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View Full Version : Pilot says fuck the IRS, lights his house on fire and crashes plane into a building


beautifulrock
02-18-2010, 11:31 AM
That's the news so far, if you believe it.

AUSTIN, Texas – Fire department officials in Austin, Texas, say one person is unaccounted for following the crash of a small place into an building that houses offices of the Internal Revenue Service.
Assistant Austin Fire Chief Harry Evans says two people have also been taken to a hospital. Their conditions were not immediately known.
A law enforcement official says the crash does not initially appear to be the result of a crime or terrorism. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to publicly discuss the incident.
Thick black and gray smoke was billowing out of the second and third stories of the building Thursday as fire crews using ladder trucks and hoses battled the fire.
Dozens of windows were blown out of the hulking black building and vehicles traveling on a nearby highway paused to look.
____
Associated Press Writer Devlin Barrett in Washington contributed to this report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100218/ap_on_re_us/us_plane_crash_texas

PALEFORCE
02-18-2010, 11:45 AM
i wonder if this building is going to collapse into its own footprint like the world trade center

Uncle Steezo
02-18-2010, 12:17 PM
lol, notice how unexpected acts terrorism are not classified as terrorism.

beautifulrock
02-18-2010, 12:18 PM
Clearly it was domestic terrorism

Longbongcilvaringz
02-18-2010, 12:20 PM
"A law enforcement official says the crash does not initially appear to be the result of a crime or terrorism. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to publicly discuss the incident."

Who writes this shit?

Can they speak English?

PALEFORCE
02-18-2010, 12:52 PM
If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer… and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL – Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. – This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. – The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

* “another person” is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.
* “taxpayer” is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.
* “individual”, “employee”, or “worker” is you.

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

Uncle Steezo
02-18-2010, 12:53 PM
"A law enforcement official says the crash does not initially appear to be the result of a crime or terrorism. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to publicly discuss the incident."

Who writes this shit?

Can they speak English?

its purposely written that way to confuse.
on some orwellian doublespeak shit.

beautifulrock
02-18-2010, 01:15 PM
If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer… and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL – Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. – This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. – The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

* “another person” is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.
* “taxpayer” is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.
* “individual”, “employee”, or “worker” is you.

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.
How can you not feel this man's pain? I hope this wakes many more people up. It's hard to ignore a burning building.

beautifulrock
02-18-2010, 01:25 PM
Here's your spin of the day

"Violence is the only answer"

Out of everything written in the note, this will be the only thing getting play. All day, for days to come.

Uncle Steezo
02-18-2010, 01:26 PM
dude put it on the line.
i'm curious to see the spin.
i might just turn on the tv today.

EAGLE EYE
02-18-2010, 02:06 PM
wow they are making the Tiger Woods press statement the top story instead

beautifulrock
02-18-2010, 02:14 PM
^^^that's tomorrow

Sheep Shifter
02-18-2010, 02:40 PM
If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer… and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL – Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. – This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. – The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

* “another person” is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.
* “taxpayer” is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.
* “individual”, “employee”, or “worker” is you.

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.
Guy should have just become a revolutionary socialist.

beautifulrock
02-18-2010, 02:46 PM
^^^It's funny you should bring that up, because here is his sign off quote that Palehorse failed to post...


The Communist Creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The Capitalist Creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Uncle Steezo
02-18-2010, 02:53 PM
i been spamming the cnn website with this:

our forefathers committed similar destructive acts.
why?
taxation.
"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government"
sound familiar?
lets not forget that our nation was founded on acts of violent revolution... the founding fathers blew stuff up, killed gov officials and wrote raving mad letters.
why?
taxes.


just to confuse/piss off all the "he's a nutjob" & "love it or leave it" commentary.

BRONZBODY
02-18-2010, 03:24 PM
son....i saw the plane hit the building son. the irs building is right down the street from my fucking job son!!!(4 those that dont know, i live in austin) i happen to look up and i saw the plane...i was saying to myself...that plane is flying pretty low.....SHIT!!!!!

beautifulrock
02-18-2010, 05:29 PM
That's amazing Bronze, I hope you share your thoughts on the events in further detail.


I just wanted to clear my head and express my opinion given the events of this morning. First and foremost I cannot condone the actions of this clearly broken and desperate man. Putting his family at risk and putting innocent lives at risk is not an action I approve of as I believe in a non-violent resolution to every conflict.

However, although the tragic nature of this event left lives shattered, the cost of those lives was not in vain for the people as a whole, for in this abominable deed lies a silver lining, for those who still believe in Freedom and the principles our forefathers taught us.

This man left whatever soul he had left on six incredible pages after the government broke his will and his spirit. The anguish he exudes is only a minute fraction of the total anguish this country has felt at the hands of the government that's supposed to be protecting them. We should be so lucky that his message will be spread to those that feel his heartache and express his views. If there's a lesson that can be learned, it's that you are not alone in this fight against tyranny. We all have our pot to piss in, but for far too many of us, that pot is becoming a street corner, or a sewer.

If we allow tyranny to overwhelm us, to break us like it broke this man, than we are no better than those that wish to oppress us. Right now, we are sheep to the slaughter, slowly being poisoned, stripped, ground down, and washed into oblivion. Let's not ignore this act and be hypnotized by the mass media, who only wish to post the most negative excepts from his speech. Let us really listen to what this man was trying to say, and take with it a little perspective on what's happening in this country. For he is a booming echo, for those too petrified to speak.

