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Thread: Taoism...Anyone?

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    Default What is Neiye / Nei Yeh (Neiye 內業) Inner Cultivation?

    Quote from an article entitled "Neiyeh", by Dr. Russell Kirkland, Associate Professor of Religion, University of Georgia.

    A long-overlooked text of classical times, the Neiye ("Inner Cultivation" or "Inner Development") is a text of some 1600 characters, written in rhymed prose, a form close to that of the Daode jing. It sometimes echoes that text and the Zhuangzi, but it lacks many of the concerns found in those works. Generally dated to 350-300 BCE, it is preserved in the Guanzi (ch. 49), along with two later, apparently derivative texts, Xinshu, shang and xia (ch. 36-37). The Neiye had extremely profound effects on Taoism and Chinese culture. It seems to have influenced (1) the form, and certain contents, of the Daode jing; (2) the self-cultivation beliefs and practices of many later Taoists (from the Huainanzi and Taiping jing to the 20th-century); and (3) certain fundamental concepts of traditional Chinese medicine. It may also have influenced Neo-Confucian ideals of self-cultivation, by way of Mencius' teachings on cultivating the heart/mind (xin) and building up qi (Mengzi 2A.2).

    The Neiye seems to be the earliest extant text that explains and encourages self-cultivation through daily, practiced regulation of the forces of life. Those forces include *qi ("life-energy" — the universal force that gives life to all things); and *jing ("vital essence" — one's innate reservoir of qi). (There is no trace here of the much later Chinese concept that jing referred to reproductive fluids.) Like Mencius, the Neiye suggests that the xin was originally as it should be, but now needs rectification (zheng). The xin becomes agitated by excessive activity, which leads to dissipation of one's jing, resulting in confusion, sickness, and death. To preserve one's health and vitality, one must quieten (jing) one's xin. Then one can then attract and retain qi, and other vaguely interrelated forces, such as shen ("spirit" or "spiritual consciousness"), and tao (a vague term, apparently interchangeable with shen and ch'i). (Such concepts are explained more intelligibly in passages of the Huainanzi: see Roth 1991)."
    Shazi Daoren on alt.philosophy.taoism recently took a stab at a translation of this work and posted it in five groups of chapters here (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=gr...ring=d&num=100)

    He's given me permission to reproduce his translation here in full which follows.

    Neiye
    Inner Cultivation

    zhang 1
    1 The Essence of all things
    2 Thru transformation creates life.
    3 Below, it brings to life the five grains,
    4 Above, it aligns the stars.
    5 When flowing among the heaven and earth,
    6 We call this the 'spiritual being'.
    7 When stored up in the center of the bosom,
    8 We call this the Sage.

    zhang 2
    1 Therefore, regarding 'Energy', it is:
    2 Bright! as if ascending the sky;
    3 Dark! as if entering into the abyss;
    4 Disperse! as if existing in the ocean;
    5 Present! as if existing in the self.
    6 Therefore this Energy:
    7 Cannot be stopped by force,
    8 Yet can be pacified by Virtue,
    9 Cannot be spoken by voice,
    10 Yet can be embraced by the mind.
    11 Reverently nurture it and do not let it go:
    12 This is called 'developing Virtue'
    13 When Virtue develops and wisdom emerges,
    14 The myriad things will all be attained.

    zhang 3
    1 All forms of the Heart
    2 Are naturally infused, naturally filled,
    3 Naturally generated, naturally completed.
    4 They can become lost, out of place
    5 Due to sorrow, happiness,
    6 joy, anger, desire, or profit-seeking.
    7 If you are able to cast off sorrow, happiness,
    8 joy, anger, desire and profit-seeking,
    9 Your Heart will return to its natural flow
    10 The natural emotion of the Heart
    11 Is beneficial calmness and tranquility.
    12 Do not vex it, do not disturb it
    13 And harmony will naturally develop.

    zhang 4
    1 Clear! as though right by your side.
    2 Vague! as though it will not be attained.
    3 Indescribable! as though beyond the limitless.
    4 The proof of this is not far off:
    5 Daily we make use of its inner power.
    6 The Way is what fills the body,
    7 Yet people are unable to fix it in place.
    8 It goes forth but does not return,
    9 It comes back but does not stay.
    10 Silent! none can hear its sound.
    11 Present! it exists within the heart.
    12 Obscure! we do not see its form.
    13 Manifest! it arises with us.
    14 Look at it and not see its form,
    15 Listen to it and not hear its sound.
    16 Yet there is a course to its accomplishments.
    17 We call it the Way.

    zhang 5
    1 The Way has no fixed position;
    2 In the cultivated Heart, it gracefully abides.
    3 When the heart is calm and Energy aligned
    4 The Way can thereby repose.
    5 The Way is not distant from us;
    6 When people attain it they are fruitful
    7 The Way does not leave;
    8 When people are in tune with it, they understand.
    9 Thus it is present! as if you need but ask for it.
    10 Remote! as if dissipated and is nowhere to be found.
    11 The Way's sensation:
    12 How can you be in tune with its sound?
    13 Cultivate your Heart and you will resonate in tune.
    14 The Way thereby can be attained

    zhang 6 "Dao"
    1 As for Dao,
    2 The mouth is not able to speak of it
    3 The eyes are not able to see it
    4 The ears are not able to hear it
    5 It is that which cultivates the Heart and aligns the body.
    6 When people lose it they die
    7 When they attain it they flourish.
    8 When endeavors lose it they fail;
    9 When they attain it they succeed.
    10 Thus Dao is always without root without trunk
    11 Without leaves without flowers.
    12 The myriad things are generated by it;
    13 The myriad things are completed by it.
    14 We declare it 'Dao'.

