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theheavens
02-05-2010, 04:58 PM
not many people like to think or talk about, because they think it's too far-fetched to occur frequently. but Rwanda, the Holocaust and Stalin proved otherwise. talk about some genocides that you know of, and which do you think is the worst so far... Genghis Khan might get the honor for most ruthless genocide leader. he literally wiped out civilizations

Mic Tyson
02-05-2010, 05:24 PM
the armenian genocide was fucked up. so was the native americans in north and south america

HANZO
02-05-2010, 05:55 PM
Ghengis Khan always asked for his opponents to surrender before he attacked, when they didnt he brutally wiped them out. he didnt have a particular hate for other races apart from the Chinese.

the so called Armenian genocide is bullshit in my mind. no nation in the world listens to the Turkish side of the story, no one weighs in what actually happened. nations jus listen to dickhead Armenians cause of their bitterness at the fact that they werent able to conquer Turkey.

theheavens
02-05-2010, 06:07 PM
Khan was hell-bent on dominating the world, and he probably came closer to achieving that than anybody else in history. not sure how much land he conquered by the time he died, but it was a lot. more than what Hitler occupied during WWII. though I'm not sure what he was planning to do if he had succeeded.

btw we studied the Assyrians in my western civilization class for a bit. those motherfuckers were crazy. according to the professor, they were the first army to come up with biological, chemical and even psychological warfare. they'd poison water supplies and shit. as for the "psychological warfare," it was basically them throwing paper to the enemy stating "surrender or die" lol

HANZO
02-05-2010, 06:20 PM
Khan was hell-bent on dominating the world, and he probably came closer to achieving that than anybody else in history. not sure how much land he conquered by the time he died, but it was a lot. more than what Hitler occupied during WWII. though I'm not sure what he was planning to do if he had succeeded.

Ghengis Khan was bothered with conquering China, the world was never on his agenda until his invasion of Persia. After he wiped out Persia he turnt to southern China. his empire at the time of his death was twice the size of Rome, his sons and grandchildren took it further with the invasion of the middle east and eastern europe. Its said during the mongolian era 40million ppl died. which is a fucking lot considering the world population at the time.

Shogah
02-07-2010, 03:45 PM
the so called Armenian genocide is bullshit in my mind. no nation in the world listens to the Turkish side of the story, no one weighs in what actually happened. nations jus listen to dickhead Armenians cause of their bitterness at the fact that they werent able to conquer Turkey.

i heard lot of talking about that armenian genocide on tv mostly, how turkey should accept responsibility and face with what they did and such...

I'm curious what is turkish side od the story?

HANZO
02-07-2010, 05:32 PM
i heard lot of talking about that armenian genocide on tv mostly, how turkey should accept responsibility and face with what they did and such...

I'm curious what is turkish side od the story?

The Turkish side is simple our empire was crumbling the Armenians spurred on and armed by Russia and France started attacking the Turks. because the Armenians were causing too much trouble in the east the Turks decided to send the Armenians on pretty much a death march to Syria.

Armenians call it Genocide, Turks say that both sides suffered casualties and remind everyone that the Armenians had actually started it all. There is no proof that the Ottomans planned to ethnically cleanse the Armenians. no concentration camps or shit like that. Turks dnt deny the death of Armenians, we say look a lot of shit happened but planting blame solely on us is ridiculous. Turkey says to the Armenians look lets sit down together go through our archives and see what happened, Armenian refuse to do so. they refuse to open their archives for historians to look through. you can go to Istanbul now and if you can read Ottoman you can look at every piece of Ottoman document that existed. We got nothing to hide but the Armenians obviously do.

Turkey will never ever accept it as genocide, the Armenian demands are beyond ridiculous. they start from $40billion in compensation, automatic Turkish citizenship for all Armenians and Turkey handing over Eastern Turkey to Armenia. never gonna happen.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-07-2010, 10:02 PM
Yea, I agree with Han.

theheavens
02-08-2010, 05:00 PM
do they have a number of native americans that were massacred?

spiggity_ace
02-08-2010, 08:32 PM
u guys should check out the east timor massacre, 200k plus murderedin such a small place, indonesia backed by USA basically destroyed them

Olive Oil Goombah
02-08-2010, 09:51 PM
do they have a number of native americans that were massacred?

they weren't massacred. 90% of them succumbed to smallpox. It ravaged them and it was a result of the culture clash. Many of the Europeans got malaria, while the Natives were immune to it.

Had it not been for smallpox, Natives would have had more of a stake in things.

theheavens
02-10-2010, 12:18 AM
maybe not the majority, but I've read about many native americans being taken, tribe by tribe, and massacred on the spot. and the smallpox wasn't an accident

Olive Oil Goombah
02-10-2010, 12:47 AM
yes it was.

Im not saying that they didnt give them infected blankets, but the overall spread of smallpox would have occured anyway with any kind of contact.


Its not like europeans didnt succomb to smallpox either, it just wasnt as deadly for them.

