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EAGLE EYE
02-05-2010, 03:06 AM
Has this topic been dicussed? I think its a rather important one..



Original source: http://www.kaichang.net/2007/10/the-white-liber.html



The White Liberal Conundrum

Anti-racism is a rewarding but grueling journey which must be consciously undertaken and intrepidly pursued (both inwardly and outwardly) if one hopes to make serious progress along its twisting passageways and steep inclines. There's no static end-condition at which an anti-racist can arrive and definitively declare, "Hallelujah! I am Not A Racist!" Rather, it's a lifelong process of historical education, vigilant self-interrogation, personal growth, and socio-political agitation. Racism fractures our world and our own intactness; anti-racism seeks to proactively treat these bleeding wounds and restore the integrity of our humanity.
As I've often noted, many white liberals remain oblivious to the depth and breadth of anti-racist work, opting to hide behind the delusion that anyone who votes for Democrats and doesn't have a pointy hood in the closet is "a good guy" in the movement toward greater social justice — as though the Democratic Party (http://skepticalbrotha.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/any-thoughts/) is some bastion of progressivism and not one of two hands strangling US polity on behalf of the ruling class and the corporate-political establishment which sponsors its power. Some might be surprised to learn that when people of color talk about racism amongst ourselves, white liberals often receive a far harsher skewering than white conservatives or overt racists. Many of my POC friends would actually prefer to hang out with an Archie Bunker-type who spits flagrantly offensive opinions, rather than a colorblind (http://temple3.wordpress.com/2007/10/08/nothing-to-do-with-race/) liberal whose insidious paternalism, dehumanizing tokenism, and cognitive indoctrination ooze out between superficially progressive words. At least the former gives you something to work with, something above-board to engage and argue against; the latter tacitly insists on imposing and maintaining an illusion of non-racist moral purity which provides little to no room for genuine self-examination or racial dialogue.
Countless blogospheric discussions on racism amply demonstrate the manner in which many white liberals start acting victimized and angry (http://www.theunapologeticmexican.org/glosario.html#magikattax) if anyone attempts to burst their racism-free bubble, oftentimes inexplicably bringing up non-white friends, lovers, adopted children, relatives, ancestors; dismissing, belittling, or obtusely misreading substantive historically-informed analysis of white supremacism as either "divisive rhetoric" or "flaming"; downplaying racism as an interpersonal social stigma and bad PR, rather than an overarching system of power under which we all live and which has socialized us all (http://www.genderracepower.com/?p=228); and threatening to walk away from discussion if persons of color do not comform to a narrow white-centered comfort zone. Such people aren't necessarily racists in the hate-crime sense of the word, but they are usually acting out social dynamics created by racism and replicating the racist social relationships they were conditioned since birth to replicate.
Of course not all white liberals are like this. I'd say that a significant minority of white liberals are actually interested in learning about anti-racism once properly exposed to it. This requires enough humility to admit that people of color have something to teach white folks, a concept that many whites struggle with because racism teaches us that whiteness is the seat of authoritative knowledge, while brownness is the repository of murky musical mysticism which whiteness may dip into at will for spiritual support and servile entertainment. Nevertheless, some white folks manage to claw and bootstrap their way out of their own conditioning, opening their hearts and minds to previously unseen worlds from which the voices and stories of people of color emerge; studying and observing the profound effects of racist society on their own perceptual prisms and on the shape of the world (http://slanttruth.com/2007/10/03/the-common-elements-of-oppression/); and consciously, steadily working to counteract those effects. Such people become allies to people of color.