On the morning of 9-11, in my ignorance I had a deep sense of patriotism mashed with heart wrenching terror and deep sadness, but today, my mood is strangely more of relief. I feel like a stone was cast in a lake and perhaps some ripple effect will harness the reigns of change. Real change, not the spare change we were promised and got, a little more than a year ago.

In closing I would like to say, take time to love the things you love right now, because tomorrow they may be gone. For no one is that truer, than Joseph Stack.

peace Wu-Tang Corp

beautifulrock

diggy
02-18-2010, 05:43 PM
Yup, the real enemy is not foreign, it's internal.

EAGLE EYE
02-18-2010, 06:01 PM
look at the banner ad that was inserted mid way through the letter which eventually got posted on the huffington post

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7247/screenshot20100218at659.png

TeknicelStylez
02-18-2010, 06:25 PM
Damn a good man died... CNN is going to have a field day making him look like a psychotic asshole.

BRONZBODY
02-18-2010, 09:45 PM
That's amazing Bronze, I hope you share your thoughts on the events in further detail.


I just wanted to clear my head and express my opinion given the events of this morning. First and foremost I cannot condone the actions of this clearly broken and desperate man. Putting his family at risk and putting innocent lives at risk is not an action I approve of as I believe in a non-violent resolution to every conflict.

However, although the tragic nature of this event left lives shattered, the cost of those lives was not in vain for the people as a whole, for in this abominable deed lies a silver lining, for those who still believe in Freedom and the principles our forefathers taught us.

This man left whatever soul he had left on six incredible pages after the government broke his will and his spirit. The anguish he exudes is only a minute fraction of the total anguish this country has felt at the hands of the government that's supposed to be protecting them. We should be so lucky that his message will be spread to those that feel his heartache and express his views. If there's a lesson that can be learned, it's that you are not alone in this fight against tyranny. We all have our pot to piss in, but for far too many of us, that pot is becoming a street corner, or a sewer.

If we allow tyranny to overwhelm us, to break us like it broke this man, than we are no better than those that wish to oppress us. Right now, we are sheep to the slaughter, slowly being poisoned, stripped, ground down, and washed into oblivion. Let's not ignore this act and be hypnotized by the mass media, who only wish to post the most negative excepts from his speech. Let us really listen to what this man was trying to say, and take with it a little perspective on what's happening in this country. For he is a booming echo, for those too petrified to speak.

On the morning of 9-11, in my ignorance I had a deep sense of patriotism mashed with heart wrenching terror and deep sadness, but today, my mood is strangely more of relief. I feel like a stone was cast in a lake and perhaps some ripple effect will harness the reigns of change. Real change, not the spare change we were promised and got, a little more than a year ago.

In closing I would like to say, take time to love the things you love right now, because tomorrow they may be gone. For no one is that truer, than Joseph Stack.

peace Wu-Tang Corp

beautifulrockMan B-Rock, at first i did not know how to feel. when it happened i thought it was another "terrorist attack" then as the rumors went on i was like man it was some idiot. but once i got the whole story and read the letter he left, i was even more conflicted. i can understand his pain and anger at the government, i really can. like you i have my beef with those crooked sons of bitches too, but at the same time, he tried to not only kill his family(wife and daughter) but countless people that only work for the irs. those people were just doing their jobs trying to get by like the rest of us.

like you i believe in freedom son and hopefully sooner than later people will finally realize that the government the fucking us. hard, i dont think the dude was crazy, he was at his wits end and in the process he made some dumb and very terrible decisions. america was built on violence and sadly the only way we will be able to take back whats ours, many people will die.

if anyone is having some issues in their life. talk to someone, a doctor your moms a pastor, i dont give a fuck if you think religion is stupid or not, there are some good people in the church that are willing to help if you need it.

some of you cats will see this guy as a hero, and again, i get the point dude was trying to make......but to take innocent lives or try to in his case is something im not down with.


im gonna have to let this whole situation marinate in my thought box a little longer. but this is what i am feeling right now.

Peace.

whitey
02-18-2010, 10:53 PM
this dude is a loser. i feel bad for him and all but fucking A, get your shit together.

that goes for you too palehorse. :mexico:

Longbongcilvaringz
02-18-2010, 10:54 PM
Co Sign Bronze.

Killing innocent people is never justifiable, no matter how noble your intentions.

This part of the letter was piercing:

"I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution."

diggy
02-18-2010, 10:55 PM
Bronze, you thought he was a terrorist then changed your mind, right?

Was it cuz you found out he was a white man who was not Muslim?

Longbongcilvaringz
02-18-2010, 10:56 PM
Whoa, sorry bro.

diggy
02-18-2010, 10:58 PM
Thanks, Sean, but I would like Bronze to answer.

Ghost In The 'Lac
02-18-2010, 11:05 PM
What a complete nutjob. That was the lamest suicide note. Maybe if he wasnt so obsessed with money he wouldnt of been such a faggot.

Someone needed to give this man a joint or some shrooms, opened his mind a bit.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-18-2010, 11:15 PM
What a pussy.

