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Rollo
03-28-2010, 05:43 PM
At what point in your mind is it justifiable to end someone else's life?
I'm just curious what people think...
Is it only in defense?
Is it only for the absolutely necessary times?
Or is it something to be used preventatively?

DiGitalChamberz
03-28-2010, 06:06 PM
Life should only be taken in self defense and or in Justice

Frank Sobotka
03-29-2010, 10:11 AM
When I can only live if I do so

Uncle Steezo
03-30-2010, 09:52 AM
philosophically, i can't think of a good reason. but practically speaking, defense, since we are obligated to protect life including our own.

praise the almitey W
04-01-2010, 11:53 AM
defense is one reason but if you cant stand seeing someone hooked up to a machine its the only other time that is acceptable to me.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 12:16 PM
defense, since we are obligated to protect life including our own.
no we're not

imo its never justafiable..this of course is not me saying that in a wild situation i wouldnt...all im saying is if i did, it wouldnt be justifiable. its not ok to take a life, it never is. if someone is intent enough to kill me for w/e reason..and the only way to escape is to kill that person, i wont.

Uncle Steezo
04-01-2010, 12:35 PM
no we're not

yes we are.

its called preserving your species.
in a default state, we are biologically compelled to protect/preserve life.
on a metaphysical level, we are all expressions of the same life force which would mean protecting/preserving someone else's life, is protecting/preserving your own.


*edit*
sorry i misread your post and missed a big point.

so you would let someone kill you?

better yet...

you would let someone rape and murder your mother sister or daughter if the only way to stop the was to kill them?

theoretically speaking.

PALEFORCE
04-01-2010, 12:35 PM
http://www.kctv5.com/video/23013661/index.html

TheBoarzHeadBoy
04-01-2010, 04:28 PM
Do you want my realist animal spirit *glances at wunded* point of view or my philosophical universal justice point of view?

The first one is that you can kill for any reason you want. Just think of the worth of the person before you do so and weigh that against your reason to want or need to kill.

The second is that killing is always wrong and violence begets violence and war begets war and that the only way to break the cycle is to show compassion.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 04:59 PM
no we're not

imo its never justafiable..this of course is not me saying that in a wild situation i wouldnt...all im saying is if i did, it wouldnt be justifiable. its not ok to take a life, it never is. if someone is intent enough to kill me for w/e reason..and the only way to escape is to kill that person, i wont.

yes we are.

its called preserving your species.
in a default state, we are biologically compelled to protect/preserve life.
on a metaphysical level, we are all expressions of the same life force which would mean protecting/preserving someone else's life, is protecting/preserving your own.


*edit*
sorry i misread your post and missed a big point.

so you would let someone kill you?

better yet...

you would let someone rape and murder your mother sister or daughter if the only way to stop the was to kill them?

theoretically speaking.
i dont possess said biological compulsion, and no i wouldnt let those things happen..but thats my point with saying if some wild shit happened who knows what id do, it just wouldnt be justifiable in my eyes...still wrong. and still my decision because i could just let those things happen...however it isnt a biological need to preserve those in my species...its the refusal to accept anything bad happening to those i love. short list.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 05:04 PM
The second is that killing is always wrong and violence begets violence and war begets war and that the only way to break the cycle is to show compassion.
holla

check two
04-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Jack Kevorkian shouldn't have been put in jail.

Uncle Steezo
04-01-2010, 05:32 PM
i dont possess said biological compulsion, and no i wouldnt let those things happen..but thats my point with saying if some wild shit happened who knows what id do, it just wouldnt be justifiable in my eyes...still wrong. and still my decision because i could just let those things happen...however it isnt a biological need to preserve those in my species...its the refusal to accept anything bad happening to those i love. short list.
you are hard wired to defend yourself. fight or flight mode for example.
if i swing a baseball bat at your head you will cover your head, duck or block it... i would hope.
when you touch a hot plate you flinch.
you can't hold your breath till you die either.

protecting species...

if you saw a kid in the street and a car was coming would you let them get hit?
of course not.

now would you do the same for a squirrel?

but i'm not saying its purely biological. but its part of it.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 05:43 PM
really dude? heres the problem..life isnt a saw trap..so i can (most of the time) decide whether or not to kill a person to defend myself..it isnt a reflex..ur analogy is flawed big time.

SID
04-01-2010, 06:02 PM
As most of his theories are...


