Originally Posted by diggy
Look at "Muslims" now though. Something went wrong!
The problem with Islam is that it isn't a creative force. Principalities, unlike republics are imperialist and not really societies in which thought is encouraged. Theocratic principalities are even worse. The Moors who built in Spain, were more worldly and less devout to Muhammad. Like Rome, like the Huns and other Asian tribes, whether you're talking in the time of Muhammad and the arab campaigns or the Ottomans, Islam built off other civilizations which it plundered. It's not a creative force. Ask yourself, why after the battle at the gates of Vienna, did the Ottoman empire become a technological backwater, where as Western Europe thrived?
As Islam expanded, it simply took what was already done by Greeks, Zoroastrian Persians, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and Byzantine Christians and built upon it. The one positive that emerged out of this expansion and pirating, is that they brought back to Europe the knowledge that was lost after the plague and the bitter days of the dark ages.
Why I think Muslims have fallen off? Their devotion to the Qur'an and Muhammad's dogmas, fears and hatred. They've been left behind and are now "a little people" as Lawrence said.
Still stuck in a world of clan destined in fighting and power grabs by religious authorities and lords, they've gone backward. The secular revolution of the protestants was huge and the development of state craft we've seen in western society could not have happened in an Islamic state. The closest thing Islam has to that today, is Turkey. Which was starting to feel the benefit of a more secular, reasoned, less clan based system. The problem facing the Muslim brotherhood and other conservative Islamic groups, is simply that they're obsolete. When people get a taste of liberty and privilege, that ancient right of a demos, to tell it's leaders what is what isn't, doesn't die easy. It has to be crushed out right.
They're trying to have it both ways, they want progress and they want critical thinking youths to take their economies to new heights before Shale deposits and other forms of energy make their culture entirely irrelevant but they don't want to give up power. They don't want to just be private citizens like everyone else and without Muhammad and his Qur'an being held as perfect and unquestionable authority, the whole scheme just goes up in smoke.
Worse than that, being in the information age means criticisms of the prophet and his message are easily spread. The flaws of his supposed revelations as well as the Muslim sources are out in the open. They don't want reform but they're between a rock and a hard place. I don't believe in the myth of human progress but I do believe data becomes obsolete. The idea of a perfect Qur'an is obsolete and it's promoters know it. This has everything to do with keeping power on their end.
They're like Catholics, they've been lying to people, causing conflicts and butting their noses where they don't belong for so long that everyone else HATES them.
Personally, I find it all pretty damn funny.