Thread: Church Vs. God.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:21 PM   #35
John Nash
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u keep on saying that jesus sacrifing himself was in alliance of the old Law. how can this be so. it didnt follow the custom of the Law of Moses in any way

http://judaism.about.com/od/abcsofju...fices_stop.htm

its a sin to offer sacrifices anywhere other than the temple.

yes i agree i was wrong about jesus not following the Law. i remembered that it was the pharisees laws he didnt follow not the Law of moses.

how does science say jesus never existed. the koran and other historians at the time talked about jesus. jesus was quoting from the old testament. but his disciples shouldve written his other characteristics better. their accounts are too one sided.

i think the disciples missed jesus so much that they forced themselves to believe he had risen.

Rom 14 v9 says jesus is lord of the dead. luke 20 v38 directly says that jesus is not lord of the dead. people can see that as contradictory. i don care that much because theyre just one quote and they might be coming from different standpoints. i just think jesus and paul sound like very different men.

rom 13 v9 and matt 22 v37-40 could also be said to be a contradiction. also look at 1 cor 12 v 28 and matt 23 v8.

jesus saying that families will be torn apart doesnt mean stop loving ur families. jesus loved everyone. even people who persecuted him and even the evil one. he offers no resistance. jesus tells that guy to stop burying his dad because jesus doesnt believe in human traditions. it makes no sense to jesus. after a person dies why bry them. jesus lived in a very different world.

jesus thought the pharisees stopped the connection between the people and god. what is god but love.

when jesus said to believe in him i thought he meant to believe in his doctrine. it says this in the bible

"[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.""

the doctrine is about love not belief. is believing in jesus not believing in this.

i think u and paul make a mistake. u think believing in jesus is believing in a historical figure. but i think its different. people may believe in that historical figure but from person to person they see him differently the think of him differently they react to him differently. but is the real jesus not a manifestation of perpetual striving all-encompassing love. what use is a believe in a name and historical figure. i think belief in jesus is deeper than believing a historical person existed. i believe that people who never heard of the person jesus can believe in him.

someone who is wont to love will have full belief and faith in the ever striving perpetual love which is the true jesus.

if u follow the 2 greatest commandments (love god and everybody) then u naturally believe in jesus not as name or historical figure but as a metaphysical supplement to the activity of loving.

i treat the scriptures as i treat everything, i believe some of it and i dont believe other parts of it.

god still shouldnt have sacrificed jesus. thats not true justice.

but then ive often had this thought. what if people relying on jesus for taking away their sins were not really just sickly selfish utilitarians. what if god was testing them and the true course of action is for a person to say to jesus "GET OFF THE CROSS SOMEONE AS INNOCENT AS YOU SHOULDNT BE ON IT. TAKE MY LIFE INSTEAD. I VOLUNTEER". what if god was disgusted at people for using jesus to ty and get into heaven instead of doing the right thing of getting jesus off the cross.

i dont actually believe it but what o u think of it. do u like it or hate it?

and about ur last sentence. love completely transcends and destroys justice.

also i remember u telling me that jesus does judge and u gave examples but what do u think of john 8 v15.

basicly i think u and paul make 2 big mistakes.

trying to connect jesus' death on the cross to sacrifices given in the law of moses is sloppy. the only point for you is what jesus said in the last supper about giving his blood to his disciples but theres far too many points against it. the main one being its a sin to offer sacrifices which arent in the temple. forgiveness itself should be acceptable from an omnipotent god etc.

also u turn the doctrine of love to a doctrine of belief. and not even that, the shallow doctrine of belief in historical figure.

everything comes from jesus' 2 greatest commands love god and love everyone.

belief naturally comes from this.

the kingdom of heaven comes from love not belief.
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