SL33
02-10-2010, 01:42 AM
maybe not the majority, but I've read about many native americans being taken, tribe by tribe, and massacred on the spot. and the smallpox wasn't an accident



i can co sign this. allthough i can't say that Nicky's claims are false.

theheavens
02-10-2010, 01:49 PM
even my history book in junior high mentioned native americans being massacred, and that's the last text you'd expect to make a claim like that... as for the smallpox being an accident or not, I'm not ready to give white folks the benefit of the doubt on that one. so those motherfuckers knew

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-10-2010, 06:58 PM
Not to lessen the gravity of the culling of Native Americans by colonists, but there were massacres on both sides. There was never an attempt at genocide. There were attempts at slavery, cultural annihilation, and of course reservations. But never genocide. We were planning to integrate, subjugate, or isolate them. But not annihilate. The smallpox thing was largely unintended with exceptions during a few battles where it was used militarily on an isolated scale.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-10-2010, 07:04 PM
even my history book in junior high mentioned native americans being massacred, and that's the last text you'd expect to make a claim like that... as for the smallpox being an accident or not, I'm not ready to give white folks the benefit of the doubt on that one. so those motherfuckers knew

Look....if you are going to debate a historical topic with a prejudice, you lose all credibility.

All sources indicate that most Native Americans, alarming amounts perished from smallpox. The spread of the disease was not a diabolical scheme by 'whites'.

The term 'whites' is also showing your ignorance because the same thing happened in South American and Mexico but to a little lesser extent because there were less Spanish and Portugese.


There were massacres on both sides, do not get it twisted.

Smallpox was a huge deciding factor, unintendedly.

If want to give the Europeans credit for that, than fine, but its basis is not very sturdy.



I realize that you are probably a racist person with 'issues with whitey', which is why you would be so adamant about a claim you reallly have no backing for.

But this is KTL after all, so I'll take it and you for what they both are.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Well the Brits did give them some small pox infected blankets in hopes they'd catch it at a couple forts but that's not really a genocide, just a common mean trick no different then Ghengis Khan's use of plague catapults leading to all of Europe catching the bubonic. Diseases are like fire, its very hard to control them.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-10-2010, 08:37 PM
i already stated that they did that.

TSA
02-11-2010, 01:15 AM
Only an ignorant would say what happened to the native americans wasn't a genocide.

in every aspect of the word it was a genocide. small pox was used as a deliberate weapon, there's documentation of this, so you can't say they 'caught small pox' all out of nowhere.

hundreds of villages were wiped out by state militias, civil militias, and the federal army by gun and cannon, the mid-western tribes in particular.
after centuries of deliberate genocide they started taking indian kids and basically forcing them to be white to speed up the process.

i didn't know all that about ghenis though.

its sad, but history will praise any murderer if given enough time.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-11-2010, 10:05 AM
the smallpox epidemic wasn't genocide.


Unless you want to give the English that much props.

Unless you want to think that the Spanish are that fuckin raw that 1,000 of them could wipe out 10 million Aztecs.

I think it was a fortunate accident.


and fuck genocide anyway. Its part of the way you do business.

Thats how God of the bible did business, so that means its something superior beings do.

TSA
02-11-2010, 10:17 AM
1,000 ppl killin 10 million ppl isn't raw, its 1000 ppl trying to kill 10 million ppl

idk what your definition of 'raw' is but if i intend to kill everyone at the wucorp GREET AND MEET for instance they'd all be dead cause i'd be a mother fucker trying to kill ppl and they wouldn't. This doesn't make me RAW, this makes me someone killing ppl.

the fact that saying a group of ppl murdered 10 million ppl is 'props' in 2010 western culture is all more reason that i can easily see white ppl doing this very deliberately.

small pox was used as a deliberate weapon. The spanish french and english traded blankets from small pox hospitals with deliberate intent to spread small pox to the native population.
in the midwest they not only attack villages, out of nowhere mind you, with military force, but there was a well publicized campaign to kill off the buffalo so that the natives will have nothing to eat and die off. but they said it was cause 'buffalo were getting in the way of trains' and ignorants wit 1840 educations believed it.

there's no argument

Olive Oil Goombah
02-11-2010, 01:35 PM
No there is a HUGE arguement, whether or not you'd like to admit it.

I won't deny that they had intentions of infecting indians.

But what I'm saying is that a couple of blankets didn't lead to the epidemic. That shit was obviously going to spread whether or not blankets were handed out in the first place.

It was part of the clash for good and bad.


I'm not going to explain the sarcasm of my previous post, you are smart enough to have recognized it yourself. Don't play coy.

Steak
02-11-2010, 01:43 PM
not many people like to think or talk about, because they think it's too far-fetched to occur frequently. but Rwanda, the Holocaust and Stalin proved otherwise. talk about some genocides that you know of, and which do you think is the worst so far... Genghis Khan might get the honor for most ruthless genocide leader. he literally wiped out civilizations

hitler had the right idea

SL33
02-11-2010, 02:53 PM
small pox was used as a deliberate weapon. The spanish french and english traded blankets from small pox hospitals with deliberate intent to spread small pox to the native population.
in the midwest they not only attack villages, out of nowhere mind you, with military force, but there was a well publicized campaign to kill off the buffalo so that the natives will have nothing to eat and die off. but they said it was cause 'buffalo were getting in the way of trains' and ignorants wit 1840 educations believed it.

there's no argument

rep'd

WARPATH
02-11-2010, 04:11 PM
Editorials about Native Americans

During the period surrounding the 1890 Ghost Dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance) movement and Wounded Knee Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre), Baum wrote two editorials about Native Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States) for the Aberdeen Saturday Pioneer which have provoked great controversy in recent times because of his suggestion that the safety of White settlers depended on the "extermination" of the remaining Indians.
The first piece was published on December 20, 1890, five days after the killing of the Lakota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_people) Sioux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sioux) holy man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_man), Sitting Bull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitting_Bull) (who was being held in custody at the time). Following is the complete text of the editorial:
Sitting Bull, most renowned Sioux of modern history, is dead.

