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-   -   Black Muslims please explain... (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84231)

Crookshank 09-27-2009 10:17 AM

Black Muslims please explain...
 
I've read a bit about the Nation of Islam and whatnot. I still can't seem to quite understand this whole idea... that is, the Black man being "God". As Muslims, you believe in Allah, correct? He's the creator and all that.

So are you claiming that the Black man is Allah? If so, is the Black man as a whole Allah? Or is each individual Black man, in some way, Allah? I just don't understand and I really want someone of this particular faith to explain it to me so I know what you truly believe. It's much better than just reading an article about it on some random Muslim website.

Edgar Erebus 09-27-2009 11:15 AM

It's complicated, learn to count first.

As I sees it, the black man as a whole is god, although not every black man is god at the same time (thus making an interesting, partial whole). Besides, they aren't actually Muslims, they just use Arabic words to look cool.

LORD NOSE 09-27-2009 11:57 AM

first - why are you interested ?



second - how do you feel about black people and what is your idea of what god is ?



third - if Allah is not the black man, then what exactly is Allah ?


in order for me to bring an understanding to you of what you seek, i have to know where you are right now in understanding what you have already gathered

Crookshank 09-27-2009 02:29 PM

-I guess just out of curiosity.

-What do you mean how do I feel about them?
I don't think one could ever explain what God is... if God has the ability to create time, space and the universe, he's beyond anything we know.

-I'm asking you.

Urban_Journalz 09-29-2009 03:23 PM

This is the only way that this shit makes sense to me. I am Muslim. No denomination. No Sunni, No Shia, No Sufi, No 5, etc.

In The Qur'an (The Recital), we are taught that God breathed into Adam of His very Own Spirit. Therefore, we are all children of The Most High. Wether we acknowledge it or not is entirely up to us, but this does not shoot down the fact that we all come from a Higher Consciosness. Therefore, I would say that if we are created in Allah's Image, then surely, the things we see with the ancients, things that would be dubbed the stuff of fantasy, are indeed true. For God, Allah, Adonai, Jah, Elohim, The Man Upstairs, etc. is infinite. Impossibility does not enter His Realm, because Hi is the Creator of that realm.

Therefore, we are all reflections of Him and His Ability. However, we must remember, that we do not keep the planets in orbit. We do not provide the faculties of hearing, speech, sight, taste, touch and smell. Nor do we govern the cycle of seasons.

LA ILLAHA ILLA ALLAH. MUHAMMAD DUR RASULULLAH. (SAL ALLAHU ALAYHI WA SALLAM)_

zooruka 09-30-2009 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)

LA ILLAHA ILLA ALLAH. MUHAMMAD DUR RASULULLAH. (SAL ALLAHU ALAYHI WA SALLAM)_

ahahahahahahahahaha


peace be with you !

diggy 10-01-2009 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
This is the only way that this shit makes sense to me. I am Muslim. No denomination. No Sunni, No Shia, No Sufi, No 5, etc.

Ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
In The Qur'an (The Recital), we are taught that God breathed into Adam of His very Own Spirit.

Do you understand what the 'spirit' is? There is the Rouh and the Nafs. Which one are you talking about? Which one was breathed into Adam. What is the purpose of the Nafs and what is the purpose of the Rouh?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
Therefore, we are all children of The Most High.

No we are NOT the children of the most high. That is not an Islamic statement.

005.018 (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

Think about what you have said and read the above verse carefully. You still wanna claim to be a child of The Most High?





Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
Wether we acknowledge it or not is entirely up to us, but this does not shoot down the fact that we all come from a Higher Consciosness. Therefore, I would say that if we are created in Allah's Image,...

Where in the Quran does it say we were created in Allah's image? Again, that is NOT an Islamic statement.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
...then surely, the things we see with the ancients, things that would be dubbed the stuff of fantasy, are indeed true.

^^What exactly are you talking about?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
For God, Allah, Adonai, Jah, Elohim, The Man Upstairs, etc. is infinite. Impossibility does not enter His Realm, because Hi is the Creator of that realm.

You are putting together things that do not belong together. Those different names mean different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
Therefore, we are all reflections of Him and His Ability.

We are reflections of Allah? Where does this statement come from?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1700515)
However, we must remember, that we do not keep the planets in orbit. We do not provide the faculties of hearing, speech, sight, taste, touch and smell. Nor do we govern the cycle of seasons.

LA ILLAHA ILLA ALLAH. MUHAMMAD DUR RASULULLAH. (SAL ALLAHU ALAYHI WA SALLAM)_

Why must you say the highlighted statement?

Edgar Erebus 10-01-2009 02:20 PM

To put it shortly, they claim to be Muslims but they denounce - or are ignorant of - the very basics of the word given to men in Kit'ab.

Urban_Journalz 10-01-2009 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka (Post 1701732)
ahahahahahahahahaha


peace be with you !

He who laughs last, laughs best.