LOL @ a bunch of wu-tang losers who have trouble "fitting in" sucking his cock post-mortem.

LOL @ anybody who lets the government dictate their happiness.

Longbongcilvaringz
02-18-2010, 11:22 PM
Uh, yeah, i mean he was pretty fucking misguided.

He seems to have put all his energy into attempting to mislead the IRS and avoid paying taxes.

He got burnt as a result, and couldn't handle it.

The US tax system is kind of fucked, but it's not like the IRS is making shit up on the spot. You contravene the law, and you have to pay the tax which you should have originally. It's pretty simple.

whitey
02-18-2010, 11:29 PM
he was on some wesley snipes shit and he couldnt handle the results. what a rebel this guy was!! not only killing himself but 2 innocent people with him. this guy is an asshole. the systems not perfect, nothing is. this dude should have moved to north korea if he wanted to experience the joys of communism.

Visionz
02-19-2010, 01:33 AM
my wife was driving on the flyover from Mopac to 183 as the plane was coming in (anyone in Austin will know) saw the plane in the rearview getting closer and closer to the point where she was about 50 yards away when the plane flew by completely sideways and head-on into the building.

beautifulrock
02-19-2010, 06:56 AM
Look who thinks he's a pussy and a nut job, what a surprise.

BRONZBODY
02-19-2010, 07:45 AM
Bronze, you thought he was a terrorist then changed your mind, right?

Was it cuz you found out he was a white man who was not Muslim?no not at all son. him being white or muslim didnt have shit to do with me thinking it was terroist attack. my thought process was, "here we go again". for those who thing 9-11 was done by muslims are sadly mistaken.

but of course, whe you see a plane fly into something with your own eyes,you will think anything at first.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 07:47 AM
for those who thing 9-11 was done by muslims you are sadly mistaken

are you on some "true meaning of muslim" shit, or on some "convoluted nonsensical inside job wu-tang knowledge forum" shit ?

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 07:51 AM
are you on some "true meaning of muslim" shit, or on some "convoluted nonsensical inside job wu-tang knowledge forum" shit ?

i think he's talking about the truth.
i know i know you don't deal with that shit but we all have to change.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 07:56 AM
i think he's talking about the truth.
i know i know you don't deal with that shit but we all have to change.

Uh-uh, oh no you di'n't.

I've already learned my lesson as far as trying to open troubled minds on wu-tang forums, so I'm not going to get into it.

But even with the multiple retard/KTL proposals, there's still no alternative "Theory" that holds any weight whatsoever.

So say what you think happened, but don't front like it's the "Truth", or that there is any "proof" whatsoever.

I've probably already said too much

food for thought
02-19-2010, 07:56 AM
this shit has been crazy

looks like the tiger woods story is going to be dominating the air waves today and over the weekend

did they find his body yet? last i watched they said 2 bodies havent been recovered uet, and the pilot was one of them

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 08:16 AM
Uh-uh, oh no you di'n't.

I've already learned my lesson as far as trying to open troubled minds on wu-tang forums, so I'm not going to get into it.

But even with the multiple retard/KTL proposals, there's still no alternative "Theory" that holds any weight whatsoever.

So say what you think happened, but don't front like it's the "Truth", or that there is any "proof" whatsoever.

I've probably already said too much

we have a fundamental difference in our sciences of life.

you are comfortable holding on to a lie until a better lie or the truth comes your way which may or may not happen. you have echoed this philosohy on many fronts and if you are honest with yourself you will agree.

me am not comfortable with lies. i prefer to reject the lie to make way for truth.

the official 911 story is a lie.
the case for iraq war is a lie.
gov involvement in corporate fraud.
the draining of the us economy.
the bailout.


these issues are dots that can be connected.
more dots are needed to make a complete picture but the pattern of our gov lying and covering up and betraying the citizens is clear and in 2010 nobody should think that an inside job is so ridiculous.

quite the contrary, anyone who cannot see the pattern of fucking the citizen thoroughly over is the nutjob.

anyone who after getting robbed blind by two wars waged on a lie, then getting robbed again just to put money in the ultrarich's pocket, still wants to trust the powers that be... is not only crazy but a fucking idiot.


that "truthers are crazy" card can't be played anymore. it;s YOU who are crazy for not being in touch with reality.

what reality?

YOUR GOV LIES TO YOU
YOUR GOV STEALS FROM YOU
YOUR GOV DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTERESTS IN MIND
YOUR GOV WILL USE YOUR LIFE AS CURRENCY

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 08:23 AM
we have a fundamental difference in our sciences of life.

you are comfortable holding on to a lie until a better lie or the truth comes your way which may or may not happen. you have echoed this philosohy on many fronts and if you are honest with yourself you will agree.

me am not comfortable with lies. i prefer to reject the lie to make way for truth.

the official 911 story is a lie.
the case for iraq war is a lie.
gov involvement in corporate fraud.
the draining of the us economy.
the bailout.


these issues are dots that can be connected.
more dots are needed to make a complete picture but the pattern of our gov lying and covering up and betraying the citizens is clear and in 2010 nobody should think that an inside job is so ridiculous.

quite the contrary, anyone who cannot see the pattern of fucking the citizen thoroughly over is the nutjob.

anyone who after getting robbed blind by two wars waged on a lie, then getting robbed again just to put money in the ultrarich's pocket, still wants to trust the powers that be... is not only crazy but a fucking idiot.


that "truthers are crazy" card can't be played anymore. it;s YOU who are crazy for not being in touch with reality.

what reality?