He was not a Chief, but without Kingly lineage he arose from a lowly position to the greatest Medicine Man of his time, by virtue of his shrewdness and daring.

He was an Indian with a white man's spirit of hatred and revenge for those who had wronged him and his. In his day he saw his son and his tribe gradually driven from their possessions: forced to give up their old hunting grounds and espouse the hard working and uncongenial avocations of the whites. And these, his conquerors, were marked in their dealings with his people by selfishness, falsehood and treachery. What wonder that his wild nature, untamed by years of subjection, should still revolt? What wonder that a fiery rage still burned within his breast and that he should seek every opportunity of obtaining vengeance upon his natural enemies.

The proud spirit of the original owners of these vast prairies inherited through centuries of fierce and bloody wars for their possession, lingered last in the bosom of Sitting Bull. With his fall the nobility of the Redskin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_%28slang%29) is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them. The Whites, by law of conquest, by justice of civilization, are masters of the American continent, and the best safety of the frontier settlements will be secured by the total annihilation of the few remaining Indians. Why not annihilation? Their glory has fled, their spirit broken, their manhood effaced; better that they die than live the miserable wretches that they are. History would forget these latter despicable beings, and speak, in latter ages of the glory of these grand Kings of forest and plain that Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Fennimore_Cooper) loved to heroise.

We cannot honestly regret their extermination, but we at least do justice to the manly characteristics possessed, according to their lights and education, by the early Redskins of America.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum#cite_note-editorials-21)[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum#cite_note-22)
Following the December 29, 1890 massacre, Baum wrote a second editorial, published on January 3, 1891:
The peculiar policy of the government in employing so weak and vacillating a person as General Miles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_A._Miles) to look after the uneasy Indians, has resulted in a terrible loss of blood to our soldiers, and a battle which, at best, is a disgrace to the war department. There has been plenty of time for prompt and decisive measures, the employment of which would have prevented this disaster.

The Pioneer has before declared that our only safety depends upon the total extirmination [sic] of the Indians. Having wronged them for centuries we had better, in order to protect our civilization, follow it up by one more wrong and wipe these untamed and untamable creatures from the face of the earth. In this lies safety for our settlers and the soldiers who are under incompetent commands. Otherwise, we may expect future years to be as full of trouble with the redskins as those have been in the past.

An eastern contemporary, with a grain of wisdom in its wit, says that "when the whites win a fight, it is a victory, and when the Indians win it, it is a massacre." [22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum#cite_note-editorials-21)[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum#cite_note-23)
These two short editorials continue to haunt his legacy. In 2006, two descendants of Baum apologized to the Sioux nation for any hurt their ancestor had caused.[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum#cite_note-apology-24)
These editorials are the only known occasions on which Baum articulated such views. For example, aside from the vocabulary, he did acknowledge many Americans of non-White ancestry in The Woggle Bug Book, though in a stereotyped manner for the sake of comedy. The short story, "The Enchanted Buffalo", claims to be a legend of a tribe of bison, and states that a key element made it into legends of Native American tribes. Father Goose, His Book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Goose,_His_Book) contains poems such as "There Was a Little Nigger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger) Boy" and "Lee-Hi-Lung-Whan." In The Last Egyptian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Egyptian), Lord Roane uses "nigger" to insult the title character, while in The Daring Twins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daring_Twins), set in the American South (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_South), the only character to use the term is a boy from Boston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston) complaining that his mother uses their money to help "naked niggers in Africa." Baum mentions his characters' distaste for a Hopi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi) snake dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_dance) in Aunt Jane's Nieces and Uncle John (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jane%27s_Nieces_and_Uncle_John), but also deplores the horrible situation of Indian Reservations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Reservation).

WARPATH
02-11-2010, 04:44 PM
Not to lessen the gravity of the culling of Native Americans by colonists, but there were massacres on both sides. There was never an attempt at genocide. There were attempts at slavery, cultural annihilation, and of course reservations. But never genocide. We were planning to integrate, subjugate, or isolate them. But not annihilate. The smallpox thing was largely unintended with exceptions during a few battles where it was used militarily on an isolated scale.

Who was massacred on the Europeans side?

No there is a HUGE arguement, whether or not you'd like to admit it.

I won't deny that they had intentions of infecting indians.

But what I'm saying is that a couple of blankets didn't lead to the epidemic. That shit was obviously going to spread whether or not blankets were handed out in the first place.

It was part of the clash for good and bad.


I'm not going to explain the sarcasm of my previous post, you are smart enough to have recognized it yourself. Don't play coy.

You can't debate history with prejudice.

Their still trying to eliminate the tribes, even to this day. Language, culture, history, religion. We weren't allowed to practice our religion until 1978- almost a hundred years after the last so called "indian wars". Where 300 men women and children were massacred at Wounded Knee.

http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14520

Olive Oil Goombah
02-11-2010, 05:23 PM
rightfully so

Olive Oil Goombah
02-11-2010, 05:27 PM
by the way, your wizard of oz theory is totally incorrect.

WARPATH
02-12-2010, 10:48 AM
by the way, your wizard of oz theory is totally incorrect.

It's just to demonstrate the state of mind people were in back then.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-12-2010, 10:54 AM
i see, you are correct.


I suppose it was genocidal, thought it happen over a longer period of time.


