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Monkdude
01-23-2010, 10:16 PM
marginalized groups of people within society who ignore social issues to explain rational problems and focus on mythical, omnipresent organizations designed only to corrupt society. These mythical organizations of the "elite" supposedly hold the marginalized down and remove their people from any possible chance of social/political control. In order to cope with inherent socioeconomic issues, marginalized groups would rather focus on mythical groups created for the sole purpose of their destruction rather than focus on real, and threatening, solutions.

get a grip.

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-24-2010, 03:20 AM
...where do these inherent socioeconomic issues have their origin. Why are they there in the first place?

HETEPU

ZigZag
01-24-2010, 07:18 AM
marginalized groups of people within society who ignore social issues to explain rational problems and focus on mythical, omnipresent organizations designed only to corrupt society. These mythical organizations of the "elite" supposedly hold the marginalized down and remove their people from any possible chance of social/political control. In order to cope with inherent socioeconomic issues, marginalized groups would rather focus on mythical groups created for the sole purpose of their destruction rather than focus on real, and threatening, solutions.

Get a grip.

u wanna say that its a "myth" but the reality is that "they" are very real. The bible even speaks of "principalities in high places." karl marx called them the bougoise. U can call them whatever u want, but they exist. The lobbyist in politics, the big companies and enterprises that own everything...that is the real and true "illuminati"

PALEFORCE
01-24-2010, 08:58 AM
The Illuminati has historical evidence. It was started by a man named adam weishupt in bavaria, i believe, in the 1600s.

its used as a more broad term now to describe all the secret societies skull and bones, the round table, freemasons, etc.. and their controllers agenda.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
01-24-2010, 09:03 AM
marginalized groups of people within society who ignore social issues to explain rational problems and focus on mythical, omnipresent organizations designed only to corrupt society. These mythical organizations of the "elite" supposedly hold the marginalized down and remove their people from any possible chance of social/political control. In order to cope with inherent socioeconomic issues, marginalized groups would rather focus on mythical groups created for the sole purpose of their destruction rather than focus on real, and threatening, solutions.

get a grip.

Yeah, no shit.

Now try to explain calculus to a bunch of chimps.

PALEFORCE
01-24-2010, 09:05 AM
Yeah, no shit.

Now try to explain calculus to a bunch of chimps.

i know exactly how you feel dan

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
01-24-2010, 09:07 AM
However, I would like to add that it isn't just socioeconomic. Some "believers" are simply ostracized SOCIALLY, or feel like they don't fit in. And because of this feeling of exclusion, there must be something wrong with the rest of the world, or the "system".

It's not that they're "nerds", it's that everyone else is evil.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
01-24-2010, 09:08 AM
i know exactly how you feel dan

you wished cancer and death on me because I drink out of water fountains sometimes.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
01-24-2010, 09:13 AM
i know exactly how you feel dan

you wished cancer and death on me because I disagree with you on the internet.

PALEFORCE
01-24-2010, 09:31 AM
marginalized groups of people within society who ignore social issues to explain rational problems and focus on mythical, omnipresent organizations designed only to corrupt society. These mythical organizations of the "elite" supposedly hold the marginalized down and remove their people from any possible chance of social/political control. In order to cope with inherent socioeconomic issues, marginalized groups would rather focus on mythical groups created for the sole purpose of their destruction rather than focus on real, and threatening, solutions.

get a grip.

However, I would like to add that it isn't just socioeconomic. Some "believers" are simply ostracized SOCIALLY, or feel like they don't fit in. And because of this feeling of exclusion, there must be something wrong with the rest of the world, or the "system".

It's not that they're "nerds", it's that everyone else is evil.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/whitel0tus/74726565PgP5u2UIElephantintheRoom.jpg

oDoUoSoKo
01-24-2010, 09:38 AM
i can go as far as believing secret societies run the planet..but the theories of lizard people having existed..and atlantis existing, are a little harder for me to believe ..eloels.

beautifulrock
01-24-2010, 11:34 AM
marginalized groups of people within society who ignore social issues to explain rational problems and focus on mythical, omnipresent organizations designed only to corrupt society. These mythical organizations of the "elite" supposedly hold the marginalized down and remove their people from any possible chance of social/political control. In order to cope with inherent socioeconomic issues, marginalized groups would rather focus on mythical groups created for the sole purpose of their destruction rather than focus on real, and threatening, solutions.

get a grip.



This, like what you're trying to disprove, is a THEORY. There are absolutely no facts here. No evidence. Just a guy ranting. Now who does that sound like? Don't come at conspiracy theorists with what amounts to nothing. It makes you look worse that the people you're railing against. You say they don't exist? I say you can't disprove their existence. There, back to square one.

