Truth: Paganism is the answer [Archive] - Wu-Tang Corp.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-09-2010, 08:39 PM

ok so ive read alot of the bible...namely most of reveelaations and alot of the books in the beginning (genesis etc)... now i don't know if this has been posted before but! it is obvious that "god" implys the existence of other supreme deitys other theen himself...

for example in the bible god created earth...and that's it no solar systems,sun, and etc.

Also one of the ten commandments implys there are more then one god he also eludes to them in the second comandment maybe implying that there are other unknown entitys on earth that are not god-like but not human either...

1“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.2“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children (http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/the-ten-commandments.html#) to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

now some christians may say by no other gods before him he means no materialistic things such as gold,silver or sex or w/e...but this is only one interpretation and judging from the second commandment is not correect...

he also says not only in heaven are the gods but they are also in the earth beneath and in the waters underneath the earth..and he says you shall not bow down to THEM which implies there are atleaast 3 of them..so god and satan are not alone...ALso i believe atheists to be stupid for the simple quote of "the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he didnt exist"...

i think that gods are not the ONLY entitys either demons,angels among other things aliens and such for it is stupid to think we are the only living things..period..

there is much more unanswereed that i am truly pondering and trying to build more faacts upon this but it seems substantial (feel free t comee in and prove me right/wrong also)...there is much more i havee but im still working on it...and also why i think science can't be completely relied on either...

MY LATEST THOUGHT IS THE GOLDEN CALF

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Praying too a golden bull!
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i think the progression from a calf to a bull symbolizes moloch's progression into a ridiculously powerful being...ALSO notice how in the second video they dance and sing around the bull as they did in the ten commandments..weird right?

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HMMM??

all of this vid is good but for my point skip to like 4:23
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i'm pretty sure the giant owl and the giant bull are interchangeable because molech is represented by both.. i'm sure someone has better knowledge on this then me i'm just starting to expand my third eye and realizing the blatant truth and lies that have been set infront of us...

so with this knowledge i'm thinking that molech might be a third god that was BASHED in the bible i assume he would be evil because they sacrifice children and such to him for financial good...

and also realize how in the bible god basically says if your rich it's pretty impossible to get into heaven this i think is due to a rivalry with molech...the devil is not god-like from what i have gathered but maybe it's just because he is portrayed that way in the bible...the devil i believe is A god...but THEE god, allah, or yahweh is definetly the most powerful or so it may seem at the moment

thoughts? help me build

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-09-2010, 10:05 PM

The Israelites worshiped the Golden Calf when they came out of Kamit. Or maybe more accurately the Israelite worship of the Golden Calf came out of Kamit.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_vaticano/vatican35_13.jpg
HET HERU

I agree that the Bible is in no way Monotheistic.

There are also different meanings of the word "god".

The Kamitic Neteru (gods) were born of an understanding that the universe has its foundation in Law and that this Law is comes into existence through the interdependency of certain forces. They established a science that enabled them to utilize these forces to their (individually and collectively) advantage.

I also believe that it's possible that misuse of this science has happened by various beings (intergalactic, inter-dimensional etc.) and that because the means to tap into these forces requires things like prayer, devotion, meditation on, sacrifice, chanting etc. these beings tricked people into making them think that they were either the embodiment of one of or a number of these forces or that they were worthy of being called "god" themselves. The collective power of conscious thought is far beyond what most understand. Our focus as a people, as guardians of this planet is very important going forward. We have worshiped false gods for to long and the results speak for themselves.

I also believe that the ALL, manifests itself in part through one being as a beacon as such that we call the Supreme Being. Although it seems that exactly who and what this Supreme Being is has not been properly understood for a long time.

In the end no one or thing is above the ALL. All exists within the ALL. In the mind of the ONE.

HETEPU

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-09-2010, 10:17 PM

i see what your trying to say certain beings manipulate the forces in attempt to become stronger or gain control right?

BUT there is no one god that is supreme it is the ALL (which as i understand is the collection of everything) and it selects a being sort of like an avatar of sorts that it controls to bring the message...sort of like jesus?

so there ARE multiple "deitys" lets call them that are more powerful then humans but not as powerful as the ALL...

so when you say these beings utilize the forces to their advantage wouldnt that mean they would use differant parts of this law to create something differant...and the differant creation would determine the god/deity's alignment?

sort f like how zeus is related to lightening or how they have the gods of war, peace, differant elemnts etc..

so it would seem the gods are a representation of differant forces in our universe? yes?

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-09-2010, 10:24 PM

The Golden Calf is one of the oldest symbols of humanity. Look at almost any important pagan god and he's linked to the bull. It's a symbol of virility and masculinity.

In that example they were worshiping Baal instead of Elohim. Which roughly equates to worshiping Zeus rather then the more Primordial Cronus. The original Jews were a sub sect of the existing Mediterranean pantheon who only saw Cronus as worthy of worship. Cronus was the original man or sorts. Before Cronus the Gods were natural concepts not beings. Cronus was born of Earth and Sky and made in the image of man. With his divine sickle he tamed nature. Look into Greek mythology far enough and you will see that Cronus is the God of the Israelites. He's jealous and obsessed with his own power. He was brought low by his son Zeus (God).

The whole point of Jewish "Monotheism" is that only Elohim is worthy of worship, because the other Gods are his descendants. "Satan" is Cernunnos, the horned god. Another symbol of the sacred forests which the Greeks call Pan. Another symbol of masculinity, he is literally horny. Thunder wielding Zeus or Fierce striking Lugh or whatever you fancy. Pick your name, there are hundreds to choose from. Odin with his magic spear and his blood brother Loki (who is linked to wild fires) are Zeus and Prometheus (fire bringer) or if you like Hermes (Zeus' companion). Freya, Athena, or Virgin Mary. Zeus often travels in the guise of a man, not unlike Jesus. Odin his other name in northern places hung himself from a tree for nine days in sacrifice. Was Jesus not too suspended from a tree? Jesus? Dyeus? Jupiter? What better name for the man to go by? Twelve Apostles, Twelve Olymians.

"Do not have any other gods before me."

Not "Do not worship other gods." He says put me first, because I am Supreme among them.

Note how in your example he says he will not only damn you, he'll damn your sons, grandsons and great grandsons, because you don't fuck with him. This is the God who devoured his children to protect his throne.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-09-2010, 10:37 PM

hmmm i see what you are saying and tht sort of makes sense but if chronus is more powerful then zeus. poseidon and hades etc...how do you think zeus manageed to take him down? do you think that's related to the idea of "if god is all powerful why doesnt he fix the oil crisis etc?" ...

also do you believe the owl god and he calf are interchangeable representations of molech?

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-09-2010, 10:37 PM

Interesting Boarz, that seems to be a more accurate interpretation given that Het Heru is a cow and represents femininity and creative power.

Given that it is now becoming more popular thought that the Israelites never had an exodus out of Kamit (at least not on the scale that it is in the Bible) and that they assimilated with the Canaanites not conquered them, it fits better that their Golden Calf is Baal.

Regarding the worship of Elohim, isn't Elohim plural? How can Elohim be spoken of as "him" or "his" and how can the other gods be "his" descendants?

HETEPU

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-09-2010, 10:42 PM

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-09-2010, 10:48 PM

i thought the eloheim were more then one god as golden falcon said...and if it is true what you said about the all...then it is monotheistic but in a way polytheistic...hmmm

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-09-2010, 10:54 PM

then it is monotheistic but in a way polytheistic...hmmm

:yes:

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-09-2010, 10:54 PM

Regarding a question you posed to Boarz, as I said before nothing is above the ALL. One being maybe in itself more powerful than another but if it uses it's power for selfish gain than those who fight it and use their power in harmony with the underlying Law put in place by the indwelling intelligence then they will be given "Spiritual Power" effectively the Universe will have their backs.

Good always overcomes Evil.

HETEPU

but good and evil is based on opinions...hitler saw nothing wrong with what he was doing did he? ... i think that you are right but it has nothing to do with good and evil but it has everything to do with what the differant deity's want/believe should happen and then whovers collective power is stronger wins...like i said before i think gods are a representation of these forces in the form of a deity that come together to form the all... and when the balance is questiones or tampered with the gods try and even it out...but does this mean in differant dimensions/fabrics of reality there are differant gods and a differant ALL?

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-09-2010, 11:00 PM

Moloch is a form of sacrifice, not a God. Moloch is a burning ritual to the Bull. Look in the Iliad, they kill and burn children for their sacrifices.

El is singular God. Elohim is Gods. Lingual slip. They claim to address their God in the plural anyhow seeing as how he's the only God...

In Norse mythology, Odin, Vi, Villi slew the monstrous Jotunn Ymir (In India Yama, again the original man.) The power of the Trinity united always triumphs over the one. Right, it's Good vs Evil.

Look at Zeus' roles and tell me Jesus wasn't acting as Zeus:

Zeus was king of the Gods and addressed as most supreme beings as "The All Father" because he created (or ordered the creation of) mankind. King of Kings. The God of hospitality. Who breaks the bread? Zeus. Who keeps the Oaths? Zeus. Who makes sure that merchants are not cheating people? Zeus. Sounds a lot like Jesus in Jerusalem. He is wrapped in a sacred shroud? The Aegis? He was the child of the Biblical God, "The Son." Rhea has to hide Zeus because Cronus is planning to kill all the offspring. Sounds like... Jesus hiding from Herod. But Zeus always wins, because he's got his shit together.

Even the "Gods" are not the highest beings. They are still subject to fate like the rest of us. That's the true force in the universe. It was all laid out when existence emerged from nothingness.

There are Gods and Titans, the Hindus call them Devas and Asuras. Some people around the world worship one, some the other, they are opposed, but neither are truly good or evil. They're fickle and all too human. In the Bible the Gods made us "in their image" which isn't just physical, it's mental. We think like Gods, because we are like them. But we do not have their power or their knowledge and we should talk ourselves into thinking we do.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-09-2010, 11:11 PM

"Even the "Gods" are not the highest beings. They are still subject to fate like the rest of us"

EXACTLY! and like u said zeus = jesus i mean even the names are similar! mexicaan parents name their kids Heyzeus after jesus and the name has zeus in it...i agree with alot of what ur saying...

but i don't agree on the good vs. evil again i think it's all opinions..remember history is written by the winner (actually that really has nothing to do with my point lol)...we assume it's "good" because that's how its portrayed and how it's "supposed" to be...think about it literally and good and evil are just opinions ...i think racism is evil and a racist thinks its alright ..is he wrong? i mean scientifically he is but morally? no he's not because it's all opinion...

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-09-2010, 11:31 PM

I think we make a big deal about racism. Why can't it just be he foolishly convinced himself he's mad at black people instead of people in general? That I don't get. I think by combating anything we breed it. When we outlaw a "hate crime" are we saying it's only okay to slay men of your own skin color, culture, or religion? I blame it all on Progressivism. They do one thing and call those who speak out on it the thing they're doing because it's unpopular and explain how what they're doing is different.

Like the Progressives planned to wipe out the black race and poor people through "birth control", but when the conservatives called them out on it they claim that the conservatives were racist (which they probably were, but pot kettle black much?)

The "adversary" is very powerful right now in the world. Call him Satan or Loki or Mara (Buddhism) the problem remains the same, people are being wicked. It just doesn't make sense to give one man the authority over 330 million. Obama could be great, I don't think he is, but his job is illogical. Sure he's not the only man in power, but there are (i'm estimating) about a thousand people who pretty much decide where the country is going. 1,000 governing 330 million doesn't make sense, especially when those 1000 people have such a disconnect from their constituents. You can call them the Illuminati, but that's just a deflection from the fact our congress have no right to rule. I think we need to go back to tribal structure. It's ridiculous otherwise. How can you govern when you don't know the people you're governing. A chief of a couple hundred people who he's directly responsible for makes a lot more sense. When shit is bigger then that unit, then councils can be made and arguments made and everyone can leave unhappy the way it's supposed to be.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-09-2010, 11:54 PM

then instead of gang wars we'll have tribal wars the world has aalwaays been fucked up and aalways will be all we can do istry and make it as better as we can...i do think the media has more influence on people though which is a problem..and idt it should be the medias fault when horrorcore fans kill a girl and her whole family...there always has to be someone to blame rather then focusing on the problem (wow @ thread de-rail)

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-10-2010, 12:13 AM

I don't think war is the problem. It's about individualism. If I'm mad and you're mad we should be able to fight, be it to the death, first blood, or until one of us says no thank you. So I don't think police or soldiers telling us what we can and can't do make sense. Our warriors should be everyone. We're humans, when we aren't fighting each other we're doing things that hurt the earth.

The problem is we have this degree of imaginary civility, but we won't ever eliminate the barbarian qualities. We can live in nice houses with fancy cars and have our computers and girls with fake tits, and everything can seem so well, but back a man into a wall and he'll gouge your eyes out. It's living a lie. We're barbarians. It's not our technology that makes us human, it our values and our virtues. Our codes of conduct, our legends, the flesh and blood of our cultures.

That's our freedom. But we've become so enamored with civilization when civility should be about respect, courage, and generosity not about cars and planes and broadband tv.

prof zooruka

07-10-2010, 12:13 AM

When God Almighty says you shall have no other gods before me, he doesn`t mean there are other gods besides himself and he is in a competition for worship with them... There is no other God besides the God of israel, so when he says you shall have no other gods besides me, he mean`s that man should not take anything or any teaching or practice besides the one he gives, and worship it as god in his place...the bible even says that back in the day, pagans who thought they where worshipping god where actually sacrificing there sons and daughters to demons.

1 cor 10:20 - "No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

secondly....

When God says you should not make any graven images, it`s because he doesn`t want anything to be used to represent him, unless he gives it, (which he did when he sent jesus who is God in the flesh) so in saying this, he is condeming any kind of worship which involves any sort of imagery that man has thought up as wicked and not worship of him at all, but is really worship of some demonic entity which is behind the idea of the imagery...eg.. the golden calf, statues ect....

peace be with you !

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-10-2010, 12:24 AM

When God Almighty says you shall have no other gods before me, he doesn`t mean there are other gods besides himself and he is in a competition for worship with them... There is no other God besides the God of israel, so when he says that he mean`s that man should not take anything for god in his place...the bible even says that back in the day, pagans who thought they where worshipping god where actually sacrificing there sons and daughters to demons.

1 cor 10:20 - "No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

secondly....

When God says you should not make any graven images, it`s because he doesn`t want anything to be used to represent him, unless he gives it, (which he did when he sent jesus who is God in the flesh) so in saying this, he is condeming any kind of worship which involves any sort of imagery that man has thought up as wicked and not worship of him at all but some demonic entity which is behind the idea of the imagery...eg.. the golden calf, statues ect....

peace be with you !

As told to you by... a writing called "The Book"? Some author that was.

You are just saying what people told you though. What it says is pretty obvious. What you're saying is the excuse for it. But it's not the whole truth.

Do you even know what Daimon means? It means spirit. It's from the same word as Deity. It means a lesser God or the spirit of a demigod after death. Emphasis on God... By the true definition, Jesus after resurrection was a Demon. THATS WHAT A DEMON IS. So when you pray to Jesus you're praying to a Demon. Which is fine. But recognize.

All El is saying is that we should only sacrifice to him. Why? Because that's what gets the Gods off. They may eat ambrosia and drink nectar, but they still crave sacrifice and El is nothing special among the Elohim.

prof zooruka

07-10-2010, 12:37 AM

Jesus after resurrection was a Demon. THATS WHAT A DEMON IS. So when you pray to Jesus you're praying to a Demon. Which is fine. But recognize.

lol

Jesus is no demon...he is God almighty in the flesh....always has and always will be.

Also

The reason God uses the word gods is not because these entities or idols are some what gods, it`s because man has been corrupted and has the ability to make anything into god...whether that be there favorite celebrity, money, any other idea of God, other than the God of christianity and judaism, the golden calf, basically anything man can possible imagine and bow down and worship can become god to them... This is what God condemns.

That`s why he says gods.

peace be with you !

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-10-2010, 12:46 AM

lol

Jesus is no demon...he is God almighty in the flesh....always has and always will be.

Also

The reason God uses the word gods is not because these entities or idols are some what gods, it`s because man has been corrupted and has the ability to make anything into god...whether that be there favorite celebrity, money, any other idea of God, other than the God of christianity and judaism, the golden calf, basically anything man can possible imagine and bow down and worship... This is what god condemns.

That`s why he says gods.

peace be with you !

No he says Gods because the Hebrews (ie the people the book was addressing) lived in a time when people worshipped multiple Gods. So he speaks with the Authority of all the Gods. He is Elohim. He created man in "Our own image." God is plural and not because of the Trinity.

The "Trinity" is just a corruption of a billion different pagan trinities that can mean whatever you want. 3 is a magic number. The God, The Virgin, and The Son. That's your trinity. Or is it Father, Son, and a "Holy Spirit". Or is it Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades, or is it Odin, Vi, Villi the three Kings of Kings? Artemis, Athena and Hestia the three virgins? Hephaestus, Apollo, and Ares or Thor, Balder, and Tyr the three Sons? Odin, Frey, and Tyr? The Three Lords? The 3 Fates? The 3 witches? The 3 Wise Men? The 3 Blind Mice? 3x3 is 9, the holiest number of the Norse. But 3x3 is just 3 trinities of 3 gods is it not?