Urban_Journalz 10-01-2009 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMJ (Post 1701739)
Ok



Do you understand what the 'spirit' is? There is the Rouh and the Nafs. Which one are you talking about? Which one was breathed into Adam. What is the purpose of the Nafs and what is the purpose of the Rouh?




No we are NOT the children of the most high. That is not an Islamic statement.

005.018 (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

Think about what you have said and read the above verse carefully. You still wanna claim to be a child of The Most High?







Where in the Quran does it say we were created in Allah's image? Again, that is NOT an Islamic statement.




^^What exactly are you talking about?




You are putting together things that do not belong together. Those different names mean different things.



We are reflections of Allah? Where does this statement come from?




Why must you say the highlighted statement?

When I say Spirit, I say it with the definition that was given in The Qur'an.

I believe we are His Children, in the sense that we are highly favored among all of His creatures. Therefore, I see His caring for us the same way as I see a Parent caring for his or her child. The Christians say this, but as you know, they do not FEEL what they say. I identify with the Christian term, "Father God" whole-heartedly and that's where I stand on it. It's not like I'm saying we are his BEGOTTEN children. Do remember the Order of Angels that are called, "Beni Elohim", or, "Sons of God". It's the same for them. They aren't His cradle-born children, however, they serve Him and Him alone and they were obviously worthy of their rank. The real question here is, are we?

Yes, I still claim to be a child of The Most High, because the people that are being spoken of in the above-mentioned verse, are those who changed the scripture, slew prophets, etc. If you want me to say, "I'm a servant of The Most High", which is an Islamic Statement, then I would take that title as well. Just because I choose to identify with a more personal title as well, doesn't make me wrong. Instead of getting tied up with technicalities that really make no difference when it comes to matters of following The 5 Pillars, I choose to take what makes sense to me and go with it.

In The Qur'an, it doesn't state that He created us in His Image. However, in Sunnah, which one, I'll tell you later, it states that Allah said, "I decided that I should be known, so I created man."

What exactly am I talking about? I'm talking about everything that would be considered impossible for a human being to accomplish in terms of metaphysics and quantum theory. Telekinesis, defiance of gravity, etc.

Those names mean different things? Maybe in the newer, more technically-impaired world where everything is about minor detail and how a word is used according to who you talk to. Again, I don't bother with such things because I consider it useless. Since you want to talk about Islam, God judges us based on our intentions, and God knows my intention for posting that.

"We are relfections of Him and His ability." comes from me. My personal insights, experiences, meditations and reflections. That's all I need. You on the other hand....well.....

I must say the highlighted statement because that's what I was meant to say. It's part of the reason I'm here.

diggy 10-01-2009 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
When I say Spirit, I say it with the definition that was given in The Qur'an.

Could you please tell me that definition and where to find it in the Quran?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
I believe we are His Children, in the sense that we are highly favored among all of His creatures. Therefore, I see His caring for us the same way as I see a Parent caring for his or her child. The Christians say this, but as you know, they do not FEEL what they say. I identify with the Christian term, "Father God" whole-heartedly and that's where I stand on it.

Your beliefs are in contradiction of the Quran (the source of 'Islam').

Quran :112 Chapter
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: He, Allah is One.
Allah is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten;
And none is like Him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
It's not like I'm saying we are his BEGOTTEN children.

You did not say that directly, but you did say it indirectly by saying Allah is the father.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
Do remember the Order of Angels that are called, "Beni Elohim", or, "Sons of God". It's the same for them. They aren't His cradle-born children, however, they serve Him and Him alone and they were obviously worthy of their rank. The real question here is, are we?

Beni Elohim?

This is a phrase that does not come from Islamic sources and has absolutely nothing to do with islam. I do not know what you are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
Yes, I still claim to be a child of The Most High, because the people that are being spoken of in the above-mentioned verse, are those who changed the scripture, slew prophets, etc. If you want me to say, "I'm a servant of The Most High", which is an Islamic Statement, then I would take that title as well. Just because I choose to identify with a more personal title as well, doesn't make me wrong. Instead of getting tied up with technicalities that really make no difference when it comes to matters of following The 5 Pillars, I choose to take what makes sense to me and go with it.

You cut and paste beliefs together into one. This is not about a technicality. It is about truth. Words could point to truth or error. Unfortunately, you do not care that the words you use point to error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
In The Qur'an, it doesn't state that He created us in His Image. However, in Sunnah, which one, I'll tell you later, it states that Allah said, "I decided that I should be known, so I created man."

Creating man to be known is NOT equivalent to creating man in Allah's image. Again, you just cut and paste beliefs together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
What exactly am I talking about? I'm talking about everything that would be considered impossible for a human being to accomplish in terms of metaphysics and quantum theory. Telekinesis, defiance of gravity, etc.