I personally cannot justify killing somebody, it is all to do with situation and enviroment.

Rollo
04-01-2010, 06:04 PM
I think taking life is justifiable for individuals.
If someone raped or tortured you or killed someone you love, you ought to be able to end their life.

1. They cannot be taken a chance on as far as reforming goes, because if they aren't really rehabilitated and they go back into society, the cost is one too high to pay.
2. They've taken from you something you wont ever get back. There can be no penance other than for them to die.

But, that's just my view.

As for the nature of man, I don't think it's a species thing. We have conceptual thought... I think if your actions incidentally lead to someone dying during an attack, that's probably not intentional/the outcome you had in mind. Incidental deaths happen.

On the other hand, to say you'd let yourself die? People have done that in history, I can't see it as serving any real purpose though.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 06:24 PM
its not to serve a purpose, u think its like a fuckin statement or something? i dont feel my life is any more valuable than anyone elses.

Lex Lugor
04-01-2010, 07:00 PM
I usually throw spiders out the front door I dont like to squash em. I dont draw the line at just beings of our intelligence I think its inhumane to decapitate a rat with a trap no matter how much of a nuisance they are.

It would bother me alot to kill a man even IN self defense, and though im sure we would both prefer to live, he brought about his own death by trying to end someone else. Had he stayed his black ass home, (because the guy I open my door to and found holding my television set is gonna be black) the encounter would have never happened, and if one of us is gonna die he is the one at fault so, yea.

Rollo
04-01-2010, 07:34 PM
its not to serve a purpose,
u think its like a fuckin statement or something? i dont feel my life is any more valuable than anyone elses.

Well, grammatically speaking, yes, it is a statement(Being a smart ass)
But if you don't mind my asking, if your life and his life are equal and your's can be thrown away by your lack of concern, why can't his?....

He seems to think his life is worth more, if you truly believe your life to be equal why not try and slit his throat as he does the same?

Seems sort of silly on my end.

All things should serve a purpose, those that don't are a waste.


Again though, it's just my opinion...

Rollo
04-01-2010, 07:36 PM
I usually throw spiders out the front door I dont like to squash em. .

I have a friend like that... I tell him that arachnids and insects lack the metacognitive faculties to feel pain but he still feels bad when one dies and angry at me when I stomp one...

WuCanada
04-01-2010, 07:38 PM
Life should only be taken in self defense and or in Justice

i understand the self defence part by justice??

Uncle Steezo
04-01-2010, 07:55 PM
really dude? heres the problem..life isnt a saw trap..so i can (most of the time) decide whether or not to kill a person to defend myself..it isnt a reflex..ur analogy is flawed big time.


of course u can, its called free will. but you and i both know that in times of high levels of stress such as life and death emergencies, we act out of reflex and instinct. but i'm gonna let you think you are different. maybe u ain't human.


sid, i will pray for you.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 08:07 PM
Well, grammatically speaking, yes, it is a statement(Being a smart ass)
But if you don't mind my asking, if your life and his life are equal and your's can be thrown away by your lack of concern, why can't his?....

He seems to think his life is worth more, if you truly believe your life to be equal why not try and slit his throat as he does the same?

Seems sort of silly on my end.

All things should serve a purpose, those that don't are a waste.


Again though, it's just my opinion...
again, i didnt say our lives were equal..my point is im in no position to judge that.

check two
04-01-2010, 08:21 PM
There are probably more squirrels I'd rather help save from an approaching car than people.

diggy
04-01-2010, 08:41 PM
I do not understand this taking/ending life thing.

What is life?

When does it start and why does it start?

Does it end when the body stops responding to stimuli or does it end at all?

Uncle Steezo
04-01-2010, 08:41 PM
There are probably more squirrels I'd rather help save from an approaching car than people.
what if the squirrel was wearing a flat brim?

Rollo
04-01-2010, 09:00 PM
again, i didnt say our lives were equal..
my point is im in no position to judge that.
But you just said
i dont feel my life is any more valuable than anyone elses.

So you had obviously already made a judgement on worth ....
Otherwise how would you know?

Your reasoning seems incomplete, either that or this is just not something you really want to consider.

Rollo
04-01-2010, 09:02 PM
what if the squirrel was wearing a flat brim?

lol

LORD NOSE
04-01-2010, 09:03 PM
I do not understand this taking/ending life thing.

What is life?