I wonder why the Native perished so much from smallpox tho. I have heard it was the lack of genetic variation in the americas as opposed to the Eastern Hemisphere.



Your right, tho i'd say the height of white racism, English racism whatever u want to call it was around the turn of the century.

It was the generation that spawned the holocaust too. It was accepted doctrine.

WHen you think about it, they were so far advanced in terms of technology as opposed to how everwhere else in the world was way behind. It went to their heads, but they paid for it dearly and it took two world wars and near self annihilation to realize it.

WARPATH
02-12-2010, 11:28 AM
The best we can do is learn from the mistakes they made.

I see the devastation it left on us every time I walk outside. There is massive grave with over 300 bodies in less then 5 miles from my home.

A lot of our grand parents were beaten and molested in boarding schools. They were beaten when ever they spoke their native language. Their so traumatized by it they won't teach anyone else.

And as we start to mix in with the rest of America, they want to impose a blood quantum on our children so that they can't be considered tribal members, thus give up any legal rights we have as tribal members.

A lot of our lands were illegal seized....yet the government knows we still have a very legal claim in their court system to a lot of these places. That's why they are trying to drown out our voices. They only want us (culture, language, religion) to exist is in museums next to the Neanderthal exhibit.

LORD NOSE
02-12-2010, 12:03 PM
WHen you think about it, they were so far advanced in terms of technology as opposed to how everwhere else in the world was way behind.


nope - they was not more advanced in terms of technology


they had advanced killing machines

where they got them from can be argued

the slave advanced technology - not the slave master

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-14-2010, 12:28 AM
Again, its not a genocide. A genocide is when you try to eradicate a race. The American's never planned a genocide, never carried out a genocide, a genocide did not occur. There was no systematic culling. There was systematic removal and abuses, but its not a genocide.

Its a race war, its the worst thing America has ever done and there's a long list, but its not a genocide.

Sidenote:

Sunny your post above me is stupid as hell. You're dumb. The first nations (I like the Canadian Term for natives) were stone age people. The White Man arrived as Gunpowder and Steel man, we had clocks, and mills, and horses, and printing presses, and ships, and alcohol, and all manner of useful things.

The Natives weren't stupid by any means, but we were more advanced in technology. They were more isolated and didn't have the population pressures we did. They lived better, but they were certainly less "advanced" for better or worse.

Ultimately all of America belongs to William Sinclair since the Order of the Knights Templar claimed the continent in the 1300s. The Masons, Templars, and Sinclairs have been here longer then anyone else, and if you don't like them get the fuck off the continent.

There are many many odd things in America that link them here. There is a runined round church in NY. There is a viking runestone in I believe Minnesota. The native americans in a certain region have record of meeting with some semi divine person from across the ocean and they adopted his heraldry which is William Sinclairs almost identically. There are all sorts of odd carvings all over the place of either Norse or Medieval origin, and theres certainly something odd on Oak Island which is apparently where Sinclair had a lot of Templar loot buried.

diggy
02-14-2010, 12:56 AM
I wonder why the Native perished so much from smallpox tho. I have heard it was the lack of genetic variation in the americas as opposed to the Eastern Hemisphere.

History was written by many liars.

You might consider 'the natives' the only people here before the white man came, but did you know blacks were also here?

Many of 'the natives' exist in us (blacks) cuz we intermarried with them before and after the white man arrived. They never disappeared or died off as historians would like you to believe. They exist in me.

LORD NOSE
02-14-2010, 04:52 AM
You're dumb.




nigga fuck you



yall ain't have shit


it's fact get over it


this is why that bullshit white supremacy goes on cause these new young white idiots is still believing that their people were gods gift to the fuckin world


yall stole shit and took credit


nigga fuck you

Uncle Steezo
02-14-2010, 06:00 AM
^^^
thats what it boils down to.
the fact of the matter is that a bunch of euros came here and stole shit.
500 years later yall wanna say yall were massacred too.

thats like me breaking into your house then suing you cause you broke a louisville slugger over my back.

fuck your losses!

the devil is alive and kicking.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-14-2010, 12:18 PM
muh fuckaz is STILL bitter...


get over it, u cant change the past

Olive Oil Goombah
02-14-2010, 12:20 PM
History was written by many liars.

You might consider 'the natives' the only people here before the white man came, but did you know blacks were also here?

Many of 'the natives' exist in us (blacks) cuz we intermarried with them before and after the white man arrived. They never disappeared or died off as historians would like you to believe. They exist in me.


ahahaahahahah!!

dude there are plenty of whites who use this same bullshit....'I"m 1/23rd native!!!''


be a native dewd, if it makes u feel better....its not going to change the fact that whitey ran shit and oversaw everything.

jesus christ get over it...

listen to the 'voices' diggy

LORD NOSE
02-14-2010, 12:21 PM
we know the past can't be changed


pray that you are strong in the future

so that you'll be able to get over it

Olive Oil Goombah
02-14-2010, 12:33 PM
LOL


I know what you'd like to see happen, so in the back of my head, as far-fetched as it is from actually happening, I'm prepared for it, and people like you.

Everyone should be prepared.

I expect you to be prepared.


We should be prepared.


The voices sunny.....the voices...

LORD NOSE
02-14-2010, 12:52 PM
there is NO way in hell you can get prepared


feel secure for the moment though

Olive Oil Goombah
02-14-2010, 01:00 PM
you're right...im not going to prepare cuz you aint gonna do shit but erase posts i make in KTL


you have no power you never will


your just paranoid and bitter you play for a losing team.