From what I can see, though, a solid majority of white liberals maintain a fairly hostile posture toward anti-racist discourse and critique, while of course adamantly denying this hostility. Many white liberals consider themselves rather enlightened for their ability to retroactively support the Civil Rights movement and to quote safely dead anti-racist icons (http://slanttruth.com/2007/10/03/on-civil-rights-leaders-that-are-loved-and-conveniently-dead/), even though their present-day physical, intellectual, and political orbits remain mostly segregated. They somehow take pride in being more "down with the brown" than their conservative brethren; indeed they exhibit a certain strange glee in highlighting and exploiting the "macaca" and "call me" moments of their political opponents. Armed with "diversity" soundbites and melanin-inclusive photo-ops, they seek electoral, financial, and public relations support from people of color. Yet the consistent outcome of their institution-building agendas is to deprioritize (http://blacksmythe.com/blog/2007/09/30/a-few-more-things-about-that-white-progressive-blogosphere/) and marginalize our voices, perspectives, experiences, concerns, cultures, and initiatives. When you get right down to it, the unrecognized political reality is that most white liberals have more in common with white conservatives — social cues, family ties, cognitive biases, cultural backdrops, etc. — than they do with people of color. I'm calling this tangle of contradictions the white liberal conundrum.
Obviously the record of white liberals when it comes to racism isn't good. Now I know that white folks frequently bemoan the guilt-laden burden of inheriting the racist legacy of their predecessors; to which I can only respond: If white folks disavow and destroy all the systemic advantages and interlocking privileges and perks of whiteness, then they're off the hook! But you can't enjoy the lifelong fruits of the legacy while disowning the accountability, right? That's not how it works.
For people of color, the white liberal conundrum manifests as an ongoing and often exhausting struggle to determine the extent to which they can or should work with, or trust, white liberals. Some feel that it's a waste of time, that most white folks will never get it and those who do will find their way into POC-led movements on their own. Others believe that some modicum of energy should be extended toward bringing white persons (http://www.prometheus6.org/node/18197) of good will on board anti-racism and forging common ground. I'm not really sure myself, but I do know that either way, communities of color are going to be on the move and organizing, resisting the racist social order with ingenuity and hope, even as white supremacist imperialism heaps its abuse (http://brownfemipower.com/?p=1880)as it always has (http://www.intrapolitics.org/node/64): outside of the imperious gaze of the mainstream; advanced by the tireless efforts of innumerable anonymous activists, organizers, visionaries, artists, collaborators, innovators; continually appropriated and/or sabotaged by the political and media establishment; reduced and glossed over by mainstream journalists and historians as the miraculous mojo magic of establishment-anointed "leaders" (http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w071008&s=olopade100907); and despite all that, continually inspiring vibrant cultural scenes, enabling potent spiritual networks, and undertaking positive socio-political interventions and transformations. upon dark bodies around the world. Anti-racist progress will continue to occur
For those white liberals and progressives who become serious about extracting racism from their worlds and their lives, who wish to participate in the dismantling of white supremacy, the white liberal conundrum usually culminates in some sort of series of crossroads (http://ilykadamen.blogspot.com/2007/05/preview-of-coming-attractions.html) and reckonings; they're often forced to make tough decisions about which of their previous alliances and networks — newly illuminated and often unfavorably recontextualized by anti-racist analysis — are worth trying to maintain, which are too invested in the distortions of the white lens (http://www.theunapologeticmexican.org/glosario.html#whitelens) to salvage, and which new directions and networks to pursue.
The good news for those who wish to embark upon (http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-Learning-Anti-Racism-Developmental-Approach/dp/0807736376) the anti-racist journey is that there's plenty (http://www.rachelstavern.com/) of (http://whyaminotsurprised.blogspot.com/2006/08/for-white-folks-how-to-become-ally.html) help (http://www.timwise.org/) along (http://www.racialicious.com/) the (http://allywork.solidaritydesign.net/) way. The literature on anti-racist history, theory, and practice is voluminous. In the intertube age, it's not all that hard to find. White liberals who have no interest in engaging this vital body of knowledge, who refuse to incorporate it into their political vision and agendas, cannot be considered allies to people of color; they shouldn't act surprised when not all that many persons of color show up for their parties, contribute to their causes, or buy into their narratives. On the other hand, those who have the courage to allow themselves to be transformed by anti-racist consciousness have a shot at escaping the white liberal conundrum; they turn their critical powers upon their own lives, minds, and hearts first; they listen and read and reflect with seering honesty; and thus they begin to recognize — and actively oppose — the breadth and depth of racism's consistent, dehumanizing, body-shattering impact on the shape of this wounded world.


