
i waunt my 40 acres and mah mule


me too nigga

Olive Oil Goombah
01-16-2010, 08:42 PM
the racism we kno of today was born out of Reconstruction and the Civil War

Olive Oil Goombah
01-16-2010, 08:43 PM
LOL 40 acres and a mule aint gonna get you much today. Plus then you would have to start paying property taxes.....could you even afford that AND feed the mule everyday???

ALCATRAZ
01-16-2010, 08:51 PM
probably not, but that aint the point

if we had that shit from jump, when all niggaz knew how to do was crop ... we would've owned that shit ... blacks wouldnt of had a reason to go north or west other than to expand revenue ... we got royally shafted on that one

Olive Oil Goombah
01-16-2010, 08:56 PM
thats not necessarily true tho...because blacks would have went north and west anyway because of the amount of jobs their.

But yes, they botched reconstruction.

I blame the North for not being farsighted.....they sort of just freed the slaves and then expected everything to be great but truthfully, the Civil War only increased resentment of the white southerner against not only the north but the blacks....

Plus the south was in shambles......

it was just bad, it was just left to its own device and looked what happened

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 01:22 AM
yes - black people have done terrible things too -


under the title - black people

you happy ?

does every black slave owner you posted have an ENGLISH name ?


i don't know cause i didn't read it all - but if it does, you should delete your post

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 01:24 AM
i waunt my 40 acres and mah mule

take it



...but oh, you have no army or NATION to join onto to make that happen


good luck getting it all by your lonesome

Art Vandelay
01-17-2010, 01:35 AM
yes - black people have done terrible things too -


you happy ?


no, i didn't need you to admit it. i wanted alcatraz to admit it since he seems to think that all black people stick together no matter what.

my point wasn't to prove that blacks are worse than whites or that whites are so much better than blacks.

people are people. some do evil, some do good. doesn't matter the color.

SKAMPOE
01-17-2010, 02:27 AM
the sayin ''when in rome'' comes to mind...

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 02:34 AM
no, i didn't need you to admit it. i wanted alcatraz to admit it since he seems to think that all black people stick together no matter what.

my point wasn't to prove that blacks are worse than whites or that whites are so much better than blacks.

people are people. some do evil, some do good. doesn't matter the color.


i understand your point - understand my intentions -

what culture did the people you posted above follow ?

was the culture they follow forced on them ?

who was it forced on them by ?

whose culture is it ?


people all over the globe are being influenced to be devilish, because devilishment is being promoted -all over the word -

it's being promoted by those who had a devilsh culture forced on them

it's also being promoted by those who the culture originates with


why is english the primary language dam near everywhere ?


my intention is not to point the finger at an individual who might fit the description - but to target the source of the bullshit -


where are those little plastic crack vials being manufactured at ?


not in the hood

Art Vandelay
01-17-2010, 11:32 AM
sunny, i get your point. white man is the devil. blah blah blah. that's fine i don't have a problem with that.

but the blue-eyed devil didn't force these black men to own slaves. they chose that lifestyle. slaves weren't exactly cheap. not everyone owned slaves. they couldn't afford to. their was upkeep on slaves. you had to feed, clothe, shelter, etc. them. the blacks that owned slaves weren't dumb niggers. they were smart businessmen. when it came to slavery, black and white didn't have as much to do with it as the color green did.

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 02:20 PM
sunny, i get your point. white man is the devil. blah blah blah. that's fine i don't have a problem with that.


the white man is a reflection of our devil


but the blue-eyed devil didn't force these black men to own slaves. they chose that lifestyle.


people can only choose from what's in front of them -







the blacks that owned slaves weren't dumb niggers. they were smart businessmen.

how many of them have you talked to to come to that realization ?






when it came to slavery, black and white didn't have as much to do with it as the color green did.

oh yeah - do white men have a myriad of scares on their backs to show their equality in the experience ?

Plus - black men don't share the same face space on that "green " that you talk about -



i'm not saying this out of resentment for white men - i'm saying it cause it's the Truth

Art Vandelay
01-17-2010, 04:48 PM
Let me start off by saying that i am not trying to trivialize slavery nor do i think that the majority of slave owners were black and whites were innocent. with that being said...

people can only choose from what's in front of them

that's right. they had a choice between owning slaves and not owning slaves. the people referenced in this article chose to own slaves.

if you are rationalizing the fact that black people owned slaves is because that was the best option in front of them, then you must rationalize the same for the white slave owners.

how many of them have you talked to to come to that realization?

that's just a fact. same goes for the white slave owners. not every white person owned slaves in the south. less than 5% of white people in the south owned slaves. there were 2 primary groups of slave owners. the one's that owned plantations and the one's that were rich enough to own slaves to have as servants. poor white people didn't own slaves. not because they didn't want to, but because they couldn't afford it.