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 12:48 AM

...your god's a bit of an attention whore, hey Zook?

HETEPU

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-10-2010, 12:56 AM

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-10-2010, 01:08 AM

Other then the aids and the warlords, Africa's not a bad place. But those warlords are the police over here so it's all the same. Its not that I'm paranoid and afraid of the police doing shit, but it's the idea. Like realistically, I shouldn't have to pull over for the president because of a blue light, let alone some jackass who just passed the exam.

Our founders gave us the second amendment which assured us our arms, but the government wants to take the away in the name of order. But the thing is I'm less scared of getting shot if everyone had a gun then if the only people with guns were the police. Thomas Jefferson specifically mentions this stuff in one of his books. He quotes an Italian social philosopher who says that taking arms from the people only helps criminals who would find a way to get them anyway. Thomas Jefferson also advocated the threat of a revolution every so often to keep your officials in line. Jefferson was pretty much cultured anarchist who compromised his freedoms for the realities of a government albeit a weak one that should be more afraid of it's people then the other way around.

It's as if Freedom from tyranny doesn't matter anymore. I guess I'm a bit of an Anarchist, but still. It seems like no one cares about anything that matters. I'd say anymore, but I don't know if people ever did. All I want is a place to live that people can't just take away, food to eat, something to sip on, and like minded people to surround myself with. Basic Life Liberty Pursuit of Happiness stuff.

Look in the ghetto communities. The no snitching thing (I don't just mean the rule through fear gang aspect). That's not saying that people won't be punished for misdeeds, it's that we'll deal with our own, stay out of it. The reason the gangster image is so desirable, is because it's so primal and while I think it's a perversion of the real tribal culture we hunger for it's still something. Men are trying to reconnect with their warrior image. At least in a mental sense. Like if you got beef with someone, you should deal with it like a man. If you're mad because someone screwed you, you don't call the police, you call him out and you confront him. If he wants to fight you mano et mano then that's fine. If he wants his guys vs your guys that's fine too. But that's the warrior spirit that burns in the hearts of men. You look at relationships, and these rich guys have a number of girls at once? Why because in the old days important people had numerous wives, concubines, and mistresses.

Nothing changes. Its just that civilization has put a veneer over everything.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-10-2010, 01:17 AM

yea im saying christians are some of the most hard headed people ever..

prof zooruka

07-10-2010, 01:23 AM

...your god's a bit of an attention whore, hey Zook?

HETEPU

No he`s not.

You need to think about it like this, imagine you have a wife, you love her with all your heart, yet any man who comes along, the wife you love goes and flirts and sleeps with him, even while you are present....would you not be jealous, and angry ?????

This is the anger that God feels when we take other things for God over him.

That is the reason God says those thing and says he is a jealous God, it`s not attention seeking, it`s because he is the only God and he alone is the only one who loves us, and wants us to be faithful to him, like a husband wants his wife to be faithful.

peace be with you !

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-10-2010, 01:25 AM

Other then the aids and the warlords, Africa's not a bad place. But those warlords are the police over here so it's all the same. Its not that I'm paranoid and afraid of the police doing shit, but it's the idea. Like realistically, I shouldn't have to pull over for the president because of a blue light, let alone some jackass who just passed the exam.

Our founders gave us the second amendment which assured us our arms, but the government wants to take the away in the name of order. But the thing is I'm less scared of getting shot if everyone had a gun then if the only people with guns were the police. Thomas Jefferson specifically mentions this stuff in one of his books. He quotes an Italian social philosopher who says that taking arms from the people only helps criminals who would find a way to get them anyway. Thomas Jefferson also advocated the threat of a revolution every so often to keep your officials in line. Jefferson was pretty much cultured anarchist who compromised his freedoms for the realities of a government albeit a weak one that should be more afraid of it's people then the other way around.

It's as if Freedom from tyranny doesn't matter anymore. I guess I'm a bit of an Anarchist, but still. It seems like no one cares about anything that matters. I'd say anymore, but I don't know if people ever did. All I want is a place to live that people can't just take away, food to eat, something to sip on, and like minded people to surround myself with. Basic Life Liberty Pursuit of Happiness stuff.

yea i know what yoou mean and i agree with every single thing you posted...it's becausee people want it to happen but they don't want to be the first to do it know what i mean? theey're aafraid no1 will follow and they'll get killd or arrested or there jst plain lazy...im all for an all out riot i need some new sshorts nd im broke lmfh

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-10-2010, 01:34 AM

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-10-2010, 01:53 AM

No, I'd be a little bummed out, then I'd ask her if she still wanted me or the other guy, or if she wanted a looser relationship... I'm not going to explode because the flock strays from the shepherd. While I'd like my wife to be faithful I wouldn't tell her to be, I'd hope she is and assume that's enough. I'm not going to threaten her.

Your example doesn't even fit. What your example should be is "If your wife was cheating on you with an imaginary boyfriend would that make you threaten to kill her if she doesn't knock it off?"

exactly what i waas thinking he just disproved himself lol

prof zooruka

07-10-2010, 05:27 AM

I'm not going to explode because the flock strays from the shepherd.

God did not explode either...we as humans forsaked him, for which we deserved to be eternally punished and condemed to hell, and even though he repeatedly warned us that our actions where wrong, he still did not condem us to hell, but still remained faithful to us and through the death of his son Jesus Christ, gave us a way to avoid that punishment and at the same time he reconciled us back to himself...if that is not true love I don`t know what is....I don`t know many people who after someone has dishonored them, would still go to such extrodinary lengths to help the person who did the dishonoring...but yet that is exactly what God did.

While I'd like my wife to be faithful I wouldn't tell her to be, I'd hope she is and assume that's enough. I'm not going to threaten her.

8O

So you are telling me you would not demand of your wife that she honor you and your marriage and remain faithful ... ??????? but just hope she would ???? Man I don`t know what to say to that ?????

As far as threatening her, God did not threaten us, but rather gave us fair warning about what not to do...and that was for our benefit not his, God don`t need us, we need him...and like I said, even after we messed up he still bailed us out of the mess that we got ourselves into....Thats our God ...pure love till the end.

All PRAISES TO GOD ALMIGHTY AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.

peace be with you !

Mumm Ra

07-10-2010, 07:58 AM

No he`s not.

You need to think about it like this, imagine you have a wife, you love her with all your heart, yet any man who comes along, the wife you love goes and flirts and sleeps with him, even while you are present....would you not be jealous, and angry ?????
not ideally - id leave her and move on with the knowledge that she wasn't for me
and btw
love = giving while seeking nothing in return (you will find love expressed in nature through this definition also)
any other definition is a fleeting one
desire does not = love
you are suppose to love your neighbor - does that mean have feelings for him that you would for a spouse? obviously not
also by that definition - your god does not love his creation if he is jealous and/ or seeks worship from us

This is the anger that God feels when we take other things for God over him.
god has anger towards his beloved? :no:

I don`t know many people who after someone has dishonored them, would still go to such extrodinary lengths to help the person who did the dishonoring...but yet that is exactly what God did.
isn't this what every christian is called to do??
what's that saying about knowing a tree by the fruit it bears again?

So you are telling me you would not demand of your wife that she honor you and your marriage and remain faithful ... ??????? but just hope she would ???? Man I don`t know what to say to that ?????

if you have to DEMAND something like that - there is no love there
there is no mutual understanding
there is no trust

would you expect the woman to demand that you be faithful to her? or is that only the woman's job to be faithful?

if there is love, trust, knowledge and understanding in the relationship - which there SHOULD be in order to marry someone -
you will not be relying on HOPE
you will be relying on what you KNOW
when there is a lack of love, trust, knowledge and understanding -
that's when you get BELIEFs in god, and FAITH in what you don't know, DOUBTS, and HOPE

you believe in god right? to believe in something is to admit you don't know, and i know damn well you've never met god or jesus
so in other words you HOPE what you believe is right, right? and you think hope is ridiculous, right?
hmmmmmmmmmm

Mumm Ra

07-10-2010, 09:54 AM

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-10-2010, 12:35 PM

God did not explode either...we as humans forsaked him, for which we deserved to be eternally punished and condemed to hell, and even though he repeatedly warned us that our actions where wrong, he still did not condem us to hell, but still remained faithful to us and through the death of his son Jesus Christ, gave us a way to avoid that punishment and at the same time he reconciled us back to himself...if that is not true love I don`t know what is....I don`t know many people who after someone has dishonored them, would still go to such extrodinary lengths to help the person who did the dishonoring...but yet that is exactly what God did.

Why do we deserve to be punished? I'm not doubting that he can punish us in a karmic sense, emphasis on can. He is powerful, I'm not doubting that there is a supernatural sentience that people call God. But he isn't really "Loving." My Guess? The Trinity is Cronus, Zeus, and Uranus. The Almighty Father (who ruled over heaven, earth, and seas), the Loving Son (guy fucked so many women), and the Heavenly Spirit that sired the line of Gods. All elements of "The One" but each with a unique persona as human as any man. That's what The Singularity is. An amalgamation of every spirit in the universe. The One is unknowable because it is too vast. Cronus, your God is a fragment of that, albeit perhaps the greatest fragment of personality.

So you are telling me you would not demand of your wife that she honor you and your marriage and remain faithful ... ??????? but just hope she would ???? Man I don`t know what to say to that ?????

As far as threatening her, God did not threaten us, but rather gave us fair warning about what not to do...and that was for our benefit not his, God don`t need us, we need him...and like I said, even after we messed up he still bailed us out of the mess that we got ourselves into....Thats our God ...pure love till the end.

All PRAISES TO GOD ALMIGHTY AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.

peace be with you !

No, because love requires trust. I would trust that my wife wouldn't feel the need to stray, but while I'd also hope I don't feel the need to stray I accept the possibility remains for anyone. There's more to love then sex and marriage. I don't ask obedience from a partner. I would ask obedience from a child, but when they become an adult then I treat them as an equal, albeit one with less experience and success.

Biblical God specifically sets up a system where we are guaranteed to "sin", then sets up a wholly inappropriate punishment for it. Eternal Damnation? For breaking the 400+ commandments (yes, there are hundreds)? That makes sense. While the Greeks do have Tartarus, it's for a select few super dicks who managed to personally betray the Gods. Like those who personally try to screw over the Gods. Not by ignoring them, but by acknowledging them, then personally trying to fuck them over. Like Sisyphus, who was probably one of the worst people period, and he's only expected to roll a boulder up hill for eternity. Is it fun? No, it's extremely depressing because you can't succeed. But it's not having your skin lit on fire and your organs torn out and played with by perverted fucking demons.

The pagan gods at worst want you to be depressed forever. Unless you try to bang Hera. Then you get it for real and you get chained to a burning wheel for ever. But that's pretty extreme. Zeus is a dick sometimes. But you deserve it when he does something permanent. He's reasonable. Being burned requires betraying the hospitality of God and trying to rape his wife. That's pretty extreme.

And if the Gods didn't need us they wouldn't keep us around. We serve a purpose in the machine. We aren't just nothings. We're relevant to the order of things.

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-10-2010, 01:11 PM

I don't even see how you can relate to a being in a non visual format. I mean Prof, when you pray to God, what do you think about. Are you talking to a man or a glowing mist or something? I'm going to guess it's a bearded man, either old and silver haired in the case of you visualizing the father or brown haired and relatively youthful looking in the case of the son?

Because I can visualize each God and Goddess just as well as you can, does that make them any less real?

For example, Athena looks kind of like this:

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/000Images/aim/athena1001.JPG

But she has curly blond hair and grey eyes. Her helmet doesn't have a crest, her skin is pale and softly radiant, red lipped, and she's dressed in a billowing white garment that shines light out of it. She has a golden cloak that looks like it's made of leaves or scales which she drapes over her left side and holds a spear-like staff or scepter with that hand.

What does Jesus look like?

prof zooruka

07-10-2010, 05:32 PM

and to add on
even if you demand your wife be faithful you're still gonna hope she obeys your demand cuz in the end you have no control over anybody but yourself and it's unwise to think or try to do
the best you can do is be happy when you're together and be at peace with the thought or scenario of her leaving

So your saying people should live emotionally detached relationships, where you live being at peace with the thought that you are o.k with leaving your wife at anytime....How could anyone with that mind set truly say they loved there spouse. ???????

Really this line of thinking relegates a marriage to that of a business deal.

Call me old fashioned but I couldn`t live like that, it would have to be all or nothing...having said that if my wife cheated on me or walked out, then I would deal with it and wouldn`t fall apart ...but to live like you are at peace with the thought you could leave your wife at anytime, I couldn`t do...maybe thats naive but that`s how I feel...That is why If I get married I will choose extra carefully, who I make my wife.

I do agree with what you said about hope, You can demand your wife be faithful, but then like you said you can`t force her to honor you request...this is true.

peace be with you !

INF

07-10-2010, 06:14 PM

it's all about control.

now if you hold control and you have a rival that has the possibility to gain that control from you then what do you do? you tarnish their name. you get rid of the competition. so what do you tell everyone else that has no control (those under your control)? You tell them that this "rival" is evil.

bottom line , take a look around you.Look at how society is built right now. shit , look at the fact we are using the computers to have this convo. now , who gave you that? who made all this? Leaders and inventors that molded our society , that's who. What is it that guided those Leaders and inventors? Not the bible.

The bible and Christianity and religion is what should be being exposed and belittled ,not the Illuminati.

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 06:26 PM

So your saying people should live emotionally detached relationships, where you live being at peace with the thought that you are o.k with leaving your wife at anytime....How could anyone with that mind set truly say they loved there spouse. ???????

...this isn't emotional detachment. If you are at peace then you can decide for yourself what emotion to feel, instead of feeling what you have been programmed to feel (like a robot).

Really this line of thinking relegates a marriage to that of a business deal.

No it doesn't. Imagine a relationship based on a mutual trust and love (actual love which is something you give and live, not something you feel) where jealousy, envy, anger etc. don't get in the way and instead you have the time to experience joy, trust, kindness, companionship etc.

Call me old fashioned but I couldn`t live like that, it would have to be all or nothing...

All or nothing? How is it giving your all when your aggravated simply by the thought of your wife cheating on you? You are letting a the chance of a fulfilling relationship go because you can't handle thought. If you can't even handle your own thoughts then through this: Thoughts --> Emotion --> Action, you are the one causing friction in your relationship.

having said that if my wife cheated on me or walked out, then I would deal with it and wouldn`t fall apart ...but to live like you are at peace with the thought you could leave your wife at anytime, I couldn`t do...maybe thats naive but that`s how I feel...That is why If I get married I will choose extra carefully, who I make my wife.

Choose as extra careful as you want Zook, at the end of the day you have no control over another persons actions, only your own.

HETEPU

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 06:30 PM

The bible and Christianity and religion is what should be being exposed and belittled ,not the Illuminati.

Christianity and organized religion is a tool of the Illuminati (depending on who and what you believe the Illuminati to be).

HETEPU

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 06:41 PM

but good and evil is based on opinions...hitler saw nothing wrong with what he was doing did he? ... i think that you are right but it has nothing to do with good and evil but it has everything to do with what the differant deity's want/believe should happen and then whovers collective power is stronger wins...like i said before i think gods are a representation of these forces in the form of a deity that come together to form the all... and when the balance is questiones or tampered with the gods try and even it out...but does this mean in differant dimensions/fabrics of reality there are differant gods and a differant ALL?

Good and evil aren't based on opinion. We have been led to believe that they are. The Law that the Universe is founded upon is one of harmony, balance and inter-dependency. This is "good" or "right". That which is out of balance and harmony with this underlying law is therefore "evil" or "wrong". A lot of the time the right thing to do is fairly clear cut. Other times not so much. Those who strive to live a life of harmony and balance it seems are able to awaken a faculty within them that allows them to understand (to see the underlying factors in things) the Law and live righteously. It feeds itself.

Those who live the Law, as I said have the indwelling intelligence on their side, therefore they will always be collectively more powerful.

There is only one ALL. It is ALL. There is nothing else if there were it would be part of the ALL also.

They maybe different forces at work in different dimensions but ultimately as far as I can comprehend the foundation of those dimensions would still be one of balance and harmony, even if to us it didn't seem as such. There are those who believe that this Universe/dimension have no underlying Law and that it is all a lot of random chaos, so obviously it is not always easy to interpret the Law.

HETEPU

INF

07-10-2010, 06:46 PM

http://bit.ly/cF3jr1

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 06:50 PM

^
...point?

Mumm Ra

07-10-2010, 06:52 PM

^ damn
i didn't know kanye was on that ish
i want that piece like now lol where do i order

INF

07-10-2010, 07:05 PM

^
...point?

oh did that bother you?

^ damn
i didn't know kanye was on that ish
i want that piece like now lol where do i order

yeah he on this shit now.He traded his Jesus piece for this.

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 07:12 PM

oh did that bother you?

Not at all, I'm just wondering what you're implying by posting that pic if anything at all.