LORD NOSE
02-14-2010, 02:22 PM
you're right...im not going to prepare cuz you aint gonna do shit but erase posts i make in KTL


you have no power you never will


your just paranoid and bitter you play for a losing team.


you are correct


you don't have to worry about me

Olive Oil Goombah
02-14-2010, 02:34 PM
chicken paprikash

WARPATH
02-14-2010, 04:29 PM
Again, its not a genocide. A genocide is when you try to eradicate a race. The American's never planned a genocide, never carried out a genocide, a genocide did not occur. There was no systematic culling. There was systematic removal and abuses, but its not a genocide.

Its a race war, its the worst thing America has ever done and there's a long list, but its not a genocide.



It's still happening right now. I see you doing your part.


Sidenote:

Sunny your post above me is stupid as hell. You're dumb. The first nations (I like the Canadian Term for natives) were stone age people. The White Man arrived as Gunpowder and Steel man, we had clocks, and mills, and horses, and printing presses, and ships, and alcohol, and all manner of useful things.


And with all of "your" technical avances you were still going to my ancestors to learn how to survive. LOL


The Natives weren't stupid by any means, but we were more advanced in technology. They were more isolated and didn't have the population pressures we did. They lived better, but they were certainly less "advanced" for better or worse.

So natives had less problems and yet they were the least "advanced" ones LOL. Isolated? How?

Ultimately all of America belongs to William Sinclair since the Order of the Knights Templar claimed the continent in the 1300s. The Masons, Templars, and Sinclairs have been here longer then anyone else, and if you don't like them get the fuck off the continent.

So now there weren't any natives here before the 1300's. LOL I don't know why i'm wasting my time. All of America belongs to one man....really?


There are many many odd things in America that link them here. There is a runined round church in NY. There is a viking runestone in I believe Minnesota. The native americans in a certain region have record of meeting with some semi divine person from across the ocean and they adopted his heraldry which is William Sinclairs almost identically. There are all sorts of odd carvings all over the place of either Norse or Medieval origin, and theres certainly something odd on Oak Island which is apparently where Sinclair had a lot of Templar loot buried.

People have always traded and shared culture throughout history. So what are you really trying to say here? Man just get the fuck out, this is where you belong:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

I'm sure they'd love you over there.

EAGLE EYE
02-14-2010, 09:25 PM
I dont ever really find a need to put down native people. I like them. They understand nature and that's the most important thing the average person has a disconnection with.

I love big cities, the architecture and that pulse, but the people who reside there will be the first to die (if our system fails us) since they lack primitive survival skills.


Im not talking about surviving bad neighborhoods.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-14-2010, 09:50 PM
I think native people are literally done and it was because of smallpox and not the greatness of the european conquesters.

Thats my opinion.

IM not defending 'whites' so black people dont get your panties in a knot, you're just making this debate annoying.

But i dont think genocide, or any attempt at it was the biggest factor in the success of the English.

It was the fortunate coincidence of smallpox and its ravaging effect on the native body.

Without it, they do not conquer America as easily. That is my opinion, and I have done some reading on this, so its not just a blind opinion.


I realize that KTL loves to find a scapegoat, and people in general love to find a scapegoat, but it clearly show that something like 90% of natives in certain areas perished from smallpox. Thats an insane number.....not even the plague of europe had a kill rate that high.

But this shit happens when cultures cross paths, transmission of disease.

EAGLE EYE
02-14-2010, 09:56 PM
Who can I blame for that asteroid that wiped out my period of Cretaceous?




Musta bin sum rednick aliens messin' around

diggy
02-14-2010, 10:56 PM
Ya, it's alive.

Back in the days the killing methods were direct, brutal and gruesome.

Now, they are more indirect and scientific with it - one could kill a person by systematically denying them jobs, education, a peaceful place to live, and other ways.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-15-2010, 03:20 PM
It's still happening right now. I see you doing your part.

That's not a fair statement and you know it. Its a shame we ever came to the American Continent, but it happened, it was bound to happen, and the things that happened have happened for thousands of years when cultures meet one another. Either they integrate or one gets destroyed. America pretty much had the latter happen.

And with all of "your" technical avances you were still going to my ancestors to learn how to survive. LOL

For the same reasons you died to smallpox. The environment was alien to us and the white leaders were idiots. But you weren't unified. You didn't resist with coordination and because of your own weaknesses and old hatreds against one another you didn't beat us. Had the Native Americans been largely united and fought a cohesive war in the beginning you'd probably have the United Nations of America instead of the USA. But you didn't fight a proper war. You didn't have a Ghengis Khan, but Tecumseh came damn close though, he could have been the Alexander the Great of his people had he been born a little earlier to unite the tribes and destroy the Colonies. He had the brilliance, the heroism, and he and the prophet to unite them, but he came too late. Had he been around a few decades earlier he'd have gotten a better shake.

So natives had less problems and yet they were the least "advanced" ones LOL. Isolated? How?

They didn't have modern technology or communications with other parts of the world. I'm not saying they were inferior, only behind. I said they weren't stupid, they just didn't do the things we did. They didn't need to. But it would have helped a lot if they wanted to keep their independence. If they had more unity and organization they would have had a bigger population from farming instead of a mix of farming and hunter gatherer. They were living the way man is supposed to, but it didn't get them any favors against the colonists. If there were more natives you'd have won. But there weren't because you had a thinly populated largely stone age people against a heavily populated gunpowder armed invader. Bows were like 10x the weapons that guns were. Longer range, better accuracy, and much higher rates of fire. The fact we ever made guns boggles my mind but we did.

