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SID
03-17-2010, 03:52 PM
I'm am and avid advocate of transhumanist principles, and i think science should be used to help improve the human condition, some people say this clashes with spirituality and they use the "playing god" argument in their defense, but i don't believe that.

I believe transhumanism is a manifestation of the power and evolution of human beings, and the power of human beings is linked to consciousness and consciousness is linked to the universe which is the source of the divine.

Therefore i don't believe we can ever truly sever spirituality, i don't believe an all powerful godly being interferes with the earth and it's occurrences, i believe consciousness was created to do the work and it was shared amongst all his creations.

I think transhumanism is a inevitable route humanity will take, it's just people are frightened to do so at the moment, in fear of upsetting the natural order and the religious freaks but it will eventually happen, no matter how long we delay it for.

Cloning I'm not to keen on and i don't think we need it, but cybernetic augmentation, and nanomachines i believe in to the utmost.

You might say hey if your getting some cybernetic embellishments it's obviously going to interfere with your neuroscience, it's going to synthesize thoughts and make them unnatural, i disagree, i believe our consciousness, our soul is immortal and cannot be destroyed unless we let it.

Great source of transhumanist news
http://www.hplusmagazine.com/

Thoughts?

SID
03-17-2010, 04:04 PM
Cyberdyne Corporation of Japan, in conjunction with Daiwa House, has begun mass production of a cybernetic bodysuit that augments body movement and increases user strength by up to tenfold.

The HAL (Hybrid Assistive Limb) suit works by detecting faint bioelectrical signals using pads placed on specific areas of the body. The pads move the HAL suit accordingly. The Cyberdyne website explains: “When a person attempts to move, nerve signals are sent from the brain to the muscles via motoneuron, moving the musculoskeletal system as a consequence. At this moment, very weak biosignals can be detected on the surface of the skin. HAL catches these signals through a sensor attached on the skin of the wearer. Based on the signals obtained, the power unit is controlled to wearer’s daily activities.”

Among the potential applications, Cyberdyne is emphasizing helping people with movement disabilities, augmenting strength for difficult industrial tasks, disaster rescue, and entertainment.


The HAL suit is not currently available. But according to Nikkei News, Daiwa and Cyberdyne are planning an annual production of 400 units and they should be marketed at approximately $4,200 US dollars.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2hmkiaa.jpg

ynL8BCXih8U

SID
03-17-2010, 04:06 PM
^Barely scratching the surface, literally.

Frank Sobotka
03-17-2010, 04:19 PM
Actually modern science is holding us back from evolving.
People with flaws are able to live now and are allowed to reproduce therefor the flaws will continue to exist and we arent'evolving any further.

SID
03-17-2010, 05:30 PM
Put it like this there is a padlock locking the true potential of science and what we can do with it, they have locked the padlock at the behest of the god fearing and under international ethic laws.

Once these barriers get broken down, (which will gradually happen as we loom into the future and morals and ideologies dissolve), they will unlock the padlock.

Face of the Golden Falcon
03-17-2010, 06:20 PM
We will destroy ourselves with our own "science" because the science of self remains un-researched.

HETEPU

SID
03-17-2010, 06:22 PM
Those who choose to neglect their journey will never reach the destination.

Having said that, it's always nice to have a car to get you there quicker....

TheBoarzHeadBoy
03-17-2010, 11:05 PM
Yeah, ok, do exactly the opposite of what every philosopher or thinker of any standing said.

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Thus Knowledge Corrupts. The pursuit of Knowledge will only lead to suffering.

There are limitations on what can and should be done. Humans are capable of anything, but we aren't supposed to do it. Show some respect to the future generations and don't do anything that could potentially... idk, destroy the species.

We're fine as we are. I don't need a robot body or a universal consciousness. I'm happy enough working hard, enjoying food, drink, and the company of others. You can read all the books you want people, but there are dangers in going into tomorrow too quickly. We created all this tech to make communications easier, but now its easier to talk to someone on a different continent then it is the girl down the road.

We'll figure it out, but we have to move slowly.

whitey
03-18-2010, 12:20 AM
http://i42.tinypic.com/2hmkiaa.jpg

ynL8BCXih8U


fucking A man, you aint picking up no god damn pussy wearing that faggot ass suit around i dont care how much strength it gives you.

you get pussy by looking like Arnold, not by having his strength coming from some nerdy body suit.

SID
03-18-2010, 06:42 AM
Yeah, ok, do exactly the opposite of what every philosopher or thinker of any standing said.

There are thousands of philosophers and your telling me that none of them were transhumanists? Aldous Huxley? Ronald Bailey? Robert Ettinger? John Desmond Bernal?

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Thus Knowledge Corrupts. The pursuit of Knowledge will only lead to suffering.

This statement is obsurd in every concievable way, knowledge does not equate to power, only in those who allow it to, knowledge is the only think that keeps mankind sane

There are limitations on what can and should be done. Humans are capable of anything, but we aren't supposed to do it. Show some respect to the future generations and don't do anything that could potentially... idk, destroy the species.

All i am saying is that transhumanism can be used to better the human condition, to eradicate dieases, to prolong death, to make our time on earth more productive and enjoyable which will lead to amore healthy fully formed consiousness

We're fine as we are.
Cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy would disagree with you on that one
I don't need a robot body or a universal consciousness. I'm happy enough working hard, enjoying food, drink, and the company of others.
Thats great but your young, and that is the mindset you are in at the moment as you age things change.
You can read all the books you want people, but there are dangers in going into tomorrow too quickly. We created all this tech to make communications easier, but now its easier to talk to someone on a different continent then it is the girl down the road.
I agree we shouldent jump into tommorow too quickly, however i think it should be a gradual process
We'll figure it out, but we have to move slowly.The early bird cathces the worm
1
fucking A man, you aint picking up no god damn pussy wearing that faggot ass suit around i dont care how much strength it gives you.

you get pussy by looking like Arnold, not by having his strength coming from some nerdy body suit.

Since when did this become a debate on how to get puss?

That suit would help warehouse workers carry out their tasks without breaking their backs.

Rollo
03-18-2010, 06:21 PM
I've always wanted to rid myself of my mortality and my humanity, since I find the human condition nauseatingly sentimental.

However transhumanism is retarded in it's understanding of evolution.
True selection isn't the fittest absolutely possible, it's merely those fit enough to continue reproducing.

Certainly humanity is fit enough as it is.

Artificial memory synapses exist in robotics, we also have functional MRI's which can see what a person is thinking.
Wouldn't it be interesting if I could somehow archive a persons thoughts and memories and put them onto a synthetic frame? I would live on without physical decline unlike my human body, with all of my experiences and knowledge. With the help of these synapses, robots can learn, this means I likewise can continue to learn.

I would be free of emotions, free of all things that plague me...
I would also be immortal.

Mumm Ra
03-18-2010, 06:34 PM
All i am saying is that transhumanism can be used to better the human condition, to eradicate dieases, to prolong death, to make our time on earth more productive and enjoyable which will lead to amore healthy fully formed consiousness
knowledge of self can do all of this - and without the side effects
and I fail to see how transhumanism can improve consciousness
if anything I would think the opposite - it would retard it

SID
03-18-2010, 07:01 PM
It would make give you a chance to live a more productive comfortable life, which in turn allow you to focus on spirituality more....

Mumm Ra
03-18-2010, 07:17 PM
what's stopping you from doing that now?
problems (challenges) in life are unavoidable - its not wise to rid yourself of them
not only unavoidable - they are necessary and required in the line of spirituality

they are here for us to learn from and grow - spirituality isn't necessarily just sitting comfortably in your bedroom and meditating and thinking lofty thoughts

when i say transhumanism would retard growth - take that suit you posted for example
what happens when that's taken away?
keeping yourself dependent on something outside of yourself doesn't force you to learn or grow and can be dangerous
its like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how to catch it himself

Face of the Golden Falcon
03-18-2010, 07:25 PM
^
repped.

Spirituality isn't spirituality at all with out real life challenges.

HETEPU

Mumm Ra
03-18-2010, 07:29 PM
yall watched the movie Surrogates?
you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

Rollo
03-18-2010, 07:48 PM
You would still face challenges. Just an entirely different set.
Synthetic frames have problems. Repairs, tin whiskers(microscopic splitting of wiring that kills computers and electronics), interference from various phenomenon....


