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View Full Version : what is the future of european capitalism


DUMBO
05-06-2010, 06:34 AM
shit is real people. Greece, Portugal, Spain, France, UK, Italy, Latvia, Ireland, Iceland, etc. These are not especially important markets for US exports but would definitely affect other countries in the region - Turkey and Poland would be fucked, for example.

what, therefore, is going to happen? not to be alarmist but if unemployment rates reach upwards of 20% (such as in Spain), history shows that the state may topple under popular movements from the Left or Right. history also shows that money is not free and with a regional currency, even temporary monetary policy (printing more notes), is impossible outside of the UK.

this will be a very important moment in our understanding of the impact of globalization. if the country re-enters a global recession or even depression after the moderate albeit highly contraversial stimulus undertaken in the last two years, will there be a larger sustained attempt to save capitalism - or will decades of supply-side propaganda lead us into the abyss?

Huggasaurus Sex
05-06-2010, 06:58 AM
the euro will be replaced by dick lint and everyone will be millionaires

TSA
05-06-2010, 07:54 AM
good subject, i wish i understood it better.
i dont think recent events are permanent but in the future there will be more restrictions of credit based growth will be better monitored and patrolled. I think the era of the keysian 'artificial wealth' is coming to a screeching halt, which is bound to rearrange the world order because the whole west is basically based on economic steroids and are realizing that they're not pulling pussy anymore out of being buff cause word got out they have a clit themed roid dick and ghostface killah/cher voice

DUMBO
05-06-2010, 08:02 AM
good subject, i wish i understood it better.
i dont think recent events are permanent but in the future there will be more restrictions of credit based growth will be better monitored and patrolled. I think the era of the keysian 'artificial wealth' is coming to a screeching halt, which is bound to rearrange the world order because the whole west is basically based on economic steroids and are realizing that they're not pulling pussy anymore out of being buff cause word got out they have a clit themed roid dick and ghostface killah/cher voice

yeah, and what will happen when China and Japan cut the juice? who would have thought that state debt would be the greatest risk to capitalism? ironically, this state debt which is seen by market fundamentalists as socialist tendencies was caused by unsustainable financing, subsidizing and profiteering of private wealth by tax transfer from the middle classes. the bill is now due and no one is willing to admit they made the purchase.

unfortunately the short term intelligence of western democracy will leave the blame on the shoulders of those currently in power rather than decades of declining corporate tax rates, and increasing gov't transfer to corporations to maintain profits whatever the fiscal result (ie. burgeoning debt).

this is not a good look.

TSA
05-06-2010, 08:20 AM
plus the new nuclear bomb is buying debt and waiting for countries that use such systems to survive to start wobbling and providing them with so much more debt that they need your sperm to survive.

the chinese are using this method to solidify a standing in the world as are several asian and arab countries. i believe the west as debted it's self powerless.
they'll never cut off the jooce cause it's making them rich though so that fear is unrealistic, but its the fact that they wont cut it off that's the scary thing.

Edgar Erebus
05-06-2010, 08:32 AM
Why do you even care bout Europe? Shit's been COMPLETELY irrelevant for seventy years now.

HANZO
05-06-2010, 08:39 AM
shit is real people. Greece, Portugal, Spain, France, UK, Italy, Latvia, Ireland, Iceland, etc. These are not especially important markets for US exports but would definitely affect other countries in the region - Turkey and Poland would be fucked, for example.

what, therefore, is going to happen? not to be alarmist but if unemployment rates reach upwards of 20% (such as in Spain), history shows that the state may topple under popular movements from the Left or Right. history also shows that money is not free and with a regional currency, even temporary monetary policy (printing more notes), is impossible outside of the UK.

this will be a very important moment in our understanding of the impact of globalization. if the country re-enters a global recession or even depression after the moderate albeit highly contraversial stimulus undertaken in the last two years, will there be a larger sustained attempt to save capitalism - or will decades of supply-side propaganda lead us into the abyss?

well first Turkey and Poland wont be fucked. well not Turkey anyway because its not a european country, (and hopefully will never be). plus Turkey has the fastest growth rate in the region. So it wouldnt be effected that much, infact Turkey would boost the EU economy massively if it joined. ppl think otherwise cause of the preconceptions they have of Turkey being a poor country (far from that), just last week the boss of HSBC said Turkey is part of the E7 (emerging 7) and in 5 years time the world economy will depend on the activity and policies of the E7 instead of the G8.

If you notice something about the countries fucking up its all the Meditarranean nations. Greece has been given billions by the EU for years, infact economically Greece should have never been allowed to join the EU. they were not up to EU standards, but they still let them in. the past decade Greece has been lying about its borrowing and making it out that their budget deficit was under 3%. when infact it was double that and went up to 13%. Also Greece has one of the highest defence budgets in Europe, they have been overspending on military equipment for years, a country of 11million should not be spending 5% of their GDP on defence.

so they lied and kept borrowing then it reached levels where the banks clocked on and said Greece's ability to pay back its dept was highly unlikely.

Portugal and Ireland have been doing the same and soon will end up like Greece.

Spain is also in a similar position and it being a much bigger economy than the others will never a big bailout to save them.

Then next it will be Italy and the UK.

the only stable economies in Europe are France and Germany due to the massive industries they have.

all this is because of the irresponsibility of EU countries and EU banks. the countries lied about their finances, and overspent on everything.

It all falls on the shoulders of Germany and France now to fix out the other EU nations. Even trouble in a small country like Greece will hurt the US badly. EU stocks dropped badly yesterday and today, that automatically makes US stocks drop to. if the other countries also need a bailout there might be a situation where countries like the US and China buy up EU debt to save the EU, hence themselves.

remember the eurozone is the biggest economy in the world, $16trillion. if that crumbles all other economies will go down to.