LoTec
01-24-2010, 01:01 PM
I personally dont buy into the the satanic occultism that the Illuminiati are said to be involved in, its a possibility ofcourse tho.

I think that it is pretty clear that if you look back at history with in the last thousand years or two. One will see that the richest people at any given time or place will be the ones in power. Everyones heard the saying who ever has the gold makes the rules.

Now I dont see why that would not aply to the time we live in now, we in America are brought up to believe in our system that the politicians and the President that we elected hold the most power.

I think tho that it is far more likey that there are extremely wealthy people out there that hide behind the system and pull the strings. Im talking super old money motherfuckers that are so wealthy that they dont get listed in forbes and other tallys of rich people world wide. They run shit and have their own agendas that may seem contrary to common sense but they are opperating on a whole nother level.

I could def be wrong and all could be exactly as it appears.

Urban_Journalz
01-24-2010, 01:11 PM
marginalized groups of people within society who ignore social issues to explain rational problems and focus on mythical, omnipresent organizations designed only to corrupt society. These mythical organizations of the "elite" supposedly hold the marginalized down and remove their people from any possible chance of social/political control. In order to cope with inherent socioeconomic issues, marginalized groups would rather focus on mythical groups created for the sole purpose of their destruction rather than focus on real, and threatening, solutions.

get a grip.

And you call yourself a monk.

Cthulhu
01-24-2010, 01:49 PM
The Illuminati has historical evidence. It was started by a man named adam weishupt in bavaria, i believe, in the 1600s.

It was founded in 1776 and has been defunct since 1785. It had nothing to do with starting a NWO and if there is such a thing as a modern Illuminati that is trying to cause massive genocide, such a thing has nothing to do with the humanist, rationalist ideals of Weishaupt's group.

An actual quote from Weishaupt:

I have contrived an explanation [of Freemasonry] which has every advantage, is inviting to Christians of every communion, gradually frees them from all religious prejudices, cultivates the social virtues, and animates them by a great, a feasible, and a speedy prospect of universal happiness, in a state of liberty and moral equality, freed from the obstacles which subordination, rank and riches continually throw in our way. My explanation is accurate and complete; my means are effectual and irresistible. Our secret association works in a way that nothing can withstand, and man shall soon be free and happy....

To fit man by Illumination for active virtue, to engage him to it by the strongest motives, to render the attainment of it easy and certain ... this indeed will be employment suited to noble natures, grand in its views, and delightful in its exercise....

And what is the general object? THE HAPPINESS OF THE HUMAN RACE.... When we see the wicked so powerful and the good so weak, and that it is in vain to strive singly and alone against the general current of vice and oppression, the wish naturally arises in the mind that if it were possible to form a durable combination of the most worthy persons, who should work together in removing the obstacles to human happiness... and by fettering lessen vice; means which at the same time should promote virtue, by rendering the inclination to rectitude, hitherto so feeble, more powerful and engaging. Would not such an association be a blessing to the world?

The Illuminati all you conspiracy theorists talk about sounds a good deal more like the Catholic Church officials and government officials who persecuted the Illuminists and other deists, atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers during the Enlightenment.

ZigZag
01-24-2010, 01:55 PM
it was founded in 1776 and has been defunct since 1785. It had nothing to do with starting a nwo and if there is such a thing as a modern illuminati that is trying to cause massive genocide, such a thing has nothing to do with the humanist, rationalist ideals of weishaupt's group.

wrong. That is the mason's not illuminati.
an actual quote from weishaupt:



The illuminati all you conspiracy theorists talk about sounds a good deal more like the catholic church officials and government officials who persecuted the illuminists and other deists, atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers during the enlightenment.

like palehorse said it was created in 1600's in europe. U fail.

PALEFORCE
01-24-2010, 01:59 PM
naw hes actuallly right about the date. I was just making an educated guess about that part, i was somewhat close

DC Entel
01-24-2010, 02:15 PM
who thinks illuminati is involved with the haiti crisis

Cthulhu
01-24-2010, 03:10 PM
like palehorse said it was created in 1600's in europe. U fail.

No, you fail. You can look it up just about anywhere. It was founded in 1776 in Bavaria by philosopher Johann Adam Weishaupt who modeled some of its structue and rituals after Freemasonry, which he admired insofar as it forced members put aside the sectarian prejudices of various denominations of Christanity. Weishaupt wanted to take it a step further, however, and promote the acceptance of non-belief and an end to monarchy and state religion.

Cthulhu
01-24-2010, 03:11 PM
who thinks illuminati is involved with the haiti crisis

Someone who doesn't understand plate tectonics?

