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Thread: A Study Of Reports Of Audible Voices At High Doses Of Psychedelic Mushrooms

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    Default A Study Of Reports Of Audible Voices At High Doses Of Psychedelic Mushrooms

    this right here is an interesting ass article

    they did an experiment to basically see what ppl and researchers were talkignabout twhen they said they heard voices when they were tripping and got "information" from these voices...

    keep an open mind and peep game

    (edited for length)

    ************************************************** **********

    Listening for the Logos:
    a study of reports of audible voices at high doses of psilocybin


    Horace Beach, Ph.D.
    Psychological Assistant
    Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
    Department of Psychiatry
    Chemical Dependency Recovery Program
    Vallejo, California
    E-mail: Horace.Beach@ncal.kaiperm.org

    For an updated list of psilocybin studies, click here

    There are reports that psilocybin mushrooms can engender a dialogue between the one who ingests them and a voice of unknown origin. The objective of the present study was to search for such reports, to look for differences between those who reported having heard a voice with psilocybin use and those who had not, and to characterize the voice. An anonymous questionnaire was distributed among the members of several organizations resulting in a sample of 128 participants. The phenomenon of a perceived voice during psilocybin mushroom use was reported in better than a third of participants.

    Overall, the results of this study suggest that what made the difference between hearing a voice or not with psilocybin was more about what people did, than who they were. Can it be said that there are boundaries to the human psyche? Psilocybin voice experiences force us to confront our notions of a personal self and a universal Self.

    For a copy of this thesis contact:
    UMI Dissertation Services
    300 North Zeeb Road
    P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1346
    tel: (313) 761-4700

    There are a number of verbal and literary reports that psilocybin (or "psilocybian") mushrooms speak to human beings - that is, they can engender or catalyze an auditory dialogue between the one who ingests them and a voice of unknown origin. T. McKenna terms this "interiorized linguistic phenomenon" an experience of the Logos. The Logos is to be understood as a sort of intermediary between what one might consider to be God, the Truth, or the "Suchness" of reality, and human beings. While it is possible to experience directly the Absolute, or noumenon of phenomena, or the Nondual, much of recorded historic experience of what has come to be known as divine inspiration or revelation comes through one of the various manifestations or intermediaries of the Absolute in the form of gods, spirits, angels, or ancestors. The daimon of Socrates is a good case in point; for example, Angeles states that in Plato's Symposium "the daimon communicates to the gods the prayers of humans and reveals to humans the commands of the gods." At times these intermediaries of the Absolute appear to humans, but they also reportedly can be experienced as disembodied voices.

    The Other

    While it can be argued that the voice, or voices, may ultimately be "some previously hidden and suddenly autonomous part[s] of one's own psyche" (T. McKenna, 1991b), such discussion can lead one into the philosophical abyss of what is ultimately meant by "one's own psyche" and the concept of self and other. Nonetheless, the voices many times present themselves as quite alien.


    Voices

    T. McKenna conducted a survey that was highly influential in the development of this study, in that its results suggested that the audible voice phenomenon was dosage-related.
    He has also stated that for some individuals, as much as 9.5 grams of dried mushrooms are required to elicit a voice, and also that other conditions and techniques may be necessary to hear a voice. Though there are a number of different types of voice experiences, the common thread running through them all is the imparting of information to the listener. This is the crucial importance of voices. In traditional usage, the mushroom voices give healing information. While there are many reports of experiences with psilocybin that do not include the phenomenon of voices, it should be noted that "the Indians recognize that it is not to everyone that they speak" (Munn, 1976). Perhaps they do not speak to one for a number of reasons: poor mental set, the lack of a technique to elicit a voice, poor environmental setting, old or improperly stored mushroom material weakening the psychoactive effects, insufficient dosage, psilocybin mushrooms versus synthetic psilocybin, poor absorption in the stomach, idiosyncratic body chemistry, mental experience, a person's sensory input style, or not enough experiences with psilocybin (use over time may deepen the experience, as with LSD in psychotherapy) (Grof, 1985, 1988).