Posted by Kai at 04:33 PM | Permalink (http://www.kaichang.net/2007/10/the-white-liber.html) ShareThis (javascript:void(0))

ALCATRAZ
02-05-2010, 03:32 AM
white people problems


its bigger den hip hop

Uncle Steezo
02-05-2010, 08:09 AM
this is what sunny has been saying for years

whitey
02-05-2010, 09:18 AM
a lot of people just dont care either way. people are people. everything is socially constructed. most all of the way we (everyone, any color) think about things is to some extent predetermined by humans who lived before we were born.

just gotta think of it like that, because nothing really matters.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-05-2010, 09:30 AM
you, just like da ghetto nigga, we just products of our own environment yo..

we aint ask fo dis nahmean

we keepin it real doe

EAGLE EYE
02-05-2010, 09:59 AM
this is what sunny has been saying for years

But very vaguely.

EAGLE EYE
02-05-2010, 10:00 AM
white people problems


its bigger den hip hop


I bet you didn't read it.

IrOnMaN
02-05-2010, 10:15 AM
you, just like da ghetto nigga, we just products of our own environment yo..

we aint ask fo dis nahmean

we keepin it real doe

Real Ebonics.

TSA
02-05-2010, 10:43 AM
wow. im suprised to see white ppl dicussing racism from a white person's perspective and bringing issues to the table.

this never happens.


but i'll say i agree with the fag that wrote this. black ppl after years of personal and social racism are fully convinced that all white ppl are racist, and if you were black you'd feel the same way too, but the annoying racists to me are the ones that are trying to prove they're not racist or that race doesn't 'matter'.


these ppl are fags, they usually adopt some random zambian or korean kid, marry an asian, and wear dashikis.

actually, i can't pick the type of racist i dislike the most, but these guys rank up there. i would rather have you be openly racist so that you and i can keep distance, but when you're TRYING to show your not racist, it takes very little for you to snap and expose your racist fag ways, making you a fake ass racist which will always be worst then a real ass racist.

TSA
02-05-2010, 10:53 AM
white ppl don't know that being racist goes beyond saying racist stuff.

for example. everyone at my work except a hick few are these same type of 'im not racist' fags. they're all racist. every single white co-worker of mine.

everytime a patient (i work at a mental house) tries to attack me, insults me, or starts coming after me, they hold ME back and start signalling me to calm down when im visibly the calmest guy in the room cause im from a place that i was robbed by the police 30 times in 1 day and a fuckin inbreed fat kid isn't going to make me flinch.

they do it cause im young and im black and there's cameras, so they think that im going to 'flip out' and 'get mad' cause im black. What's dumb is that i was hired to restrain these fags if they got BUCK and im more able to do it cause they're fucking 49 with a bad knee.


the day before yesterday it was small woman cause held me back when i retard was charging at me.

the retards charge at everyone, its just when im involved that staff members get held back. this is racist, stupid, and dangerous to everyone involved and if a camera see me being held back i can be in serious trouble cause it will look like im doing something that needs being held back.


these are all ppl that will swear to you they're not racist.

ALCATRAZ
02-05-2010, 02:13 PM
are there any studies as to why white people off themselves more than blacks

Aesop Chi Odi
02-05-2010, 02:18 PM
“upon dark bodies around the world. Anti-racist progress will continue to occur”

Lets be honest, its Anti Black progress. We are the most hated people on the planet. Its our own ignorance that maintains our condition at this point though. - Odi


“For those white liberals and progressives who become serious about extracting racism from their worlds and their lives, who wish to participate in the dismantling of white supremacy,”

We had sympathizers during slavery. That did not stop slavery. - Odi

“But you can't enjoy the lifelong fruits of the legacy while disowning the accountability, right? That's not how it works.”

No Negro that its exactly how it works. Word for fucking word. - Odi


“If white folks disavow and destroy all the systemic advantages and interlocking privileges and perks of whiteness, then they're off the hook!”

Yet another inadvertent admission of ignorance. The facts don’t support this. We can achieve everything that we need to without them giving up who they are. That’s an unrealistic request and its never going to happen. Never nigga. - Odi



“When you get right down to it, the unrecognized political reality is that most white liberals have more in common with white conservatives — social cues, family ties, cognitive biases, cultural backdrops, etc. — than they do with people of color. I'm calling this tangle of contradictions the white liberal conundrum.”

This political reality was identified before. Why give it a new characterization?.
White people hate themselves fam. Did you consider that one?

Given that they have this history of aggressive behavior towards members of their own culture. Barbaric intra-cultural behavior. WTF makes you think that this is the problem.
They treat themselves like shit so a cultural divide don’t mean jack to them buddy.