TheBoarzHeadBoy
01-24-2010, 08:03 PM
I'll be the first to agree that they're most likely an illusion believed out of coolness factor and needing to hate "the man". The left say its a right wing conspiracy, the right says its a left wing conspiracy. The Illuminati are just the idea of an evil behind the scenes of government we've always had in this country. We only have "Illuminati" in our closet because we don't have a brutal government. We don't have a harsh dictator (not that America has clean hands, but they're not as sticky as a lot of countries' hands.) to hate on. So whenever chaos happens somewhere theres no one to blame. Thus we blame the Illuminati. In the olden days people blamed the devil. Now that god is effectively dead in much of the world blames conspiracies.

The real Illuminati were a bunch of rich Masons (a gentleman's club like any other) in Europe who thought they'd start their own sub movement which being called Illuminati had the goal of spreading the Enlightenment. The enlightenment of course is what inspired the revolutions in America and France and is what our Constitution is based on. Anyone who has read the Constitution can see its a good idea. So clearly these Illuminati aren't evil. Washington denied being a member though he was a ranking Freemason. Clearly they're not very related. Washington was beloved enough over here to have said he was part of a satanic cult :). I doubt he'd have lied about being an Illuminati.

Cthulhu is completely correct. The Declaration of Independence, The Wealth of Nations, and the Illuminati (three major enlightenment events) all happened in that year. It's kind of a big deal.

Nice name by the way Cthulhu, I love Lovecraft. As someone born in Beverly across the river from Salem his Arkham stories are great.

Cthulhu
01-24-2010, 08:33 PM
I'll be the first to agree that they're most likely an illusion believed out of coolness factor and needing to hate "the man". The left say its a right wing conspiracy, the right says its a left wing conspiracy. The Illuminati are just the idea of an evil behind the scenes of government we've always had in this country. We only have "Illuminati" in our closet because we don't have a brutal government. We don't have a harsh dictator (not that America has clean hands, but they're not as sticky as a lot of countries' hands.) to hate on. So whenever chaos happens somewhere theres no one to blame. Thus we blame the Illuminati. In the olden days people blamed the devil. Now that god is effectively dead in much of the world blames conspiracies.

The real Illuminati were a bunch of rich Masons (a gentleman's club like any other) in Europe who thought they'd start their own sub movement which being called Illuminati had the goal of spreading the Enlightenment. The enlightenment of course is what inspired the revolutions in America and France and is what our Constitution is based on. Anyone who has read the Constitution can see its a good idea. So clearly these Illuminati aren't evil. Washington denied being a member though he was a ranking Freemason. Clearly they're not very related. Washington was beloved enough over here to have said he was part of a satanic cult :). I doubt he'd have lied about being an Illuminati.

Cthulhu is completely correct. The Declaration of Independence, The Wealth of Nations, and the Illuminati (three major enlightenment events) all happened in that year. It's kind of a big deal.

Nice name by the way Cthulhu, I love Lovecraft. As someone born in Beverly across the river from Salem his Arkham stories are great.

Ah thanks. I'm actually not as big of a Lovecraft fan anymore as the time that I made this s/n, but he's certainly one of the more interesting authors of the 20th century. Lately I'm more into the older Gothic fiction that influenced a lot of his stuff, as well as poetry and fiction from the Decadents and Surrealists.

LORD NOSE
01-24-2010, 09:30 PM
how come there is no 13th floor in any of the buildings on my old block ?

oDoUoSoKo
01-24-2010, 10:00 PM
Someone who doesn't understand plate tectonics?
:hooray:

lmao

Olive Oil Goombah
01-24-2010, 10:19 PM
how come there is no 13th floor in any of the buildings on my old block ?

its an old myth that 13 is unlucky...there is awhole thing behind it.

whitey
01-24-2010, 11:36 PM
how come there is no 13th floor in any of the buildings on my old block ?

cause you only got 12 story buildings in the hood son!

SKAMPOE
01-24-2010, 11:57 PM
u wanna say that its a "myth" but the reality is that "they" are very real. The bible even speaks of "principalities in high places." karl marx called them the bougoise. U can call them whatever u want, but they exist. The lobbyist in politics, the big companies and enterprises that own everything...that is the real and true "illuminati"
werd up, every thing we eat every day can be traced back to one of 4 companys.

zooruka
01-25-2010, 01:42 AM
The bible even speaks of "principalities in high places."


This is talking about the devil and his angels not people.


peace be with you !

SKAMPOE
01-25-2010, 02:53 AM
hahahahahha the devil n his angels, that right there should give u sum sort of idea on how these catholics try n govern thru mass confusion and play on peoples weaknesses with lies deceit and fear of a higher power lol

Face of the Golden Falcon
01-25-2010, 02:55 AM
^
...Angels look like men though right? (Genesis 19:5) And the devil is supposed to be a fallen angel, so he would look like a man to. Maybe the bible is talking about "people". At least beings that look like people.

