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Thread: A serious question for you to ponder

  1. #31
    Winter is Coming THE MASON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
    how is a religious person gonna rebel against god like he would against other men? if you're religious, you probably accept that god's will just "is what it is". nothing you can do to change it so why fight it? being oppressed by god and by men aren't the same thing.
    very few people actually fight against a so called "illuminati", matter fact, i dont think any do. so i respects, there are accepting it for what it is.

    the two are very comparable. for example both are seen to control aspects of daily life. both sets guidelines to follow, or reap consequences and so on.

    similarly, both cant truly be proven, you can show me all these meetings and sub groups or whatever, but is there really a "world power" or "illuminati" besides conspiracy nuts i havent seen viable evidence, as of yet. same with some sort of divine, celestial power.

    its almost human nature it seems to give some unexplained things definition by applying a Higher Power Theory to secure ourselves and cease individual questioning.

    rebelling against god would simply mean not believing in his existence therefore you feel no consequences. rebelling against the "powers that be" would mean extracting yourself from society.

    the question still remains of hypocrisy, how can a firm belief in god hold one person from believing in an "illuminati" type society.

  2. #32
    1% Robert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal Guillotine View Post
    The trouble with the traditional scientific method would be that the observer is left out of the observation, conspiracy theory's use this approach as well. We are inescapably part of the whole.

    Could you please explain how you would define the "traditional scientific method" and how the observer is left out of the observation.

    Thank you for your post.












  3. #33
    1% Robert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
    how is a religious person gonna rebel against god like he would against other men? if you're religious, you probably accept that god's will just "is what it is". nothing you can do to change it so why fight it? being oppressed by god and by men aren't the same thing.
    I think you've missed the point. It's not about how you can or cannot rebel against God.

    It's about how one can believe in God and follow the teachings of religion and at the same time rebel against a perceived threat from the global elite when in principle, the two things are the same.


    Are you suggesting that you reduce dissonance due to a certain trust in God and scripture, a trust that cannot be vested in mortal men?












  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post


    Are you suggesting that you reduce dissonance due to a certain trust in God and scripture, a trust that cannot be vested in mortal men?
    that is my assertion, yes.

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    1% Robert's Avatar
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    Then I must ask what is it that makes God and scripture so trustworthy?












  6. #36

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    then i have to jump off the boat. im not a religious person. i was just answering from a common sense point of view. i see where youre going with this. thier answer will always end with "faith". you cannot reason them out it.

  7. #37
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    Robert, what is your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
    then i have to jump off the boat. im not a religious person. i was just answering from a common sense point of view. i see where youre going with this. thier answer will always end with "faith". you cannot reason them out it.
    This is not necessarily true. It could be argued for example that the two concepts are markedly different and thus abiding by one and repelling the other wouldn't lead to dissonance in the first place.












  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    This is not necessarily true. It could be argued for example that the two concepts are markedly different and thus abiding by one and repelling the other wouldn't lead to dissonance in the first place.
    then you have answered your original question.

  10. #40
    1% Robert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMJ View Post
    Robert, what is your point?
    I suppose my point is to highlight that there is a price to pay for reducing dissonance.

    You can't do it without limiting yourself in some way or being morally corrupted by it.

    It is important that in all instances we acknowledge the moments where we succumb to such dissonance, question those conflicting ideas and thus further our overall understanding of them.


    Is that such a scary notion?












  11. #41
    1% Robert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
    then you have answered your original question.
    No, I just proposed that there are alternatives.












  12. #42

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    I think you can avoid the dissonance by simply saying one is good and one is bad.

    I think that these divine and earthly systems are symptoms of the human being's need to construct a sensible universe with an ultimate cause. Fucked up things on the earth are here because of (insert secret society), existence and my conduct within it is ordered and guided by (insert X God). The important thing is that the explanation has a definite willing human like agent behind it. The sensation of meaninglessness, the anarchy of events, the void of significance, are what is avoided here.

  13. #43
    1% Robert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clan Destine View Post
    I think you can avoid the dissonance by simply saying one is good and one is bad.

    I think that these divine and earthly systems are symptoms of the human being's need to construct a sensible universe with an ultimate cause. Fucked up things on the earth are here because of (insert secret society), existence and my conduct within it is ordered and guided by (insert X God). The important thing is that the explanation has a definite willing human like agent behind it. The sensation of meaninglessness, the anarchy of events, the void of significance, are what is avoided here.
    Rep when I have it.












  14. #44
    Gen Chat Bully Uncle Steezo's Avatar
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    i think its a common misconception by atheists that those who choose to believe in a creator are lacking fulfillment or meaning and therefore feel the need to believe in something greater than self.

    2ndly, the illuminati and skygod (bearded man on cloud) are mutually exclusive concepts. this is mostly due the the belief that organized religion is under the control of the illuminati.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by STYLE View Post
    i think its a common misconception by atheists that those who choose to believe in a creator are lacking fulfillment or meaning and therefore feel the need to believe in something greater than self.

    2ndly, the illuminati and skygod (bearded man on cloud) are mutually exclusive concepts. this is mostly due the the belief that organized religion is under the control of the illuminati.
    Everybody is lacking fulfillment and total meaning. We wouldn't be here otherwise. On the other hand, it is actually impossible to truly see existence as totally meaningless. We make meaning no matter what, unless we are dead, in oblivion. What is constant in us is the aversion and fear to the sparseness or impersonality of significance. The fear, not the actuality (because it is near impossible).

    And everybody does this in some way, in different degrees, from the religious, to the independently spiritual, the atheist, the humanist, the positivist, even the nihilist. Also, just because it is a symptom, it doesn't necessarily make it not true. Belief is art. Art is not true or untrue.

    Personally, however, I think an outlook that doesn't involve some consideration of psychology or deep self skepticism, or an intellectual conscience, is in poor taste (as art), no matter what label is on it.

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