    Differences Between the "Yes" and "No" Voice(s) Groups

    True to T. McKenna's suggestions for how to increase the possibility of voice experiences with psilocybin, the group that reported having heard a voice(s) with psilocybin use (the Yes group), on average, took the mushroom more times, took a larger amount of dried grams of mushrooms per use, and took the mushroom more often in darkness than the No group
    . In fact, the average reported dried grams of psilocybin mushrooms taken per experience for the No group is less than the average minimum amount of dried grams of psilocybin mushrooms needed to hear a voice(s), as reported by the Yes group. The Yes group also used psilocybin and then tried or intended to hear (evoke) a voice(s) more times than did the No group. Curiously, and not predicted by T. McKenna, the Yes group reported using psilocybin mushrooms grown themselves more often than the No group. One may speculate that the care and attention required by mushroom cultivation might contribute to a greater intention to hear a voice(s), thus leading to a more successful evocation. There were two findings of statistically significant differences between the Yes voice(s) and No voice(s) groups. First, the Yes group reported taking psilocybin more often while alone than the No group. This could have also been predicted by T. McKenna's suggestions of technique. By being alone, talking is eliminated as a distraction. It must be that the phenomenon of a voice(s) is subtle enough, at least initially, as to be missed due to exterior (talking, light) or interior (lack of intention) distractions. Namely, the voice(s) does not present itself to the "bemushroomed" person simply because he or she ingested a certain amount of psilocybin. Although, as many participants suspected (according to comments written on the questionnaires), larger average doses may be one of a number of factors to account for the presence or absence of the voice(s) experience. The second statistically significant difference between the groups was the finding that those in the Yes group endorsed having heard a voice(s), at least once, when using drugs other than psilocybin significantly more often than did the No group. In other words, those participants who heard voices with psilocybin also tended to hear voices while using other drugs. It is interesting to note that the descriptions of these voices were not so different from the descriptions of voices heard while using psilocybin. These results tend not to uphold the theory that psilocybin is somehow unique in its ability to catalyze or elicit voice phenomena, and yet a majority of the participants who reported hearing a voice(s) through psilocybin and other drugs or means indicated that they first heard a voice(s) with psilocybin. Perhaps for those individuals, psilocybin acted as a catalyst that opened a door to the subtle experience of the voices, which then allowed them to experience the voices by other means. Also it should be noted that, by far, the most popular answer as to which drugs other than psilocybin also catalyzed voices was LSD, followed by DMT and mescaline.

    LSD and DMT are similar to psilocybin in that they can be classified as serotonin-like-and even though mescaline can be classified as catecholamine-like, its psychedelic effects can probably be represented in terms of changes in serotonergic neurotransmission.
    Thus, the suggestive connection between drug-catalyzed voice(s) phenomena and serotonergic neurotransmission, discussed earlier in this article, appears again. Of T. McKenna's technical suggestions for eliciting a voice(s), only two were not supported: First, the admonition not to eat a full meal within the six hours before taking psilocybin (in fact, the No group, on average, did this less often). The second is his suggestion that cannabis may aid the hearing of voices. In only 17.4% of total voice(s) experiences with psilocybin (n = 34) was it reported that it was helpful to take any other drug(s) with psilocybin to hear a voice(s) - but, in agreement with T. McKenna, of the few who responded in the affirmative, cannabis was the most popular choice.

    A number of crude measurements of personality were attempted in this study. An examination was made of introverted and extraverted attitudes, remembering dreams, having lucid dreams, meditating, "Type A personalty," and "repressive coping style." However, the groups were not found to differ significantly on any of these facts. Also, a number of personal beliefs were examined: religious belief, belief in spirits, belief in precognition, belief in life after death, and personal health assessment. On none of these beliefs was this study able to show a repeatable, statistically significant, difference between the Yes and No groups. A number of possible sex differences were also examined and none were discovered. It seems that men were not experiencing significantly more male voices than women, and women were not experiencing significantly more female voices than the men.