So now there weren't any natives here before the 1300's. LOL I don't know why i'm wasting my time. All of America belongs to one man....really?

I'm just saying its complicated. There were many claims to different pieces of land over time. The Europeans have claims to the land which is approximately as far west as the Louisiana purchase was. Are there any exact dates of how long specific native american tribes had claims on certain regions. I mean the Natives didn't even understand the concept of land as property because the population hadn't reached densities that created those sorts of ideas. If they didn't think they owned the land and someone else thought they did wouldn't that other person own it... just out of logic.

People have always traded and shared culture throughout history. So what are you really trying to say here? Man just get the fuck out, this is where you belong:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

I'm sure they'd love you over there.

Yeah, cuz they luv people who are Irish Catholic and Eastern European descent so much...

Just because I think Native Americans got screwed by history doesn't mean they should get their land back. I don't think the Jews have any right to Palestine by God, but they took it by force, so I guess they have a right to have it until someone throws them out. But I'm not going to support them.

Its not like white people have a grudge against native Americans. The only anti native american thing I've EVER heard was my uncle was saying that Connecticut was getting shafted because the natives don't pay taxes to the state for their casinos or something like that and that it was really hurting the school system's budget where he lived. And it wasn't even anti native american, it was anti government for running things badly.

To my knowledge whites have no problems with Native Americans. We just have curiosity about them since full blooded natives are not a big part of the population.

Olive Oil Goombah
02-15-2010, 03:54 PM
u tell em white man

dont let them fool you into thinking they are victims

WARPATH
02-16-2010, 04:45 PM
That's not a fair statement and you know it. Its a shame we ever came to the American Continent, but it happened, it was bound to happen, and the things that happened have happened for thousands of years when cultures meet one another. Either they integrate or one gets destroyed. America pretty much had the latter happen.


I see you doing your part by spreading your version of history. You are trying to drown out my voice here. You do not acknowledge your own bigotry which this post is littered with.

For the same reasons you died to smallpox. The environment was alien to us and the white leaders were idiots. But you weren't unified. You didn't resist with coordination and because of your own weaknesses and old hatreds against one another you didn't beat us. Had the Native Americans been largely united and fought a cohesive war in the beginning you'd probably have the United Nations of America instead of the USA. But you didn't fight a proper war. You didn't have a Ghengis Khan, but Tecumseh came damn close though, he could have been the Alexander the Great of his people had he been born a little earlier to unite the tribes and destroy the Colonies. He had the brilliance, the heroism, and he and the prophet to unite them, but he came too late. Had he been around a few decades earlier he'd have gotten a better shake.

I did not die of smallpox.

LOL Natives were unified and organized. We did not hate each other. There were some tribes that had their differences, but we did not have the wide scale wars that were happening in the eastern hemisphere.

Your version of Native American history is warped. Many tribes defeated the United States Government in War. They were making it hard for the US to expand and the natives wanted peace so they could protect their families. The U.S. wanted them dead because they wanted gold and land which is why they lied in the PEACE treaties. Some of those treaties were actually forged by white settlers, dressed as natives to get them the 3/4 male vote that they needed to pass. It was genocide.


They didn't have modern technology or communications with other parts of the world. I'm not saying they were inferior, only behind. I said they weren't stupid, they just didn't do the things we did. They didn't need to. But it would have helped a lot if they wanted to keep their independence. If they had more unity and organization they would have had a bigger population from farming instead of a mix of farming and hunter gatherer. They were living the way man is supposed to, but it didn't get them any favors against the colonists. If there were more natives you'd have won. But there weren't because you had a thinly populated largely stone age people against a heavily populated gunpowder armed invader. Bows were like 10x the weapons that guns were. Longer range, better accuracy, and much higher rates of fire. The fact we ever made guns boggles my mind but we did.

The telephone was invented until 1870.

The internet was invented a hundred years later.

LOL modern communications? Really?

Here we again with that we shit. You didn't do anything, guns were invented in China.

You are correct though, they weren't stupid, just humane. They never encountered people that would just kill with no regard for human life.

You call GENOCIDE winning?


I'm just saying its complicated. There were many claims to different pieces of land over time. The Europeans have claims to the land which is approximately as far west as the Louisiana purchase was. Are there any exact dates of how long specific native american tribes had claims on certain regions. I mean the Natives didn't even understand the concept of land as property because the population hadn't reached densities that created those sorts of ideas. If they didn't think they owned the land and someone else thought they did wouldn't that other person own it... just out of logic.

Out of your warped logic I suppose.

The Natives didn't understand ownership of land because it wasn't in their culture, don't get it twisted.

Yeah, cuz they luv people who are Irish Catholic and Eastern European descent so much...

Just because I think Native Americans got screwed by history doesn't mean they should get their land back. I don't think the Jews have any right to Palestine by God, but they took it by force, so I guess they have a right to have it until someone throws them out. But I'm not going to support them.

Its not like white people have a grudge against native Americans. The only anti native american thing I've EVER heard was my uncle was saying that Connecticut was getting shafted because the natives don't pay taxes to the state for their casinos or something like that and that it was really hurting the school system's budget where he lived. And it wasn't even anti native american, it was anti government for running things badly.

