Thread: Church Vs. God.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:11 PM   #29
cj wisty
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Originally Posted by THE W View Post
since this is all based on your own personal world view what you have to say is pretty much irrelevant in regards to God's decree for his own creation testified to in scripture.

the bible has no interest in satisfying yours, mine, or anyone elses world view. thats not the bible's intent at all. the bible testifies of God the creator's sovereign decree. you can reject the decree if you wish, but you cannot change it.

as far as jesus' death not being about the salvation of sinners, its pretty much the same as those people who say the bible does not teach the trinity solely because the word "trinity" is not in scripture(and it isnt) despite contextual references being all over the new testament. you look for literal references and totally ignore numerous contextual references.

so in mark 2:17 when jesus says "i have not come to call the rightous, but sinners, what is he calling them to? is it not salvation?

its definitely not the salvation of jesus dying on a cross. hes calling them to the kingdom of god

in matthew 11:4-6 when jesus says "...the good news is preached to the poor". what good news do you think he is refering to? is it not the sins of the world being forgiven through christs sacrifice?

why through christs sacrifice. why not just forgiven.

luke 19-10? no mention of sacrifice

matthew 24-14? what do you take the "gospel of the kingdom" to mean?

a state of pure unconditional love

mark 8:31-38
this is a good one as it speaks directly to your point. you're peter in this passage getting rebuked by jesus because what jesus is proposing and what God has decreed doesnt fit your personal world view.

he says he has to die in order to fulfill a prophecy. he doesnt say he has to die to take away peoples sins

john 3? no mention of dying to destroy sin. and hes talking about spiritual rebirth.

john 4:1-26? john 4:31-38? hell the whole book of john is crawling with quotes from jesus referencing salvation through his death. i dont see how you can miss it.

he doesnt even mention death here

luke 22:19-20...what is this new covenant? why is it in his blood? why does re predict his death in other verses?

he predicts his death because of prophecies. interestingly some manuscripts dont have given for u or poured out for you. why do u think that is? the new covenant is that the law is destroyed. thats interesting because law is based on judgement and relates to my earlier point that jesus didnt see sin in people because he didnt judge or differentiate. and so all people become equal no matter what they do because jesus has got rid of a system of good and bad (the law). not sure why its in his blood. but why does he have to die to destroy sin. could he not die in order to show people how to be free from revenge or that they dont need to fear death.

im gonna go out on a limb and say without ever reading the book that "the idiot" will also be based on someone elses personal world view and not the decree in which God's own word testifies thus making it a FALSE image of jesus.
that books a classic.

jesus had already saved people from sin. he already got rid of the notion of guilt. jesus was lawless and didnt obey the law thus guilt no longer continued.

plus you seem to be too trusting of these disciples.

do you think they never lied. are you even sure that it was jesus disciples who wrote them.

plus look at the huge difference between how jesus taught and paul taught. paul is often filled with malice .

why is the image painted by paul the correct one.

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