YOUR GOV LIES TO YOU
YOUR GOV STEALS FROM YOU
YOUR GOV DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTERESTS IN MIND
YOUR GOV WILL USE YOUR LIFE AS CURRENCY

As I've stated many times, you have no idea what I believe.

You know that I don't agree with you on certain topics, so rather than learn what I believe, you fill in your own blanks with a tired, formulated backstory that doesn't even apply to MOST people.

You connect all the dots you want. It is easy. BUt the problem is that the connections are artificial. They don't make a big picture. Just a bunch of skewed lines.

DOn't pretend you care about, or know anything about, the truth.

Internet revolutionaries with no basis in reality disgust me.

Just like people who blindly trust the government disgust me.

Again, stupid people want to believe in one extreme or the other, and don't recognize the convoluted state of the world.

The hubris of people on this site is ridiculous.

People on this site don't listen to anything. Everyone thinks that I love the government when I have continuously stated that think it is inefficient, corrupt, and inherently flawed.

The dumb can only fit things into simple pigeonholes.

The irony is palpable

whitey
02-19-2010, 08:36 AM
Look who thinks he's a pussy and a nut job, what a surprise.

look who thinks this guy is a hero and a good man, what a surprise.

whos that bitch in your gif, thats a sweet ass.

we have a fundamental difference in our sciences of life.

you are comfortable holding on to a lie until a better lie or the truth comes your way which may or may not happen. you have echoed this philosohy on many fronts and if you are honest with yourself you will agree.

me am not comfortable with lies. i prefer to reject the lie to make way for truth.

the official 911 story is a lie.
the case for iraq war is a lie.
gov involvement in corporate fraud.
the draining of the us economy.
the bailout.


these issues are dots that can be connected.
more dots are needed to make a complete picture but the pattern of our gov lying and covering up and betraying the citizens is clear and in 2010 nobody should think that an inside job is so ridiculous.

quite the contrary, anyone who cannot see the pattern of fucking the citizen thoroughly over is the nutjob.

anyone who after getting robbed blind by two wars waged on a lie, then getting robbed again just to put money in the ultrarich's pocket, still wants to trust the powers that be... is not only crazy but a fucking idiot.


that "truthers are crazy" card can't be played anymore. it;s YOU who are crazy for not being in touch with reality.

what reality?

YOUR GOV LIES TO YOU
YOUR GOV STEALS FROM YOU
YOUR GOV DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTERESTS IN MIND
YOUR GOV WILL USE YOUR LIFE AS CURRENCY


theres no doubt there are some greedy people out there trying to fuck people over for a buck. but to think that is intertwined with american policy is so stupid. and you dont have proof, you just add stuff together where there are no plus signs. just because they lied on iraq doesnt mean everything is a lie, correlations dont work like that. and the biggest bs of it all is a lot of people making that cash of this country still need this country to survive and thrive. they need a healthy middle class. you dont think these people realize this? it is totally and completely NOT in their best interests to totally blast the US people in the ass to unsustainable proportions.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 08:37 AM
@whitey you are an idiot and i won't waste my time talking to you.


@ dan
how ironic.
once again you avoid the issue and attack the messenger.

instead of trying to put me into a revolutionary box to fit your warped sense of reality you could have easily said

"gavin i agree with points ABC... BUT i disagree with points XYZ. BECAUSE of 123"

this is how intelligent people discuss issues.

the reason i don't know your position is because you don't ever SAY anything. besides trying to call someone a ktl nutjob or whatever sounds cool on the internet these days.

you often pull this bullshit of attacking the person and avoiding the issue.


i just have laid a foundation to discuss these topics like the intelligent person you want me to think that you are. ball is in your court.

beautifulrock
02-19-2010, 08:38 AM
look who thinks this guy is a hero and a good man, what a surprise.

whos that bitch in your gif, thats a sweet ass.

Post where I said he was a hero or a good man. Don't put words in my mouth.

You should learn how to read.






It's your sister.

BRONZBODY
02-19-2010, 08:39 AM
we have a fundamental difference in our sciences of life.

you are comfortable holding on to a lie until a better lie or the truth comes your way which may or may not happen. you have echoed this philosohy on many fronts and if you are honest with yourself you will agree.

me am not comfortable with lies. i prefer to reject the lie to make way for truth.

the official 911 story is a lie.
the case for iraq war is a lie.
gov involvement in corporate fraud.
the draining of the us economy.
the bailout.


these issues are dots that can be connected.
more dots are needed to make a complete picture but the pattern of our gov lying and covering up and betraying the citizens is clear and in 2010 nobody should think that an inside job is so ridiculous.

quite the contrary, anyone who cannot see the pattern of fucking the citizen thoroughly over is the nutjob.

anyone who after getting robbed blind by two wars waged on a lie, then getting robbed again just to put money in the ultrarich's pocket, still wants to trust the powers that be... is not only crazy but a fucking idiot.


that "truthers are crazy" card can't be played anymore. it;s YOU who are crazy for not being in touch with reality.

what reality?