Well, if it's impossible, what is the point in discussing it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
Those names mean different things? Maybe in the newer, more technically-impaired world where everything is about minor detail and how a word is used according to who you talk to. Again, I don't bother with such things because I consider it useless. Since you want to talk about Islam, God judges us based on our intentions, and God knows my intention for posting that.

The purpose of communication, is to relay information to others. If you do not care of the words you use which could cause others to get the wrong information, you do not care about truth, and that goes against the Quran.

033.070 O you who believe! be careful of(your duty to) Allah and speak the right word,

^^
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
I don't bother with such things because I consider it useless.

Oh. ok.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
"We are relfections of Him and His ability." comes from me. My personal insights, experiences, meditations and reflections. That's all I need. You on the other hand....well.....

Ya, don't pass off YOUR BELIEFS as Islamic when they are not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702159)
I must say the highlighted statement because that's what I was meant to say. It's part of the reason I'm here.

ok

Urban_Journalz 10-01-2009 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMJ (Post 1702239)
Could you please tell me that definition and where to find it in the Quran?




Your beliefs are in contradiction of the Quran (the source of 'Islam').

Quran :112 Chapter
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: He, Allah is One.
Allah is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten;
And none is like Him.



You did not say that directly, but you did say it indirectly by saying Allah is the father.



Beni Elohim?

This is a phrase that does not come from Islamic sources and has absolutely nothing to do with islam. I do not know what you are talking about.



You cut and paste beliefs together into one. This is not about a technicality. It is about truth. Words could point to truth or error. Unfortunately, you do not care that the words you use point to error.



Creating man to be known is NOT equivalent to creating man in Allah's image. Again, you just cut and paste beliefs together.



Well, if it's impossible, what is the point in discussing it?



The purpose of communication, is to relay information to others. If you do not care of the words you use which could cause others to get the wrong information, you do not care about truth, and that goes against the Quran.

033.070 O you who believe! be careful of(your duty to) Allah and speak the right word,

^^


Oh. ok.






Ya, don't pass off YOUR BELIEFS as Islamic when they are not.



ok

Don't try to teach me Islam. Better yet, don't try to tell me what the definition of Islam is. I know He begets not, nor is He begotten. That's why I said we're not his begotten children. A Guardian, just like a true teacher or mentor, is indeed a father figure because there is a bond of strong effection between the master and the student.

Your problem seems to be that my beliefs don't match up with yours, which is borderline reminding me of the people who believe that the longer your beard is, the stronger your faith is, etc.

The point in discussing it? It's called a forum, people post what they feel. Remember?

Creating man to be known isn't the same as creating him in His image. That's funny. Clearly you don't understand the statement and I haven't the time nor the patience to explain it.

Bottom line, if you don't like what I type, or don't agree with what I do, don't read it and ignore me. It'll save us both, or at least me, valuble time and energy that I could be using to do something a LOT more important.

Allah will judge as to the things we differ about. So wait. I too am waiting with you.

diggy 10-01-2009 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702278)
Don't try to teach me Islam. Better yet, don't try to tell me what the definition of Islam is.

Was I teaching you islam and telling you it's definition, or was I clearifying the untruths you were stating as if they came from the Quran?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702278)
I know He begets not, nor is He begotten. That's why I said we're not his begotten children. A Guardian, just like a true teacher or mentor, is indeed a father figure because there is a bond of strong effection between the master and the student.

And how do you know that this 'Guardian' has a bond of strong affection (not effection) toward you?




Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702278)
Your problem seems to be that my beliefs don't match up with yours, which is borderline reminding me of the people who believe that the longer your beard is, the stronger your faith is, etc.

I don't care what your beliefs are!!! I care about the fact you posted your OPINIONS as if it were Islamic teachings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702278)
Creating man to be known isn't the same as creating him in His image. That's funny. Clearly you don't understand the statement and I haven't the time nor the patience to explain it.

Your statement was not understandable cuz it was nonsensical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702278)
Bottom line, if you don't like what I type, or don't agree with what I do, don't read it and ignore me. It'll save us both, or at least me, valuble time and energy that I could be using to do something a LOT more important.

I don't need this advice.Thanks anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz (Post 1702278)
Allah will judge as to the things we differ about. So wait. I too am waiting with you.

You use that line too often whenever somebody does not agree with you.

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster 10-01-2009 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof zooruka (Post 1701732)
ahahahahahahahahaha


peace be with you !

amen

This thread is awesome.

A white guy and a Black Canadian arguing over who is the REAL Muslim?!?!?!

Wu-corp is the shit.

While I admittedly do not read the Koran, I know, deep down in my soul, perhaps by some sort of devine epiphony, that Allah truly hates both of you for being devilish swine.

Don't get me wrong, I like you guys, but, then, I'm no Allah.

Sorry to interrupt.

Please continue...

Son_of_The_Sun 10-18-2009 01:02 PM

you better support and help each other! Instead of arguing! Watch this and make conclusions my friends! It is in English
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuIOj...layer_embedded


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