    Overall, the results of this study suggest that what made the difference between hearing a voice or not with psilocybin was more about what people did, than who they were. Better than one third of participants' reported experiences with a voice(s) and psilocybin involved some form of evocation. That evocation was not reported to occur 100% of the time prior to hearing a voice(s) may indicate that evocation was not always necessary, or that perhaps after a participant evoked the voice(s) in some way in his/her early experiences, it was no longer always necessary to do so with later voice(s) experiences.


    Voice(s) Characteristics

    It was not reported very often that there was more than a single voice heard during an experience. Additionally, it was found that the voice experience cannot be maintained for long periods of time (average reported length of time was about 19 minutes).

    A look at those characteristics endorsed as occurring, on average, in more than 50% of reported total experiences with a voice(s) and psilocybin, may also help to describe trends that characterize the voice(s). The experience of the voice(s) is generally reported as positive, insightful, and useful. Though evidently a subtle phenomenon, the voice(s) is reported most of the time as clear-sounding and sensible. The experiences of being able to communicate with the voice(s), and gain information, were also reported to occur in over half of the episodes. These facts tend to lend credence to the theory that the voice(s) may be experiences of a Logos-like phenomenon.

    Concerning the more specific characteristic tendencies of the voice(s), those who have experienced the phenomenon describe the following features as occurring in most of their experiences: First, the voice(s) usually sounded old. This is consistent with the findings of at least one other source (Oss & Oeric, 1991). Second, the voice(s) usually sounded male. Third, the voice(s) was usually described as low-pitched (bass-like), slow paced, and of low volume. It is interesting to note that at least one other tryptamine compound has been found to alter (lower) the perceived pitch of externally-generated voices and music, DIPT, or, N,N-diisopropyltryptamine (Alexander Shulgin, personal communication, January 25, 1996). One additional point: in a little less than half of reported experiences, participants stated that the voice(s) expressed emotion; compassion, anger, love, calm, humor, fear, and sadness were most often reported.

    Other features of the voice(s)

    Emphasis of the "otherness" of the voice(s) pervades the phenomenological descriptions given by many of the participants, and is also borne out by some of the statistical data. In just under half of reported experiences, participants had the sensation that the voice(s) came from outside of their heads. A majority of participants also stated that the voice(s) was not familiar when they first heard it with psilocybin. A few participants even commented that although it was their own voice they heard, the "information" was not from them. Finally, in just under half of reported experiences, participants said that the voice spoke in first person. Interestingly, this occurrence was highly correlated with the participants receiving insight from the voice(s). It may be that the experience with an other who is an I (who witnesses, reflects, communicates, shares) facilitates insight, much as in psychotherapy (Frank, 1989). One of the most interesting findings of this study is that in over 45% of participants' total experiences with a voice(s) and psilocybin, sounds other than voices were present. Notice should be given to the words used by a number of the participants: high pitch, high tone, humming, buzzing, whirring, ringing, rustling, rushing water, howling, vibrations, whooshing, crinkling, insect-like, drumming, whirling-circular. These reports are similar to observations made by T. McKenna and D. McKenna (1993), Strassman, Qualls, Uhlenhuth, & Kellner (1994) and Weil (1980). It may very well be that, as Gordon (1993) concluded, a condition of ringing, buzzing, hissing, or humming in the ears, from any cause, can trigger auditory hallucinations of music, or even speech. For example, one participant reported that he heard voices when a motor (lawn mower) was running. An interesting side note: use of Heimia salicifolia (sinicuiche), a plant that contains the alkaloid cryogenine or vertine (Ott, 1993), has been reported to cause a ringing in the ears that then turns into orchestrated music. The many reports of the Yes voice(s) group hearing other sounds are consistent with a theory that these sounds may be involved in the hearing of a voice(s).

    It may be that the Logos (as Mind) superimposes itself on, and utilizes, the formless white-noise of internal (tinnitus, for example) or external (drumming, rattles, motors, running water, glossolalia) stimuli, to create a voice(s), and then, entering the individual's faculty of audition, speaks. Meaning (form) is superimposed on the formless.