    zhang 7 "Ruling Principles"
    1 Heaven's ruling principle is to be aligned.
    2 Earth's ruling principle is to be level.
    3 Humanity's ruling principles are grace and tranquility.
    4 Spring, autumn, winter, and summer
    5 These are heaven's seasons.
    6 Mountains, hills, rivers, and valleys
    7 These are earth's features.
    8 Pleasure and anger, taking and giving
    9 These are human devices.
    10 Therefore the Sage
    11 Changes with the seasons and doesn't transform them,
    12 Yields to things and does not change them

    zhang 8 "Alignment"
    1 If able to be aligned, able to be calm,
    2 Only then can you be stable.
    3 With a stable heart within your bosom,
    4 Eyes and ears acute and clear,
    5 Four limbs firm and sure,
    6 You can thereby make a dwelling-place for Essence.
    7 As for Essence:
    8 It is the Essence of Energy.
    9 Energy's Dao is to flourish,
    10 To flourish is to think
    11 To think is to know
    12 To know is where to stop.
    13 All forms of the Heart
    14 Crossing over to knowledge lose life.

    zhang 9 "One"
    1 Those able to transform One thing are called 'Spiritual';
    2 Those able to change One affair are called 'wise'.
    3 To transform without expending Energy;
    4 To change without expending wisdom:
    5 By grasping the One only the Master is able to do this!
    6 Grasp the One; do not loose it,
    7 And you will be able to master the myriad things.
    8 The Master acts upon things,
    9 And is not acted upon by things
    10 Attain to the guiding principle of the One.

    zhang 10 "managing"
    1 Harness the Heart within your bosom
    2 Control the words issuing forth from your mouth,
    3 Manage affairs in concert with others.
    4 Then it follows, the world will be governed.
    5 "One word is attained, and the world submits"
    6 So goes the saying.

    zhang 11 "Aligning the Body"
    1 When the body is not aligned,
    2 De will not thrive.
    3 When the center is not calm
    4 The Heart will not be harnessed.
    5 Align the body, collect De.
    6 Leave to heaven benevolence and to earth justice--
    7 These will naturally thrive on their own.

    zhang 12 "Attaining the Center"
    1 The Spirit comprehends the Ultimate;
    2 Manifest! It understands the myriad things.
    3 Hold it within your bosom, do not waver.
    4 Do not let external things confuse your faculties
    5 Do not let your faculties confuse your Heart
    6 This is called 'attaining the center.'

    zhang 13 "Stabilizing Jing"
    1 The Spirit naturally abides in the body,
    2 One moment it goes forward, one moment it comes back,
    3 No one is able to think of it.
    4 Losing it results in disorder
    5 Attaining it results in order.
    6 Reverently purify its dwelling-place,
    7 And Jing will naturally arise.
    8 Jing: put aside thinking of it,
    9 Still your effort to control it.
    10 Strictly and reverently venerate it
    11 And Jing will naturally stablize.
    12 Attain it and don't let it go,
    13 Ears and eyes not overflow
    14 Heart and mind without any scheme,
    15 Align the Heart within the breast
    16 And the myriad things will attain their full measure.

    zhang 14 "The Heart within the Heart"
    1 Dao fills all under heaven.
    2 It exists everywhere that people are,
    3 But people are unable to understand this.
    4 One word explains it,
    5 Ascending to reach the sky;
    6 Descending to the limits of earth;
    7 Replete throughout the nine provinces.
    8 How can I speak or explain it?
    9 It exists in the calm Heart.
    10 When my Heart is harnessed, my faculties are ordered.
    11 When my Heart is calm, my faculties are calmed.
    12 What orders them is the Heart;
    13 What calms them is the Heart.
    14 The Heart is used to harbor the Heart
    15 At the center of the Heart is another Heart,
    16 The Heart within the Heart.
    17 For awareness precedes words.
    18 Awareness then leads to formed reality;
    19 Formed reality then leads to words.
    20 Words then lead to action;
    21 Action then leads to order,
    22 To not be ordered invariably leads to disorder.
    23 Disorder leads to death.

    zhang 15 "The Fount of Qi"
    1 When Jing is preserved, it naturally grows.
    2 Externally it will emanate.
    3 Hidden inside, it becomes a primal spring
    4 Abounding like a flood, it harmonizes and equalizes
    5 It becomes a fount of Qi.
    6 When the fount is not dried up,
    7 The four limbs are firm.
    8 When the spring is not drained,
    9 The nine apertures freely circulate [Qi]
    10 Then you are able to exhaust the universe,
    11 And cover the four seas.
    12 Within, when your mind is unconfused,
    13 Without, there will be no disasters.
    14 When your heart is whole within,
    15 Your body will be whole without,
    16 And you won't encounter natural disasters,
    17 Or receive harm from others;
    18 Call such 'Shengren'.

    zhang 16 - Inner Virtue
    1 If you are able to be aligned and tranquil,
    2 Your skin will be supple and smooth,
    3 Your ears and eyes will be acute and clear,
    4 Your muscles will flex and your bones strong,
    5 You will then be able to bear the Great Circle of heaven,
    6 And tread over the Great Square of earth;
    7 You will abase yourself with great purity,
    8 Perceiving with great clarity.
    9 Be reverently aware without wavering,
    10 And you will daily renew your Virtue,
    11 Completely comprehending the world,
    12 Drawing from the Four Directions,
    13 Reverently developing your wholeness.
    14 This is called Inner Virtue.
    15 However, should you not return to practice,
    16 This will increase your instability.