I don’t understand Mexican culture at all but I have enough morality to treat them with respect.

Make sense?

See what I mean? - Odi

“This requires enough humility to admit that people of color have something to teach white folks, a concept that many whites struggle with because racism teaches us that whiteness is the seat of authoritative knowledge, while brownness is the repository of murky musical mysticism which whiteness may dip into at will for spiritual support and servile entertainment.”

It’s not them that needto change, its us. If any of them would like to join in helping us to affect that change that’s cool with me. I’ll be damned if I am going to allow any of us to beg them to be a better person for my peoples sake. Fuck that gay shit. Straight faggotry.

Let those who want to continue to be carriers of a backward perspective do so. We are now in a position to change the relationship without changing them so fuck them. Let them die with that Stupidity in tow. See what type of options it accords them in the next
Life. - Odi

“You don’t get liberated through morality. You get liberated through power.” – Kwame Ture

"The only protection against INJUSTICE in man is POWER -- Physical, financial and scientific." - Marcus Garvey

ALCATRAZ
02-05-2010, 02:19 PM
lol @ racism at work

i can't count how many times i've said something that caught someones attention or did something out of the ordinary and the crackers first response is "are you on crack?!" ....


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Aesop Chi Odi
02-05-2010, 02:29 PM
.

EAGLE EYE
02-05-2010, 05:55 PM
“upon dark bodies around the world. Anti-racist progress will continue to occur”

Lets be honest, its Anti Black progress. We are the most hated people on the planet. Its our own ignorance that maintains our condition at this point though. - Odi


“For those white liberals and progressives who become serious about extracting racism from their worlds and their lives, who wish to participate in the dismantling of white supremacy,”

We had sympathizers during slavery. That did not stop slavery. - Odi

“But you can't enjoy the lifelong fruits of the legacy while disowning the accountability, right? That's not how it works.”

No Negro that its exactly how it works. Word for fucking word. - Odi


“If white folks disavow and destroy all the systemic advantages and interlocking privileges and perks of whiteness, then they're off the hook!”

Yet another inadvertent admission of ignorance. The facts don’t support this. We can achieve everything that we need to without them giving up who they are. That’s an unrealistic request and its never going to happen. Never nigga. - Odi



“When you get right down to it, the unrecognized political reality is that most white liberals have more in common with white conservatives — social cues, family ties, cognitive biases, cultural backdrops, etc. — than they do with people of color. I'm calling this tangle of contradictions the white liberal conundrum.”

This political reality was identified before. Why give it a new characterization?.
White people hate themselves fam. Did you consider that one?

Given that they have this history of aggressive behavior towards members of their own culture. Barbaric intra-cultural behavior. WTF makes you think that this is the problem.
They treat themselves like shit so a cultural divide don’t mean jack to them buddy.

I don’t understand Mexican culture at all but I have enough morality to treat them with respect.

Make sense?

See what I mean? - Odi

“This requires enough humility to admit that people of color have something to teach white folks, a concept that many whites struggle with because racism teaches us that whiteness is the seat of authoritative knowledge, while brownness is the repository of murky musical mysticism which whiteness may dip into at will for spiritual support and servile entertainment.”

It’s not them that needto change, its us. If any of them would like to join in helping us to affect that change that’s cool with me. I’ll be damned if I am going to allow any of us to beg them to be a better person for my peoples sake. Fuck that gay shit. Straight faggotry.

Let those who want to continue to be carriers of a backward perspective do so. We are now in a position to change the relationship without changing them so fuck them. Let them die with that Stupidity in tow. See what type of options it accords them in the next
Life. - Odi

“You don’t get liberated through morality. You get liberated through power.” – Kwame Ture

"The only protection against INJUSTICE in man is POWER -- Physical, financial and scientific." - Marcus Garvey


You made some reasonable points and probably should of put them in a different font color. When the articles author wrote:

“If white folks disavow and destroy all the systemic advantages and interlocking privileges and perks of whiteness, then they're off the hook!”


Im pretty sure he was projecting some sarcasm.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-05-2010, 06:03 PM
its stupid to think that any form of prejudice existed only when the white man came to power.

Europe was attacked on all sides from everywhere....

the notion of europe as a united WHITE whole is ridiculous, history proves this.