There is no such thing as perfect....
Both sides should realize that. I'm reminded of this speech....


vjKOKgHIZyc

Mumm Ra
03-18-2010, 07:53 PM
^ exactly
you'd have even less time to focus on your self

transhumanism -
so you can effectively smoke your cigarettes and drink your soda while machines repair you so that you may find time for 'spiritual' matters
lol

SID
03-19-2010, 04:56 AM
Your getting it twisted.

Death stops people in theair search for enlightenment, they may never finish their journey on earth even though they were so close, i'm a proponent of a disease free world and nanomachines to help us heal and fight infection easier so we can make the most out of our short period.

Cybernetics will be used in the military eventually.

Mumm Ra
03-19-2010, 05:48 AM
if physical death is the end.... what's the point?
How long do you need to completely fulfill that journey in a single lifetime?
150 years?
500 years?
forever....?
IMO - if somebody is genuinely on that path - they will be provided with what they need

SID
03-19-2010, 05:55 AM
I could not say how long it takes i'm not an all aware shaman sadly, it all depends on the person.

I don't believe physical death is the end, i believe that consciousness must be trained and set free during your lifetime to transend to the cosmos, what i am saying is that transhumanism could give people a few extra years and significantly less stress, in order to cultivate their concsiousness.

Mumm Ra
03-19-2010, 07:14 AM
aight
ill just have to disagree on this topic i suppose
as well as the means to consciousness cultivation -
stress is a product of imbalanced emotion, there is nothing outside of one's self (or outside of knowledge of self) that is going to rid you of that
even millionaires kill themselves
peace tho

SID
03-19-2010, 07:33 AM
Transhumanism is not for everyone, i'm a futurist like Leary, i believe technology and science is the physical manifestation of human potential the other lies inner, black and white up and down, physcial/spiritual, we just have to balance both.


I'm currently reading an amazing interview All About Space Travel, Time Travel, Quantum Tunneling & Zero-G Sex.

http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/air-space/all-about-space-travel-time-travel-quantum-tunneling-zero-g-sex

Mumm Ra
03-19-2010, 07:51 AM
i see technology as a product of an imbalance - predominately left brained thinking

the left brain is the separator and the right brain is the unifier generally speaking - the left brain will see trees and not the forest, separate wholes into parts, and deal with trying to look outside of one's self for guidance.
you can tell the west is predominately left brained - they have always been the most technological and least spiritual group of people at the same time.

as far as science - science can be anything, it just means 'to know'

but again, those are just my views :dududu:

SID
03-19-2010, 07:56 AM
Yeah the west are imbalanced they value tech over spirituality and the same with the east they value spirituality over tech, i think there two sides of the same coin and as i said before we just have to find a right balance between the two.

Rollo
03-19-2010, 08:45 AM
The same nano technology we are harnessing leaves us open for new sorts of warfare.
On the other hand, you cannot stop progress.
However, to become completely dependent on high technology is a mistake, because the organic human is the one who has to repair it.

Electronics fail and in some instances on a massive scale.

It would be a grave mistake to entrust everything to something so incredibly faulty.
(see Toyota)


We've had 200 years of real formal science. We have a LONG LONG LONG ass ways to go yet. The very technology we work one will likely be our demise, so I think it will likely always be that way.

SID
03-19-2010, 08:48 AM
I don't think we will ever become completely dependent on high technology, letting it get to that stage defeats the whole object of transhumanism in the first place, it's there to help us, to fulfil our destiny.

From the invention of the wheel to the invention of flying cars and cryogenics, they are all steps up the stairwell of knowledge, things to help us deal with an existence that has no universal meaning or purpose.

Rollo
03-19-2010, 09:08 AM
I don't think we will ever become completely dependent on high technology

Cut off the power across the whole of the United States for 2 hours and see what technological dependency does to people...
We've only had it for a short while and yet, it seems to be making us incredibly useless.




letting it get to that stage defeats the whole object of transhumanism in the first place, it's there to help us, to fulfil our destiny.

From the invention of the wheel to the invention of flying cars and cryogenics, they are all steps up the stairwell of knowledge, things to help us deal with an existence that has no universal meaning or purpose.



That seems contradictary.
You believe in destiny but not purpose? What is destiny if not purpose?
Do you mean to say there was no purpose in mind when this existence was formed ? If so, what exactly are you basing that on, other than your own bias? Just curious?

SID
03-19-2010, 09:22 AM
cut off the power across the whole of the united states for 2 hours and see what technological dependency does to people...
We've only had it for a short while and yet, it seems to be making us incredibly useless.


i'm not talking about modern technology, i'm talking about future concepts and ideas that can be used to help the human condition


that seems contradictary.
You believe in destiny but not purpose? What is destiny if not purpose?
Do you mean to say there was no purpose in mind when this existence was formed ? If so, what exactly are you basing that on, other than your own bias? Just curious?

i believe it is inevatable that we will get to the stage where we utlize tech to aid our organic capacities, call it destiny call it what you will.

why are we here? What is our purpose, there are a million philosophical possibilites and religious views that attempt to answer these questions, but nothing fundamantaly concrete and universaly applicable to all people, we are still on a voyage of discovery and knowledge, we use science to help us find these answers

it is what drives us to push things forward to break barriers, the lingering hope for answers, if we knew why we exist and what for we would be content, there would be no need to prolong life or better the human condition


1

Rollo
03-19-2010, 09:44 AM
i'm not talking about modern technology, i'm talking about future concepts and ideas that can be used to help the human condition


I understand that. I'm just saying, as we go along and adjust to what we are doing with technology, we will always become one step farther away from those early men who lived on the land with lesser technology. We will in effect be weaker in some regards.

No reason to believe future technology will discontinue that trend.





why are we here? What is our purpose, there are a million philosophical possibilites and religious views that attempt to answer these questions, but nothing fundamantaly concrete and universaly applicable to all people


I think there are answers applicable to all people. If an explanation includes all life to start with such as a creation deity, certainly it applies to us all. The question should be whether it's correct.
Sadly, I feel people just don't want to accept anything that contradicts their world view.
Such people have no objectivity.




, we are still on a voyage of discovery and knowledge, we use science to help us find these answers

Science is one tool, however, I don't believe time travel to be possible.
I don't think we'll ever factually know the answer to that particular question.

if we knew why we exist and what for we would be content, there would be no need to prolong life or better the human condition

Knowing what you came from may not better your life at all.
You have to allow for the negatives and the positive imo.

Mumm Ra
03-19-2010, 04:25 PM
if we knew why we exist and what for we would be content, there would be no need to prolong life or better the human condition
then why even have a quest for spirituality if when you get to the final answer...you lose? lol.
what if the meaning of life was to become a vessel of god on earth and become one with what you call the cosmic consciousness? surely that would get some people's asses moving.
like i said - there's nothing this technology will do for you that knowledge of self can't
on the contrary - technology will always fall short of it
you want 10 extra years of life? 20? stop smoking cigarettes, eat right and exercise.

when i asked how long do you need to live to fulfill that journey it was rhetorical - im sure the average person could go 500 years and still not feel they've done all they could.

i still can't see this quest for higher technology as anything other than a hindrance to self improvement though. It doesn't take long to see where it's taken us spiritually already - and yet we want to go infinitely further with it.
all this worrying about the physical self is taking away from your spiritual self

i see technology and religion as two sides to the same coin - you're relying on something outside of yourself

SID
03-19-2010, 04:48 PM
There are things that hold people back, sad inevitable truths that lay dormant in the pysche, obstructing people on their journey, yes there is possibly an afterlife, yes consciousness is a force that takes people into a world of beautiful wonder and endless possibilites, but we need time to cultivate the garden of consciousness.

A tree is not grown in a instant, it takes hundreds of years to reach it's potential i feel the same about consciousness, the thought of amazing life changing tech paired with an existing spirtual quest sends shivers down my spine.

It's the full course with the delicious appetizer, in my point of view.

A Dean Of Virus
03-20-2010, 09:01 PM
SHALLAH I've read your posts for a few days and see you're more of a pop transhumanist...I mean, the thought of lady gaga being a mantelpiece for transhumanist ideology disgusts me.

There are many different kinds of transhumanists though...for all the haters, just remember that not all of us want to submit our minds to a "collective conscious" or anything of the sort....