    zhang 17 - Practicing Dao
    1 To be wholly in accord with Dao,
    2 You must practice, you must focus,
    3 You must expand, you must relax,
    4 You must be firm, you must be regular.
    5 Hold fast to excellence; do not let abandon it.
    6 Chase away excess, let go of the trivial.
    7 Once you know the Ultimate
    8 You will return to Dao and De.

    zhang 18 - Manifest Qi
    1 When the whole Heart is centered,
    2 It cannot be concealed or hidden.
    3 It is apparent from your body's appearance,
    4 It is visible by your skin color.
    5 With good Qi, when you greet others,
    6 They will be kinder than brothers and sisters.
    7 With bad Qi, when you greet others,
    8 They will harm you with force and weapons.
    9 The sound of 'no-words'
    10 Is louder than the thunder of a drum.
    11 The perceptible form of the Heart's Qi
    12 Is brighter than the sun and moon,
    13 And more concerned than parents.
    14 Rewards are not sufficient to encourage the good;
    15 Punishments are not sufficient to discourage the bad.
    16 The mind attains Qi,
    17 And the world submits.
    18 The Heart and mind stabilized,
    19 And the world listens.

    zhang 19 - Concentrating Qi
    1 When you concentrate Qi like a spirit,
    2 All things will support your existence.
    3 Are you able to concentrate, able to be one with them?
    4 Are you able to be without divining or counting stalks,
    5 Yet know bad and good fortune?
    6 Are you able to stop? Are you able to be yourself?
    7 Are you able to not demand from others,
    8 Yet attain it within yourself?
    9 You think about it and think about it.
    10 And again, deeply think about it.
    11 You think about it, yet you can't fathom it.
    12 A Spiritual Being will fathom it,
    13 Not due to the Spiritual Being's power,
    14 But due to the ultimate of Jing and Qi.
    15 When your four limbs are aligned
    16 Your blood and Qi are tranquil;
    17 When your mind is one and your heart concentrated,
    18 And your ears and eyes not distracted;
    19 Even that which is most remote will be accessible.

    zhang 20 - Self-Realization
    1 Thinking and searching generate knowledge.
    2 Laziness and ease generate worry.
    3 Cruelty and arrogance generate resentment.
    4 Worry and grief generate disease.
    5 Disease then causes death.
    6 When you think about it and don't let it go,
    7 You will be internally distressed and externally weak.
    8 Don’t let little things become big plans,
    9 Else life will abandon you.
    10 Eat, but do not exceed your appetite,
    11 Think, but do not overanalyze.
    12 Temper and put these in balance,
    13 And you will attain self-realization.

    zhang 21 - Balance and Alignment
    1 As for all human life,
    2 Heaven brings forth its Jing/essence,
    3 Earth brings forth its bodily form.
    4 These join in order to make a person.
    5 When in harmony, then there is life;
    6 When not in harmony then there is no life.
    7 In examining the Dao of harmony,
    8 You cannot sense it by sight,
    9 You cannot summon it by a chance meeting.
    10 When balance and alignment fill your chest,
    11 And respiration is governed within the heart,
    12 This results in enhanced life.
    13 When fondness and resentment cause you to lose stability,
    14 Then make a determination
    15 To restrict the five desires,
    16 To remove these two misfortunes.
    17 Do not be fondly attached, do not be resentful,
    18 Let balance and alignment fill your chest.

    zhang 22 - Stabilizing Your Nature
    1 As for all human life,
    2 It must flow from balance and alignment
    3 Where we lose these,
    4 Must be by fondness, resentment, worry and anxiety.
    5 Therefore, to stop resentment there's nothing like poetry;
    6 To cast aside worry there's nothing like music;
    7 To temper music there's nothing like ritual;
    8 To keep to ritual there's nothing like reverence;
    9 To keep to reverence there's nothing like stillness.
    10 When inwardly still and outwardly reverent
    11 You are able to return to your nature
    12 Your nature will become greatly stable.

    zhang 23 - Dao of Eating
    1 As for the Dao of eating,
    2 Overeating harms the body
    3 And brings misfortune
    4 Undereating dries up the bones
    5 And congeals the blood
    6 The point between overeating and undereating:
    7 This is called harmonious completion.
    8 It is the where jing abides
    9 And where wisdom is generated.
    10 When hunger and eating lose balance,
    11 Then make a determination
    12 When full, move away from gluttony;
    13 When hungry, expand your thoughts beyond food;
    14 When old, abandon anxiety.
    15 If you don't move away from gluttony,
    16 Qi will not circulate within your extremities.
    17 If when lusting food you don’t expand your thoughts,
    18 When you eat you will not stop.
    19 If when old you don’t abandon anxiety,
    20 This will cause your alertness to be exhausted.

    zhang 24 - Recycling Qi
    1 Enlarge your Heart and release it,
    2 Expand your Qi and increase it,
    3 Your body calm and unmoving;
    4 You're able to hold to the one
    and abandon the myriad distractions.
    5 You see profit and are not tempted,
    6 You see harm and do not fear;
    7 Detached and relaxed, yet compassionate,
    8 In solitude enjoying yourself,
    9 This is called recycling Qi,
    10 Your thoughts and actions are like heaven.

    zhang 25 - Not Forcing
    1 As for all human life,
    2 It thrives within serenity.
    3 Worry results in the loss of disipline,
    4 Resentment results in the loss of equilibrium.
    5 When worried or sad, fondly attached or resentful,
    6 The Dao then is without abode.
    7 Fondness and desire: still them,
    8 Folly and confusion: correct them.
    9 Do not pull, do not push,
    10 Good fortune will naturally return,
    11 The Dao will naturally come.
    12 By this means you can rely on it.
    13 Tranquility results in attaining it,
    14 Impatience results in losing it.