What do you reckon Ruka?

HETEP

Edgar Erebus
01-25-2010, 03:10 AM
However, I would like to add that it isn't just socioeconomic. Some "believers" are simply ostracized SOCIALLY, or feel like they don't fit in. And because of this feeling of exclusion, there must be something wrong with the rest of the world, or the "system".

It's not that they're "nerds", it's that everyone else is evil.

So let everyone be "jocks" and half of the world issues will be solved.

People like you, who ostracize others socially, create the "nerd" subclass. Therefore you are wrong for their anger at the world, system and for spreading of crackpot conspiracy theories. Mazeltov!

zooruka
01-25-2010, 03:29 AM
^
...Angels look like men though right? (Genesis 19:5) And the devil is supposed to be a fallen angel, so he would look like a man to. Maybe the bible is talking about "people". At least beings that look like people.

What do you reckon Ruka?

HETEP


Yes you are right angels can take on the appearance of men when needed, but they don`t live as humans, in so much as they would appear human to hold a postion in a company as ceo and or president of a country.... They don`t need to do that, the fallen angels and satan work in the unseen realm, that is there modus operandi for conducting war on humanity.....also satan has the ability to posess people litrually as he did with judas ( which he pretty much never does but because christ is his most important enemy he did it ) so he can do that if he wants to affect the world.....also there are demons who do satan`s bidding (which are the off spring of fallen angels and human women who had sex (when fallen angels took human form and came to earth and took women wives but where later locked in the abyss by God for doing so) and there children were killed in the flood of noah ..but lived on in spirit form and know go around posessing humans and controlling them.

Thats why Jesus came and exposed them for us,because they mostly stay silent so as not to be detected...and also they have molded society to believe they don`t exist.

So yes fallen angels can appear as humans...but they don`t do that because there is no benifit ..because satan and his legion have alot of tools at there disposal to controlle humanity and they can achieve everything they want in the unseen.


peace be with you !

SKAMPOE
01-25-2010, 03:50 AM
if thats even plausible, then the thought of ancient aliens might be too, instead of the bible talkin about angels as humans the angels were supreme beings ''aliens'' that came down n shaped our civilisation...

zooruka
01-25-2010, 04:05 AM
if thats even plausible, then the thought of ancient aliens might be too, instead of the bible talkin about angels as humans the angels were supreme beings ''aliens'' that came down n shaped our civilisation...


skampoe.......satan and his angels have molded our civilisation...the bible calls satan the God of this world....The phrase “god of this world” indicates that Satan is the major influence on the mind-set expressed by the ideals, opinions, goals, hopes and views of the majority of people. His areas of influence also encompass the world’s philosophies, education, and commerce. The thoughts, ideas, speculations and false religions of the world are under his control and have sprung from his lies and deceptions...This is not to say that he rules the world completely; only God does this. But it does mean that God, in His infinite wisdom, has allowed Satan to operate in this world (within the boundaries God has set for him).

So while I don`t believe that angels are aliens....I do believe that they came to this world and operate with the devil.


peace be with you !

SKAMPOE
01-25-2010, 04:17 AM
yea yea i heard that shit b4, cant fuck with human will...mental enslavement if u ask me.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
01-25-2010, 04:17 PM
Bah, Good and Evil are too subjective to exist in a real universe or a metaphysical one. Its too easy to argue the real motivation of actions and the results of choices.

Christianity is a cult. I'm not saying its good or bad, but thats what it is. It's a death cult.

They worship a dead man who somehow allegedly managed to come back to life all the while spouting off about pacifism and how he's a divine creation. Sounds more like the classic case of a great man being deified in death. I'm not demeaning Jesus by denying his divinity, I put him up there with Zoroaster, Confucius, and Gautama; with Jefferson, Marx, Tupac and Biggie (I'm kidding about the last two.)

On point, we are a superstitious lot us humans (I argue that our weakened senses and strong intellect weaken us in this regard, we lack good perception and thus compensate by worrying about imagined dangers to keep ourselves sharp. If we're afraid of something we can't understand or control, we're that much safer staying the hell away from it. It gets silly at a point like the fear of 13 or such, but its just instinct.

We must think with Enlightenment Philosophy, Rationalism, Realism. And to keep us from going nuts we feel through Romance, Arts, and Humor. Balance is key. You should never really believe either totally. Both sides must exist in a man. Sinester et Dexter.

And as much as I advocate free thought, this is socialist idealogy.