Uncle Steezo
03-20-2010, 09:13 PM
anakin skywalker lost a huge chunk of force power due to his transhuman modifications.
missing parts=less midichlorians=weaker
http://www.ac-nancy-metz.fr/enseign/anglais/Henry/vader.jpg

TheBoarzHeadBoy
03-20-2010, 09:15 PM
^
Incredible commentary. (I'm serious)

Mumm Ra
03-21-2010, 02:54 AM
missing parts=less midichlorians=weaker

lol i thought that was some weird cellular terminology i never heard before until i googled it, can't believe you knew that shit

anyways

we're all entitled to our opinions
but ive yet to see or hear an explanation about what something like this:

A tree is not grown in a instant, it takes hundreds of years to reach it's potential i feel the same about consciousness
has to do, or is a logical step to this:

the thought of amazing life changing tech paired with an existing spirtual quest sends shivers down my spine.
It's the full course with the delicious appetizer, in my point of view.
a tree does just fine on it's own, matter of fact, ALL living things reach their full potential all by themselves...why would only humans need to develop something OUTSIDE of the self, to improve the self?
it's like A is creating B to get to C, when A can go directly to C.

i could see if you want this tech just for desire's sake, but not for any sort of spiritual sake
i guess it also depends on how you define spirituality, and judging by some of the responses i think we have totally different views

is your whole argument for transhumanism that it will make us live a little longer?
I've explained how we can already do that without the technology (and in a healthier way) -
unless you have more ways you think this tech can help spiritually...

but we need time to cultivate the garden of consciousness
if the goal of conscious cultivation is to become one with the cosmic consciousness (lets say 'one with all')
and you are depending on something other than your SELF to get there
you can't really ever be ONE with all, can you?
looking to something outside yourself is the very antithesis to spirituality - IMO
i would think the first thing one would want to do is weed out personal desire and ego if one wants to become one with all

A Dean Of Virus
03-21-2010, 07:33 PM
See, I just call it for what it is. I want to achieve more. That's it. I wanna do more than my ancestors did (or even my parents will do), and I need time. For those who actually would make use of the time, the ideology is a safe haven. But in order to gain "mainstream rep" it's letting all these clowns in who want "spiritual this and that" bullshit that I don't buy into.

Mumm Ra
03-21-2010, 07:45 PM
guess it all depends on one's definition of achievement

A Dean Of Virus
03-22-2010, 01:16 AM
Solving problems in the fields of life and physical sciences.

Mumm Ra
03-22-2010, 01:18 AM
no need for mental sciences?

SID
03-22-2010, 08:49 AM
anakin skywalker lost a huge chunk of force power due to his transhuman modifications.
missing parts=less midichlorians=weaker
http://www.ac-nancy-metz.fr/enseign/anglais/Henry/vader.jpg

Fair enough, but star wars is a fictional fantasy movie.

SID
03-22-2010, 08:53 AM
SHALLAH I've read your posts for a few days and see you're more of a pop transhumanist...I mean, the thought of lady gaga being a mantelpiece for transhumanist ideology disgusts me.

There are many different kinds of transhumanists though...for all the haters, just remember that not all of us want to submit our minds to a "collective conscious" or anything of the sort....

Gaga is not a "mantelpiece" for any transhumanist ideology, that was an article written by some dude, it has some serious insights, i'm not condoneing it or saying its the truth, i took facts out of it that i deemed relatable to modern soceity.

"collective consiousness" is a part of my personal belief system, it has nothing to do with transhumanism, it's just what i believe in, i'm nit telling you to sumbit your minds, just to set them free.

Uncle Steezo
03-22-2010, 03:07 PM
it can be argued that because the DNA molecule aids in communication within AND outside of the body, replacing organic with inorganic ultimately diminishes ones ability to participate in divine dialog.

http://data360.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/yoda.jpg?w=450

SID
03-23-2010, 06:26 AM
The antenna we use to contact the divine is consciousness, if that antenna is damaged yeah our communication will be effected, but if it's left alone we should be ok, if not better.

Uncle Steezo
03-23-2010, 12:49 PM
The antenna we use to contact the divine is consciousness, if that antenna is damaged yeah our communication will be effected, but if it's left alone we should be ok, if not better.


so the antennae to connect to consciousness IS consciousness?
elaborate.

SID
03-23-2010, 03:25 PM
Look, i'm talking about modifications to our immune system and the aging process which i consider a disease just like cancer, not consciousness.

I dont want my conitive abilites or my conciousness to be tampered with and i'm not a proponent of any such modifications, strictly aging and the prevention and eradication of disease.

The divine is a collective field of vision, that we call "cosmic consiousness" but until you have tapped into this source you are not part of it, your there just not active in the process, so yes you need to upgrade your level to reach another level.

Uncle Steezo
03-23-2010, 05:13 PM
so the collective conscious is a collection of participants?
elaborate.


as far as the aging and immune go...
eat healthily, exercise, sleep, stimulate the mind, practice good hygiene, meditate drink water, don't smoke.

but i'm sure that the above steps would extend your lifespan.

but the real question is, if people lived to be 200, would they walk the path?
or
would they continue to live the livestyle of 65-80 year lifespans?

A Dean Of Virus
03-23-2010, 10:07 PM
it can be argued that because the DNA molecule aids in communication within AND outside of the body, replacing organic with inorganic ultimately diminishes ones ability to participate in divine dialog.

http://data360.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/yoda.jpg?w=450

lol, no it can't. Our body is filled with inorganic elements. Without inorganic elements we'd be dead. There is only one organic element: carbon (anyone who's taken orgo will feel me on this). We're never gonna replace carbon man...some of the most technologically illmatic shit is made solely out of carbon. Your argument fails.

Living-jism
03-23-2010, 11:43 PM
fucking A man, you aint picking up no god damn pussy wearing that faggot ass suit around i dont care how much strength it gives you.

you get pussy by looking like Arnold, not by having his strength coming from some nerdy body suit.
In Japan and in the indie crowd "girly guys/skinny like aid victims" gets you indie pussy know wat im sayin?

Uncle Steezo
03-24-2010, 12:38 AM
lol, no it can't. Our body is filled with inorganic elements. Without inorganic elements we'd be dead. There is only one organic element: carbon (anyone who's taken orgo will feel me on this). We're never gonna replace carbon man...some of the most technologically illmatic shit is made solely out of carbon. Your argument fails.

i could have sworn i said replacing organic with inorganic. which has nothing to do with what you just said.

i could have also sworn that there are organic and inorganic forms of carbon. i mean if you want to argue that all carbon is organic then lets see you take a piece of charcoal and sew it into your chest.

and you can replace carbon, like when you take a carbon based heart and put a plastic one in there. not to say its wrong, just pointing out that carbon is being replaced all the time. like a leg with replaced with rubber and metal.


and i do believe there are organic forms of silicon too.

you might need to take orgo one more time.

SID
03-24-2010, 04:12 PM
so the collective conscious is a collection of participants?
elaborate.
Gavin you and i both know i populized the term "collective consciousness with my "do you know your potential" series of threads, don't try school me on the term.


as far as the aging and immune go...
eat healthily, exercise, sleep, stimulate the mind, practice good hygiene, meditate drink water, don't smoke.

Fair enough but even doing all that your guaranteed 70 years at best, plus i know perfectly healthy indivudals who have contracted cancer, and heard of other young chaps who have had strokes and cardiac arrests despite living a healthy life

Disease is unbias in its attack on life, any one is a target, that is my beef, diesease and aging.

but i'm sure that the above steps would extend your lifespan.

Possibly, yeah for a couple of years, but you could get bitten by a mosquito and contract malaria, theres to many variables to effect this theory, it's not that straightforward.


but the real question is, if people lived to be 200, would they walk the path?
or
would they continue to live the livestyle of 65-80 year lifespans?

Your mindstate and focus would undeiably shift if you knew you had 200 years on your clock, you would gain so much wisdom, and live in relativley stressfree comfort which would ease your mind and allow you to delve deeper into the rabbit hole without fear of "time".

Mumm Ra
03-24-2010, 06:08 PM
the term collective conscious has been around before you were born sid

Fair enough but even doing all that your guaranteed 70 years at bestat BEST? people can live up to 120 naturally. Living healthily will give you more than 'a couple years'


Your mindstate and focus would undeiably shift if you knew you had 200 years on your clock, you would gain so much wisdom, and live in relativley stressfree comfort which would ease your mind and allow you to delve deeper into the rabbit hole without fear of "time".can you explain any part of this?

why wouldn't living 200 years give people more reason to indulge in personal desires and such? that's just an extra 130 years to smoke ciggs and drink soda. People already live their whole lives without trying to seek wisdom.
if you fear time - you're probably not too wise to begin with (imo)
how would this bring about a stress free comfort? why is that good?
stress is in the mind - i can tell you i already live quite stress free - solely because I don't believe in stress
there's nothing a machine will do for stress

millionaires with all the 'comforts' in the world still shoot themselves in the head - i dont see the logic in thinking these things will change anything

SID
03-24-2010, 06:27 PM
the term collective conscious has been around before you were born sid

i popularized it in this place.

at best? People can live up to 120 naturally. Living healthily will give you more than 'a couple years'

the vast majority of the human population never make it to even see 100 and that's if there very very lucky, (good genes, etc)

can you explain any part of this?