DUMBO
05-06-2010, 08:51 AM
well first Turkey and Poland wont be fucked. well not Turkey anyway because its not a european country, (and hopefully will never be). plus Turkey has the fastest growth rate in the region. So it wouldnt be effected that much, infact Turkey would boost the EU economy massively if it joined. ppl think otherwise cause of the preconceptions they have of Turkey being a poor country (far from that), just last week the boss of HSBC said Turkey is part of the E7 (emerging 7) and in 5 years time the world economy will depend on the activity and policies of the E7 instead of the G8.

If you notice something about the countries fucking up its all the Meditarranean nations. Greece has been given billions by the EU for years, infact economically Greece should have never been allowed to join the EU. they were not up to EU standards, but they still let them in. the past decade Greece has been lying about its borrowing and making it out that their budget deficit was under 3%. when infact it was double that and went up to 13%. Also Greece has one of the highest defence budgets in Europe, they have been overspending on military equipment for years, a country of 11million should not be spending 5% of their GDP on defence.

so they lied and kept borrowing then it reached levels where the banks clocked on and said Greece's ability to pay back its dept was highly unlikely.

Portugal and Ireland have been doing the same and soon will end up like Greece.

Spain is also in a similar position and it being a much bigger economy than the others will never a big bailout to save them.

Then next it will be Italy and the UK.

the only stable economies in Europe are France and Germany due to the massive industries they have.

all this is because of the irresponsibility of EU countries and EU banks. the countries lied about their finances, and overspent on everything.

It all falls on the shoulders of Germany and France now to fix out the other EU nations. Even trouble in a small country like Greece will hurt the US badly. EU stocks dropped badly yesterday and today, that automatically makes US stocks drop to. if the other countries also need a bailout there might be a situation where countries like the US and China buy up EU debt to save the EU, hence themselves.

remember the eurozone is the biggest economy in the world, $16trillion. if that crumbles all other economies will go down to.

Turkey's growth is based on European demand - if European economies go into a depression, Turkey will shit itself. This was my point also for Poland. These economies have grown because of their geographic proximity to large economies with strong and relatively valuable demand. Turkey and Poland cannot simply switch their exports to North America.

Also, I don't agree that France has a strong enough economy or fiscal situation to finance a regional recovery. All eyes are on Germany - and as seen with the Greek case, Germany has deep reservations about being the hero - though it will likely have to try.

HANZO
05-06-2010, 09:47 AM
Turkey's growth is based on European demand - if European economies go into a depression, Turkey will shit itself. This was my point also for Poland. These economies have grown because of their geographic proximity to large economies with strong and relatively valuable demand. Turkey and Poland cannot simply switch their exports to North America.

Also, I don't agree that France has a strong enough economy or fiscal situation to finance a regional recovery. All eyes are on Germany - and as seen with the Greek case, Germany has deep reservations about being the hero - though it will likely have to try.

Turkeys biggest trade partner is Russia, Turkey isnt entirely dependant on the eurozone economies, Poland might be. Poland cant trade much with the middle east or central asia but Turkey can and it does. thats the difference.

the Germans will have to bailout the Greeks, the only problem then is when the others (Portugal, Ireland and Spain) reach the same situation as Greece they are going to have to bail them out to. 120billion Euros to bailout Greece which is a 300billion Euro economy. how much is it gonna take to bailout the trillion euro economy Spain has??

Europe is fucked from that perspective, the Germans are gonna bailout everyone and everyone gonna be owing the Germans alot of money. i mean in reality its not really a bailout, its a longterm loan with the addition of "you do what we tell you". thats why the Greeks are sooo pissed, they know from now on they wont be retiring at 50 and getting a 30k a year pension.

the Germans will have total control of the Greek economy now, and soon the Irish, Portuguese and Spanish economies to.

in a weird way they are conquering Europe without the need of any Blitzkrieg action.

PALEFORCE
05-06-2010, 09:55 AM
we are seeing the biggest looting of the world ever in history.

the gap between the wealthy and the common man is almost irreversible.

just like it was planned

DUMBO
05-06-2010, 10:21 AM
Turkeys biggest trade partner is Russia, Turkey isnt entirely dependant on the eurozone economies, Poland might be. Poland cant trade much with the middle east or central asia but Turkey can and it does. thats the difference.

the Germans will have to bailout the Greeks, the only problem then is when the others (Portugal, Ireland and Spain) reach the same situation as Greece they are going to have to bail them out to. 120billion Euros to bailout Greece which is a 300billion Euro economy. how much is it gonna take to bailout the trillion euro economy Spain has??

Europe is fucked from that perspective, the Germans are gonna bailout everyone and everyone gonna be owing the Germans alot of money. i mean in reality its not really a bailout, its a longterm loan with the addition of "you do what we tell you". thats why the Greeks are sooo pissed, they know from now on they wont be retiring at 50 and getting a 30k a year pension.

the Germans will have total control of the Greek economy now, and soon the Irish, Portuguese and Spanish economies to.

in a weird way they are conquering Europe without the need of any Blitzkrieg action.


And who is Russia's biggest trading partner, Turkey? This is my point about globalization. Even those 2 degrees away from the mess will be effected if Germany is unsuccessful propping up the failing economies. And how can Germany not fail in the long run? This loans will only postpone the evitable default of some of the world's biggest capitalist economies.

PALEFORCE
05-06-2010, 01:55 PM
NWO gon git ya