    So what does it mean?

    My study lends credence to the theory that psilocybin inspired voices are expressions of the Logos. Beyond that, what the Logos is, well, that depends on how "Eastern" your world view is. That is, when people ask me what I think these voices may be, whether part of us or not, I have to first ask them what the mean by "us." The question of what is self and what is other then takes prominence. Is there anything that we can say is truly alien? Though in our experiences we may encounter a "Wholly Other," from an Eastern perspective (or in the ancient West, a Plato-Plotinian one) all of the Cosmos is interior to us. Can it be said that there are boundaries to the human psyche? Psilocybin voice experiences force us to confront our notions of a personal self and a universal Self.


    Acknowledgments

    This article is based upon my Clinical Psychology doctoral dissertation entitled, "Listening for the Logos: A study of reports of audible voices at high doses of psilocybin," which was produced at The California School of Professional Psychology at Alameda. I wish to acknowledge my chairperson, Fred Leavitt, Ph.D., and my committee members Norm Livson, Ph.D., and Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin, Ph.D. Special thanks to Sylvia Thyssen, Networks Coordinator for MAPS, and Rick Doblin, MAPS President, who were the first to agree to distribute my questionnaire - and to the MAPS members who participated.
    ********************************


    thoughts?

    let me add that Shamans aka Indigineous peoples "Medicine Men" use hallucinogens to come up with everything from medicine for a eprson illness to guidance with a specific cause.

    this always baffles me, supposedly a person who is sick goes to the village Shaman and the shaman and the "patient" tke the hallucinogen and trip out. and by the time they get done tryipping they find the answer/cure to the persons illness/problems.

    this is documented fact. this is how they survived for centuries. "civiliazed" ppl disregard their practices as though they are all crazy and push their pharmacuticals on us with their faultiness and side effects.

    build...
    Last edited by food for thought; 01-06-2009 at 02:40 AM.
    We do it for the people.


    "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty"


  2. #2
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    shit is madd long but i bolded the important parts u can disregard erthign else
    We do it for the people.


    "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty"


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    sleepless in basedworld ALCATRAZ's Avatar
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    sum that up for a hood nigga one time

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    lol just skim over the bold shit man ure killing me

    anyway, theyre sayin they had an experiment and they found that ppl on high doses on mushrooms and under specific "settings", a person tripping sometimes is able to hear a voice that the person can communicate with, and the voice is relying "information" to the tripper.
    We do it for the people.


    "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty"


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    sleepless in basedworld ALCATRAZ's Avatar
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    when u say people survived for centuries using this u mean they literally got high and was like "iight nigga im back and i got secrets" and that was it? nigga thats crazy scientific wizardry............

  6. #6

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    my cousin ate a whole box of shrooms on his trip to europe and he said it was a fucked up experiance, he said he wouldnt recomend it to anyone and would never do it again...he reckoned he was lost in amsterdam for hours just trippin out and after the experiance said to himself how could any country make that shit legal.... like it is in holland.


    peace

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    In my early teens, during a stressful time, I've once heard a voice speak to me, but I didn't listen to it. That was without chemical aid.

  8. #8

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    psylocibin can be used in extremely positive ways. it can change your whole perspective on the world and your relationship with your own spirituality.

    http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=16826

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    Singularity Instigator V4D3R's Avatar
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    Mush is the 3rd pillar