    zhang 26 - Dao of Tempering Desire
    1 The ephemeral Qi within the Heart:
    2 One moment it comes, one moment it departs.
    3 So minute, it is without interior;
    4 So great, it is without exterior.
    5 Where we lose it
    6 Is due to our impatience causing harm.
    7 When the Heart maintains stillness,
    8 Dao will naturally stabilize.
    9 For people who attain Dao,
    10 It pervades their structure to the tip of their hair.
    11 At the center of their chest, nothing is lost.
    12 Temper desire with Dao
    13 And the myriad things will not trouble you.

    translation © 2005 - shazi daoren

    Notes:
    some of these phrases were very difficult.
    some of them didn't quite align with daojia,
    or at least to my understanding of it.
    it's very difficult to be unbiased in translation.

    zhang 6
    this is close to a literal translation
    Heart is xin - heart/mind

    zhang 7
    the first three lines are quite terse
    in chinese heaven-rule-align, etc.
    i followed a bit of roth's approach
    to solving this obliqueness.

    zhang 8
    this verse seems core to neiye
    and equates jing and qi as the
    object of alignment. such alignment
    focuses on calmness, centered heart,
    a specific awareness of eyes and ears,
    and posture. then jing is able to
    dwell and qi is able to flourish
    (grow, flourish, be born, etc.) this
    doesn't seem to result in emptiness
    but rather a level of thought that
    stops short of knowledge.

    zhang 9
    this is a very interesting verse.
    the first two lines don't convey
    the One theme as well as in the
    chinese, where line 1 starts 'One thing'
    and line 2 'One affair'. This focus
    on 'One' is replete in this zhang.
    The Master - junzi, is the same word
    konzi uses as the 'superior man'.
    i felt that the use of Master in 9.5
    juxtaposed against the verb 'master' in 9.7
    works very well.
    I really like the concept the master
    acts (not wei, but rather, shi) upon
    things and is not acted upon was
    an interesting concept. Although
    the 'One' concept seems quite daoist,
    the use of junzi and some of the
    act on things don't be acted upon
    may be a bit confucian.

    zhang 10
    harness, control, manage, govern
    are all the same word in chinese.
    yet the idea conveys better as
    multiple words appropriate to the
    object of each line.
    The last two lines are a bit
    enigmatic, and i've translated it
    as close to the text as i could.
    it's a powerful statement, perhaps
    a bit of hyperbole, but yet the
    idea of attaining dao in later
    daojiao does empower the Master.

    zhang 11
    the Roth translation seems to ignore
    line 6 which is 'tian ren di yi'
    'heaven benevolence earth justice/righteousness'

    roth has:
    5 Align your body, assist the inner power,
    6 Then it will gradually come on its own.

    true, benevolence and righteousness
    are distinctly confucian thoughts, yet
    it makes more sense to contrast these
    with the last line having a form of
    'ziran' but not exactly 'self so'.

    zhang 12
    This is where the 'spirit' begins to take
    some central importance in the neiye.
    i spent two days thinking about one word
    here - guan - "Government", translated in
    line 4 and 5 as 'faculties'. roth translates it
    'senses', which isn't quite it, as i see it,
    it would be the government or constitution
    of the body, your general health/faculties.

    zhang 13
    i left more words in this cut untranslated,
    especially Jing, De, and Qi, meaning:
    jing - the essence
    De - Virtue
    Qi - well, Qi, ch'i, Energy.
    but some words, spirit/shen, heart/xin
    i have translated. i'm just inconsistent
    that way - dao ke dao.

    zhang 14
    this zhang is amazing, and amazingly
    difficult to translate.
    1-7 portray the 'dao is everywhere' concept
    8-9 introduce the core teaching, that
    dao is accessible only by what's in the Heart.
    I did not translate Heart as Xin, although it
    isn't quite heart either. it's heart/mind.
    10-16 may be some of the most powerful
    words I've read in daojia regarding the
    centrality of what's in the heart/mind.
    even to the point that the writer is
    juxtaposing the conscious heart/mind
    with the unconcious heart/mind, that
    one, not sure which, controls the other.
    17-23 show a descent from awareness
    'mind'/yi through the embodiment
    of ideas into actions and order.
    i'm not sure this isn't more confucian
    than daojia. there's definitely no wuwei
    here, and sort of an exalting of order
    and action.

    zhang 15
    i can't begin to express the beauty of the language here.

    zhang 16
    most of these lines are without pronouns.
    hence, i could have said 'if i am able to...'
    it's hard to tell whether 2 3 and 4 are
    consequences of alignment and tranquility
    or additional conditions to be met for 5 thru 8.
    basically, 1-4 may set the stage for the
    four 'greats' in 5-8.
    in 4 and 6, there are references to
    'great circle' and 'great square'.
    roth puts 'of the heavens' and 'of the earth'
    in brackets, but i simplified a bit here
    in order to easily get the reference.
    i still haven't made up my mind whether
    it's better to say 'de' or 'Virtue'.
    for some reason 'Virtue' in this zhang
    feels better to me.
    in 7 there's a word 'jian', which means
    cheap or lowly, which i interpret as
    abasing or humbling oneself.
    in 12 there's a word 'qiong', which
    means exhaust or poor, roth used 'exhaust',
    but it doesn't seem to make sense in
    context. draw from is a way to exhaust
    something, which is what i used.
    and the 'four directions' is an
    idomatic expression, it actually says
    the 'four ji' as in four ridgepoles or extremes.
    we might say in archaic engllish,
    'the four corners of the earth.'
    this is all called 'inner virtue' neide.
    what a concept! inner cultivation
    results in inner virtue...
    line 15 has 'ran er' so yet...
    which together mean 'however'
    in modern chinese. i felt this
    combination made better sense,
    yet these two last lines are
    difficult at best to translate.