HETEPU

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-10-2010, 07:32 PM

good and evil are opinions....balance and unbalance are two differant things

INF

07-10-2010, 07:36 PM

Not at all, I'm just wondering what you're implying by posting that pic if anything at all.

HETEPU

what would you imagine me to imply had I been implying something?

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 08:52 PM

^
Ha...ok. It's like that. I would assume it was something to do with my choice of username and sig...If you were implying anything... :)

HETEPU

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-10-2010, 08:57 PM

kanye is on wutang-corpdotcom

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-10-2010, 09:09 PM

good and evil are opinions....balance and unbalance are two differant things

Are they?

Where do we get our morals from?

What is our notion of good and evil based upon?

"Good" Etymologically:

good (adj.) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=good) http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=good)O.E. god (with a long "o") "having the right or desirable quality," from P.Gmc. *gothaz (cf. O.N. goðr, Du. goed, Ger. gut, Goth. goþs), originally "fit, adequate, belonging together," from PIE base *ghedh- "to unite, be associated, suitable" (cf. O.C.S. godu "pleasing time," Rus. godnyi "fit, suitable," O.E. gædrian "to gather, to take up together"). Irregular comparatives (better, best) reflect a widespread pattern, cf. L. bonus, melior, optimus. The good neighbours is Scot. euphemism for "the fairies" (1580s). Good-for-nothing is from 1711. Good looking is attested from 1780 (good looks by c.1800). Good sport is from 1917; good to go is attested from 1989.

What is the reason for the foundation of balance in the Universe?

So that the Indwelling intelligence may create a universe that "fits", where the pieces "belong together" where they are "united", if it was not this way our Universe as it is would cease to be what it is.

Morality is notion that there is a right way to act. That when we form a relationship with someone or something there is blueprint for success where both the individual and the whole will benefit.

This is the Law that upholds the universe. It is a Law of balance, harmony and inter-dependency. This is were we get our notion of morality from. It dwells in and through us just as it does throughout our universe. It is only when our lower spirit assumes control of what it should not have control of that we have a good and evil based on opinion.

HETEPU

INF

07-10-2010, 09:47 PM

^
Ha...ok. It's like that. I would assume it was something to do with my choice of username and sig...If you were implying anything... :)

HETEPU

oh , you assumed I was implying something about "you".

lol

no ,it's cool man. I was just putting the picture out there.

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-11-2010, 12:19 AM

In my opinion, time and ignorance are our greatest enemy. Time is also our friend of course, but what I'm leading into is that I think we've forgotten as a species more then we still know. I mean think about it, Aristotle is a pillar of modern philosophy. The man was a genius, and all we have that survive are what amount to a bunch of transcripts of his lectures. We don't really have any of his published works let alone a magnus opus. And yet his lectures built us up that high.

Archimedes was killed in cold blood by a Roman soldier. Archimedes, a pillar of engineering.

Like Aristotle, all we really have of Plato are letters and transcripts. We don't really have his big stuff. We know from that Plato figured out that things were made of molecules... Can you imagine what his actual writings were about? His teacher Socrates was forced to commit suicide because he was controversial, but again, a genius. What do we have of him? What his students mention in their own documents. And these are the people we know about. Think about the great teachers from western europe, eastern europe, and africa? Their writing don't exist. We have Latin, Hebrew, Greek, and Chinese. That's about the only stuff that's been preserved, and at best it's spotty.

Look how much of the Bible got edited out. Did you know that in the "Gospel of Eve" it promotes the pull out method and girls swallowing semen as a sacrament among other lewd behaviors? But it got cut out by a prissy old man who didn't think that was okay. But who is he to say? Can you imagine how different our bible would be if they kept that? We only even know that because we have his writings where he complains about those two examples, it was probably an entire Christian Kama Sutra... Think about it, an entire gospel about love making... That's a lot of spank.

Homer's Illiad and Odyssey, the bedrocks of epic literature and one of the greatest poems in western literature is only 2 of eight books in the series... Ab urbe condita libri by Livy was his magnus opus, an encyclopedia of 142 books containing pretty much a compilation of Roman history and knowledge. In medieval Italy they pretty much discovered a cache of 35 copied volumes them which pretty much caused the renaissance... IE, big shit. I mean they were literally going to throw away Beowulf until J.R.R. Tolkien went "What the fuck do you think this is toilet paper?" Because apparently no one thought a fantasy story from 1000 years ago is important. I wouldn't throw away a grocery list from 1,000 years ago.

But lets go one bigger, the Bible was one of at least two books "given by God." The other was a more detailed history of the Hebrews during the whole "Canaanite Genocide" bit which mysterious disappeared...

Think about it. The libraries of Alexandria, burned. The Libraries of Baghdad throw in a river. The knowledge of Rome, abandoned and lost to history. The Greeks had fucking mechanical astronomical charts more complicated then a swiss watch... The Romans had a plant that worked as birth control... which they drove into extinction apparently... Because they didn't have copies of the Gospel of Eve to tell them that Jesus pulled out.

If we can't figure out how to protect important stuff now, it's not even a question whether we'll end up in the dark ages, or worse a nuclear Apocalypse.

INF

07-11-2010, 12:28 AM

that's why you paint it black ^

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-11-2010, 12:30 AM

...ignorance is definitely our greatest enemy.

It's all still there though, the information. Stored away in much grander library:

http://scyfilove.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Jedi_archives.jpg

:)

...seriously though, I'm talking the Akashic Records.

HETEPU

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-11-2010, 12:38 AM

Yeah, but who can actually tap into it? Not many people.

THUGNIFICENT

07-11-2010, 12:59 AM

I mean think about it, Aristotle is a pillar of modern philosophy. The man was a genius, and all we have that survive are what amount to a bunch of transcripts of his lectures. We don't really have any of his published works let alone a magnus opus. And yet his lectures built us up that high.

Like Aristotle, all we really have of Plato are letters and transcripts. We don't really have his big stuff. We know from that Plato figured out that things were made of molecules... Can you imagine what his actual writings were about? His teacher Socrates was forced to commit suicide because he was controversial, but again, a genius. What do we have of him? What his students mention in their own documents. And these are the people we know about. Think about the great teachers from western europe, eastern europe, and africa? Their writing don't exist. We have Latin, Hebrew, Greek, and Chinese. That's about the only stuff that's been preserved, and at best it's spotty.

Homer's Illiad and Odyssey, the bedrocks of epic literature and one of the greatest poems in western literature is only 2 of eight books in the series... Ab urbe condita libri by Livy was his magnus opus, an encyclopedia of 142 books containing pretty much a compilation of Roman history and knowledge. In medieval Italy they pretty much discovered a cache of 35 copied volumes them which pretty much caused the renaissance... IE, big shit. I mean they were literally going to throw away Beowulf until J.R.R. Tolkien went "What the fuck do you think this is toilet paper?" Because apparently no one thought a fantasy story from 1000 years ago is important. I wouldn't throw away a grocery list from 1,000 years ago.

Think about it. The libraries of Alexandria, burned. The Libraries of Baghdad throw in a river. The knowledge of Rome, abandoned and lost to history. The Greeks had fucking mechanical astronomical charts more complicated then a swiss watch... The Romans had a plant that worked as birth control... which they drove into extinction apparently... Because they didn't have copies of the Gospel of Eve to tell them that Jesus pulled out.

If we can't figure out how to protect important stuff now, it's not even a question whether we'll end up in the dark ages, or worse a nuclear Apocalypse.

So would you say, then, that the human race has devolved since "ancient times?" Because earlier you averred that we're "barbarians" by nature (with the example of a guy gouging your eyes out if you put him in a situation where this is his only option). But the societies and guys you talked about in the quote clearly possessed some sort of evolved mind(s) to be able to think of such brilliant things and come up with such amazing constructions. Am I right?

So is it that we aren't, in fact, barbarians? Or is it that we're back at that level, after peaking (from an evolutionary standpoint) a couple thousand years ago, and have been going down the other side of the hill since then? Or, most likely, am I way the fuck off in my assertions, and thus wrote all this for nada?

INF

07-11-2010, 01:10 AM

"universal computer"

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-11-2010, 03:25 AM

Are they?

Where do we get our morals from?

What is our notion of good and evil based upon?

"Good" Etymologically:

What is the reason for the foundation of balance in the Universe?

So that the Indwelling intelligence may create a universe that "fits", where the pieces "belong together" where they are "united", if it was not this way our Universe as it is would cease to be what it is.

Morality is notion that there is a right way to act. That when we form a relationship with someone or something there is blueprint for success where both the individual and the whole will benefit.

This is the Law that upholds the universe. It is a Law of balance, harmony and inter-dependency. This is were we get our notion of morality from. It dwells in and through us just as it does throughout our universe. It is only when our lower spirit assumes control of what it should not have control of that we have a good and evil based on opinion.

HETEPU

ALOT of people lack morales...me for one

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-11-2010, 06:41 AM

^ you can't lack that which is the foundation of your very spirit. You just lack an understanding. Like Boarz said ignorance is our greatest enemy.

HETEPU

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-11-2010, 10:35 AM

So would you say, then, that the human race has devolved since "ancient times?" Because earlier you averred that we're "barbarians" by nature (with the example of a guy gouging your eyes out if you put him in a situation where this is his only option). But the societies and guys you talked about in the quote clearly possessed some sort of evolved mind(s) to be able to think of such brilliant things and come up with such amazing constructions. Am I right?

So is it that we aren't, in fact, barbarians? Or is it that we're back at that level, after peaking (from an evolutionary standpoint) a couple thousand years ago, and have been going down the other side of the hill since then? Or, most likely, am I way the fuck off in my assertions, and thus wrote all this for nada?

You can be a barbarian and still be a philosopher. By Barbarian I mean we're a very violent and aggressive animal. We also live easier in small patriarchal or matriarchal societies or extended family groups. That doesn't mean we can't figure out things. It's always going to come down to extended family groups in society, blood is a strong bond. Those same brilliant philosophers were often fighting as warriors. The Greeks focused on educating the mind and the body equally. Which is probably why the Latin Ludus means either school or a game.

The Ancient Greeks I think can only really compare to Imperial Germany. A nation thoroughly devoted to the arts of war, martial traditions, and decentralized patriotism. And yet look and most of the twentieth centuries greatest minds are German. So there's nothing that prevents you from being capable of both, at least as a society.

But think how lost we would be if they nuked Washington DC in a "WWIII." Library of Congress, Jeffersonian, Smithsonian, all the artworks, the white house, congress, supreme court, the countless other massive institutions, all their repositories of information... Gone.

Now imagine in 500 years after a series of lesser wars, it's pretty much impossible to find useful information from the 21st century (look how much crap we throw away, they'd find that no problem). Well it would be nice if they hadn't nuked DC wouldn't it.

INF

07-13-2010, 10:37 PM

ALOT of people lack morales...me for one

http://ttmmc.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/nuns.jpg

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-13-2010, 11:59 PM

Nuns don't make sense to me. While I don't think we need be sexually active our whole lives or even at all, I don't think its natural to rescind it for religious reasons. It never made sense to me how they were doing something special by not bearing children when the bible explicitly commands the followers of God to do so. I can see being sexually conservative, but the elimination of sex for religious reasons isn't faith, it's illogic. The bible is heavily focused on love, lovemaking, and marriage. To not accept that as one of the central subjects of religion is like an ostrich burying it's head in the sand because it's too scared to face something.

In the old religions instead of these nuns there were hierodules. Women who prostituted themselves to raise money for church and charity. It was like a female hajj. Women were expected to go to a religious site and wait for men to give a donation to the church in order to have sex with them. While obviously sexist, the idea was based on humility, because the woman must accept any sum no matter how large or small. When she was done she could count on the blessing of the Goddess. The only real shame in the operation was that ugly women had to wait quite a bit longer before they could go home...

It had it's holes to work out, but I think that's no more unusual then Christian nun-hood.

Hellspawn

07-15-2010, 05:13 AM

1“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.2“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children (http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/the-ten-commandments.html#) to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

now some christians may say by no other gods before him he means no materialistic things such as gold,silver or sex or w/e...but this is only one interpretation and judging from the second commandment is not correect...

he also says not only in heaven are the gods but they are also in the earth beneath and in the waters underneath the earth..and he says you shall not bow down to THEM which implies there are atleaast 3 of them..so god and satan are not alone...ALso i believe atheists to be stupid for the simple quote of "the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he didnt exist"...

I think God states these things in particular because of what the human mind (or the devil that whispers behind) tend to worship as these are phenomenons that they dont fully understand and see in them great powers. But God was explicit enough to state that He is the only deity outthere and the only one to worship, all the rest is false worship because you bow down to the creation (the seas, the planets, the moon, the sun... let's not speak about the carved images) instead of the creator. This message is the same for the three monotheistic religions in their essence (if we assume the bible is corrupted because some verses confirm this concept of a unique God while others -that are very controversial and easily proven wrong- deny it.). So it would be a unique God that shows humanity what to do and who to worship while other forces (the devil) from the other side try to spread confusion so people don't recognize who's their creator.

i think that gods are not the ONLY entitys either demons,angels among other things aliens and such for it is stupid to think we are the only living things..period..

there is much more unanswereed that i am truly pondering and trying to build more faacts upon this but it seems substantial (feel free t comee in and prove me right/wrong also)...there is much more i havee but im still working on it...and also why i think science can't be completely relied on either...

Some God creations are beyong science and human understanding, like demons and angels, they are entities that lives in parallel to us and have an effect on the way we see things because they have powers and abilities that we dont have.

i think the progression from a calf to a bull symbolizes moloch's progression into a ridiculously powerful being...ALSO notice how in the second video they dance and sing around the bull as they did in the ten commandments..weird right?

i'm pretty sure the giant owl and the giant bull are interchangeable because molech is represented by both.. i'm sure someone has better knowledge on this then me i'm just starting to expand my third eye and realizing the blatant truth and lies that have been set infront of us...

so with this knowledge i'm thinking that molech might be a third god that was BASHED in the bible i assume he would be evil because they sacrifice children and such to him for financial good...

The Bull is a characters that come back alot and in alot of civilisations that appearently have nothing in common, but it could be explained by the corruption of the dark forces, as maybe it could be one of his favorite attributes (I dunno...) ; Baal = the golden calf = Molech = holy cow etc... = the devil

and also realize how in the bible god basically says if your rich it's pretty impossible to get into heaven this i think is due to a rivalry with molech...the devil is not god-like from what i have gathered but maybe it's just because he is portrayed that way in the bible...the devil i believe is A god...but THEE god, allah, or yahweh is definetly the most powerful or so it may seem at the moment

thoughts? help me build

According to Islam (wich is for me the most uncorrupted religion) the devil is not a god nor the nemesis of God, he is an entity that swore to corrupt every human beign untill the judgement day, he is only existing by the will of god and is part of a great plan that will determine who's corruptible and who's not - who still believe in a unique god and who go astray and worship multiple gods - who is worthy to make it to heavens and who gon rot in flames.

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-15-2010, 10:29 AM

I think God states these things in particular because of what the human mind (or the devil that whispers behind) tend to worship as these are phenomenons that they dont fully understand and see in them great powers. But God was explicit enough to state that He is the only deity outthere and the only one to worship, all the rest is false worship because you bow down to the creation (the seas, the planets, the moon, the sun... let's not speak about the carved images) instead of the creator. This message is the same for the three monotheistic religions in their essence (if we assume the bible is corrupted because some verses confirm this concept of a unique God while others -that are very controversial and easily proven wrong- deny it.). So it would be a unique God that shows humanity what to do and who to worship while other forces (the devil) from the other side try to spread confusion so people don't recognize who's their creator.

But did God say this? For all you and me know the Jews invented their God as being singular over time for political reasons to distance themselves from the other religions. The line of "prophets" have all based "their writings" on this idea, but that doesn't mean it's true. It also doesn't mean it's not. Its perspective. Most religions have a cosmic slop (haha) that permeates everything which is interpreted as the real God. They then project numerous higher consciousnesses derived from this source of power, generally putting us near the bottom of the chain of entities. I think that the idea of one omnipotent god is unknowable an that isn't helpful. I think it's easier to look at the fragments in more human sized chunks. I mean even the Trimurti is unknowable and that's dividing god into Creator (Brahma) Preserver (Vishnu) and Destroyer(Shiva) aspects. As three people it's still omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent respectively. They still can't be dealt with they're cosmic monsters of unfathomable mind blowing power. So you break it down further until you get to lesser gods and avatars (or angels, call them what you will, they're pieces of a wider God). Krishna can be understood, because Krishna is a man. That's the Jesus angle. That man has to deal with God as a man because anything wider will leave you spontaneous combusting mentally.

Some God creations are beyong science and human understanding, like demons and angels, they are entities that lives in parallel to us and have an effect on the way we see things because they have powers and abilities that we dont have.

If you accept Angels as entities rather than fragments of Providence taking metaphysical form you believe in other Gods.