So let everyone be "jocks" and half of the world issues will be solved.

People like you, who ostracize others socially, create the "nerd" subclass. Therefore you are wrong for their anger at the world, system and for spreading of crackpot conspiracy theories. Mazeltov!

It's unrealistic to treat people as equals when they are not equals. We cannot take the blame for others being unwilling to improve and change. I don't ostracize anyone, though I haze on everyone. I work pretty hard (well that's not very true) to do work on the playing field, the classroom, the party scene, and shit in general (I can converse with you guys about shit too, not that most of you have any idea what you're saying...) Thus if someone is not as good I don't look as highly on them, but those above me I respect, and those trying to surpass me I respect. Its the people who allow themselves to be what are nerd stereotypes who find my disdain as well as my empathy.

We must acknowledge weaknesses to correct them, not ignore them while they fracture and crack.

Uncle Steezo
01-25-2010, 08:01 PM
boarz have you ever thought about the possiblity that what you consider "you" "me" "them" "us" is just an illusion?

ego.

ballistic
01-25-2010, 10:59 PM
the whole "illuminati as social pathology" theory is interesting and in fact fundamentally sound, but it overlooks too much to be considered anything more than a conveniant side-stepping of the truth.

secret societies have existed for ages. esoteric symbolism is encoded throughout our modern landscape. the masses are programmed to accept lies, an obvious phenomenon to those with eyes to see. certain truths are suppressed and wars are made for money, fun, and agendas. at this point, there are just too many facts! when the observer awakes he beholds an excess of weirdness and the illusory normalcy of his dreamworld falls away.

call it whatever you want, it exists. people who claim that the concept of the Illuminati is merely a byproduct from the diseased and battered minds of the paranoid lower classes fail to see that the foundation for such talk consists of far more than vacuous babble eminating from pathology.

Marlo Stanfield
01-25-2010, 11:59 PM
i cosign with ballistic

LoTec
01-26-2010, 04:09 PM
Yes you are right angels can take on the appearance of men when needed, but they don`t live as humans, in so much as they would appear human to hold a postion in a company as ceo and or president of a country.... They don`t need to do that, the fallen angels and satan work in the unseen realm, that is there modus operandi for conducting war on humanity.....also satan has the ability to posess people litrually as he did with judas ( which he pretty much never does but because christ is his most important enemy he did it ) so he can do that if he wants to affect the world.....also there are demons who do satan`s bidding (which are the off spring of fallen angels and human women who had sex (when fallen angels took human form and came to earth and took women wives but where later locked in the abyss by God for doing so) and there children were killed in the flood of noah ..but lived on in spirit form and know go around posessing humans and controlling them.

Thats why Jesus came and exposed them for us,because they mostly stay silent so as not to be detected...and also they have molded society to believe they don`t exist.

So yes fallen angels can appear as humans...but they don`t do that because there is no benifit ..because satan and his legion have alot of tools at there disposal to controlle humanity and they can achieve everything they want in the unseen.


peace be with you !

Ive never heard of fallen angels impregenating human women and haveing offspring killed in the flood but now there spirits wander the earth. Thats very interesting, what are the scripture that it came from or is it not an extra-canonical kinda thing.

LoTec
01-26-2010, 04:10 PM
boarz have you ever thought about the possiblity that what you consider "you" "me" "them" "us" is just an illusion?

ego.

Bingo, best post Ive read in a while.

beautifulrock
01-26-2010, 04:42 PM
how come there is no 13th floor in any of the buildings on my old block ?I have an interesting story regarding this. A bunch of college physics students wanted to bungee jump off their dorm. They measured carefully the distance of one story and multiplied that by the total number of floors. Two problems, one, they didn't test the bungee cord first, and two, they failed to realize there was no 13th floor. Oops. This story is true. You can see it in one of the Faces of Death videos.

beautifulrock
01-26-2010, 04:52 PM
Caught on Video

Many people who bungee jump do it as a one off on a special occasion, so it is likely that if an accident did happen then it would be recorded in some form (either photos or video). There is a video available (called 'Faces of Death') which shows various clips of people dying (either by execution or accident). Pretty sick if you ask me, but hey I jump off bridges :-). Anyway I heard that a bungee accident was the first clip on the first video.
Part of me thinks it is good that most accidents are captured on video so that the event can be analysed to see what went wrong and to try and stop it again. Also it is a testimony to the safety (or lawyers) of the majority of clubs that there aren't many bungee jumping accident videos in the news.
Extra Info From: Justin Friedman (jfriedm1@tufts.edu)
In response to the Caught on Video entry. I actually saw this episode of Faces of Death. There were, I think 4 people at the top of a building (two guys and two girls). They decided to celebrate something, I think that it was graduation. They constructed the bungee cord secured it to both the building and the guy. They wanted to make the cord long enough so they could touch the ground. They figured that each floor was about 10 feet and they got off at the top floor which, was something like 17 or so. The guy jumped and hit the ground. They forgot that the building doesn't have a 13th floor and thus the cord was about 10 feet too long.
As in many stupid accidents, alcohol was a big factor in the screw up.
Extra Info From: Jos Martin (martin@mildred.physics.ox.ac.uk)
There are several other death stories that I have seen on video where it looks like equipment was the cause though it is hard to tell whether it was because a person didn't do the rigging correctly.