Why wouldn't living 200 years give people more reason to indulge in personal desires and such? That's just an extra 130 years to smoke ciggs and drink soda. People already live their whole lives without trying to seek wisdom.
If you fear time - you're probably not too wise to begin with (imo)
how would this bring about a stress free comfort? Why is that good?
Stress is in the mind - i can tell you i already live quite stress free - solely because i don't believe in stress
there's nothing a machine will do for stress



well i'm not discussing what people would do with the time, wthey will do as they wish, i'm talking from a personal standpoint, and i personally believe the majority of people will begin a serious spiritual journey after 90 years on this earth, still healthy and free, packed with wisdom.

every one has an inate subconicous fear of time and the passing decomposition it brings, the gradual decomposition of memory, feeling, life, it's a built in instinct that we cannot help as humans.


machines? Transhumanism isint all cyborgs and machinery, you have no idea what your talking about you have no facts or substance to what your saying it's all meaningless conjecture, your just holding on to your lame beef with me.


1

Face of the Golden Falcon
03-24-2010, 06:44 PM
^any fear can be transcended. It is part of the spiritual work you're talking about. You seem to have it backwards though, removing stress to live spiritual when you should be living spiritual to remove stress.

HETEPU

Mumm Ra
03-24-2010, 06:51 PM
i popularized it in this place.
okay - i didn't know that
i can't say for the rest of the KTL posters - but ive been reading about it for years

the vast majority of the human population never make it to even see 100 and that's if there very very lucky, (good genes, etc)exactly - cuz they don't live healthily
healthily also means stress free, not just food and exercise, which nothing besides oneself can do


well i'm not discussing what people would do with the time, wthey will do as they wish, i'm talking from a personal standpoint, and i personally believe the majority of people will begin a serious spiritual journey after 90 years on this earth, still healthy and free, packed with wisdom.okay - i don't understand your opinion - but okay

every one has an inate subconicous fear of time and the passing decomposition it brings, the gradual decomposition of memory, feeling, life, it's a built in instinct that we cannot help as humans.I disagree - i think spirituality's aim is to overcome those base emotions that we allow to steer our lives, including fear


machines? Transhumanism isint all cyborgs and machinery, you have no idea what your talking about you have no facts or substance to what your saying it's all meaningless conjecture, your just holding on to your lame beef with me.third time you brought up beef - are you insecure?
machines, synthetics, biochemical agents, whatever - ANYTHING besides ones SELF will not be able to make you live less stress free

if you don't want to answer my questions by throwing some beef into this thread that's your choice i guess

Mumm Ra
03-24-2010, 06:52 PM
^any fear can be transcended. It is part of the spiritual work you're talking about. You seem to have it backwards though, removing stress to live spiritual when you should be living spiritual to remove stress.

HETEPU
exactly

SID
03-24-2010, 08:43 PM
If gavin co signed my posts this would be a different story.

Mumm Ra
03-25-2010, 06:48 AM
do grow up Sid -
i badly want to explain how ridiculous you sound but I know you'd only take it the wrong way coming from me

Uncle Steezo
03-25-2010, 04:40 PM
If gavin co signed my posts this would be a different story.


lol.

i'm trying to fux with you sid but you ain't givin me nothin to work with.

i keep bringin up this consciousness thing, prolly the one thing we can build on and you keep tallkin that kanye "can't tell me nothin" bullshit.

if the point of you taking a transhumanistic approach is to expand and elevate your consciousness, then lets talk about what consciousness is and how you can connect with it.

cause the reality is that time is relative. you can have all the time in the world in the window of 5 mins and 10 years can feel like a month.

so why do you need 200 years?

SID
03-26-2010, 04:08 PM
Some people search for enlightenment their whole life and never find it, prince siddarthu found it but who else has been officialy documented as actually attaining transendance?

200 years will give you more space to fill the cup, it will allow you to harvest a greater yield if you know what i mean.

Most transhumanists are deeply spiritual and they believe transhumanism is an ineviteable destiny for mankind, we need to constantly challenge ourselves, give meaning to our existence while we live it.

Whats your problem with tanshumanism what don't you agree with?

Uncle Steezo
03-26-2010, 04:22 PM
cause i feel like its cutting corners.
think liposuction.

SID
03-26-2010, 04:27 PM
Elaborate....

A Dean Of Virus
03-26-2010, 11:57 PM
cause i feel like its cutting corners.
think liposuction.

liposuction will only remove fat, not keep it off. A healthy lifestyle combined with solid transhumanism is deadly....lol @ ironic puns

A Dean Of Virus
03-27-2010, 12:09 AM
i could have sworn i said replacing organic with inorganic. which has nothing to do with what you just said.

i could have also sworn that there are organic and inorganic forms of carbon. i mean if you want to argue that all carbon is organic then lets see you take a piece of charcoal and sew it into your chest.

and you can replace carbon, like when you take a carbon based heart and put a plastic one in there. not to say its wrong, just pointing out that carbon is being replaced all the time. like a leg with replaced with rubber and metal.


and i do believe there are organic forms of silicon too.

you might need to take orgo one more time.

so we're talking semantics? Sorry man but the "organic" in organic chemistry literally means "the study of carbon-based compounds". Carbon isn't always getting replaced though...Graphene might be the next big thing for microprocessor technology...it's a sheet of carbon only one cell thick. Again, organic. There are no organic "forms" of silicon. Sure, it's directly below Carbon on the periodic table and has similar properties but it is not a building block for organic synthesis...usually it works as a lewis acid catalyst or protecting group but that's about it.

And lol @ replacing carbon with plastic....plastic is an organic polymer. Change your diction to "natural v. man-made", because that's what you're arguing here.

Rollo
03-27-2010, 12:15 AM
liposuction will only remove fat, not keep it off. A healthy lifestyle combined with solid transhumanism is deadly....lol @ ironic puns

Well, technically it will keep that particular fat off.
Actually, they put it in a bag, the rest is on you.
Of course, a healthy lifestyle will help you avoid the need for transhumanism via cybernetic modification and lipo but well... this would be boring then wouldn't it?

A Dean Of Virus
03-27-2010, 12:23 AM
actually, no. A healthy lifestyle won't let you live forever. Turning down help is foolish. Though I agree...one of the things I hate about pop transhumanism is how all these fools think they can do w/e they want and then count on science to bail them out...that's so dumb, considering they'll probably die before the tech can even be implemented in humans.

As for the lipo, are you sure about that? I thought there was a specific gland reduction surgery they did to "keep fat off", because while they can take away some of your fat cells, the rest can grow larger and give you the gut again. So basically if you have no fat cells left in your lower stomach and start putting on pounds, your core is gonna look WEIRD as fuck.

Rollo
03-27-2010, 12:36 AM
actually, no. A healthy lifestyle won't let you live forever








Cybernetics run their own risks. No assurances there either.

As for the lipo, are you sure about that? I thought there was a specific gland reduction surgery they did to "keep fat off", because while they can take away some of your fat cells, the rest can grow larger and give you the gut again. So basically if you have no fat cells left in your lower stomach and start putting on pounds, your core is gonna look WEIRD as fuck.


Well sure, you can get fat again. I mean the fat they take is gone lol
You'll always have some fat, it does serve a practical purpose you know.
Fat cells once they expand stay that way.
It's the same when you talk wrinkles. Even when you use the injections to tighten or have incisions and the skin pulled up, like elastic almost, they're loose. You're prolonging the inevitable.


If you really wanna be rid of flabby gut for good, gastric bypass is the way to go.
If you gorge yourself, you DIE!

WARPATH
03-27-2010, 12:43 AM
That shit with nano machines....

yeah it's going to be like Metal Gear Solid. Soldiers will be able to synchronize in combat with each other. It'll keep them from shitting their pants in the field.

WARPATH
03-27-2010, 12:45 AM
Your getting it twisted.