Basically you have bitter black americans trying to turn this into something its not cuz they dont like their history in America.

attempting to 'flip the script' so to speak.

Anyone with a brain and the ability to think abstractly realizes this bullshit trick. They all do this.....its really a human thing.

That takes everyone off the hook

EAGLE EYE
02-05-2010, 06:30 PM
I guess when your white you can take two paths in life..


A.) Take that mind bending journey through life where you try to reach a deeper understanding of the pain, persecution, and injustice certain cultures endure daily. Try to enlighten yourself, connect with these people on the most basic emotional level and work towards a common goal of getting them up to the exact standards of living you take for granted. Still... you will never truly embody or grasp it 100% nor will YOU make any major strives in turning your fellow friends and family onto such a path. (Good luck with that)



B.) Dismiss everything and anything. Play KING OF THE HILL and keep your spot. We all are gonna die anyways.

diggy
02-05-2010, 08:45 PM
Robbie, good article.

I agree with the author completely.

EAGLE EYE
02-05-2010, 10:08 PM
Thanks. This is probably the most dismissed topic of our era. Once this is burned-in. its pretty easy to weed out the worms from the crop. Don't get too excited though..

EAGLE EYE
02-06-2010, 07:44 PM
everytime a patient (i work at a mental house) tries to attack me, insults me, or starts coming after me, they hold ME back and start signalling me to calm down when im visibly the calmest guy in the room cause im from a place that i was robbed by the police 30 times in 1 day and a fuckin inbreed fat kid isn't going to make me flinch.



Maybe they are just trying to prevent retard on retard violence

Prolifical ENG
02-06-2010, 08:42 PM
Maybe they are just trying to prevent retard on retard violence

I heard that a real retard strength is high. That is, they dont realize their own strength if they go all ape shit. I dont know who would be easier to hold back.

TeknicelStylez
02-06-2010, 09:54 PM
in all honesty, i think we should be segregated, just let us do our thing and you can do yourthing.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-06-2010, 10:16 PM
yea???


We have that....its called, North America vs. South America

get da fuck out spic

TeknicelStylez
02-06-2010, 10:32 PM
I smell another KTL ban coming, you gonna cry again this time Vicky?

EAGLE EYE
02-07-2010, 01:50 AM
in all honesty, i think we should be segregated, just let us do our thing and you can do yourthing.


That idea will never fly especially with the growing amount of interracial marriages.

diggy
02-07-2010, 02:22 AM
Here's an idea - those who think they should be segregated should back up their thoughts with action and segregate themselves from the rest of us.

Asking others who do not believe in segregation to segregate themselves from those who believe in it is backward.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-07-2010, 09:11 AM
I heard that a real retard strength is high. That is, they dont realize their own strength if they go all ape shit. I dont know who would be easier to hold back.

True story, I got punched in the face by a giant retard once, and it was really weak.

TeknicelStylez
02-07-2010, 10:00 AM
Here's an idea - those who think they should be segregated should back up their thoughts with action and segregate themselves from the rest of us.

Asking others who do not believe in segregation to segregate themselves from those who believe in it is backward.

Yea I didn't mean like that, like force people to do things. I meant like we can simply opt out of white society if we feel like its bullshit. You know as well as I know there's black/brown people out there that's whiter than whitey, same agenda and everything.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-07-2010, 10:04 AM
your white, your nto brown.

TeknicelStylez
02-07-2010, 10:05 AM
And the only reason That wouldn't happen is because just like 400 years ago. White people can't play buisness man and worker, if there isn't poor minorities. Capitalism needs an inner city, and extreme lower class in order to have an extreme higher class. On top of that who's going to sell their drugs and. Buy their guns? They need us to be filthy rich, smh.

whitey
02-07-2010, 10:30 AM
Yea I didn't mean like that, like force people to do things. I meant like we can simply opt out of white society if we feel like its bullshit. You know as well as I know there's black/brown people out there that's whiter than whitey, same agenda and everything.


opt out of the united states then bruh. but naaah you want its benefits. but want to shit on the white people that made it. smh.