When does it start and why does it start?

Does it end when the body stops responding to stimuli or does it end at all?



also tryin to figure this out

if we are all animated by the hum, the hum continues, but we don't

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 09:25 PM
But you just said


So you had obviously already made a judgement on worth ....
Otherwise how would you know?

Your reasoning seems incomplete, either that or this is just not something you really want to consider.
what? how old are you? lmao

saying i dont feel my life is more valuable than any other person life doesnt mean i feel theyre equal..it means i dont feel the need to kill the person at the risk of losing my life. its not a question of our lives being equal therefore ditching the life value concept...its a question of me not feeling my life is superior. if the difference is really too hard for you to grasp...exit thread now..eloels. also what i mean is im in no position to judge that i mean im not gonna say..ur life is inferior to mine..so you die..because lives are worth more than that...and thats my point.

Uncle Steezo
04-01-2010, 09:33 PM
KU3DrvWVln0

check two
04-01-2010, 09:52 PM
Well if the squirrel was wearing a flat brim, I might still save him, but then throw the flat brim into the path of another oncoming vehicle. On second thought, that probably wouldn't do much further damage to those ugly caps anyway.

Rollo
04-01-2010, 10:36 PM
what? how old are you? lmao

saying i dont feel my life is more valuable than any other person life doesnt mean i feel theyre equal



So then, do you just think your life is absolutely less than everyone elses?
That statement as it stands really does not make sense although I see what you are implying now. The way you worded that is atrocious.


..it means i dont feel the need to kill the person at the risk of losing my life.
its not a question of our lives being equal therefore ditching the life value concept...its a question of me not feeling my life is superior.



Well, here's the thing, if you aren't in a position to judge, how do you know that your life isn't worth more than theirs? How do you know your life isn't worth ending theirs?

You can't have it both ways.
What you've said is a contradiction, if you can't judge then you don't know, if your life isn't superior than it's either on par or less...


So, what is it ? Do you just have no idea what you think about your life's worth or is it's worth less than, more than or equal?

Pick! lol





if the difference is really too hard for you to grasp

If your contradiction is too hard for you to grasp, then you must not have thought too hard about this lol....

...exit thread now..eloels. also what i mean is im in no position to judge that i mean im not gonna say..ur life is inferior to mine..so you die..because lives are worth more than that...and thats my point.

Lives are worth more than what?
Are you suggesting all lives are at least of a set worth? Then doesn't this make your life of a determinable value?
And if they aren't of the same set worth doesn't that imply there are superior lives?

You have to see the problem here, you just have to ....


I'm not trying to pesture you either,so don't feel like I'm just arguing to argue... You don't have to reply, it was never my intention to piss anyone off or bait anyone into a long ended discussion. It's just, what you've said, is a contradiction.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 10:48 PM
rollo my friend, i have to say...u are arguing just to argue..i made my point a long time ago, ur just busting my fucking chops with absurdities...im tired as a motherfucker so if i misspell or display poor grammar, ull have to forgive me. fuck that..looking back at what i said..EVERYTHING made sense...i just gave u a set of fucking RCA cables..explained their function..and u made a bowtie and told me i was wrong.

Rollo
04-01-2010, 11:14 PM
rollo my friend, i have to say...u are arguing just to argue




I haven't been arguing to argue. I've just been trying to get you to see why your reasoning is itself completely unreasonable.

You can't say "I can't judge but I know it's worth more than...."

"I can't judge but I know mine isn't more superior than..."

You just can't. It's a contradiction the way it is worded and for you to get mad at me for pointing it out is just lawlz...
And absurdities? It's not my fault you don't have a grasp on the language or of your own arguments....


Sheesh... If you don't like the discussion stop defending yourself.
You know, we wouldn't be rolling in this direction had you just let that "I don't think it serves a purpose" bit go....

But nooo.... now you're complaining that the argument you started isn't going your way pshh.. lol

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 11:20 PM
are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!?! you already said u know what the fuck im saying but ur just nitpicking at my grammar and spelling...seriously? and your gonna tell me ur NOT trying to bust my fuckin balls right now?

SIMPLE

my point is i wont make the decision on whether or not to end someones life because i dont have the overwhelming feeling that mine is more superior.


thats so goddamn simple..and i have said that


also, another problem ur having. me not feeling my life is more superior DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN I FEEL THEYRE EQUAL, i am not..by choice..putting myself in a position to decide which life remains on the planet.