Death stops people in theair search for enlightenment, they may never finish their journey on earth even though they were so close, i'm a proponent of a disease free world and nanomachines to help us heal and fight infection easier so we can make the most out of our short period.

Cybernetics will be used in the military eventually.

Gwasshoppa

Death is enlightenment.

WARPATH
03-27-2010, 12:50 AM
i see technology as a product of an imbalance - predominately left brained thinking

the left brain is the separator and the right brain is the unifier generally speaking - the left brain will see trees and not the forest, separate wholes into parts, and deal with trying to look outside of one's self for guidance.
you can tell the west is predominately left brained* - they have always been the most technological and least spiritual group of people at the same time.

as far as science - science can be anything, it just means 'to know'

but again, those are just my views :dududu:

* Pre european times, see ish #88 ~Steve

SID
03-27-2010, 09:11 AM
Gwasshoppa

Death is enlightenment.

Death will only yield life for those who took the time to cultivate their conciousness to a transendant level, if you dident glimpse behind the veil of illusion once during your lifetime what makes you think you will see past it in death.

SID
03-27-2010, 09:12 AM
That shit with nano machines....

yeah it's going to be like Metal Gear Solid. Soldiers will be able to synchronize in combat with each other. It'll keep them from shitting their pants in the field.

Yeah it's all gonna happen man, just a matter of time, there just waiting for morals and principles to dissolve which is already happening before they implement the tech.

Uncle Steezo
03-27-2010, 12:25 PM
my point is that life extension, in and of itself, does not lead to enlightenment.

WARPATH
03-28-2010, 12:58 AM
Death will only yield life for those who took the time to cultivate their conciousness to a transendant level, if you dident glimpse behind the veil of illusion once during your lifetime what makes you think you will see past it in death.

What make you think you won't?

I don't deal in illusions.

We are born to live. I'm all about prolonging life to enjoy my children, the relationships with my friends and family, and enjoying the things I like in general...but Sooner or later we all die.

You think your are special at death because you are "enlightened"? If you died today, what would give you the edge over a baby or a child? What about an elder?

Uncle Steezo
03-28-2010, 01:54 AM
What make you think you won't?

I don't deal in illusions.

We are born to live. I'm all about prolonging life to enjoy my children, the relationships with my friends and family, and enjoying the things I like in general...but Sooner or later we all die.

You think your are special at death because you are "enlightened"? If you died today, what would give you the edge over a baby or a child? What about an elder?

interesting.
keep going.

SID
03-28-2010, 01:18 PM
my point is that life extension, in and of itself, does not lead to enlightenment.

I never said it did, i said it would help.

SID
03-28-2010, 01:23 PM
What make you think you won't?

I don't deal in illusions.

We are born to live. I'm all about prolonging life to enjoy my children, the relationships with my friends and family, and enjoying the things I like in general...but Sooner or later we all die.

You think your are special at death because you are "enlightened"? If you died today, what would give you the edge over a baby or a child? What about an elder?

We are born to "live" yeah sure, but what is living? friends and family is the centre of all our universes but having said that concsiouness cultivation should not be neglected while having fun and enjoying the sun.

If i did today i would imagine i have built up a strong mind, a mind strong enough to cheat death.

This is a personal belief you may not agree with it, i don't want you to, you have to find your own truths and follow them through, but basically what i'm saying is that i believe if we do not try to expand and train our brain and our concsiouness it will not survive death and the explosion of energy that brings.

Mumm Ra
03-28-2010, 05:22 PM
how does one cultivate their consciousness?
what is involved?

Uncle Steezo
03-28-2010, 08:05 PM
i see where you are coming from. but the survival of the death event is not cheating death IMO. but we may be talking semantics.

Rollo
03-28-2010, 10:29 PM
Born to live??
Aren't you born to die?

The degradation of all structures better known as entropy devours everything.
You're not born to live, you're born to reproduce then die.
Unless you mean on some metaphysical realm in which case, how do you know you were born at all?
Maybe you've always been even if not necessarily as one.
Maybe you've always been and simply haven't realized it yet.
Maybe your death is that realization.

A Dean Of Virus
03-29-2010, 01:17 AM
Cybernetics run their own risks. No assurances there either.


Where did I say cybernetics was the solution? At any rate, you're completely missing the point that I'm getting at but it's cool.


Well sure, you can get fat again. I mean the fat they take is gone lol
You'll always have some fat, it does serve a practical purpose you know.
Fat cells once they expand stay that way.
It's the same when you talk wrinkles. Even when you use the injections to tighten or have incisions and the skin pulled up, like elastic almost, they're loose. You're prolonging the inevitable.


If you really wanna be rid of flabby gut for good, gastric bypass is the way to go.
If you gorge yourself, you DIE!

Um...fat cells shrink or expand based on your diet/exercise habits. The number of fat cells will stay constant though.

Rollo
03-29-2010, 02:06 AM
Where did I say cybernetics was the solution?

Then I misread what you were implying.
[quote]
Um...fat cells shrink or expand based on your diet/exercise habits.
Not exactly. Yes they shrink in regard to size, but they don't tighten back to their original form because the reserves in the cells never completely empty. Triaglycerol when you gain weight has to be taken out of the cells through hydrolysis, the problem with that is that not all of the traglycerol is broken down into fatty acids.

Similarly, when you talk about cellulite on the face or thighs of a person, regardless of whether you tighten through injections or brow lift, it's likely going to swell up again...


In short, if you were once a fat fuck, regardless of whether or not you lost weight.
You will still be more prone to blimping up than someone who never swoll up to begin with.
Which goes back to my previous point, they can remove the gut... but it's up to you to keep it off.



The number of fat cells will stay constant though.

I wasn't debating that.

WARPATH
03-29-2010, 01:28 PM
interesting.
keep going.

I'll try while I address Shallah comments. I just came out of sweat lodge when I wrote that, I was still on a spiritual high....

What make you think you won't?

I don't deal in illusions.

We are born to live. I'm all about prolonging life to enjoy my children, the relationships with my friends and family, and enjoying the things I like in general...but Sooner or later we all die.

You think your are special at death because you are "enlightened"? If you died today, what would give you the edge over a baby or a child? What about an elder?

We are born to "live" yeah sure, but what is living? friends and family is the centre of all our universes but having said that concsiouness cultivation should not be neglected while having fun and enjoying the sun.

If i did today i would imagine i have built up a strong mind, a mind strong enough to cheat death.

This is a personal belief you may not agree with it, i don't want you to, you have to find your own truths and follow them through, but basically what i'm saying is that i believe if we do not try to expand and train our brain and our concsiouness it will not survive death and the explosion of energy that brings.

But see why are you trying to cheat death? It's impossible, We all die eventually. Children don't have a chance to "cheat" death in the sense that they can train their consciousness......

What good is enlightenment if you are not enjoying the relationships between you and your kin? What is the point of trying to continue existence if you can not continue those relationships?

To my knowledge, there is already a system set in motion after we die. There are those who came before us and those who will continue to come back after we are gone.

Rollo
03-29-2010, 01:58 PM
Cheating death isn't impossible.
There is an organism already on earth that is immortal.
http://www.jellyfishfacts.net/turritopsis-nutricula-immortal-jellyfish.html

It ages backward after it reproduces.

Still, we aren't jellyfish.
I think we'd have to go full out synthetic organs and bodies to stay alive forever....
Which may or may not be a bad thing.

One thing, we could keep a memory bank of our memories and thoughts and load those to a clone we have in suspended animation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694713.shtml

http://www.artificialmemory.net/(S(stq4be45htfzhradsdlqien1))/artificialmemory.aspx?ID=21129&ISUBS=1

Now, to find a way to transfer those thoughts kept in an memory bank to the clone's head....
You could do it daily... some sort of brain drain everytime you go to bed.
When you die or get so old and decrepid you no longer wish to live, you can just have the much younger clone activated.
And that clone can have a clone and so on and so on.

WARPATH
03-29-2010, 02:50 PM
Cheating death isn't impossible.
There is an organism already on earth that is immortal.
http://www.jellyfishfacts.net/turritopsis-nutricula-immortal-jellyfish.html

It ages backward after it reproduces.

Still, we aren't jellyfish.
I think we'd have to go full out synthetic organs and bodies to stay alive forever....
Which may or may not be a bad thing.