http://www.bungeezone.com/disasters/club.shtml

whitey
01-26-2010, 06:07 PM
.

zooruka
01-26-2010, 06:47 PM
Ive never heard of fallen angels impregenating human women and haveing offspring killed in the flood but now there spirits wander the earth. Thats very interesting, what are the scripture that it came from or is it not an extra-canonical kinda thing.



Many people assume that fallen angels are the same as demons. I don't believe this is true for several reasons.
First, fallen angels are much more powerful than demons. We're told by Jesus to cast out demons. Yet, Jude cautions us in our confrontations with fallen angels. He says,
In the very same way, these dreamers...slander celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you" (Jude 8-9)
Michael, instead of rebuking Satan himself, said, "The Lord rebuke you." It is proper to rebuke demons but not fallen angels. (Read my book, The Heaven's Gate Suicide, for a more thorough explanation of the work of demons and fallen angels.)
Second, fallen angels have their own celestial bodies, therefore they have no need to inhabit bodies. Yet demons seek bodies desperately; and, if need be, they will settle for the bodies of animals (Mark 5:12-13).
Third, fallen angels have the ability to fly, but demons can only walk. Jesus says concerning demons, "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none" (Matthew 12:43, KJV). Demons walk, fallen angels fly.
Paul differentiates between these two classes of beings:
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. (Ephesians 6:12).
Demons are the powers of this dark world, while fallen angels are the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Disembodied Spirits
From the facts of the Bible concerning demons, they are disembodied spirits—that is, they once had bodies but lost them. This explains why they hunt for bodies. They crave bodies to inhabit.
Many ministers have understood the difference between fallen angels and demons, but they haven’t figured out where they came from. Most of them have speculated that demons are the disembodied spirits of a pre-adamic race, although they can't prove this from the Bible or from tradition.
I believe since demons are evil spirits that we must confront, God must have told us about them. Surely, He doesn't leave us without telling us where they come from. I believe the Bible definitely informs us as to the origins of demon spirits.
The Nephilim
So what are demons? Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim who are mentioned in Genesis chapter six. The Nephilim are the offspring of fallen angels and humans. The Nephilim were destroyed in the flood, yet their spirits remained on the earth.
This view is the oldest belief among the Jewish people. It is a belief that the apostles held to as well. Let me prove why I believe this.
Several years back, I came across the book of Enoch. The book claims to have been written by Enoch himself. I'm always suspicious of any non-canonical book. This book was no exception. I read it with deep cynicism. However, I did not read anything that would not be in accord with sound doctrine. It confirmed all the basic doctrines that Christians and Jews believe today. (There are other books which claim to have been written by Enoch. I found these books to be unscriptural.)
What I found most interesting was that the book claims that the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6:2 were fallen angels, something that many Christians believe today. It also teaches that they produced a race of beings that were half angelic and half humans called the Nephilim. And when they were destroyed by the flood, they remained on the earth as demons. Let me share with you a portion of the book of Enoch:
But now the giants who are born from the [union of] the spirits and the flesh shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, because their dwelling shall be upon the earth and inside the earth. Evil spirits have come out of their bodies. Because from the day that they were created from the sons of God they became Watchers: their first origin is the spiritual foundation. They will become evil upon the earth and shall be called evil spirits. The dwelling of the spiritual beings of heaven is heaven; but the dwelling of the spirits of the earth, which are born upon the earth, is in the earth. (1 Enoch 15:8-10)
It is clear from the book of Enoch that evil spirits are the giants who were born from the union of spirits and flesh. This passage sounds like it came from Greek mythology. But this should not surprise us because another name for evil spirits is demon, and the word "demon" comes from Greek mythology. E.W. Vines will confirm this. He writes concerning the Greek word daimon, which is translated demon in the New Testament as being derived "among pagan Greeks, an inferior deity..." [Vines, Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words].
This word was used by the Greeks to describe their mythological gods, like Zeus and Hermes. Do you remember that’s what the people of Lystra thought Paul and Barnabus were (Acts 14:12)?
You might remember studying Greek mythology in school; this was their religion. The Greeks worshipped many gods. Most believed their gods were superhuman beings. Basically they believed that these gods came down to earth and intermingled with humans, thus were born their heroes.
I believe that this mythology is rooted in a real, dramatic event in the past. This event, after centuries, was clouded in mystery. The Bible, however, unclouded Greek mythology. It describes it accurately in Genesis. It tells us exactly what happened.