    ﴿﴾ lıʌǝp ǝɥʇ ƃuıǝǝs uǝɥʇ ǝsɹoʍ sı lıʌǝp ǝɥʇ ʇnoqɐ ƃuıʞuıɥʇ ﴿﴾

  10. #10

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    good topic for my first post. me and my girl ate shrooms once, the purple caps which are the strongest or so i've heard. shit had me bugging out, definately a bad trip. i couldnt look at anything, and when i did it made it horrible. i tried turning the tv on, watching something funny. but it just wasnt happening. we literally thought we were dying because it was too much. it is literally a strong dose of foood poisoning. my girl got real sick. she wasnt crying but water was pouring out of her eyes like a faucet and she was drooling. i was selling weed at the time and had mad green in the crib, so i didnt want to call an ambulance even though we were both feeling like we were going to die. my girl stopped talking and closed her eyes but water was still pouring out. it ended up taking control of me and i ended up slowly closing my eyes without any control. it made me real tired but when my eyes closed i wasnt asleep. i ended up giving up and saying to myself we were both going to die and just kept my eyes closed. what seemed like an hour later ( only 10 minutes ) my girl started screaming so i got up. i ended up coaxing her to walk outside so we could call an ambulance. when the ambulance showwed up they loaded her in and i went in the back with her bugging out. looking at the paramedics immedietly snapped me back to reality but still trippin. as i looked at the medic sitting next to her on the stretcher his face started melting off his skull. thats the only way i can explain it. a couple hours later after numerous tests my girl's effects wore off. the doctor called it the belladonna effect ( look it up ) and said it is caused when u slip out of reality from food poisoning. and it was maximized by mixing two grown substances which mixed different chemical reactions. ( weed and mushrooms. )

    my girl who didnt believe in anything before hand said she was hearing voices telling her to relax in the warmpth of the light. she said when she felt like she was sleeping, her subconcious was in this bright ass room and it was really comfortable, and a female voice was basically telling her to relax in the comfort and warmpth. and this was happening when she was still laying on my bed next to me. and she said she knew i was there but couldnt talk 2 me because she was too comfortable in the bright warm room with the female voice and she didnt want to come back and be suffering from the shrooms. i asked her what made her wake up and scream and she said that the room faded and she came back to her tripped out 'reality.'

  11. #11

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    also a funny note. i ended up breaking my stereo when we first started trippin because of t pain and his voice machine on the radio, the song seemingly never ended and was bugging me out crazy like the poltergeist.

  12. #12

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    also; i've done shrooms 1nce before this and it put me in a place which seemed like my own reality. i felt exhaulted over everyone else because i felt like the shrooms were rare and in turn put me on a plane ( not the one that flies ) above everyone. i felt invinisible. and it was the same when i smoked dust. i ended up blacking out on dust and people said i was talking about throwing the earth at the moon because it was too bright. they said i bent down and grabbed 2 handfuls of grass and tried to literally pick the earth up.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by iLLogik View Post
    good topic for my first post. me and my girl ate shrooms once, the purple caps which are the strongest or so i've heard. shit had me bugging out, definately a bad trip. i couldnt look at anything, and when i did it made it horrible. i tried turning the tv on, watching something funny. but it just wasnt happening. we literally thought we were dying because it was too much. it is literally a strong dose of foood poisoning. my girl got real sick. she wasnt crying but water was pouring out of her eyes like a faucet and she was drooling. i was selling weed at the time and had mad green in the crib, so i didnt want to call an ambulance even though we were both feeling like we were going to die. my girl stopped talking and closed her eyes but water was still pouring out. it ended up taking control of me and i ended up slowly closing my eyes without any control. it made me real tired but when my eyes closed i wasnt asleep. i ended up giving up and saying to myself we were both going to die and just kept my eyes closed. what seemed like an hour later ( only 10 minutes ) my girl started screaming so i got up. i ended up coaxing her to walk outside so we could call an ambulance. when the ambulance showwed up they loaded her in and i went in the back with her bugging out. looking at the paramedics immedietly snapped me back to reality but still trippin. as i looked at the medic sitting next to her on the stretcher his face started melting off his skull. thats the only way i can explain it. a couple hours later after numerous tests my girl's effects wore off. the doctor called it the belladonna effect ( look it up ) and said it is caused when u slip out of reality from food poisoning. and it was maximized by mixing two grown substances which mixed different chemical reactions. ( weed and mushrooms. )

    my girl who didnt believe in anything before hand said she was hearing voices telling her to relax in the warmpth of the light. she said when she felt like she was sleeping, her subconcious was in this bright ass room and it was really comfortable, and a female voice was basically telling her to relax in the comfort and warmpth. and this was happening when she was still laying on my bed next to me. and she said she knew i was there but couldnt talk 2 me because she was too comfortable in the bright warm room with the female voice and she didnt want to come back and be suffering from the shrooms. i asked her what made her wake up and scream and she said that the room faded and she came back to her tripped out 'reality.'

