Thread: Church Vs. God.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:32 PM   #34
THE W
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okay, so i guess im going to have to start going through all of your exegetical errors one by one as you make more and more with every post you make.

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jesus barely followed tradition or rituals. why would he care about this ritual. how is an omnipotent god confined by a law to create a perverse law in which the innocent are punished. was jesus not already disobeying the original law before his sacrifice commenced? how was he able to do this and not sin? is forgiveness of sins not enough.
jesus didnt follow any man made rituals or traditions but he did follow the will of God which was to be the final atonement for sin on the cross. since he obeyed God he did not sin so i dont know what you're talking about there. the old covenant was established by God, not man.

read matthew 5:17


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i believe the gospels were biased and from what ive seen of jesus in the books it seemed to me as if his disciples tried to give to many old testament qualities to jesus. also theres very suspicious moments such as the disciples not recoginising the new "jesus" after he died. also science seems to suggest the miracles are erroneous
what you or i personally believe is irrelevant. proper exegesis of scriptural texts is not based on beliefs or opinions. you must substantiate what you believe from the texts. jesus tried to give too many old testament qualities to himself. again, read matthew 5:17-20. he also quoted old testament verses on numerous occasions. you're forcing a concept on the text thats not there bro. the disciples not recognizing jesus had to do with their skepticism about him rising from the dead. i dont see how that has anything to do with your point either. science says jesus never existed so whats your point?


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christians often have a way of seeing two completely different ways of life and thinking theyre the same. its astonished me how they think the same god who gave jesus to the world is the same one who turned lot's wife to a pillar of salt because she looked back or tells people to stone homosexuals. paul is a very different man. when i read his letters most of the time it made me a more depressed and angry person. it was bad for my health. maybe he doesnt directly contradict jesuss messages but they sound very different. i could show plenty of petty differences such as in Rom 14 paul says jesus is god of the dead but in luke 20:38 luke says that jesus is not god of the dead. in Rom3:24 and Rom 3:28 paul says were justified by jesus' faith and grace and in Matt 12:37 matthew says were justified by our words. (interesting that u can see the transformation from our words justifying us to jesus' sacrifice justifying us).
romans 14 and luke 20:38 speak of those who are in christ or are children of the ressurection whether alive or dead.

romans 3:24-28 and matthew 12:37 are addressing two different subjects. the romans passages mentioned are explaining what christs sacrifice was for and the matthew passage is jesus explaining that whatever is in your heart, whether good or bad, will come out. in this case, it will come out in the way you speak.

there's no conflict between jesus and pauls message whatsoever.

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jesus is obviously getting hugely upset. it pains him so much that these priests stop others from loving. if jesus had one form of moral code or judgement it would be "whatever makes a being love is good and whoever loves is good, whatever makes a being not love and whoever doesnt love is bad". but when he loves to his fullest its different because pure love is unconditional. it goes beyond good and evil. it obscures vision so that a person can no longer judge or differentiate. he loves them no matter what. have u ever seen how a mother loves her child no matter what he does even if hes pure evil. that was jesus majority of the time. its why jesus was able to dine with very bad people. jesus got frustrated at the priests. they were his demons of gravity which held people from entering the kingdom of god which is the realm of pure love.

paul doesnt actlike this nor could he understand it
jesus saying woe to the pharisees has nothing to do with them stopping others from loving. it has to do with them keeping others from recognizing jesus as the son of God and from seeing God's plan through his son to establish a new covenant. they're also trying to uphold there reputations as religious authorities, something which jesus ministry was directly opposed to. again, nothing to do with love.

and what about the verse where jesus says he wants to tear families apart and turn them against each other? what about the verse where he tells a guy to forget about burying his father telling him let the dead people bury the dead and to just follow him?

john 8:23-24 doesnt say people will die in their sins if they dont start being more loving. it says they'll die in their sins if they dont believe that he is the son of God and he and God the father are one. what does that mean? it means you can be a very nice and loving person and if you reject christ you reject the father who sent him and WILL NOT enter the kingdom of heaven.

paul understood this fully which is why such a message is all over his letters.


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jesus died on the cross in order to show them how to live, not to save them from salvation. the kingdom of god is within urself. it doesnt depend on people hanging on crosses
i guess you plan on starting your own religion because thats not what the bible teaches.

you can reject the testimony of scripture, but you cant change it or bastardize it to suit your world view.


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Matt 9:13 Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'
which is exactly why he gave his life so that those "sinners" he came to call could receive mercy from God the father by jesus taking their place in receiving punishment for their sins.

God did not decide to punish an innocent person for sins others committed, an innocent person volunteered to take God's punishment for the sins other committed.

God the father's justice and Jesus the christ's mercy displayed in one act. now THAT'S loving.
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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)
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