YOUR GOV LIES TO YOU
YOUR GOV STEALS FROM YOU
YOUR GOV DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTERESTS IN MIND
YOUR GOV WILL USE YOUR LIFE AS CURRENCYgood lookin son...its too early here in austin and i just got to work....im not up for giving my reason why 9-11 is bullshit, you did it 4 me son.....

danny fubu, believe what you want to believe son. i wont tell another grown man what he can and cant believe in.

peace.

whitey
02-19-2010, 08:47 AM
Post where I said he was a hero or a good man. Don't put words in my mouth.

You should learn how to read.






It's your sister.


post where i said you did limp dick.


ooo my sister... slamming diss brah!!!!!! viva la revolution!!!!!!!!!!

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 08:48 AM
peace bronze.

some people would still deny that their girl was cheating if:
they find numbers in her purse
men call the house for her
she disappears at night
finds a man in the house
she gets pregnant and the baby is asian


this is the kind of behavior our gov has displayed during the past 10 years.

and as sad as it is, it seems like it was just one big robbery.
no politics, no agenda, no sinister plot...just unchecked greed.

we had a stack of money in the bank.(surplus)
these fuckers came up with a scheme to rob this nation blind.

now we broke.
and a nigga is gonna be the scapegoat.

mission accoplished.

whitey
02-19-2010, 08:48 AM
@whitey you are an idiot and i won't waste my time talking to you.


@ dan
how ironic.
once again you avoid the issue and attack the messenger.

instead of trying to put me into a revolutionary box to fit your warped sense of reality you could have easily said

"gavin i agree with points ABC... BUT i disagree with points XYZ. BECAUSE of 123"

this is how intelligent people discuss issues.

the reason i don't know your position is because you don't ever SAY anything. besides trying to call someone a ktl nutjob or whatever sounds cool on the internet these days.

you often pull this bullshit of attacking the person and avoiding the issue.


i just have laid a foundation to discuss these topics like the intelligent person you want me to think that you are. ball is in your court.


still no proof. it aint no thing, the world is against you for sure. massive government plan. for sure.

food for thought
02-19-2010, 08:50 AM
post where i said you did limp dick.


ooo my sister... slamming diss brah!!!!!! viva la revolution!!!!!!!!!!

lmao

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 08:57 AM
@ whitey
like i said, debating with you is a waste of both of our time.
these topics are way beyond your level of comprehension and you lack cognitive skills and the vocabulary to interface with intelligent people.

let me put it in terms you can understand.

i like to talk about stuff with people who ain't stupid.
or if they is stupid then they gotta be funny, and you ain't funny.

xKG07305CBs

beautifulrock
02-19-2010, 09:32 AM
look who thinks this guy is a hero and a good man, what a surprise.

whos that bitch in your gif, thats a sweet ass.




theres no doubt there are some greedy people out there trying to fuck people over for a buck. but to think that is intertwined with american policy is so stupid. and you dont have proof, you just add stuff together where there are no plus signs. just because they lied on iraq doesnt mean everything is a lie, correlations dont work like that. and the biggest bs of it all is a lot of people making that cash of this country still need this country to survive and thrive. they need a healthy middle class. you dont think these people realize this? it is totally and completely NOT in their best interests to totally blast the US people in the ass to unsustainable proportions.

To think that they are not is so embarrassingly stupid, you should just kill yourself. Never heard of lobbyists? Corporate stooges? You think the government ISN'T working for corporations? Stop embarrassing yourself, you fucking idiot.


As I've stated many times, you have no idea what I believe.

You know that I don't agree with you on certain topics, so rather than learn what I believe, you fill in your own blanks with a tired, formulated backstory that doesn't even apply to MOST people.

You connect all the dots you want. It is easy. BUt the problem is that the connections are artificial. They don't make a big picture. Just a bunch of skewed lines.

DOn't pretend you care about, or know anything about, the truth.

Internet revolutionaries with no basis in reality disgust me.

Just like people who blindly trust the government disgust me.

Again, stupid people want to believe in one extreme or the other, and don't recognize the convoluted state of the world.

The hubris of people on this site is ridiculous.

People on this site don't listen to anything. Everyone thinks that I love the government when I have continuously stated that think it is inefficient, corrupt, and inherently flawed.

The dumb can only fit things into simple pigeonholes.

The irony is palpable
regardless of what you think or believe

Omnes una manet nox

whitey
02-19-2010, 09:48 AM
@ whitey
like i said, debating with you is a waste of both of our time.
these topics are way beyond your level of comprehension and you lack cognitive skills and the vocabulary to interface with intelligent people.

let me put it in terms you can understand.

i like to talk about stuff with people who ain't stupid.
or if they is stupid then they gotta be funny, and you ain't funny.

xKG07305CBs


haha boy please. im earning a higher level of education than you. i dont care to really craft arguments for a wu tang board unlike some of you herbs. i have a life...that does not revolve around this board.

whitey
02-19-2010, 09:49 AM
To think that they are not is so embarrassingly stupid, you should just kill yourself. Never heard of lobbyists? Corporate stooges? You think the government ISN'T working for corporations? Stop embarrassing yourself, you fucking idiot.