this is also the reason that there is a state of west virginia today. west virginia used to be apart of the state of virginia. they seceded from virginia because the people that lived there didn't feel the need to fight to keep slavery. they had no use for slaves. the terrain of west virginia is mostly mountainess. there isn't enough farm land to have plantations so there is for the most part, no need for slaves. the few slave owners in west virginia were just wealthy people who had a few servants. slaves were considered property. to their owners, they were basically a piece of farm equipment. there would be no need to spend a lot of money on a piece of farm equipment if you didn't own a farm. that would be like living in mid-town manhattan and owning a john deere tractor.


do white men have a myriad of scars on their backs to show their equality in the experience?

that wasn't my point. i just meant that slavery had to do with money. slaves are free labor. it is just unfortunate that black people had to be the ones to go through that. had there been no need for free labor, black people wouldn't be in this country.


black men don't share the same face space on that "green " that you talk about

ummmm, i don't know what that has to do with it, or where i said they did. regardless of whose face in on the dollar, it spends the same for blacks as it does for whites. it also corrupts the same

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 05:43 PM
that's right. they had a choice between owning slaves and not owning slaves. the people referenced in this article chose to own slaves.

if you are rationalizing the fact that black people owned slaves is because that was the best option in front of them, then you must rationalize the same for the white slave owners.



the truth of the matter is this - Black People had the knowledge of tilling the land and architecture - black people had to be broke and made into farm animals - we were master builders and gods of agriculture



that's just a fact. same goes for the white slave owners. not every white person owned slaves in the south. less than 5% of white people in the south owned slaves. there were 2 primary groups of slave owners. the one's that owned plantations and the one's that were rich enough to own slaves to have as servants. poor white people didn't own slaves. not because they didn't want to, but because they couldn't afford it.


good build



this is also the reason that there is a state of west virginia today. west virginia used to be apart of the state of virginia. they seceded from virginia because the people that lived there didn't feel the need to fight to keep slavery. they had no use for slaves. the terrain of west virginia is mostly mountainess. there isn't enough farm land to have plantations so there is for the most part, no need for slaves. the few slave owners in west virginia were just wealthy people who had a few servants. slaves were considered property. to their owners, they were basically a piece of farm equipment. there would be no need to spend a lot of money on a piece of farm equipment if you didn't own a farm. that would be like living in mid-town manhattan and owning a john deere tractor.

good build




that wasn't my point. i just meant that slavery had to do with money. slaves are free labor. it is just unfortunate that black people had to be the ones to go through that.

no one else would have been able to do the job...like us


had there been no need for free labor, black people wouldn't be in this country.

black people were already here - fact




ummmm, i don't know what that has to do with it, or where i said they did. regardless of whose face in on the dollar, it spends the same for blacks as it does for whites. it also corrupts the same


i said that to have you look at your "we are all here in the same situation" argument - cause it's not true - and it's obvious - but it's a tactic to take some of the pressure of guilt off of the collective new white people today
who are being questioned and looked at funny by the children of the former slaves -



yes we are in a different situation today - from my view i would say it's worst - but those who benefit from it don't seem to understand why we are not in love with the system that was built off of our degradation -

the experience is not the same for us - you can relate to those people on those bills more than we can

Olive Oil Goombah
01-17-2010, 05:46 PM
Any excuse Sunny can make for why those black dudes owned slaves, white people who were born into the system of slavery in the south can too.

They couldn't help they wre born into that system either.


So you cannot fault them...its all they knew

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 06:02 PM
Any excuse Sunny can make for why those black dudes owned slaves, white people who were born into the system of slavery in the south can too.

They couldn't help they wre born into that system either.


So you cannot fault them...its all they knew

yall still don't get it - please try

it's not about fault or who committed the worst sin it's about the whole situation not being equal - with "whites" having the advantage and "black people" having a wicked culture FORCED on us - in that culture, doing stupid shit like abusing servants and making animals out of men then blaming them for being animals is the norm - black people kill each other for whites approval - WHY ?

that is the point - do yall know what CONTROL is ?

why were those choices made ?

and if they had their own original culture, language, god, nation, land would they have made those choices ?


parts of the land that they were Ripped from, was left desolate with the very old and very young - what choices were they left with and what came up out of that situation ?


if there is a god that will administor justice ( and i believe there is), don't you think he'll consider that when dealing justice to black people for the wrong they do/did ?


a team of crack dealers can all get caught at the same time - but it's not likely that they will all do the same time

Olive Oil Goombah
01-17-2010, 06:19 PM
you dont get it.....they were all born into the system....black white.....

the people at fault are those who set up the slave trade, ultimately.

The generations afterward were just victims of their own place.



I don't personally think this makes anyone excusable....


You seem too.