Get their land back? LOL They never lost it. You think just because the government has a piece of paper they own the land? You think that land can't open up tomorrow and swallow your home? You don't think a tornado won't drop on your home? What about a flood to wipe your house off the face of the earth?

Why should natives pay taxes anyways? You should be paying me taxes.

To my knowledge whites have no problems with Native Americans. We just have curiosity about them since full blooded natives are not a big part of the population.

This exactly what I'm getting at. I was going to say this in my first post but I thought it was being unfair, so I erased it- Some white people want natives to be a curiosity in a museum next to the neanderthal exhibit. They don't acknowledge are contributions to history, science, culture, government and how we contributed to this countries growth.

theheavens
02-16-2010, 09:09 PM
https://eee.uci.edu/clients/tcthorne/anthro/indiantimes/images/article2_genocide.jpg

Native American genocide

http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/library/karekin/_gifs/hanged.jpg

Armenian genocide

http://mediamelon.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/holocaust-skeletons.jpg

The Holocaust

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/Ac.khmerrouge.jpg

Cambodian genocide

http://www.anarkismo.net/attachments/jan2009/hutu.jpg

Rwandan genocide

so...which was worse: politically, ethically, etc..?

Edgar Erebus
02-16-2010, 09:27 PM
You might consider 'the natives' the only people here before the white man came, but did you know blacks were also here?

Post references or it didn't happen.

Edgar Erebus
02-16-2010, 09:29 PM
picture

Native American genocide

picture

Armenian genocide

picture

The Holocaust

picture

Cambodian genocide

picture

Rwandan genocide

so...which was worse: politically, ethically, etc..?

Hmm, let me think. Is it worse if I kill a whole lot of people from racial, national or religious reasons? Hmmm.

theheavens
02-16-2010, 09:51 PM
...honestly, I was just about to ask that question: is it worse to kill for racial, ethnic or religious reasons?

Uncle Steezo
02-17-2010, 05:42 PM
all these reasons have an underlying motivator...

http://ndn3.newsweek.com/media/25/71014_MoneyHappiness_vl-vertical.jpg


which is the physical manifestation of POWER.

why does one seek power?

because he feels powerless.

powerlessness stems from fear.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-17-2010, 08:44 PM
Post references or it didn't happen.

Obviously it didn't happen, but what's the point of arguing it?

I say CHinese people were here before the American Indians.

Prove it didn't happen...

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-17-2010, 08:45 PM
all these reasons have an underlying motivator...

http://ndn3.newsweek.com/media/25/71014_MoneyHappiness_vl-vertical.jpg


which is the physical manifestation of POWER.

why does one seek power?

because he feels powerless.

powerlessness stems from fear.

What IS power? REAL power? IS it "bad" ?

Who desires powerlessness?

Uncle Steezo
02-17-2010, 10:44 PM
real power doesn't come from money or subjugation.

its like the diff between a guy who beats his wife to control her and a guy who's wife adores/obeys him because he treats her with love and respect.

if you need to dominate people be it physically or economically to get what you want, you are in fact powerless.



about the blacks in america thing...
my mom gave me this book the other week and i forgot it at her house.
http://www.sunrisetradingco.com/images/Black%20Indians.jpg

here's a link to some of the content.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0689809018/ref=sib_dp_ptu#reader-link

i guess it comes down to whether you define black as subsaharan west africans or if it just means dark skin with thick lips and wide noses.

cause there are plenty of people in this world who in 1964 would've been told to "sit in the back of the bus nigger"

WARPATH
02-18-2010, 11:05 AM
all these reasons have an underlying motivator...

http://ndn3.newsweek.com/media/25/71014_MoneyHappiness_vl-vertical.jpg


which is the physical manifestation of POWER.

why does one seek power?

because he feels powerless.

powerlessness stems from fear.

So the next question is:

Why are "they" so scared?

LORD NOSE
02-18-2010, 11:25 AM
So the next question is:

Why are "they" so scared?


the answer would scare most of the people on this site into a body ball

theheavens
02-18-2010, 12:11 PM
I think the cause of genocide is simply the fear of the unknown. you don't understand that other ethnic/religious group, so you feel the need to eliminate them

LORD NOSE
02-18-2010, 12:15 PM
I think the cause of genocide is simply the fear of the unknown. you don't understand that other ethnic/religious group, so you feel the need to eliminate them

so why didn't us natives in so called america kill off the english when they came here ?

instead, we broke bread with them and ended up dead

WARPATH
02-18-2010, 12:46 PM
so why didn't us natives in so called america kill off the english when they came here ?

instead, we broke bread with them and ended up dead

OH OH I know this one Sunny:

It's because the natives thought the English were White Gods because they were amazed by their technological advances. Also it was in their prophecies that a White God would come from the seas to guide them.

http://localityswitch.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/sarcasm.jpg

LORD NOSE
02-18-2010, 01:13 PM
that shit needs to be explained

cause many many whites believe that they were fully clothed and decked out in jewels while we ran around jungles with the fig leaf or 2 for underwear

they believe that they had high science and advanced math while we were sacrificing each other to our gods

they had ships and boats and knew how to travel the world well using the stars

while we only rode horses to other tribes territories to rape their women

they don't realize that what they see of us, the pics, the flicks, are the results of the slaughter

WARPATH
02-18-2010, 03:14 PM
What people don't seem to understand is Native "america" was place of spiritual enlightenment. Natives had a lot of knowledge in science, math, and astrology. It was because of this knowledge that they continued to live the way they did. The tools of European brought only helped ease the burden of that lifestyle.