TeknicelStylez
02-07-2010, 10:36 AM
i would if i had the money and a passport to get the fuck out of this babylon shit...

your benefits don't mean shit if you don't have money dumb ass

Uncle Steezo
02-07-2010, 10:43 AM
opt out of the united states then bruh. but naaah you want its benefits. but want to shit on the white people that made it. smh.

the overwhelming majority of white accomplishments were made on the sweat and blood of others.
read maslow.


and this "love it or leave it" mentality is the most unamerican garbage. the right to object, protest and work toward change is the foundation of american law.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-07-2010, 10:47 AM
please...u pick some cotton on some shitty plantation in the south and you think you built something.

most plantation owners were broke ass scrubs

Olive Oil Goombah
02-07-2010, 10:51 AM
i would if i had the money and a passport to get the fuck out of this babylon shit...

your benefits don't mean shit if you don't have money dumb ass

passports are not expensive at all.....since you so gangsta, slang a couple of rocks nigga, or just rob some white suburban kid.

u can have a passport within a few weeks...all you need is like 100 dollars. Cmon dude you got a job.


U love it here and you kno it

TeknicelStylez
02-07-2010, 10:56 AM
Somebody ban this faggot already...

Yea retard head, because all I need is 100 dollar passport and I can start a brand new life in a new country. I'll just beg for change there till I get enough money for an apt. You're a fucking retard.

It's a multi thousand dollar process to relocate in america, let alone internationally.

Uncle Steezo
02-07-2010, 11:02 AM
please...u pick some cotton on some shitty plantation in the south and you think you built something.

most plantation owners were broke ass scrubs



*throws nicks friendship bracelet in the trash*

Olive Oil Goombah
02-07-2010, 11:05 AM
no.........oh gavin no......



ITS THE FUCKING PUERTO RICANS FAULT

Olive Oil Goombah
02-07-2010, 11:10 AM
Somebody ban this faggot already...

Yea retard head, because all I need is 100 dollar passport and I can start a brand new life in a new country. I'll just beg for change there till I get enough money for an apt. You're a fucking retard.

It's a multi thousand dollar process to relocate in america, let alone internationally.


You are such a pussy. Now you want me banned because im hitting you with the cold hard truth.

You are not a hard ass. Your a whiny bitch complaining to me on the internet.

1000 dollars? u can't come up with that?


come on city hustla...maybe you shouldnt have taken that cross country trip.

TeknicelStylez
02-07-2010, 11:28 AM
Done with arguing with old faggots from cleveland... suicide already, you're never going to get married and have kids, your life is worthless, you might as well die now.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-07-2010, 12:21 PM
Done with arguing with old faggots from cleveland... suicide already, you're never going to get married and have kids, your life is worthless, you might as well die now.

wow you're so bitter and angry. I'm only trying to help you son. Give you some tough love. Your just mad at the world and 'crackers' right now when you need to take a good look in the mirror.

Did you envision yourself working at Red Lobster?

Are you a gangsta?

Do you really agree with the gangsta lifestyle?

Do you want to kill people?

What is the real reason you haven't gotten a passport yet?

Do you really take the time to save money, open a bank account?


Son, i can help you. I'm always willing to help fellow whites.

Living-jism
04-07-2010, 08:43 PM
I can't show my face at most local punk rock gigs now for talking about the same shit. I am "the chink that hates white people". White people are as reactionary as anyone else they accuse.

Compulsion
04-08-2010, 05:13 AM
TSA you have the most racist mindset of anyone posting here, only because you don't really seem to understand it. Which makes it all that much worse.

Edgar Erebus
04-09-2010, 01:15 AM
Read through all three pages and found one sentence with which I agree.

White people are as reactionary as anyone else they accuse.

Can we finally all agree that we're all prejudiced, bigot, racist bastards, regardless of color, and live happily in hate ever after?

EAGLE EYE
04-09-2010, 02:43 AM
There is a great possibility that humans are hard-wired to be tribal, but at the same time we are merely an expression of a higher being.

Our present reality may very well be a slice of the trillions of different probabilities which can be played out. OR at some point a mutation may have occurred in nature which introduced these traits of hatred in some beings.

I don't know but I'd love to learn the answer some day. Everyone struggles with the concept of free will by differing degrees or extremes.