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 06:36 PM
you are right - white people were lied to also

the people at fault are those who still maintain that system

and promote,defend, and fight for that system - and those who ridicule the children of those slaves - you fit that description

Art Vandelay
01-17-2010, 06:42 PM
sunny, honestly, you might be the most racist person on this forum...

all white people relate to the founding fathers of the country

all black people were the best farmers and architects

all blacks that owned slaves were broken by the white man

only blacks were capable of doing the farm work

god will be leniant on all black people who enslaved their own people

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 06:54 PM
sunny, honestly, you might be the most racist person on this forum...


maybe - but that is from your perspective - i don't buy into the we are all in this together now bullshit -

all white people relate to the founding fathers of the country

all black people were the best farmers and architects

all blacks that owned slaves were broken by the white man

only blacks were capable of doing the farm work


Asians are known to eat rice - doesn't mean that all do -

you never generalize huh - if you really felt that we were all equal, you would join with me to erase those dumb ass titles we have for ourselves as black and white

i go with whats true and just - i roll with those who will do the work and who speak the truth no matter what - at this stage where culture is over race, i don't trust shit, nor do i connect myself to people who may have my same skin tone just because they have my same skin tone - don't insult my intelligence


god will be leniant on all black people who enslaved their own people

you mad ?

yes - black men with names like tommy, robert henry,brian, etc... will get some leniency - that is what i believe -

Art Vandelay
01-17-2010, 07:09 PM
you never generalize huh - if you really felt that we were all equal, you would join with me to erase those dumb ass titles we have for ourselves as black and white

i don't see black and white as a title. i see it as a description. the same as man and woman. not all men are the same and not all women are the same.

and as far as everyone being equal, that's kind of complicated. for the most part, blacks and whites aren't equal as far as they're treated. yes, a majority of the time, blacks get the shit end of the stick. but, i see people as individuals, not equals. i don't think me and you are equal. i don't know you and you don't know me. we've both gone through different things in life. but i think everyone deserves an equal oppurtunity. i know that's virtually impossible because you have to play the cards you were dealt. but just because you were dealt shitty cards doesn't give somebody an excuse for why they haven't made something of themselves.

as far as my friends go, i treat them as equals. i have poor and rich white and black friends. i have edcated and uneducated friends. i don't treat one better than the other because of their social status.

you mad ?

no, i don't even believe in god. i just find it absurd that if there was a god, people claim they know what he would do. zooruka is good for that too.

black men with names like tommy, robert henry,brian, etc... will get some leniency - that is what i believe -

that sounds accurate to me. i don't doubt that at all.

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 07:30 PM
i don't see black and white as a title. i see it as a description. the same as man and woman. not all men are the same and not all women are the same.


and you call me racist
and as far as everyone being equal, that's kind of complicated. for the most part, blacks and whites aren't equal as far as they're treated. yes, a majority of the time, blacks get the shit end of the stick. but, i see people as individuals, not equals. i don't think me and you are equal. i don't know you and you don't know me. we've both gone through different things in life. but i think everyone deserves an equal oppurtunity. i know that's virtually impossible because you have to play the cards you were dealt. but just because you were dealt shitty cards doesn't give somebody an excuse for why they haven't made something of themselves.


that's like saying just because i fed you poison, that is no reason for you to die - if you die, that's your fault - you should have known it was poison - when do people realize that they were dealt shitty cards - so many people still don't know that they are holding shitty cards in their hands



as far as my friends go, i treat them as equals. i have poor and rich white and black friends. i have edcated and uneducated friends. i don't treat one better than the other because of their social status.


uh huh



no, i don't even believe in god. i just find it absurd that if there was a god, people claim they know what he would do. zooruka is good for that too.



there goes one of them shitty cards



that sounds accurate to me. i don't doubt that at all.


Peace

Uncle Steezo
01-17-2010, 07:37 PM
nick, your novelty has run its course.

art doesn't believe in a higher power so much of sunny's argument won't register until he does.

Art Vandelay
01-17-2010, 07:40 PM
wunded fox, i don't know much about your background. what cards were you dealt? did you grow up rich or did you grow up poor? was drug using/selling an option for you? why did you opt out and decide to sell glitter t-shirts? did you grow up around glitter t-shirts and that was your only choice?

not believing in a higher power has nothing to do with it. until sunny believes in humanity, he will never see my point.

LORD NOSE
01-17-2010, 07:44 PM
there is no reason for me to believe in humanity


how does one BELIEVE in humanity


you're just typin shit with no good thought behind it - it just feels, and sounds right to you - but you obviously haven't given it much thought


i believe in loving people - what i'm doing now is out of pure love -

Art Vandelay
01-17-2010, 07:49 PM
do you love me, sunny?

Nick Fury
01-21-2010, 01:42 AM
nick, your novelty has run its course.



whats up with dudes racial bullshit man lol hes on a hip hop site


do you love me, sunny?

hopefully no homo

TSA
01-21-2010, 02:08 AM
white people did more to end slavery then black ppl and black ppl participated in the slave trade more then white ppl.

had the european powers not ended slavery in their colonies you could probably still cop a nig for a crate of beer and a rifle

IrOnMaN
01-21-2010, 11:19 AM
white people did more to end slavery then black ppl and black ppl participated in the slave trade more then white ppl.

had the european powers not ended slavery in their colonies you could probably still cop a nig for a crate of beer and a rifle

Hmmm.......