    zhang 17
    this starts, literally, 'all dao'
    which can also be entirely dao.
    to make sense of this in context
    there are a set of six practices
    that 'must' be one's discipline.
    hence, i came back to
    to be wholly (one with)
    in accord with dao.
    line 5 'excellence' is shan, good, good-at
    i felt excellence a better fit,
    the attribute of disciplined practice.
    to say 'hold fast to the good'
    would simply not fit.
    Ultimate is 'ji' as in taiji, wuji.
    the ridgepole.
    once you know the taiji/wuji,
    or in other words, the 'jis',
    you return to daode.
    very interesting thought.

    zhang 18
    line 1 could be entire heart exists in center.
    but it seems to make better sense
    in the light of earlier use of zhong/center,
    to focus on the centered heart.
    lines 2-8 are easy translations, quite literal.
    lines 9-10 are quite close to literal,
    line 10 first word is 'ji'
    which might mean spreading hate or sickness
    but in context, it seems better to say 'is louder than'
    i suggest that ji is just a metaphor for being
    disruptively loud. this would appear to
    be an idiomatic axiom.
    13 is a difficult translation.
    16 and 18 have 'yi' - mind, idea, intention,
    and given that 18 has both yi and xin,
    i feel comfortable translating yi as mind
    in most places here. Yi seems to be
    the rational thinking mind.
    the promises of all the world submitting
    or listening are a bit hyperbolic here.
    i think the writer is trying to get across
    that by concentrating qi and aligning
    the heart/mind, whatever an individual
    can do naturally thereafter happens,
    whereas forcing things without the
    internal de/qi is simply a waste of
    energy.

    zhang 19
    this is an amazing verse.
    i don't have much to say about
    the translation, for the most part
    it came easily and is straightforward.
    line 1 'like a spirit' is literally what it says.
    then in lines 12 and 13, guishen
    reappars 'spiritual being' - ghost spirit.
    this is the disembodied jing in chapter 1.
    in other words, no matter how much
    one thinks about something,
    you won't get it.
    having qi concentrated from jing,
    as would a spiritual being, one
    simply understands stuff.
    how does the human being do this?
    aligning the body, calming the blood
    (heart-beat) and breath, centering
    the heart and mind through some
    form of meditation (the neiye is
    not specific as to what). this
    will collect energy/qi, and align
    the person's spirit with dao, attaining de.
    in such a state, one can 'see the world'
    without leaving his/her village.

    zhang 20
    the first four lines are causal pairs
    of things resulting in something 'bad'
    notice that 'knowledge' is in the
    same class as worry, resentment, and disease.
    the four 'bads' escalate to death.
    it may be innocent enough to think and search,
    but if you think about it, it will burn you up.
    line 8 is quite funny, literally,
    'no flea makes plans', which
    also must be some sort of
    idiomatic expression. seems more
    appropriate to 'nip little things in the bud',
    like several zhang of ddj.
    lines 10 and 11 have dual negatives
    in them, and it's easier to understand
    in chinese than translate.
    the idea is to eat and think moderately,
    not as if (literally) you can't get enough.
    line 13 literally says 'you will self realize'
    it's a very powerful statement.

    zhang 21 - 7-9
    there's a theme here that i cannot quite translate
    accurately. the theme is around the harmony
    of dao, that its 'emotion' cannot be 'seen'
    and it's 'note of chinese scale' cannot be 'completed'.
    i'm sure red will see in this something about
    sound meditation, and perhaps there is a
    sense of how the harmony of dao isn't
    quite like traditional sound or music.

    the idea, however, conveys to me that there
    is a futility in trying to see dao with one's eye's
    or hear it with one's ears.
    there is a translation of the chinese note
    as a summons, summon it by a chance meeting
    is an accurate translation. it also is similar
    to some phrases in sunzi bingfa around summoning
    information. in the end, i like where this landed.

    fondness and resentment are also joy and anger
    and were translated such in a previous zhang.
    however, the joy here is really a fondness,
    an attachment to people and things, not
    the ecstasy found in meditation or 'true
    happiness' whatever that may be.

    given that fondness has its opposite in
    resentment, and this anger is truly the
    type directed toward others, then fondness
    and resentment seem to translate better.

    14 - make a determination - is actually
    'make a plan', or lay it out on paper in
    form of a diagram. i could argue that
    daojia seems to be against making plans,
    but in fact there are several zhang
    in ddj around planning things when
    they're small. so, instead of an elaborate
    plan, which this isn't really talking about,
    it's more about commitment.
    a determination to do the type of
    inner cultivation that rectifies the
    dificiencies of one's training.

    zhang 22 isn't hard to translate, i just
    have a hard time with the premise
    that one can use music and ritual
    as a means of attaining stability.
    that's a personal matter -- not that
    i don't participate in ritual or music,
    but rather whether such are consistent
    with daojia. it really doesn't matter,
    because in the context of these
    writings, daojia and rujia are not
    in conflict within neiye.

