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blackwisdom 08-15-2007 05:43 PM

Qigong
 

After watching this I gotta begin attending the class at the book store. I saw some books there that state that this art originated in KMT with complimentary meditations. I think I'll buy one of those books soon as well.

Any one practice Qigong or anything similar?

Huggasaurus Sex 08-15-2007 06:44 PM

while i can't speak for the merits of qigung, i can tell you that this man cannot "boil water with his bare hands." the aluminum foil wasn't dipped in pH neutral water. it must have been some kind of acid, most likely a common toilet cleaner, that created the chemical reaction.

if you want to discuss the merits of qigung then fine, but i think it's kinda disgraceful to hit up a forum dedicated to knowledge with the magic tricks of some quack.

Urban_Journalz 08-15-2007 06:58 PM

I practice it and it works.

A while back I started a thread or two on it and of course there were people who thought that chi didn't exist, which brings to mind the question, "Why does acupuncture work?" right?

But yeah, you'd be doing yourself a huge favor by mastering it.

DRUNKENDRAGON 08-15-2007 07:02 PM

My branch of chi kung originated in shaolin, the story that was related to me is as follows:
It began with the yi jin ching or "muscle tendon change"-this is what damo taught the monks of shaolin in order to keep them healthy enough to stay awake through their spiritual training (they routinely fell asleep during meditation, due to unhealthy lifestyles).


I study a medical chi kung of shaolin called jin gong tzu li gong under sifu Angela Yan. It is based heavily on the chinese zodiac. It includes most notably stake standing, which is the practice of adopting a specific pose for a prolonged period of time (much like stance training of most martial arts), breathing techniques incorporated with simple repetitive movements and mental visualization/ meditation, and what is known as "keigel" exercizes in the western world. The techniques are to be practiced on a cyclical timeline in accordance to the chinese zodiac (certain methods are trained in september, certain ones for october, etc. these are further broken down into smaller weekly subdivisions as well).

I highly reccomend that you do NOT practice any type of chi kung from a book, you could do more harm than good to yourself.

blackwisdom 08-15-2007 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAVAMOUTH (Post 875214)
My branch of chi kung originated in shaolin, the story that was related to me is as follows:
It began with the yi jin ching or "muscle tendon change"-this is what damo taught the monks of shaolin in order to keep them healthy enough to stay awake through their spiritual training (they routinely fell asleep during meditation, due to unhealthy lifestyles).


I study a medical chi kung of shaolin called jin gong tzu li gong under sifu Angela Yan. It is based heavily on the chinese zodiac. It includes most notably stake standing, which is the practice of adopting a specific pose for a prolonged period of time (much like stance training of most martial arts), breathing techniques incorporated with simple repetitive movements and mental visualization/ meditation, and what is known as "keigel" exercizes in the western world. The techniques are to be practiced on a cyclical timeline in accordance to the chinese zodiac (certain methods are trained in september, certain ones for october, etc. these are further broken down into smaller weekly subdivisions as well).

I highly reccomend that you do NOT practice any type of chi kung from a book, you could do more harm than good to yourself.

They have books at the bookstore on it, but some people hold class on that and other meditative/spiritual practices. I haven't even read my I Ching book all the way through yet. I'd rather humble myself at a Master's feet anyday. Thanks for the advice.

Humanface Huggah, I posted that video cause it looked interesting. That's all.

SubtleEnergies 08-16-2007 02:26 AM

I wanted to practice it. My teacher is well known for Chi Kung (Sun Dafa).

However, after reading a lot and talking to senior students who train with him I came to the conclusion alot of it is bullshit, or simply skills trained mundanely.

Now, that is a sweeping statement...and I don't mean to say there is no merit in chi kung.

Breathing can affect a persons state...calm you, energise you etc. Visualisation meditations also may do this.

However, the Chinese love to exaggerate especially when it is about anything Chinese. It may be good for relaxing, maybe to focus and get your energy up...but you won't fly...or have iron body or be able to lift people up with one finger.

Now, iron body is a form of hard chi kung...but there is nothing "mystical" in it. Anyone with iron body has actually trained the body for it (it may involve breathing and visualisation, but these alone won't do it). And I have seen people in my class do techniques often attributed to chi and explain the training for them.

In all cases the training is HARD and GRADUAL. It isn't from some mystical energy.

Like I said though...the stuff can work...but be careful coz there is SO much bs out there. And don't expect breathing and meditation to make you physcially strong....it can help in coordination with exercises....but it makes sense that they alone won't do it.

A guy from my class said to me stand in a dark room, relaxed, and try to clear your head of all thought. Even ten minutes of this a day is hard to do. He said unless a person can do that they won't get far with any real chi kung anyway. It is a good starting practice that can't harm you. And it will show you how tense we are.

But energy is energy. Runners have it, weight lifters....don't loose your logic in the bs.


And BLACK WISDOM, the I Ching is great...stare at those symbols till they make sense ;)

SubtleEnergies 08-16-2007 02:32 AM

We also have alot of holding stances....but there is a scientific reason why it is useful. The muscle change is good. It is good strentching, getting blood to flow, good for health. But there is a reason why kung fu developed. Slow breathing movements don't make you a good fighter. You get what you train for. Chi kung for health is fine, but don't be dellusional.