One thing, we could keep a memory bank of our memories and thoughts and load those to a clone we have in suspended animation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694713.shtml

http://www.artificialmemory.net/(S(stq4be45htfzhradsdlqien1))/artificialmemory.aspx?ID=21129&ISUBS=1 (http://www.artificialmemory.net/%28S%28stq4be45htfzhradsdlqien1%29%29/artificialmemory.aspx?ID=21129&ISUBS=1)

Now, to find a way to transfer those thoughts kept in an memory bank to the clone's head....
You could do it daily... some sort of brain drain everytime you go to bed.
When you die or get so old and decrepid you no longer wish to live, you can just have the much younger clone activated.
And that clone can have a clone and so on and so on.

What's going to stop a clone from getting hit by a bus or some other random accident?

If you were a clone whom had it's memories implanted, are you really that person or just an artificial copy with someone else's memories?

Rollo
03-29-2010, 03:29 PM
What's going to stop a clone from getting hit by a bus or some other random accident?




True, keep multiple.... Of course the earth could be hit be a gamma or something else stupid as well. It still increases your chances of longevity with the prospect of having a clone.



If you were a clone whom had it's memories implanted, are you really that person or just an artificial copy with someone else's memories?

What is it that makes you you? I think it's a combination of anatomy and memories so...
I guess you could always go with a synthetic frame rather than a full out clone.
You'd be you, as a machine. Then you'd have no choice but to be what's implanted.

Of course, some people would say that's immoral.
But... pssshhh

WARPATH
03-29-2010, 03:56 PM
True, keep multiple.... Of course the earth could be hit be a gamma or something else stupid as well. It still increases your chances of longevity with the prospect of having a clone.



What is it that makes you you? I think it's a combination of anatomy and memories so...
I guess you could always go with a synthetic frame rather than a full out clone.
You'd be you, as a machine. Then you'd have no choice but to be what's implanted.

Of course, some people would say that's immoral.
But... pssshhh

So if you tape record your voice, is that your voice, or a tape recording of your voice?

Rollo
03-29-2010, 05:45 PM
So if you tape record your voice, is that your voice, or a tape recording of your voice?

If I had no voice I don't think I'd cease being me. That's not a very good example.
But to answer your question, that's my voice on cassette.
Similarly, a machine with my brain or a body of mine with modifications is me with a new frame.
A clone with my experiences, personality, conscious, ideas and understanding is just a newer version of me.

(I think)
Some parts of the mind aren't so easily accounted for...
Going back to jellyfish, these animals literally have no brain, yet the box jellyfish actually swims and knows to go around things...

That might be a monkey wrench in my whole premise.

WARPATH
03-29-2010, 06:03 PM
If I had no voice I don't think I'd cease being me. That's not a very good example.
But to answer your question, that's my voice on cassette.
Similarly, a machine with my brain or a body of mine with modifications is me with a new frame.
A clone with my experiences, personality, conscious, ideas and understanding is just a newer version of me.

(I think)
Some parts of the mind aren't so easily accounted for...
Going back to jellyfish, these animals literally have no brain, yet the box jellyfish actually swims and knows to go around things...

That might be a monkey wrench in my whole premise.

That's your voice on cassette.

That's your brain waves on a clone.

It may act like you, talk like you, and think it's you. But is that you?

LORD NOSE
03-29-2010, 07:15 PM
lol

AcidPhosphate69
03-29-2010, 07:15 PM
Put it like this there is a padlock locking the true potential of science and what we can do with it, they have locked the padlock at the behest of the god fearing and under international ethic laws.

Once these barriers get broken down, (which will gradually happen as we loom into the future and morals and ideologies dissolve), they will unlock the padlock.

I believe there needs to be a balance. Just good common sense there. I am leery to the idea that an unheeled push in sciences is anything but a faint gamble at best.

Humanity is a thing that I think a lot of people lost touch with. If anything, I believe cyber-augmented people is a horrible thing and so insanely favorable to be abused by those in power, that's it's not worth it.

Put it this way; you're insanely strong and fast...if so, so what? Oh, you do things faster and can carry more...if so, so what? What the fuck are you really trying to accomplish?

The things that makes us human to begin with are our real root to the divine. It's those things, in which we all share. Things like art, language, etc. Even the trivial shit like every dude pretty much has a blast pissing outside. It's just what it is.

I'm not against technology, I'm just against fake humans being in charge of how it's used. More often than not, it's used for the exact opposite of expanding or enlightening humanity.

Uncle Steezo
03-29-2010, 08:46 PM
true^ then you have the issues of "master race" where those with the means become the dominant breed. and we all know who has the means and what they stand for.

SID
03-29-2010, 08:53 PM
I'll try while I address Shallah comments. I just came out of sweat lodge when I wrote that, I was still on a spiritual high....





But see why are you trying to cheat death? It's impossible, We all die eventually. Children don't have a chance to "cheat" death in the sense that they can train their consciousness......

What good is enlightenment if you are not enjoying the relationships between you and your kin? What is the point of trying to continue existence if you can not continue those relationships?

To my knowledge, there is already a system set in motion after we die. There are those who came before us and those who will continue to come back after we are gone.


Death, death is extinction of any form of existence whatsoever, even of the spirit, i think it has only been surpassed by those who understood the nature of reality, for people who completely detached themselves from dogma, from authority, soceity from all these things we percieve as human, its like build yourself instead of having a priest build it for you, enlightenment is the realization of how things work, on a level.

There is one being i know attained enlightenment, he saw past the curtain during life, he was prepared, well prepared and ready.

http://i40.tinypic.com/6e1zsi.jpg



I believe there needs to be a balance. Just good common sense there. I am leery to the idea that an unheeled push in sciences is anything but a faint gamble at best.

Humanity is a thing that I think a lot of people lost touch with. If anything, I believe cyber-augmented people is a horrible thing and so insanely favorable to be abused by those in power, that's it's not worth it.


Wow you got me on that part, it's true we need to get in touch with our humanity before anything else, it is slowly deteriorating we have neglected it, totally with you on that one, i'm opting more for nanomachines and stem cell research to an extent, nanotech you wont see, wont feel, wont know is there, just acting as a mechanically engineered super cell.

They could create disease fighting nanomachines that would kill cancer like a napalm in vietnam, i endorse their use definitely why not?

Stem cell research to the extent where human tissue is grown, not humans, braindead or not.

Mumm Ra
03-29-2010, 09:08 PM
Wow you got me on that part, it's true we need to get in touch with our humanity before anything else, it is slowly deteriorating we have neglected it, totally with you on that one
im pretty sure i was trying to argue that we need knowledge of self (humanity) first before all else since my first post
but that's cool

Rollo
03-29-2010, 09:18 PM
That's your voice on cassette.

That's your brain waves on a clone.



Brain waves? No. Information, essence and where I last was? Yes.
It's the only truth known, why wouldn't it be me? Certainly it's my mind.
What am I without a mind? Just saying...

Mumm Ra
03-29-2010, 09:28 PM
where does your will lie then?
is your will not 'you'?
and is not 'will' immaterial?
meaning...even before a physical thought could be willed into existence, something from an immaterial realm had to initiate it

memories/ thoughts/ feelings can change - or even be incorrect
imo they are just conditionings on the real 'you'

just a few thoughts

LORD NOSE
03-29-2010, 09:36 PM
are sound and light waves considered immaterial ?

Mumm Ra
03-29-2010, 09:38 PM
i would saaaay......yes
energy is also immaterial - i think
energy needs matter for us to see it manifest
nobody's ever witnessed energy without a conduit

Rollo
03-29-2010, 09:39 PM
where does your will lie then?
is your will not 'you'?



Are my thoughts, feelings and understanding not the factors that articulate my will?
If you believe in things that are destined, why are those experiences, thoughts and feelings not a part of the same destiny?
And if I can encapsulate them and reproduce them, how have I violated my will? How do we know that that iniative and that innovation is not a part of the same ever changing process I currently go through?


I'm not saying I will do it. Just saying I don't know that it would be wrong.


and is not 'will' immaterial?
meaning...even before a physical thought could be willed into existence, something from an immaterial realm had to initiate it

Certainly, but isn't it reasonable for us to assume that something powerful enough to allow sentient beings like us to exist in the first place, would have taken this sort of second life premise into consideration to begin with?
All I did was take one of man's most simple desires and imagine.

I can't fathom that such an intellect would never think about that if little old me did...

memories/ thoughts/ feelings can change - or even be incorrect

True, but they define how my personality resonates at any given moment.

imo they are just conditionings on the real 'you'

just a few thoughts


New perspectives are always appreciated.

