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Old 09-27-2012, 09:29 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Nomad-1 View Post
I would say the extremists we see today, are the real muslims. So little criticism, toward the Hadiths, is ever acknowledged... Yet, islamic scholars will often tell you, you need them to understand the life of Muhammad and what he really felt.
To understand the culture surrounding the men of the arab campaigns, is to look into a militant, racist, oppurtunistic band of highway men.
In contrast, the so called "silent majority", aren't really muslims at all.

That said, taking pot shots at 1.5 billion people, really won't get the conversation anywhere. Rather than "who are the real muslims", why not ask, how do you think a real muslim should be? If want to get technical about it, the term "muslim" before Muhammad's time, was used to refer to those who submitted to/acknowledged one God.
Under this rational, Jews Christians Zoroastrians etc. are muslims. It is obvious, that Muhammad during the Meccan period, wanted very badly to connect the arabians to the traditions of the great monotheist religions. I don't feel historically, that's actually possible. However, if they want to build a new tradition or doctrine, minus the hate and war mongering, I certainly think that would help.
This non-sense about the infallability of Allah's apostle, has to go. Muhammad made claims that are ignorant and some about other people's that are arbitrarily malicious.
There's no getting around that in this day and age. Information is too easy to gather.
Originally Posted by Nomad-1 View Post
I said "muslim", if you want to get technical about it, used to be used to refer to those who submitted to the will of one God. The phrase "used to" suggests in the past. At present, nobody would call Pat Robertson a muslim. Words change as the cultures that use them change. Your understanding of language is poor.

I spoke nothing of a historic meaning to the term muslim. Though arab christians were using the word centuries before hand, so to the Hanif used it. I cannot be certain there aren't earlier mentions of it than that. I mentioned there being a lack of historical continuity, between Muhammadan islam and Judeo-christianity. That is the only mention of anything "historic" in my post.
As they were never connected.

How about the Qu'ran itself?
In the Qu'ran Issa(jesus) is said to have recieved the gospels. Outside of the Qu'ran, there is nothing supporting this anywhere. Further, after having the gospels revealed to him, Jesus tells of a prophet to come after him, namely, the prophet Muhammad. Unfortunately, there is no mention of this, anywhere outside of the Qu'ran. That is because it never happened. Likewise, Abraham and Ishmael outside of the Qu'ran are never mentioned visiting arabia or building the Kaaba.
This is again, because the Kaaba itself, was build by arab pagans. To house idols and for Muhammad's own tribe, to bow and prostrate, as muslims do now, to their supreme god, "Allah". This of course, was a reworking of the Mesopotamian god Enlil.
Both had 3 daughters... Something to keep in consideration, with regard to the "satanic verses".
Muhammad's ignorance is further revealed when messing up other continuities, if the Qu'ran were to be correct, we would expect to see Aaron in the new testament, not with Moses.
The seven heavens, which come from later jewish mysticism etc...

With regard to nature, neither the bible nor abiogenesis, through nucleic synthesis say that life was formed from water. Only that it was developed in water.
"Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as A FIXED ABODE"
The earth is not fixed. There are no seven firmaments and most importantly the sun does not ask for permission to rise. If you want to get into some really bat shit crazy things, let's talk about the Hadiths, the nun, the 72 years it takes to get from one heaven to another, the stone satans, the whole of what exists, being on the wing of an angel...

"Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water"

"And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say: “I shall recite to you something of his story.” Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people"

The commentary, seems to confirm the typical understanding of the Qu'ranic verse, saying that the sun, sets in a puddle of water. Also, Alexander's(Dhul-Qarnain's) empire stretched east not west. Since when does the sun set in the east? ...
More over, if it was the case, that the earth was fixed. That would mean the sun revolves around it.
I'm sorry, but that's laughable.

You mean aside from the christians and jews and their descendents being pigs and apes?
Come now, surely you're not that oblivious...

People join the global elite all the time. Perhaps if you didn't waste your time defending beduin phophets, you too... lol How adorable... Any muslim who acts out is a CIA puppet? Then how do you explain the behavior of Muhammad himself?
He enslaved, plundered, beheaded, lusted after prepubsescent girls and declared that pictures and dogs kept angels out of houses.
Let me turn the dagger 180 and ask, how do you know the man wasn't simply making a good deal of things up?

More over, muslims who misbehave and aren't part of those groups, muslims who leech off europe's welfare programs, have the lowest levels of employment and make up the highest portion of criminals in jails, are they just part of this conspiracy also?
Or are you just making excuses for a completely backward ideology?
The north atlantic slave trade smuggled 11 million africans from their homes.
The Islamic slave trade smuggled 28 million and still continues today.
The islamic conquest extended across multiple continents. I suggest you re-read your history.
Your argument here, simply amounts to "Islam is good, anyone representing it as different, just doesn't know better" circular reasoning. It's garbage.

Actually the trained them in the 80s, rich Saudis armed them with more modern weapons.
We didn't train them as the groups they are now, it's a leap to say we created these groups. It's more realistic to say, we armed and trained the afghani's and some of them just happened to be uber theocratic, fascist pieces of garbage.
They've been that way for centuries. If they weren't, there would have never been crusades. These people, behave like animals.
I have no respect what so ever, for Muhammadan islam. That's not out of fear, rather common sense.
The war on terror is a picnic, when compared to what has been done by the cult of Muhammad.

If he has redeeming qualities for you, great. Just don't take his word as infallable or as a justification to behave a certain way. That's all I ask.
My apologies for my misunderstanding. You're one of the people who needs "historic" evidence. A left-brain oriented person. Gotcha.
"Die before you die."-Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh)
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