When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the Lord said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:1-4)

The name "Nephilim" means giants. The union of the sons of God and the daughters of men produced a race of giants. This fact disproves the theory that the term "sons of God" refer to the righteous line of Seth. This theory surmises that Seth’s line had intermarried a pagan line. However, why would this union produce giants and heroes? If believers married unbelievers, this would not produce giants and heroes.
I can understand why the term sons of God could be construed to mean believers; after all, that's what we are called. However, it is important to understand a term by seeing how it was used in its particular time.
It seems clear that the book of Genesis is a compilation of the writings of the patriarchs. This will explain why Genesis contains so many different writing styles; this has unfortunately gave way to an unfair attack on the authorship of Moses. However, Moses simply used the writings of the patriarchs to put together his book. He often keeps the same exact words that the patriarchs used.
This means that if we are to understand the term sons of God it would be best to compare this term with a similar term from a book that was written during the same period, in this case, during the times of the patriarchs. Fortunately, we have such a book. It's the book of Job. The book of Job was written during the patriarchal period. The term sons of God is mentioned in Job 1:6:

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Here we find that the sons of God were angels, and Satan is numbered among them. The sons of God are mentioned also in chapter 38:7 (KJV):

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

This scripture is written in a literary technique called Hebrew Parallelism, which means that the identical thing is said in two different ways. This means morning stars are the same as sons of God. Satan once was called the morning star (Lucifer), which identifies him with the angels. He was among the morning stars that sang for joy when God created the universe. All the angels are also called the sons of God.
It seems clear then that the term sons of God as used in Genesis would mean angels, since Job uses this term in that way.
So Genesis chapter six is saying that angels came and had sexual union with human beings.
Someone might object by saying, "But Jesus said that angels do not have sex, so how could the term sons of God be referring to angels?"
Let's look at the passage carefully where Jesus discussed this:

Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can never die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:34-37)

The way Luke puts the words of Christ, humans will be like the angels because they can never die, not because they can never marry. However, the way Matthew constructs the sentence, it appears different:

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30)

"You see," someone may argue, "angels can’t marry, so the sons of God could not refer to angels because the sons of God married."
Before someone debates this point, they should take note that only the angels in heaven don’t marry. There is no mentioned about the angels who were cast out of heaven.
We know from Genesis chapter three that Satan (he’s called a snake) had already been cast out of heaven. So the Fall of the devil and his angels came before the sons of God came to the daughters of men. I don't believe that the angels in heaven were the ones who intermarried with humans. I believe the sons of God were the fallen angels. Fallen angels are already evil, so fornication would not be out of the question for fallen beings.
So I don't think that Jesus' teaching about marriage and the angels in heaven have any bearing with the incident in Genesis chapter six.
Angels Bound with Chains
This teaching finally answers the question about who were the angels that were bound with chains in hell. They are mentioned in Jude verse 6:

And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Some teach that these angels are the third of the angels which were cast out of heaven during the war in heaven. If this is true, then they are no longer on the earth, because according to this scripture they are bound with chains and kept in darkness. According to Peter, they are in "hell" (2 Peter 2:4). The word hell as found in this passage is the Greek word tartarus, which means prison. If these fallen angels went to prison then who are the evil spirits that we are fighting with today?
According to Jude these angels abandoned their own home. There is a big difference between abandoning one’s home and being kicked out of one’s home. The war in heaven depicts Satan's angels as being kicked out of heaven. They did not voluntarily abandon heaven. No, they were expelled against their wishes. So this scripture could not be referring to the war in heaven.
The phrase abandoned their own home could also mean "disrobed themselves." The angels that Jude refers to are certain fallen angels who had committed the sin of disrobing themselves of their celestial bodies and taking upon themselves the bodies of corrupted flesh so that they could have sex with the daughters of men.
Jude obviously had these angels in mind, because he associates these angels with the perverted people of Sodom and Gomorrah:

...these [angels] he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion... (verses 6-7)

Notice that Jude says, In a similar way. Then he goes on to describe the sexual perversion of Sodom and Gomorrah. In other words, he says that Sodom and Gomorrah committed the similar, sexual sins of these fallen angels. He clearly links the fallen angels with sexual perversion.
Peter, when writing about these same angels, associates them with the times of Noah, which is the time when the sons of God came to the daughters of men.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven other; (2 Peter 2:4-5)