Edgar Erebus
04-09-2010, 03:08 AM
Quite frankly, one of the basic instincts among most animals is the pack one. When you live in an area with limited resources, it's necessary for you to survive to be in a group and not to allow other groups to fuck with yours, that's why people always behave like "my crew yay, ya crew boo". And about free will, it's always present, it's just that it's quite hard to fuck with instincts.

The more problematic part is the need to rationalize that and find some wordy excuses for acting in according with gut feeling, that's the shit that makes nukes.

Sense-A
05-01-2010, 03:39 PM
white liberals are idiots. But anyone of any other color who calls themselves a liberal is just as idiotic.

Liberals cannot compete in political debates. When they are cornered they cry racism racism because they are not smart enough to really argue the points.

Longbongcilvaringz
05-02-2010, 02:45 PM
Yeah dude, and you come off as real intelligent haha.

Sense-A
05-02-2010, 05:51 PM
Thanks yes I am. talk is cheap though. Start a political topic and I will destroy the liberal propaganda machine.

Longbongcilvaringz
05-04-2010, 04:17 AM
I agree, your talk is cheap.

But yeah man i'm sure you get all amped up about "destroying" dudes with your "political debating skills".

Sit down herb.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
05-05-2010, 05:28 PM
The problem I see is that liberals are not actually liberal and aren't protecting liberty.

Currently:
Democrats: Want to reduce all our rights to better control our standard of living.
Republicans: Want to reduce some rights to better control their standard of living.

Our Founders were neither.

Just look at what they said. Read through quotes from Benjamin Franklin, or hell, read the declaration of independence. Thomas Jefferson was a Democratic Republican, and they were Libertarians who believed in the middle class, not blindly throwing money at the underprivileged in policies that hurt the whole for their political vote in Tammany-esque policies. Or even worse abandoning the common man to pursue the interests of the wealthy few to line their pockets in the process.

We need longsighted intelligent politicians who protect our most rights and then let us sort ourselves out. We don't need a world class military, we need well armed (not just with physical weapons) intelligent citizens who are willing to enlist when we are directly threatened. We need to turn our taxes towards education. If we all are educated better we will all live better. We need to abandon the notions of America being a country. The true spirit of America is anyone who wants to be an American, and if it's handled right everyone would want to be an American and everyone could become an American. Then we can stop being the united states of America, and change our name to our true purpose: The United States of Humanity, One Nation, Indivisible, Under Liberty, Honor, Culture, and Justice.

Edgar Erebus
05-06-2010, 02:47 AM
Yes, but they were writing that in 1780 and today it's 2010. Big difference.

Sense-A
05-08-2010, 08:59 PM
My rule of thumb is that Republicans are bad but Demoncrats are even worse.

The most important votes are not the vote for president. Start off voting and campaigning for what you have greater control over. Your local school board, city councilmen, mayor, congressman in your local district, state senator, governor, hell even your student government. You must also explore beyond the two primary political parties in this country. And you must be willing to vote for someone who truly represents your political beliefs regardless of whether you believe that person to have a realistic chance of winning the election. If you only vote lesser of two evils, you lose either way. A two party system is just one candidate away from being a dictatorship. Also, if your state holds primaries then those are just as important as the november 2nd vote.

As far as the main article, I do not believe that white liberals are generally racist. However I do consider that the Demoncrats are more supportive of the welfare state which is a strong force that makes lower class people dependent on government. The more you depend on your own government, the less freedom you truly have. The welfare state needs to be phased out and done away with. Government should not be doing charity. Allow your friends, family, and church and not-for-profit organizations to do the charity. Government should not be redistributing wealth.

It is usually the liberals accusing the conservatives of being racist. So I found the article ironic to begin with. I disagree with the author for trying to play racism as though it comes from the white side against blacks because I find that the racism goes back and forth between races. Black people are just as racist as white people are, they just display it in different manners.

diggy
05-08-2010, 09:15 PM
Black people are just as racist as white people are, they just display it in different manners.


The oppressed and the oppressor are not the same.

Racism and equivalent retribution are also not the same.

Sense-A
05-08-2010, 09:44 PM
there are white people that are racist.

There are black people that are racist.

Just as there are white people who are evil, and there are black people that are evil.

It would be foolish to lump every man of white color as being racist and every man of a black complexion as being not racist. It is not that simple.

and whether evil be initial evil or retributive evil it is still evil. if you murder someone out of revenge, is it not murder?