regardless of what you think or believe

Omnes una manet nox


keep dunce cappin and kazooin boy.

beautifulrock
02-19-2010, 09:55 AM
So far, you haven't contradicted anything I've said with any kind of argument. Your default response is to try and diss me, which tells me and anyone else that's reading that you're losing the argument badly and you know it.

angry!
02-19-2010, 10:03 AM
brocks writing open manifestos, get a fucking life b!!!!!!!!!

pathetic, you think you got the world figured out when you got no friends and no job!!!!!!!

you catch feelings on the net everyday of the week, you wouldnt get so emotional if you had a life outside wu corp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now think of a real witty response that no one will laugh at and carry on with your bullshit you lifeless body of misery, we know you can sit on the computer all day going back n forth with niggas, its all you got!!!!!!!!!!!! youre one of the saddest ppl on the net!!!!!!!!!

PALEFORCE
02-19-2010, 10:03 AM
whitey is one of the biggest fools on this forum. he wouldnt recognize the truth if it fucked him in the ass.

trust me your better off trying to make sense with tissa

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 10:04 AM
want proof? here's your fucking proof!
Duh PROOF (http://only969togo.ytmnd.com/)

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 10:11 AM
whitey is one of the biggest fools on this forum. he wouldnt recognize the truth if it fucked him in the ass.

trust me your better off trying to make sense with tissa
http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CLaS88aSwPCiNBDYBRhPMgi1k3UWmoH93A
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHH!!!
even a googlebot recognizes truth when it sees it.

IrOnMaN
02-19-2010, 10:13 AM
That's amazing Bronze, I hope you share your thoughts on the events in further detail.


I just wanted to clear my head and express my opinion given the events of this morning. First and foremost I cannot condone the actions of this clearly broken and desperate man. Putting his family at risk and putting innocent lives at risk is not an action I approve of as I believe in a non-violent resolution to every conflict.

However, although the tragic nature of this event left lives shattered, the cost of those lives was not in vain for the people as a whole, for in this abominable deed lies a silver lining, for those who still believe in Freedom and the principles our forefathers taught us.

This man left whatever soul he had left on six incredible pages after the government broke his will and his spirit. The anguish he exudes is only a minute fraction of the total anguish this country has felt at the hands of the government that's supposed to be protecting them. We should be so lucky that his message will be spread to those that feel his heartache and express his views. If there's a lesson that can be learned, it's that you are not alone in this fight against tyranny. We all have our pot to piss in, but for far too many of us, that pot is becoming a street corner, or a sewer.

If we allow tyranny to overwhelm us, to break us like it broke this man, than we are no better than those that wish to oppress us. Right now, we are sheep to the slaughter, slowly being poisoned, stripped, ground down, and washed into oblivion. Let's not ignore this act and be hypnotized by the mass media, who only wish to post the most negative excepts from his speech. Let us really listen to what this man was trying to say, and take with it a little perspective on what's happening in this country. For he is a booming echo, for those too petrified to speak.

On the morning of 9-11, in my ignorance I had a deep sense of patriotism mashed with heart wrenching terror and deep sadness, but today, my mood is strangely more of relief. I feel like a stone was cast in a lake and perhaps some ripple effect will harness the reigns of change. Real change, not the spare change we were promised and got, a little more than a year ago.

In closing I would like to say, take time to love the things you love right now, because tomorrow they may be gone. For no one is that truer, than Joseph Stack.

peace Wu-Tang Corp

beautifulrock

Extremely well thought out and very well written. +rep


Man B-Rock, at first i did not know how to feel. when it happened i thought it was another "terrorist attack" then as the rumors went on i was like man it was some idiot. but once i got the whole story and read the letter he left, i was even more conflicted. i can understand his pain and anger at the government, i really can. like you i have my beef with those crooked sons of bitches too, but at the same time, he tried to not only kill his family(wife and daughter) but countless people that only work for the irs. those people were just doing their jobs trying to get by like the rest of us.

like you i believe in freedom son and hopefully sooner than later people will finally realize that the government the fucking us. hard, i dont think the dude was crazy, he was at his wits end and in the process he made some dumb and very terrible decisions. america was built on violence and sadly the only way we will be able to take back whats ours, many people will die.

if anyone is having some issues in their life. talk to someone, a doctor your moms a pastor, i dont give a fuck if you think religion is stupid or not, there are some good people in the church that are willing to help if you need it.

some of you cats will see this guy as a hero, and again, i get the point dude was trying to make......but to take innocent lives or try to in his case is something im not down with.


im gonna have to let this whole situation marinate in my thought box a little longer. but this is what i am feeling right now.

Peace.

+rep

Co Sign Bronze.

Killing innocent people is never justifiable, no matter how noble your intentions.

This part of the letter was piercing:

"I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution."

DAMN! I never thought about it like that until I read that paragraph. It makes a lot of sense now.

Bronze, you thought he was a terrorist then changed your mind, right?

Was it cuz you found out he was a white man who was not Muslim?

