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Thread: guru legacy is so much bigger than just gangstarr....

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by claaa7 View Post
    it all started with "Jazz Thing" where they featured a great saxophonist on there (once again Branford) - true PIONEERS!
    Claaa7, I meant to repsond to that other thread of yours...I am huge Gangstarr / Jazzmatazz fan, but I don't think they're the pioneers you've made them out to be when it comes to the fusion of live jazz and rap music.

    To start, I believe the song "Jazz Thing" was conceived by Branford Marsalis and/or Terry Blanchard. Point is, it wasn't that Gangstarr decided to bring in live horns on one of their tracks...it was that a jazz musician(s) decided to collaborate with a rap group. When labeling this song as the starting point for a genre, this is a great distinction.

    But even then, there was a live jazz/rap song that preceded "Jazz Thing" by half a decade. In 1985, Cargo issued a song fittingly (and not so creatively) titled "Jazz Rap".



    By the time Jazzmatazz and Buckshot LeFonque came around, there had been other live jazz/rap records; some by jazz musicians, some by rappers. Gangstarr as a collective and Guru and Primo individually certainly played a key role in advancing the genre, but my point is only to say that they did not "invent" it.
    Last edited by logitrax; 05-01-2011 at 02:43 PM.

  2. #17
    PRODIGAL SUN Taskmaster2112's Avatar
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    It was Spike Lee's idea to add the live horns to "Jazz Thing" when he hired Gang Starr for the "Mo' Better Blues" soundtrack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taskmaster2112 View Post
    It was Spike Lee's idea to add the live horns to "Jazz Thing" when he hired Gang Starr for the "Mo' Better Blues" soundtrack.
    As far as I can recall, Spike's idea was for them to expand on the lyrical content of "Jazz Music," which also wasn't a Gangstarr concept. Marsalis and Blanchard were scoring the film and I really think it was Marsalis who offered the idea of the horns. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Either way, all this did was bolster my contention that it was NOT in fact a Gangstarr invention. Moreover, that's a moot point since I've already provided a song that pre-dates "Jazz Thing" by 5 years.

    Speaking of pre-dating "Jazz Thing," one need look no further than the liner notes to Guru's own Jazzmatazz Volume 1 to recall that LL Cool J's "Going Back to Cali" features live horns. The liners also mention Herbie Hancock's "Rockit," which featured a reknowned jazz musician bringing a hip-hop element (turntablism) to his music (which crossed into several other genres anyway).

  4. #19
    Killer Bob claaa7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logitrax View Post
    Claaa7, I meant to repsond to that other thread of yours...I am huge Gangstarr / Jazzmatazz fan, but I don't think they're the pioneers you've made them out to be when it comes to the fusion of live jazz and rap music.

    To start, I believe the song "Jazz Thing" was conceived by Branford Marsalis and/or Terry Blanchard. Point is, it wasn't that Gangstarr decided to bring in live horns on one of their tracks...it was that a jazz musician(s) decided to collaborate with a rap group. When labeling this song as the starting point for a genre, this is a great distinction.

    But even then, there was a live jazz/rap song that preceded "Jazz Thing" by half a decade. In 1985, Cargo issued a song fittingly (and not so creatively) titled "Jazz Rap".



    By the time Jazzmatazz and Buckshot LeFonque came around, there had been other live jazz/rap records; some by jazz musicians, some by rappers. Gangstarr as a collective and Guru and Primo individually certainly played a key role in advancing the genre, but my point is only to say that they did not "invent" it.
    peace. i know they weren't the first guys to ever do it, even A Tribe Called Quest had Ron Carter on there at the same time as "Jazz Thang", and as you mention LL had live horns on "Going Back to Cali" back in '89 (altho unless it was a jazz player who played the horns it doesn't really matter imo). you also mention "Rockit" which was the first non hip-hop song to use scratching if i recall correctly, beautifully performed by Grandmaster D.ST. and there's a Big Daddy Kane/Kool Moe Dee/Miles Davis track from '89 but what i meant by calling them (Gang Starr) true pioneers is that, at least for me, they really brought hip-hop and live jazz together on a respectable level that was very groundbreaking and got love from both jazz players (who many times have had a disliking of hip-hop music) and hip-hop heads and sparked a movement. the shit that came before that was very different imo but great discussion man, i enjoy it!

    on a side note i really wish Miles would've lived a little longer, cuz he really loved hip hop and right before his death he recorded his last album over hip-hop beats fully produced by Easy Mo Bee. this was in 1991 - had he lived 5 years longer and stayed in relative sharp shape and good lip we might very well had heard the G.O.A.T. of jazz (imo) play over DJ Premier or Pete Rock beats. damn, what a thought. rest in peace Miles.



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  5. #20

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    the dj premier version of lifesaver is real dope

    true master's "looking thru the darkness" is enchanting


    i always fucked with the jazzmattaz stuff, i think i've only heard the first two. i gotta peep more of gurus shit

    ive been playin in memory of off moment of truth on repeat for awhile tonight and i saw this thread as i was looking for another thread angry posted (the one where he gave a nick wiz mixtape link, i need to hear more of his production) and came across this and thought the god deserved some props (guru)

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  6. #21
    PRODIGAL SUN UncontrolledSubstans's Avatar
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    True Master on the beats!

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    on a side note i really wish Miles would've lived a little longer, cuz he really loved hip hop and right before his death he recorded his last album over hip-hop beats fully produced by Easy Mo Bee. this was in 1991
    WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    title please amd link possibly?

    also, it weird this thread popped up cause i was just thinking about Guru and how prominent he really was in hip hop. and started bumping all the Gangstarr albums again. (Winter is coming around here and Hard To Earn is one of the best albums to bump).

    i also noticed that unless it was a Guru or Gangstarr album, Guru never had to many guest spots. unless im mistaken it doesnt look like many people reached out to Guru for a verse

    still one of the greatest to ever do it
    Last edited by THE MASON; 11-20-2011 at 09:32 AM.

  8. #23
    PRODIGAL SUN Taskmaster2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronze Feet View Post
    WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    title please amd link possibly?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doo-Bop

  9. #24
    aka Orion Zemo RADIOACTIVE MAN's Avatar
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    realest thread I've read in a minute

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taskmaster2112 View Post
    props

    must have this

  11. #26
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    on a related note, what the fuck happened to jazz-influenced beats? did Puffy kill it by the late 90s?

  12. #27

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    i still need to get around to gurus solo shit.....been meaning to listen to his jazzmatic shit and even all the other shit he did with solar even though fuck that snake nigga solar

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