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Thread: Know Your Ledge

  1. #1
    The People's Champ Visionz's Avatar
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    Default Know Your Ledge

    First of all let me start by saying its an honor to preside over this particular section of the Corp. I've been hitting this particular spot up on the regular since I've joined the WTC and I'm glad I have a chance to restore this section to all its former glory. Its a state that a lot of our current member probably have never witnessed.


    I don't think we'll get there without some guidelines being placed that I think are long overdue.


    Any one visiting this section is going to be held to higher standards of participation than what's required elsewhere. This section is about learning and about exchanging your deepest thoughts and outlooks and I want people to feel free to do just that. Besides your participation, what else does it require.

    It requires Respect from all participating parties. It does not require to you to agree with someone but it does require that you are able to respectfully disagree. I don't want to see any more personal attacks on the people who see the world different from you.

    I don't plan on ruling with an iron hand but any post or threads that are trollish in nature are going to either end up Norwayed or edited.

    Be respectful, be open, be you.

    If you got any suggestions for how to improve the boards, feel free to post them here.

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    Veteran Member mastapowerful's Avatar
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    Respect due!!!
    "You love to love to love, and you hate to hate to hate!!"


  3. #3
    The People's Champ Visionz's Avatar
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    Default Effective Communication

    What are some keys for achieving it?

    And is it important?

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    In what context, or for what purpose? More communication is more effective, as it helps understanding each other.

    Telepathy?

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    Manifestation of Allah Mr. Muhammad's Avatar
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    The following excerpts are taken from an earlier post of mine on "Lawful Dialogue and Effective Communication":
    ================================================== =====

    Lawful dialogue is not debate; it is reasoned conversation, the subject of which are the actual facts of a thing.

    The true solution to all problems can be arrived at only through dialogue among individuals who respect themselves and one another and who willingly, freely, lawfully consider and decide issues on the merits. Decisions are based on principles and fair standards independent of personalities.

    Through the use of lawful dialogue, we are able to recognize what needs to be worked on. This affords us an opportunity to face ourselves in the mirror. Above all, the process of discovering the truth takes place within parliamentary procedures. Parliamentary procedure is being courteous and impersonal. Justice is impartial. Everyone has a responsibility to speak and a right to express his or her views.

    The process of lawful dialogue will weave the ability, if we master the process, to teach it to others, produce practical applications of our teachings and thereby create the solutions to all of our problems.

    Before fundamental change can take place, a process of unearthing fundamental assumptions through lawful dialogue must occur. For it is on that level where actual conflict or disagreement resides. In order for true understanding and agreement to be achieved then it must be achieved on a fundamental level. Fundamental assumptions are the things we hold true. They are the basis of our words, actions, perceptions, attitudes, and behaviors. They help to form our opinions and beliefs. Unearthing these assumptions in any situation gets to the core of people’s thinking and can arouse defensiveness, resentment, and general feelings of uneasiness. It requires a delicate balance of inquiry and reflection. You ask a question to gain understanding, and then reflect on the answer.

    This is a very disciplined process. It is not antagonistic, nor is it to determine a winner. It is the process that allows truth to emerge. Furthermore, it requires the dialogue participants to suspend their assumptions to allow for honest communication to take place. As the dialogue reveals more and more to the participants they are able to see truth emerging. The process has then benefited everyone because they have all identified the truth. Having a dialogue that gets at our fundamental assumptions is an exceedingly difficult process to manage, but in the case of the commission and the Nation of Islam its rewards are immeasurable.


    -from The Commissioner's Workbook, by CRRNOI



    Obstacles to Effective Communication

    Below are five major hindrances to "effective" communication. By "effective", I mean "producing an effect"; specifically, producing a "favorable" effect for all involved.

    1) Unfamiliar or Irrelevant examples -- If I use examples that you have no experience with, I might as well be speaking to you in a foreign language.

    2) Misunderstanding of words used -- If I use words that you have no definition for, or an incorrect definition for; or, if I use words incorrectly, the communication is corrupted and will be almost always misunderstood.

    3) The attitude that one "knows it all, already" -- If I think I know all about a particular subject, then I am not open to hear what anyone else has to say or offer, thereby imprisoning myself in my own mind, and isolating myself from others...if not offending them. This item invariably leads to the two that follow...