    zhang 23 clearly is about balanced
    diet between over- and undereating.
    the problem lies in line 4, where the
    words at the beginning, da she, is
    really mean 'great absorbtion'.
    all i can say is that it must be
    idiomatic for undereating or great
    fasting of some sort. the context
    all clearly points to a mean between
    overfilling and something else.
    in line 15, the phrase begins with
    'abalone', implying that when one
    is in the presence of a food delicacy,
    one has to be able to move away
    from a type of sick envy. literally:
    abalone - as a rule/result - sick envy - move.
    in other words, don't let the lust for
    fine food absorb you into a sick envy;
    move away from it! All that is just
    easier said move away from gluttony.
    the last two lines might be better said,
    but the translation here is pretty much
    as written - this will cause (ci jiang).

    zhang 24 is nearly a perfect
    description of the result of neiye.
    what is neiye? in my opinion,
    any type of meditation where the
    body maintains a relaxed alignment,
    the chest expanded to allow for
    deep breathing, an awareness yet
    ability to detach from distraction.
    to do this, one balances eating
    sleeping, and the sense desires;
    drawing upon Jing to cultivate
    Qi, and Dao to cultivate De.
    When you do this, when you're
    with others you can be detached
    and relaxed yet compassionate,
    and when alone you can truly
    enjoy yourself.

    zhang 25 - so can all this be
    trained? forced? hell no.
    no pulling no pushing no
    forcing at all. just let it flow
    tranquility and serenity allow
    'it' to stabilize. impatience,
    literally, causes you to lose 'it'.

    zhang 26 - ephemeral could
    also be mysterious - it's kind of
    like a dead spirit in the etymology
    very temporary, but not necessarily
    fleeting. i think 'ephemeral' captures
    the idea.
    line 6 hits impatience again.
    key thought.
    line 9 and 10 - those who 'attain',
    dao pervades everything from
    structure through hair. i could
    ask 'how can one attain something
    that is already everywhere?'.
    yet there is no exact distinction
    in neiye between dao/de/jing/qi.
    whatever 'it' is, 'it' is forever
    nameless, so these labels tend
    not to be precise in their meaning
    in the original, nor in translation.
    the last two lines are poetic
    without grammar
    "Dao of tempering desire [resuts in]
    10K things no trouble"

  2. #62

  3. #63

  4. #64

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    bump

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by pro.Graveface View Post
    the i - TJING is book of changes , my pops is deep with it, he throws 3coinz and al ,allwayz funny when i interupt itslike he in mad calculating mood, haha, yo ima try to get that tao-te-tjing
    there more than utilizing the the coins

    theirs also

    the yarrow stalk oracle


    1. Hold 50 yarrow stalks in your left hand.

    2. put one aside on the table in front of you; its plays no further part in the divination. this stalk symbolizes the commencement of Tai Chi (ultimate beginning") from the void; it represents the state before Heaven & Earth were differentiated.

    3. divide them into 2, symbolizing the two primary forces.divide the remaining 49 stalks into two bundles at random, one in each hand. these bundles symbolize Heaven & Earth. The left bundle represents Heaven, the right represents Earth.

    4. Suspend one, symbolizing the 3 supreme powers. take one stalk from the right-hand bundle and put it between the ring finger and the little finger of your left hand. this stalk symbolizes humanity. heaven, earth, and humanity are considered the three supremes powers in the universe.

    5. manipulate by 4, symbolizing 4 seasons. take 4 stalks at a time from your left-hand bundle and put them aside until there are 4 or fewer stalks remaining in your hand. these 4-stalk bundles symbolize 4 seasons.

    6. return the remainders, symbolizing the intercalary month. Place the remaining stalks between the ring finger and the middle finger of your keft hand. this act symbolizes the intercalary month.

    7.in 5 years there is another intercalation. take 4 stalks at a time from your right hand bundle and put them aside until there are 4 or fewer stalks remainingin your hand. place the remaining stalks between the middle finger and the index finger of your left hand. collect all the stalks between the fingers of your left hand. the sum should be either 5 or 9, Set these stalks aside.

    Now, after the 4 operations (putting one stalk aside, dividing the remainig=ng stalks into two, removing 4 stalks at a time, and placing the remainders between fingers), the first process of change is completed. it takes 3 processes of change to get a yao or line, therefore the process will be repeated 2 more times, as below.


    8. afterward the process is repeated.. Leaving the result of the result of the 1st process aside (either 5 or 9 stalks) repeat the four operations above with the remaining 40 or 44 stalks. this time the sum of the stalks remaining between the left fingers will be either 4 or 8. set these aside. now the second process of change is completed.


    repeat the 4 operations a third time, using the remaining stalks agian, either 32, 36, or 40. after the final four operations, the sum of the remainder will again be either 4 or 8. set these stalks aside.

    either 24, 28, 32 ,or 36 stalks will remain. hold these in your hand and take away 4 at a time, counting how many groups of 4 there are----either 6, 7, 8, or 9.

    6 & 8, even numbers, indicate yin yao, seven and nine, odd numbers, indicate yang yao. in the system of the I Ching six is the symbol of greater yin, 8 lesser yin, nine is a symbol of greater yang; 7---lesser yang.

  6. #66

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    i think one of the reasons i became interested was due to kung fu flicks

  7. #67

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    * Yu Huang 玉皇 (Jade Emperor)
    * Sanqing 三清 (Three Pure Ones)
    * Fu Xi / Fu Hsi 伏羲
    * Huangdi 黄帝 (Yellow Emperor)
    * Baxian / Pa-hsien 八仙 (Eight Immortals)
    * Guan Yu 关羽
    * Xiwangmu 西王母 (Queen Mother of the West)
    * Chang'e 嫦娥 (Goddess of the Moon)

  8. #68
    BuddaHazeMysteryDeepSpace pro.Graveface's Avatar
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    yo can i write "Tao, regonizing the Infinite Universe in the symbol of the Ying and the Yang, + and - , constantly in motion, love in creation by the merging of thiese, driven by Chi the infinite energy in life force forms, driven by Spirit in elements, driven on the path to explore the Self with Love in acceptance and understanding for All, Tao" ?
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  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by pro.Graveface View Post
    yo can i write "Tao, regonizing the Infinite Universe in the symbol of the Ying and the Yang, + and - , constantly in motion, love in creation by the merging of thiese, driven by Chi the infinite energy in life force forms, driven by Spirit in elements, driven on the path to explore the Self with Love in acceptance and understanding for All, Tao" ?
    huh, what are you trying to say?