    great story man. i had a similar experience with the purple caps and some kind buds. i thought i was dying and wrote 3 pages of goodbyes to my family on a notepad. when i finally woke up i looked at the pad it was all some strange heiroglyphics. not scribble, but heiroglyphics. it was far out...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by iLLogik View Post
    good topic for my first post. me and my girl ate shrooms once, the purple caps which are the strongest or so i've heard. shit had me bugging out, definately a bad trip. i couldnt look at anything, and when i did it made it horrible. i tried turning the tv on, watching something funny. but it just wasnt happening. we literally thought we were dying because it was too much. it is literally a strong dose of foood poisoning. my girl got real sick. she wasnt crying but water was pouring out of her eyes like a faucet and she was drooling. i was selling weed at the time and had mad green in the crib, so i didnt want to call an ambulance even though we were both feeling like we were going to die. my girl stopped talking and closed her eyes but water was still pouring out. it ended up taking control of me and i ended up slowly closing my eyes without any control. it made me real tired but when my eyes closed i wasnt asleep. i ended up giving up and saying to myself we were both going to die and just kept my eyes closed. what seemed like an hour later ( only 10 minutes ) my girl started screaming so i got up. i ended up coaxing her to walk outside so we could call an ambulance. when the ambulance showwed up they loaded her in and i went in the back with her bugging out. looking at the paramedics immedietly snapped me back to reality but still trippin. as i looked at the medic sitting next to her on the stretcher his face started melting off his skull. thats the only way i can explain it. a couple hours later after numerous tests my girl's effects wore off. the doctor called it the belladonna effect ( look it up ) and said it is caused when u slip out of reality from food poisoning. and it was maximized by mixing two grown substances which mixed different chemical reactions. ( weed and mushrooms. )

    my girl who didnt believe in anything before hand said she was hearing voices telling her to relax in the warmpth of the light. she said when she felt like she was sleeping, her subconcious was in this bright ass room and it was really comfortable, and a female voice was basically telling her to relax in the comfort and warmpth. and this was happening when she was still laying on my bed next to me. and she said she knew i was there but couldnt talk 2 me because she was too comfortable in the bright warm room with the female voice and she didnt want to come back and be suffering from the shrooms. i asked her what made her wake up and scream and she said that the room faded and she came back to her tripped out 'reality.'
    lmao what are u doing calling the ambulance on your girl man LOL. calling the police or ambulance when your tripping is something u DONT want to do. u goot deal with all that extra shit and then they fuck you shit up in the hospital. did they pump some shit into her stomach? i heard thats what they do.

    anyways, u should have just went with the trip and let it take u where it wanted to . once u eat them shits u just gotta go with the flow. the feelings of you dying might have been your "ego" dying and being reborn. thesre is research about this also. were u fucked up is when u started trying to fight the felling/trip off. this can be like hell to a person tripping.

    the best thing to do in those situation is top change the "setting". yall should have went for a walk, or just listened to chill music.

    shrooms definately aint something to toy with. wre u guys prepared for the trip?

    spunds like the voices your girl was hearing were actually trying to and calm her down and have her submit to the trip. yall should have just relaxed and seen where the trip took you.

    u said u closed your eyes for a while, did u see crazy visuals n shit behind your eyelids?

    how much did yall eat? what color where the stems?
    We do it for the people.


    "In the abundance of water, the fool is thirsty"


  15. #15

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    can u at least post the link so we can read the whole thing?

    people you gotta keep posting links with your shit man


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