    4) Evaluation -- This is the formulation and expression of a conclusion about the "value" of another person, whether "complimentary" or "demeaning". In either case, this practice is a mistake, generally, because I (hypothetically) am not qualified to assess the value of another human being whom I DID NOT CREATE, unless I am echoing ALLAH'S evaluation of the Human Being. And even then, I have to be very, very careful. Heaping praise upon people we like, because they do or say something we approve of, personally, can sometimes be just as harmful as belittling people for saying or doing something we disapprove of.

    "Evaluations" usually begin with words like,
    "You're so...", or
    "You're just (a)...", or
    "You're such a..."



    5) Invalidation -- This is the negation or dismissal of another person's feelings, ideas, concerns, beliefs, etc. as "silly", or "stupid", or "imaginary", or "spooky", etc. Because people tend to "identify" with their ideas, feelings, beliefs, etc. so fully, they tend to interpret negation of these expressions of theirs as negation of "themselves" or of their "significance". When a person's expression is "invalidated", the response can be anything from "retreat" to "attack", which is certainly not "effective" communication in the most positive sense. In order for a person to communicate freely, he or she must know and feel that he/she is an "equal participant" in the exchange, and will receive equal consideration.

    "Invalidations" usually begin with words like:
    "That's so....", or
    "That's just (a)...", or
    "That's such a...".

  6. #6
    PUTYOMONEYWHEREYOMOUTHIZ Tecknowledgist's Avatar
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    great to see. i just hope there's enough of an intelligible crowd left here to generate thought-provoking discussion. it seems like the majority of what was keeping KTL active was trolling and pointless bickering.

  7. #7
    The Smell of The Future LORD NOSE's Avatar
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    Needed


    lets all put this to practice
    Last edited by LORD NOSE; 04-13-2009 at 04:21 PM.

  8. #8
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    The purpose of communication is to convey an idea or thought to another person.

    Some people defeat the purpose of communication by doing the following things:

    - Using terms that are most likely not to be understood to the reader
    - Not conveying ideas and thoughts clear and to the point
    - Writing 'articles'

    If people do the above things listed, then they've defeated the purpose of communication.

    If one does not or is likely not to understand certain terms, then familiar terms should be used.

    If one does not write to the point, misunderstanding could be the effect.

    If one writes long articles, most will probably not read it.

  9. #9
    The Smell of The Future LORD NOSE's Avatar
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    some people just don't belong in certain cyphers
    just like a 3 year old has no business in a circle of adults talking about sex

  10. #10
    BIG OPINION, BIGGER LOAD TSA's Avatar
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    i just dont think anyone that uses the world cyphers belongs in any discussion.

    i think the key to effect discussion is to remember the stupidity of the human race, and instead of giving a long winded speech give a bold, memorable, powerful statement or even word.

    mao did it.

    on like, wucorp and shit?
    ppl believe what they believe and its the internet so do whatever you want it won't make a difference.
    but also be brief

  11. #11
    Buddha Blessed YungSunny's Avatar
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    To me the main trait people need to have is not to just hear, but listen.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by YungSunny View Post
    To me the main trait people need to have is not to just hear, but listen.
    Very true.

    I find when people do not pay attention to what was said, misinterpretation is the result followed by negative emotions.

  13. #13
    Doin The Knowledge Kemeticly Doubs's Avatar
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    WORD UP, if u gon' drop science on an individual u have to come at them at an angle they will understang...GOOD points n GOOD breakdown(for us, the people who are knowledged on the topic n get it already(no disrespect) when "teaching" or enlightening someone jus acknowledge where their knowledge is at n hit em' at their angle where they can relate some how n help it "click" a lil' easier
    thatz jus my 2cense...Peace
    Livin The Way Were Suppose To AnyWay

  14. #14
    The Smell of The Future LORD NOSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemeticly Doubs View Post
    WORD UP, if u gon' drop science on an individual u have to come at them at an angle they will understang...GOOD points n GOOD breakdown(for us, the people who are knowledged on the topic n get it already(no disrespect) when "teaching" or enlightening someone jus acknowledge where their knowledge is at n hit em' at their angle where they can relate some how n help it "click" a lil' easier
    thatz jus my 2cense...Peace

    and if you cannot get through to that person, let the next person try

  15. #15
    Doin The Knowledge Kemeticly Doubs's Avatar
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    my man!...couldn't drop it better myself OnELuv
    Livin The Way Were Suppose To AnyWay

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