  10. #70

    Default taoism

    Dont read me and i wont read you.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by WISELYSNIPES View Post
    Dont read me and i wont read you.
    what is your purpose for stating this?

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    jus some linez that popped up in my head
    Art of Graveyardpoetry
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  13. #73
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    Thought this could explain it better than I could. Peace.

    A Comparison Between Chinese Taoism and Native American Religious Tradition
    By Gary R Varner
    Last edited: Thursday, January 28, 2010
    Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010
    An except from the forthcoming book by Gary R. Varner, "Ancient Footprints."

    There are many similarities between Chinese and Native
    American spiritual belief and philosophy. While there is no
    conclusive evidence available that can tie the two together we
    can at least explore the possibility. It is important to understand
    that there is not one “Indian” philosophy or belief. But many
    tribes had similar traditions expressed in different ways. In this
    comparison I will employ a simplification of these beliefs.
    Taoism, the Chinese philosophy of perfect peace and the
    man-nature harmony, is very similar to various Native American
    traditions. Did a transfer of ideas result from early cross cultural
    contact or did these traditions and beliefs originate
    independently?

    The concept of humankind co-existing with Nature and
    thereby with the divine is an age old one and one shared
    universally among indigenous peoples. But this concept was
    never illustrated so simply and graphically until the Taoist and
    Native American philosophy came into being.
    Both philosophies have the same message: the binding unity
    of humankind with the Earth.

    Man is only able to survive with the Earth’s cooperation. The
    Earth provides humankind with food, shelter and a meaningful
    education about life. But the Earth must be cared for as well. It
    is a give and take relationship.

    To many, at first glance, Taoism seems contradictory. It is a
    philosophy of opposites that Western man has difficulty in
    grasping. However, it is only ambiguous in its simplicity.
    The Tao states:

    “That which shrinks
    Must first expand.
    That which fails
    Must first be strong.
    That which is cast down
    Must first be raised.
    Before receiving
    There must be giving.
    Ancient Footprints

    “This is called perception of the nature of things. Soft and
    weak overcome hard and strong.”

    Hyemeyohst Storm, a modern Plains Indian, wrote of
    perceiving:

    “All the things of the universe wheel have spirit and life,
    including the rivers, rooks, earth, sky, plants and animals. But it
    is only man, of all the Beings of the Wheel, who is a determiner,
    our determining spirit can be made whole only through the
    learning of our harmony with all our brothers and sisters, and
    with all the other spirits of the Universe. To do this we must
    learn to seek and perceive. We must do this to find our place
    within the medicine wheel.”

    The concept of universality is a central theme in Taoist and
    Native American thought. The Ying Yang principle of opposites
    making up the whole is really just a cause and effect
    relationship. Ying Yang is only a way of saying transformation.
    The Chinese have a saying of “Ten thousand things—there is an
    infinity of all created things. Dark to light, hate to love, rain to
    give food.”

    Ying Yang is comparable to the Indian “Cosmos” thought. All
    things are because of the existence of other things. Cosmos is
    all. Cosmos is God, time, and nature. The seasons and life cycles
    are very much a part of the cosmos. The birth, death and rebirth
    symbolized in cosmos is almost an exact re-phrasing of Ying
    Yang.

    Circular symbols are also important to both traditions. The
    Sioux saying “The year is a circle around the earth” and the
    Plains concept of “Universal Wheel” are similar to the Chinese
    Ying Yang.

    Similar are the ideas concerning the creator and heaven. In
    Tao God is a universal, ruling power, a power personified only
    through the wind and the mountains and in nature itself. A
    similar concept among Native Americans.

    Ceremony is also very important. In Tao the only way o the
    Universal Good, called Li, is through ritual and ceremony. If the
    ceremony is done with sincerity then everything goes as it
    should. Among Native Americans ritual and ceremony is also
    very important. Everything with consequence was accomplished
    through ceremony such as puberty, naming children, birth, death
    and curing. In both Native American and Taoism ceremony was
    done for the honor of an individual or group or, more
    importantly, to honor and placate the spirits.

    To carry this concept further we realize in Tao that ceremony
    is what separates humankind from animal kind. Ceremony is the
    total essence of humanity. One must master it, and thereby Li,
    to become totally human. The lack of ceremony equates one to a
    subhuman level. Ceremony is a show of faith to both traditions.
    Natural harmony is also a connection between Taoism and
    Native Americans. Harmony with nature is to exist to the fullest.
    The Indian could only survive by cooperating with the Mother
    Earth.

    Harmony to Taoists is given the following description:
    1. Heart is with learning
    2. Feet planted firmly on the ground (symbolizing stability)
    3. No longer suffering from perplexity (symbolizing serenity)
    4. Know the bidding of heaven (symbolizing renewed
    perception)
    5. Hear with a docile ear, and
    6. Follow the dictates of the heart.