Mumm Ra
03-29-2010, 09:43 PM
peace rollo

Rollo
03-29-2010, 09:45 PM
are sound and light waves considered immaterial ?

Light waves are made of physical particles called quanta, sound waves are merely vibrations.
I'm not sure whether sound waves would themselves be called material though.
They're essentially the vibration of particles, do you consider an action material? Not really... I don't think lol

LORD NOSE
03-29-2010, 09:48 PM
i would saaaay......yes
energy is also immaterial - i think
energy needs matter for us to see it manifest
nobody's ever witnessed energy without a conduit

this is a good thing


cause my whole theme was...if it exist, then it's material and has a location

but the way you describe it works also

LORD NOSE
03-29-2010, 09:50 PM
Light waves are made of physical particles called quanta, sound waves are merely vibrations.
I'm not sure whether sound waves would themselves be called material though.
They're essentially the vibration of particles, do you consider an action material? Not really... I don't think lol


now that i look at it, the word material throws off the point

the good word to use would be 'physical'

Mumm Ra
03-29-2010, 09:53 PM
^ true
good build

Face of the Golden Falcon
03-29-2010, 09:57 PM
Death, death is extinction of any form of existence whatsoever, even of the spirit, i think it has only been surpassed by those who understood the nature of reality, for people who completely detached themselves from dogma, from authority, soceity from all these things we percieve as human, its like build yourself instead of having a priest build it for you, enlightenment is the realization of how things work, on a level.

There is one being i know attained enlightenment, he saw past the curtain during life, he was prepared, well prepared and ready.

What is the Spirit?

How do you know death is the extinction of the "Spirit"?

If you do know then does that mean you understand the nature of reality? (Which was your definition of enlightenment):)

This topic gets me thinking...

Why are we so arrogant as to think we need to add on to the physical vehicle that has been made for us?

If we need an upgrade don't you (not directed at anyone in particular) think the Supreme Consciousness will take care of that for us through natural evolution? (something I think is going to happen real soon!)

Then again, maybe trans-humanism is our natural evolution...?

Maybe. But only if the process comes about through the adherence to the Divine Law.

Either way, what ever form of vehicle we are given to move through this current reality we must learn to abide by the Law set into place otherwise things will get messy (messier).

HETEPU

A Dean Of Virus
03-29-2010, 10:06 PM
What's going to stop a clone from getting hit by a bus or some other random accident?

If you were a clone whom had it's memories implanted, are you really that person or just an artificial copy with someone else's memories?

In a concrete sense, you are. Same physical and mental make-up.

SID
03-29-2010, 10:33 PM
Then again, maybe trans-humanism is our natural evolution...?


Yeah that's kinda the jist of it.

SID
03-29-2010, 10:35 PM
No i just feel like you are a homosexual chasing me round this forum, and i don't like the amount of attention you lavish on me.

I'm charmed, but NO, i'm sorry.

Mumm Ra
03-29-2010, 10:39 PM
you still don't see it sid -
not once have i said anything out of line to you in KTL
not once have i said anything disrespectful, or brought any beef here
you are the only one who is unable to separate the two

KTL is like fight club to me - you might as well be another person who i never met

i mean....is what i said a couple posts back so wrong?
don't get emotional
tbh - i don't even post in a lot of the same ktl threads as you - if something doesn't interest me i leave it alone - i don't jump in and ask why you made such a thread if i don't have an opinion on it

Face of the Golden Falcon
03-29-2010, 11:03 PM
Yeah that's kinda the jist of it.

..but is it natural if it doesn't adhere to natural Law?

HETEPU

SID
03-29-2010, 11:06 PM
What is natural law, what law are we breaking?

LORD NOSE
03-29-2010, 11:08 PM
it was said that there is no such thing as unnatural

i see that as saying that everything is in a natural process no matter how catastrophic the outcome may be for you and us

Face of the Golden Falcon
03-29-2010, 11:38 PM
What is natural law, what law are we breaking?

It's not about breaking a law, this law or that law. Don't worry I'm not talking some 10 commandments type bullshit. It's like, you can't break the law of gravity but if you act out of harmony with it things end up bad. There are laws just like this that govern our relationships with people, animals our environment etc etc. They've been called morals, but morals have been perverted to the point where good and evil have been called "points of view".


it was said that there is no such thing as unnatural

i see that as saying that everything is in a natural process no matter how catastrophic the outcome may be for you and us

True. That's because all is governed by Natural (Universal, Divine...) Law. In that, if something begins to act in a way that is out of harmony with the Law (which may be perceived as unnatural) then the Law is protected thru Divine Justice which balances things out. This may include a catastrophic outcome as you said and that in itself is part of a natural process.

However we choose to act either in harmony with or apart from the Law we will be governed by it.

Trans-humanism then, I guess will help the process of enlightenment because if we choose to proceed down that path without the Divine Wisdom to do so in harmony with the Law then we will be taught a lesson. Everything is moving forward whether we move with it or against will determine whether the movement will be a smooth process.

HETEPU

SID
03-30-2010, 08:31 AM
It's not about breaking a law, this law or that law. Don't worry I'm not talking some 10 commandments type bullshit. It's like, you can't break the law of gravity but if you act out of harmony with it things end up bad. There are laws just like this that govern our relationships with people, animals our environment etc etc. They've been called morals, but morals have been perverted to the point where good and evil have been called "points of view".


I'm not advocating interference with natrual phenomena and processes, i'm saying that we can live better more productive lifes under certain transhumanist tech, electricty is a natrualy occuring element right? so is metal, so whats the harm in putting it inside us?

I mean we drink soda which is the definition of unatrual, we smoke cigs pollute our system with synthesized chemical compounds, why not have a solid snake eye patch, why the fuck not?.

Uncle Steezo
03-30-2010, 10:42 AM
the way i can see transhumanism being effective is if/when we have realized the potential of our natural (unaugmented) state. this ironically may take a lifetime in itself.

SID
03-31-2010, 08:08 AM
What i am saying is that we are not ready, and judging by current human nature we will never be, there either has to be a global shift in concsiousness or there needs to be a catalyst to change the way we percieve ourselves and others, i think transhumanism could be the catalyst.

Uncle Steezo
03-31-2010, 08:28 AM
give a kid a book of matches?

SID
03-31-2010, 08:45 AM
^has no real response or rebuttal to what i said but felt the need to post something nonetheless

WARPATH
03-31-2010, 12:33 PM
Death, death is extinction of any form of existence whatsoever, even of the spirit, i think it has only been surpassed by those who understood the nature of reality, for people who completely detached themselves from dogma, from authority, soceity from all these things we percieve as human, its like build yourself instead of having a priest build it for you, enlightenment is the realization of how things work, on a level.

There is one being i know attained enlightenment, he saw past the curtain during life, he was prepared, well prepared and ready.

http://i40.tinypic.com/6e1zsi.jpg




I promote building ones own spirituality also. But it's not to live after my body dies. It's to live now with my children in peace.


So my questions to you now is:

If enlightenment is the realization of how things work, what is there after you figure it out?

Uncle Steezo
03-31-2010, 01:13 PM
^has no real response or rebuttal to what i said but felt the need to post something nonetheless
if you want me to say it the looong way...
i think it would be irresposible to augment someone who has not gone thru a shift of consciousness considering that we are talking about the same mentality that created the atom bomb.

its putting the cart before the horse.
matches in the hands of a child.

get it?

SID
04-01-2010, 08:32 AM
If enlightenment is the realization of how things work, what is there after you figure it out?

There is peace, there is preperation for what lies beyond the grave, what we are and what our purpose is, i believe in enlightenment, and i believe it is needed to soldify your conciosuness, in my view (which is partly built up on scientific debates with a scientist)

Conciousness will transfer as a whole, or will disperse in all directions with no sentient entity formed but still self aware, if you want to be a sentient being you must transfer your conciousness as a whole which in my view requires enlightenment.

WARPATH
04-01-2010, 11:56 AM
There is peace, there is preperation for what lies beyond the grave, what we are and what our purpose is, i believe in enlightenment, and i believe it is needed to soldify your conciosuness, in my view (which is partly built up on scientific debates with a scientist)

Conciousness will transfer as a whole, or will disperse in all directions with no sentient entity formed but still self aware, if you want to be a sentient being you must transfer your conciousness as a whole which in my view requires enlightenment.

Now you are a sentient building.

99% of the people you love will not be enlightened, according to your standards. What are you going to do?