The Bull is a characters that come back alot and in alot of civilisations that appearently have nothing in common, but it could be explained by the corruption of the dark forces, as maybe it could be one of his favorite attributes (I dunno...) ; Baal = the golden calf = Molech = holy cow etc... = the devil

No I think it's that people everywhere had cows and sources of food and thus saw them as a symbolic representation of divine fertility. That's all a horned god is. It's a divine being in tune with the renewing fertility of nature.

According to Islam (wich is for me the most uncorrupted religion) the devil is not a god nor the nemesis of God, he is an entity that swore to corrupt every human beign untill the judgement day, he is only existing by the will of god and is part of a great plan that will determine who's corruptible and who's not - who still believe in a unique god and who go astray and worship multiple gods - who is worthy to make it to heavens and who gon rot in flames.

Islam is probably the most pure to the original message. That doesn't inherently make it any more accurate though. But you said for you and I respect your perspective and beliefs. But is it wrong to worship god in smaller pieces that can be understood. It's hard to deal with a split personality, let alone a universal conglomerate mentality. God is paternal and maternal, so we can understand him as male and female. God is fraternal and sororital, so we can understand him as male and female. He is creator which is hermaphroditic. He's wrathful and warlike, peaceful and loving. If you try to condense it God is unknowable, and for humans, insane. Honestly, the bible portrays an unknowable crazy being who will save at seeming random and kill without flinching. It's a troubled artist spattering paint on a canvas. I can't deal with that. That's crazy, it makes my head hurt thinking about God like that.

Hellspawn

07-16-2010, 04:26 AM

But did God say this? For all you and me know the Jews invented their God as being singular over time for political reasons to distance themselves from the other religions. The line of "prophets" have all based "their writings" on this idea, but that doesn't mean it's true. It also doesn't mean it's not. Its perspective. Most religions have a cosmic slop (haha) that permeates everything which is interpreted as the real God. They then project numerous higher consciousnesses derived from this source of power, generally putting us near the bottom of the chain of entities. I think that the idea of one omnipotent god is unknowable an that isn't helpful. I think it's easier to look at the fragments in more human sized chunks. I mean even the Trimurti is unknowable and that's dividing god into Creator (Brahma) Preserver (Vishnu) and Destroyer(Shiva) aspects. As three people it's still omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent respectively. They still can't be dealt with they're cosmic monsters of unfathomable mind blowing power. So you break it down further until you get to lesser gods and avatars (or angels, call them what you will, they're pieces of a wider God). Krishna can be understood, because Krishna is a man. That's the Jesus angle. That man has to deal with God as a man because anything wider will leave you spontaneous combusting mentally.

Well that's why it is called a belief, so you can believe or dont believe. Every one needs proofs to believe in something especially nowerdays, we almost seen and done every thing that we are soooo detached emotionnaly and spiritually/religiously. And if someone dont have the will and dont feel the need to believe in something powerful that created every thing, he will never do. If we take the example of the Quran/Bible/Torah's stories and we assume the truth resides in the monotheistic religions ; people back then saw inimaginable things and recieved indeniable proofs and alot of them did not follow their prophet :
1-Moses splitted the sea in two, the jews followed him and during the 40 days he was on the mountain to talk to his god, they started worshipping a cow.
2-Jesus relieved the sick and cured hopeless diseases as blindness etc... and even revived the dead, and alot of people didnt follow him.
3-Mohammad, an illeterate man, brought a revolutionnary book that he claimed he recieved from god that contains such miraculous words and informations we still decipher and understand untill now (the foetus in the womb, the salty and sweet waters, the movement of the planets, the formation of the clouds, the composition and the roundness of the earth, the expansion of the universe, the layers of the atmosphere, etc...) 1400 years ago.

And people still dont believe in a unique god, they prefear to believe in some entities that came from their imagination because theres a force behind all this that want to make em go astray for a reason that dont seem understandable for the non believers and obvious for those who believe.

So if you say it's perspective you have to explain more things than the opposite. Me personnaly I see more wisdom and logic in the line of the prophets and the rule beign the oneness of god with the exception beign multiple gods as a concept that derived from the first one, than multiple gods that rule the world each with his own commands and own powers wich can lead to conflict and chaos because theres much more holes to fill than in the first concept.

Anyway, it is a belief stuff and every one judge from his own perspective so unless you look at each belief seriously and deeply to find its rights and wrongs and make a synthsis, you can only rely on your heart and instinct.

If you accept Angels as entities rather than fragments of Providence taking metaphysical form you believe in other Gods.

Not necessarely, I mean it depends of the concept or the definition of the god you believe in. If anything you dont understand is a god then you have a wide list of things you can call gods but if you believe the unique god created beigns driven by his will that execute his commands then it makes sense.

No I think it's that people everywhere had cows and sources of food and thus saw them as a symbolic representation of divine fertility. That's all a horned god is. It's a divine being in tune with the renewing fertility of nature.

Some civilisations believe in snakes, cats, crocodiles, dragons, as gods, others worship the sun, the moon and the stars, others worship human beigns so it is not a rule and it is not a fertility incarnation. Maybe it's the horns like you say wich send back to the horned devil (he is painted as horned in most religions).

Islam is probably the most pure to the original message. That doesn't inherently make it any more accurate though. But you said for you and I respect your perspective and beliefs. But is it wrong to worship god in smaller pieces that can be understood.

You worship for a reason arent you ? so you better worship the right god, I see it as if you worship all these entities your "prayer" is devided and your wish/request/ask for help or guidance could hardly be exauced. It is the same if you make a complete "prayer" to each god, who told you it is the one you adress who can exauce that particular request. I mean, it sounds to me like much more logical if an absolute powerful unique god is in charge.

It's hard to deal with a split personality, let alone a universal conglomerate mentality. God is paternal and maternal, so we can understand him as male and female. God is fraternal and sororital, so we can understand him as male and female. He is creator which is hermaphroditic. He's wrathful and warlike, peaceful and loving. If you try to condense it God is unknowable, and for humans, insane.

In fact, if you can create the universe and say to thing "be!" and they be, you must be as powerful and much more, othetwise you dont deserve the title of God, so it is not insane it's on the opposite very logical.

Honestly, the bible portrays an unknowable crazy being who will save at seeming random and kill without flinching. It's a troubled artist spattering paint on a canvas. I can't deal with that. That's crazy, it makes my head hurt thinking about God like that.

A bit like Alone of the Saint Seiya Lost Canvas :)

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-16-2010, 02:53 PM

Well that's why it is called a belief, so you can believe or dont believe. Every one needs proofs to believe in something especially nowerdays, we almost seen and done every thing that we are soooo detached emotionnaly and spiritually/religiously. And if someone dont have the will and dont feel the need to believe in something powerful that created every thing, he will never do. If we take the example of the Quran/Bible/Torah's stories and we assume the truth resides in the monotheistic religions ; people back then saw inimaginable things and recieved indeniable proofs and alot of them did not follow their prophet :
1-Moses splitted the sea in two, the jews followed him and during the 40 days he was on the mountain to talk to his god, they started worshipping a cow.

|They Weren't worshiping a Cow, they were worshiping Zeus. The Calf/Bull is Zeus.|

2-Jesus relieved the sick and cured hopeless diseases as blindness etc... and even revived the dead, and alot of people didnt follow him.

|Jesus is probably a Buddha. He exhibits most of the traits of Buddha, and Buddha was an avatar of Vishnu.|

3-Mohammad, an illeterate man, brought a revolutionnary book that he claimed he recieved from god that contains such miraculous words and informations we still decipher and understand untill now (the foetus in the womb, the salty and sweet waters, the movement of the planets, the formation of the clouds, the composition and the roundness of the earth, the expansion of the universe, the layers of the atmosphere, etc...) 1400 years ago.

|All of that was well known back then, I don't know why you think people were dumb 1400 years ago. Just because we don't have every record from over a millennium ago doesn't mean they didn't know such things. The Ancients Greeks seem to have been relearning the knowledge of the then Ancient Indians who have very interesting stuff in their "mythology". The Muslims were relearning the knowledge of the Ancient Greeks. The modern scientists relearn the knowledge of the Muslims. Each generation knew less then the one (philosophically at least) then the ones before it because they were picking up the pieces lost by time.|

And people still dont believe in a unique god, they prefear to believe in some entities that came from their imagination because theres a force behind all this that want to make em go astray for a reason that dont seem understandable for the non believers and obvious for those who believe.

|Your imagination is the gift of God. God created us to be lesser creators to fill the universe. He dreamed reality into being and are dreams are dreams within his dream. So are our creations fake just because they are to us what we are to our own creator?|

So if you say it's perspective you have to explain more things than the opposite. Me personnaly I see more wisdom and logic in the line of the prophets and the rule beign the oneness of god with the exception beign multiple gods as a concept that derived from the first one, than multiple gods that rule the world each with his own commands and own powers wich can lead to conflict and chaos because theres much more holes to fill than in the first concept.

|But Athena is the same as Allah. Zeus is the same as Allah. Its like addressing someone. We call someone by a name, but we have nicknames, and we even address people by adjectives. "Hello Handsome." Zeus is derived from the same root as Devas. It just means "Shining" or "Celestial". It's just a word for God. "Vishnu" means "He who pervades everything" its just a word for "Omnipresent One." Allah is boring. It means God. That's boring. Call him handsome or something. If you're asking for favors be nice about it. ;) |

Anyway, it is a belief stuff and every one judge from his own perspective so unless you look at each belief seriously and deeply to find its rights and wrongs and make a synthsis, you can only rely on your heart and instinct.

Not necessarely, I mean it depends of the concept or the definition of the god you believe in. If anything you dont understand is a god then you have a wide list of things you can call gods but if you believe the unique god created beigns driven by his will that execute his commands then it makes sense.

Some civilisations believe in snakes, cats, crocodiles, dragons, as gods, others worship the sun, the moon and the stars, others worship human beigns so it is not a rule and it is not a fertility incarnation. Maybe it's the horns like you say wich send back to the horned devil (he is painted as horned in most religions).

|No they don't, they believe in the God having attributes of those things. If a God is cat headed it is describing God as being like a cat, perhaps playful or a hunter. If he is horse headed he is like a horse, fast, perhaps filled with mirth, you have to look into what the symbols mean because they aren't what they show, they're what they mean to the people who depict them.|

You worship for a reason arent you ? so you better worship the right god, I see it as if you worship all these entities your "prayer" is devided and your wish/request/ask for help or guidance could hardly be exauced. It is the same if you make a complete "prayer" to each god, who told you it is the one you adress who can exauce that particular request. I mean, it sounds to me like much more logical if an absolute powerful unique god is in charge.

|If I want protection for my house should I not address God as "Pallas Athene" which is The Defender of Cities. If I want someone to love me should I not appeal to Eros? God as the bringer of love? They're just nicknames for something bigger. Words have power. You can address God as Allah alone in his vastness, or the Brahman, its no different in it's meaning. But those are not personal gods, they are beyond comprehension. We too are just fragments (creations/works) of God are we not? If I ask you to pass me water aren't I asking God to pass me water? But I'm technically asking you to pass the water. So I don't address God in a universal sense, I ask you, the piece of God most suited for the task at hand. When the Catholics address Patron Saints to help them its the same idea. They are just new names for the same thing. When you as Muslim look to the Prophets or Imams it's not any different.|

In fact, if you can create the universe and say to thing "be!" and they be, you must be as powerful and much more, othetwise you dont deserve the title of God, so it is not insane it's on the opposite very logical.

A bit like Alone of the Saint Seiya Lost Canvas :)

So my point is that there is a vastness to creation beyond our understanding. Look at science. You don't ask a biologist about geology even though the two are all part of a bigger picture. If you need help understanding the animals you ask a biologist. You need help with a dog you find a specialist. You don't ask any "scientist" you ask that which is focused on what you want to know. Likewise you don't ask a war god about medicine. "God" is both. I think it's better to address it as "God The Conquerer" if you want conquest or "God The Healer" if you want healing. If you look into what the old names for pagan gods are that's all they are. They're specifics. Ares is a God of war but he is composed of numerous epithets the way humans are. He is 'The Killer of Men" "Blood Drenched" "Stormer of Walls" in his wake follow "Strife" " Terror" and "Fear". Ares isn't just a man, he's a personification of war in all it's evils. But he is a part of God, because God allows for war.

aiRship SwaBBie

07-16-2010, 03:10 PM

*thumbs up @ TheBoarzHeadBoy*

http://iareawesomeness.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/kakashi_thumbs_up.jpg

Hellspawn

07-18-2010, 01:05 PM

So my point is that there is a vastness to creation beyond our understanding. Look at science. You don't ask a biologist about geology even though the two are all part of a bigger picture. If you need help understanding the animals you ask a biologist. You need help with a dog you find a specialist. You don't ask any "scientist" you ask that which is focused on what you want to know. Likewise you don't ask a war god about medicine. "God" is both. I think it's better to address it as "God The Conquerer" if you want conquest or "God The Healer" if you want healing. If you look into what the old names for pagan gods are that's all they are. They're specifics. Ares is a God of war but he is composed of numerous epithets the way humans are. He is 'The Killer of Men" "Blood Drenched" "Stormer of Walls" in his wake follow "Strife" " Terror" and "Fear". Ares isn't just a man, he's a personification of war in all it's evils. But he is a part of God, because God allows for war.

:) I don't understand why you take the greek mythology as a reference. I see where you're goin but nobody's worshipping Zeus, Athena, Hades, Apollon etc... nowerdays.

And why worship Zeus and not Thor ?

Hellspawn

07-18-2010, 01:14 PM

*thumbs up @ TheBoarzHeadBoy*

http://iareawesomeness.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/kakashi_thumbs_up.jpg

http://www.animegalleries.net/albums/Naruto/kakashi/naruto_kakashi0210.jpg

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-18-2010, 02:05 PM

:) I don't understand why you take the greek mythology as a reference. I see where you're goin but nobody's worshipping Zeus, Athena, Hades, Apollon etc... nowerdays.

And why worship Zeus and not Thor ?

Because it's closest to the Proto-European root religion. You see, modern Hinduism and the Greco-Roman religion are derived from the same "Indo-European Religion." Celtic, Nordic, Germanic, Levantine, and Slavic religions are all further derived, but the Greco Roman is very close to the older form. We have stuff from ancient India and it was very similar to the Greek linguistically and stuff.

Pretty much every major religion on earth is derived from this source. Hinduism came from it, Greek Paganism came from it. Buddhism came from Hinduism. The Sumerian and other Mesopotamian religions came from it. Judaism came out of that. Christianity came from that. Islam from that. The Ancient Egyptians came from it. It's pretty universal.

Hellspawn

07-19-2010, 04:04 AM

Pretty much every major religion on earth is derived from this source. Hinduism came from it, Greek Paganism came from it. Buddhism came from Hinduism. The Sumerian and other Mesopotamian religions came from it. Judaism came out of that. Christianity came from that. Islam from that. The Ancient Egyptians came from it. It's pretty universal.

Sorry but I can't agree with that especially when it comes to islam (also the original message of christianity and judaism).

Islam's essence is the oneness of god and never worship nothing/noone beside Him. "There is no other god beside God." (Quran 47:19)

also the Bible states :
Exodus (20:2-3) : I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; Do not have any other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

So that multiplicity is in total contradiction with the three monotheistic religions.

As for the previous scriptures/prophets it was the same for Abraham who tried to keep his people from worshipping idols = oneness. He discovered the true god looking at the planets and trying to worship the strongest nature force but he ended realising theres a supreme power behind all this.

The same goes for Noah, David, Salomon etc... untill Adam---> oneness of God.

So for me, that multiplicity is just a corruption of the original divine message. You can consider that heres two schools of thought the one that derive from what you said (greek, roman, hinduism, sumerian etc...) that claim multiplicity and the one that claim the oneness and each person got to make his mind and follow his heart to find the truth.

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-19-2010, 05:59 AM

Because it's closest to the Proto-European root religion. You see, modern Hinduism and the Greco-Roman religion are derived from the same "Indo-European Religion." Celtic, Nordic, Germanic, Levantine, and Slavic religions are all further derived, but the Greco Roman is very close to the older form. We have stuff from ancient India and it was very similar to the Greek linguistically and stuff.

Pretty much every major religion on earth is derived from this source. Hinduism came from it, Greek Paganism came from it. Buddhism came from Hinduism. The Sumerian and other Mesopotamian religions came from it. Judaism came out of that. Christianity came from that. Islam from that. The Ancient Egyptians came from it. It's pretty universal.

Where did the "religion" of the Indus Valley come from? The one that preceded Hinduism in that area.

HETEPU

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-19-2010, 12:53 PM

Sorry but I can't agree with that especially when it comes to islam (also the original message of christianity and judaism).

Islam's essence is the oneness of god and never worship nothing/noone beside Him. "There is no other god beside God." (Quran 47:19)

also the Bible states :
Exodus (20:2-3) : I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; Do not have any other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

So that multiplicity is in total contradiction with the three monotheistic religions.

As for the previous scriptures/prophets it was the same for Abraham who tried to keep his people from worshipping idols = oneness. He discovered the true god looking at the planets and trying to worship the strongest nature force but he ended realising theres a supreme power behind all this.

The same goes for Noah, David, Salomon etc... untill Adam---> oneness of God.

