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Thread: Church Vs. God.

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post
    deuteronomy 12:30-31



    jeremiah 19:4-6



    psalm 106:37-38



    Ezekiel 16:20



    lmfao god certainly changed his mind about people sacrificing their own sons and daughters.
    since all 4 verses mentioned say God doesnt like people sacrificing children to idols i dont see what you're getting at?
    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    since all 4 verses mentioned say God doesnt like people sacrificing children to idols i dont see what you're getting at?
    31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
    i think the emphasis was on how they sacrificed offerings to their gods and not the gods themselves.

    the last sentence was emphatic especially with the added "even" which expressed gods disgust at people offering their descendants as sacrifices.


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  3. #93
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    look at judges 11 when jephthah promised god hed sacrifice the first thing he saw as a burnt offering. the first thing he saw was his daughter but he didnt kill her but she was devoted to perpetual virginity
    Last edited by cj wisty; 11-26-2012 at 05:07 PM.


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  4. #94
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    i still dont see what you're getting at.

    God doesnt want his people sacrifices children to idols.

    God doesnt want his people worshipping other gods, period.

    right.....?
    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    i still dont see what you're getting at.

    God doesnt want his people sacrifices children to idols.

    God doesnt want his people worshipping other gods, period.

    right.....?
    he expresses disgust at the thought of sacrificing children.

    31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
    why do u think the last sentence is added in. why in the last sentence is disgust displayed at sons and daughters being burnt in fires.

    why does he not talk about worshipping idols, in disgust, in the last sentence.

    also take notice of the first phrase "You must not worship the Lord your God in their way"

    so the subject is not on idols but rather on how a person should worship God. and what does God mean by "in their way". he means "detestable things the Lord hates".

    one of those detestable things is the sacrifice of children.

    therefore we can deduce that a person cannot worhsip God with human sacrifice.


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  6. #96
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    right...

    God doesnt want burning people to death to be an activity for worshipping him.

    ...?
    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    your original argument was that the trinity is illogical because 3 things cant come together to make 1. the voltron example shows you that this is perfectly logical.
    Your example is simply a false analogy. As such, you did not prove that it is logical because your 'example' is poorly suited. Can you not see that?

    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    i dont recall saying God needed anything or that God couldnt have made the heavens and the earth without jesus. are you now dictating the means for how God can do things?
    You did not explicitly say that, but it is implied if the trinity is your concept of God, which it is, and you compare this concept to Voltron.

    So who made the heavens and the earth if I may ask, and what were the roles of Jesus and the 'holy spirit' in the making of it?

    I am not dictating the means for how God can do things, but your concept of the trinity and your Voltron analogy implies it.

    This is what happens when you use a false analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    a fight for domination and a war in the heavens? this is an assumption based your own sinful alpha dog nature that has nothing to do with the attitude or relationship God the father had with christ and the holy spirit. its also not jesus or the holy spirit's attitude towards God the father. its completely based on your world view and cant be substantiated through scripture.
    Not based on my nature. Based on common sense and reasoning. If God is all powerful and you say God is one of 3, then it makes sense that each part would fight to have the highest status. One of them must be leader and put the others in check. What you would have is something like the Ancient Greek gods who plot on each other with war in the heavens and on earth. But I do not see war in the heavens and on earth. The heavens and earth seem to be in perfect order to me. This suggests ONE God not 3.
    Last edited by diggy; 11-26-2012 at 07:34 PM.

  8. #98
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    how is it a false analogy when it shows that multiple things can become one entity? there's also the example of families, teams, and different materials making one building.

    i already showed that God the father had supreme authority of the 3. jesus saying he was going back to the father because the father was greater than he was. him saying he does nothing on his own but only what he sees the father doing. him appearing to the disciples after his resurrection and saying all authority was given to him by God the father.

    their being war in the heavens is, again, an assumption that cant be substantiated by anything and is actually contradicted by scriptural account of the relationship jesus had with God the father.
    Last edited by THE W; 11-26-2012 at 09:27 PM.
    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

  9. #99
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    shame on me for overlooking this:

    luke 24:44-49

    44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
    45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    how is it a false analogy when it shows that multiple things can become one entity? there's also the example of families, teams, and different materials making one building.
    God, THE CREATOR, simply cannot be compared to Gods' CREATION. There is nothing like God, the Everliving. Nothing reproduced God and God does not reproduce.

    For you to compare The CREATOR to it's CREATION is to put God into an inferior category, a category not of greatness, but weakness and transient.


    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    i already showed that God the father had supreme authority of the 3. jesus saying he was going back to the father because the father was greater than he was. him saying he does nothing on his own but only what he sees the father doing. in the end all authority was given to him by God the father.

    their being war in the heavens is, again, an assumption that cant be substantiated by anything and is actually contradicted by scriptural account of the relationship jesus had with God the father.
    You still did not tell me the role of Jesus and the holy spirit in the creation of the heavens and earth!!!

    The war in the heavens is not an assumption; it is a logical result of having more than one God and the Ancient Greeks have an example of that war in ancient writings. The Ancient Egyptians also have an example of what would happen if there is more than one God, if you care to look outside of your Bible!! But you choose to ignore this along with logic and common sense, and take your Bible to be infallible when it is in fact a book that has had it's meanings changed too much times to count, along with statements that are nonsensical which you can't seem to acknowledge.

  11. #101
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    revalation 22:12-16

    2 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
    16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
    1 corinthians 8:5-6
    For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
    the bible doesnt tell us how the father, son, and holy spirit divided up the work of creation. though it does say in genesis 1:26 when God created man "then God said, let us make man in our image, in our likeness..."

    john 8:54-58
    Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57“You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
    58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
    why did they pick up stone to stone jesus? he was saying that he was God.

    again, you have no standing to make your warring Gods claim. you're forcing a concept that is alien to biblical testimony onto the text turning God into something he never testified to in his word.

    why would i go outside of scripture to define scripture? that would be eisegesis, which is erroneous practice in interpreting scripture.
    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    again, you have no standing to make your warring Gods claim. you're forcing a concept that is alien to biblical testimony onto the text turning God into something he never testified to in his word.

    why would i go outside of scripture to define scripture? that would be eisegesis, which is erroneous practice in interpreting scripture.

    Nope. Just trying to get you to use reason and common sense.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE W View Post
    right...

    God doesnt want burning people to death to be an activity for worshipping him.

    ...?
    and human sacrifice is a sinful offering to God.

    jesus is a human sacrifice.


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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post
    and human sacrifice is a sinful offering to God.

    jesus is a human sacrifice.
    yes, it is a sin for man to murder.

    i still dont see your point.
    The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

  15. #105
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    it is a sin for man to murder until God commands man to murder

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