Rollo
04-01-2010, 11:28 PM
are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!?! you already said u know what the fuck im saying


^ OVER-REACTION or OVARYACTION!!!


Yes. What you're saying though is flawed.
That's my gripe.
It's more than grammar....

You simply think "life is worth more than taking and it's not your place to judge who dies",
however you have already judged who lives and by that very same action you have decided you die.


If you thought your life was equal to or worth more than the other person's, you would protect it. So, clearly you must think yours is worth less.... He thinks his is worth enough to kill for, you obviously don't feel the same way.. So, hey, you're in agreement!

I'm not busting your balls and again, I am not making you reply.


You can stop any time you like, I think it's silly how mad you are getting over something I care so little about.

oDoUoSoKo
04-01-2010, 11:34 PM
i gotta tell u rollo, u are the one who overcomplicated this and therefore reduced it to a convoluted mess. the bottomline remains...judgin who will live or die is not the same as deciding that life itself has value. also me deciding id rather die..well i covered that already...open ur eyes...and that ovaryaction shit was fuckin stupid...refer to the feminism thread, Cholo.

Rollo
04-01-2010, 11:41 PM
i gotta tell u rollo, u are the one who overcomplicated

Who replied to who first? .........



this and therefore reduced it to a convoluted mess. the bottomline remains...judgin who will live or die is not the same as deciding that life itself has value.


It is. if you valued yours equally, you would try and kill him, if you valued yours more, you would try and kill him....

What you've said so far is contradicting and self defeating and the fact you can't see it is just hilarious to me.

Feminism thread? Why do I want to see that? I'm not into bull dykes or raggy bitches, though it feels like I've been square dancing with one for awhile now.

oDoUoSoKo
04-02-2010, 01:27 PM
asshole...what i mean by life has value is that opportunities exist for everyone that lives...me opining this is not the same as deciding someones life is more or less important than mine. nothing...literally nothing ive said is self defeating...why the fuck isnt anyone responding to this besides rolly polly?

Rollo
04-02-2010, 03:13 PM
asshole...what i mean by life has value is that opportunities exist for everyone that lives




What ? LMAO Oppurtunities have nothing to do with the value a life carries.
I'm sure he had lots of oppurtunities to do other things before he tried to kill you.
Does it many anything if he doesn't act upon those oppurtunities?

And if oppurtunities are worth, certainly your life still must not be worth as much as his as you are tossing your potential away and simply allowing yourself to be killed.


Again, you contradict yourself. You can't have it that way.

Uncle Steezo
04-02-2010, 03:44 PM
let me try to translate...

dusk- a life has too much value for me to end one, even if it means that mine will end.
rollo- just go ahead and say this^ cause what you said before is an infinite paradox.



optimally, dusk should be left with a stalemate in a fight to the death because on one hand, he has his life, which has great value, on the other hand, there is the attacker whos life also has great value.

the conflict comes when deciding if his own life, just because its his, tips the scales juuuuust enough to kill his opponent.
or...
his unwillingness to fight for his own life tips the scale in favor of his opponent, because his opponent's determination to live adds value to it.




eh ?

Lex Lugor
04-02-2010, 04:51 PM
*exits thread*

oDoUoSoKo
04-02-2010, 10:48 PM
its alright style, you tried..eloels. i made myself clear..there is no paradox, the problem is rollo is confusing what im saying. there is a difference between the value A life has IN GENERAL, and a specific life. I rather die, despite the worth of my life which i do care about, than take the life of another...because i dont feel my life SPECIFICALLY (i swear im about to color code things..eloels) makes a significant enough impact to keep around (seeing as how i KNOW MYSELF) vs a life im not familiar with, which has the potential to do whatever it wants. let me know if u understand this rollo..we'll proceed from there.

Uncle Steezo
04-02-2010, 11:39 PM
its alright style, you tried..eloels. i made myself clear..there is no paradox, the problem is rollo is confusing what im saying. there is a difference between the value A life has IN GENERAL, and a specific life. I rather die, despite the worth of my life which i do care about, than take the life of another...because i dont feel my life SPECIFICALLY makes a significant enough impact to keep around (seeing as how i KNOW MYSELF) vs a life im not familiar with, which has the potential to do whatever it wants. let me know if u understand this rollo..we'll proceed from there.


damn son. if i was a christian i'd say you need Jesus. lol. maybe a hug?
*opens arms*

come on....come on

oDoUoSoKo
04-02-2010, 11:41 PM
eloels nah man im straight (despite the jokes flyin round here..eloels) i meant it more like, in the grand scheme of things...im a small part.