Also, the muscle change was brought by Tamo to Shaolin. Tamo was Indian (RZA says Dravidian), and it wouldn't surprise me at all if these practices originated in KMT, especially after seeing some of the pictures in the PRT M HERU.

blackwisdom 08-16-2007 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubtleEnergies (Post 875353)
I wanted to practice it. My teacher is well known for Chi Kung (Sun Dafa).

However, after reading a lot and talking to senior students who train with him I came to the conclusion alot of it is bullshit, or simply skills trained mundanely....

Now, iron body is a form of hard chi kung...but there is nothing "mystical" in it. Anyone with iron body has actually trained the body for it (it may involve breathing and visualisation, but these alone won't do it). And I have seen people in my class do techniques often attributed to chi and explain the training for them.

In all cases the training is HARD and GRADUAL. It isn't from some mystical energy....

And BLACK WISDOM, the I Ching is great...stare at those symbols till they make sense ;).../

Also, the muscle change was brought by Tamo to Shaolin. Tamo was Indian (RZA says Dravidian), and it wouldn't surprise me at all if these practices originated in KMT, especially after seeing some of the pictures in the PRT M HERU.

I'm training and conditioning my body with my art. It hurts and it's tiresome, but if I have to land one on someone I better be ready to talk to the police or run from the murder scene. I know where you're coming from. I'm very interested in metaphysics but the more introspective actualized type.

I'll continue to pick up my I Chung book.

I've read some papers on the development and migration of the arts from Africa to Asia. When I look at the structure of the Mystery System universities I see a close mirror in Shaolin, etc. We all know that geography influences culture, so you will see those distinct changes and variations cause art has to remain practical.

Urban_Journalz 08-16-2007 10:02 AM

Personally, the first time I learned Chi Kung was from a book. In fact I'm still learning from a book, so it all depends on who wrote the book and how well you can learn from a book.

For example, the author of my first book tells us that it's best to start off with both moving Nai Dan and regular Nai Dan Chi Kung, because this will help the muscles store Chi and get used to the feeling of Chi. Then later on, move to Wei Dan (Mental) Chi Kung because it's more advanced.

Personally, I've been able to switch back and forth from both or them because I've never found either one particualarly difficult.

So it depends on you really.

One of the books that I have on traditional Shaolin Gong-Fu teaches a few Shaolin Chi-Kung routines also and they're laid down in much greater detail that the first book that I just mentioned.

So shop around and know yourself also.

blackwisdom 08-16-2007 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 875486)
Personally, the first time I learned Chi Kung was from a book. In fact I'm still learning from a book, so it all depends on who wrote the book and how well you can learn from a book.

For example, the author of my first book tells us that it's best to start off with both moving Nai Dan and regular Nai Dan Chi Kung, because this will help the muscles store Chi and get used to the feeling of Chi. Then later on, move to Wei Dan (Mental) Chi Kung because it's more advanced.

Personally, I've been able to switch back and forth from both or them because I've never found either one particualarly difficult.

So it depends on you really.

One of the books that I have on traditional Shaolin Gong-Fu teaches a few Shaolin Chi-Kung routines also and they're laid down in much greater detail that the first book that I just mentioned.

So shop around and know yourself also.

The 1st lesson is always Know Thyself. I know people who practice it so I'll ping them and check out some books to read when I get home. Thak you for the advice.

WARPATH 08-16-2007 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackwisdom (Post 875182)

After watching this I gotta begin attending the class at the book store. I saw some books there that state that this art originated in KMT with complimentary meditations. I think I'll buy one of those books soon as well.

Any one practice Qigong or anything similar?


I know some folks that do somthing similar, but they don't attribute that knowledge with martial arts.

Perhaps it's like you siad,

Quote:

We all know that geography influences culture, so you will see those distinct changes and variations cause art has to remain practical.


Or maybe it's somthing else...

Urban_Journalz 08-16-2007 01:20 PM

My apologies, I mixed up mental and physical up there.

Wai Dan is the physical and Nei Dan is the mental. Just for clarification purposes for those who don't know and would be misled.

Urban_Journalz 08-16-2007 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackwisdom (Post 875502)
The 1st lesson is always Know Thyself. I know people who practice it so I'll ping them and check out some books to read when I get home. Thak you for the advice.

Np at all.

In fact, I recommend a book called "Chi Gung: Chinese Healing, Energy and Natural Magick" by L.V. Carnie.

Excellent place to start.

blackwisdom 08-16-2007 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 875652)
Np at all.

In fact, I recommend a book called "Chi Gung: Chinese Healing, Energy and Natural Magick" by L.V. Carnie.

Excellent place to start.

Thanks:i

SubtleEnergies 08-17-2007 03:18 AM

Hey, Black, if you ever wanna build on the I Ching hit me up.

Yeah...we condition by for example hitting our forearms against another persons and building up. No joke some of the guys I train with could pretty much take a baseball bat on the arms. Xin Yi was also meant to take on weapons so I guess that's why it is so empashised. We also do chest, back, stomach, legs....basically every where.

With my arms...they actually rarely bruise any more unless I go EXTREMELY hard. But in the period where they did bruise I also got tired. I assume that's just the body recovering.

I never realized all the years I did karate that my arms and hands actually coulnd't handle me hitting someone as hard as I could.

I am currently a bit sceptical on alot of "Chi" stuff....not all but I find there is a huge correlation between the amount of magic powers promised by a teacher and the amount of books or stuff they want to sell.


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