So for me, that multiplicity is just a corruption of the original divine message. You can consider that heres two schools of thought the one that derive from what you said (greek, roman, hinduism, sumerian etc...) that claim multiplicity and the one that claim the oneness and each person got to make his mind and follow his heart to find the truth.

But its the other way around. The Monotheism came out of the polytheism. That means it was a philosophical change brought on by (divine?) reason (ie. Mazdaism which worships the idea of truth (Ahura Mazda) and despises the concept of deceit as the Devil, Ahriman.) But the Ahuras (Asuras) are from the same source as the Greek Titans. The Devas are from the Greek Gods. Mazdaism proposes that the Titans are right and the Gods are wrong. This is the same exact position of Judaism which says that El (Cronus) is God and that all the others are just usurpers of him.

Christianity builds on that further and incorporates new ideas out of India, but the message stays the same. However they now introduce a divine queen Mary and divine son Jesus forming the Trinity (with Mary knocked out in favor of the abstraction of God called Holy Spirit.) Later saints are added on as demigods worthy of veneration if not actual worship. Then Islam is born from this already existing set of ideas and attempts to move back towards fundamental Judaism with some twists. However the Jewish Leadership don't like the twists and all they see is some douche from Arabia took the Bible and rehashed it to make himself famous. So they send him away and Jews and Muslims have been enemies ever since.

But that doesn't get away from the point. Its simply a shift from personal gods to abstract impersonal Gods spurred by Iranian philosophy which puts Truth as God and Deceit as the Devil.

MrDiamondFDC

07-20-2010, 03:43 AM

Jesus is the only path to the Father.

Hellspawn

07-20-2010, 04:25 AM

But its the other way around. The Monotheism came out of the polytheism. That means it was a philosophical change brought on by (divine?) reason (ie. Mazdaism which worships the idea of truth (Ahura Mazda) and despises the concept of deceit as the Devil, Ahriman.) But the Ahuras (Asuras) are from the same source as the Greek Titans. The Devas are from the Greek Gods. Mazdaism proposes that the Titans are right and the Gods are wrong. This is the same exact position of Judaism which says that El (Cronus) is God and that all the others are just usurpers of him.

It may not be relevant for you but the three religions agree that Adam was the first human on earth and was Monotheist so we can consider that the origin was the monotheism (its not the egg or the chicken story :)).

What I'm speakin about was taking place waaaay before greek civilisation (The archaic period in Greece between 800 BCE and 480 BCE) because for example Moses lived around 1400 BCE so what to say about Abraham and the previous ones.

Christianity builds on that further and incorporates new ideas out of India, but the message stays the same. However they now introduce a divine queen Mary and divine son Jesus forming the Trinity (with Mary knocked out in favor of the abstraction of God called Holy Spirit.) Later saints are added on as demigods worthy of veneration if not actual worship.

I agree and this is why Islam says it is corrupted because it derived from the original message.

Then Islam is born from this already existing set of ideas and attempts to move back towards fundamental Judaism with some twists. However the Jewish Leadership don't like the twists and all they see is some douche from Arabia took the Bible and rehashed it to make himself famous. So they send him away and Jews and Muslims have been enemies ever since.

This is too simplistic but not very far from the truth, because Islam simply took it back to the roots and the oneness of god whether it was brought by Moses, Abraham or Noah.
Fake jewish leaders killed Zachariah, John and Jesus and tried to do so with every prophet that brought a message in contradiction with what they want even if he was sent for them and amongst them.

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-20-2010, 01:07 PM

But the Indo European religion is millenia old. The Ancient Sumerian were worshiping the Indo European Gods in some shape or form before the Jews were even a gleam in the eye of the Pharaoh. History is broken down into a number of ages:

The Golden Age: The Time of Cronus we know as the "Garden of Eden." Which was the time of the "Titans." The time of Atlantis etc. It was about 10,000+ years ago. It was a time of great ease for mankind and we lived for many hundreds of years.

The Silver Age: The Antediluvian age we know from the prophets. This is when Zeus overthrew Cronus and cast man out of the Garden of Eden. The line of Adam still lived for centuries but life was harder because man had to work for his keep.

----
The Bronze Age: Were great craftsmen and engineers who built with metal but they destroyed themselves with their technology through great wars.

The Heroic Age (Late Bronze): This is the great age of Human splendor. Heroes (demigods) walked the earth and battled monsters founded cities and made a mess of things. It ended in the closing years of second millenium bc. The great Moses (one of the heroes) lived in this age as did the Judges who followed him. The Phillistines they fought were led by men of the Heroic race like Goliath, and Og. The Canaanites like the Greeks were ruled by the semi divine class called Heroes by the Greeks.
-----

Iron Age: Started with the fall of Troy. The heroes were dying out thanks to their own reckless war lust and such. Eventually lesser men inherited the earth and the iron age continues to the present. Lives are short and filled with suffering compared to those of our forbears. We may however be moving into the "Clay age" but I'm not sure. I think that's what this 2012 "Fifth Sun" thing may be about. After all, aren't computer chips silicon? Can't call that metal. It's more like... ceramic. And technology is constantly leaping forward now.

Its all perspective. No ones doubting the Bible stories. Its just a matter of a wider perspective.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-20-2010, 09:15 PM

yes for all we know none of us are right...exactly like boarz said its all perspective...the way i see it is idt 2012 will be the end of the world i think something mind blowing will happen that will change EVERYTHING as we know it...i believe that they're have been not just the greys bt several differant races of aliens visiting earth...people forget the universe is endless as well as the possibilities..

an infinite amount of dimensions etc..etc..the way i see it not ALL but SOME of these "conspiracy theories" are going too be undeniable and proven true to mainstream media and the general population...i mean you can't deny the countless accounts of ufo's/alien sightings

i mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRekOqiygWM cmon man

i think people forget also that science is ALL based on theory...technically everything is and no matter how tested these theories are we probably will NEVER know for sure if these are true...i mean countless discoveries in the past have been proven wrong what makes the present any differant?

like i said the gods are a representation of the differant forces in nature...and like boarz said for example ares is a war god ,ra is the god of thee sun etc etc...no matter what u believe in youll have too agree theres something mre then humans.. thats why i believe atheists r idiots who think they're smart but are really just faggots

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-20-2010, 10:53 PM

Yeah like Hellspawn points out that "Adam" was a monotheist, and there's a 33% chance he was (33% monotheist/ 33% polytheist/ 33% Atheist/ 1% ...) However even if he was the Greek theologians wouldn't debate you, because Adam lived during the time of Cronus, and Cronus was probably the only one getting worship back then. He was the King of the Titans. Titan meaning "to stretch" as in they abused their power over the earth. That's why Zeus overthrew him and cast him into the underworld. Then Zeus divided up the world into the heavens the seas and the underworld and gave each one to his two older brothers Poseidon and Hades. Cronus had too much power.

Same story occurs in Norse Mythology. Ymir the first being is abusing his power so Odin, Ve, and Vili divided up the world. Same story in the Levant. El is fucking around, so his sons Ba'al Hadad, Yamm, and Mot throw him down and Ba'al become the lord of heaven, Yamm the lord of the seas, and Mot the lord of the underworld. And throughout, they share their power over the earth's surface and the people living there. Look in Hinduism, the Brahman (God undivided) divides into Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Past present and future. Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent. All the Gods, all the people, and animals.

They're all part of the Brahman. Brahman is the energy in the universe and it coalesces into things. Its like matter is slowed down energy. 5 Elements. Earth (solid) Water (liquid) Air (gas) Fire (Plasma) and Aether (Energy.) It's all the same shit moving at different speeds. Aether is light and shit the stuff atoms are made of, but slow it down and it will form Plasmas, slow it down and it will form gases, slow it down and it will form liquids, slow it down and it forms solids. Basic Alchemy shit. Everything is made from this energy that formed at the dawn of time billions of years ago and as it slows down it spreads out, cools down, and gravity pulls it into physical matter. Men are made of solids and liquids, stars are made of gas and plasma, but the Gods are Aether, they're Energy. Which means they're on a whole different level of shit.

Look at the shroud of Turin, when Jesus was entombed he turned into light and passed through the grave shroud leaving it undisturbed. That's why they didn't think he got grave robbed. The linens were intact but the body was gone. What happened his body damaged the fabric in a way we can't even understand forming the image of the body that lay in it.

The Angels are Ethereal, they're made of energy, Djinns are made of fire and smoke, men from the clay/dust of the earth (solids) and obviously water. That's just how I try to look at shit. God made us in his image. We rely on electricity in our bodies. That's why acupuncture works, it manipulates the "chi" energy stuff.

So when Rebel INS says show n prove the power of God's in you just get a volt meter out...

:)

Hellspawn

07-21-2010, 04:17 AM

All this is beautiful and I'm a great mythology fan but for me it still mythology not religion. Theres not a single proof of the existence of these gods and this is not overwhelming nor emotional as a religion. It is also going against the logic.
I believe in one thing :

Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD.
The Absolute GOD.
Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.
None equals Him." (Quran 112:1-4)

A universal God that posses the absolute control of the universe, He did showed us proofs of his power and He sent to us several human messengers to guide us to his path. This would be the first age.
The second age -that we livin today- and that started after the death of the last prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the greatest test. We are not lucky as the previous who saw with their own eyes the different miracles of the messengers (even alot of them did not believed or turned away) that's why it's harder for us to believe (we'll surely get rewarded according to this).

However, we have the biggest proof of the existence of a unique God and his infinite power wich is the Quran. I hardly understand how someone read it and still have doubts. Most of the occident think that Islam is a religion of violence and oppression however the same people are embracing Islam more than everyone (20000 each year in the USA). How can a violent religion be so attractive ? Simply because it is not violent and because it's the TRUTH.
It is not a mix of the ancient religions like alot of people think, it came to complete and correct the previous scriptures.
Islam as a submission to the only God explains everything people are asking themselves and guides those who are lost and sincerely seeking for the truth.
IF you look at the Quran you'll find scientific miracles that can not be doubted, how can an illeterate man that lived in the desert 1400 years ago know about the embriology (scientific facts that haven't been discovered yet at that time) ? Astronomy (the orbit of the planets/the extraterrestrial aspect of the iron) ? Geology (the salty and sweet waters that never melt -this has been confirmed by Cousteau lately-) ? the 7 layers of the atmosphere/the sky made a dome to reflect rays ? the fecundating winds ? etc... etc...

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-21-2010, 09:23 AM

Of course it's not a religion. Neither is a good chunk of the Bible and Koran. The Religion is in the services, not in the stories. Noah is the same as Deucalion. Adam and Eve are the same as Askr ok Embla (Ash and Elm). Its all mythology. Moses coming out of Egypt is not unique. There have been countless migrations led by bold men through history. It's what you make of it. Jesus is not very different from Krishna and is Mohammad that different from Buddha? It's all part of a greater mythology. Mythology is where you come from. True or not its all we really have of a time we can't remember. You can look for pieces of pottery from 3000+ years ago and you're welcome to, or you can look to the ancient texts. And while they differ on details, they're pretty universal about a number of events.

There was a time when people lived a lot longer and in better health which was considered a time when the Gods lived with men. Then God went away and left us to fend for ourselves and we did okay, but we kept fucking things up for ourselves until here we are ten thousand years later having no idea what really happened.

There's evidence for ancient nuclear wars, large parts of the earth getting flooded in aftermath of the last Ice Age, and people all over the world with pretty remarkably similar myths. Its either just human nature or partially true. I lean on the latter. I'm just not satisfied that the Bible is the best narrative. It's heavily biased towards a narrow perspective not shared by the majority of ancient peoples. Either the Jewish tradition was caused by direct intervention by gods... er God, which is fully possible, or we're looking at the wrong tradition.

Anything you can find in the bible you'll find in other holy texts. Maybe not verbatim, but in some form. The bible says so itself. "Theres no thing new under the sun."

Urban_Journalz

07-21-2010, 10:39 AM

It's amazing how much time and energy people put into trying to prove a point instead of actually living the most important lessons of said beliefs so everyone, no matter what doctrine, could actually, maybe, for once more, live in peace. The truth is evident, most of you +)'s are just fond of arguing.

Hellspawn

07-24-2010, 03:46 AM

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-24-2010, 04:24 PM

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-24-2010, 06:43 PM

Pray as much as you sin and you'll be alright.

{:(

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-24-2010, 07:59 PM

religion = belief.... anything you believe and practice is a religion imo...

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-24-2010, 09:44 PM

{:(

What's wrong with that? Sin a little, do some good, break even. We're only human, I don't need to be perfect. You know, smack a bitch then apologize.

Catholic Shit ;)

I don't know why people try to be so good. That shit's hard, that shit's righteous. But so is being bad that shit's ruthless. Since I can't do either well I'll be chilling in between with mankind.

It's like the song, I smoke I drank I'm supposed to stop but I can't. We may as well just burn out and die. Dionysus shit. Shit was hip hop way before hip hop.

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-25-2010, 02:03 AM

We're only human

Are we? I'm surprised that with all your expertise on mythology you haven't come to the realization of the underlying truth within it. Although you seem to be more focused on the Greek mythology so that's probably the reason. How is it that the Greco Roman comes so close to the "older form" yet falls so far short in providing the original truth that is the foundation of these "myths"?

HETEPU

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-25-2010, 10:22 AM

But my point is that the Gods are as weak as we are. I deduce that you're talking about Aliens which I disagree with. Whatever these things are/were they're beyond little men coming down from the sky. I think we should look the other way around. The thing we call "aliens" are spirits not monsters from another world. They're indigenous.

However I'm willing to now concede to Hellspawn that the Muslim Djinn are undeniably the same as the Greek Daemons. I've read more about them and it's clear to me that they are one and the same whatever that means. However seeing as they're not evil spirits, I don't see what the problem is in respecting them. Seeing as the Greek Gods did not claim to be creators this is probably harmless.

So lets look at it this way. There is a primal mover who acts. The primal mover set in place the universe and has guided it's evolution into what exists now. He created the Djinn from "smokeless fire" which seems similar to "Aether" which is what the Greek Gods are made of (which I theorize to be electricity or related to it). Djinn can subsist off of bones, which is mentioned as how Thor eats, from the flesh he conjures from the bones of animals. The Greek Gods only wanted Bones and Fat as sacrifice leaving the meats and entrails for the humans to eat. The shape shifting comes as a similarity also.

So at the very least the Djinn are the same as the various minor god-lings and such and possibly the most powerful Ifrits are godlike. Not in "The God" way but in the same way that a superhero is godlike. Its like how people always feel watched. Probably because something is there. The Romans had shrines in their homes to make offerings to the household spirits. Why? Because if they're mad you get poltergeists, if they're not pleased you get that ill feeling of being watched, and if you make them happy things work out better. I think Ghosts are Djinn taking the form of men who died to communicate with us or show us what happened. There are doubtlessly millions of them.

WARPATH

07-25-2010, 12:11 PM

Big dick indian status

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-25-2010, 08:21 PM

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-25-2010, 09:57 PM

I deduce that you're talking about Aliens

:nonono:

Mumm Ra

07-25-2010, 10:01 PM

i know i'm no human

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-25-2010, 11:42 PM

:nonono:

Then what were you suggesting? That men are the children of the Gods? Or their masters? Or something?

Because I was expecting the Nibiru Sumerian crap...

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-26-2010, 01:34 AM

kind of but not rly off topic but can sum1 explain the "lizard alien myth" ?

Hellspawn

07-26-2010, 04:32 AM

Most relevant post til now :)

But my point is that the Gods are as weak as we are. I deduce that you're talking about Aliens which I disagree with. Whatever these things are/were they're beyond little men coming down from the sky. I think we should look the other way around. The thing we call "aliens" are spirits not monsters from another world. They're indigenous.

However I'm willing to now concede to Hellspawn that the Muslim Djinn are undeniably the same as the Greek Daemons. I've read more about them and it's clear to me that they are one and the same whatever that means. However seeing as they're not evil spirits, I don't see what the problem is in respecting them. Seeing as the Greek Gods did not claim to be creators this is probably harmless.

The Quran claims that the Jinns are the first creatures that lived on earth, at first they werent really good or bad but they have free will like us (contrary to the angels) and they gone astray and most of them were corrupted at the end except a few. That's why they were chased away to a parallel dimension but can communicate with us and vice versa. When God decided to create human beign, the angels feared that they turn the same way that the Jinns.

"And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a successor, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know". Quran 2:31

However some of them were righteous.

Say, "I was inspired that a group of jinns listened, then said, `We have heard a wonderful Quran. It guides to righteousness, and we have believed in it; we will never set up any idols beside our Lord. The Most High is our only Lord. He never had a mate, nor a son. It is the foolish among us (Iblis ; the Devil) who used to utter such nonsense about GOD.
We thought that neither the humans, nor the jinns, could possibly utter lies about GOD. Human beings used to seek power through jinn beings, but they only afflicted them with a lot of adversity." Quran 72:1-6

The Devil or Ibliss was the most righteous of these Jinns, he was so righteous amongst creatures that were corrupted that he was rewarded by God and took place with the angels in the sky and had a high rank amongst them. When he refused to bow down to Adam, the first human beign, he was chased from there and asked God to let him live untill the day of judgement and swore to corrupt all humans, God accepted his request (it was obviously part of the divine plan) and this Ibliss became the king of the Jinns, however they are mortal and he's immortal (untill the 1st blow of the horn and the death of every creature downhere). He uses his army of jinns to corrupt human beigns by embellish their bad deeds and make them forget their lord ---> paganism and idolatry.