Rollo
04-02-2010, 11:51 PM
its alright style, you tried..eloels. i made myself clear..there is no paradox, the problem is rollo is confusing


I've confused nothing. It is non-sensical to say you would let yourself die inspite of your life's value. Value is placed by people, if it isn't worth protecting, it isn't worth anything.

You can say "There is a difference between valuing a life and refusing to end someone else's", but there isn't. Your willingness to end their life is inseperable from the value of your own in this instance. Again, it's not a matter of ideology at that point. He doesn't value your life enough to let it continue, you don't value it enough to let it continue.... Ergo the worth set on your life is none.

Of course if we added more parties to the scenerio, maybe then your life with be worth someting, but in this hypothetical, no one else was mentioned.


Again, I got what you said, it's simply incorrect.

oDoUoSoKo
04-02-2010, 11:54 PM
i just want you to realize how litte you just contributed to the discussion...it is beyond me how anyone else is letting this slip by..is this Drunken Monk protocol? eloels.

Rollo
04-02-2010, 11:58 PM
i just want you to realize how litte you just contributed to the discussion...


I just want you to realize how moronic your philosophy is.

Here, when we have currency exchanged between countries, they use what are known as counters...

There's a table, two people sitting at it, you and another man.

You each have a counter(chip) and it represents your life, you both pull it off the table...

Tell me, of what worth is it? .....


(NONE)

Thanks for playing....
Jackass lol


And please, stop with the eloels that shit looks retarded.

oDoUoSoKo
04-03-2010, 12:10 AM
well done rollo, now tell me

HOW


THE


FUCK

DOES

THAT

CORRESPOND

WITH

WHAT

I

SAID.


choose your words carefully, lest i pull a Rollo..eloels.

DiGitalChamberz
04-03-2010, 12:15 AM
im so fuckin lost that im not coming back to this thread again...lol

oDoUoSoKo
04-03-2010, 12:17 AM
go back to page 2

PALEFORCE
04-03-2010, 12:21 AM
your not taking mine

and your not taking it from those i love

fall back and i might spare yours

Rollo
04-03-2010, 12:25 AM
....



Are you retarded? Like seriously?

Here's a coin, here's a table wth a set of monetary values, from the absolute smallest amount to say... $ 100 U.S. I say this coin isn't fit to be on this table, I throw it in the floor.
If the coin isn't worth anything on the table, it's worthless.


Now, a life, it's value represented by the experiences, skills and promise of potential yet to be realized.
Let someone end it, what was it's worth?

Obviously not enough to keep around....

Again 0, none, nadda ....

At the very most, your life is worth, not quite enough to end somebody elses.

So then, how did you not judge your worth? .......
You say you don't judge life but yet you do when the oppurtunity arises.
























And I hope the spaces are annoying for you also.

oDoUoSoKo
04-03-2010, 12:44 AM
they are^^ that was the idea..eloels..

the trouble im having is that u ventured into territory that didnt need touching...again

in its most basic display...my point

i dont feel the need to take someone elses life to protect my own because i dont feel that MYY (AS IN ME..DUSK) life in particular means anything more than the person attacking me (or w/e)...the point i was making about lives being important in general...stands. idk the persons situation.

now


this is what ive been saying all along..and if anyone BESIDES rollo thinks i havent..please say so.

Rollo
04-03-2010, 12:50 AM
they are^^ that was the idea..eloels..

the trouble im having is that u ventured into territory that didnt need touching...again

I think it needs to be brought up and mocked. It's stupid, contradictary and should die.
You should move on to something not quite so obsolete.

Of course, as I keep telling you, you don't need to reply...




in its most basic display...my point

i dont feel the need to take someone elses life to protect my own because i dont feel that MYY (AS IN ME..DUSK) life in particular means anything


Well then, you think it's worthless.
Thanks for agreeing with me.


If it's not worth protecting, it's not worth having, it's not worth anything.
See, you can admit it, it's not hard.

diggy
04-03-2010, 01:14 AM
THis thread is pure comedy.

oDoUoSoKo
04-03-2010, 10:33 AM
elaborate^ cuz i agree