Demons are the Spirits of the Nephilim
Many Christians would agree with me at this point, but they would question my conclusion about demons being the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, even though the book of Enoch specifically declares this. They may disagree by saying, "You can't prove anything by the book of Enoch. You must prove it by the Bible."
And to that argument, I agree! At the same time, skeptics must understand that the book of Enoch was highly regarded by the Jews in Jesus’ day and by the apostles. The Apostle Jude, in fact, quotes from it:

Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him." (verses 14-15)

How did Jude know what Enoch prophesied? After all, the Bible never mentions one word that Enoch spoke. The only reference to Enoch in the Old Testament is in Genesis 5:18-24. Read it and you’ll find no reference to this prophecy which Jude mentions. The Bible just mentions the fact that Enoch walked with God and was no more, because God took him away. Nothing is mentioned about his prophesying.
So how did Jude know that Enoch had prophesied these words? He knew it because the book of Enoch mentions it. My point is simple: The book of Enoch was widely known during the days of the Apostles, and they freely quoted from it thus giving the book credibility.
This doesn’t mean that the book of Enoch deserves to be part of the canon of Scripture; nevertheless, we should analyze its teaching about demons. And since it teaches that demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, we should consider this view. I know of no other view that is as credible.
Tormentors
What are demons after all? They are tormentors. This is what the name Nephilim means. It not only means giants, but it also carries with it the meaning of tormentors, bullies, and tyrants. So just the name itself implies that these are demon spirits.
There is something else that Genesis 6:4 says which most people simply overlook.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men...

Notice that the Nephilim were on the earth in those days. Those days were the days preceding the flood. However, Genesis also says that they were on the earth afterward. In other words, they were on the earth after the flood. Genesis 7:21 says that all mankind perished in the flood, so how could they have survived the flood?
There is only one explanation: They remained on the earth in the form of disembodied spirits.
Someone might say, "Wait a minute, there were also giants during the days of David. Goliath was a giant, so Moses was referring to the giants in David’s day." Moses could not be referring to the giants in David’s day because Moses had long died before David. So he could not have been writing about Goliath.
Someone might say, "There were giants in the promise land during the days of Moses."
No there weren’t. It was the rebels who declared that there were giants in the promised land.

"...All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim)... (Numbers 13:32-33)

The people who declared that the Nephilim were in the land were the doubters. Their words were exaggerations and misrepresentations. These doubt-peddlers were trying to evoke fear in the hearts of the Israelites.
The people in the land were not the Nephilim; they were descendants of Anak, not the descendants of the sons of God. These were from a different genealogical line.
Half Human, Half Angel
Let's go back to Genesis 6:4. The Nephilim were on the earth after the flood. Their bodies were destroyed by the flood, but their spirits remained.
You see, these Nephilim were half human and half angel. We know that when a human dies, he goes either to heaven or hell. But what about these beings who are neither fully human or fully angelic? Where would they go when they died?
They went nowhere. They stayed on the earth. They are the demon spirits that walk through the earth, looking for bodies to inhabit. They know that one day they will be cast into the pit when their time comes. Demons cried out to Jesus, "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" (Matthew 8:29).
There is an appointed time for their punishment. It is not now. So we must still deal with demon spirits.
It is important to understand the difference between demons and fallen angels, because you deal with them differently. You cast out demons, but you pray to God for Him to deal with the fallen angels, just like Daniel did in Daniel 10.
In concluding this article, is there anything practical which we can learn from knowing the origin of demons? Is there any down-to-earth benefit in knowing that demons are the offspring of fallen angels who had sex with women? Yes, demons are like their fathers—they gravitate more to sexual sins than to any other kinds of sins.
If you want to open yourself up to demons, then practice sexual immorality, and demons will hang around you. Demons are sex-hungry.
This might explain why the mad man of Gerasenes was naked, and when the demons left him, he clothed himself (Mark 5:15). This why Mary of Magdalene—through being a prostitute—had opened herself to seven demons (Mark 16:9). Sexual perversion opens the door to demons.
Most of the hideous mass murderers were in bondage to sexual perversion. We wonder how in the world could someone kill dozens of people. What could make them do such a thing? Demons could do it. When demons are in control, humans will stoop to anything. Demons can drive people to commit horrible acts that defy human comprehension and sensibility.
Sexual sins can expose people to these demons. When you live free from sexual sins, you close the door to many demons.

LoTec
01-28-2010, 06:28 PM
Thanks Zooruka

Koolish
01-30-2010, 09:57 PM
secret societies control everything is just as dumb as thinking secret societies control nothing.