"The angels fell prostrate; all of them,
except Iblis (Satan). He refused to be with the prostrators.
He said, "O Iblis (Satan), why are you not with the prostrators?"
He said, "I am not to prostrate before a human being, whom You created from aged mud, like the potter's clay."
He said, "Therefore, you must get out; you are banished.
You have incurred My condemnation until the Day of Judgment."
He said, "My Lord, respite me until the day they are resurrected."
He said, "You are respited.
Until the specified day and time."
He said, "My Lord, since You have willed that I go astray, I will surely entice them on earth; I will send them all astray.
Except those among Your worshipers who are devoted absolutely to You alone."
He said, "This is a law that is inviolable.
You have no power over My servants. You only have power over the strayers who follow you.
And Hell awaits them all.
It will have seven gates. Each gate will get a specific share of them." " Quran 15:30-44

So lets look at it this way. There is a primal mover who acts. The primal mover set in place the universe and has guided it's evolution into what exists now. He created the Djinn from "smokeless fire" which seems similar to "Aether" which is what the Greek Gods are made of (which I theorize to be electricity or related to it). Djinn can subsist off of bones, which is mentioned as how Thor eats, from the flesh he conjures from the bones of animals. The Greek Gods only wanted Bones and Fat as sacrifice leaving the meats and entrails for the humans to eat. The shape shifting comes as a similarity also.

So at the very least the Djinn are the same as the various minor god-lings and such and possibly the most powerful Ifrits are godlike. Not in "The God" way but in the same way that a superhero is godlike. Its like how people always feel watched. Probably because something is there. The Romans had shrines in their homes to make offerings to the household spirits. Why? Because if they're mad you get poltergeists, if they're not pleased you get that ill feeling of being watched, and if you make them happy things work out better.

That what we simply call or see as Magic or Satanism ; pleasing the jinns to get wealth for example or fame. It's like worshipping them in a way.

"They shall say: Glory be to Thee! Thou art our Guardian, not they; nay! they worshipped the jinn; most of them were believers in them." Quran 34:42

I think Ghosts are Djinn taking the form of men who died to communicate with us or show us what happened. There are doubtlessly millions of them.

Or any living beign through possession. They surely have powers we don't possess.

Hellspawn

07-26-2010, 04:35 AM

Obviously the Bible is corrupted. There are tons of texts they cut out due to being "profane" or "immoral" because they were too extreme for the people. The Bible was a much more liberal document then we have now. The Qu'ran is just Old Testament 2.0 in my opinion (I haven't read all of it, just little pieces, so I can't really pick it apart) and tries to downplay the Christian story instead of clearing up mistakes and shit.

I think humans need to walk the middle path rather then abstaining from sin and being solely virtuous. That's unrealistic. Moderation is the golden path. Get fucked up, bang a girl you don't even know, no harm to foul, no one's going to hell for that. But if you're killing family members and shit something's wrong and there's going to be punishment. So don't feel too bad about doing shit that's fun, but don't do stuff that's seriously fucked up. Pray as much as you sin and you'll be alright. Christianity lays out this unrealistic ideal and Islam is too conservative and shit.

We need to accept that we have no control of our births or deaths and shit but that we still control our lives. Providence divined the beginning and the end but it's our path to walk, however in a cosmic sense it was going to happen the way it will on it's own. But one thing is certain, life is beyond good and evil. There is right and wrong and then there is what determines right and wrong. You can lie for a good reason even if lying is "wrong". If you lie to save a life isn't that a good thing?" That's why there cannot be pure good and evil. God is not all good and the devil is not all bad. There is a lot of grey and very little white or black.

Regarding your claim :

I think humans need to walk the middle path rather then abstaining from sin and being solely virtuous. That's unrealistic. Moderation is the golden path.

"We thus made you a moderate community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful." (Quran 2:144)

However "Get fucked up, bang a girl you don't even know, no harm to foul, no one's going to hell for that."

This is not moderation, this is excess. You bang a girl you don't know, she gets pregnant you dont give a fuck about the child and it's another lost soul on earth, where's the responsability ? I know you would tell me condoms and shit but it exists. This happened before and could happend again. I see what you mean but that was a bad example :)

Islam is too conservative and shit

compared to the doctrine : Do what you want ! it is, but in a logical way of thinking it isn't. To take your example again ; Islam permitted sexual intercouse (even for religious people =/= catholic priests) but in a legal way, within the frame of marriage. You can marry untill 4 wives (this is not excess this is restriction, people used to marry way more before) but you have to take your responsibility with the feeding, the children etc...
It seems to me more logical and senseful than bang whoever you want and get out. I dunno... maybe I am conservative :)

WARPATH

07-30-2010, 11:39 PM

You're native American, what's your religious views of the Great Spirit and lesser spirits or whatever your people call them. I know they have a great god and lesser gods but how do they fit into this debate?

That's a misconception really. I don't know if any Native Americans worship Plural gods. There's God/Allah/Great Spirit (Whatever you call him), there's creation (the directions, sun, stars, earth, moon, thunder) then there are the spirits/angels which are part of the same creation... and then there's the circle of evil spirits, but I never hear much about that. Then their are ghosts. I guess you can say there's a hierarchy but we don't worship them, just one God. Each of them play their role in how things work here on earth.

I haven't been following the debate.

Face of the Golden Falcon

07-31-2010, 12:10 AM

Then what were you suggesting? That men are the children of the Gods? Or their masters? Or something?

Because I was expecting the Nibiru Sumerian crap...

...to me "god" is our word. It has been given a definition and is loaded with all sorts of preconceived ideas that it is unfair to use it as a label for anything and everything we come across from ancient and unfamiliar cultures.

A "god" has become many things.

As far as what I was suggesting. The underlying truth within mythology. Some mythology. Obviously it's not all structured upon the same truth and were conceived by varying cultures with different degrees of this truth.

Man is God.

What this means is dependent on your definition of what God is though.

Our true self is a consciousness that is one.

This consciousness is the same consciousness within all. The "gods", inter-dimensional beings, extraterrestrial beings, animals, plants even a rock has a level of the same consciousness.

This is what I believe mythology is eluding to. Some of it.

HETEPU

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-31-2010, 01:56 AM

Regarding your claim :

"We thus made you a moderate community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful." (Quran 2:144)

However

This is not moderation, this is excess. You bang a girl you don't know, she gets pregnant you dont give a fuck about the child and it's another lost soul on earth, where's the responsability ? I know you would tell me condoms and shit but it exists. This happened before and could happend again. I see what you mean but that was a bad example :)

compared to the doctrine : Do what you want ! it is, but in a logical way of thinking it isn't. To take your example again ; Islam permitted sexual intercouse (even for religious people =/= catholic priests) but in a legal way, within the frame of marriage. You can marry untill 4 wives (this is not excess this is restriction, people used to marry way more before) but you have to take your responsibility with the feeding, the children etc...
It seems to me more logical and senseful than bang whoever you want and get out. I dunno... maybe I am conservative :)

I see what you're saying. I'm not saying we should just fuck around and not give a fuck about anything, nihilism is a foolish philosophy, I'm just saying we should take pleasure in living. If I got a girl pregnant I would give a shit. I see those teenage pregnant girls on mtv and shit and it makes me want to beat the shit out of those fucks who get a girl pregnant (which I think is neither their fault or hers) then totally fail to support her. Honestly Islam is a better religion than Christianity, I won't knock it. I'm a conservative but I'm my own breed of conservative. I'm just not uptight or anything but I respect shit.

I'm not really opposed to Islam, I haven't really looked into it, but I find Judaism to be full of bad messages and Christianity to be a mess. Islam being 3.0 makes it hard to swallow with those two as its predecessors. But unfortunately Islam came out of the middle east instead of somewhere a little less... crazy. I mean the shit that happens in Arabia and Iran and shit boggles my mind. I know its not Islam, but its unfortunate how things have turned since the days of the Caliph and whatnot.

I mean you look at religions and they're all fucked up. I don't even know what the point of Buddhism is. Their goal is to essentially stop feeling and kill their humanity and soul. Everyone's like 'Buddhists are pacifists and shit" and I'm like yeah because they don't give a shit about living or dying. At least a crazy "Jihadi" or whatever is planning on a heaven to go to. Their heaven is the state of mind of not giving a fuck. I feel like they're selling themselves short... if you want a state of mind to be your heaven at least have it be like ecstasy or something, come on.

Mythology polytheism and stuff has problems too. But its more human and I can look at it as a parable. Its like Apollo and Daphne. That's a great human story about unrequited love gone wrong. Its sad. Eros as an agent of fate shoots Apollo with a love arrow and Daphne with an arrow of loathing and when he confronts her to tell her how he feels she reviled him in turn and on top of that wanted to remain virgin and sacred but he couldn't stop loving her so her continued pursuing her until she in desperation turned into a tree. Even then he couldn't stop loving her and he cared after her as a tree.

That's a great story. He made her an evergreen with his magic so that her beauty would never fade. Thats why the Laurel goes to the winner of a contest, because she was sacred to Apollo. Plus stuff like Hillman and Carl Jung's brilliant use of the Gods as personality types. Apollo being an intellectual who has trouble because he's awkward thanks to his unintended coldness with other people. Apollo is the brilliant mind who is alone because he is socially retarded. Everyone knows someone like that.

You don't get stuff like that in the Bible. I feel like you should. It should teach about how to be human so that everyone can relate to it rather then focusing on God. Yeah the big guy in the sky is important, but we need to know how to live not a list of what not to do. Now more then ever as society continues to go down the gutter.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-31-2010, 02:22 AM

claassic fred thank you young god snow for sparking so much thought

WE LOVE YOU <3

STYLE

07-31-2010, 07:04 AM

we need to know how to live not a list of what not to do. Now more then ever as society continues to go down the gutter.

read the metu neter. if christianity is algebra and islam is geometry, then ausarianism is the entire HS math curriculum from basic math to calculus.

STYLE

07-31-2010, 07:16 AM

kind of but not rly off topic but can sum1 explain the "lizard alien myth" ?
according to many ancient texts, reptilian aliens influenced human history and culture. from native american to chinese to african history there are many references to snake gods. even the bible has the snake in the garden.

if it wasn't for a meteor we might have evolved from the dinos, making us lizard people.

according to the Tera Papers, a story about galactic history that goes back a few 100 million years, there are humanoid races that evolved from dogs horses birds and reptiles. we are from primates.

david icke can tell you all about how reptiles are currently running shit on earth.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

07-31-2010, 08:33 AM

according to many ancient texts, reptilian aliens influenced human history and culture. from native american to chinese to african history there are many references to snake gods. even the bible has the snake in the garden.

if it wasn't for a meteor we might have evolved from the dinos, making us lizard people.

according to the Tera Papers, a story about galactic history that goes back a few 100 million years, there are humanoid races that evolved from dogs horses birds and reptiles. we are from primates.

david icke can tell you all about how reptiles are currently running shit on earth.

i figured thats what it was and ive often thought about humans evolving from oter things too glad to see i wasnt the only one who thought that...also heard summin like the dinos went to outerspace or summin idk?

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-31-2010, 09:24 AM

I don't know why Ausar Auset is the religion, those weren't really primary Egyptian Gods...

Plus Egyptians weren't really an African civilization, they were Semitic. Not just their language, and similarities to the Sumerians and such, but look at their depictions they're not black skinned, they're red skinned, like the Phoenicians. That's what Phoenician means, red (well, purple, but really its a cool shade of red) man. They were certainly multicultural and I'm sure intermarried with Africans, Europeans, and Asians alike, yet all but that's sort of like basing your religion on a blend of Buddhism and Asatru because there were golden Buddhas found in Scandinavia (the vikings were instead realllly good at that whole pirate/marauder/terrorist thing they were doing.)

TheBoarzHeadBoy

07-31-2010, 09:27 AM

i figured thats what it was and ive often thought about humans evolving from oter things too glad to see i wasnt the only one who thought that...also heard summin like the dinos went to outerspace or summin idk?

No they're dead as shit. When they return I'll reconsider. People are the hairless ape. If we weren't we wouldn't empathize with monkeys and dogs so well. As we do, we know we're similar in the mental structure, but we're just much more boss.

Regulas

07-31-2010, 11:57 AM

Mumm Ra

07-31-2010, 06:33 PM

That's what Phoenician means, red (well, purple, but really its a cool shade of red) man.
do you know what Kamau means?

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-01-2010, 12:24 AM

Quiet Warrior. It's Kenyan...

The Egyptians were not black skinned. They clearly depict foreigners as being black skinned. They call themselves black in reference to the fertile black river soil where they lived. They lived in the black lands. Thus they were black.

http://i2.digiguide.com/up/0811/1227736800-673984-Scandalso-12258082910.jpg

Look how pale she is and how he's just tan. Those are white people. They're the same exact race as the people who lived on Crete.

http://pics.livejournal.com/johanna_hypatia/pic/000255b6/s320x240

See how they show men with brownish red skin? And the women really pale (with the same style of dress designed to show off the goods)? That's because they're white. The men are outside a lot and the women stay inside more. Thus not being African.

There was at least one black dynasty and the Empire had men from all over living there I'm sure. I'm not saying blacks didn't do shit in Ancient Egypt or that they weren't a large ethnic grouping. But the people who were "Egyptian" were as white as they are in the Ten Commandments. Saying otherwise is like saying in a thousand years that the slaves in America were white. Its simply wrong.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare11/a%20Cecil%20B.%20DeMille%20The%20Ten%20Commandment s%20DVD%20Review%20Charlton%20Heston/a%20Cecil%20B.%20DeMille%20The%20Ten%20Commandment s%20DVD%20Review%20Charlton%20Heston%20PDVD_002.jp g

See, white skin when very tan is reddish brown which is exactly the color we see in Egyptian art. And remember, that is Charlton Heston, who we can all agree is clearly an Anglo European white man. (And no doubt the greatest actor in American history.)

Case rested. I'm a Doctor...

Face of the Golden Falcon

08-01-2010, 06:09 AM

^ :lmao:

...oh man. I really don't time to address the above post thoroughly, so I'll just hope that either the Fox, Regulas or Mumm Ra have sonned you by the time I log back on.

HETEPU

Mumm Ra

08-01-2010, 06:20 AM

Quiet Warrior. It's Kenyan...
nope, way off
Kamit (or Kemet) = Black Land
Kamau = Kam (Black) Au (God)

They call themselves black in reference to the fertile black river soil where they lived. They lived in the black lands. Thus they were black.
not only can't you prove your reasoning (the bold part isn't even a logical conclusion), but it wouldn't make sense for them to do so seeing as they thought themselves as gods
it wouldn't make sense for them to associate their self image with soil - it'd go against everything they strived for religiously speaking

Look how pale she is and how he's just tan. Those are white people. They're the same exact race as the people who lived on Crete.

http://pics.livejournal.com/johanna_hypatia/pic/000255b6/s320x240

i dont even know where you got that from, it obviously looks nothing like traditional kemetic art. you dont even provide what context this picture is taken from

but since you like pictures -

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs142.snc1/5255_108738831622_533261622_2363239_3047688_n.jpg
KING NEBHEPETRE MENTUHOTEP II OF KAMITE DYNASTY XI

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs122.snc1/5255_108743546622_533261622_2363318_3016536_n.jpg
KING NEBHEPETRE MENTUHOTEP II SUCKLING HET-HERU. FROM AN EXHIBIT IN BRATISLAVA, SLOVAKIA.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs147.snc3/17464_248171825333_609565333_3887860_1827768_n.jpg
Life-size Statue of King Tutankhamun, 18th Dynasty. Jet black.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs160.snc3/18763_265245733332_565428332_3511890_3886422_n.jpg
^ white?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs140.snc3/18763_265245738332_565428332_3511891_6143966_n.jpg
^ white?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs124.snc3/17163_283737933332_565428332_3577213_8066324_n.jpg
One of the artistic rules of the Ancient Kemetic bas relief artists was the use of alternating colours in case of person's touching/overlapping. This was first highlighted by African-American scholars (the Ashby's). As the colour black continually became restricted for the application of divinities (such as Ausar [Osiris] - The Great Black), red ochre, representing vitality was continually used to depicted the Kemetic peoples to differentiate them from Dieties. However, in cases of reliefs where Kemetic peoples were touching/overlapping with one another, artists would revert to the use of black for the depicting of Kemetic peoples, as opposed to 2 persons of the same colour touching. Exactly why this rule was widely adhered to is unknown, however, the ONLY other peoples depicted in such a way (ie. alternating red ochre and black) are the Kushites/Ethiopians, that is, other Africans. No other ethnic groups were depicted is such a way as this.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2091/34/67/565428332/n565428332_1419242_5127.jpg
^ does that look like white person hair & features?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs510.snc3/26815_336592183332_565428332_3748472_1493911_n.jpg
Amenhotep III

Case rested. I'm an Ausarian.......