The natives knew that white people were coming because of their history with other world travelers. They didn't give them gifts and treat them like royalty because they thought they were Gods- it was because that is the way you treat a guest when they come to visit you.

Even warfare was handled differently. A lot of native cultures bestowed war honors on those that could touch their opponent and escape without being touched or to engage in hand to hand combat without killing the opponent.

It wasn't until they engaged Europeans in battle, when they realized:

"We have to stop counting coup on these people because they really want us dead and gone."

Even during warfare natives recognized killing someone on the battlefield as murder- or the ultimate atrocity you can commit against another man and his family.

It was this spiritual enlightenment and compassion for the enemies family, as well as the well being of one own family that lead to the down fall of "the first peoples."

theheavens
02-18-2010, 03:29 PM
so why didn't us natives in so called america kill off the english when they came here ?

instead, we broke bread with them and ended up dead

because natives are more open-minded than crackers?

LORD NOSE
02-18-2010, 03:29 PM
we were somewhat naive


and still are

diggy
02-18-2010, 04:21 PM
By blacks being natives, I was referring to the Olmec.

The Olmec made carvings of what they looked like in stone:



http://lh4.ggpht.com/__2om4eR-m-I/RfIafLQ5BOI/AAAAAAAAAIY/k7_A8SB_vPQ/mexico+city0064.JPG




The above statue has the facial characteristics of an African.

LORD NOSE
02-18-2010, 04:35 PM
or a mexican

diggy
02-18-2010, 04:46 PM
Mexicans do not have those characteristics unless they have African ancestry.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-18-2010, 05:20 PM
The more you dwell on superficial physical differences, the more you propagate the myth that people are inherently different.

This in turn creates fear and hatred.

Creating you own inaccurate versions of history is the same thing white people do.

LORD NOSE
02-18-2010, 05:30 PM
Mexicans do not have those characteristics unless they have African ancestry.


there are plenty of people here who call themselves mexican that look like that

diggy
02-18-2010, 05:50 PM
The more you dwell on superficial physical differences, the more you propagate the myth that people are inherently different.

It does not logically follow.

diggy
02-18-2010, 05:53 PM
there are plenty of people here who call themselves mexican that look like that

There are even MORE people who are African/African descendants who look like that and their genetics are dominant (meaning those traits came from us).

That makes us (Africans) their origin.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-18-2010, 11:07 PM
It does not logically follow.

Yes it does. Use your brain, Diggy. Note the word "superficial".

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-19-2010, 10:19 PM
EVERYONE IS FROM AFRICA ORIGINALLY... SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA AND AFRICA SHARE SOME GENE POOLS BECAUSE THEY'RE NEAR EACH OTHER. PEOPLE PROBABLY HAD BOATS IN THE ICE AGES BIG SURPRISE...

Some natives were black descent. Most were Russian. Who cares.

Ok Warpath I feel bad about arguing with you about what really happened when I don't know or care. I'll take all of the blame of the white man's sins for ten thousand years back across the whole world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psIuidkkLjI

Dave said I should.

Being Irish and Russian that makes me of Norse descent which means its my fault for the whole colonization thing. Sorry. My Bad.

LORD NOSE
02-20-2010, 01:21 AM
you must feel guilty cause no ones blaming you for shit

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Haha thats the joke. (I was trying to say that I feel like warpath is mad at me for defending my people's when he's defending his and all I've said is that they fought and no one still cares.)

LORD NOSE
02-21-2010, 09:34 AM
...... me for defending my people's ......




with lies

RALPH WIGGUM
02-21-2010, 10:42 AM
You're not defending white people.
The truth is, the white man massacred the red man. That doesn't make any white american living today guilty of it. What makes you guilty is denying your history.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-21-2010, 12:13 PM
Of course white people are devils, that is established.

And obviously, they gloss over their history with rose-colored glasses.

But look at this thread.

Black people and Native Americans are creating fake histories for themselves as well.

We heard that black people lived in American with Natives, and that natives tribes never massacred one another.

ALl of you focus on your superficial physical differences, instead of letting your ridiculous lies bring you together.

WARPATH
02-25-2010, 01:23 PM
EVERYONE IS FROM AFRICA ORIGINALLY... SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA AND AFRICA SHARE SOME GENE POOLS BECAUSE THEY'RE NEAR EACH OTHER. PEOPLE PROBABLY HAD BOATS IN THE ICE AGES BIG SURPRISE...

Some natives were black descent. Most were Russian. Who cares.

Ok Warpath I feel bad about arguing with you about what really happened when I don't know or care. I'll take all of the blame of the white man's sins for ten thousand years back across the whole world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psIuidkkLjI

Dave said I should.

Being Irish and Russian that makes me of Norse descent which means its my fault for the whole colonization thing. Sorry. My Bad.

Haha thats the joke. (I was trying to say that I feel like warpath is mad at me for defending my people's when he's defending his and all I've said is that they fought and no one still cares.)

Nobody's mad at you. I enjoy exposing your ignorance, but you do pretty well on your own.

LOL

Frank Sobotka
02-25-2010, 03:05 PM
Lol @ The my dad can beat up your dad discussion

Both sides were scientifically advanced, just in a different way.
I think the native americans were impressed by the big ass ships, just how the "invaders" must've been impressed with the knowledge of the nature