Dude....just shut up, please because you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

beautifulrock
02-19-2010, 10:22 AM
brocks writing open manifestos, get a fucking life b!!!!!!!!!

pathetic, you think you got the world figured out when you got no friends and no job!!!!!!!

you catch feelings on the net everyday of the week, you wouldnt get so emotional if you had a life outside wu corp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now think of a real witty response that no one will laugh at and carry on with your bullshit you lifeless body of misery, we know you can sit on the computer all day going back n forth with niggas, its all you got!!!!!!!!!!!! youre one of the saddest ppl on the net!!!!!!!!!
You're pathetic. My dick is your only salvation, it's not a diving board. Try using this thread to voice your opinion on something other than me. I can predict your next response will be to write out a list of stuff that's wrong with me. I don't need to make a list.

Maybe I do need to get a life, but what does it say about you, that your life is dedicated to me. Think about it.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 10:28 AM
we are witnessing the death throws of a crumbliming paradigm.
the old tactics of ridicule the truth hold no power in the face of stark reality.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 11:02 AM
Wild speculation and logical fallacies are not "stark reality"

I can tell by the state of the world that you guys are really "making a difference".

The "old ways" sure are changing!

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 11:07 AM
There are serious institutional problems and corruption in our government, and by not understanding them, but sensationalizing them and making new false accusations based on specious reasoning, you do nothing but divert attention from real and tangible problems.

You do worthy causes more harm than good by making mockeries of them

beautifulrock
02-19-2010, 11:10 AM
I agree, so stop minimalizing an obvious problem.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 11:14 AM
Wild speculation and logical fallacies are not "stark reality"

I can tell by the state of the world that you guys are really "making a difference".

The "old ways" sure are changing!


wild speculation, IMO no speculation is wild, but whatever, is always the precursor to discovery.

we have to re-learn to question everything.


dare to dream my son.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 11:18 AM
The thing is, if you could prove that the government completely staged 9/11, I would be surprised, but I wouldn't even be shocked.

But being logical, skeptical, non-biased, and grounded in reality, I just can't draw that conclusion. THe theories are unproven, have too many holes, and go against common sense and understanding of "the way things work"

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 11:24 AM
@dan

you keep qualifying your statements with the same ol "crazy/ridiculous" adjectives.

specifically, what is so crazy?
why is it ridiculous?
what are your boundaries of reason?


what bothers me is the "its bad, but i'm helpless in the matter." "keep your head down and mind your own business. the gov will work it out." attitude.

we did that as a nation for 10 years and it has only gotten worse.

i'm making a difference by fighting a battle of hearts and minds every opportunity i get.

once the collective attitude shifts back to "we the people", then there will be no need to fight the fight you are accusing me of shirking from.

its smarter safer and easier for me to educate everyone i know/meet about alternative possibilites, than for me to be a "domestic terrorist" or some kind of "new age revolutionary.

i'm trying to push a revolution of the mind.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 11:33 AM
I don't think that people are powerless at all, nor do I think people should bend over and take it from a corrupt government.

ALL I am saying, in this instance, is that I don't believe that the government planned and executed the events of 9/11.

I think that it is a crazy idea that people believe that a bumbling, inefficient government, where a senator can't even get a blow job and keep it secret, carried out this massive conspiracy that would require multiple levels of cooperation, secrecy, and media involvement.

And if they were so efficient to be able to carry out a false flag operation on this level, then I don't think it would be such a wacky far-fetched and convoluted plot.

And for whatever people think about government secrecy, we live in the most transparent time and place in the history of the world.

I KNOW our government is capable of some foul shit. TUskeegee comes to mind immediately.

But this argument just isn't logical to me.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 11:37 AM
The thing is, if you could prove that the government completely staged 9/11, I would be surprised, but I wouldn't even be shocked.

But being logical, skeptical, non-biased, and grounded in reality, I just can't draw that conclusion. THe theories are unproven, have too many holes, and go against common sense and understanding of "the way things work"


but thats the whole issue. most people, you and myself included, don't have a solid understanding of the way things work.

there are many possibilites of what really happened on 9/11.
but if we are dealing with "common sense" then you'd have to flush the official story down the toilet.

the evidence is right in front of you.

the best evidence i can provide is the hole in the pentagon.
it physically does not make sense. a plane has wings. the wings were not on the outside. the wings did not leave a single mark on the outside. the hole wasn't even the size of the plane that supposedly hit the pentagon.

the powers that be want you to ignore your own eyes and mind and believe what they tell you.
these are the same people that repeatedly lie to your face and stab you in the back.

why would they lie?

if someone stole your wallet, and it was known that i was there to see who stole it, but i lie to you about the circumstances around the theft, does that implicate me in some way to the theft?

it doesn't mean i stole it, but it involves me in a conspiracy.

20yrs from now people will view 9/11 like JFK. "yeah the official story is BS. the gov prolly did it" and we will go on with life.
but it doesn't have to be that way.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 11:44 AM
I don't think that people are powerless at all, nor do I think people should bend over and take it from a corrupt government.

ALL I am saying, in this instance, is that I don't believe that the government planned and executed the events of 9/11.

I think that it is a crazy idea that people believe that a bumbling, inefficient government, where a senator can't even get a blow job and keep it secret, carried out this massive conspiracy that would require multiple levels of cooperation, secrecy, and media involvement.

And if they were so efficient to be able to carry out a false flag operation on this level, then I don't think it would be such a wacky far-fetched and convoluted plot.