STYLE

08-01-2010, 06:32 AM

hahahahah boarz you are so clueless.
the egyptians acknowledged the melanin molecule as the key to communing with the sun.

but look at menes, the 1st pharoah... does this look like a white man to you?
http://www.aldokkan.com/egypt/menes.jpg
what about tarhaqa? white too right?
http://newsone.com/files/2010/01/449px-SphinxOfTaharqa.jpg

the tomb of Seti I: Lybians, Nubians, Semites, Egyptians, Phonecians.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Seti.jpg

more egyptians
http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/A81.jpg
http://www.white-history.com/hwr8_files/nubs.jpeg

Mumm Ra

08-01-2010, 06:37 AM

and as a side note
it seems pretty stupid for white people to set up shop in the desert for upwards to 10k years and thus depict themselves with permanent sunburn hahahaha
i sure as hell wouldn't do it without some AC, sunscreen and a nice housing environment

STYLE

08-01-2010, 06:39 AM

^ :lmao:

...oh man. I really don't time to address the above post thoroughly, so I'll just hope that either the Fox, Regulas or Mumm Ra have sonned you by the time I log back on.

HETEPU

done deal. lol

Mumm Ra

08-01-2010, 06:42 AM

with that settled boarz should still check the metu neter, i think he'd like it.....

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-01-2010, 11:07 AM

Okay. Most of the art depicts black people. I was of the impression most of it wasn't. (That's what the education system and books which show them as being white do for ya.) I've never been to Egypt and I'm relying on books for this perspective rather then original artwork. To be honest I don't care that much about because I don't see Egypt as that special. The Pyramids and shit were there before they were anyway... ;) Egypt was a powerful and advanced civilization but so where the Romans and those I ties may have been smart but that doesn't make me think highly of them. Realistically I think every civilization blows because their people blow. Its like "ooh he invented gunpowder" and "he's still an inbred gook drinking mercury in some lame ass attempt to be immortal."

Whatever. I'm not trying to take anything from the people of Africa. There are plenty of amazing cities in Africa. I've always imagined Egypt as cosmopolitan with a Asiatic (Levant and Anatolia) majority and large populations of people from Turkey to Morocco to the Horn of Africa. If anything my concession actually hurts my opinion of Africans since I think Egypt is over rated as shit.

Off topic, what's the point of the picture they have showing the different groups. Were they showing multicultural unity (liberals) or presenting a guide of what true Egyptians look like compared to "those damn foreigners" (conservatives)?

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-01-2010, 11:15 AM

with that settled boarz should still check the metu neter, i think he'd like it.....

But the Egyptians didn't do that stuff. Thats loose attachment of a Jewish mystery cult with Egyptian names.

I'm pretty sure they thought the Gods were Gods not just archetypal stories. They built some big fucking temples when they could just have told the stories around the camp fire.

Though I'm sure you'll have some brilliant answers?

Mumm Ra

08-01-2010, 11:27 AM

just like you were "pretty sure" they were a white civilization? }:|
u say its overrated as shit yet you seem to know very little about it
im jussayin...
my answers are to learn for yourself

Mumm Ra

08-01-2010, 12:00 PM

regardless -
you're letting some weird personal egyptian beef get in the way of fox and I simply recommending a book. what you may think they believed is quite irrelevant in this context and i dunno why you keep bringing up your opinion about it
lets lie to ourselves and say they had absolutely nothing to do with the metu neter -
its still a good read and will offer perspectives im sure you've never considered regarding a lot of things - things you seem to be interested in
im jussayin of course

Frailhorse

08-01-2010, 06:58 PM

just sayong..since we talking about crete, ancient civs, and race...

where are all the blue people?

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/whitel0tus/images.jpg

Mumm Ra

08-01-2010, 08:44 PM

http://0.tqn.com/d/guitar/1/0/_/t/bb-king-lg.jpg

BTTR KNG KOOL

08-01-2010, 08:56 PM

Kemet does refer to the soil of the land. The land around Nile was and IS exactly that.. very good farm land. And everybody who knows about Good SOIL, knows that its BLACK. When the soil or even something like organic fertilizer is rich in terms of nutrients , its black. Nothing weird about that.

I cant believe someone fails to see this.

Mumm Ra

08-01-2010, 09:12 PM

nobody denied that kemet refers to the land
i dunno what you been readin

CEITEDMOFO

08-01-2010, 09:49 PM

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-03-2010, 09:09 PM

just sayong..since we talking about crete, ancient civs, and race...

where are all the blue people?

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/whitel0tus/images.jpg

Those are monkeys... You can see their tales, their grey fur, and the way they're leaping.

What are you some kind of racist. You hate black people or something.

Anyhow, when I finish reading Aristotle I'll consider glancing at that egyptian stuff. I still think its some scientology shit.

Frailhorse

08-03-2010, 09:26 PM

while your at it look up minoan art

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-03-2010, 09:50 PM

Yeah I did. They're blue-grey colored monkeys... they got them from trade with the Egyptians who kept them as pets. Like I said, the Minoans were part of the same wider civilization as the Egyptians around the time of Moses.

Regulas

08-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Anyhow, when I finish reading Aristotle I'll consider glancing at that egyptian stuff. I still think its some scientology shit.

Speaking of Aristotle...

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/woZj0NrXC0U&hl=en_GB&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/woZj0NrXC0U&hl=en_GB&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

At 2:11 an interesting discussion on Africa's contribution to intelligent design. But I'm sure you already new that...

<
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Face of the Golden Falcon

08-03-2010, 11:04 PM

But the Egyptians didn't do that stuff. Thats loose attachment of a Jewish mystery cult with Egyptian names.

Do what stuff? The arrangement of the Paut Neteru into the traditional "Tree of Life" from Cabala is to communicate the concept easier to the reader/audience. The "tree" was born from the science of the inter-relating principles underlying all creation not the other way around.

I'm pretty sure they thought the Gods were Gods not just archetypal stories. They built some big fucking temples when they could just have told the stories around the camp fire.

Pretty sure?...

They didn't think the Gods were Gods. The problem is you thought the Neteru were Gods. Neter/u is the word your labeling as God/s when you speak of the Ancient Egyptians. The Kamau (ancient Egyptians) used the word for a "divine attribute".

R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz translated Neter to mean "principle or an attribute of divinity, an aspect of God," not the whole concept itself. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/esp_egipto01.htm

That fits in pretty well with the information in the Metu Neter don't you think. Wait...you haven't read it.

...And they built big temples as a place where the science of these divine attributes could be studied and taught.

Do you think major universities should be told to shut up campus and move all students out beside a campfire for their next semester of chemistry?

HETEPU

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-03-2010, 11:58 PM

I'm not saying your wrong I just wonder where you get this stuff. We really don't know that much about them. Its like I can pick up a book by Aristotle and read it. I can't pick up a book by Tuthmose and see what was going on back then. I can get inside of Alexander the Great's head by reading in depth records of his campaigns and personal life and reading the philosophy of his teacher. I can read about George Washington in a textbook or I can read his own words and the words of people about him. But I can't get inside Akhanaten's head. All I know is he fucked his sister and had a severely disabled son named King Tut.

Its like I can't tell you anything about the Mystery Cults of Greece. I can speculate that they were conducting sex acts and debauchery as a celebration of life because they understood their own mortality. But its wild speculation. No one knows about the Orphic Cult. We know what Gods were involved (such as Dionysus, Persephone [I want to name my daughter that someday its just a pretty name] Hades, Orpheus, and some others). We know the basic idea of it being some sort of death cult.

So when if we talk about Ausar and Auset I want sources. Karnak certainly may have been a university but I want some harder evidence. Its certainly possible and would explain why the Greeks traveled there before teaching in Greece. I know Aristocles (Plato) probably went to Heliopolis. I don't remember hearing of the others studying in Egypt. I still get the wrong impression from most of this stuff. Even if the Egyptian nobility were well educated in rational thought and reason I have no reason to think Egyptians in general were any less folksy then medieval peasants. I've always seen Egypt as a scientifically and mathematically advanced nobility holding together an empire with force of arms. You know, like Rome. Both great for their time, but neither was a Utopia.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

08-04-2010, 12:16 AM

what kind of apes did humans evolve from i mean theirs differant kinds...

WARPATH

08-04-2010, 05:47 PM

what kind of apes did humans evolve from i mean theirs differant kinds...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_C4Ey7Up4FRQ/SzICsH0ealI/AAAAAAAABAQ/-cZGRu98ogo/s320/ugly-white-ape.jpg

"The First White Man- Chaz"

Sky Blue Danny Kid

08-04-2010, 06:05 PM

If all of KTL gets to make up Egyptian history based on limited facts, speculation, specious reasoning, and rose-colored glasses, yall shouldn't get mad at BHB for making shit up either.

When you start to act like your "theories"(being generous) are fact, you lose all credibility. Anybody who says "This is what the ancient Egyptians did and here is what they believed" as a statement of fact and not an opinion is full of shit.

Regulas

08-04-2010, 08:31 PM

Frailhorse

08-04-2010, 10:18 PM

fuck it

Frailhorse

08-04-2010, 10:20 PM

fuck it

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-04-2010, 10:51 PM

Y'all are ridiculous. I would be interested to see someone refute the above vids......

Well from having read part of Politics by Aristotle I can tell you right now that the Great Greek Philosophers (Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle) who were allegedly taught by the Egyptians were Fascists (as in what fascism actually means not that whole "fascist pig" thing.) So if you want to say Greeks learned from the Egyptians you have to say that the Egyptians support fascism. Or you have to admit that a student doesn't automatically speak what the teacher taught. You can't assume what he says is derived from Egyptian beliefs unless you assume that his other views were derived from Egyptian beliefs. Even so its a fools argument.

Aristotle spends the entire first chapter addressing how most people deserve nothing more then slavery because they're not capable of thinking for themselves. He of course being in the Master class because of his ability to think well. He also criticizes hereditary systems (like the Egyptian one) as being bad at picking rulers. He also felt most people being stupid didn't deserve democracy and that only Greeks were worthy of being rulers because only Greeks (Hellenes) had culture. Textbook fascism.

Sounds like someone who was well educated in a utopian black paradise? Nope. Sound like someone who objectively criticized the hereditary monarchist systems (Macedon) and democratic republican (Athens) systems he lived under? Yup.

Regulas

08-05-2010, 12:54 AM

Well from having read part of Politics by Aristotle I can tell you right now that the Great Greek Philosophers (Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle) who were allegedly taught by the Egyptians were Fascists (as in what fascism actually means not that whole "fascist pig" thing.) So if you want to say Greeks learned from the Egyptians you have to say that the Egyptians support fascism. Or you have to admit that a student doesn't automatically speak what the teacher taught. You can't assume what he says is derived from Egyptian beliefs unless you assume that his other views were derived from Egyptian beliefs. Even so its a fools argument.

Aristotle spends the entire first chapter addressing how most people deserve nothing more then slavery because they're not capable of thinking for themselves. He of course being in the Master class because of his ability to think well. He also criticizes hereditary systems (like the Egyptian one) as being bad at picking rulers. He also felt most people being stupid didn't deserve democracy and that only Greeks were worthy of being rulers because only Greeks (Hellenes) had culture. Textbook fascism.

Sounds like someone who was well educated in a utopian black paradise? Nope. Sound like someone who objectively criticized the hereditary monarchist systems (Macedon) and democratic republican (Athens) systems he lived under? Yup.

Pathetic. Attempting to have a dialogue with you is like attempting to have one with zoo. You both have books you adere(stuck) to and are incapable seeing beyond. It's not about a "black paradise", it's about evolution, race is an illusion.

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-05-2010, 01:45 AM

Its not about race its about culture. Regardless of what color the Egyptians were (I still find the black thing to be unlikely) we're talking about bullshit. We know very little about ancient Egypt as a culture. We can figure out how they lived but we can't know how they thought. We know they were farmers. We even know they slept on the roof of their houses like Snoopy. But we can't parse out sacrifice to the gods religion from philosophy based on wall carvings. We know as much about ancient Egypt as we do about cave men, except we know their names and the history they wanted people to hear. If only because we knew Greek and the Greeks knew Egyptian.

Everything we know of the western ancient world in depth is Greek and Roman because they're the only guys we have stuff on and its still only a tiny fraction of what they thought. We don't have the ancient knowledge of the druids because their culture was intentionally oral because writing makes memorizing things harder to keep straight. Their bards could memorize entire epics because they couldn't read and write and their brain wasn't cluttered. (There are a lot of cultures that were this way.)

We don't have in depth records from Africa or North or South America. We do have Chinese records but I'll be damned if I listen to a Chinaman about life. You know who was a Chinaman? Mao Zedong. And Khublai Khan...

Regulas

08-05-2010, 10:25 AM

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-05-2010, 02:37 PM

WARPATH

08-05-2010, 08:50 PM

We have that Nas song. Don't hate Boarz.

ol-DhaLY0xA

Sky Blue Danny Kid

08-05-2010, 09:01 PM

S But for you to assume that your infomation regarding eygpt constitutes as the measure for everyone else's understanding of egypt is quite arrogant/ignorant.

Truth. Everyone else in this thread is behaving in the exact same fashion.

WARPATH

08-05-2010, 09:10 PM

All I have to say about this thread is Paganism is the answer to what?

Paganism: a term people toss around to describe others that don't follow their own beliefs.

Build on that.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

08-06-2010, 04:15 AM

polytheism is the answer to religion...

Face of the Golden Falcon

08-06-2010, 04:28 AM

Not what some random black nationalist cobbled together in an attempt to connect east African cultures with west African people. Saying an African American (who are primarily of west African descent because that's where the slaves came from) is descended from the Egyptians is like saying That Russians and Spaniards are the same culture. The only real similarities will be roughly universal throughout humanity.

That's not nearly what the bulk of his work is about though. 90% of his work is about the understanding of and benefits of applying the spiritual science of the Ancient Egyptians, whether you agree with his interpretation of the ancient scriptures or not, people in this thread were simply recommending you his works because you seem like the kind of person who would benefit/enjoy his works. You seem to be hell bent on refusing to look into any of it, which is your choice don't get me wrong, but whats the real reason for that attitude? First it was because it was obscure Egyptian teachings loosely based on Jewish mysticism, now it's because he's (supposedly) trying to connect two opposing cultures or races or whatever (to be honest the last part of your post didn't make a lot of sense, Spaniards and Russians and what not).

What's the real reason?

Regardless of what can't be agreed on the fact is AMEN's works are a great read for people interested in the things you are obviously interested and hugely beneficial in day to day life.

HETEPU

WARPATH

08-06-2010, 12:03 PM

polytheism is the answer to religion...

The answer to religion isn't the same for everyone.

Ring Ring Ring....

CALLER ID: Jehovah Witnesses

"Fucking Telemarketers."
(analogy, Don't get your panties twisted)

BLACK BART SIMPSON

08-06-2010, 12:19 PM

The answer to religion isn't the same for everyone.

(analogy, Don't get your panties twisted)

yes it is people just perceive and believe differant things...but whats real is real the problem is actually finding the realness follow me yung 1 nd you'll learn the way...

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-06-2010, 10:22 PM

That's not nearly what the bulk of his work is about though. 90% of his work is about the understanding of and benefits of applying the spiritual science of the Ancient Egyptians, whether you agree with his interpretation of the ancient scriptures or not, people in this thread were simply recommending you his works because you seem like the kind of person who would benefit/enjoy his works. You seem to be hell bent on refusing to look into any of it, which is your choice don't get me wrong, but whats the real reason for that attitude? First it was because it was obscure Egyptian teachings loosely based on Jewish mysticism, now it's because he's (supposedly) trying to connect two opposing cultures or races or whatever (to be honest the last part of your post didn't make a lot of sense, Spaniards and Russians and what not).

What's the real reason?

Regardless of what can't be agreed on the fact is AMEN's works are a great read for people interested in the things you are obviously interested and hugely beneficial in day to day life.

HETEPU

No I think that stuff is interesting. But I could write the same thing about any pantheon and turn it into something else then what it was. Look, I can take Christianity and Greek Religion and come up with anything I want. I guess I have a right to as does the guy who concluded that stuff, but I don't know what good it does.

For example: You want to know who the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are? Its actually pretty obvious.

The White Horseman: Apollon the Destroyer, Lord of Plagues riding upon Zephyros the West Wind in Hebrew he is Raphael “God who Heals”

The Red Horseman: Blood Stained Ares, Lord of Battle upon Boreas the North Wind. In Hebrew: Michael “Who is Like God”

The Black Horseman: Zagreus (Dionysus) the Hunter, Lord of Good Living riding on Notos the spirit of the South Wind. In Hebrew Uriel “God is my Light”

The Pale Horseman: Hermes the Messenger, Guide of Death upon Euros the East Wind. In Hebrew he is Gabriel “The Strength of God”

But does that mean anything? Not a word. Why? Because I'm just some dude drawing lines in the sand. If you want explanations I can offer them, but I don't feel the need since I'm making a point. Also, Typhon is the Beast in revelation. The Whore of Babylon is Echidna (aka Tiamat). I can pull this shit out of my ass all day. Who knows what it means.