    Through all of these, Tao asserts, the individual has achieved
    harmony with rightness. The Indian would put it more simply: to
    see, to understand natures interaction with man and to give back
    to the Mother Earth what one has taken from it. Harmony is
    simply a loving respect for all things.

    In respect to the Divine there is a slight difference between
    Taoist and Native American thought. In Tao “gods,” per se, do
    not exist. Tao, the “thought,” is itself the creating force and the
    universe exists because of the associated Ying Yang actionreaction
    principle. Man is part of that creation, and the Tao
    assets, there is no “god” but for a universal consciousness. In
    contrast, most Native American traditions have conceived of a
    Creator. The following Pima poem illustrated this general godhead
    thought:

    “I have made the Sun!
    I have made the Sun!
    Hurling it high
    In the four directions
    To the East I threw it
    To run its appointed course”

    The Aztec verse:

    “The flowering tree stands in Tamoanchan:
    There we were created, there he gave us being
    There we wove the strands of our life,
    He who gives life to everything”

    To Native American’s the concept of “God” is a spirit that may
    be found in any form, a spirit that resides everywhere. The Spirit
    is, in this beautiful concept, everything from a rock to a soaring
    eagle. In the Native American world all things have a direct
    linkage to the “Spirit.” The eagle, for example, was a great omen
    and deservedly so with its power and beauty.

    Tradition itself is held in esteem by both Taoists and Native
    Americans. Tradition is the order of things. It is an established ,
    working way. In Tao, order is a longing for innocence which is
    continually being sought. It allows no excess which would disrupt
    its order.

    Tradition is similar to harmony. The Tao would say “Knowing
    harmony is constancy. Knowing constancy is enlightenment.” 41
    To the Native American tradition is life. There is no greater
    teacher than the ways and laws handed down from generation to
    generation. The Indian has found that to break or lose traditional
    ways and skills is to lose their unity, their livelihood and their
    honor among each other.

    Tradition follows harmony and the Taoist Li results from both.
    They are one together with knowledge. The Tao states:
    “The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It
    cannot be ruled by interfering.”

    This is truly a Native American concept as well. Cooperation
    is an instinctive feature of Native American life.
    Alfonso Ortiz, a doctorate in anthropology, stated before a
    Native American symposium on “American Indian Philosophy”,
    his observations on the Indian belief of non-interference with the
    Earth:

    “…I have never ceased to be impressed by…how difficult it is
    to find a [Navajo] Hogan, how they are set off nicely in a little
    pocket and blend right in with the landscape. Again, the
    magnificent knowledge…”

    Lao Tzu, a contemporary of Confucius and keeper of the
    imperial Chinese archives in the sixth century, had a very simple
    way of telling man that “progress” was destructive to order and
    harmony. In the Tao, Lao Tzu said: “the further one goes, the
    less one knows. Turning back is how the way moves.”

    Taoism can be classified as “the way of the Universe…the
    ordering principle behind all life.” To this the Native American
    concept of cosmos is again comparable. To the Native American
    the workings of the universe, nature, and humankind were all in
    order and nothing could be justified that would upset this
    delicate balance.

    To most Native American’s every individual is his own
    conscience and does what he/she believes is best. Individual
    age was unimportant as everyone was believed capable of
    rational thought. Parents never refused a reasonable request of
    their children. Children were separate and equal to their parents
    and other adults as long as they could demonstrate sound
    reasoning. The Taoist saying “Who knows what is good or bad?”
    applies here. No one can determine for another if their actions
    are right or wrong as that determination belongs to the
    individual.

    The dominating theme of Native American religions is “at
    oneness.” To know yourself, to know the Earth and the Earth’s
    life-forms, to know that the cosmos was created for all life
    equally. This is true in Taoism as well.

    The philosophy of Taoism has been defined as the
    “acceptance (of) what is in front of you without wanting the
    situation to be other than it is. Study the natural order of things
    and work with it rather than against it, for to try to change what
    is only sets up resistence. Nature provides everything without
    requiring payment or thanks, and also provides all without
    discrimination—therefore let us present the same face to
    everyone…we will come to appreciate the original meaning of the
    word ‘understand’, which means to ‘stand under’. Te—which may
    be translated as ‘virtue’ or ‘strength’—lies always in Tao—or
    ‘natural law.’”

    To most traditional Native Americans the usage of spoken
    language is a serious thing. Each word spoken reduces the power
    in the speaker because words hold great power in themselves
    and are taken as literal truths.

    Throughout the Tao Te-Ching we find evidence of similar
    concepts:

    “He who boasts achieves nothing.
    He who brags will not endure.”
    “A good speaker makes no slips.”
    “In speech, be true.”
    “More words count less.”
    “Great eloquence seems awkward. Stillness and tranquility
    set things in order.”

    To know the importance of the simple things we take for
    granted is an important concept in both Taoist and Native
    American thought. To live and abuse nature or man was rarely
    heard of in Native American society. In effect, the Native
    American is perhaps a more perfect practitioner of
    Taoism than most Chinese.

    The similarity of Native American and Taoist thought can be
    illustrated in the following quotes:


    “Interference has gradually caused Nature to turn her face.
    When the sun rises and sets blood red, the people know that
    Nature is out of balance.” (Hopi)

    “The world is ruled by letting things take their course, it
    cannot be ruled by interfering.” (Tao Te Ching)

    “Through our ceremonies, it is possible to keep the natural
    forces together.” (Hopi)

    “Ceremony is all that is human. It is harmony with nature.”
    (Tao Te-Ching)

  14. #74

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    good comparison

    i remembering reading some years ago the comparison on Sufism and Taoism

  15. #75
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    this a great thread indeed, Peace! keep it comin,
    ICHI
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