And for whatever people think about government secrecy, we live in the most transparent time and place in the history of the world.

I KNOW our government is capable of some foul shit. TUskeegee comes to mind immediately.

But this argument just isn't logical to me.

thats where it gets murky.

2 assumptions are made.
1. everyone in the gov is part of the conspiracy
2. the visible gov is the highest power.

here's my theory.
a small faction of the mil/ind complex carried out 9/11 using radio controlled jetliners on wtc and shot a missile into the pentagon.
weeks leading up to 9/11 bombs were planted at the base of wtc.

a military coup so to speak.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
02-19-2010, 12:00 PM
But do you realize that massive level of conspiracy, secrecy, and planning that would take?

What about the men who claimed responsibility for the attacks and the stories that THEY provided to us?

I think I already know your response, but whatever.

ALSO, I don't think that government necessarily killed Kennedy.

THere still isn't any proof or a plausible story.

Everytime the government can't provide a bulltetproof explanation for something, does it mean they did it?

If a detective can't solve a crime, does that mean he did it?

beautifulrock
02-19-2010, 12:04 PM
Nobody claimed responsibility for the attacks. Those videos were purposely mis translated. While they praised the attacks, neither the Taliban nor Osama's group took credit for the actual attacks.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 12:21 PM
But do you realize that massive level of conspiracy, secrecy, and planning that would take?

What about the men who claimed responsibility for the attacks and the stories that THEY provided to us?

I think I already know your response, but whatever.

ALSO, I don't think that government necessarily killed Kennedy.

THere still isn't any proof or a plausible story.

Everytime the government can't provide a bulltetproof explanation for something, does it mean they did it?

If a detective can't solve a crime, does that mean he did it?


1. a detective wont be put on his own wife's murder case.
2. terrorist groups often take credit to bolster their support. sometimes multiple groups take credit for the same act.
3. think how secret the accused must have been to pull it off even with the cia fbi and the dept of defense on their back.

many secrets are kept secret thru compartmentalization. the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
the people who set the bombs might not have even known they were live bombs.
the people who made the bombs might not know where they were being set.
the people who detonated them might not know what they were detonating.

after the towers came down you may or may not realize your part in all of this.
what do you do?
blow the whistle and risk you and your families lives?
run away?
keep the secret and suffer with the guilt?
some people prolly feel they will be held accountable as accessories.

i think exploring the possibilities is a healthy exercise.
we all know there are 2 or more sides to every story. why doesn't that apply to the biggest crime in american history?

Robert
02-19-2010, 12:24 PM
but thats the whole issue. most people, you and myself included, don't have a solid understanding of the way things work.

Isn't that often the problem with a multitude of conspiracy theories, that the theories are based on unfounded conjecture and a lack of understanding of "the way things work"?

Rob.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 12:37 PM
Isn't that often the problem with a multitude of conspiracy theories, that the theories are based on unfounded conjecture and a lack of understanding of "the way things work"?
Rob.
yes.

and that problem stems from the the inability or flat out resistance to investigate all possibilities.

you as a scientist can probably relate to the frustration of someone telling you something is impossible when they themselves have not explored the possibility and refuse to do so.

this breakdown in communication leaves the door wide open to all kinds of craziness.
its hard to separate the english from the dutch when anything that is not stamped with the official US seal is regarded as nuttery.

especially when critical parts of the official story are just as improbable as the CTheories.

at that point i have to look at the messenger and his track record for telling the truth.

why would i accept a liars story as the truth? especially when the liar tries to prevent anyone from investigating his story further. look at how a truther is treated. and for what? wanting to know the truth?

this same tactic has been employed for over 1000 years by the same people.

ask columbus
ask gallieo
ask socrates
ask darwin
ask stephen hawking
ask alex jones (lol)

Robert
02-19-2010, 01:04 PM
yes.

and that problem stems from the the inability or flat out resistance to investigate all possibilities.

Sure. However, searching for information to support a preconceived notion of a situation's outcome is just as bad.

you as a scientist can probably relate to the frustration of someone telling you something is impossible when they themselves have not explored the possibility and refuse to do so.

Of course. The climate change debate is a perfect example.

this breakdown in communication leaves the door wide open to all kinds of craziness.
its hard to separate the english from the dutch when anything that is not stamped with the official US seal is regarded as nuttery.

especially when critical parts of the official story are just as improbable as the CTheories.

at that point i have to look at the messenger and his track record for telling the truth.

why would i accept a liars story as the truth? especially when the liar tries to prevent anyone from investigating his story further. look at how a truther is treated. and for what? wanting to know the truth?

this same tactic has been employed for over 1000 years by the same people.

ask columbus
ask gallieo
ask socrates
ask darwin
ask stephen hawking
ask alex jones (lol)

I understand your lack of trust of the US government and your comment in general.

It appears (please correct me if I'm wrong) your opinion of this topic has more to do with the credibility of the US government and the loopholes in the official story than the "evidence" presented by conspiracy theorists.

In summary, it appears we generally agree on what transpired here, but our default positions are different.

Uncle Steezo
02-19-2010, 01:08 PM
in a word... yes.

diggy
02-20-2010, 09:39 PM
Nice discussion.