Regulas

08-06-2010, 10:26 PM

Can you speak or write with Hieroglyphs or Hieratic? Because I know people who can read and write in Ancient Greek and can speak it (although we aren't 100% sure on the pronunciation.)

Show me a link to a Khemet book. Written in Hieratic and English that an Egyptologist will read and say "that's what it says." Then I can read it and interpret it. Not what some random black nationalist cobbled together in an attempt to connect east African cultures with west African people. Saying an African American (who are primarily of west African descent because that's where the slaves came from) is descended from the Egyptians is like saying That Russians and Spaniards are the same culture. The only real similarities will be roughly universal throughout humanity.

More and more your agenda is taking on racist overtones. If that's what it is, why do you even ask questions when you know that the source of the answer is that of a race that you don't deem worthy to hold the "correct" answer? Race is a pretty stupid reason to choose ignorance. Do you.

As for hieroglyphs, I have already essentialy done this but that's ok, I'll hold your hand(It's all white people so it's safe):

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4bP4yfBBQA&hl=en_GB&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4bP4yfBBQA&hl=en_GB&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

But at the end of the day this is pointless. The fact of the matter is that is the ablility to see the whole picture/truly understand things is limited/ dormant within you. Also as Warpath pointed out, this isn't the point of this thread.

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-06-2010, 10:38 PM

More and more your agenda is taking on racist overtones. If that's what it is, why do you even ask questions when you know that the source of the answer is that of a race that you don't deem worthy to hold the "correct" answer? Race is a pretty stupid reason to choose ignorance. Do you.

As for hieroglyphs, I have already essentialy done this but that's ok, I'll hold your hand(It's all white people so it's safe):

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4bP4yfBBQA&hl=en_GB&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4bP4yfBBQA&hl=en_GB&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

But at the end of the day this is pointless. The fact of the matter is that is the ablility to see the whole picture/truly understand things is limited/ dormant within you. Also as Warpath pointed out, this isn't the point of this thread.

I don't have an agenda. I just think its ridiculous when people try to claim they know shit. I don't know anything. Give me a thousand years to live and I'll have a book that makes sense of everything to me but I'd be afraid to publish it because I don't want to give people ideas they should work out for themselves.

BLACK BART SIMPSON

08-07-2010, 12:55 AM

regulas is a fuckin chink DAMN COMMIES!

Regulas

08-07-2010, 10:12 AM

regulas is a fuckin chink DAMN COMMIES!

Out of curiosity, how did you reach this retarded conclusion and what is it that you think this achieves?

Truth: Idiotic thinking/communication is not the answer.

WARPATH

08-10-2010, 03:15 AM

yes it is people just perceive and believe differant things...but whats real is real the problem is actually finding the realness

The problem is people telling others whats real.

STYLE

08-11-2010, 01:27 AM

Face of the Golden Falcon

08-11-2010, 06:59 AM

No I think that stuff is interesting. But I could write the same thing about any pantheon and turn it into something else then what it was. Look, I can take Christianity and Greek Religion and come up with anything I want. I guess I have a right to as does the guy who concluded that stuff, but I don't know what good it does.

For example: You want to know who the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are? Its actually pretty obvious.

The White Horseman: Apollon the Destroyer, Lord of Plagues riding upon Zephyros the West Wind in Hebrew he is Raphael “God who Heals”

The Red Horseman: Blood Stained Ares, Lord of Battle upon Boreas the North Wind. In Hebrew: Michael “Who is Like God”

The Black Horseman: Zagreus (Dionysus) the Hunter, Lord of Good Living riding on Notos the spirit of the South Wind. In Hebrew Uriel “God is my Light”

The Pale Horseman: Hermes the Messenger, Guide of Death upon Euros the East Wind. In Hebrew he is Gabriel “The Strength of God”

But does that mean anything? Not a word. Why? Because I'm just some dude drawing lines in the sand. If you want explanations I can offer them, but I don't feel the need since I'm making a point. Also, Typhon is the Beast in revelation. The Whore of Babylon is Echidna (aka Tiamat). I can pull this shit out of my ass all day. Who knows what it means.

...but like I said the bulk of Amen's work is about applying it to your life for the benifit of your (and those around you) life. Your break down of the 4 horsemen didn't do shit for me. I gave no instruction or useful information that can be applied in day to day life, which like I said is what Amen is all about.

HETEPU

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-11-2010, 01:08 PM

boarz explanation of the 4 horsemen had very little substance to it. it was nothing more than a etymological/historical breakdown. yet he feels confident that it was sufficient in demonstrating his grasp of the subject.

i often get the feeling he's paraphrasing wiki or his western civ textbook.

i think at the end of the day he knows that he's fronting and that this is an uninvested debate for him.

*nods*

I put some substance in it. Logically a man bearing a bow that shoots plague is Apollo. One of the four Christian Archangels is known to be a healer. Apollo was a healer. If I'm associating Archangels and the Four Horsemen he's certainly Raphael. Apollo was associated with the West Wind Zephyros. The Four Winds were the four Sires of all the divine horses (the Mares are Harpies which are tempests.) I'd presume he's Thoth as a god of Divine Wisdom.

The man on the Red Horse with a sword is the harbinger of war. He's obviously an Ares figure. Michael is the chief of the Angels in their role as warriors. Its a half decent link. Then I take Boreas the North Wind. Boreas was the father of the four divine fire breathing winged horses that pulled Are's Chariot. If he had to come on a wind it would logically be Boreas. I'm not sure who he'd be in Egyptian myth. I think Horus as a warlord fits. Also Horus was married to Sekhmet-Hathor which corresponds to Ares relations with Enyo the Goddess of War and Aphrodite the Goddess of Love.

The man on the Black Horse is Zagreus. Dionysus is the God of Debauchery. However like Apollon being both a Healer and source of plague (through his associations with the serpent Python) Dionysus has good and bad sides to him. The description of Famine specifically says that wheat and barley will become scarce. However Wine and Oil, will stay unaffected. Seeing as wine is Dionysus' thing and oil would also be part of his promotion of decadence, that fits him. It could also however be Hades who was the lord of wealth and the underworld and a scale would fit him better. Through his wife Persephone he had relations to the bounty of the harvest as well as mineral wealth. There's an argument for both. I lean towards my first idea. I gave him the south wind because it was the remaining wind after I went through the others. Overall this was the hardest to put together. I went with Dionysus because all the other's are Zeus' Sons by different mothers and that made sense to me to have Dionysus. As Sabazios the Thracian horseman he resembles Odin quite a bit with a magic spear and horse as well as his beserkergangr practices. Zagreus also means the Hunter which fits Odin as the Lord of the Hunt with his wolves and tamed ravens on his eight legged horse. Odin was the chooser of the slain which might make sense in famine context. Who knows. If we want to play with Khemetic stuff he'd be Anubis.

The Pale horseman is Hermes. Hermes was a messenger. A guide for the dead. He's a psychopomp and hell following behind him fits the Christian idea of Hell coming for you rather then you going there. He resembles Gabriel in this extent. I picked Euros the east wind because it blows from east to west the way the sun goes which fits with the life and death thing. In Egyptian mythology of course Hermes is Min. The god of roads, travellers, fertility, and raging boners. Which of course was how Hermes was depicted in preclassical times.

Regulas

08-11-2010, 10:25 PM

......

Regulas

08-11-2010, 10:26 PM

I don't have an agenda. I just think its ridiculous when people try to claim they know shit. I don't know anything. Give me a thousand years to live and I'll have a book that makes sense of everything to me but I'd be afraid to publish it because I don't want to give people ideas they should work out for themselves.

Out of curiosity what are your thoughts on the vid?

Regulas

08-11-2010, 10:41 PM

*nods*

I put some substance in it. Logically a man bearing a bow that shoots plague is Apollo. One of the four Christian Archangels is known to be a healer. Apollo was a healer. If I'm associating Archangels and the Four Horsemen he's certainly Raphael. Apollo was associated with the West Wind Zephyros. The Four Winds were the four Sires of all the divine horses (the Mares are Harpies which are tempests.) I'd presume he's Thoth as a god of Divine Wisdom.

The man on the Red Horse with a sword is the harbinger of war. He's obviously an Ares figure. Michael is the chief of the Angels in their role as warriors. Its a half decent link. Then I take Boreas the North Wind. Boreas was the father of the four divine fire breathing winged horses that pulled Are's Chariot. If he had to come on a wind it would logically be Boreas. I'm not sure who he'd be in Egyptian myth. I think Horus as a warlord fits. Also Horus was married to Sekhmet-Hathor which corresponds to Ares relations with Enyo the Goddess of War and Aphrodite the Goddess of Love.

The man on the Black Horse is Zagreus. Dionysus is the God of Debauchery. However like Apollon being both a Healer and source of plague (through his associations with the serpent Python) Dionysus has good and bad sides to him. The description of Famine specifically says that wheat and barley will become scarce. However Wine and Oil, will stay unaffected. Seeing as wine is Dionysus' thing and oil would also be part of his promotion of decadence, that fits him. It could also however be Hades who was the lord of wealth and the underworld and a scale would fit him better. Through his wife Persephone he had relations to the bounty of the harvest as well as mineral wealth. There's an argument for both. I lean towards my first idea. I gave him the south wind because it was the remaining wind after I went through the others. Overall this was the hardest to put together. I went with Dionysus because all the other's are Zeus' Sons by different mothers and that made sense to me to have Dionysus. As Sabazios the Thracian horseman he resembles Odin quite a bit with a magic spear and horse as well as his beserkergangr practices. Zagreus also means the Hunter which fits Odin as the Lord of the Hunt with his wolves and tamed ravens on his eight legged horse. Odin was the chooser of the slain which might make sense in famine context. Who knows. If we want to play with Khemetic stuff he'd be Anubis.

The Pale horseman is Hermes. Hermes was a messenger. A guide for the dead. He's a psychopomp and hell following behind him fits the Christian idea of Hell coming for you rather then you going there. He resembles Gabriel in this extent. I picked Euros the east wind because it blows from east to west the way the sun goes which fits with the life and death thing. In Egyptian mythology of course Hermes is Min. The god of roads, travellers, fertility, and raging boners. Which of course was how Hermes was depicted in preclassical times.

I don't have an agenda. I just think its ridiculous when people try to claim they know shit. I don't know anything. Give me a thousand years to live and I'll have a book that makes sense of everything to me but I'd be afraid to publish it because I don't want to give people ideas they should work out for themselves.

Does this mean that you find yourself ridiculous?

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-12-2010, 12:37 PM

No, because I don't think that's right. Its enough for a fantasy story or something but its not enough to base actual ideas on.

I've changed my mind though. The Greek Gods are from the same source as the Egyptian Gods. There are variations, but the archetypes are still there. I'm starting to smell a certain island on the mid Atlantic ridge that isn't Iceland and is no longer above the surface... You know, the one with the Kingdom built by the big guy who bears the celestial spheres...

Regulas

08-12-2010, 02:35 PM

Out of curiosity what are your thoughts on the vid?

And?

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-12-2010, 06:57 PM

STYLE

08-12-2010, 08:53 PM

if you know and understand the numbers 1-12 then you have the foundation of all things between heaven and earth.

i was gonna make a thread about it. i still might on monday.

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-12-2010, 09:06 PM

Ooh monday threads.

THUGNIFICENT

08-12-2010, 10:33 PM

Modern Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years. I don't buy it that we all of a sudden started farming about 10,000 years ago. Something happened before that that set us back to square one. I think our mythology is all describing this single event. I think the "Gods" were the nobility of a significantly advanced civilization we have little to no record of during the ice age.

Word this is something I've always thought was a bit fishy. If the evolution of homo sapiens really burst along like that, in the past couple hundred years there'd definitely be clear evidence of it. (Unless you believe the evolutionary theory of punctuated equilibrium, which is definitely the only one that can account for this.)

That being said, I'm unaware of any evidence that supports this theory (correct me if I'm wrong and there's clear evidence somewhere). The evidence we have (again, that I'm conversant with) seems to correlate pretty directly to the story we've been told/taught. I think you'd need some sort of evidence that humans were so evolved before the Neolithic Age (aka the first time homo sapiens were the only race of human on the planet) that they were farming and/or advanced enough that it was possible for them to be sent "back to square one." I've never seen any evidence - if anybody has it, please show me.

1

TheBoarzHeadBoy

08-13-2010, 12:49 AM

Well there's a shelf of continent type rock thats pretty deep under the Atlantic ocean. Its roughly the shape that Atlantis was supposed to be. Plus the Egyptian Gods are supposed to have come out of the west which is associated with death. (Ausar was called the King of the West) Either because that's where the sun sets or some other reason. Atlantis was supposed to have been destroyed like 10,000 years ago. I wonder if that's why the west is associated with death.

There's also a lot of talk about Nuclear like weapons from ancient times. The bhagavad gita mentions something like them. There's lots of weird looking stuff in the ancient stories that in a modern context seems like something totally different that we would recognize.

Maybe we nuked ourselves back to the stone age? Wouldn't surprise me. We came pretty damn close in the Cold War, and the Pyramids and sphinx are supposedly pre Egyptian dating back to that 10,000 year ago mark. Maybe the Ancient pre society built them as monuments. Plus a lot of this alleged physics stuff is comparable to modern understanding of the universe. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10,000 years there was next to nothing we'd see as society, especially if they lived differently. I mean if they built their buildings from stone and bricks and wood we'd never notice because it wouldn't be recognizable anymore.

Just because we built sky scrapers doesn't mean they would have. You don't need skyscrapers to civilization. They're rather stupid structure to be honest.

Oh well, its all speculation.

THUGNIFICENT

08-13-2010, 11:18 AM

Well there's a shelf of continent type rock thats pretty deep under the Atlantic ocean. Its roughly the shape that Atlantis was supposed to be. Where'd you find out about this? I've never heard of it, and all the reading I've done has offered no evidence of any sort of continental shelf that supports the idea that the island flat-out sank. We could also get into the many reasons why the story of Atlantis itself is essentially bullshit (such as accounts by Socrates and Herodotus, the supposed Saite Calendar which is pretty easy to refute, and even the kind of writings that Plato himself wrote) but that's even more of a threadjack then what we have going right here.

Just because we built sky scrapers doesn't mean they would have. You don't need skyscrapers to civilization.
Of course not. But there's no evidence that homo sapiens were even farming before 10,000 years ago. I'm not saying that they needed cars and ipods, but I think they would've done something a bit more advanced.

As far as the nuclear stuff goes, that's something I'm still looking into, and I don't really know enough about yet to comment on.

Regulas

08-13-2010, 02:14 PM

The bald guy is doing the same thing I'm trying to do but from a different perspective. Find the singularity of all accounts and make sense of it when I get there.

I don't doubt the ancients reasoned a lot. They had thousands of years with a stable society to play around with philosophy, and metaphysics and everything. Even without technology to verify their ideas they'd most likely eventually settle on the logical rational scientific things we think/know to be fact now. Now presuming they had had modern technology then or before, say 10-12,000 years ago, and they kept records of that ancient knowledge, it would be possible for them to have real hard evidence.

Modern Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years. I don't buy it that we all of a sudden started farming about 10,000 years ago. Something happened before that that set us back to square one. I think our mythology is all describing this single event. I think the "Gods" were the nobility of a significantly advanced civilization we have little to no record of during the ice age.

But I don't think I know enough to really make any claims. I just see that in the basic fact that all the world cultural religious traditions point to a similar root. Shinto, Buddhism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Greek Paganism, Norse Paganism, Celtic Paganism, Slavic Paganism, Germanic Paganism, Mongol Paganism, Aztecs, Maya, Aboriginals, Egyptians, those Dogon, everyone has similar stories.

One of the most clear ones is god defeating a serpent. I don't know if its literal or metaphor or what but every society I know of has it.

We have the idea of certain numbers being critical. 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, 12 all show up a lot in things.

His idea is actually better now that I think of it. I like the idea its science recorded as something easier to remember.

Cool. My intention is to find some common ground from which we can move forward, uncover some facts and keep the speculation to a minimum.

The fact that that within the dogon and egyptian "myths" are accurate diagrams and heiroglyphs of sciences that we are just begining to understand alludes to the fact that they were far more advanced than they were given credit for and that we are catching up to them. With them having precise "pictures" of atoms, electrons and string theory strings perhaps their other teachings are equaly apt.

Also both men in the vid have read the Metu Neter (it can be seen over Laird's left shoulder) and it helped them not only understand the way the ancient egyptians thought, which is completly different from that of any present day society,but it also helped them evolve their thinking to a point that allowed them to see the ancient's teaching in it's proper context.

In regards to the course of history being inaccurate I completly agree their are far too many holes. I recomend watcning the entire series it definitely fills in some of the gaps. FYI my interest in egypt stems from the fact that they are the oldest civilization we are able to study that has left palpable evidence behind,plus there are so many things they have done that we cannot replicate like bowls and water pitchers-which is incomprehensible :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxmgZ968vfE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxmgZ968vfE)