What else is there? What is the point?

SID
04-01-2010, 06:38 PM
It's a personal journey, i was born alone i will die alone, people love, people hate, when you realize how insignificant these emotions are in universal terms, you will understand where i am coming from.

Being loved is nice, but that about it.

Being eternal is even better.

Uncle Steezo
04-01-2010, 09:00 PM
all you need is love.
and if you believe in a universal consciousness, you are never alone.

SID
04-02-2010, 03:39 PM
What good is love going to do your corpse?

Face of the Golden Falcon
04-02-2010, 07:47 PM
Love will break your corpse down and make into something else of use once you're finished with it. That's what love is. Like the bee that freely pollinates the flowers and in return freely receives the nectar it needs to sustain its life. After the Earth has given you so much you will eventually give back to the Earth.

Don't worry about your corpse. It knows what to do once you die.

HETEPU

SID
04-02-2010, 08:32 PM
Insects, micro organisms and natrual processes will break down your corpse.

Love is left at the door.

Face of the Golden Falcon
04-02-2010, 09:02 PM
Your understanding of love is different to mine then. What you just said is basically what I said. Except I called that process love.

HETEPU

Mumm Ra
04-02-2010, 09:19 PM
giving while seeking nothing in return
love

SID
04-04-2010, 11:45 AM
Your understanding of love is different to mine then. What you just said is basically what I said. Except I called that process love.

HETEPU

I think your romanticizing reality a bit there.

But lets take it back to topic, let me give you my summary.


Certain aspects of Transhumanism can be used to improve the quality of life, which in turn will make people more happy, which will release copious amounts of Dopamine, which will allow people to be natrualy happy without eating fudge cake or getting high or whatever.

When people are happy they are more close to the divine and to the human race, there is abdundance of dark energy in the world due to lack of happiness, which comes from several factors namely quality of life, if we can improve that, everything else will follow like dominos.

Face of the Golden Falcon
04-04-2010, 08:51 PM
^
love has little to nothing to do with romance.

...I bet there are murderers, rapists and pedophiles who are happy as they commit their atrocities. It doesn't matter whether you are happy because you are comfortable in your improved quality of life or happy eating a fudge cake, so long as you believe the source of that happiness to be something outside of self then you are no closer to the divine.

HETEPU

DiGitalChamberz
04-04-2010, 09:10 PM
Understanding - the highest form... and the best part

WARPATH
04-04-2010, 09:14 PM
It's a personal journey, i was born alone i will die alone, people love, people hate, when you realize how insignificant these emotions are in universal terms, you will understand where i am coming from.

Being loved is nice, but that about it.

Being eternal is even better.

So....

Selfishness,

Apathy,

and

Arrogance

Are the keys to eternal life.

Not trying to launch a personal attack, I'm just saying......this is what you are telling me.

DiGitalChamberz
04-04-2010, 09:23 PM
works for corporations lol

A Dean Of Virus
04-04-2010, 10:28 PM
So....

Selfishness,

Apathy,

and

Arrogance

Are the keys to eternal life.

Not trying to launch a personal attack, I'm just saying......this is what you are telling me.

wow nice straw man there bud. Save your "love conquers all" bullshit...please.

WARPATH
04-04-2010, 10:32 PM
wow nice straw man there bud. Save your "love conquers all" bullshit...please.

troll

SID
04-05-2010, 11:40 AM
So....

Selfishness,

Apathy,

and

Arrogance

Are the keys to eternal life.

Not trying to launch a personal attack, I'm just saying......this is what you are telling me.

Where did you get those words from?

What's arrogant about whating a better quality of life for human beings.

What's selfish about wanting people to be truely happy.

If you knew you had 200 years on your clock imagine how sweet every day would be, imagine, just imagine.

WARPATH
04-05-2010, 02:52 PM
Where did you get those words from?

What's arrogant about whating a better quality of life for human beings.

What's selfish about wanting people to be truely happy.

If you knew you had 200 years on your clock imagine how sweet every day would be, imagine, just imagine.

Selfishness- To prolong your life longer without regard for the relationships you forge in life.

Apathy- The indifference to those relationships in return for eternal life.

Arrogance- The idea that you will obtain eternal life because your life style of meditation (in trying to see through an illusion) is superior to those who do not think like you.

Even with the ability to prolong your life, you would never, NEVER know if you still had 200 years left.

Look, this is where I'm coming from. I've had my brush with death on more than one occasion. I've been shot at, in several bad car accidents. I lost my brother a year ago in car accident. A girl-friend in high school to a car accident. My child hood friend shot by the police, another by a gang member, and another in a car accident.

Anything can happen. Each day is not promised.

SID
04-05-2010, 03:04 PM
Of course it's not, it's the security which makes people happy, the stability of knowing they got a certain amount of guaranteed years on this planet.

Obviously shit happens, but if it doesn't it would be nice to know your natural age limit.

Rollo
04-05-2010, 09:13 PM
Love is a misfiring of neurons to some....
What makes love any more real than a sugar high you get from eating chocolate?
What makes it any more meaningful then some corn ball hallmark greeting card which was written to prey on that very emotion in order to gain cash?

I don't know if I believe in love as anything more than a misfiring of neurons, but I know we are all dependent on it. If you don't have it for a long time you cease being you...

I know that from personal experience.

A Dean Of Virus
04-06-2010, 03:43 AM
^Disagree, I'm living proof that it is possible to enjoy life without loving people. BTW WARPATH...nice rep. "GTFO FAGGOT" really brings the message home. Where's that love you were talking about just a minute ago?

Rollo
04-06-2010, 04:30 AM
^Disagree, I'm living proof that it is possible to enjoy life without loving people. BTW WARPATH...nice rep. "GTFO FAGGOT" really brings the message home. Where's that love you were talking about just a minute ago?

I enjoy life, but that's not even what I implied.
You aren't the same person when people get cut off. The relationships you carry are what make you YOU.
When you drop those, your outlook, attitude and personna are permanently altered.

that is to say, without love, YOU as you are with family and friend ceases to be.
You die.... in a manner of speaking.

Going back to Shallah Justices remarks, if you're dead, do you really think you're going to care about whether or not you become worm food?
Enlightenment, if you think being enlightened only happens during life, what's the point in building yourself up to that state, knowing you're going to die anyway?

Just so you can look down on others?

I think immortality is a noble quest, but to simply seek spiritual fullfillment?
I have a question, what if there is no basis to spirituality? What if there is nothing greater than what's already in front of you? What if the only enlightenment to be found in life is by understanding and adapting to it's finite nature and all this interconnected conscious you feel is nothing more than what love seems?
A false misfiring of nerves?

Wouldn't that make anyone who seeks it a complete ass for wasting his time with it?

Some people accomplished greatness by putting their lives in constant peril and even when they failed they were and still are remembered as heros. What worth is there in living a long but mediocore life?

WARPATH
04-06-2010, 05:04 PM
^Disagree, I'm living proof that it is possible to enjoy life without loving people. BTW WARPATH...nice rep. "GTFO FAGGOT" really brings the message home. Where's that love you were talking about just a minute ago?

I'm talking about first of all the people in my immediate cipher, then community, then nation....

after that I could give a fuck. Who the fuck are you?

Do you need me in your quality world? Show some fucking respect then. No? Then fuck off, I don't have no time or love for hoes.

A Dean Of Virus
04-06-2010, 11:53 PM
...looks like you missed the sarcasm. Still, "GTFO FAGGOT" is lame, you could've come up with something better.

You aren't the same person when people get cut off. The relationships you carry are what make you YOU.
When you drop those, your outlook, attitude and personna are permanently altered.

that is to say, without love, YOU as you are with family and friend ceases to be.
You die.... in a manner of speaking.

It's only a negative to go without love if it's a positive to live with it. You can't lose what you never felt in the first place. That's just for me though...for pretty much everyone else in the world though, what you said is dead on.

SID
04-07-2010, 04:43 AM
Going back to Shallah Justices remarks, if you're dead, do you really think you're going to care about whether or not you become worm food?
Enlightenment, if you think being enlightened only happens during life, what's the point in building yourself up to that state, knowing you're going to die anyway?


Enlightenment is the realization of how the world is enginnered, what the fuel is and how to avoid the scrapyard, i believe that if your concsiousness is built up to such a high degree, it will survive death and become a sentient entity, thats my point of view anyway.

Fatal Guillotine
07-04-2012, 03:07 PM
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